Open mike 05/11/2019

79 comments on “Open mike 05/11/2019 ”

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1. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 1

   5 November 2019 at 7:17 am

   Ah, the delicious irony!

   Soimun employs God knows how many ‘experts’ in his office to make attack ads, with unrelenting negativity, for which he gets quite rightly slagged off.

   Jacinda fronts for a simple 2 minute (nearly 3 minutes) video of the Coalition’s achievements – and the tweet goes around the world. [Sorry, not tech savvy enough to put up a link.] It must really hack off the Natz party strategists!

   Also, I live in Christchurch but I could hear Soimun grinding his teeth in Botany when he congratulated the next leader of the Natz on his selection.

   It’s going to be a dirty election campaign next year because that’s all the Natz have got, but first points to the Coalition.
   • Sanctuary 1.1

     5 November 2019 at 7:21 am

     You can't fake star power.
     • quasimodo 1.1.1

       5 November 2019 at 11:46 am

       Corbyn: 'the future is ours to make'.

       https://labourlist.org/2019/10/the-future-is-ours-to-make-together-corbyns-campaign-launch-speech/
       • greywarshark 1.1.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 12:14 pm

         Edit
         Are you in UK or NZ quasimodo? Brexit and UK Labour are a topic on their own.

         Looking at Corbyn’s speech – free prescriptions, free care for the elderly – both enormously growing costs to the state. He is a bit free with his promises methinks when he wants to appeal to the wide British public:

         Thank you for that welcome. Today we are launching the most ambitious and radical campaign our country has ever seen to bring real change to our country.

         If you want to live in a society that works for everybody and not just the billionaires, if you want to save our hospitals, schools and public services from Tory cuts and privatisation, if you want to stop the big polluters destroying our environment then this election is your chance to vote for it.

         The choice could not be clearer. We put our faith in the British people’s spirit and commitment to community. It’s your country. That’s why we stand with you.
         (Notice he refers to ‘British’.)

         He will appeal to the simple-minded, innocent and trusting, but people who think about stuff know there have to be boundaries on promises. Otherwise, as Paul Simon says – ‘They’re a pocketful of mumbles’. Labour can’t afford to mumble, as Corbyn says
         • quasimodo 1.1.1.1.1

           5 November 2019 at 1:10 pm

           Are you trying to enforce thematic conformism ? What happened to the cut and thrust of honest debate ? We otherwise have the depressing prospect of Simon swinging at the mercy of self-appointed Nationalist grandees.
           • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1.1

             5 November 2019 at 1:13 pm

             Uh? I don't have your advantage of looking down from a high place. I am just down here at the grassroots.
             • quasimodo …

               5 November 2019 at 1:56 pm

               Have a look at Corbyn's speech. I don't know who wrote it but it has a great riff near the end .. "whose side are you on ?" Luxton may have cause to ponder.
2. Sanctuary 2

   5 November 2019 at 7:19 am

   Ol' Luxton is totally after Simon's job.

   I am not sure he is Key 2.0 though. He has a lot more baggage. He is an awfully happy clappy God squadder who has already revealed himself as an antediluvian anti-abortionist and he is very unpopular in the provinces due to his decisions at Air New Zealand for example.

   And he'll have to step up his game in interviews, RNZ just did a gotcha on him over vaccinations that was so, so easy…
   • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.1

     5 November 2019 at 7:54 am

     Just listened to that interview – conclusion: I've got to question Luxton's political judgement – "We've got an outstanding leader in Simon Bridges."

     Talked with an airhostess from Air New Zealand – not at all happy with Luxton's leadership or management style. Perhaps he may be Key 2.0.
     • Incognito 2.1.1

       5 November 2019 at 7:59 am

       Oh, but I agree, Simon Bridges stands out alright.
     • OnceWasTim 2.1.2

       5 November 2019 at 8:13 am

       "We've got an outstanding leader in Simon Bridges."

       Let's see if he takes 'personal responsibility' for that when the knives come out. They're being sharpened this very moment
       • Stuart Munro. 2.1.2.1

         5 November 2019 at 8:40 am

         It's likely to be painful – none of the Gnats can hold much of an edge – they're essentially blunt instruments.
       • Wensleydale 2.1.2.2

         5 November 2019 at 9:57 am

         You don't think Luxton will resort to 'convenient Christianity' when he knifes Bridges in the kidneys on his way up? "Yes, we rolled Simon while claiming to support him unequivocally, but it was for the good of the party, and therefore the good of all mankind. Hallelujah!"
         • In Vino 2.1.2.2.1

           5 November 2019 at 4:59 pm

           Umm John Luxton retired from parliament some years ago now. I think this newbie is Luxon, without the 't'. Or am I wrong?
           • Wensleydale 2.1.2.2.1.1

             5 November 2019 at 10:53 pm

             No, you're quite right. Well spotted.
     • mikesh 2.1.3

       5 November 2019 at 5:10 pm

       I can see that Christopher Luxon will have to change his surname to Luxton if commenters are going to continue to use that name.
   • AB 2.2

     5 November 2019 at 7:57 am

     He sounded like a cookie cutter right wing business guy from the shallow end of the pool. Fetishising "personal responsibility", ignorantly stating that Key was "the greatest PM ever" , sliding ever so easily into a bit of bene bashing. So all the ingredients he needs to be very successful in this dumbarse village.
     • Incognito 2.2.1

       5 November 2019 at 8:01 am

       Just like John Key, another personal vanity project.
     • Anne 2.2.2

       5 November 2019 at 9:34 am

       And he has a wife who thinks she is NZ's equivalent to the Duchess of Cambridge – better know as Kate Middleton.

       Yeah… a bit of bitching but it's true.

       Oh and that ‘dowager’ duchess, Michelle Boag reckons he’s a :

       rilly, rilly loverly maaan.

       That’s enough to send shivers down one’s spine.
       • Wensleydale 2.2.2.1

         5 November 2019 at 10:02 am

         I'm fairly certain 'rilly, rilly loverly' men don't join the National Party. Isn't being a self-serving, overly-ambitious arsehole a prerequisite for membership? I still can't get my head around Nikki Kaye. She seems warm, personable and genuine for the most part, but… National. Unless she has multiple personalities, I don't understand how she reconciles being a Bastard Party MP with being, you know, a decent human being.
         • greywarshark 2.2.2.1.1

           5 November 2019 at 10:14 am

           Lewis Carroll went wandering in his mind and thought up a character very like Michelle Boag. This link has a drawing of Alice and the White Queen and I'm not sure of the character on the right. Great likeness for Michelle on the left though, except that's the wrong side!

           https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/10/from-trump-to-brexit-here-are-six-previously-impossible-things-f/
         • JanM 2.2.2.1.2

           5 November 2019 at 10:17 am

           I felt the same about Marilyn Waring. Do you think it could be naivete ?
           • Anne 2.2.2.1.2.1

             5 November 2019 at 10:34 am

             Tribal politics I think – brought up on a particular political brand.

             In Marilyn Waring's case, she suffered at the hands of Muldoon and she would have learnt what it is like to be discriminated against in general terms – in her case due to sexual orientation. There's nothing like a bit of personal experience to change one's views .

             Nikki Kaye is unlikely to have been exposed to the same sort of treatment.
   • OnceWasTim 2.3

     5 November 2019 at 8:00 am

     Well….probably as much baggage. It's just that Key manages to bury his, and Luxton wears his like a badge of honour. Both as bad as each other
   • observer 2.4

     5 November 2019 at 8:06 am

     He isn't Key 2.0, and people shouldn't buy into that simplistic label ("coz rich white CEO, same same"). Key's god was Key.

     Based on their public statements and (where relevant) votes in Parliament, Luxon is even more conservative than Bridges, who is more conservative than English, who was more conservative than Key, who was "pragmatic" (i.e saw the polls and voted for marriage equality).

     A majority of National's own MPs voted for the 1st reading of Abortion Reform Bill. They might not later, after committee, but even going that far is too far for Luxon. If you take all the social issues currently debated (cannabis, euthanasia etc) he is more like a Craig Conservative or the fundies in Dunne's 2002 caucus. He should really be leading a 5% minority party, National's fantasy friend.

     Family First have endorsed him enthusiastically. Enough said.
     • greywarshark 2.4.1

       5 November 2019 at 9:53 am

       Well observed I think. Is having a male Jenny Shipley what National needs today? The way that National acts (get the pun!) just demonstrates that they have no interest in the country as a whole.

       We are of as much interest as the starving Irish people in the second potato famine were to the Brits. The Brits knew about incipient famines because they had provided help with the first, but the second was a bridge too far, and the food production had been contracted out to feed the British Army.

       It was collateral damage that the people went without while the plans and wants of the powerful were satisfied. And that is the modus operandi of the Gnats here, suck us dry and feed us words of needing higher productivity and efficiency as an excuse. That sucks!

       They are interested in 'me and mine', and the group of wealthies they belong to, aspirational for swimming pools, big houses and grounds, or boutique apartments wherever they wish to visit FTTT. Also well-managed funds with investments in things of destruction or addiction, that people will keep buying even when they have to borrow at 0.8% per day (or 292% p.a.) to get them.

       Even people involved in money wealth creation have trouble explaining their work clearly as in this report from interest.co.nz. https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/101502/government-includes-daily-interest-rate-cap-loans-part-bid-crack-down-loan
       'In April FinCap chief executive Tim Barnett said the Government’s proposed amendments didn’t hit loan sharks hard enough and called for a cap on interest rates and called for an interest rate cap. The organisation is the umbrella body for New Zealand’s budgeting and financial capability services.'

       So thinking about money and arithmetic is riveting, but the RW government's disdainful policies for handling the poor, especially 'the breeders', is just political garbage-work though essential to keep the vermin down. Luxon shows that he is willing to be a good squaddie to get a carriage on the gravy train like John Key did.
   • Tiger Mountain 2.5

     5 November 2019 at 8:10 am

     Yes, as per this morning on RNZ, WFF recipients will be pleased to hear that in Mr Luxon’s view they will need to vaccinate their kids in order to receive their “in work tax credits”…

     Also our shiny domed hero has to play snakes and ladders with Jami Lee Ross before he is an MP, yet alone leader of the NZ National Party–a mere formality of course political experts say.
     • tc 2.5.1

       5 November 2019 at 12:03 pm

       Wait till the campaign cos if they don't pay off gag JLR he could do significant damage as luxon's another copy/paste corporate executioner with limited charisma.

       If I was winnie I'd drop a strong NZF candidate in Botany high enough on their list to still be an MP and have some more fun at natz expense.
   • veutoviper 2.6

     5 November 2019 at 9:20 am

     IMHO Luxon stands out as Jamie Whyte 2.0 – not Key 2.0. In looks as well as in his views.

     My money (Nil) is on him not lasting long – and possibly not even until next year's election.

     For anyone wanting them, here are the links to the Morning Report item on Luxon's selection and his MR interview – and also the link to Jami-Lee Ross' interview later in Morning Report. Ross made some good points imo.

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018720736/inside-the-national-party-s-botany-selection-meeting

     .https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018720739/luxon-wins-botany-spot

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018720752/jami-lee-ross-responds-to-christopher-luxon-s-selection
     • Peter 2.6.1

       5 November 2019 at 9:29 am

       Ross might make salient points. They will have less than zero effect on Luxon and his flying in in Botany.

       Luxon's views on vaccinating kids in order to receive their “in work tax credits” or anything specific (as mentioned by Tiger Mountain) are irrelevant.

       A la Key, Luxon publicly slaying babies would see his Botany vote solidify rather than diminish.
       • Tricledrown 2.6.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 11:03 am

         Luxon playing the National PParty divide and conquer play book punish the poor for being poor. Why not stop free education which does not discriminate for those who don't vaccinate.
     • solkta 2.6.2

       5 November 2019 at 9:50 am

       It will be interesting to see how high National put him on the list. A high spot would give him standing and provide insurance just in case Ross did actually win the seat. But putting him high on the list would play into Ross' point that the voters can have both of them by vote splitting. Is Luxon there to oust Ross or be leader? Strategies for each may conflict.
       • Peter 2.6.2.1

         5 November 2019 at 11:54 am

         Do you seriously believe Luxon needs the insurance of a high place in case Ross actually wins the seat?

         There is as much chance of Ross winning the seat as there is of Walter Nash winning back the Hutt electorate next year.
     • McFlock 2.6.3

       5 November 2019 at 2:51 pm

       ha – it wasn't Whyte who came to my mind so much as Don Brash.

       Nats seem to regard these chosen men are a bit like a gambler looks at a lucky number: they recall the one big streak, but forget all the losers.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.7

     5 November 2019 at 11:45 am

     I really think he could be Key 2.0, and may well prove as successful for the National Party.

     There is a lot of discussion about his beliefs, values etc here. If National have proved nothing else – it is that none of that matters. A good sound bite – being "rich / successful", fakely 'relatable' and some sleazy marketing angles pay dividends in the NZ electorate for the right.
     • McFlock 2.7.1

       5 November 2019 at 2:58 pm

       Trouble with genuinely-held beliefs is that they can get in the way of saying the most expedient thing. Or their previous expression can contradict what you say now.

       Key was a moral vacuum. That's why he could say "whatever it takes" one minute and do fuckall the next.
       • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.7.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 4:05 pm

         I doubt Luxon has a shortage of moral vacuum – but yes, perhaps he has some inconvenient values.
3. marty mars 3

   5 November 2019 at 9:43 am

   a pondering

   wft about this trade deal – how does the climate emergency fit with this – seems fucken forgetful to me.

   My 12 year old just left for school camp today – I'm pleased he gets to do this.

   Jacinda pisses me off but the alternatives are nauseating – bridges, collins, bennett and now this luxon – what a bunch of idiots – imagine them in charge and don't forget that feeling come election time.

   We are so smart as a species and so thick – just like every other species except for this shit I think

   Twelve billion miles from Earth, there is an elusive boundary that marks the edge of the sun’s realm and the start of interstellar space. When Voyager 2, the longest-running space mission, crossed that frontier more than 40 years after its launch it sent a faint signal from the other side that scientists have now decoded.

   …From beyond the heliosphere, the signal from Voyager 2 is still beaming back, taking more than 16 hours to reach Earth. Its 22.4-watt transmitter has a power equivalent to a fridge light, which is more than a billion billion times dimmer by the time it reaches Earth and is picked up by Nasa’s largest antenna, a 70-metre dish.

   The two Voyager probes, powered by steadily decaying plutonium, are projected to drop below critical energy levels in the mid-2020s. But they will continue on their trajectories long after they fall silent. “The two Voyagers will outlast Earth,” said Kurth. “They’re in their own orbits around the galaxy for 5bn years or longer. And the probability of them running into anything is almost zero.”

   https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/nov/04/nasa-voyager-2-sends-back-first-signal-from-interstellar-space
   • weka 3.1

     5 November 2019 at 12:32 pm

     I think most Westerners have still to unpack our own experiences of colonisation, that happened a long time ago and from which we have neither recovered nor even really taken into account. We are so deep now in the split of matter and spirit, or mind and body, or human and nature, that we struggle to even see the problem.

     So at the moment the problem is seen as carbon emissions and how to reduce them in a time frame that if we were going to step out of denial will almost certainly require a drop in standard of living for the industrialised world. Instead of seeing climate change as really being about our relationship with nature and then being able to see that all the solutions are there waiting for us from that other, deeper reality.

     This is my way of making sense of spending all that tremendous intelligence, technological development, time, energy, intuition, and physical material on space exploration instead of realigning ourselves with nature and getting really good, en masse, at the tech that restores and regenerates.
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       5 November 2019 at 7:02 pm

       Inspiring words weka.
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 7:09 pm

         thanks grey.
   • Climaction 3.2

     5 November 2019 at 7:48 pm

     Thank you! Everyone is always on here sweating the small stuff National, the opposition, are doing or complaining about overseas issuea.

     no one is taking stock of the lack of progress this government has made with sustainable housing, public transport and moving the economy to sustainable practices. It’s one announcement it’s been able to triumph about is adding to the neo liberal, emission creating, global economy
4. OnceWasTim 4

   5 November 2019 at 9:50 am

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/05/895405/migrant-exploitation-review-a-government-chasing-its-tail

   Exactery!

   [ "But while the review doesn’t address the desire for residence that leaves many workers open to exploitation, several major positives in the review were highlighted by Kaloti and Bela.

   They include a unit at MBIE dedicated to combating migrant worker exploitation and measures to help chase employers if they liquidate multiple companies to avoid liability. " ]

   I guess small steps are better than no steps and Rome wasn't built in a day. And then there's a decade of NZ's previous junta making sure the whole thing became industrialised.
   • greywarshark 4.1

     5 November 2019 at 10:06 am

     Industrialising, downsizing staff and replacing with – overseas call centres, technological algorithms replacing staff, less interest in spending money on people first because they are worth it, or second because it makes good long-term sense for a NZ Inc wants to be a well-run enterprise.

     Our National Party Junta has a known course and rigid mindset. Will they find support from the previous class-deserting former-worker insurgents? Watch and see as this interesting tale of human endeavour, lost loves and imminent tragedy unfolds.
     • OnceWasTim 4.1.1

       5 November 2019 at 1:39 pm

       Interesting paragraph from @Weka at 3.1 above (especially her first paragraph ). Sums it all up nicely really. I always try and avoid the word 'colonisation' precisely because we can't seem to deal with it and its effects.

       I was half expecting someone's alter ego (who has commented here on another thread) to respond, with another insular, link-laden response and rant about 'activist media' that don't conform to his world view – could still happen I 'spose.

       Btw @greywarshark, now I've looked at things re disappearing comments elsewhere, I think its not as sinister as you may think – maybe more to do with our being caught up in a block-delete of comments that came after yours and/or mine
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 2:00 pm

         Ta, where would we be without something to wonder/worry about. Probably in the in-firm-ary.
5. joe90 5

   5 November 2019 at 11:22 am

   Gangster in Chief.

   https://twitter.com/tburages/status/1191405984444551169

   https://twitter.com/tburages/status/1191405996914163714
6. bwaghorn 6

   5 November 2019 at 11:23 am

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117051213/greens-have-a-tenuous-relationship-with-science

   This young falla reckons the greens are anti science if it doesn't suit their ideology.
   • greywarshark 6.1

     5 November 2019 at 12:00 pm

     I think he could be noticing that the Greens think about 'science' and past and new methods of using it, and don't just jump up like a slavering dog woofing with joy at a treat.

     FEI –
     About Peter Griffin https://petergriffin.co.nz
     Sep 15, 2011 – Peter Griffin is a Wellington-based science and technology journalist with 20 years experience in the New Zealand media covering science, technology, media and business. … in 2009 he founded Sciblogs.co.nz, the Australasia’s largest science blog network which is still going strong …

     He was Director of the Science Media Centre.
     2017 https://thespinoff.co.nz/author/peter-griffin/
     Peter Griffin is Director of the Science Media Centre and the founder and editor of Sciblogs. Prior to founding the SMC, he was Technology Editor of the New Zealand Herald. Peter was the 2012 Fulbright-Harkness Fellow and undertook research in the US looking at centres of excellence in public interest journalism.

     A man for all seasons:
     Tech talk with Peter Griffin | RNZ https://www.rnz.co.nz › national › programmes › afternoons › audio › tec…
     Nov 22, 2018 – Peter Griffin takes a look at the kinds of new or old technology that people might be looking to buy for Christmas or in the new year sales and …
7. UncookedSelachimorpha 7

   5 November 2019 at 11:49 am

   For once The Guardian is not locked to neoliberalism and the usual economic fallacies – and appears to back Jeremy Corbyn!!

   Maybe there is hope.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/04/the-guardian-view-on-labours-radical-plans-fix-the-economy-and-democracy
   • Dukeofurl 7.1

     5 November 2019 at 12:19 pm

     Notice that is the 'official' Guardian view, they still will publish lots of personal views of their columnists who hold their nose over Corbyn- those columns are the ones syndicated for re-publishing around the world.

     I do wonder about who the Editorial board are talking to when they say phrases like this

     "The result was an immiseration of ordinary people and the forced decay of the public realm. "
   • Nic the NZer 7.2

     5 November 2019 at 12:40 pm

     My guess for whence this eventuates. John McDonell keeps losing economics debates (over his flagship fiscal credibility idea) with factions of UK Labour (who apply their MMT derived understanding of the UK economy). He is probably realising that his present position doesn't ever see him as the Chancellor and is looking to shift from it, at least rhetorically.
8. mary_a 8

   5 November 2019 at 11:53 am

   Whilst on the sordid topic of the nasty Natz, RNZ website has just announced Maggie Barry is to retire from politics at the 2020 election. More to come.

   No doubt Ms Barry has served her 9 years +, during which time she has contributed to creating more suffering and hardship amongst the nation's impoverished and vulnerable. Now after that time, she is able to walk away with a tidy pension and life time perks!
   • greywarshark 8.1

     5 November 2019 at 12:11 pm

     To get rid of the purse-padders should we bring down the terms required to serve to two as MPs? It isn't long I know, but a week in politics can be a game-changer, and six years of pain and suffering to the country's people and flagging economy would be plenty.

     Paying up to prevent another 3 years would be a good deal looked at in reality. Picture the unwanted pollie with small hand gun saying "Pay up or I will hang around your neck, ruin your prospects – whatever you have left – and ensure you never get to heaven"! I know what I would choose.
   • tc 8.2

     5 November 2019 at 12:22 pm

     Exactly, troughs assured now sling the hook as there will be more. expect a dan Bidois clone or a demographic box tick candidate.
     • bwaghorn 8.2.1

       5 November 2019 at 3:17 pm

       Most likely a pre purchased indian or Chinese candidate. $100K gets a list spot ! One wonders what a safe electorate costs.
   • Dukeofurl 8.3

     5 November 2019 at 12:27 pm

     I dont think the gravy train after 9 years works like that anymore

     "The travel perk only applies to MPs who served three terms before 1999 and is capped at the cheapest Air New Zealand business class flight to London each year and 12 domestic return flights."

     the pension is generous ($2.50 for every $1 put in, plus any investing gains if they ran a personal scheme), but no special deal at the 9 yr stage.
     • greywarshark 8.3.1

       5 November 2019 at 1:03 pm

       This is informative for an overview.

       Former MPs and their perks – salary, free travel and taxpayer-funded car Sept 2017

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11927540
       • Dukeofurl 8.3.1.1

         5 November 2019 at 5:43 pm

         Thats not true . Read the article again…the only person getting a car is former PMs. Salary is for 3 months after election, and not connected to 9 yrs service.
   • alwyn 8.4

     5 November 2019 at 1:21 pm

     "she is able to walk away with a tidy pension and life time perks! "

     She will get no such thing. The fabled pension and perks for retiring MPs were abolished a long, long time ago. The only current MPs who will receive life time pensions when they retire are Nick Smith and Jacinda Ardern.

     Nick because he was an MP elected in 1990 and Jacinda because she has been PM for 2 years. There are no continuing perks for anyone else except for the free trip to Wellington to clean out their office and the 3 months pay they get after Election day.
     • Dukeofurl 8.4.1

       5 November 2019 at 5:48 pm

       The government contributes to the pension scheme of their own choice too, some use Kiwisaver, but at a much more generous rate than ordinary workers.

       national MPs seem to prefer their own private super scheme, which they choose the investments , often property
       • alwyn 8.4.1.1

         6 November 2019 at 7:02 pm

         The subsidy rate for any Super scheme is generous but certainly not that far out of line. They can contribute up to 8% of their basic back bench MP salary and it will be matched at 2.5 times their contribution.

         That is good but not way out of step with other organisations. In the last full time job I held. with a large Australian company in the mid 1990's I could put 6% of my salary into Super and they would match it at a 14% rate. That wasn't all that different and it covered all my salary, not just the portion that the basic minimum level available to an MP represents.

         Incidentally you may be interested to know that everybody's favourite bogeyman among the MPs who have left Parliament in the last couple of years, Stephen Joyce, never took advantage of the scheme. He was, as far as I know, the only MP in the last Parliament who never collected the 20% extra available to him. Everyone else took it because they could. Greedy little buggers weren't they?
9. greywarshark 9

   5 November 2019 at 12:36 pm

   Would this be called a Claytons move? Or is it a wise first step out of the conundrum?

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402550/occupied-ihumatao-land-could-be-granted-highest-heritage-status

   Heritage New Zealand is considering giving the land at Ihumātao the highest level of heritage recognition, but it won't change the consent for the Fletcher housing development.
   • alwyn 9.1

     6 November 2019 at 7:11 pm

     In legal terms classifying a property has no direct effect.

     "Entry on the List:

     • does not equal automatic protection
     • does not directly create regulatory consequences or legal obligations on property owners
     • does not directly create specific rights or control over property.
     • can provide heritage funding opportunities such as the National Heritage Preservation Incentive Fund.
     • can lead to heritage properties being considered for inclusion in district plan heritage schedules"

     https://www.heritage.org.nz/the-list/about-the-list
10. Dukeofurl 10

    5 November 2019 at 12:42 pm

    Maggie Barry retiring continues the cleanout of Amy Adams supporters from caucus

    The rough support groups described here at the time

    national party has more in common with the Politburo than you might think
11. greywarshark 11

    5 November 2019 at 12:45 pm

    Someone the other day was almost in tears about the affect on Samoa of measles which infection can be laid squarely at NZs door.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/402548/samoa-measles-epidemic-suspected-cases-could-be-tip-of-iceberg

    Now, new global research shows the virus is even more dangerous than first realised because it destroys immunity to other diseases.

    So our carelessness under easy-peasy no regulations, little public health support for the poor, is coming home not so much to us but to bite another more vulnerable country.

    We need to pass a law that gives immediate attention and full support to Western Samoa and ensures that continues for a full year, and then continues for another five years at half the budget of the first year for four years. We can afford it, if we aren't prepared to spend some of the theoretical credits in our own country, then it won't be a waste of money to help Western Samoa, and give us street cred as well.
    • Dukeofurl 11.1

      5 November 2019 at 5:40 pm

      "affect on Samoa of measles which infection can be laid squarely at NZs door."

      Thats absurd . Measles is a contagious disease , it spreads naturally. The measles epidemic arrived in NZ from overseas too- they say it was 12 separate outbreaks here based on the virus analysis, and they spread to people connected to those 12 original originators. One of those infected visited Samoa, nothing to do 'with NZ'

      Samoa has direct flights NZ , Fiji, Pago Pago and Brisbane, so would have arrived by air anyway
12. greywarshark 12

    5 November 2019 at 12:57 pm

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12282326&ref=clavis

    Mars Petcare announces closure of Whanganui factory in late 2020

    The Whanganui road going down the hill wouldn't have helped. They are going to Thailand. World ownership of business will suck us dry, set up do okay, then oh dear we can only stay if you drop wages, drop electricity price. Nothing is certain these days, but having overseas giants own us is certainly more uncertain than if we owned it ourselves and ran a viable concern.
13. Pat 13

    5 November 2019 at 1:15 pm

    "When the world witnessed the “Arab Spring” it waited in fervent hope for an Arab Summer that never came. The young, middle-class Egyptians who crowded into Cairo’s Tahrir Square demanded democracy. But, when they got it, the answer it provided to the question: “Who are the people, and what do they want?” was not at all to their liking. Within months, the soldiers were back in charge, and the people’s choice, the Muslim Brotherhood, were back in jail – or dead. In politics, as in no other human activity, people should be very careful what they wish for.

    Planning for the future will always produce a richer harvest than merely wishing away the present. Protest, if it is to be effective, has to make more than noise – it has to make sense."

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/11/05/global-protests-rage-on-but-slogans-are-not-plans/

    Fail to plan, plan to fail
14. Gosman 14

    5 November 2019 at 2:03 pm

    This is why it is almost impossible to get pragmatic practical steps to tackle climate change at these conferences. They become magnets for groups like this who then help turn it in to a talk fest about "intersectional challenges" blah blah.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
15. Tricledrown 15

    5 November 2019 at 6:53 pm

    Luxon playing the National PParty divide and conquer play book punish the poor for being poor. Why not stop free education which does not discriminate for those who don't vaccinate.
    • Stuart Munro. 15.1

      5 November 2019 at 7:38 pm

      It's preemptive really – the poor have the most reason to indict National for their egregious failures. Let the poor find their voice and the Gnats and their dodgy backers are history.
16. greywarshark 16

    5 November 2019 at 10:08 pm

    31 October 2019 on forestry which we are too weak and useless to do for ourselves which we did last century. The Green Rush series on Radionz.

    Forestry conversions rules 'totally out of control'

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/402225/forestry-conversions-rules-totally-out-of-control

    Overseas Investment Office (OIO) decisions made in September and released today show the sales total more than 2200 hectares of land previously owned by New Zealanders, in Gisborne, Wairoa and Whangarei.

    The new owners plan to plant 1600 hectares of the land as commercial forests.

    Austrian count Johannes Trauttmansdorff-Weinsberg, who purchased two other sheep and beef farms for forestry conversion in August, is the purchaser of two of the latest properties. Another Austrian, Wolfgang Leitner, and a Swiss-German company, Kauri Forestry LP, have bought the other land.

    At least one of Mr Trautmansdorff-Weinsberg's deals was brokered through veteran forestry consultant Roger Dickie, who was found to have breached OIO rules earlier this year over a similar deal.
17. WILD KATIPO 17

    5 November 2019 at 10:16 pm

    https://youtu.be/ETOIIWot-3Y?t=199https://youtu.be/ETOIIWot-3Y?t=199https://youtu.be/ETOIIWot-3Y?t=199

    https://youtu.be/e8CPc4MAL1c?t=3https://youtu.be/e8CPc4MAL1c?t=3https://

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • WILD KATIPO 17.1

      5 November 2019 at 10:18 pm

      I don't do or support pot… but pot is the 2019 equivalent to moonshine…

      Hear these words.

      Its the truth.
      • WILD KATIPO 17.1.1

        5 November 2019 at 10:25 pm

        Look out, Mama, there's a white boat coming up the river
        With a big red beacon, and a flag, and a man on the rail
        I think you'd better call John
        Because it don't look like they're here to deliver the mail
        And it's less than a mile away
        I hope they didn't come to stay
        It's got numbers on the side and a gun
        And it's making big waves

        [Verse 2]
        Daddy's gone, my brother's out hunting in the mountains
        Big John's been drinking since the river took Emmy-Lou

        v

        So the powers that be
        left me here
        to do the thinkin'
        And I just turned twenty-two
        I was wonderin' what to do
        And the closer they got,
        The more those feelings grew.

        Daddy's rifle in my hand
        felt reassurin'
        He told me,
        Red means run, son,
        numbers add up to nothin'
        But when the first shot
        hit the docks I saw it comin'
        Raised my rifle to my eye
        Never stopped to wonder why.
        Then I saw black,
        And my face splashed in the sky.

        Shelter me from the powder
        and the finger
        Cover me with the thought
        that pulled the trigger
        Think of me
        as one you'd never figured
        Would fade away so young
        With so much left undone
        Remember me to my love

        Shelter me from the powder
        and the finger
        Cover me with the thought
        that pulled the trigger
        Think of me
        as one you'd never figured
        Would fade away so young
        With so much left undone
        Remember me to my love,
        I know I'll miss her.
    • WILD KATIPO 17.2

      5 November 2019 at 10:31 pm

      Mate- its open mike.

      And unless your weka or some other biased online hustler… you aint got a show. Id suggest you be more careful in future yourself, as the Greens seem quite disposed towards certain practices. Crawl out of your cave and get real . Even the USA which you choose to malign because of Trump has modernized.

      So get off wanker, … grow a pair and name who you are as a mod.

      No one gives a shit about who you want to pretend you are, and no one seriously gives you a flying shit.
18. WILD KATIPO 18

    5 November 2019 at 10:58 pm

    What… they were the embodiment of pacifism and world peace?

    Piss off.

    Paraihaka my arse.

    Get a load of reality and stop filling peoples heads with bullshit, a – holes.

    Ancient Celtic New Zealand

    http://www.celticnz.co.nzv

    Get a grip on yourselves.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    

    [I’ve pushed a number of comments to Trash, in large part because of the aggressive and spammy nature of your posting tonight. A 24 time out so you can settle down seems warranted. I’ll put your comments in premod after that, so I can keep an eye on them. Please reread the Policy, about not using language or tone that has the effect of excluding others – weka]
    • WILD KATIPO 18.1

      5 November 2019 at 11:09 pm

      The greatest insult you could deliver was to murder some poor bastard the night before, cook him in a hangi , then shit out his remains the next morning after.

      That was common in Europe as well as New Zealand. Stop pulling the monumental porkies.

      Just dont.

      We all, have read up on the subject.

      You cant hide whats in plain sight.

      There was a story of Cook and his men inviting a group of Maori warriors aboard,… an old warrior offered the remains of a skull to the sailors… they were nauseous… the remains of a young warrior were cooked and contained in kiti bags… but the brains were the best part according to the old warrior…

      Such was cannibalism and the insult of shitting out the remains of a warrior the next morning considered.

      What is it with you soft cocks that you cant accept history???

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