Open Mike 05/11/2016

126 comments on “Open Mike 05/11/2016 ”

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1. Richard Rawshark 1

   5 November 2016 at 6:45 am

   Murray McCully resigned from his Tourism portfolio in April 1999 after questions were raised regarding his handling of the resignation and subsequent payout of members of the Tourism board.

   Audrey Young-The threshold for a McCully sacking is higher than for ordinary ministers because despite his failings, he is good at his job. And that helps Key.

   and the government paid a measley 320k to support Helen Clarks UN bid, but spend 500k on figuring out why southlanders roll there RR’s and 23 million on a flag referendum..

   Helens Clarks UN bid support should see the lot of them sacked IMHO 320k for something far more beneficial than a saudi trade deal or the TPP for NZ..but we have all learned just how slack national are at working out priorities.

   But Audrey Youngs piece..flies in the face of facts it’s unbelievable the shit she writes.
2. Ben 2

   5 November 2016 at 6:58 am

   Just in time for the Labour conference:

   During October support for National rose by 6.5% to 48% now clearly ahead of a potential Labour/ Greens alliance 38% (down 7.5%) after Prime Minister John Key travelled extensively overseas – including an address to a UN conference in late September. If a New Zealand Election was held now the latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows National would be re-elected.

   However, support for the National partners was down slightly with the Maori Party down 0.5% to 1.5% while Act NZ was 0.5% (down 0.5%) and United Future was 0% (unchanged).

   Of the three Parliamentary Opposition parties – Labour’s support was at 26.5% (down 7%), Greens 11.5% (down 0.5%) and NZ First 10% (up 1.5%). Of the parties outside Parliament the Internet Party was 0.5% (up 0.5%), Conservative Party of NZ was 0% (down 0.5%), the Mana Party was 0% (unchanged) and support for Independent/ Other was 1.5% (up 0.5%).

   In line with the jump in support for National the NZ Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating has risen to 126.5pts (up 9.5pts) in October with 55.5% (up 3.5%) of NZ electors saying NZ is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to only 29% (down 6%) that say NZ is ‘heading in the wrong direction’).
   • mlpc 2.1

     5 November 2016 at 8:16 am

     I doubt it has anything to do with the PM travelling overseas.

     It’s probably more to do with the major economic indicators looking good: GDP growing faster and faster, employment up, unemployment down, public finances back in surplus.

     Bill Clinton was correct.
     • joe90 2.1.1

       5 November 2016 at 8:23 am

       Bill Clinton was correct.

       James Carville?.
       • mlpc 2.1.1.1

         5 November 2016 at 8:46 am

         You are correct, but it was the essence of what Clinton actually said.
   • save nz 2.2

     5 November 2016 at 10:41 am

     The less the public see of Key the more they like him.
3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

   5 November 2016 at 7:39 am

   Looking forward to this new doco “All Governments Lie,” featuring Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill, opens today in N.Y. and L.A. Here is the trailer.
   • Cinny 3.1

     5 November 2016 at 9:43 am

     primoly, thanks for the info, looks great
   • Richard Rawshark 3.2

     5 November 2016 at 5:57 pm

     NOT LABOUR!
4. Murray Simmonds 4

   5 November 2016 at 8:05 am

   NOT TO BE MISSED:

   Grahame Sydney talking to Cosmo on “Country Life” this morning (Sat 5 Nov).

   An articulate, sensitive, “long-term-thinking” artist vs the “Key-Establisment-type” short-term idiots that currently govern this country.

   Well worth a listen: “Golden Valleys turn Green” – an interview about the effects of irrigation on the Central Otago landscape.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201822566

   (Much the same scenario is being played out in Canterbury.)
5. halfcrown 5

   5 November 2016 at 9:08 am

   Supplementary reading to Sheepgate- have a read of this.

   http://www.wakeupnz.net/13-7m-nz-taxpayer-funds-donated-shady-clinton-charity/
6. Draco T Bastard 6

   5 November 2016 at 9:12 am

   Aren’t we generous?

   …Political controversy surrounding Hilary Clinton’s philanthropic efforts has found its way to New Zealand, reports Jason Walls. New Zealand taxpayer funding, through MFAT to the Clinton Health Access Initiative health initiative, will continue with $6 million more budgeted to be donated to the fund on top of $7 million already donated, NBR has learned.
   • Richard Rawshark 6.1

     5 November 2016 at 5:58 pm

     There’s a lot of this sort of thing that goes unpublished by the MSM and damn straight they know about it..
7. te reo putake 7

   5 November 2016 at 9:29 am

   Here’s one for Morrissey, who I know loves football. A contender for goal of the year, even?

   I can’t help thinking that if this was Suarez or Diego Costa, the goal would never have been scored, because gamesmanship is often more important than the game and they would have stayed down hoping the defender got red carded.

   Perhaps woman’s football is both stronger in personality and truer to the spirit of sport?
   • The New Student 7.1

     6 November 2016 at 8:32 pm

     That is beautiful. Wonderful stuff. I’m not sure if that’s a hallmark of women’s sport; all I was taught (mild term) was that if you’re a female, especially one who dares to play on a men’s team (because there’s no women’s teams or you’re just as capable) nobody is going to look favourably upon your whinging. You shut up, get up and keep playing until the whistle. Being a ‘girl’ (milking, drama, diving, histrionics) was the fastest and surest route to the bench.

     Sometimes you play to push your own limits, rather than to push other people’s buttons
8. Draco T Bastard 8

   5 November 2016 at 9:31 am

   I was shot by militarized police WHILE interviewing a peaceful man at Standing Rock live on camera.

   but I want you to witness the indiscriminate use of excessive force firsthand. Many have said that militarized police firing a rubber bullet at a female reporter was a fabrication, provoked by violence, or otherwise merited, including a Morton County, North Dakota press release. That is a lie; we have proof and eyewitnesses

   More oppression of the people by the corporations in the “Land of the Free”.
   • Richard Rawshark 8.1

     5 November 2016 at 6:01 pm

     I was held up by the Greek Military at airport in Rhodes at the point of several uzi’s(TRUE) my gear thrown on the floor and asked if I was Albanian..

     Thank god I was born in NZ had a kiwi passport.

     thank god…… thank you thank you thanks you!!!
     • Richard Rawshark 8.1.1

       5 November 2016 at 6:01 pm

       as in one law rules the world the law of the gun, you cannot argue without one.
9. marty mars 9

   5 November 2016 at 9:32 am

   It has been great to see the worldwide solidarity at Standing Rock.

   But we have MAJOR issues to contend with HERE. Such as the government idea that they will take our tamariki and cut them off from their culture. HANDS OFF OUR TAMARIKI !!! This misguided approach (to be very nice about it) is proven to be the worst thing to do to people and causes so many more problems right down the track and across the spectrum of society. So haka and pledges for Standing Rock – we need them for this latest desecration of our culture – the colonisers time honoured tradition of taking our children and ‘protecting’ them by cutting them out of their culture, their heritage, their birthright. Of course the colonisers love it – it reduces the strength of pesky indigenous folk and edges them closer to the cliff edge.

   “‘Hands Off Our Tamariki’ has been developed to raise awareness of the issues related to the State removal of Māori children and the placement of our tamariki in non-Māori (Primarily Pākēhā families). It is our view that this form of removal and abuse of our tamariki must end, and that only way to bring it to an end is for whānau, hapū, iwi and Māori organisations across the motu to stand together against the further imposition of legislation that enables this government to take control of thousands of tamariki Māori across the country.”

   https://tewhareporahou.wordpress.com/2016/10/09/hands-off-our-tamariki-an-open-letter/

   READ THIS – KIm is an outstanding wahine toa!!!

   “Key regulations aimed at preserving children’s connections to whakapapa and their culture are set to be dropped as part of a major shake up of New Zealand’s child welfare system. Kim McBreen explains why that’s terrible news for our most vulnerable Māori children.”

   http://thespinoff.co.nz/parenting/05-11-2016/racial-justice-and-the-child-welfare-system-hands-off-our-tamariki-is-a-movement-for-change/

   https://www.facebook.com/Hands-Off-Our-Tamariki-680110502158407/

   https://blog.greens.org.nz/2016/10/14/report-back-from-hands-off-our-tamariki-hui/

   Yes, send energy to support Standing Rock – then turn around and help this, help us Hands Off Our Tamariki movement – WE NEED YOU!
   • Rosemary McDonald 9.1

     5 November 2016 at 10:30 am

     marty mars….this issue is not so cut and dried as stated in the narratives in the various links.

     Yes…the ideal would be that at risk children are placed in culturally appropriate foster homes.

     Most certainly this was always the message given to us as foster parents when we were asked to care for battered, neglected and abused children who were not of our ‘culture’ by CYFs. Children who were Maori, Pasifika, Middle Eastern….

     It was always made quite clear to us that we were a last resort for these children, that foster homes of of the child’s cultural backgound would be much better than what we could offer….etc etc.etc.

     Not once…however tempting it might have been….did we ever tell CYFS to go take a flying f*#!k and find another placement for that child, or children, that ticked all the culturally safe and politically correct boxes.

     The immediate safety of that child, or children, always came first.

     To read that merely by accepting these children from ‘cultures other than our own’ into our family amounted to abuse is, well, downright bloody offensive.

     The only child we cared for (out of over 60) that had not been abused, not been neglected and had been taken into care under what we saw were prejudicial reasons, we fought tooth and nail against cyfs to have that child returned to his mother and the mother given the support she needed. Yes, that child was Maori…but that was incidental.

     Then we told cyfs to get lost…..

     However…

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74268361/faces-of-innocents-these-are-the-kids-weve-lost

     When the stupidly named Ministry for Vulnerable Children contracts out the foster arm of of it’s work….as has happened in the US and UK….there will be opportunities for hapu and iwi to be ‘supported’ to look after children in care….and I hope they organise and tender for these contracts.

     I would caution, however, that in the absence of a ‘culturally appropriate’ foster home….placement of the child with a safe and loving family of any cultural backgound would be infinitely better than risking adding another face to the NZ Wall of Shame.
     • marty mars 9.1.1

       5 November 2016 at 10:44 am

       I appreciate your experience and thank you for the great and hard work you have and still are doing – I also think indigenous peoples can talk about their experience, from their perspective and cultural position.

       There are so many historic and now (this one) contemporary aspects of ‘stolen generations’ for indigenous peoples everywhere that this issue is bound to cause raised energy and emotion – I don’t try to avoid that, it is part of the discussion.

       I support fully the Hands off our tamariki movement.
       • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.1.1

         5 November 2016 at 11:58 am

         The simple solution to culturally inappropriate foster care placements is, of course, to have a pool of culturally appropriate foster homes.

         If there are not sufficient culturally appropriate foster homes to meet the need….then the question the Hands Off Our Tamariki movement should be asking is “Why not?’

         If we, as pakeha, were constantly reminded that we were a last resort placement for non- pakeha children…why is it that cyfs failed to actively recruit culturally appropriate foster families?

         I know cyfs had/has access to and input from Maori advisers…so why was the next logical step not taken and this relationship with Maori not utilised to recruit and support more Maori foster families?

         Has HOOT got figures on the number of Maori social workers employed by cyfs? Have they investigated each case where Maori children have been taken into care? Have they got figures on the number of Maori foster families? Have they read the available information pertaining to each instance of ‘abuse’ of Maori either at the hands of their birth family or while in care? Are non-Maori foster carers more likely to ‘abuse’ Maori children in their care?

         I’m ‘ ‘ abuse….as merely giving sanctuary to an at risk child is not, despite the claims, abuse.

         There are so many unanswered questions here….
         • marty mars 9.1.1.1.1

           5 November 2016 at 3:03 pm

           “In the legislative overhaul for their new model, the Crown is removing two important clauses for Māori: one that prioritises Māori children staying within their hapū and iwi, and another that considers the effect of decisions on the stability of Māori children’s whānau, hapū and iwi.

           Labour supports the changes, with their spokesperson Jacinda Adern saying the moves are justified because of abuses of children in care of extended family. That was a sadly ignorant response. It is tragic whenever CYF places children in unsafe situations, including with unsafe whānau. It is an example of CYF making bad decisions for children, and why Māori want to be making those decisions ourselves. CYF’s bad practice is no excuse for removing provisions to protect children in the context of whānau. To make that argument is transparently racist – Māori cannot be blamed for the Crown’s bad decisions. Likewise, it is unbelievable that social workers cannot find safe and loving whānau within a child’s whakapapa. As Tariana Turia has said of her iwi “You can’t tell me that within 8000 people connected by our river, you cannot find someone to care for a child.” This is true of all our whānau and hapū.”

           http://thespinoff.co.nz/parenting/05-11-2016/racial-justice-and-the-child-welfare-system-hands-off-our-tamariki-is-a-movement-for-change/

           I think/hope those sections answer at least some of the questions you asked.
           • Richard Rawshark 9.1.1.1.1.1

             5 November 2016 at 3:10 pm

             Marty, why would CYF’s be tied to placing a child into a whanau environment that is not healthy either, Surely the solution is around changing the checking of whoever the child is rehomed too and if they do not fit the guidelines for a safe environment then they do not get the child?

             Is it a lack of laws? is it bad training? Why would Cyfs be forced into giving the child to family members if they do not meet criteria?

             or have I comprehended that wrong?
10. Tautoko Mangō Mata 10

    5 November 2016 at 9:36 am

    Chris Finlayson isn’t concerned – he says he’s satisfied with the way the Government Communications Security Bureau investigated itself. See David Fisher’s article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11742383
    Meanwhile

    So just this month alone, two key members of the Five Eyes alliance have been found by courts and formal investigations to be engaged in mass surveillance that was both illegal and pervasive, as well as, in the case of Canada, abusing surveillance powers to track journalists to uncover their sources. When Snowden first spoke publicly, these were exactly the abuses and crimes he insisted were being committed by the mass surveillance regime these nations had secretly erected and installed, claims which were vehemently denied by the officials in charge of those systems.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/11/04/three-new-scandals-show-how-pervasive-and-dangerous-mass-surveillance-is-in-the-west-vindicating-snowden/
11. Cinny 11

    5 November 2016 at 9:42 am

    Here’s an idea, offer free tertiary education for any careers on the skill shortage list, up date it as different career’s technology waxes and wanes. Employing Kiwi’s trained in NZ rather than having to look outside our country.
    • Stuart Munro 11.1

      5 November 2016 at 7:48 pm

      Better yet make industries pay to keep skills on the shortage list. Payment goes to training.
      • Cinny 11.1.1

        6 November 2016 at 12:04 pm

        interesting concept. I really enjoyed reading GR’s speech on The Future of Work Commission, clever, forward thinking ideas there.
12. Andre 12

    5 November 2016 at 9:51 am

    Interesting discussion of the the Dunning-Kruger effect (why incompetents think they’re awesome).

    http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/revisiting-why-incompetents-think-theyre-awesome/
13. Draco T Bastard 13

    5 November 2016 at 10:07 am

    Forget More Regulation: Make Corporations Serve the Public Interest

    As described in my previous column, I witnessed the process of corporations walking away from this contract to advance a systematic process of colonizing the world’s peoples and resources under corporate rule. For more than 20 years, I have been pointing out that to have a world that works for living people, the interests of living communities must take priority over maximizing corporate profits. That means corporations must be accountable to governments and governments must be accountable to people — real people.

    That means that corporations need to be accountable to the general public that they’ve divorced themselves from.

    PS – I linked to part three. Links to part one and two are at the top of the article.
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      5 November 2016 at 2:30 pm

      From part 2:

      As individual corporations grow in size, global reach, and political power, we see a corresponding shift in the primary function of national governments—from serving the interests of their citizens to assuring the security of corporate property and profits. They apply police and military powers to this end, subsidize corporate operations, and facilitate corporate tax evasion. They let corporations off the hook with slap-on-the-wrist fines for criminal actions. Rarely, if ever, do they punish top executives.

      We the People never voted to yield our sovereignty to transnational corporations. Nor was the corporate takeover a response to public need.

      And that’s exactly what we’re seeing in NZ – government ruling for the corporations and the rich.

      Such a thing has always resulted in the collapse of the society.
14. save nz 14

    5 November 2016 at 10:25 am

    Big Brother at the Libraries…

    Apparently library staff have been issued a corporate script to follow when library users ask what is going on, and to ask for ID to check if they are a journalist.

    No wonder Auckland Council say they can’t afford to money for libraries with our increasing population, they need the money for all the PR people and corporate googledegook speak writers to pay the wages of the people who write stuff to not let the public know what is going on, when they decide to cut ratepayers services!

    Thanks CEO Stephen Town and Phil Goff Mayor! The future illiterate community of Auckland thank you – while you are about it, try working out how it can cost $1 a day in library fines – a new initiative to drive customers away. The average book costs $25 – so it’s kinda excessive but maybe the council got in Wilson’s parking to consult with.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/316611/auckland-library-staff-given-script-to-face-closure-questions
15. The lost sheep 15

    5 November 2016 at 10:25 am

    NZ Leapfrogs Norway in World Prosperity Index for 2016

    ‘New Zealand is the world’s top-ranked country. Over the past decade it has consistently delivered a large prosperity surplus through the combination of a strong society, free and open markets, and high levels of personal freedom.’
    • Chuck 15.1

      5 November 2016 at 12:26 pm

      Seems like NZ is not such a horrible hellhole of a place after all…might have something to do with record immigration and kiwis deciding not to leave the Country.

      “As a measurement of prosperity, the Legatum Prosperity Index™ is unique. It gives a far truer picture of the life chances for the world’s population, and the performance of nations, than any Index of GDP alone could hope to.”
      • adam 15.1.1

        5 November 2016 at 12:53 pm

        I love how you are so delusional Chucky, is it that you are so selfish that makes you an idiot ?

        1 in 10 homeless, a minimum wage below a living wage, a generation forced into debt to get an education, a failing state service, broken food banks, full women’s refuges, a economy propped up by selling the china, systematic failure of the farming sector, dirty waterways, and all the time more austerity.

        Must be good to be as smug as you Chucky, but then again, I don’t think I could spend all day bending over to smell my own farts.
      • Richard Rawshark 15.1.2

        5 November 2016 at 1:15 pm

        I could make you all extremely rich chucky but the cost would be huge…

        More coals more opil more dairy more borrowing.. if you wish to mark doing well by these indicators.

        Could shut welfare, shuts down hospitals shut down police, we would all pay no tax and be rolling in it.

        The only difference between you and me chucky is where we draw the line of sense.

        Do you get it..

        It’s really actually easy to make a country rich, if your willing to do the acts to get there.
        • Chuck 15.1.2.1

          5 November 2016 at 1:28 pm

          Richard have you read the methodology behind the Legatum report?

          https://lif.blob.core.windows.net/lif/docs/default-source/publications/2016-legatum-prosperity-index-methodology-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=6

          There are nine pillars used to make up the index, economics being just one of the nine.
          • Richard Rawshark 15.1.2.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 1:48 pm

            I get 243 dollars a week from winz, I am unable to work on medficval note, had invalids, tried wrking as the government wanted lasted a while but nearly killed someone when I had an episode at work. Not willing to attempt again.

            On supported living won’t reinstate my invalids as I went to work.

            I pay out 212 a week on bills, that leaves 31 for power and food.

            what indicator of doing well should I realign too.

            [Expletive deleted, though I can see why you’d want to use strong language. TRP]
            • Richard Rawshark 15.1.2.1.1.1

              5 November 2016 at 2:42 pm

              I made considered effort deciding on a word, I thought appropriate to describe him and my feeling about the crap he says,, and you deleted it..

              grrrrr

              🙂
            • The lost sheep 15.1.2.1.1.2

              5 November 2016 at 2:53 pm

              what indicator of doing well should I realign too?

              Your individual situation sounds rough Rawshark, but In the context of a discussion about the World Prosperity Index, you would align your personal situation in NZ with your likely level of ‘prosperity’ in the other Countries on the list.

              My pick is you would be less ‘prosperous’ in most, if not all of them?
              • Stuart Munro …

                5 November 2016 at 7:53 pm

                You’re forgetting cost of living – NZ is super expensive. None of the supposed benefits of market liberalisation have been passed on to NZ consumers. And that’s where the index fails too. So it’s a paper success. Competent governments want genuine success.
                • The lost sheep …

                  5 November 2016 at 9:01 pm

                  Guess you didn’t read the report then….
                  • Stuart Munro …

                    6 November 2016 at 1:02 am

                    None of your crap is worth reading – we live in this economy – don’t try to lie to us about it.
            • Chuck 15.1.2.1.1.3

              5 November 2016 at 2:55 pm

              Fair enough Richard, I can understand why you feel less than enthused with things.

              All the best and hope the future improves for you.
              • Richard Rawshark …

                5 November 2016 at 3:15 pm

                Glad you understand, I see your side too, I see people doing well and wish them all the best, but I cannot help but feel victimized by you lot, I am vulnerable, it difficult for me to make a living by working.

                As I see it you judge society on how it treats it’s most vulnerable and sadly I think National hits the bottom of indicators for this reason, not for a prosperity index.

                Secondly you talk 9 pillars, well i’m no fool mate, if 4 of those poillars are exceeding everyone in the world by a great enough margin it’ll soak up the really bad ones..

                Data is only as good as the quality of the information you feed it.

                GIGO

                garbage in garbage out one of my first lessons in the 80’s on programming..
              • Red Hand …

                5 November 2016 at 6:41 pm

                There is too much to grab. Renovated 30s mansion Lucerne Rd, German cars, Omaha contemporary, time share Ohakune, King’s and Dio, family holidays in France and villas in “Tuscany”. Cool dogs and wife.
    • Stuart Munro 15.2

      5 November 2016 at 12:51 pm

      A surplus so great it has been achieved by borrowing.
    • Barfly 15.3

      5 November 2016 at 1:02 pm

      Right wing think tank praises Right wing government……why is this news?
16. Tautoko Mangō Mata 16

    5 November 2016 at 11:27 am

    On 5 November 1881 a force of almost 1600 Armed Constabulary and volunteers, led by Native Minister John Bryce, invaded Parihaka. The Māori inhabitants, numbering about 2,000, put up no resistance. Instead they greeted Bryce and his men with bread and song. They were dispersed and Te Whiti and Tohu were arrested. The soldiers then systematically wrecked the settlement, and Māori tradition speaks of brutality and rape.

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/people/erueti-te-whiti-o-rongomai-iii

    Auckland Peace Action are celebrating Parihaka Day with a Peace Action Conference 10 am-3:30 pm today at the Auckland Central Library.
17. The Chairman 17

    5 November 2016 at 12:01 pm

    Little is no salesman.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/labour-to-businesses-upskill-your-workers-or-pay-up-2016110510

    He couldn’t even tell us how much the levy will be.
    • BM 17.1

      5 November 2016 at 12:31 pm

      The Man is a fool, I’m actually starting to feel a bit sorry for all you left wingers.

      Must be so demoralizing.
      • The Chairman 17.1.1

        5 November 2016 at 1:04 pm

        “Must be so demoralizing.”

        Incredibly.
      • Draco T Bastard 17.1.2

        5 November 2016 at 2:25 pm

        Why is it that the RWNJs who always say that the market rules then gets upset when the market is applied to them?
    • Chuck 17.2

      5 November 2016 at 12:35 pm

      Does Little ever learn?? he has just opened up Labour to a broadside from National on more than one front.

      Auckland is full of small business owners, Labour needs to win Auckland over. By signalling a new tax / levy on hiring migrants (cost could be anything, as Little does not even know what it will be) is a huge face palm.
      • The Chairman 17.2.1

        5 November 2016 at 1:19 pm

        Releasing snippets of policy leaves it open for the opposition to fill the vacant narrative with negative speculation, quickly scaring or turning voters off the proposal.

        Little calling it a levy won’t stop a number from seeing it as another tax.

        This will startle the horses, hence details are crucial in ensuring they remain in control of the narrative and bring businesses along.

        Seems Labour hasn’t learnt a thing.
        • Chuck 17.2.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 1:42 pm

          “Releasing snippets of policy leaves it open for the opposition to fill the vacant narrative with negative speculation, quickly scaring or turning voters off the proposal.”

          Agree, politics 101.

          Even if Little said the levy / tax will only apply to business owners that employ more than 10 people for example…or the ratio of apprentices to qualified workers would need to be xyz, or it will be capped to a maximum of $x per year etc… etc…
      • Stuart Munro 17.2.2

        5 November 2016 at 2:04 pm

        Small business owners mostly won’t be affected – they’ve always had to look their workers in the eye after all. It’s the sleazy assholes who’ll be puckering up – and a good thing too.
        • The Chairman 17.2.2.1

          5 November 2016 at 3:32 pm

          Little didn’t really clarify whether or not small businesses that don’t employ employees will also be impacted.
        • Colonial Viper 17.2.2.2

          5 November 2016 at 8:25 pm

          Small business owners mostly won’t be affected

          What proportion of small business owners won’t be affected?

          Do you know? Does Little know?
    • KJT 17.3

      5 November 2016 at 1:05 pm

      About bloody time.
      This is simply removed a subsidy to poor employers by giving them trained staff for nothing.
      Why should a business which meets it’s true costs have to subsidise those which cannot meet them.
      That is not even good capitalism.
      • adam 17.3.1

        5 November 2016 at 1:07 pm

        But the selfish brigade don’t under stand capitalism, they all read Ann Rand.
        • The Chairman 17.3.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 3:33 pm

          With the end consumer meeting the cost, it’s user pays capitalism.
      • The Chairman 17.3.2

        5 November 2016 at 1:25 pm

        As with most business costs, one can be sure businesses will attempt to pass it on.

        Therefore, it will be the end consumer who will eventually meet the cost.
        • save nz 17.3.2.1

          5 November 2016 at 1:39 pm

          @ Chairman Well the cost of a levy on employers stopping them bringing in cheap labour, so that a local has the chance to get the job sounds like a good idea. Since reports of $20k bribes being given to employers to give a migrant or student residency, how can local’s compete with that?

          I’m sure the good people of Havelock North agree that NZ is one of the best places to live, as long as you survive the dirty water, everything’s peachy.
          • The Chairman 17.3.2.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 3:25 pm

            As we don’t know what that cost/levy will be, it’s far to premature to speculate that it will deter businesses from bringing in immigrant labour.

            Moreover, as that cost would most likely be passed on, it may result in not being a deterrent at all.
        • Draco T Bastard 17.3.2.2

          5 November 2016 at 2:27 pm

          Well, ATM, it’s the workforce meeting it through education fees.
          • The Chairman 17.3.2.2.1

            5 November 2016 at 3:43 pm

            Merely changing from one form of user pays to another.
    • BM 17.4

      5 November 2016 at 1:48 pm

      When Andrew Little stated labour wanted to make working with small business- a priority, I’d guess not many thought this is what he meant.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/264695/small-business-labour's-priority

      Train people or be taxed?, that’s small business friendly 🙄

      Seriously who comes up with this shit.?
      • Richard Rawshark 17.4.1

        5 November 2016 at 2:20 pm

        See shit stirring because you never read it, selected the easiest route to an argument by misinforming the readers here. Who like me will instantly correct you.

        However I won’t because your a fkn state actor and you damn well know what he actually said and you certainly know what the policy actually meant., don’t you?
        • weka 17.4.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 5:37 pm

          “See shit stirring because you never read it, selected the easiest route to an argument by misinforming the readers here. Who like me will instantly correct you.”

          I haven’t followed the link, but if what everyone is saying here is true, BM’s comment looks like his classic troll and run. He does this a lot.
          • Richard Rawshark 17.4.1.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 5:54 pm

            I’m damned if I can find the link sadly I read so many sites and takes on the same subject it gets lost.

            However this morning I read that specifically where a company imports an immigrant “skilled” worker they would pay a tax if they were also not going to somehow take up training in that area as well.

            It’s almost brilliant in it’s subtely and a win win, but they are failing to see that, once the person is trained to do the same job we can hire local, employment cost goes down theoretically for the company.

            HOWEVER the days progressed and actually I am seeing other wording that looks rather like what BM said really early in the day that makes it broader.

            Hence I stopped commenting that way early today until I can get some clarity on the details of that particular, prospective policy.
            • Richard Rawshark 17.4.1.1.1.1

              5 November 2016 at 5:55 pm

              IE the story’s changed, god knows,? i’m looking into it.
      • Draco T Bastard 17.4.2

        5 November 2016 at 2:28 pm

        Train people or be taxed?, that’s small business friendly

        Yep, it is – by supporting the people already here into higher paying jobs means that the small business is going to continue to have customers.
        • Richard Rawshark 17.4.2.1

          5 November 2016 at 2:45 pm

          It only effect those companies that import workers instead of training kiwi’s for the same jobs.

          How many SB’s do you know that hire skilled foreign workers?

          Not many, if any..
          • Draco T Bastard 17.4.2.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 3:20 pm

            Exactly.
          • The Chairman 17.4.2.1.2

            5 November 2016 at 3:41 pm

            “It only effect those companies that import workers instead of training kiwi’s for the same jobs.”

            Little said it would be employers that don’t invest in training employees that would face the new levy.
            • Richard Rawshark 17.4.2.1.2.1

              5 November 2016 at 3:59 pm

              yeah that.. god, brains not too shit hot ATM, Dr’s this week my memory is going.

              oh no, um I read in the actual release it was for companies that specifically hire foreign Skilled workers and don’t train internally.

              it will be but a small percentage affected. I’ll show you in a sec hang fire
              • The Chairman …

                5 November 2016 at 4:16 pm

                Yeah I seen that (a report that stated it was for companies that hire foreign skilled workers).

                However, watch the accompanying clip (link below).

                Little’s highlighting of the fact that a number of employers are currently benefiting from skilled employees (other local employers have invested in) and how this new levy will help spread the cost out, implied all businesses (not only those that import labour) that failed to invest in training would face a new levy.

                http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/labour-to-businesses-upskill-your-workers-or-pay-up-2016110510
                • Richard Rawshark …

                  5 November 2016 at 4:34 pm

                  Confusing.. have to say. :\

                  I need some time to go through it all without making rash judgements.

                  But if all businesses had to pay for training, that’s not going to come across well. So i’d be surprised they would force another burden on top of WFF, Kiwisaver extended maternity leave etc.

                  Somethings wrong when you have to have all these , adjustments, surely it’s getting too bloody complicated to manage.
    • dv 17.5

      5 November 2016 at 7:58 pm

      So what are the size of the tax breaks then?
18. Richard Rawshark 18

    5 November 2016 at 1:18 pm

    There’s like about 8 RW posters here taking over..if they stay i’m gone.

    Really active when they need to be, like polls come out etc..all of them,.. and I don’;t care if they are your mother.

    I don’t go to whaleoil or kiwiblog and spend my days pissing people off. These guys are fucking tools.. the lot of them, how they have so much spare time yet are RW flies in the face of common sense and appears more..state actor..

    get fucking rid of them.
    • BM 18.1

      5 November 2016 at 1:52 pm

      Settle down there Richard.

      The difference of opinion is what makes this site interesting.
      • Richard Rawshark 18.1.1

        5 November 2016 at 2:01 pm

        For you, BM, you like cheap thrills me I want to improve our chances not spend the days argueing crap with the likes of the MANY state actors national sends over.. so you settle down B, how about fucking off to whaleoil and talking with like minded tools.
        • BM 18.1.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 2:09 pm

          I don’t like whale oil, kiwi blog’s not too bad, bit over the top with the Muslim hate comments though.

          I prefer The Standard out of the three.
          • Richard Rawshark 18.1.1.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 2:15 pm

            hmm so really your just an argumentative closet leftie..right..i get it.
            • weka 18.1.1.1.1.1

              5 November 2016 at 2:49 pm

              lolz.

              Best way to mitigate the RW damage is to spend more time talking to people who are talking about the things you want to discuss.

              I think the RWers that don’t troll are a good addition to the site, it would be boring without them. I do get sick of the continual diversion away from conversations about what we need to do, but I think that’s on the lefties as much as anything (or the argumentative ones at least).
            • Whispering Kate 18.1.1.1.1.2

              5 November 2016 at 4:31 pm

              I think Richard the heat in the kitchen is too much for BM on Whale Oil and Kiwiblog so he chooses this site instead. We are kinder on him and his comments for whatever they’re worth.
              • BM …

                5 November 2016 at 6:17 pm

                Lol, whaleoil is a bore, it’s full of sycophantic dullards and moderation set at a level you’d see at a primary school.

                Kiwiblog isn’t bad but is over run with repetitive USA election arguments and my sky pixie is more awesome than your sky pixie comments.

                It’s got a lot better with the ability to post directly underneath a comment instead of it just being tacked onto the bottom of the post, made having a conversation impossible.
            • BM 18.1.1.1.1.3

              5 November 2016 at 6:19 pm

              I’m more a centrist so enjoy reading stuff from multiple view points.
              • In Vino …

                5 November 2016 at 7:29 pm

                Bollocks. It has long been Right Wingers’ policy to claim that they are Centrist when they know bloody well they are not. The few who really believe it are ignorant of history.
                • BM …

                  5 November 2016 at 8:00 pm

                  So you’re saying you have to be either left or right?

                  No middle ground.
                  • Richard Rawshark …

                    5 November 2016 at 8:04 pm

                    BM to be centrist you would
                    A, NOT support everything Nastional including it’s poll results
                    B, say things positive as much as negative about labour
                    C, occasionally(i’m even giving you leeway) say something bad about National

                    You get a D

                    D for does none of the above.
                    • BM …

                      5 November 2016 at 8:15 pm

                      I don’t support everything National does.

                      Also the reason you don’t see me saying positive stuff about Labour is that they’ve moved too far left, they’re no longer centrist.
                    • Richard Rawshark …

                      5 November 2016 at 8:29 pm

                      So your pretty much Victor Meldrew of the Standard.

                      You’ve got nothing positive to say about anything..

                      ok I get it.
                  • In Vino …

                    5 November 2016 at 9:25 pm

                    No, BM, I am saying that you do not get to define what is Centrist. From the endless bilge that you have supplied to date, you are Right. Not correct, but definitely Right.
                    You are a right-wing troll claiming to be Centrist. You are not Centrist. That is it. Eat it.
      • Richard Rawshark 18.1.2

        5 November 2016 at 2:17 pm

        PS no where do I see a sign here that says welcome, this is a site for the right to make arguments with the left.

        It asks for healthy debate.

        opinion: shit stirring about the polls is not healthy debate, it’s shit stirring.
        • Psycho Milt 18.1.2.1

          5 November 2016 at 3:54 pm

          PS no where do I see a sign here that says welcome, this is a site for the right to make arguments with the left.

          However, you do see a comment box at the bottom of the thread with the invitation “Leave a comment.” You could try asking the moderators to amend it to “Those Richard Rawshark approves of, leave a comment,” but I can’t see them going for it.
          • Richard Rawshark 18.1.2.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 3:57 pm

            By all means leave a comment, state actor.. please ..

            Just don’t bait all the time would you, like some examples?, try reading this thread, and get back to me if your still confused.

            https://thestandard.org.nz/go-home-roy-morgan-youre-drunk/
      • Stuart Munro 18.1.3

        5 November 2016 at 5:49 pm

        No mate – your empty prejudices are a waste of space.
19. Richard Rawshark 19

    5 November 2016 at 1:24 pm

    The farmers finally succeeded townies are lower than there live stock when it comes to water rights..

    http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/farm-water-usage/ar-AAjUHJ0?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=iehp
    • halfcrown 19.1

      5 November 2016 at 2:16 pm

      Grahame Sydney one of NZ leading artists and his opinion on fast disappearing Central Otago. But hey it doesn’t matter if central is being fucked like other area’s of NZ. There is a fucking dollar to be made. So fuck the country fuck your water fuck the wildlife as long as I am all right Jack making dollars. What Grahame Sydney failed to tell. was this irrigation of central is just a continuation of fuck ups National have done for ages. Muldoom with his Sink Big (another financial disaster under the National government’s prudent fiscal stewardship sarc/) destroyed some of the worlds finest orchards along Clutha Valley with the Clyde Dam.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/countrylife/audio/201822566/golden-valleys-turn-green
      • Richard Rawshark 19.1.1

        5 November 2016 at 2:21 pm

        Dude my step fathers name was Mulvena, Central Orchids, and all that I know too well.
        • Richard Rawshark 19.1.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 2:23 pm

          Dairying was a novelty in Otago when in was young dairying as in milk production. Grazing for beef here n there, can’t actually recall any, but there would have been one.

          Now look at the place..

          saying that my stepfather was early in water dyke irrigation, he got them to lay it around the farm near Oamaru, but those days it was for the crops not dairying..
          • halfcrown 19.1.1.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 3:57 pm

            I love central and could easily move to Oamaru. We won’t though we left our run in too late and we have family and friends where we live who would be left behind. Haven’t been down there for a few years, and I do feel another Up Central trip coming on. After reading Grahme Sydney article, as a photographer I am grateful that we have some large Grahame Sydney type photos of the DRY brown Maniototo, and Danzies Pass and St Bathans and Naseby, and…… On my bucket list I want to go and photograph the curling at Ranfurly. The whole area with Dunedin beats that fucking Auckland hands down any day.
            • Richard Rawshark 19.1.1.1.1.1

              5 November 2016 at 6:25 pm

              Lived Dansy’s pass right at the top on wooly Sanders farm(yeah what a name wooly) then he got a farm nearer Hilderthorpe, back in the day, god that place is magical(dansy’s pass), I went there a few years ago and there is like a small stream that runs along the pass road and from the road the water was pristine and you could see with your eyes the trout in the pools. God I hope it’s still unspoilt land.. But no way could there be a dairy farm up there surely..
              • halfcrown …

                5 November 2016 at 6:31 pm

                Thanks for correcting my spelling of Dansy’s pass I have always spelt it like that. Should have looked it up
                What a great place to live.
                • Richard Rawshark …

                  5 November 2016 at 6:38 pm

                  It’s truly beautiful high country go and enjoy..

                  Take a gold pan and get yourself a tiny bit of gold from the stream, you won’t make much but you will find some I did when I was young.
20. joe90 20

    5 November 2016 at 2:09 pm

    Rust never sleeps.

    OTD in 1956 these "pro-Russian forces on holiday" with tanks "from a shop" entered Budapest to stop a "western coup" pic.twitter.com/Ws6mGVBGzn— Darth Putin (@DarthPutinKGB) November 4, 2016

    We claimed we were reversing a "fascist revolution" of hooligans financed by the "imperialist West". Imagine such a bullshit excuse today😂— Darth Putin (@DarthPutinKGB) November 4, 2016
21. Draco T Bastard 21

    5 November 2016 at 2:21 pm

    Labour Party’s Future of Work Commission final report.

    Summary
    Full report
22. save nz 22

    5 November 2016 at 4:40 pm

    The face of globalism. Yes you could have your jaw broken by your Korean washing machine… apparently now Samsung are recalling washing machines that may start exploding and firing off parts on high spin cycle….
    • Barfly 22.1

      5 November 2016 at 5:50 pm

      My Samsung auto washer is 13 years old and not missed a beat so far
      • Richard Rawshark 22.1.1

        5 November 2016 at 6:27 pm

        Barfly…. DO not, I repeat do not approach.. kindly step back from fate.. carefully..don’t look away..keep going, now RUN.

        My LG is less than six months.., if it sings to me one more time it won’t make 7
        • Garibaldi 22.1.1.1

          5 November 2016 at 6:43 pm

          Richard R ….. I love your contributions and your enthusiasm and general train of thought. You have certainly kept today’s OM alive and kicking. In your rush to get your message out I can forgive your grammar etc. Just one word of advice , please don’t burn your self out! Cheers mate.
          • Richard Rawshark 22.1.1.1.1

            5 November 2016 at 7:30 pm

            Thanks G, yep i’m in the middle of a high, I know it, I hope the crash is not sudden but it usually is, that’s why I really felt for Jay Jay..it freaking kills ya heart. sadness

            I had to drop off a half dose of my anti D from 75 to 37.5 and it’s thrown me a curve adjusting.

            Better to go with it though than fight it, i’ll settle down shortly I hope.
    • Psycho Milt 22.2

      5 November 2016 at 8:18 pm

      The face of globalism.

      Your comment is missing the bit that explains how a faulty appliance is due to globalism. I’m old enough to remember when most appliances were built here, and the quality was nothing to feel nostalgic about.
      • Richard Rawshark 22.2.1

        5 November 2016 at 8:33 pm

        No agreed in some respects, but that is still a generalization there were good and bad, I suppose anywhere, that’s true nature of business.

        However times have changed, processes, education, skills, the same would not be true today, in fact the opposite

        I can give a great example of kiwi brilliance “the Briton” Motorcycle.

        We have some talent, but when you cannot compete on a level playing field with cheap labour nations your screwed.

        But for fairness we also made the trekka and my god that was shocking bad.
23. Richard Rawshark 23

    5 November 2016 at 7:26 pm

    firstly this morning I read
    Canadian army investigate mysterious ‘pinging’ sound coming from sea floor

    then tonight this
    Diver may have found ‘lost nuke’ missing since cold war off Canada coast

    OMFG IT”S ALIVE AND TICKING!!!!
    • Richard Rawshark 23.1

      5 November 2016 at 8:01 pm

      No ones commented on that.., come on.. it’s a NUKE and it’s making noises all of a sudden..
      • Andre 23.1.1

        6 November 2016 at 6:17 am

        Go back and carefully re-read both articles. Check out the locations of the pinging and where the “nuke” are. Also pay close attention to whether the “nuke” was in fact complete with all the bits needed to go boom.
        • Richard Rawshark 23.1.1.1

          6 November 2016 at 7:32 am

          Hey Andre, I should have said this morning I read the headline..

          I never read the articles ..just towards the end of the day I saw the other headline and made 1+1=3
24. Richard Rawshark 24

    5 November 2016 at 9:00 pm

    Fireworks+pets=scared animals angry owner.

    Music on loud drown it out, seems to settle them down, time for some “The band.”

    I have the good stuff though, the bootlegs etc.
    • Visubversa 24.1

      5 November 2016 at 9:46 pm

      Thanks – Great movie. Seen it half a dozen times.
25. Richard Rawshark 25

    5 November 2016 at 10:46 pm

    Labour to businesses: Upskill your workers, or pay up

    Newshub.

    What do you think guys, you think they’d use that sort of threatening language headline at a National policy announcement.?

    We have to work three times harder than National this time, and that there, is why.
26. Richard Rawshark 26

    5 November 2016 at 11:01 pm

    Night all, i’ll leave you with this conundrum.

    Q: How many John Keys does it take to tell the truth.

    I’ll give you the answer tomorrow.

    Nighty night.
    • Richard Rawshark 26.1

      6 November 2016 at 7:46 am

      A: None.

      A John key cannot tell the truth.
27. weka 27

    5 November 2016 at 11:36 pm

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all comments, link postings etc about the US election under the dedicated US Election Discussion Post here.]

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