Open mike 06/01/2010 to 08/01/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 6th, 2010 - 30 comments
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Topics of interest, announcements, general discussion. The usual rules apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

30 comments on “Open mike 06/01/2010 to 08/01/2010”

  1. Jenny 1

    The nazis would have loved this technology.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/3203438/FBI-role-in-Big-Brothers-sharper-eyes-ears

    Most to the nazi’s spying on their citizens (apart from the use of paid spies and phone taps) was limited to paper files. Whenever the nazis invaded a new territory the first thing they did was take control of all the central paper data bases. Apart from police files, which they used to identify their political opponents. By being able to access the medical files from hospitals they were able to identify Jewish citizens, as well. Which allowed them to murder of millions of completely innocent people.

    How many more could they have identified and murdered if this technology had been available then.

    The potential of this type of intrusive surveillance is a threat in it’s self.

    This makes a lie of Police Association vice-president Stuart Mills claim “If they’re not committing criminal offences, there shouldn’t be any concern.”

    As recent New Zealand history shows, our police and intelligence forces are not above putting their paid informers into people’s bedrooms. New Zealand spies in the police’s pay have shown a particular interest in peoples private and perfectly legal sex lives, and relationships. The only possible use for seeking such information would be in it’s value for pressure and blackmail.
    No one has ever been made accountable for this sort of spying. How much easier it will all be, to indulge in this sort of despicable behaviour now.

  2. Zorr 2

    Anyone else notice that 11 months in to his sentence, Emery is up for parole already?

    I am usually not a punititive justice kind of guy, but this person killed a 15 year old kid over some paint and is going to get to be out of prison less than a year after doing so? Some days I just want to scream… x_x

  3. Morgs 3

    Yup, Its a disgrace. It is not entirely uncommon for a person convicted of manslaughter to be released so early though.

    In my opinion Emery is guilty of murder. The fact that he grabbed a knife then gave chase to the tagger is murderous intent to me. I suppose the Jury were of the “serves them right” mentality – the sorts who value a fence more than a human life.

    • i cant believe that this guy has got away with a violent murder,.
      then of course he has religion which seems to excuse people the most dispicable act of violence.
      I believe that Emery is a homicidal maniac . Only the most cold blooded killer could chase a young boy, stab him to death then go home and watch TV with his family;
      All this with the blessing of Garth McVicar , has anyone noticed not a word of complaint from McVicar and his loud mouth group. Why am I not surprised!!.

      • felix 3.1.1

        Word of complaint? How about words of support and understanding? According to McVicar, it’s all the victim’s fault. What does he have to say about Emery?

        “….a decent hard working citizen is facing a murder charge because of his frustration over this issue.”

  4. schrodigerscat 4

    Interesting and illuminating view of investment and return in healthcare from National Geographic

    http://blogs.ngm.com/.a/6a00e0098226918833012876a6070f970c-800wi

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      necessary comparison figures

      US: Free-Market Solution
      $7290 per capita
      Life expectancy of ~78 years

      NZ: State Solution
      $2510 per capita
      Life expectancy of ~80 years

      The bit that that graph doesn’t show is that in the US only 5/6ths of the population have health insurance and even if someone there is insured there’s no guarantee that they’re going to be covered. I find it amazing that Rodders and ACT still get away with telling us that privatisation of the health “industry” will make it cheaper and better when the fact is that it’s far more expensive and much, much worse.

  5. jcuknz 5

    Morgs …. The jury had access to all the evidence, not just the couple of things you mention.
    To somebody who has been ‘in trouble’ all their life 11 months is nothing, to somebody who has been a good citizen for perhaps fifty or more years, eleven months is a severe penalty.

    Imprisonment is partly revenge retribution for the rest of us for the bad act, but also is supposed to rehabilitate the person. Somebody who ‘looses it’ for a short time at suffering the outrage of his property being defaces by a mindless idiot with no social responsibility doesn’t need much more than the penaltry of the period prior to sentance and a short sentance … at least I assume the jury knowing the facts of the case thought that way

    As I see it the outrage lasted from the moment he found his fence defaced through until the cold realisation of what he had done came home to him. Both he and the defacer have my sympathy for different reasons. There but for the grace of God go I.

    • Zorr 5.1

      I appreciate the sentiment of “There but for the grace of God go I” but I cannot understand the usage here. You are essentially saying that if someone did something to you as petty as graffiti that you would risk losing your temper and killing them.

      In all honesty with regards this case, the kid was 15, with his peer group, high and drunk – and ended up tagging a guys garage. I would find it difficult to believe that most of us have not ended up in similar positions in our early lives where we have performed stupid acts while on some form of substance (be it marijuana or alcohol or something else) and often it is referred to as “character building” or “part of growing up” or “the folly of youth”. None of us would actually have expected to have been murdered for such actions (quite reasonably I feel) yet here you are saying that Emery is perfectly entitled to a short sentence for such an action because he is older, whiter and richer than most petty thugs and his victim has been depicted as a brown “youth in trouble”.

      I may not know all the details presented to the jury but, following that logic, neither do you. We only have the publicly available information and, to my mind, that evidence is pretty damning. If Emery gets out after serving only 11months of what was already considered a light sentence, I can only hope that this example is used in future to further strengthen our system. You may feel comfortable knowing that the hard crims spend large amounts of time in our jails. I feel distinctly uncomfortable knowing that our white collar ragers only spend very short times in them.

      • logie97 5.1.1

        JCUK. As far as I understand it, juries use the evidence to establish guilt. News to me that they determine the sentence – thought that was the judge’s job.

      • prism 5.1.2

        captcha – citizen
        The line from a song “It takes a worried man to sing a worried song” just came to mind. If someone has been concerned, worried then anxious then annoyed then angry for some time the next step can be decisive. They can treat something apparently minor as a part of a major harrassment or long-term attack.
        That I think is how a retaliation more violent than the provocation deserved can happen, and how it can be understood.
        Everybody learning how to be good ‘citizens’ to each other would reduce this.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      Somebody who ‘looses it’ for a short time at suffering the outrage of his property being defaces

      Is a mindless idiot and we need protecting from him. He should be in jail for the rest of his life.

  6. grumpy 6

    Things are hotting up in the Southern Ocean. Sea Shepherd have spotted the whalers with a secret 3rd ship, while the only person in Nz who supports the whalers (and sometime contributor to this site), Glen Inwood has been chartering planes to try and spot Sea Shepherd for his Japanese masters.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/3209484/Secret-ship-confronts-whalers

    Go Paul Watson!!

    • jcuknz 6.1

      It seems that they have got a bloody nose for their irresponsible behaviuu … and the Japanese have rescued them as good seamen would. I don’t support either whaling or the dangerous practices the protest ships have been engaging in.

      • Tigger 6.1.1

        So how would you stop whaling if you’re opposed to it? Clearly nothing else is working…

        • gitmo 6.1.1.1

          Perhaps they should take a leaf out of Minto’s book and stand outside at the tennis screeching at Japanese competitors/spectators that they have blood on their hands.

  7. Draco T Bastard 7

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10612540

    Not much appears to have changed since a survey by Consumer New Zealand at the end of 2008 showed 29 per cent of New Zealand’s beaches, lakes and rivers had bacteria levels so high they were deemed unsafe by the Ministry for the Environment.

    So much for clean and green.

    • felix 7.1

      I dunno, sounds pretty green. Definitely not clean though.

    • burt 7.2

      Perhaps we just know jack shit about what really is safe and what is not. I’d drink the water from any NZ river (*1) before I drank the water some people drink everyday in some countries. Same with swimming in the sea.

      *1: Excluding waterways that are highly contaminated with industrial waste.

  8. jcuknz 8

    A few days ago I was being rubbished, gently as the way of this blog rather than that of others, about my suggestions that workers need to work with management and vice versa.
    In the States one of the most militant and arogant unions was the UAW. With the demise of much of the American auto industry the union is now working with management .. sadly as I see it simply to survive … such a pity it couldn’t have come about out of common sense.

    Still the NYT report is http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/business/06uaw.html?th&emc=th

    • Bill 8.1

      So much that that NYT article glosses over or omits. Here’s a perspective on the UAW, GM, US Government and their intertwined history for your concideration.

      http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/21927

      And I wasn’t gently rubbishing you a few days ago by pointing out that management and labour cannot truly cooperate because their relationship is one predicated on power differentials. I was pointing out a reality.

      If you are serious about cooperative workplace cultures then vertical divisions of labour must be done away with. Put another way. Cooperation relies on substantive democratic structures and measures. Hierarchies and democracy cannot co-exist. We have ample historical examples that highlight this.

  9. Tigger 9

    Guess it’s not a ‘Maori’ flag after all…
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1001/S00007.htm

  10. Ministry of Justice 10

    The race based tennis protest was a breach of the Human Rights Act.

    Part 2 Unlawful Discrimination.
    63(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to use language (whether written or spoken), or visual material, or physical behaviour that—(a) Expresses hostility against, or brings into contempt or ridicule, any other person on the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national origins of that person;

    (2)The areas to which subsection (1) of this section applies are— … (b) Employment.

    Should the law Halt All Racial Protests or should the law be changed?

  11. prism 11

    The Middle East war follows the Vitnamese pattern with weary soldiers and callous military command killing off civilians and not being sure which ones were dangerous combatants, and an extra now is random killings by pilotless drones that are a futuristic killing machine like something out of a nightmare film.

    Blackwater, the terrorist-fighting mercenaries who have to think like them to fight them and then what’s the difference, has changed its name. No it wasn’t to redwater, it was something more inoccuous sounding, rather more corporate. Are they listed on the stock exchange? This is great business, it is like the space race, the USA government invests in capital with a ‘blue-sky’ new venture and businesses fasten on and feed off it.

  12. Your reply to the Emery debate disturbs me . How can you justify the killing of a young teenager who was playing up like many teenagers do. And as for your support of McVicar and his nasty gang well you are welcome to them. They are a two faced foul lot of bigots . Aotearoa would be better without them .

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