When the New National Party (NNP) undresses itself in private, it is the Real National Party (RNP), the same as it was when it put on its latest NNP clothes.
The Labour Government was criticised widely for "selling" its programmes poorly, especially 3 Waters.
""We're very worried that they seem to think there's something that needs to be changed. And we're not seeing what they're trying to fix at this stage. We don't understand why they need to do this," he said."
This though, from NZEI Te Riu Roa president Mark Potter, is recent and was said in response to this NACTNZF Government's planned changes to the sex education curriculum.
I guess the same people who lambasted Labour for the poor sales job, will be clamouring to decry the present Governments poor communications.
"A lot of it is very conspiracy-based thinking, and lots of claims about what schools are supposed to be doing that they just aren't. Some very untrue statements being made about what children being taught. So we are wondering, who are they pandering to with this kind of move?"
My guess is that this is largely due to the No Debate stance around gender identity ideology. That's why we don't know what is going on, and it's why it's ended up playing out on social media among people that are often conservative, reactionary, or have abandoned the left and a committment to progressive values.
My guess is based on watching exactly this dynamic play out in the UK and the US as well as other countries. GII (gender identity ideology) was rolled out in schools without consultation, and people who tried to ask questions about it were called bigots and shut down. That of course shut up the progressives who had concerns, because ostracisation via accusations of bigotry is a very strong tool among left liberals. The right, centrists and apolitical people care nearly as much and the result is that they are now in charge of the narrative, and in places like NZ that have a RW government and No Debate, they are in charge of policy and legislation now too.
One of the things that is happening is that the right get to redefine not just GII but all of sex and sexuality education, and of course they're going to do that conservatively, because that is their values.
This is an utter failure by the left. We cannot in any way complain about NACTF not being forthcoming with information, when the left has been running No Debate and ostracisation for years.
There is some hope. In the UK, despite a Tory government there is also a strong grassroots gender critical feminist movement (GCF). Those women and men as allies span the whole spectrum of society from MPs and academics to mums and working people, who are socially liberal and who generally support trans people, but want limits on things like women's spaces and transitioning of children.
So there is a tempering there of the push from the right. This is what should be happening in NZ. In the UK women and men lost jobs and careers over this, but stood up anyway. Fewer have done that in NZ, and we don't have the same kind of grassroots activism culture, so it's harder. It's leaving the power with the more conservative and reactionary people.
The best thing the left could do right now is stop ostracising GCFs, and allow an open and wide debate about the issues that matter to people. There is no way to win progressive gains if we don't bring people along, and there is no way to win a war that seeks to remove the rights of women and children. We're in a stalemate. I don't expect the left do this, I expect them to carry on with the own goals until either NACTF fall apart or we are thrown into the next major crisis (climate, economic, oil).
This is the worst possible time for the left to be failing to get to grips with the culture wars, but I think the base cause is the same as the crises, neoliberal capitalism and fear.
But more importantly thank you for making me aware of the No Debate stance. I had sensed this approach but not been able to understand or articulate it.
I felt it some years back when I realised that there had been a major shift in trans rights in particular and that many considered there now to be a default setting that couldn't be questioned.
I wondered where the hell it had come from and if I had been asleep because I didn't recall any wide societal discussion or debate. It was like someone had lifted the arm on record player and we'd skipped a track on an LP.
And like Dorothy said, we weren't in Kansas anymore.
the whole centralise away from the provinces thing …
I think this is an over-simplification; they were trying (!) to increase (!) local/community input & oversight and to create the benefits of a centrally coordinated network with economics of scale. They failed, obviously, partly because they lost control of the narrative quite early on. The rest is history. IMO.
"The Tribunal Panel Judge Nicolle sitting with Non-Legal Members Ms Sandler and Ms Breslin found that both Ms Meade’s regulator and her employer had subjected her to harassment related to her gender-critical belief when SWE threatened her with fitness to practise proceedings and sanctioned her for misconduct, and then WCC suspended her on charges of gross misconduct before issuing a final written warning. By the time the case was heard, both the regulator’s sanction and the employer’s warning had been withdrawn, but Ms Meade had been suspended from work for a year and bullied into silence on the subject of proposed reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, the importance of safe single-sex spaces for women and related subjects.
This is a landmark decision. It is the first time a Regulator and an Employer have together been found to have been liable for discrimination relating to gender critical beliefs".
“Did the actions of the regulator and employer predate the final Forstater judgment?”
No, it didn't.
UK Guardian 21 June 2021
Maya Forstater: her gender-critical views of a researcher who lost her job at a thinktank after tweeting that transgender women could not change their biological sex are a protected philosophical belief under the Equality Act, a judge-led panel has ruled.
JUDGMENT OF 8TH JANUARY 2024
WIN IN THE EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNAL – MS R MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND
e.g.
As against her employer, WCC:
3. The on-going refusal to lift the Claimant’s suspension in August and September 2021, in January 2022 and in February 2022 or at any time thereafter and despite requests from the Claimant to do so;
4. An investigation report which was hostile in tone and content, served on the Claimant on 6 December 2021;
As against her Regulator, SWE:
2. Being sanctioned by SWE’s Case Examiners on 8 July 2021;
3. The failure of SWE to set aside the Case Managers’ decision in September 2021 when presented with the evidence in support of the Claimant’s application for a review;
"[The American family] picnic on exquisitely packaged food from a portable icebox by a polluted stream … they may reflect vaguely on the curious unevenness of their blessings."
JK Galbraith
We seem to be headed the same way, given our leaders' desire to worship at the shrine of the economy. Where will your grandchildren fish, swim or paddle a canoe?
"Australian miner sees few barriers to exploiting $8b Central Otago gold find"
"It also told investors that it had a clear pathway to obtaining a mining permit, advising them that a “new pro-mining government” had been place in New Zealand since November."
I predict activists will stop it happening. Higher confidence than usual because of the people with money who stopped the Wanaka Airport expansion and the people that live in the area being against it also probably having money. That combined with a very strong climate case that will bring out activists. Also, it's a rallying point.
Many people, including myself, fought against any jets at Wanaka airport because the flight path was right over town and at low altitude.
One of the flight paths for Tarras airport will take it over Hawea and Hawea Flat but at such a height that the sound will be mitigated-it is 29km from Tarras Airport to Hawea Flat, further to Hawea..
Many people in Queenstown/Frankton want that airport closed because of plane noise which is certain to increase in the future. It is also recognised as a dangerous airport to land/take off and the runway is too short to permit wide body planes-Tarras will cope with wide body planes.
The land under Queenstown airport is probably worth $1.5 billion and is 75% community owned so closing the airport would give the QLDC a major windfall. The land under the airport will be able to be developed in a manner that provides for the future…university…hospitals….schools…council offices….affordable housing … etc etc.
Some business people will scream about losing Queenstown airport but many in the population will be happy to see it go.
oh yeah, I'm aware that some in Queenstown are keen. But they need to sort out their own problems, not pass them on to other people/places.
One of the flight paths for Tarras airport will take it over Hawea and Hawea Flat but at such a height that the sound will be mitigated-it is 29km from Tarras Airport to Hawea Flat, further to Hawea..
what does that mean? Will they hear the planes or not?
There are lots of people in Central Otago, even in Queenstown, who think there should be limits on growth. For obvious reasons. You'd think Queenstown of all places would get that.
The miners spruiking this scheme sound very optimistic. The regional council is no doubt all for it and will probably keep environmental restrictions to a minimum if the promoters promise to employ a few locals as navvies.
But where will they put the mine tailings and other refuse? Te Aroha residents will tell you what can go wrong (taxpayers had to foot a $15 million cleanup bill for the Tui mine because the miner went bust and had paid no bond).
Google "Lessons to be learnt from toxic legacy", Waikato Times, 2013.
The story till now. A coalition policy of removal and replacement of the gender, sexuality, and relationship-based education guidelines (guidelines were introduced in 2020 by then-associate education minister Tracey Martin, who was a New Zealand First MP).
Last year
Post Primary Teachers' Association acting president Chris Abercrombie said schools needed more information from the new government.
The union representing primary school teachers says there still has not been any consultation or guidance from the Government over planned changes to the sex education curriculum, a few weeks out from the school year starting.
Potter said so far, there had been very little indication from the Government on what it wants changed in the guidelines, given the coalition agreement also called for a replacement.
So far clear enough.
NZEI Te Riu Roa president Mark Potter said they had been developed by specialists in that area, as well as educational professionals, and were designed to be age-appropriate for each stage of children's growth.
He is replying to this from Luxon last year
we want a well defined curriculum agreed to by experts that actually makes sure that the content is age-appropriate, that parents have been consulted, and importantly that parents have an ability to withdraw from the education as well.
The last bit is surprising as withdrawing children is something parents can do now
Labour's education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said parents already had the option to withdraw their children from classes.
Both Potter and Tinetti said schools have already developed their curricula for 2024, which would have been developed with their communities.
That is, the government did not legislate changes in the 100 day plan and so the year would go ahead with existing policy.
But schools would need time to make the changes, and consult with parents in time for 2025.
The urgency is related to development a replacement for 2025.
Someone else can do a post on developing a replacement as per the criticism of existing policy from Emeritus professor Sue Middleton
Emeritus professor Sue Middleton wants the guidelines replaced because she disagrees with how gender is defined under them.
The definition is: "Gender is an individual identity related to a continuum of masculinities and femininities. A person's gender is not fixed or immutable".
Middleton believes gender is not a matter of identity but is rather a matter of biological sex.
"Most of us say we don't have a gender identity; we have a sex and we may be according to the stereotypes, be more masculine or more feminine. But that's not in the identity category, it's a quality of our personality and that's fine."
But Middleton did not want all the guidelines thrown out, she said sex education needed to be about more than biological reproduction.
Meanwhile, Katie Fitzpatrick (Senior Research Fellow at the University of Auckland, New Zealand) said there was fear around gender that she thought came from a lack of knowledge.
"Children learn about gender in all kinds of environments from which colours belong to whom and the gender binary is very well established. I think people questioning that, which is not a new thing, some others get nervous about that. We want to open up that conversation rather than shut it down."
She said there needed to be more respectful, meaningful conversations about gender.
I'm not sure what is weird there. This was wholly predictable. I put a comment above under Robert's post about the Gender Critical aspect being central to everything in that. The left gave the right and open door to attack all sex/sexuality education.
Let's just hope there are some in NACTF who aren't completely insane as well and we end up with a more socially conservative but still liberal curriculum rather than something ultra right. I don't know the MPs well enough to know what is most likely.
Also, no fucking point in developing something in the community if No Debate is being run.
Raising the issue of needing more information while MP's (Minister and Cabinet) are at the beach and doing so as per the formation of a replacement policy for 2025.
The only immediate issue would be impact on the curriculum for 2024 if there was a withdrawal of the guidelines before there was a replacement.
PS Where changes are top down, the consultation is then between schools and parents.
The union representing primary school teachers says there still has not been any consultation or guidance from the Government over planned changes to the sex education curriculum, a few weeks out from the school year starting.
Potter said so far, there had been very little indication from the Government on what it wants changed in the guidelines, given the coalition agreement also called for a replacement.
A concern as to what happens if the 2021-2023 teacher practice is impacted by withdrawal of the guidelines this year (and if so, when), before they are replaced (not possible for 2024).
teaching the basics of biological sex, social aspects of sex, and sexuality, and not teaching children that it's possible and desirable to change sex would be a start.
a hard core RW conservative position would teach abstinence to teens as an example of illiberal conservatism. An out of control neoliberal position would prioritise gender identity over biological sex, and lie to children that bio sex can be changed and that this is a good thing (eg disabling surgeries and hormones).
I'm arguing what should be in the curriculum here. I'm pointing to a middle ground that might stop this being a complete disaster while the gender/sex conflict is being resolved.
…not teaching children that it's possible and desirable to change sex would be a start.
When did/will Kiwi teachers start "teaching children that it's possible and desirable to change sex"?
Teaching about the feminine-to-masculine spectrum of human identity and behaviours, and that some aspects of identity are changeable and/or not (pre-)determined by (immutable) biological sex, is OK, imho. My initial thinking was firmly binary, but posts and comments on TS have changed that.
Imho, most trans identities are natural – Kiwi society determines what are acceptable trans (and non-trans) behaviours, and that will continue to evolve.
there have always been gender non-conforming people, throughout time and place.
Gender Identity ideology is new.
Lots of gender critical feminists are gender non-conforming.
What is the feminine to masculine spectrum of human identity and behaviours? Is it based on gender stereotypes and gender roles? Are those roles meaningful outside of gender stereotypes?
One of the things that happens is some trans women believe that being a woman is having big breasts and wearing make up and such. Do you think that is anything to with being a woman?
What is the feminine to masculine spectrum of human identity and behaviours? Is it based on gender stereotypes and gender roles? Are those roles meaningful outside of gender stereotypes?
Not sure if this addresses your first question, but consider the idea that a few people exhibit a preponderance of exaggerated behaviours (stereo)typically associated with females (so represent a 'hyperfeminine' identity), a few people exhibit a preponderance of exaggerated behaviours (stereo)typically associated with males (so represent a 'hypermasculine' identity), and most of us exhibit a mix of less exaggerated feminine and masculine behaviours.
Imho, females who are naturally inclined to exhibit (some) typically masculine behaviours, and males who are naturally inclined to exhibit (some) typically feminine behaviours, can be examples of societal strength in diversity. Potentially incongruent combinations (of feminine or masculine identity/behaviour, and immutable biological sex) are personal, and best resolved (or not) on an individual basis – live and let live.
There’s nothing intrinsically male about XY chromosomes, testosterone, body hair, muscle mass or penises… Sex, like gender, is indeed socially constructed and can be changed
don't worry, it's bonkers and it's hard to believe. This is part of how No Debate has been so damaging. We didn't get to talk about this stuff, and now it's there and no-one can quite believe it.
I've just read this conversation and it confirms my suspicion Tinetti was being disingenuous in her concerns.
Y'all above have been discussing the gender aspect of the indoctrination education guidelines.
She put the spotlight on consent issues, which to the best of my knowledge, almost all of us can get to a general consensus on.
When it came to gender issues, like lots of folk who don't have a strong argument, she starts littering her korero with "conspiracy".
Blissfully unaware of the controversy around gender, so indoctrinated by ideology, she had to look up 'woke gender curriculum'.
Rest assured weka, being a GCF, you have merely been duped by a "imported culture war". So patronising, so condescending, and oddly familiar to those who found themselves on the wrong side of the state's Covid reaction.
I see the similarities with the pandemic resistors too, despite not agreeing with them on on some significant points. The condescension is just stupid.
I supported the idea of 3 Waters because it likely contained a policy of national water supply which frees the councils from the responsibility of managing their water supply so they can do more with managing infrastructure that the government do not concern itself with. As far as I'm concerned, the more nationalised/nationally shared resources we can get, we get better councils as a result.
We can get the councils to focus far more on local infrastructure instead of having to concern themselves with water maintenance and management if we can get around to nationalising water and electricity along with railways and if possible healthcare.
God, that could mean better cities! Better towns! More physically & sensorally accessible cities and towns in Aotearoa/NZ! 😀
All the draft Council budgets should come out for public consultation at the end of March.
So March through to June will be the window we have to show the relationship between water availability, water quality, water price, water ownership, and what our councils should do.
It's all on them now and it's what they all begged for.
Using the advertising approach of calling it "3 waters" was a mistake I think. Should have just called it "water infrastructure" or "drinking water, storm water and sewage services"
The disingenuous would have found "STOP water infrastructure!" or "STOP drinking water, storm water and sewage services!" slogans less useful.
True, it was the right that took advantage. But no need to make it easier for them (and yes, they would have come up with some vapid attack slogan regardless, I suppose)
If we can accept that shaman from all manner of cultures are able to shape-shift and become birds, panthers, lizards etc, then it must be that a male shaman could become a woman, yes?
it's the difference between imaginative and material reality. We can be shamans, but shamans still exist within the laws of nature. Shamans don't become panthers in material reality ie no-one can independently observe them as a panther. The problem isn't with material reality, it's that the west believes that material reality is god and that imaginative reality is either stupid or ok but needs to be put in its place. Sane cultures do both/and.
The gender/sex fight is over the definition of 'woman'. Many people believe that women = biologically female. It's simply not possible for humans to change from one biological sex to the other (there are some animals and plants that can, but not humans).
Other people believe that 'woman' is a feeling. So if a man feels like they are a woman, they can be one literally. This is obviously a nonsense in relation to biological reality, so the issue becomes should the needs of gender non-conforming men take priority over the rights and reality of women? And how should society manage that in terms of law, policy, resources etc.
My own view is that men as a class need to do the mahi of making it acceptable for men to be gender non-conforming so that they don't have to try and colonise women's culture. And support women to have our own politics, thanks.
So, we've paddled in the shallow end of indigenous cultures, such as those who have lived in Australia for tens of thousands of years, but we haven't really given ourselves over to the deeper parts of those cultures.
Goethe encourages deep-observation of plants in order to become the plant.
Holding tight the supremacy of material over spiritual is where we in the Western World are failing, is it not so?
Ursula LeGuin had much to say about this and she wasn't, I believe, joking 🙂
Goethe encourages deep-observation of plants in order to become the plant.
Yes, but we don't become a plant in material reality, right? What we do is develop a relational connection with the plant that shifts our consciousness. All very good.
What's not so good is trying to remedy the western overemphasis on material reality with pseudo-spirituality. I'm not being pejorative there, GII isn't a spirituality, but it has aspects of religion that are problematic as a belief system but very problematic when adopted as societal rules.
Here's one of the consequences of allowing dogmatic beliefs to override material reality,
You’re a 10yr old girl. One day you decide to use the toilet while you’re at the market with your mom.
You’re sexually assaulted at knifepoint by a man who’s six and a half feet tall.
You’re told he’s a woman and they call him a her in court
why would you put imagination in quotation marks? Doesn't that diminish the experience of understanding the land as our ancestor? If we understand imagination as being as important as material reality, there's no problem with understanding that some people experience the land as ancestor, is there?
Besides, science shows us that humans and plants share ancestry, so it's not too much of a stretch of the… imagination.
In what way do you believe that humans can become a plant in material reality?
Because imagination has a micro and/plus a macro meaning. Most use its micro form – I wanted to draw attention to the need for thinking more deeply about the word.
What do you mean by "material reality" (quoting from your comment.
"Some people" (again), scoff at the idea that a mountain could be anyone's great etc. grandfather, (in reality).
Who is right?
Are you suggesting multiple realities?
If so, could their not be a reality where men can be women, if their imagination allows it?
What are the micro and macro meanings of the word imagination?
What do you mean by "material reality" (quoting from your comment.
this is a great question, I will answer in a different comment.
What do you mean by reality there?
If so, could their not be a reality where men can be women, if their imagination allows it?
I thought I already answered this. In physical reality, no, it's just not possible. Men can pretend to women in physical reality but that's not the same thing.
If men can be women, then there is no such thing as biological reality, which is obviously nonsense.
If you mean can men be women in the imaginal realm, the problem here, in this context, is that we are now neck deep in an ideology that has powerfully influenced law, policy and society as if it were physical reality. This is both a lie, and it impacts on women and children. Women in particular have been told to shut the fuck up. We won't.
It's not possible to have the conversation about the imaginal realm until the people who want men to imagine themselves women stop trying to remove women's rights. Maslow's hierarchy of needs probably comes in at this point. Absolutely no way will support the progress of an ideology that comes at the expense of a 12 year old girl being sexually assaulted. It would be corrupt to do so.
"Some people" (again), scoff at the idea that a mountain could be anyone's great etc. grandfather, (in reality).
Who is right?
I'm less interested in determining who is right, than I am in exploring the chasm between literal thinkers, imaginative thinkers, and those of us that can think in both at the same time. I'd call it decolonisation of the western mind but that would create another set of communication problems 😉
how do you think I'm using the word imagination? Because I've been arguing to not diminish it as 'just imagination'.
Imagination is indeed an very powerful tool. All the more reason to not be in denial of material reality while using it. That's dangerous.
I think your views on your pet issue are limiting your … imagination 🙂
You haven't said how, but let me guess. You think that my position that men cannot become women is a limit of my imagination. I can imagine people imagining themselves as a panther, but if some dude or chick from Timaru was setting themselves up as a shaman who had a panther ally and was running workshops based on ripping off natives, at a $1000 a pop, I'd have some political critiques about that too. Both/and.
You say, "pretend", I say, "be".
We can pretend the mountain is our ancestor, or it can be.
sounds to me like you want to ignore material reality, the 12 year old girl who was sexually assaulted, and what women want. That's disappointing.
I didn't say anything about pretending to be a mountain. I don't see mana whenua relationship with their maunga in that way at all, so I'm asking you now to take a step back and consider that you are missing important aspects of what I am saying here.
I took some time to plant a dozen Japanese quinces and mull over something that's disturbing me and now, if I may…
…you wrote, "…sounds to me like you want to ignore material reality, the 12 year old girl who was sexually assaulted, and what women want. That's disappointing…."
Wtf???
"Material reality" – the topic of our discussion, and those examples you gave to show what specifically I am ignoring, seem way out of kilter to me. It's a "what about" set-up, isn't it? I made no mention of either/any of those examples, yet you've sheeted them to me and tarred me with the, "you haven't denounced" brush. This is what happened over the assaults during the Posie Parker protest; supporters of your position, your sisters in arms, charged me (and others) with failing to denounce actions that they found abhorrent. Is this the standard for putting forward a view (in this case on the nature of reality and the role of the observer) – a declaration of position on matters chosen by "your crew"?
It seems very strange indeed, to me. Perhaps there are others who baulked at this behaviour, I can't know.
Sorry to be freaking you out. Let me reread the thread and get my bearings on what has happened and come back to you and see if we can reconnect the conversation in a better way.
What do you mean by "material reality" (quoting from your comment.
Material reality in the gender/sex context refers to the stuff of the universe that exists and can be observed and interacted with but is fundamentally independent of human thought.
For instance, humans as a species reproduce via a sexual binary (female eggs, male sperm). There is no variant on that, it's an aspect of material reality that cannot be changed by human imagination. The only way to get a new human is by combining the stuff of the universe that is in the egg and in the sperm.
Even if we develop technologies that take us out of nature/evolution eg cloning humans, that still has to happen using the materials and rules of material reality. Our thinking might conceive of how to do that, but it still gets done with physical stuff.
I guess it's theoretically possible that at some point in the future, humans might be able to create a third sex. We're not even close to being able to think about how to that in real life, let alone grapple with the ethical issues.
So when people engage with plants, that exists in material reality, but they engage via non-material means… although in the case of Goethe, it's both/and, right? so let's say they engage with the plant via material and non-material realms, the person doing the engaging still has the physical body they were born with. That body doesn't acquire the capacity for photosynthesis for instance. Nor does she/he have physical roots that are in relationship with soil microbia.
So whatever else is going on with the process and experience, we can definitively say that the person doesn't not become a plant materially.
The reason this matters (haha) is that material reality is a really great thing! We do ourselves and the rest of nature a great disservice to be in denial of it. The denial of material reality is driving the great crises of the world. The disconnect from our innate spiritual relationship with nature is that too. But they're the same thing, not because they are the same thing, but because both exist as each and as one.
Sorry to go all esoteric there, but what I see happening often is people realising the west has lost the plot (mind/body split etc) and then they eschew material reality because Descartes said some stupid shit about it a while back. Why are we letting that unfortunate part of history drive our thinking?
(it's often observed the similarities between the great religions that sought to transcend the body, and GII which seeks likewise. Both hate women in our fantastically female and natural bodies).
"Material reality in the gender/sex context refers to the stuff of the universe that exists and can be observed and interacted with but is fundamentally independent of human thought."
Material reality must cover all contexts, surely?
In any case, what reality can you describe that is fundamentally different from human thought?
not sure what you mean by cover, but I chose to explain in that particular context because that's how the conversation started (and because I’ve read some excellent philosophical discussions about material reality arising from the sex/gender conflict). We can talk about material reality in lots of contexts, is that what you mean?
In any case, what reality can you describe that is fundamentally different from human thought?
everything that is not human exists in a reality that is independent from human thought. We can think about all the things, but when we are not thinking about them they still exist. I don't have to describe it, it just is.
I'm pretty sure my cat is either hunting rabbits or sleeping it off right now (or maybe doing some other cat thing), but whether I am aware of that or not, he's still out there doing it materially.
"The prevailing theory, called the Copenhagen interpretation, says that a quantum system remains in superposition until it interacts with, or is observed by, the external world."
Schrodinger was making the point that the system described by quantum mechanics appeared ridiculus. The description produced is a distribution of probabilities for what will be observed. But this discussion makes the assumption that there is a reality which is exactly what is then observed in any experiment. The key insight should be that there is some missing part from quantum mechanics which if added allowed the exact outcomes to be found. Maybe this is related to fully integrating gravity into quantum mechanics. Its also possible that the resolution of measurement is too great a barrier to such experiments.
The basic product of philosophy (including logic and math) doesnt have to be true or observable. Thats just a basic fact of (human) thought. So it's a further demand of science that any models rejected by experiment should also be discarded. The question here seems to be should politics be expected to be conducted on a scientific understanding of society? Maybe in future we could prioratise the political issues of which ever fictional character appears in the ACT parties political advertising campaign?
For sure. Myth, religion and reality are each/all story, especially for us/we humans.I've seen/worked with, humans who can understand the story at all – it's not a pretty sight. Story is, of course, entirely manipulable, hence we can find ourselves/are in the thrall of powerful storytellers.
"Fantasy"writers such as Le Guin and Tolkien, when speaking/writing from their deepest selves, do not say myth is "not reality", or magic is "fantasy".
For the truth of the matter 🙂 Read T.H. White's "The Sword in the Stone" and how Merlin teaches young Arthur the true nature of reality.
You can "believe" anything you chose to believe. Fortunately, these days you cannot require other people to believe the same things. Mystical stuff belongs with mystical stuff. It is not biological reality.
A big shoutout to Mels Barton and Greg Presland, Forest and Bird Waitakere, Te Kawerau A Maki and all the good folk of Waima in Titirangi Auckland for the consent conditions that forced Watercare to work so hard for their new pump station.
Hard fought and a great focus for civic environmental activism over the last 5 years,
It will supply water to approximately 300,000 Aucklanders, about 20 per cent of Auckland’s water.
In particular top score to the neighbourhood team for squeezing out $8.25 out of Waitakere to put to local biodoversity and conservation work. Looking forward to really sound preparation for construction starting 2027.
The Post-UMD poll finds 39 percent of Americans who say Fox News is their primary news source believe the FBI organized and encouraged the Jan. 6 attack, compared with 16 percent of CNN or MSNBC viewers and 13 percent who get most of their news from ABC, CBS or NBC. The poll finds 44 percent of those who voted for Trump say the FBI instigated the attack.
If Gharaman's medication is that severe on her judgement, why is she in Parliament making law? Shaw will need to give her a fair amount of sick leave while the prosecution goes through.
I reckons you can stick your attributes up your forum
[You’re obviously a troll who tries to be funny and belligerently displays the usual lack of honesty and integrity and as such, your comments are piss-poor. You’ve been warned before for trolling. No more warning – Incognito]
"First Husband Peter Davis wrote to the Herald on Tuesday accusing them of formenting happy mischief.
A senior journalist suggested to me “Formenting Happy Mischief” would be a better slogan for kiwiblog than the Herald. I'm inclined to agree.
I don't have a tagline for the blog I quite like the idea of using one supplied (indirectly) by Peter Davis!"
It seems to have become 'fomenting.' Whichever it is, it's a great opportunity for posters on that site to start the year flaunting their appalling attitudes.
And for Farrar to play D J Trump: "People tell me that …", reality and fact become established and the invitation to swim in the sewer and ignorance is made and accepted.
Golriz Ghahraman is no indication of us living in a scummy country sad and wretched. You go to Farrar to see that.
The word "happy" is entirely inappropriate for Farrar's pitiful blog, which is (unsurprisingly, considering its proprietor) almost entirely hateful and virulently racist. This writer, i.e. moi, used to hang out there on my occasional periods of exile from The Standard (H/T Lin Prent, weka, Incognito, and Te Reo Putake).
You did say the prosecution was going through. That might happen but it hasn't happened yet. Not that a detail like that stops a resident of Wānaka from the declaration.
So, Ad has (not to mention the nonentity R the Goodfellow) found her guilty regardless? Maybe no-one, including herself, was aware of the possible effect on her.
Either something went radically wrong for her, or she is the latest manifestation of DP. Whatever, I feel sympathy for her. She is a very intelligent young woman.
Innocent until proven guilty but if found guilty I hope she gets a conviction and that its the end of her career.
I'm bloody sick of politicians running around acting like the rules don't apply to them, the behaviour of MPs in the last year has been disgusting.
We've had MPs boast about trying to interfere in court matters, lying about getting rid of their shares to cabinet, resisting arrest, a former or current I don't keep track with the torys getting thrown off a plane and not being charged for it and now we have one allegedly shoplifting.
If she's guilty I believe all MPs as representatives of the public should face the harshest available punishment according to the law broken (laws that they write) if they break a law.
She gets paid boat loads and is just a list mp.
I hope it's all a beat up but the public is sick to death of our representatives acting like the laws they write don't apply to them.
It's a high pressure job but noones forcing anyone to do it, individuals who are burnt out can should step down.
Normal people don't have the options or the money or the resources these people do.
Kiri Allen was not charged with resisting arrest. Refusing to accompany is the one applying with driving a car offences (charged with careless driving).
The legal issue is covered in this story – I suspect she will lose given the type of incident and normal practice takes away the relevance of a lawyer etc.
Ad, I know I said I was taking a break, however, if it's MS, then please leave her alone on that topic.
It's never ever anybody's fault that anybody has a disability and it is not her fault that she has MS and there is a lot of value in having someone with a disability or sickness being in politics and its sphere than if there was nobody in politics with such a background.
We need more people with disabilities and sicknesses to be represented in Aotearoa/NZ politics, not less.
These are perilous times and a lot of lives are on the line. It's only fair that we have political representation regardless of the times we find ourselves in.
"… and there is a lot of value in having someone with a disability or sickness being in politics and its sphere than if there was nobody in politics with such a background".
Value lies in comprehensive research, consultation with advocates and appropriate consideration for those with sickness and disabilities.
The idea that representatives are required is flawed. Perspectives, and needs should be represented and that should be done by standard processes.
Given the experience of women on here, it is unlikely that many men have the capability of achieving "comprehensive research, consultation with advocates and appropriate consideration ".
However, relying on this to be rectified by including a female representative – who may also fail at the above – is a flawed notion.
nevertheless, if you argue that representation isn't needed, what would an appropriate process look like for say a group making decisions about women where that group was all men.
If those men – actually understood and gave due consideration to the needs of women – and effectively represented and advocated for them, then they are more effective than a group of women who do not.
The fact of being female – doesn't mean you are an effective advocate for women.
Any representative – while they may be exceptional advocates for a particular demographic also have to ensure that all other consitituents are represented as well. ie. a politician concerned about women's health, uses processes that serve specific health needs for men.
If those men – actually understood and gave due consideration to the needs of women – and effectively represented and advocated for them, then they are more effective than a group of women who do not.
I don't think anyone has suggested a group of women who don't understand or give due consideration to the needs of women, so that's the wrong comparison.
The comparison is between qualified women and qualified men, all other things being equal, would a group that included women do better for women than a group of men?
Any representative – while they may be exceptional advocates for a particular demographic also have to ensure that all other consitituents are represented as well. ie. a politician concerned about women's health, uses processes that serve specific health needs for men.
Sure, but that ensuring might be by recoginising the limits of one's own knowledge base and experience and making sure that the relevant experience and knowledge is included via people of the class being affected.
No-one can represent everyone all the time at the level required.
Men will never be as good as women at understand childbirth for instance. Yes, the women representing birthing women should have given birth and be qualified. And that makes them better at the job than men. I'm not talking individual exemptions to the principle here.
"The comparison is between qualified women and qualified men, all other things being equal, would a group that included women do better for women than a group of men?"
If the processes are robust, they should achieve the same.
If you have a definitive answer, then that part of the process should be improved.
The idea that representatives are required is flawed.
please explain how.
Perspectives, and needs should be represented and that should be done by standard processes.
using people with first hand experience is part of the standard processes. It doesn't preclude research, consultation and appropriate consideration, it adds to those things.
Meanwhile, across many sectors, we have seen that consultation with groups by people not of that group but who hold the power, leads to poor policy and outcomes.
In the disability area, an example would be town planning and the push towards cycling/walking and non-car spaces that pays lip service to disability and constantly gets it wrong. That is less likely to happen if people with disabilities were part of the planning process (and I don't mean the odd token person with a disability).
Having a disability in and of itself doesn't qualify, having an otherwise qualified person who also has a disability adds perspectives that are needed.
I'm not suggesting the processes are not flawed. They need to be improved to ensure that consultation, research and appropriate considerations are made. Advocates may be elected as representatives – all good – but should not be required for the processes to be effective.
Unfortunately, there are the usual political and administrative impediments to good representation. This can be addressed, with or without specific representatives.
I believe I've been pretty clear. Processes should exist, and be in constant review for improvement, that ensures the needs of all people are represented in policies and governance.
This allows full-time advocates to concentrate on those they advocate for, without the additional time costs and burdens that as political representatives they should devote to other groups.
Consultation with such advocates – should definitely be part of a comprehensive and effective process.
I don't think I have anything further to add. Unless you have something specific you wanted to ask.
They should already exist. It is apparent that if they do – they are inadequate. Have a look at who was consulted regarding policy at Sports NZ that would impact on women and girls in sports:
But if you are happy with inadequate, inefficient and ineffective processes as long as a token representative is in place, that's your call. I have no inclination to spend time attempting to change your mind.
I am myself a disabled person and I have had some experience in politics and I do not like that you think to exclude our bodies and minds by delegating our politics to some well-meaning people all the time. Allies matters, however, there's never a true substitute for authenticity. Sure, there's stinkers and pull-up ladderers in our group, however, that's par for the course for politics. We can't help these who would backstab us or destroy our gains. That's the risk. We should strive nonetheless.
There is nothing better than somebody who can understand and gets it completely and helps you to the degree that even allies cannot. Having agency and power to make your own future is not to be underestimated. It turns you from being a spectator to someone who can do what you think is best for better or worse.
Agency and the ability to execute our own political agenda is extremely vital. All successful political social/economic movements ever created has leaders, representatives and followers who has the authentic experience and lives that comes of going through that sort of experience.
What this tells me is that we still need more people who knows what it's like to be disabled and gets it and can work for us.
Allies are always valuable and are appreciated and should be treasured, however, one thing is clear, it's ultimately our lives that we should be in control of, not be controlled by others. Having ourselves being able to find a way to empower and make our life better means we will be more able to pull our weight to help you right back to make a better future for all.
That is what matters. Being able to be on a more equal basis with other people. We would be more able to make a more universal society where we can be more able to be more involved in all of our futures.
And – I was not talking about tokenism nor advocating for such. I am advocating for a fuller vision of disabled people being woven more into the fabric of our greater society. It was always implicit in my argument that disabled people with some prior knowledge of the matters affecting ourselves were going to be what I was pushing for. Tokenism was never the aim. That you think any of what I was talking about was going to lead to Tokenism is not what I’m aiming for with my arguments: I’m aiming for addition and participation and agency and ability to exercise our voice and power amongst many in our society.
Your arguments seem to imply that we don't place any value on expertise, only representation when I don't actually think that. Ultimately, I am saying that we need more representation in the halls of power with actual expertise and plenty of ability to wield such expertise on the same basis as able-bodied people who we are working with on our own affairs and lives.
Nothing about us without us is what we are saying basically. We need to have power and a say in our own future as disabled people so we can return the favour to everyone else.
“The woman has MS. Medications used to manage the symptoms of MS are a who’s who of brain breakers that can affect moral decision making.”
Speaking as someone who has a close friend with MS – this is deeply insulting. Medication side effects may affect your ability in a range of areas – however, your moral code is not one of them.
If she is indeed so affected by side effects of her medication, that she can't make rational decisions about every-day matters – then she does not belong in the high-pressure environment of the House of Representatives.
List of common medications used to treat MS here – cognitive dysfunction – let alone affecting moral decision making- is not listed as a risk factor for any of them.
As in many matters medical, it often helps to get a second expert opinion.
Maybe the medications that Ghahraman has been prescribed to treat her MS condition (diagnosed in 2018) don't adversely affect her cognition, and maybe the condition itself doesn't affect her cognition, but usually I'd prefer more than a single anecdotal claim (based on the experiences of one of Belladonna's close friends) about how MS and MS treatments can affect people, before coming to a conclusion – we're all individuals.
My reading now of the initial comment is that it was about cognitive impairment (from meds) that impact on ethical decisions, rather than the meds impairing ethics/morals.
This kind of poorly worded speculation potentially does a great deal of harm to all MS sufferers in the workplace. No one wants their boss to be thinking that their medication impacts on their ethics.
Nor, for the vast majority of MS sufferers (yet to see any evidence that it impacts any, but I'm willing to be convinced) – is there any impact of medication on their cognitive abilities or impulse control around decision-making.
People with MS already have a very hard row to hoe, with an 'invisible' disability. They don't need any added burdens arising from public misconception of the side-effects of the medication required to manage their condition.
Fair call B – the human brain is a complex beast, so it's possible that MS medications (or the condition itself) could impair decision making (judgement, cognition etc.), without affecting moral decision making.
Green MP shoplifting reports: What is Scotties Boutique? [11 Jan 2024]]
While there is not yet confirmation about what occurred, the Green Party said it was aware of the accusations and Ghahraman, who is seventh on the party's list, has been stood down from her portfolio positions while the facts were established and until the matter was "resolved".
…
The police said they received a report "about an incident" on December 23 and initial inquiries are being made. Yesterday police said they could not confirm if Ghahraman was the subject of a police investigation.
I don't know what Ghahraman did or didn't do at Scotties Boutique, why she did or didn't do it, whether her decision making was impaired and, if so, what might have contributed to the hypothetical impairment. Seems to be a lot of (pre)judgement given the apparent lack of facts.
SSRIs, SNRIs, and anticonvulsants are used in the management of MS symptoms.
Here, we investigated whether this hyperaltruistic disposition is susceptible to monoaminergic control. We observed dissociable effects of the serotonin reuptake inhibitor citalopram and the dopamine precursor levodopa on decisions to inflict pain on oneself and others for financial gain. Computational models of choice behavior showed that citalopram increased harm aversion for both self and others, while levodopa reduced hyperaltruism. The effects of citalopram were stronger than those of levodopa. Crucially, neither drug influenced the physical perception of pain or other components of choice such as motor impulsivity or loss aversion suggesting a direct and specific influence of serotonin and dopamine on the valuation of harm. We also found evidence for dose dependency of these effects. Finally, the drugs had dissociable effects on response times, with citalopram enhancing behavioral inhibition and levodopa reducing slowing related to being responsible for another’s fate.
Nothing about changing ethical behaviour. If you think it is not OK to steal (or cause pain to others, in your example), taking the MS drugs isn't going to change that ethical decision.
What may change is your appreciation of consequences for your actions. This is not ethics, it's risk/reward.
I'm curious how you think they do. Cognition can obviously be affected, but morality? Do you mean that cognition is impaired and this makes decisions more difficult, or do you mean people's sense of morality is altered?
Related to my own experience with how SNRIs and an anticonvulsant prescribed to treat neuropathic pain altered my decision making processes, no.
It's more a loss of impulse control and decision making abilities combined with a brain fade/blank page/forgetfulness thing. More than once I found myself having to return to a shop because I'd simply forgotten to pay. Driving was diabolical, too. I'd look right and see a car and know that I had to give way, look left, forget about the car on my right, and off I'd go. Multiple near misses until I gave up driving.
The other biggie was suicide ideation. For someone who'd never ever thought about taking their own life, being preoccupied with self harm was as scary AF.
Taking medication doesn't change your ethics. It may change your risk assessment (you don't perceive the consequences of your actions) – but if you think something is 'wrong' before you start your course of medication you'll still think it is 'wrong' while you're taking the drugs.
I stayed out of this discussion for a number of reasons, but ethical behaviour and moral judgement/moral decision-making can be affected by a wide range of medical (and non-medical!) conditions and treatments, incl. medication, obviously. Anyway, a person’s ethical values and principles are not as hard & fast as some (many?) seem to think.
Belladonna @ 15.1.2
I suffer from severe osteoarthritis and am on a 24 hour pain regime. The consequence of that regime – plus the pain I still have to endure – leaves me tired and absent minded. I have walked out of a shop a few times without paying and the assistant has had to call me back. Since I have to use a crutch to get around they seem to know it was not deliberate and there have been no problems.
I have no idea what happened to Gholriz Gharaman, but if she was under some stress from the drugs she has to take, it may have had a bearing on what happened. Certain drugs can have negative effects for some people but not others.
Anne, I agree that medication and long-term pain can cause absent mindedness or brain fog – but that's not what was being alleged here. The claim was that it can "affect moral decision making". Which is AFAIK, completely untrue – and deeply insulting to people with MS.
OK. I see where you are coming from. Perhaps the term "affect moral decision making" is not appropriate. People who are on drugs, including medically prescribed drugs, can sometimes act in a way which is not normal for them. Its possible this is what happened here. Time will tell.
You seem to have a friend for every occasion with respect to political discussion. It's quite remarkable.
Perhaps you could have a conversation with your friend about the affects a MS diagnosis has on mental health. How did your friend fare 1 year after diagnosis, 2 years? For instance, was it difficult to accept having their future potentially ripped away from them?
I believe everyone has a different experience of disease and medication and it seems to me you expect a lot from sufferers, and are being a bit mean about one particular sufferer, for political purposes.
For instance, was it difficult to accept having their future potentially ripped away from them?
That is the kind of comment which inclines me to believe that you have zero practical acquaintance with anyone with a long-term disability or medical diagnosis.
Fail to see in what way I was 'mean' about Ghahraman. I was pointing out that Joe90's claim that MS medication can "affect moral decision making" is bunkum. And dangerous bunkum, at that.
I am perfectly willing to believe (if and when there are some actual examples provided – which, so far, there have not been) that medication for MS can affect decision-making and/or risk/reward decisions. Certainly we see this as a side effect of treatment for other medical conditions. What it can't do is change people's ethics or morals.
"Frame up" implies there is no truth to the allegations. If that were the case, Ghahraman would have vigorously denied the allegation (possibly with an associated libel claim) – and been supported by the Green Party.
The current actions (refusal to comment, coupled with removal from her portfolios), imply that there is a case to answer.
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Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said “Since we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
A listing of 29 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 14, 2024 thru Sat, April 20, 2024. Story of the week Our story of the week hinges on these words from the abstract of a fresh academic ...
The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
Identifying the engine type in your car is crucial for various reasons, including maintenance, repairs, and performance upgrades. Knowing the specific engine model allows you to access detailed technical information, locate compatible parts, and make informed decisions about modifications. This comprehensive guide will provide you with a step-by-step approach to ...
Introduction: The allure of racing is undeniable. The thrill of speed, the roar of engines, and the exhilaration of competition all contribute to the allure of this adrenaline-driven sport. For those who yearn to experience the pinnacle of racing, becoming a race car driver is the ultimate dream. However, the ...
Introduction Automobiles have become ubiquitous in modern society, serving as a primary mode of transportation and a symbol of economic growth and personal mobility. With countless vehicles traversing roads and highways worldwide, it begs the question: how many cars are there in the world? Determining the precise number is a ...
Maintaining a safe and reliable vehicle requires regular inspections. Whether it’s a routine maintenance checkup or a safety inspection, knowing how long the process will take can help you plan your day accordingly. This article delves into the factors that influence the duration of a car inspection and provides an ...
Mazda Motor Corporation, commonly known as Mazda, is a Japanese multinational automaker headquartered in Fuchu, Aki District, Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. The company was founded in 1920 as the Toyo Cork Kogyo Co., Ltd., and began producing vehicles in 1931. Mazda is primarily known for its production of passenger cars, but ...
Your car battery is an essential component that provides power to start your engine, operate your electrical systems, and store energy. Over time, batteries can weaken and lose their ability to hold a charge, which can lead to starting problems, power failures, and other issues. Replacing your battery before it ...
In most states, you cannot register a car without a valid driver’s license. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. Exceptions to the RuleIf you are under 18 years old: In some states, you can register a car in your name even if you do not ...
Mazda, a Japanese automotive manufacturer with a rich history of innovation and engineering excellence, has emerged as a formidable player in the global car market. Known for its reputation of producing high-quality, fuel-efficient, and driver-oriented vehicles, Mazda has consistently garnered praise from industry experts and consumers alike. In this article, ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
“Our exporters should, therefore, be deeply concerned that the Fast-track Approvals Bill was not assessed for consistency with any of our free trade commitments prior to being introduced to the House,” says Gary Taylor, Chief Executive of the Environmental ...
NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff is calling on all political parties to support the new Member’s Bill from Labour’s workplace relations and safety spokesperson Camilla Belich MP that would ensure negligent companies are held accountable when their employees ...
A historian with an uncanny track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go very wrong for him. ...
A historian with a track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go wrong for him. ...
Ngaio Marsh House is one of Christchurch’s best kept secrets – and contains more than a few mysteries of its own.Trust Ngaio Marsh to leave more than a few mysteries scattered through her house long after her departure. For a start, there’s the curious concrete portal in the garden, ...
Appointment viewing has been lost to the mists of time, but memories of Montana Sunday Theatre can still be conjured by hitting play on a particular piece of classical music. “You’re not going to be able to sell it.” Over 30 years on, Karen Bieleski still recalls how the task ...
Performance Review King Luxon sat behind His massive polished oak desk. It is Performance Review time. There is a knock on the door. “Enter!” says the King. In steps Minister of Disabilities and Carer Pedicures, Penny Simmonds. “I can explain everything …” she begins. “Fine,” says King Luxon, pressing the ...
The pair opened their first fully collaborative exhibition, Nina for Flowers, last Saturday. Gabi Lardies visited their studio to find out who Nina is and what working together was like.‘It didn’t start out like, ‘This is a show about Nina,’” says Josephine Jelicich, gripping a thermos of peppermint tea. ...
Thank you, Dr Maximilian Oskar Bircher-Benner, for your brilliant invention. I’m another mid-20s Kiwi who had an OE last year. I hopped on my bicycle where France meets the Atlantic and cycled east. I pedalled through the Loire Valley, down rivers lined with willows and ancient wisteria-draped chateaus. I relished ...
Asia Pacific Report From France to Australia, university pro-Palestine protests in the United States have now spread to several countries with students pitching on-campus camps. And students at Columbia and other US universities remain defiant as campuses have witnessed the biggest protests since the anti-Vietnam war and anti-apartheid eras in ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)New Zealand Government’s Fast Track legislation. Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government ...
Tara Ward talks to presenter Naomi Toilalo about the new TV show that turns food waste into a three course feast. Naomi Toilalo is standing in the warehouse at Good Neighbour Tauranga, helping unpack the two-and-a-half tonnes of rejected food that will arrive at the community support hub that day. ...
Scout is our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Scout’s human, Avril, for her support. Dog name: Scout (named after the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird – she inherited the independent spirit ...
Megan Alatini takes us through her life in TV, including ‘terrible’ daytime TV, the class of Carol Hirschfeld and her most embarrassing TrueBliss moment. When she responded to a vague newspaper ad asking “do you have what it takes to be a popstar?” 25 years ago, Megan Alatini never guessed ...
A new exhibition in Wellington showcases the faces behind your local goods and services. Back in 1977, when I was a fine arts student at the University of Canterbury, I took a series of photographs of Christchurch shopkeepers. The photos were for a calendar – a project for my end ...
Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
Newsroom, home of satire. My long-running weekly satirical series The Secret Diary has moved to Newsroom and will appear every Saturday, with Victor Billot’s wildly popular satirical Odes continuing to appear every Sunday. Diaries, Odes – while serious political columnists toil at meaningful opinions and stroke their chins to an ...
My cousin Dylan and I spotted these big eels under the bridge that summer. We watched them lounging under the dark weed, facing into the flow of water, their mouths frozen open. Dylan and I couldn’t stop thinking about those eels. The night we went down to the creek, we ...
Tara Ward unravels the many nuanced layers of a cartoon about talking dogs.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. It’s not often an episode of a children’s cartoon has adults sobbing into their sleeves, but that’s exactly what happened this week when ...
Working as a doctor in developing countries to help communities achieve better health outcomes is nothing short of a life goal for Jessica Tater. The University of Otago medical student has her sights firmly set on joining the international humanitarian organisation Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) when she qualifies ...
There’s an island in the far reaches of Auckland’s territory, sitting off the tip of the Coromandel Peninsula, 30 minutes by air from the city or four hours on the slow boat. Aotea Great Barrier is off-grid, it has a population of fewer than a thousand people … and most ...
Asia Pacific Report An Australian author and advocate, Jim Aubrey, today led a national symbolic one minute’s silence to mark the “blood debt” owed to Papuan allies during the Second World War indigenous resistance against the invading Japanese forces. “A promise to most people is a promise,” Aubrey said in ...
Asia Pacific Report The Freedom Flotilla is ready to sail to Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. All the required paperwork has been submitted to the port authority, and the cargo has been loaded and prepared for the humanitarian trip to the besieged enclave. However, organisers received word of an “administrative ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
When the New National Party (NNP) undresses itself in private, it is the Real National Party (RNP), the same as it was when it put on its latest NNP clothes.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/rob-campbell-theres-a-desperate-hunt-on-for-the-mythical-nnp/A74EKBZFDNB27NKFGG5XG4YO2A/
That is a very good take from Mr Campbell..
It's a companion piece to the atlas post…
The Labour Government was criticised widely for "selling" its programmes poorly, especially 3 Waters.
""We're very worried that they seem to think there's something that needs to be changed. And we're not seeing what they're trying to fix at this stage. We don't understand why they need to do this," he said."
This though, from NZEI Te Riu Roa president Mark Potter, is recent and was said in response to this NACTNZF Government's planned changes to the sex education curriculum.
I guess the same people who lambasted Labour for the poor sales job, will be clamouring to decry the present Governments poor communications.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/506348/government-accused-of-conspiracy-thinking-in-changes-to-sex-ed
My guess is that this is largely due to the No Debate stance around gender identity ideology. That's why we don't know what is going on, and it's why it's ended up playing out on social media among people that are often conservative, reactionary, or have abandoned the left and a committment to progressive values.
My guess is based on watching exactly this dynamic play out in the UK and the US as well as other countries. GII (gender identity ideology) was rolled out in schools without consultation, and people who tried to ask questions about it were called bigots and shut down. That of course shut up the progressives who had concerns, because ostracisation via accusations of bigotry is a very strong tool among left liberals. The right, centrists and apolitical people care nearly as much and the result is that they are now in charge of the narrative, and in places like NZ that have a RW government and No Debate, they are in charge of policy and legislation now too.
One of the things that is happening is that the right get to redefine not just GII but all of sex and sexuality education, and of course they're going to do that conservatively, because that is their values.
This is an utter failure by the left. We cannot in any way complain about NACTF not being forthcoming with information, when the left has been running No Debate and ostracisation for years.
There is some hope. In the UK, despite a Tory government there is also a strong grassroots gender critical feminist movement (GCF). Those women and men as allies span the whole spectrum of society from MPs and academics to mums and working people, who are socially liberal and who generally support trans people, but want limits on things like women's spaces and transitioning of children.
So there is a tempering there of the push from the right. This is what should be happening in NZ. In the UK women and men lost jobs and careers over this, but stood up anyway. Fewer have done that in NZ, and we don't have the same kind of grassroots activism culture, so it's harder. It's leaving the power with the more conservative and reactionary people.
The best thing the left could do right now is stop ostracising GCFs, and allow an open and wide debate about the issues that matter to people. There is no way to win progressive gains if we don't bring people along, and there is no way to win a war that seeks to remove the rights of women and children. We're in a stalemate. I don't expect the left do this, I expect them to carry on with the own goals until either NACTF fall apart or we are thrown into the next major crisis (climate, economic, oil).
This is the worst possible time for the left to be failing to get to grips with the culture wars, but I think the base cause is the same as the crises, neoliberal capitalism and fear.
Thanks for the full names, Weka.
But more importantly thank you for making me aware of the No Debate stance. I had sensed this approach but not been able to understand or articulate it.
I felt it some years back when I realised that there had been a major shift in trans rights in particular and that many considered there now to be a default setting that couldn't be questioned.
I wondered where the hell it had come from and if I had been asleep because I didn't recall any wide societal discussion or debate. It was like someone had lifted the arm on record player and we'd skipped a track on an LP.
And like Dorothy said, we weren't in Kansas anymore.
I never felt they sold it poorly they where just up against cashed anti everything national and other assorted conservatives.
the whole centralise away from the provinces thing was always going to play badly. That they definitely didn't handle well.
I think this is an over-simplification; they were trying (!) to increase (!) local/community input & oversight and to create the benefits of a centrally coordinated network with economics of scale. They failed, obviously, partly because they lost control of the narrative quite early on. The rest is history. IMO.
Norman Finkelstein: "Who do you attack when you target a hospital? You're destroying the lame, the nearly dead, the sick and the newborn."
The days of "No Debate" are over.
"The Tribunal Panel Judge Nicolle sitting with Non-Legal Members Ms Sandler and Ms Breslin found that both Ms Meade’s regulator and her employer had subjected her to harassment related to her gender-critical belief when SWE threatened her with fitness to practise proceedings and sanctioned her for misconduct, and then WCC suspended her on charges of gross misconduct before issuing a final written warning. By the time the case was heard, both the regulator’s sanction and the employer’s warning had been withdrawn, but Ms Meade had been suspended from work for a year and bullied into silence on the subject of proposed reforms of the Gender Recognition Act, the importance of safe single-sex spaces for women and related subjects.
This is a landmark decision. It is the first time a Regulator and an Employer have together been found to have been liable for discrimination relating to gender critical beliefs".
https://www.colekhan.co.uk/news/uvzuy6kcrtb5lwg59pxbs44tqbeuj2
excellent. Do you know if the actions by the regulator and employer predate the final Forstater judgement?
“Did the actions of the regulator and employer predate the final Forstater judgment?”
No, it didn't.
UK Guardian 21 June 2021
Maya Forstater: her gender-critical views of a researcher who lost her job at a thinktank after tweeting that transgender women could not change their biological sex are a protected philosophical belief under the Equality Act, a judge-led panel has ruled.
JUDGMENT OF 8TH JANUARY 2024
WIN IN THE EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNAL – MS R MEADE V WESTMINSTER CITY COUNCIL AND SOCIAL WORK ENGLAND
e.g.
As against her employer, WCC:
3. The on-going refusal to lift the Claimant’s suspension in August and September 2021, in January 2022 and in February 2022 or at any time thereafter and despite requests from the Claimant to do so;
4. An investigation report which was hostile in tone and content, served on the Claimant on 6 December 2021;
As against her Regulator, SWE:
2. Being sanctioned by SWE’s Case Examiners on 8 July 2021;
3. The failure of SWE to set aside the Case Managers’ decision in September 2021 when presented with the evidence in support of the Claimant’s application for a review;
ODT, 10 Jan 2024: "High levels of toxic algae found in Waihopai river".
I wonder if Tourism NZ will feature that news on its website.
Whitebaiters net the Waihopai. Dog owners walk their pets along its banks.
kids swim in the Waihopai (or at least used to).
"[The American family] picnic on exquisitely packaged food from a portable icebox by a polluted stream … they may reflect vaguely on the curious unevenness of their blessings."
JK Galbraith
We seem to be headed the same way, given our leaders' desire to worship at the shrine of the economy. Where will your grandchildren fish, swim or paddle a canoe?
Hurrah!
"Australian miner sees few barriers to exploiting $8b Central Otago gold find"
"It also told investors that it had a clear pathway to obtaining a mining permit, advising them that a “new pro-mining government” had been place in New Zealand since November."
https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/350143245/australian-miner-sees-few-barriers-exploiting-8b-central-otago-gold-find
They will be able to ship the gold from Tarras International Airport….Tarras is going off.
are you in favour of the airport beside the Clutha?
Nope…I'm against Tarras airport on climate change grounds….but I predict it will happen because AirNZ and Qantas want it.
Once Tarras opens Queenstown airport will no longer be viable and will close.
I predict activists will stop it happening. Higher confidence than usual because of the people with money who stopped the Wanaka Airport expansion and the people that live in the area being against it also probably having money. That combined with a very strong climate case that will bring out activists. Also, it's a rallying point.
(I don't really predict the outcome because I hate making predictions, but I do think there will be substantial resistance).
Many people, including myself, fought against any jets at Wanaka airport because the flight path was right over town and at low altitude.
One of the flight paths for Tarras airport will take it over Hawea and Hawea Flat but at such a height that the sound will be mitigated-it is 29km from Tarras Airport to Hawea Flat, further to Hawea..
Many people in Queenstown/Frankton want that airport closed because of plane noise which is certain to increase in the future. It is also recognised as a dangerous airport to land/take off and the runway is too short to permit wide body planes-Tarras will cope with wide body planes.
The land under Queenstown airport is probably worth $1.5 billion and is 75% community owned so closing the airport would give the QLDC a major windfall. The land under the airport will be able to be developed in a manner that provides for the future…university…hospitals….schools…council offices….affordable housing … etc etc.
Some business people will scream about losing Queenstown airport but many in the population will be happy to see it go.
oh yeah, I'm aware that some in Queenstown are keen. But they need to sort out their own problems, not pass them on to other people/places.
what does that mean? Will they hear the planes or not?
There are lots of people in Central Otago, even in Queenstown, who think there should be limits on growth. For obvious reasons. You'd think Queenstown of all places would get that.
To the workshops of those great French jewellers …
… Tarras to Paris here we come!
The miners spruiking this scheme sound very optimistic. The regional council is no doubt all for it and will probably keep environmental restrictions to a minimum if the promoters promise to employ a few locals as navvies.
But where will they put the mine tailings and other refuse? Te Aroha residents will tell you what can go wrong (taxpayers had to foot a $15 million cleanup bill for the Tui mine because the miner went bust and had paid no bond).
Google "Lessons to be learnt from toxic legacy", Waikato Times, 2013.
Some summertime weirdness.
The story till now. A coalition policy of removal and replacement of the gender, sexuality, and relationship-based education guidelines (guidelines were introduced in 2020 by then-associate education minister Tracey Martin, who was a New Zealand First MP).
Last year
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503418/axing-sexuality-relationship-education-guidelines-would-be-huge-mistake-warns-co-writer
This year
So far clear enough.
He is replying to this from Luxon last year
The last bit is surprising as withdrawing children is something parents can do now
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/10/sex-education-govt-accused-of-conspiracy-based-thinking/
This is where it gets to the summertime wierdness
That is, the government did not legislate changes in the 100 day plan and so the year would go ahead with existing policy.
The urgency is related to development a replacement for 2025.
Someone else can do a post on developing a replacement as per the criticism of existing policy from Emeritus professor Sue Middleton
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503418/axing-sexuality-relationship-education-guidelines-would-be-huge-mistake-warns-co-writer
I'm not sure what is weird there. This was wholly predictable. I put a comment above under Robert's post about the Gender Critical aspect being central to everything in that. The left gave the right and open door to attack all sex/sexuality education.
Let's just hope there are some in NACTF who aren't completely insane as well and we end up with a more socially conservative but still liberal curriculum rather than something ultra right. I don't know the MPs well enough to know what is most likely.
Also, no fucking point in developing something in the community if No Debate is being run.
Raising the issue of needing more information while MP's (Minister and Cabinet) are at the beach and doing so as per the formation of a replacement policy for 2025.
The only immediate issue would be impact on the curriculum for 2024 if there was a withdrawal of the guidelines before there was a replacement.
PS Where changes are top down, the consultation is then between schools and parents.
sorry, still not following. Who raised the issue of needing more information? (apart from when it was raised last year).
Last year
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/503418/axing-sexuality-relationship-education-guidelines-would-be-huge-mistake-warns-co-writer
This year
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/10/sex-education-govt-accused-of-conspiracy-based-thinking/
is Potter politicking?
He's back at work, others are not.
A concern as to what happens if the 2021-2023 teacher practice is impacted by withdrawal of the guidelines this year (and if so, when), before they are replaced (not possible for 2024).
What do you define as a "more socially conservative but still liberal curriculum"?
teaching the basics of biological sex, social aspects of sex, and sexuality, and not teaching children that it's possible and desirable to change sex would be a start.
a hard core RW conservative position would teach abstinence to teens as an example of illiberal conservatism. An out of control neoliberal position would prioritise gender identity over biological sex, and lie to children that bio sex can be changed and that this is a good thing (eg disabling surgeries and hormones).
I'm arguing what should be in the curriculum here. I'm pointing to a middle ground that might stop this being a complete disaster while the gender/sex conflict is being resolved.
"teaching the basics of biological sex…" – biology class, surely?
"… social aspects of sex…" who will dictate what those are? Old folks? Religious folks? The community?
"…and sexuality…" ummm…isn't that in place already?
2. just use the curriculum basics we have already
3. yes. Did you miss the point of my comment?
When did/will Kiwi teachers start "teaching children that it's possible and desirable to change sex"?
Teaching about the feminine-to-masculine spectrum of human identity and behaviours, and that some aspects of identity are changeable and/or not (pre-)determined by (immutable) biological sex, is OK, imho. My initial thinking was firmly binary, but posts and comments on TS have changed that.
Imho, most trans identities are natural – Kiwi society determines what are acceptable trans (and non-trans) behaviours, and that will continue to evolve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_topics#Oceania
https://genderequal.nz/what-we-want/
https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terminology-and-definitions
there have always been gender non-conforming people, throughout time and place.
Gender Identity ideology is new.
Lots of gender critical feminists are gender non-conforming.
What is the feminine to masculine spectrum of human identity and behaviours? Is it based on gender stereotypes and gender roles? Are those roles meaningful outside of gender stereotypes?
One of the things that happens is some trans women believe that being a woman is having big breasts and wearing make up and such. Do you think that is anything to with being a woman?
Human societies are always generating new ideas. Time will tell whether the concept/ideology of gender identity becomes firmly established.
Not sure if this addresses your first question, but consider the idea that a few people exhibit a preponderance of exaggerated behaviours (stereo)typically associated with females (so represent a 'hyperfeminine' identity), a few people exhibit a preponderance of exaggerated behaviours (stereo)typically associated with males (so represent a 'hypermasculine' identity), and most of us exhibit a mix of less exaggerated feminine and masculine behaviours.
For example, "males on average are biologically predisposed to systemise, to analyse, and to be more forgetful of others, while females on average are innately designed to empathise, to communicate, and to care for others",
but "you cannot deduce the psychological characteristics of any person [just] by knowing their sex."
Imho, females who are naturally inclined to exhibit (some) typically masculine behaviours, and males who are naturally inclined to exhibit (some) typically feminine behaviours, can be examples of societal strength in diversity. Potentially incongruent combinations (of feminine or masculine identity/behaviour, and immutable biological sex) are personal, and best resolved (or not) on an individual basis – live and let live.
I don't; some people do. This televised statement has stuck in my mind much longer that I would have wished (over 20 years):
Society is continuously (re)constructed by of all kinds of women and men.
https://argumentswithfriends.substack.com/p/what-hutt-valley-high-school-is-teaching
don't worry, it's bonkers and it's hard to believe. This is part of how No Debate has been so damaging. We didn't get to talk about this stuff, and now it's there and no-one can quite believe it.
I've just read this conversation and it confirms my suspicion Tinetti was being disingenuous in her concerns.
Y'all above have been discussing the gender aspect of the
indoctrinationeducation guidelines.She put the spotlight on consent issues, which to the best of my knowledge, almost all of us can get to a general consensus on.
When it came to gender issues, like lots of folk who don't have a strong argument, she starts littering her korero with "conspiracy".
Blissfully unaware of the controversy around gender, so indoctrinated by ideology, she had to look up 'woke gender curriculum'.
Rest assured weka, being a GCF, you have merely been duped by a "imported culture war". So patronising, so condescending, and oddly familiar to those who found themselves on the wrong side of the state's Covid reaction.
I see the similarities with the pandemic resistors too, despite not agreeing with them on on some significant points. The condescension is just stupid.
I supported the idea of 3 Waters because it likely contained a policy of national water supply which frees the councils from the responsibility of managing their water supply so they can do more with managing infrastructure that the government do not concern itself with. As far as I'm concerned, the more nationalised/nationally shared resources we can get, we get better councils as a result.
We can get the councils to focus far more on local infrastructure instead of having to concern themselves with water maintenance and management if we can get around to nationalising water and electricity along with railways and if possible healthcare.
God, that could mean better cities! Better towns! More physically & sensorally accessible cities and towns in Aotearoa/NZ! 😀
All the draft Council budgets should come out for public consultation at the end of March.
So March through to June will be the window we have to show the relationship between water availability, water quality, water price, water ownership, and what our councils should do.
It's all on them now and it's what they all begged for.
En Marche.
Good to know… 😏
I'll look at my locality and see what I can do in it.
I encourage you all to do it too. 🙂
Using the advertising approach of calling it "3 waters" was a mistake I think. Should have just called it "water infrastructure" or "drinking water, storm water and sewage services"
The disingenuous would have found "STOP water infrastructure!" or "STOP drinking water, storm water and sewage services!" slogans less useful.
Wot uncooked said..
Three waters sounds like a new mineral water drink…
Meaningless pap..
3 Waters is an elegant and descriptive title.
It was polluted by the Right.
True, it was the right that took advantage. But no need to make it easier for them (and yes, they would have come up with some vapid attack slogan regardless, I suppose)
If we can accept that shaman from all manner of cultures are able to shape-shift and become birds, panthers, lizards etc, then it must be that a male shaman could become a woman, yes?
it's the difference between imaginative and material reality. We can be shamans, but shamans still exist within the laws of nature. Shamans don't become panthers in material reality ie no-one can independently observe them as a panther. The problem isn't with material reality, it's that the west believes that material reality is god and that imaginative reality is either stupid or ok but needs to be put in its place. Sane cultures do both/and.
The gender/sex fight is over the definition of 'woman'. Many people believe that women = biologically female. It's simply not possible for humans to change from one biological sex to the other (there are some animals and plants that can, but not humans).
Other people believe that 'woman' is a feeling. So if a man feels like they are a woman, they can be one literally. This is obviously a nonsense in relation to biological reality, so the issue becomes should the needs of gender non-conforming men take priority over the rights and reality of women? And how should society manage that in terms of law, policy, resources etc.
My own view is that men as a class need to do the mahi of making it acceptable for men to be gender non-conforming so that they don't have to try and colonise women's culture. And support women to have our own politics, thanks.
So, we've paddled in the shallow end of indigenous cultures, such as those who have lived in Australia for tens of thousands of years, but we haven't really given ourselves over to the deeper parts of those cultures.
Goethe encourages deep-observation of plants in order to become the plant.
Holding tight the supremacy of material over spiritual is where we in the Western World are failing, is it not so?
Ursula LeGuin had much to say about this and she wasn't, I believe, joking 🙂
Yes, but we don't become a plant in material reality, right? What we do is develop a relational connection with the plant that shifts our consciousness. All very good.
What's not so good is trying to remedy the western overemphasis on material reality with pseudo-spirituality. I'm not being pejorative there, GII isn't a spirituality, but it has aspects of religion that are problematic as a belief system but very problematic when adopted as societal rules.
Here's one of the consequences of allowing dogmatic beliefs to override material reality,
https://twitter.com/FreyaManslayer/status/1744524603257422208
you can click through the quote tweets to see other examples.
What I want to know is why the left is sanctioning an ideology into law, policy and society that enables this.
Le Guin did have some things to say about child abuse. She centred Therru in the later Earthsea books for really good reasons.
"Yes, but we don't become a plant in material reality, right?"
Wrong, but we'll need to explore the true meaning of "become" 🙂
Māori, I'm told, by some Māori, believe their maunga tapu is IN FACT their ancestor/gggggggggrandfather/mother.
Are we to dismiss that claim as "imagination"?
why would you put imagination in quotation marks? Doesn't that diminish the experience of understanding the land as our ancestor? If we understand imagination as being as important as material reality, there's no problem with understanding that some people experience the land as ancestor, is there?
Besides, science shows us that humans and plants share ancestry, so it's not too much of a stretch of the… imagination.
In what way do you believe that humans can become a plant in material reality?
Because imagination has a micro and/plus a macro meaning. Most use its micro form – I wanted to draw attention to the need for thinking more deeply about the word.
What do you mean by "material reality" (quoting from your comment.
"Some people" (again), scoff at the idea that a mountain could be anyone's great etc. grandfather, (in reality).
Who is right?
Are you suggesting multiple realities?
If so, could their not be a reality where men can be women, if their imagination allows it?
What are the micro and macro meanings of the word imagination?
this is a great question, I will answer in a different comment.
What do you mean by reality there?
I thought I already answered this. In physical reality, no, it's just not possible. Men can pretend to women in physical reality but that's not the same thing.
If men can be women, then there is no such thing as biological reality, which is obviously nonsense.
If you mean can men be women in the imaginal realm, the problem here, in this context, is that we are now neck deep in an ideology that has powerfully influenced law, policy and society as if it were physical reality. This is both a lie, and it impacts on women and children. Women in particular have been told to shut the fuck up. We won't.
It's not possible to have the conversation about the imaginal realm until the people who want men to imagine themselves women stop trying to remove women's rights. Maslow's hierarchy of needs probably comes in at this point. Absolutely no way will support the progress of an ideology that comes at the expense of a 12 year old girl being sexually assaulted. It would be corrupt to do so.
I'm less interested in determining who is right, than I am in exploring the chasm between literal thinkers, imaginative thinkers, and those of us that can think in both at the same time. I'd call it decolonisation of the western mind but that would create another set of communication problems 😉
"What are the micro and macro meanings of the word imagination?"
"That's just your imagination" as opposed to, "Imagination is the most powerful tool humans possess".
I think your views on your pet issue are limiting your … imagination 🙂
You say, "pretend", I say, "be".
We can pretend the mountain is our ancestor, or it can be.
how do you think I'm using the word imagination? Because I've been arguing to not diminish it as 'just imagination'.
Imagination is indeed an very powerful tool. All the more reason to not be in denial of material reality while using it. That's dangerous.
You haven't said how, but let me guess. You think that my position that men cannot become women is a limit of my imagination. I can imagine people imagining themselves as a panther, but if some dude or chick from Timaru was setting themselves up as a shaman who had a panther ally and was running workshops based on ripping off natives, at a $1000 a pop, I'd have some political critiques about that too. Both/and.
sounds to me like you want to ignore material reality, the 12 year old girl who was sexually assaulted, and what women want. That's disappointing.
I didn't say anything about pretending to be a mountain. I don't see mana whenua relationship with their maunga in that way at all, so I'm asking you now to take a step back and consider that you are missing important aspects of what I am saying here.
weka; you're freaking me out!
I took some time to plant a dozen Japanese quinces and mull over something that's disturbing me and now, if I may…
…you wrote, "…sounds to me like you want to ignore material reality, the 12 year old girl who was sexually assaulted, and what women want. That's disappointing…."
Wtf???
"Material reality" – the topic of our discussion, and those examples you gave to show what specifically I am ignoring, seem way out of kilter to me. It's a "what about" set-up, isn't it? I made no mention of either/any of those examples, yet you've sheeted them to me and tarred me with the, "you haven't denounced" brush. This is what happened over the assaults during the Posie Parker protest; supporters of your position, your sisters in arms, charged me (and others) with failing to denounce actions that they found abhorrent. Is this the standard for putting forward a view (in this case on the nature of reality and the role of the observer) – a declaration of position on matters chosen by "your crew"?
It seems very strange indeed, to me. Perhaps there are others who baulked at this behaviour, I can't know.
Sorry to be freaking you out. Let me reread the thread and get my bearings on what has happened and come back to you and see if we can reconnect the conversation in a better way.
Okay, thanks, no rush.
Material reality in the gender/sex context refers to the stuff of the universe that exists and can be observed and interacted with but is fundamentally independent of human thought.
For instance, humans as a species reproduce via a sexual binary (female eggs, male sperm). There is no variant on that, it's an aspect of material reality that cannot be changed by human imagination. The only way to get a new human is by combining the stuff of the universe that is in the egg and in the sperm.
Even if we develop technologies that take us out of nature/evolution eg cloning humans, that still has to happen using the materials and rules of material reality. Our thinking might conceive of how to do that, but it still gets done with physical stuff.
I guess it's theoretically possible that at some point in the future, humans might be able to create a third sex. We're not even close to being able to think about how to that in real life, let alone grapple with the ethical issues.
So when people engage with plants, that exists in material reality, but they engage via non-material means… although in the case of Goethe, it's both/and, right? so let's say they engage with the plant via material and non-material realms, the person doing the engaging still has the physical body they were born with. That body doesn't acquire the capacity for photosynthesis for instance. Nor does she/he have physical roots that are in relationship with soil microbia.
So whatever else is going on with the process and experience, we can definitively say that the person doesn't not become a plant materially.
The reason this matters (haha) is that material reality is a really great thing! We do ourselves and the rest of nature a great disservice to be in denial of it. The denial of material reality is driving the great crises of the world. The disconnect from our innate spiritual relationship with nature is that too. But they're the same thing, not because they are the same thing, but because both exist as each and as one.
Sorry to go all esoteric there, but what I see happening often is people realising the west has lost the plot (mind/body split etc) and then they eschew material reality because Descartes said some stupid shit about it a while back. Why are we letting that unfortunate part of history drive our thinking?
(it's often observed the similarities between the great religions that sought to transcend the body, and GII which seeks likewise. Both hate women in our fantastically female and natural bodies).
"Material reality in the gender/sex context refers to the stuff of the universe that exists and can be observed and interacted with but is fundamentally independent of human thought."
Material reality must cover all contexts, surely?
In any case, what reality can you describe that is fundamentally different from human thought?
If a tree falls in a forest…"
not sure what you mean by cover, but I chose to explain in that particular context because that's how the conversation started (and because I’ve read some excellent philosophical discussions about material reality arising from the sex/gender conflict). We can talk about material reality in lots of contexts, is that what you mean?
everything that is not human exists in a reality that is independent from human thought. We can think about all the things, but when we are not thinking about them they still exist. I don't have to describe it, it just is.
I'm pretty sure my cat is either hunting rabbits or sleeping it off right now (or maybe doing some other cat thing), but whether I am aware of that or not, he's still out there doing it materially.
Glad you brought up cats 🙂
Mr Schrödinger had one.
"The prevailing theory, called the Copenhagen interpretation, says that a quantum system remains in superposition until it interacts with, or is observed by, the external world."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger%27s_cat#:~:text=In%20Schrödinger%27s%20original%20formulation%2C%20a,poison%2C%20which%20kills%20the%20cat.
Schrodinger was making the point that the system described by quantum mechanics appeared ridiculus. The description produced is a distribution of probabilities for what will be observed. But this discussion makes the assumption that there is a reality which is exactly what is then observed in any experiment. The key insight should be that there is some missing part from quantum mechanics which if added allowed the exact outcomes to be found. Maybe this is related to fully integrating gravity into quantum mechanics. Its also possible that the resolution of measurement is too great a barrier to such experiments.
You've nailed it, Nic!
The basic product of philosophy (including logic and math) doesnt have to be true or observable. Thats just a basic fact of (human) thought. So it's a further demand of science that any models rejected by experiment should also be discarded. The question here seems to be should politics be expected to be conducted on a scientific understanding of society? Maybe in future we could prioratise the political issues of which ever fictional character appears in the ACT parties political advertising campaign?
Had to read that one several times 🙂
Could it be that one person’s myth is another person’s religion or reality?
For sure. Myth, religion and reality are each/all story, especially for us/we humans.I've seen/worked with, humans who can understand the story at all – it's not a pretty sight. Story is, of course, entirely manipulable, hence we can find ourselves/are in the thrall of powerful storytellers.
"Fantasy"writers such as Le Guin and Tolkien, when speaking/writing from their deepest selves, do not say myth is "not reality", or magic is "fantasy".
For the truth of the matter 🙂 Read T.H. White's "The Sword in the Stone" and how Merlin teaches young Arthur the true nature of reality.
You can "believe" anything you chose to believe. Fortunately, these days you cannot require other people to believe the same things. Mystical stuff belongs with mystical stuff. It is not biological reality.
Why the quotation marks around the first "believe" in your reply, Visubversa?
Human sex as binary can be quantified and verified.
Anything that says otherwise – without any measurable or testable criteria, is an article of faith. Thus 'belief'.
Science, eh!
It's cut and dried, this and never that.
All else is flim-flam.
See you around. I'm taking another break.
I need to plan stuff.
Thanks for your thoughtful post in the Atlas Smirked thread about where to from here. I'm still thinking about what that means for me where I am.
Kia kaha
One in a hundred thousand boasts 2023
Dead cat bounce says planet earth
https://www.climate.gov/media/15006
https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/graph-from-scott-wing-620px.png.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2024/01/scientists-confirm-2023-was-world-s-hottest-year-on-record.html
They must be reading TS
https://www.labour.org.nz/news-labour_calls_on_govt_to_join_case_against_israel
A big shoutout to Mels Barton and Greg Presland, Forest and Bird Waitakere, Te Kawerau A Maki and all the good folk of Waima in Titirangi Auckland for the consent conditions that forced Watercare to work so hard for their new pump station.
Hard fought and a great focus for civic environmental activism over the last 5 years,
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU2401/S00020/watercare-receives-long-awaited-consent-for-huia-water-treatment-plant-replacement.htm
It will supply water to approximately 300,000 Aucklanders, about 20 per cent of Auckland’s water.
In particular top score to the neighbourhood team for squeezing out $8.25 out of Waitakere to put to local biodoversity and conservation work. Looking forward to really sound preparation for construction starting 2027.
how about we just say that there is no absolute reality….reality being just a grey matter construct anyway.
The faux news brain worm at work.
@Acyn
Right now, Fox is suggesting that Taylor Swift is a psyop because she posted a link to register voters.
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1744897719578055029
The Post-UMD poll finds 39 percent of Americans who say Fox News is their primary news source believe the FBI organized and encouraged the Jan. 6 attack, compared with 16 percent of CNN or MSNBC viewers and 13 percent who get most of their news from ABC, CBS or NBC. The poll finds 44 percent of those who voted for Trump say the FBI instigated the attack.
https://archive.li/y6OBh (wapo)
As we say at work..
... it's me, my, I'm the problem it's me
Golriz?
The woman has MS. Medications used to manage the symptoms of MS are a who's who of brain breakers that can affect moral decision making.
If Gharaman's medication is that severe on her judgement, why is she in Parliament making law? Shaw will need to give her a fair amount of sick leave while the prosecution goes through.
From the ocean to the sea
Scotties clothes shall be free!
So droll!
This from Kiwiblog a couple of hours ago:
Not hard to see where you get your talking points from but you could at least link and attribute material that is not yours.
Also interesting that NZ zionist and noted Islamophobe, David Farrar, made a special post about this to declare it to his followers.
Let us remind ourselves that David Farrar had to introduce gateway moderation to his blog after the Christchurch mass murders…
Considering I got it from the new zealand subreddit page I don't think I'll be linking to kiwiblog
Ok, mate. It's all the same and you still didn't attribute.
It's important to attribute so that members of this forum know where your reckons come from, and that your reckons are not actually your own.
I reckons you can stick your attributes up your forum
[You’re obviously a troll who tries to be funny and belligerently displays the usual lack of honesty and integrity and as such, your comments are piss-poor. You’ve been warned before for trolling. No more warning – Incognito]
Mod note
Noted
"It's important to attribute so that members of this forum know where your reckons come from…"
That's good to hear MB.
Now you will be able to answer the question asked by myself and weka.
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-26-10-2023/#comment-1974357
After all, calling someone you don’t know a “militant, gender denying activist.” is othering and we know you don’t like that.
Don't hold your breath
Years ago, this was online from David Farrar:
It seems to have become 'fomenting.' Whichever it is, it's a great opportunity for posters on that site to start the year flaunting their appalling attitudes.
And for Farrar to play D J Trump: "People tell me that …", reality and fact become established and the invitation to swim in the sewer and ignorance is made and accepted.
Golriz Ghahraman is no indication of us living in a scummy country sad and wretched. You go to Farrar to see that.
The word "happy" is entirely inappropriate for Farrar's pitiful blog, which is (unsurprisingly, considering its proprietor) almost entirely hateful and virulently racist. This writer, i.e. moi, used to hang out there on my occasional periods of exile from The Standard (H/T Lin Prent, weka, Incognito, and Te Reo Putake).
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18-04-2019/#comment-1609201
Superiority complex with victimhood tendencies is more common than people realise.
I don't see David Farrar as superior to anyone, and he's certainly not a victim.
I agree with you on both points. Never mind.
My kindest solicitations to you, Mr Incognito.
Some people have made up their minds already.
Shaw stood her down from portfolios not me.
The Green leadership have made the judgement.
You did say the prosecution was going through. That might happen but it hasn't happened yet. Not that a detail like that stops a resident of Wānaka from the declaration.
So, Ad has (not to mention the nonentity R the Goodfellow) found her guilty regardless? Maybe no-one, including herself, was aware of the possible effect on her.
Either something went radically wrong for her, or she is the latest manifestation of DP. Whatever, I feel sympathy for her. She is a very intelligent young woman.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/506410/green-mp-golriz-ghahraman-stands-aside-from-portfolios-after-being-accused-of-shoplifting
You are the poster child for the Trump defence that all politicians are immune from prosecution.
The Green Party are already in contact with Scotties.
Presumably a statement tomorrow morning.
Bullshit. 🙄
Innocent until proven guilty but if found guilty I hope she gets a conviction and that its the end of her career.
I'm bloody sick of politicians running around acting like the rules don't apply to them, the behaviour of MPs in the last year has been disgusting.
We've had MPs boast about trying to interfere in court matters, lying about getting rid of their shares to cabinet, resisting arrest, a former or current I don't keep track with the torys getting thrown off a plane and not being charged for it and now we have one allegedly shoplifting.
If she's guilty I believe all MPs as representatives of the public should face the harshest available punishment according to the law broken (laws that they write) if they break a law.
She gets paid boat loads and is just a list mp.
I hope it's all a beat up but the public is sick to death of our representatives acting like the laws they write don't apply to them.
It's a high pressure job but noones forcing anyone to do it, individuals who are burnt out can should step down.
Normal people don't have the options or the money or the resources these people do.
Kiri Allen was not charged with resisting arrest. Refusing to accompany is the one applying with driving a car offences (charged with careless driving).
The legal issue is covered in this story – I suspect she will lose given the type of incident and normal practice takes away the relevance of a lawyer etc.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/kiri-allan-car-crash-former-justice-minister-explains-why-shes-pleading-not-guilty-to-car-crash-charges/QVKEJEBHJJCRDEBOWWDY4KDJ7E/
Corey, can you finish this sentence?
Innocent until proven guilty but if found innocent I hope she gets …
Never said she was guilty but it is funny
Ad, I know I said I was taking a break, however, if it's MS, then please leave her alone on that topic.
It's never ever anybody's fault that anybody has a disability and it is not her fault that she has MS and there is a lot of value in having someone with a disability or sickness being in politics and its sphere than if there was nobody in politics with such a background.
We need more people with disabilities and sicknesses to be represented in Aotearoa/NZ politics, not less.
These are perilous times and a lot of lives are on the line. It's only fair that we have political representation regardless of the times we find ourselves in.
That's all.
"… and there is a lot of value in having someone with a disability or sickness being in politics and its sphere than if there was nobody in politics with such a background".
Value lies in comprehensive research, consultation with advocates and appropriate consideration for those with sickness and disabilities.
The idea that representatives are required is flawed. Perspectives, and needs should be represented and that should be done by standard processes.
So, no need for women in politics?
Men who do "comprehensive research, consultation with advocates and appropriate consideration for (women) ", would suffice?
Given the experience of women on here, it is unlikely that many men have the capability of achieving "comprehensive research, consultation with advocates and appropriate consideration ".
However, relying on this to be rectified by including a female representative – who may also fail at the above – is a flawed notion.
The processes should be improved.
nevertheless, if you argue that representation isn't needed, what would an appropriate process look like for say a group making decisions about women where that group was all men.
If those men – actually understood and gave due consideration to the needs of women – and effectively represented and advocated for them, then they are more effective than a group of women who do not.
The fact of being female – doesn't mean you are an effective advocate for women.
Any representative – while they may be exceptional advocates for a particular demographic also have to ensure that all other consitituents are represented as well. ie. a politician concerned about women's health, uses processes that serve specific health needs for men.
I don't think anyone has suggested a group of women who don't understand or give due consideration to the needs of women, so that's the wrong comparison.
The comparison is between qualified women and qualified men, all other things being equal, would a group that included women do better for women than a group of men?
Sure, but that ensuring might be by recoginising the limits of one's own knowledge base and experience and making sure that the relevant experience and knowledge is included via people of the class being affected.
No-one can represent everyone all the time at the level required.
Men will never be as good as women at understand childbirth for instance. Yes, the women representing birthing women should have given birth and be qualified. And that makes them better at the job than men. I'm not talking individual exemptions to the principle here.
"The comparison is between qualified women and qualified men, all other things being equal, would a group that included women do better for women than a group of men?"
If the processes are robust, they should achieve the same.
If you have a definitive answer, then that part of the process should be improved.
You did indicate that you believe there's no need for those most affected by policy to be central to policy delivery, hence my question.
please explain how.
using people with first hand experience is part of the standard processes. It doesn't preclude research, consultation and appropriate consideration, it adds to those things.
Meanwhile, across many sectors, we have seen that consultation with groups by people not of that group but who hold the power, leads to poor policy and outcomes.
In the disability area, an example would be town planning and the push towards cycling/walking and non-car spaces that pays lip service to disability and constantly gets it wrong. That is less likely to happen if people with disabilities were part of the planning process (and I don't mean the odd token person with a disability).
Having a disability in and of itself doesn't qualify, having an otherwise qualified person who also has a disability adds perspectives that are needed.
I'm not suggesting the processes are not flawed. They need to be improved to ensure that consultation, research and appropriate considerations are made. Advocates may be elected as representatives – all good – but should not be required for the processes to be effective.
Unfortunately, there are the usual political and administrative impediments to good representation. This can be addressed, with or without specific representatives.
ok, but you still haven't explained why. Would you mind putting your thinking out in more detail?
I believe I've been pretty clear. Processes should exist, and be in constant review for improvement, that ensures the needs of all people are represented in policies and governance.
This allows full-time advocates to concentrate on those they advocate for, without the additional time costs and burdens that as political representatives they should devote to other groups.
Consultation with such advocates – should definitely be part of a comprehensive and effective process.
I don't think I have anything further to add. Unless you have something specific you wanted to ask.
I have.
Who should design those processes?
They should already exist. It is apparent that if they do – they are inadequate. Have a look at who was consulted regarding policy at Sports NZ that would impact on women and girls in sports:
https://sportnz.org.nz/media/okjhw2n2/summary-of-feedback-final-1.pdf
But if you are happy with inadequate, inefficient and ineffective processes as long as a token representative is in place, that's your call. I have no inclination to spend time attempting to change your mind.
"… inadequate, inefficient and ineffective processes as long as a token representative is in place…"
Is that the case?
@Robert Guyton
"Is that the case?"
We are coming across a familiar occurrence, where you appear to lose sight of the original point of discussion.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-01-2024/#comment-1984131
You may have a long lifespan ahead of you, but mine is too short to spend further time while I wait for you to regroup and catch up.
Carry on without me. It seems my comments are unnecessary for you to misconstrue what I say anyway.
I am myself a disabled person and I have had some experience in politics and I do not like that you think to exclude our bodies and minds by delegating our politics to some well-meaning people all the time. Allies matters, however, there's never a true substitute for authenticity. Sure, there's stinkers and pull-up ladderers in our group, however, that's par for the course for politics. We can't help these who would backstab us or destroy our gains. That's the risk. We should strive nonetheless.
There is nothing better than somebody who can understand and gets it completely and helps you to the degree that even allies cannot. Having agency and power to make your own future is not to be underestimated. It turns you from being a spectator to someone who can do what you think is best for better or worse.
Agency and the ability to execute our own political agenda is extremely vital. All successful political social/economic movements ever created has leaders, representatives and followers who has the authentic experience and lives that comes of going through that sort of experience.
What this tells me is that we still need more people who knows what it's like to be disabled and gets it and can work for us.
Allies are always valuable and are appreciated and should be treasured, however, one thing is clear, it's ultimately our lives that we should be in control of, not be controlled by others. Having ourselves being able to find a way to empower and make our life better means we will be more able to pull our weight to help you right back to make a better future for all.
That is what matters. Being able to be on a more equal basis with other people. We would be more able to make a more universal society where we can be more able to be more involved in all of our futures.
Nothing about all of us without all of us.
And – I was not talking about tokenism nor advocating for such. I am advocating for a fuller vision of disabled people being woven more into the fabric of our greater society. It was always implicit in my argument that disabled people with some prior knowledge of the matters affecting ourselves were going to be what I was pushing for. Tokenism was never the aim. That you think any of what I was talking about was going to lead to Tokenism is not what I’m aiming for with my arguments: I’m aiming for addition and participation and agency and ability to exercise our voice and power amongst many in our society.
Your arguments seem to imply that we don't place any value on expertise, only representation when I don't actually think that. Ultimately, I am saying that we need more representation in the halls of power with actual expertise and plenty of ability to wield such expertise on the same basis as able-bodied people who we are working with on our own affairs and lives.
Nothing about us without us is what we are saying basically. We need to have power and a say in our own future as disabled people so we can return the favour to everyone else.
I fully support your views, Rolling-on-Gravel.
“The woman has MS. Medications used to manage the symptoms of MS are a who’s who of brain breakers that can affect moral decision making.”
Speaking as someone who has a close friend with MS – this is deeply insulting. Medication side effects may affect your ability in a range of areas – however, your moral code is not one of them.
If she is indeed so affected by side effects of her medication, that she can't make rational decisions about every-day matters – then she does not belong in the high-pressure environment of the House of Representatives.
Personally, I doubt that this is the case.
"Medications used to manage the symptoms of MS are a who’s who of brain breakers that can affect moral decision making.”"
Is this then, not true?
List of common medications used to treat MS here – cognitive dysfunction – let alone affecting moral decision making- is not listed as a risk factor for any of them.
https://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/ms-treatment
Your list proves it then: no cognitive dysfunction from MS medications.
Those who think otherwise, no matter what their experience, are wrong, right?
I'd be surprised if all of the meds in that article had zero impact on cognitive function. Read joe90's comments as well.
As in many matters medical, it often helps to get a second expert opinion.
Maybe the medications that Ghahraman has been prescribed to treat her MS condition (diagnosed in 2018) don't adversely affect her cognition, and maybe the condition itself doesn't affect her cognition, but usually I'd prefer more than a single anecdotal claim (based on the experiences of one of Belladonna's close friends) about how MS and MS treatments can affect people, before coming to a conclusion – we're all individuals.
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD011381.pub3/full
I'd prefer some actual evidence that MS medications can "affect moral decision making" which was the initial claim.
So far – zip.
Joe has clarified here,
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-01-2024/#comment-1984184
My reading now of the initial comment is that it was about cognitive impairment (from meds) that impact on ethical decisions, rather than the meds impairing ethics/morals.
Great. Glad he's walked that back.
This kind of poorly worded speculation potentially does a great deal of harm to all MS sufferers in the workplace. No one wants their boss to be thinking that their medication impacts on their ethics.
Nor, for the vast majority of MS sufferers (yet to see any evidence that it impacts any, but I'm willing to be convinced) – is there any impact of medication on their cognitive abilities or impulse control around decision-making.
People with MS already have a very hard row to hoe, with an 'invisible' disability. They don't need any added burdens arising from public misconception of the side-effects of the medication required to manage their condition.
fair points about the misconceptions about MS.
Anyone could have asked joe right at the start to clarify. It’s a shortcoming of our political debate culture.
Nah.
/
affect 1
/əˈfɛkt/
verb
verb: affect; 3rd person present: affects; past tense: affected; past participle: affected; gerund or present participle: affecting
"the dampness began to affect my health"
Fair call B – the human brain is a complex beast, so it's possible that MS medications (or the condition itself) could impair decision making (judgement, cognition etc.), without affecting moral decision making.
I don't know what Ghahraman did or didn't do at Scotties Boutique, why she did or didn't do it, whether her decision making was impaired and, if so, what might have contributed to the hypothetical impairment. Seems to be a lot of (pre)judgement given the apparent lack of facts.
That's politics for you.
SSRIs, SNRIs, and anticonvulsants are used in the management of MS symptoms.
Here, we investigated whether this hyperaltruistic disposition is susceptible to monoaminergic control. We observed dissociable effects of the serotonin reuptake inhibitor citalopram and the dopamine precursor levodopa on decisions to inflict pain on oneself and others for financial gain. Computational models of choice behavior showed that citalopram increased harm aversion for both self and others, while levodopa reduced hyperaltruism. The effects of citalopram were stronger than those of levodopa. Crucially, neither drug influenced the physical perception of pain or other components of choice such as motor impulsivity or loss aversion suggesting a direct and specific influence of serotonin and dopamine on the valuation of harm. We also found evidence for dose dependency of these effects. Finally, the drugs had dissociable effects on response times, with citalopram enhancing behavioral inhibition and levodopa reducing slowing related to being responsible for another’s fate.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(15)00595-3
Nothing about changing ethical behaviour. If you think it is not OK to steal (or cause pain to others, in your example), taking the MS drugs isn't going to change that ethical decision.
What may change is your appreciation of consequences for your actions. This is not ethics, it's risk/reward.
Medications that affect decision making don't affect ethical decisions.
Really?
I'm curious how you think they do. Cognition can obviously be affected, but morality? Do you mean that cognition is impaired and this makes decisions more difficult, or do you mean people's sense of morality is altered?
Related to my own experience with how SNRIs and an anticonvulsant prescribed to treat neuropathic pain altered my decision making processes, no.
It's more a loss of impulse control and decision making abilities combined with a brain fade/blank page/forgetfulness thing. More than once I found myself having to return to a shop because I'd simply forgotten to pay. Driving was diabolical, too. I'd look right and see a car and know that I had to give way, look left, forget about the car on my right, and off I'd go. Multiple near misses until I gave up driving.
The other biggie was suicide ideation. For someone who'd never ever thought about taking their own life, being preoccupied with self harm was as scary AF.
thanks for clarifying joe, that makes a lot of sense.
Do you think someone with that level of impairment, while in that period, should have the additional burden and responsibility of acting as a MP?
Yes, Really.
Taking medication doesn't change your ethics. It may change your risk assessment (you don't perceive the consequences of your actions) – but if you think something is 'wrong' before you start your course of medication you'll still think it is 'wrong' while you're taking the drugs.
Those "date-rape" drugs – do they affect decision-making?
Datura is famed for changing a person's behaviour, suggestibility, long-established reactions to threats to safety.
the issue isn't decision making (meds affect that), it's whether morals and ethics are affected.
Ethics and morals don't involve decisions?
Colour me surprised.
you’ve completely misinterpreted what I said. Care to try again?
I stayed out of this discussion for a number of reasons, but ethical behaviour and moral judgement/moral decision-making can be affected by a wide range of medical (and non-medical!) conditions and treatments, incl. medication, obviously. Anyway, a person’s ethical values and principles are not as hard & fast as some (many?) seem to think.
That’s all I want to say about this.
How concrete are morals and ethics under the influence of medications?
Are you suggesting rock-solid?
I'm not of that mind.
Pain, desperation, despair, hopelessness coupled with narcotics, soporifics, deliriant etc. can dissipate ethical and moral resolve, imo.
(I'm not referring to Golritz' situation here).
No, I’m suggesting that you are misinterpreting what I am saying.
It’s hard to have a conversation when that is happening.
Belladonna @ 15.1.2
I suffer from severe osteoarthritis and am on a 24 hour pain regime. The consequence of that regime – plus the pain I still have to endure – leaves me tired and absent minded. I have walked out of a shop a few times without paying and the assistant has had to call me back. Since I have to use a crutch to get around they seem to know it was not deliberate and there have been no problems.
I have no idea what happened to Gholriz Gharaman, but if she was under some stress from the drugs she has to take, it may have had a bearing on what happened. Certain drugs can have negative effects for some people but not others.
Anne, I agree that medication and long-term pain can cause absent mindedness or brain fog – but that's not what was being alleged here. The claim was that it can "affect moral decision making". Which is AFAIK, completely untrue – and deeply insulting to people with MS.
OK. I see where you are coming from. Perhaps the term "affect moral decision making" is not appropriate. People who are on drugs, including medically prescribed drugs, can sometimes act in a way which is not normal for them. Its possible this is what happened here. Time will tell.
I support your view, Anne.
You seem to have a friend for every occasion with respect to political discussion. It's quite remarkable.
Perhaps you could have a conversation with your friend about the affects a MS diagnosis has on mental health. How did your friend fare 1 year after diagnosis, 2 years? For instance, was it difficult to accept having their future potentially ripped away from them?
I believe everyone has a different experience of disease and medication and it seems to me you expect a lot from sufferers, and are being a bit mean about one particular sufferer, for political purposes.
That is the kind of comment which inclines me to believe that you have zero practical acquaintance with anyone with a long-term disability or medical diagnosis.
Fail to see in what way I was 'mean' about Ghahraman. I was pointing out that Joe90's claim that MS medication can "affect moral decision making" is bunkum. And dangerous bunkum, at that.
I am perfectly willing to believe (if and when there are some actual examples provided – which, so far, there have not been) that medication for MS can affect decision-making and/or risk/reward decisions. Certainly we see this as a side effect of treatment for other medical conditions. What it can't do is change people's ethics or morals.
Frame up, trying to discredit a young brown liberated woman who fights for the poor, LGBTQ and Palestine. No shortage of people who want her out.
Hell of a frame up if it gets someone to stand from their roles
That's the whole idea.
"Frame up" implies there is no truth to the allegations. If that were the case, Ghahraman would have vigorously denied the allegation (possibly with an associated libel claim) – and been supported by the Green Party.
The current actions (refusal to comment, coupled with removal from her portfolios), imply that there is a case to answer.
I only replied so you wouldn't feel bad