Stop pleading with people who can't be bothered, or don't want to be vaccinated and allow people who want to be vaccinated to get the jabs.
Also stop sending out invites to people from the DHB and the GP at the same time to the same people. One could understand if there is some confusion if you can’t even get that right.
Hard to imagine the vaccine programme failing given the heavy coercion via media, and all that censorship.
I'm fully expecting vaccine lotteries similar to those in the US and Canada to be rolled out next although it might be illegal here at present. Be surprised to see medical Drs speaking out against this type of manipulation if it does occur
Well i would be happy if they could just co-ordinate enough to send the same person to two different places at the same time because they are ovbiously on more then one list.
After all is that not what a new IT system was invented? I have heard that from a few people now, specifically those that appear on different lists as they are healthcare workers, or in a particular age group and then again in a different group due to health reasons.
I honestly don't care if people go for the vaccine or not – unless it is made mandatory you can't force people to get it, but you can prioritise those that WANT the vaccine, and then sweep up those that may change their mind over the time.
I however am not happy about getting people back from Melbourne without a requirement to either go into quarantine or self isolate, but then the risk is acceptable to us unvaccinated. Right?
What censorship? I've not heard of any. Unless you're referring to the conspiracy theories which people are rightfully encouraged to ignore.
I agree with Sabine. Stop wasting time on the lazy and the doubters. I have a close relative who is 77 with underlying conditions (not overly serious but they exist) and he tried to get a jab from the one and only vaccine clinic in the North Shore region. He was turned down on the basis he was out of the zone. He lives in Devonport.
Based on that premise it means all over 65s who live in the south of the region are currently out of luck – unless you received an official invitation to make a booking which only applies to a portion of the local elderly. Nobody seems to know why they got an invite and not the rest of us. The invitees I know don't know either.
Clever response, Rosemary. It's very hard to identify good censorship.
On the other hand, and by the same logic, how do we know we are being censored at all?
How do you prove that something is not happening, especially when the proponents are saying it is happening but you don't know it is because that is the nature of censorship, od secrecy, and dare I say it, of conspiracy?
I see the answer might be found below at #6 from Isaac. The key to it all……..
Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
Hard to imagine the vaccine programme failing given the heavy coercion via media, and all that censorship.
What heavy coercionvia media? If some do feel heavily coerced about anything in the NZ media, my advice is to limit their exposure to said media – a kind of reverse censorship. It's really easy as no-one can be coerced to 'consume' media offerings.
I do hope that NZ's optional COVID-19 vaccination programme achieves it aims of limiting the spread of COVID-19 and/or the severity of symptoms, just like other optional vaccination programmes to protect against rotavirus, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae type b, pneumococcal disease, chickenpox, measles, mumps, rubella, human papillomavirus, and shingles.
No vaccine is 100% effective, as they all rely on immune systems, but their ‘prevent and protect‘ functions are, on balance, beneficial to human health.
If you want to get vaccinated, or vaccinate your children, then go for it – I'm looking forward to getting my COVID-19 jabs – no (heavy) coercionvia media required.
Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
Maui – yes, there's plenty of MSM coverage about COVID-19 vaccines, both positive and negative. As the global pandemic death toll closes in on 4 million tragic deaths (with the realistic death toll much higher) that's hardly surprising.
As far as I can tell no Ministry of Health staff or reputable media outlets are concealing the fact that the Pfizer vaccine is effective for ‘only‘ ~19 of every 20 recipients, or that there is a (very very) tiny risk of significant side-effects. Just type "COVID vaccine side-effects" into a Google search to see for yourself.
So if you believe that the media coverage amounts to "heavy coercion" = use of heavy force or heavy threats (to do what?), then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Tbh, it saddens me that you, or anyone, might feel coerced by the release of factual information about the effects and side-effects of COVID-19 vaccines.
Maybe peer pressure or social pressure are better terms? There’s always pressure to conform to the majority view. I have to confess that I often like to give the finger to majority views and social ‘expectation’ especially when it there appears to have no solid foundation. I’ve learned to resist that temptation though because of OOS 😉
Hard to imagine the vaccine programme failing given the heavy coercion via media, and all that censorship.
Hard to imagine anyone wanting the 'vaccine programme' to fail, but…
Yep Incognito, pressure/encouragement from peers and wider society (including government agencies) to get vaccinated against COVID will be significant; certainly far greater than peer pressure to not get vaccinated.
Can't rule out the possibility that there are instances of "heavy coercion" to get vaccinated against COVID-19, but imho such a claim should be supported by at least one NZ example.
I support the freedom of any NZer to remain unvaccinated, although it's reasonable that those in critical border control and healthcare roles who choose not to, or are unable to get vaccinated must accept redeployment to duties with a relatively low risk of COVID-19 infection.
I have to confess that I often like to give the finger to majority views…
I too have a propensity to be suspicious of majority views. Regarding this global pandemic, is there a credible minority view (notPlan B) that's advocating against the widespread use of effective COVID-19 vaccines?
Will be interesting to see if, like the 1918 'Spanish flu', this pandemic burns out, or whether it settles into a (hopefully low-level) 'virus-vaccine arms race'.
Penny Tucker is concerned that there are “miracle drugs and biologics that have transformed many conditions from a death sentence to a surmountable challenge” and blames the lack of supply of these squarely on Pharmac. She is disappointed that Pharmac’s budget is not part of the review and is critical of its bureaucracy.
I acknowledge that she has declared no involvement with the pharmaceutical industry but her arguments sound about the same as those from Graeme Jarvis of Medicines New Zealand. She makes no mention of the role that the pharmaceutical industry plays in the difficulty of funding these.
The headline “Pharmac works well. Unless you’re sick” is seriously misleading. The contrary is true for the vast majority of New Zealanders, who received pharmaceuticals worth $1.04 billion last year
Funny thing is though, that this is true for both, Pharmac is ok for those that don't need extra super duper special medication, but for those that need it, Pharmac does not work quite so well. And for those that had their working meds changed to a cheaper alternative without consultation, Pharmacs decision can be well say challenging.
Virtually every drug has side effects and often people have to stop taking them, luckily for me Pharmac had a second choice but because it was more expensive needed a specialist sign off.
A bit baffled over a generic switch , but not surprised the concerns were from people with a 'mood related ' disorder or have been on a previous drug for a long time can forget the original adjustment wasnt easy either.
Placebo and Nocebo effects show no active ingredient or no change in drug can still trigger side effects
Another side to the PHARMAC story from someone who would benefit from them being much more generous with funding certain miracle drugs and procedures if you read the media reports. I research the relevant medical publications and expert assessments relevant to my condition and conclude that PHARMAC decisions are robust and clinically sound in this respect.
quite correct incognito. the usual moaners on here looking for a reason to whinge, should get out and pay full $$ for their meds. would make them stop and be very slightly grateful for pharmac(but probably not, too full of their own misery). their will ALWAYS be patients with unusual medical problems that need meds that arent subsidized, but with the HUGE range of meds for all sorts of conditions, that really is unavoidable. as someone who takes lots of meds, I am grateful for pharmac and how much they save me. a couple of the meds arent subsidized but winz often helps, and I figure if pharmac is saving me $50 on every ventolin inhaler, I can afford to put something toward meds they dont subsidize. too many on here are constantly whineing about how the gov isnt doing enough..get off your arse and help yourselves!!
Why does nobody go after the drug greedy companies, $70k a year for the latest alzheimer medicines, hell if they sold it for $10k a year I bet they would sell more than 7 times the amount.
Not sure what you mean . My point us once a drug is developed selling more of it at a cheaper rate must increase profits, but they chose to be arsholes!!
If the UN had balls or teeth they would sort this out . If companies are gouging fuck them and their patents just steal thier recipe.
I have this strange belief that the demand for alzheimers treatment is less related to price and more related to the number of people with the condition. Especially in NZ where there is public funding.
But if we take your reasoning as true then they are apparently surpressing alzheimers by 7x just by over charging. Maybe they could be asked to reduce the condition further by over charging even more?
lol, how very anti-capitalist. There are some things we are not allowed to touch, and big pharma is one of them. AIDS drugs in Africa being a prime example, but covid vaccines is fast catching up.
And to think Glaxo started in NZ – "…symbolises the culture of innovation that New Zealand is known for around the world."
Joseph Nathan and Co. was founded in 1873, as a general trading company in Wellington, New Zealand, by a Londoner, Joseph Edward Nathan. In 1904, it began producing a dried-milk baby food from excess milk produced on dairy farms near Bunnythorpe. The resulting product was first known as Defiance, then as Glaxo (from lacto), and sold with the slogan "Glaxo builds bonnie babies." The Glaxo Laboratories sign is still visibleon what is now a car repair shop on the main street of Bunnythorpe.
Pfizer has asked some Latin American countries for “indemnity from civil cases, meaning that the company would not be held liable for rare adverse effects or for its own acts of negligence, fraud or malice,” according to a recent report from the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. “This includes those linked to company practices – say, if Pfizer sent the wrong vaccine or made errors during manufacturing.” In comments featured in the Bureau of Investigative Journalism report, Georgetown Law professor Lawrence Gostin explained that “[s]ome liability protection is warranted, but certainly not for fraud, gross negligence, mismanagement, failure to follow good manufacturing practices.”
(A copy of the contract is embedded in the article, and is written in both Spanish and English.)
Essentially the Act is about protection of the public – makes sure that all those who are covered by it have appropriate qualifications, standards and scopes of practice etc and prevents others who do not have the right training from being able to call themselves a doctor, nurse, physiotherapist or whatever other health profession.
The Act covers all the health professions but until now the Chinese medicine practitioners have not been covered by it.
5,000 years of empirical practice, theory development and building knowledge. Not to diss folk medicine but TCM is a form of medicine that requires training to n complex theory and practice. What qualifications in TCM does your doctor have?
So, lip service to the woo-believers while patients, families and communities are not only left to fund their own drugs, they're forced to stump up to administer life saving therapies to friends and loved ones.
Because Keytruda is unfunded in New Zealand for all cancers other than advanced melanoma: The Ministry of Health has directed that public hospitals are not to administer unfunded medicines and therefore Keytruda can only be given in a private hospital setting.
This directive adds another $27,000 on top of the $60,000 which pays for the administration, scans, oncologist fees and GST for the private hospital.
An awful lot of time spent waiting for wind and tide to be in the right direction, and for loading and discharging.
A big contrast to a modern container ship working 24/7 day and night every day of the year.
I worked years ago with many of the old scow sailors and several people who were on the Pamir.
Most of them much preferred the more relaxed, old days.as
Plenty of stories of days in the pub, waiting for wind and tide. One swore that the story of a scow spearing an, occupied, farmers dunny with the bowsprit while tacking up a creek, was true.
Yeah, she had sails, but an engine too. You use the sails when you've got a bit of room, not up tidal creeks and such. Electrification is I think a later step for improving transport fuel efficiency – just getting freight off the roads is the first step, and given industry resistance, you'd want to see how that battle played out before electrifying our largely extinct coastal shipping.
I think the government hasn't really given much thought to coastal shipping. You'd want to develop Clifford Bay or somewhere nearby, as the fairweather ferry port, and move freight through there when conditions allow – knocks a big chunk of fuel out of the interisland equation. And fuel = emissions.
Oh dear Clifford Bay again. I knew it was a bit closer for trucks and the ferry. Now you say that it would be a better port from the weather situation. If it was open could Picton still be used by inter-islander for tourist purposes and the rail link? Would that be viable? Picton needs to use its investment in seagoing ventures, and they keep the town going. It would be bad for it to divert too much elsewhere.
A port outside the Sounds saves about an hour on the ferry, together with some wake erosion. Picton will still be needed in strong easterlies apparently, so it doesn't close. Less ferries and more leisure craft can still keep it prosperous.
I seem to have a vague memory of Gerry Brownlee selling the land at Clifford bay that was being held fr a port. My understanding was, if a breakwater was built, then the ferry trip from wellington is shorter, the trip to christchurch is shorter and the rail wagons don't have to be hauled over the Dashwood incline.
The "Janey!" – Do you have the pamphlet written about her and the crew? A real work horse. The Warkworth Cement works started by Wilsons was dependent upon her fetching shell from the shell banks at Miranda in the Firth of Thames – where the godwits now feed. She is of course back at her old locality on the Maharangi River in Warkworth. My wife is an descendant of Davy Darroch who built her. Named after the ship which brought Davy and his father George and mother Nicholas to NZ in 1842. (Jane Gifford was the wife of the owner of the ship). Davy's tools are held in the Warkworth museum.
I still have a copy of The Janey and Her Skipper – written by Ivy Collins – Reg's wife.
He worked her pretty hard, loading shell and shingle by barrow as often as not. My understanding was he let her go when the rules changed requiring him to carry an engineer – which must have affronted someone who lost so much hair nursing a temperamental diesel into life with a blowtorch.
I enjoyed reading a lent copy of it from a g'son of a former crew member. The family here have a fond attachment to the Janey and have a copy of the painting of the Jane Gifford and The Duchess of Argyll arrival in Auckland on the wall.
Amongst the photogenic pictures of 'Jane' there were ads for Omaha Beach's Jane Gifford Place and this was put up only 2 years ago.
Imagine waking to the gentle sounds of surf, leaping out of bed, a 3-minute stroll to watch the sun rise on the pristine, white sands of Omaha Beach. Walk your dog with a friend, cast your fishing rod or catch a wave, then wander back via the café
I hope that people have finally caught up with the idea of – a Sea level rise b Weather bombs c King/queen tides more frequent d Huge waves from local or distant weather events. Just not what you want to wake up to and definitely not 'the gentle sounds of surf'.
I hope too the Rip van Winkels don't wake up with a shock, and go waah Council, government, come and help us now we have been foolish and wilfully ignorant and invested in wet sand. Even the bible warns against that though note; it isn't the real estate 'profession' bible.
..shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7: 24-27
The actuaries at insurance companies dont seem to agree with your reckons.
"Christchurch and Dunedin have the largest numbers of homes affected by premiums quadrupling or worse – at least 4850 and 3100, respectively, after 13-14cm of sea level rise."
The timing of insurance retreat chart is worth attention.
The historical reason for Blenheim being where it is comes from the fact that it was the first firm land suitable for wagons to unload cargoes from coastal scows such as the Edwin Fox etc.
It would be interesting to see the Clifford Bay proposal revisited in these changing times.
Nice work by NZ (UoA) scientists in 2004 – published in Nature, no less. But iron oxide particles belong in pigeon beaks, not in humans, which is where they will be if Big Pharma has its wicked way. No-one's proven that these iron oxide-based vaccine delivery systems can't turn people into compliant 'pigeons' – keep your guard up.
Homing pigeons reveal true magnetism
Iron crystals in their beaks give birds a nose for north. It's official: homing pigeons really can sense Earth's magnetic field. An investigation of their ability to detect different magnetic fields shows that their impressive navigation skills almost certainly relies on tiny magnetic particles in their beaks.
quiztest. In this game you’re told you’re playing a game against somebody and that person has been given a pot of money which they must share with you. They may have $10 and make you an offer of $2.
“And then you have a choice, you can choose to take that $2, which is real money, walk away and buy something, or you can decide to turn the offer down.
But if you turn the offer down, then you leave with no money, and the other person also leaves with no money…”
“But what they found was that if people were offered $2 out of a $10 pot then around half of people would turn that down.” This held true even for larger amounts of money, he says.
“An American group then did it where it was $100 a game. And they still found that when people were offered 20 bucks out of that 100, around half would still turn it down. So even if there's quite a lot of money on the line people will still spitefully turn it down.
“They turned it down because they didn't want the other person to get more money than they did.” This could simply be a fairness instinct manifesting itself, but other games show a darker impulse.
The ‘Joy of Destruction’ game is when everybody has a task and earns the same amount for it. “At the end, you're asked under conditions of anonymity whether you'd like to destroy some of the other person's money just because you can do and about 40 percent of people spitefully choose to destroy the other person's money – just because they can.”
What do you think. A bit of something, is worth more than a lot of nothing, all things being equal?
I have observed the instinct in cases where the person wasn't going to get anything but was simply jealous of someone they don't know being fortunate. The one where people will reject quite large sums still surprises me though. I simply don't understand the psychology of such people.
In terms of the spite behavior though I can offer the variant I never understood either. An acquaintance of mine bought an old Rolls Royce a couple of years ago. It was about 30 years old and it only cost him about $15,000, ie the price of a 3 year old basic car. He just wanted to own one once in his life and it being old and a bit unreliable didn't bother him.
It was totally ruined for him because he couldn't park it anywhere in Wellington. It would have some idiot run a coin down the side, just for spite it appeared. It happened to him 4 or 5 times in just a couple of months. Why did people behave that way? He got rid of it because the behavior of other people who were simply jealous of someone they didn't even know was too much for him.
Nobody was earning, it was (potentially) fortuitous gain…the logical and fair thing to do was offer to split it….id suggest if that was done the uptake would be near universal.
I wonder if the outcome would have been different if it had been apples, pies or marbles, for example, instead of dollars. We seem to have an other-worldly relationship with money.
I suspect Ashley Church may be rather better informed about housing affordability than Chloe. And I'd suggest Chloe may need to do more reading if she is seriously advocating for rent controls.
I suspect Ashley Church is not an elected MP with an electorate seat who is in Parliament for the whole of Aotearoa-New Zealand. You sure make some silly comments.
Never said that. Point is that as an MP, she gets to make policy and decisions that affect many more than just a Real Estate lobby group. She’s accountable to all Kiwis. You’re betting on the wrong horse, but maybe you have an engrained bias against the Green Party or an agenda or both.
My comment was never about influence, it was about knowledge and experience.
"I suspect Ashley Church may be rather better informed about housing affordability than Chloe."
If Chloe wants to use her policy and decision making ability in a constructive way, she could a lot worse than to have a chat about housing affordability with someone with Ashley Church's experience.
So you did, which was a meaningless comment, at best, and more like an attack on a Green MP. For example, Andrew Little is not medically qualified in the slightest yet he’s the Minister of Health. The way it works is that Government MPs and Ministers get professional and expert advice from qualified people. I doubt Ashley Church is among those, for obvious reasons. National MPs OTOH might welcome it with open arms and lots of hugs & kisses; a few former MPs are now Real Estate agents I’ve heard.
" I doubt Ashley Church is among those, for obvious reasons."
The only "obvious reason" would be that Church is informed, knowledgeable and experienced. Chloe is not. Which, despite your obvious misreading of my post, is why I suggested she does some more research.
CoreLogic notes that affordability analysis can rarely be based on absolute comparisons – it has to be an area’s figures measured relative to its own history or to other parts of the country. All in all, Mr Davidson says, “There is nothing new about increasing unaffordability – to combat it, New Zealand needs more supply of housing and more intensified housing – making use of prefab techniques and tiny housing.”
“The key message from this report is that housing affordability worsened quite appreciably in the final three months of 2020 and any further declines will increase the divide between existing owners and those who aspire to buy, and lessen the pool of people who can actually enter the market, ensuring that this issue remains right at the top of the public agenda for some time to come.”
About CoreLogic
With coverage of 99% of the New Zealand property market and more than 500 million decision points in our database, we're absolutely passionate about data accuracy which allows us to deliver on our promise of the most reliable and powerful property insights and analytics.
Maybe Church's analysis is the odd one out, which would be odd indeed given that he's a former CEO of the Property Institute of New Zealand.
That being said, maybe the recent tax changes for residential investment properties will begin to have an effect at the lower end of the property market.
I have the answer for you. It is in the words "final three months of 2020". Church's analysis covers a considerably longer time frame.
“That being said, maybe the recent tax changes for residential investment properties will begin to have an effect at the lower end of the property market.”
My personal view is they won’t, because there is still a huge issue with supply. Ashley Church, in his letter to the PM, points out that the biggest impediment to first home buyers is the deposit, and there are ways to fix that that the government could be considering.
Auckland Business leader Ashley Church is calling on people to reject MMP in tomorrow’s referendum.
Mr Church, who currently heads the Newmarket Business Association, was a vocal opponent of MMP prior to the 1993 referendum and says that all of the concerns he expressed at that time have been realised since the system was implemented.
We are calling out the Israel Institute. This has gone too far.
The Israel Institute calls itself an independent think-tank. Its three co-directors are David Cumin, Perry Trotter and Ashley Church. It is not a registered charity, or charitable trust, or incorporated society. It is not tax exempt. We found no accountability documentation.
Oh Church is certainly not apolitical. But I note you haven't found anything to undermine his credentials on housing. Which is, after all, what we're talking about.
No, before you bring in your dodgy propagandist, you must answer Chloe's case.
Church seems to be disqualified by avarice (he's a rentier) and inclination (he is involved with the untruthful and frankly toxic taxevader's "union") from meaningful commentary – if we wanted even more failed Chicago school bullshit, we need only consult the ape-descended primates on Kiwibog.
So being a rentier disqualifies a person from having an informed opinion on the property market? That's like saying anyone who benefits financially from climate change policy is disqualified from having a qualified on opinion on climate change. It's silly.
As for Chloe's case, I have answered it. She speaks about it taking decades for housing to return to affordability, but as Ashley Church points out, housing is more affordable now than it was 33 years ago.
Chloe also argues for rent controls, and in support links to the UK Labour Party's proposals, which are untried, while ignoring the evidence that rent controls have perverse outcomes.
I have nothing against Chloe personally, but she is seriously out of her depth.
I have nothing against Chloe personally, but she is seriously out of her depth.
How lovely to know that your attacks on Chlöe are not personal, nor on James Shaw or the Green Party at large, I take it. And you would know this because your hero/guru Ashley Church told you?
The Green Party has opened this for public discussion and feedback and put up eight options to start the debate.
Clearly, housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland. As the Greens point out, there are international examples of various ways of control and regulation that work. Unsurprisingly, you had to cherry-pick the untested proposals by Labour UK. However, I do assume that those proposals are founded on research too, as is the case with the Green Party’s initiative.
The Taxpayers’ Onion has no credibility whatsoever until they put up a discussion document that National or ACT can take to Parliament. Instead, they fear-monger in the hope of stymying the debate and killing off any firm policy proposals by this Government. It goes without saying that they don’t ACT in good faith. Never have. Never will. Do you donate to them?
Pointless exercise ….gypsy has misinterpreted the claim in his linked 2019 article (median house price has increased by over 30% since) where Ashley Church does what he accuses others of doing and cherry picks 'serviceability' criteria to compare two points in time to create a false narrative and conveniently ignores deposit criteria, mortgage terms and income ratios.
Corelogics most recent report notes these factors in its analysis and is a much better source of analysis than an industry spruiker.
The Core Logic data is looking at a much narrower window. I havn't misinterpreted any claim. And the deposit criteria is something Ashley Church specifically mentions in his letter to the PM.
What I do find strange is the seeming willingness to accept untried political opinions over the word of someone who understands the housing market. I doubt that principle would be applied in other areas?
Lol…what I find strange is the supporting links in his letter to the PM are his own articles….he provides ZERO evidence for his talking points…all of which are regularly trotted out by the industry.
The fact is housing affordability is completely controllable by the government should they so choose….the real question is whether the consequences are politically saleable.
As the Gov and RBNZ are well aware its a question of when not if the housing ponzi crashes….and every action to date has been to defer that day.
If (contrary to what Ashley Church espouses) the Gov can control housing affordability as you agree AND that is a political decision then why would you listen to his advice ( a failed politician) over that of a successful politician (Chloe Swarbrick)?
He's a lobbyist using an industry provided outlet and his opinion deserves to be viewed as such.
" If (contrary to what Ashley Church espouses) the Gov can control housing affordability as you agree AND that is a political decision then why would you listen to his advice ( a failed politician) over that of a successful politician (Chloe Swarbrick)? "
1. That isn't what Ashley Church espouses. In fact his letter makes suggestions about how the government could fix the housing market.
2. Why would I listen to the advice of a proven expert over someone with zero experience?
3. Ashley Church was the youngest ever person elected to the Napier Council. He served 3 terms. Like Stuart, you don't seem to know much about Ashley.
2. You can’t control house prices.
The housing policies of successive governments, both here and around the world, have been grounded on the rocks of their attempts to bring house prices under control. It can’t be done. That’s not my opinion – it’s the evidence of over 40 years of history of the New Zealand housing market. If your goal is to reduce or reverse house price inflation, the market will beat you and you’ll have needlessly expended political energy and capital on a battle that you can’t possibly win.
Do you understand the difference between house prices (from Ashley's Church's quote) and housing affordability (from your quote I replied to)? Clearly you don't, which could explain a lot. FYI, this was the headline of his letter to the PM “Dear Prime Minister, how I would ‘fix’ the housing market”.
Ashley Church's credentials are well recognised. I'm not aware that Chloe Swarbrick is called on to offer her expert opinion on any aspect of the property market.
Your reference is a Napier general election result. In a safe Labour seat in which Church stood for National. Church served for 3 terms as an elected Councillor. “He was responsible for the ‘NapierLife’ Marketing program, which was a key driver in reversing population decline and re-energising economic activity in Hawke’s Bay during the 1990s. ” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Church#Political_career). Chloe failed in her bid at the Auckland mayoralty. She only got 7.33% of the vote. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Auckland_mayoral_election) Does that make her a 'failed politician'? I think not.
You do understand the meaning of 'affordability' and its relationship to price?
2. Ashley Church's credentials have no basis in housing affordability, the area you attribute his 'expertise'….indeed his experience is more accurately in property investment and sales and marketing, the almost antithesis of affordability.
3.Yes Chloe Swarbrick lost her first foray into local body politics and went on to succeed within national level politics whereas Mr Church never managed to progress beyond local Councillor….and we know the quality of local body politics.
4. You are welcome to hang on Mr Church 's property proclamations regarding property investment but if he wishes to make policy then he can re-offer his services to the electorate and see if he fares any better this time round, meanwhile C Swarbrick can continue to perform the role she was elected to do.
"You do understand the meaning of 'affordability' and its relationship to price?"
Yes. It is one component of many. But you really did confuse the two didn't you.
"Ashley Church's credentials have no basis in housing affordability"
Of course they do. He is a well regarded expert on property matter generally, and has written on the topic for a living.
"Yes Chloe Swarbrick lost her first foray into local body politics and went on to succeed within national level politics whereas Mr Church never managed to progress beyond local Councillor….and we know the quality of local body politics."
So by your own standard, Chloe has failed at politics. Unless you have a different standard for people you disagree with?
"You are welcome to hang on Mr Church 's property proclamations regarding property investment but if he wishes to make policy then he can re-offer his services to the electorate and see if he fares any better this time round, meanwhile C Swarbrick can continue to perform the role she was elected to do."
I don't hang my hat on anything. It is important to consider a range of viewpoints. If and when Chloe establishes her bona fides in property, I will even listen to her.
" Clearly, housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland. "
Ashley Church has presented an argument that housing affordability is better than it was 30 years ago. You have an opportunity to refute that.
" The Green Party has opened this for public discussion and feedback and put up eight options to start the debate. "
I never critiqued Green party policy. I was commenting on an article written by Chloe Swarbrick that contained her ideas about housing affordability and rent controls. I consider her opinion ill-informed, and have provided references to support that view.
“How lovely to know that your attacks on Chlöe are not personal, nor on James Shaw or the Green Party at large”
In this entire discussion I have not made any comment about James Shaw (who I admire) or the Green party generally. I have also made no mention of the Tax Payers Union, National or Act.
[Time to start moderating you because it seems that you’re pushing a nefarious agenda on this site and your comments don’t appear to be in good faith, as others have come to realise and have noted too.
Housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland.
This is a fact that does not get nullified by some historical comparison, which is a disingenuous debating trick. In addition, the comparison is arguably flawed anyway, as others have already pointed out.
I never critiqued Green party policy. I was commenting on an article written by Chloe Swarbrick that contained her ideas about housing affordability and rent controls.
Actually, Chlöe Swarbrick didn’t give or discuss any specific ideas about rent controls in her article in the Guardian. She mentioned that her party had started talking about rent controls (see the link in my comment listing 8 options to kick-off debate and consultation). And you went apeshit. When you try to refute her “ideas about housing affordability and rent controls”, by using Ashley Church as your prop – do you have any expertise of your own at all in this area? – you are, in fact, trying to critique “Green party policy”. Don’t you even realise what you’re doing here or is this part of your gaslighting MO? So far, you have not critiqued anything, but just went out on a full-scale blanket attack against the broad concept of rent control in Aotearoa-New Zealand. Quite possibly, because you’re ideologically opposed or have vested interests or both.
In this entire discussion I have not made any comment about James Shaw (who I admire) or the Green party generally.
Strictly speaking, this is correct, but I (and others here) read all your comments and I put this in context of what you’re doing here specifically in this thread. For example, starting here with your obscure Listener article that nobody else here could access: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-06-2021/#comment-1797969. Short memory? Comes with the job, I guess.
So, others and I see a pattern emerging and when challenged, you deny and obfuscate.
I have also made no mention of the Tax Payers Union, National or Act.
Not verbatim, correct again, but you mentioned/introduced Ashley Church and keep propping him up. Are you playing cute when insulting our intelligence?
The way I see it is that you are a slippery commenter who does not comment in good faith, particularly on housing affordability, rent controls, and Chlöe Swarbrick. You don’t engage in constructive debate, which is why others are wasting their time on your comments (26 so far here and going on for 3 full days now). Here is your warning: stop with this disingenuous way of commenting or take it somewhere else. Please acknowledge that you have read and understood this warning, thanks – Incognito]
There is a problem with housing affordability for the younger working age group, and it has been shown that the number of years income required to buy a house has shot up skyhigh, compared to earlier times when there was more gradual rise in line with young adults' earnings.
I think this is generally recognised and you criticising people for thinking differently makes you seem a hostile provocateur in the column. Are you a rentier yourself only concerned with your own interests or those of family or friends or clients? We are thinking about the interests of general society, it is a different perspective; it seems there is a chasm between the two sides.
gypsy You are cherry picking things to go on about, and repeat, and go on about, and… Why don't you take up building mountains out of molehills elsewhere? We want to see real housing being carried out, and not leaky stuff either, and haven't got time to indulge in acrimonious arguments with people 'vaccinated with a gramophone needle' as my Gran used to say. Please go and find yourself a good hobby where you can show off your aggression and erudition to an appreciative well-heeled audience. Body building or ultimate fighting might be to your taste.
Seamen have been known to enhance their expressive range with deck spanners – nor is their tolerance for fools infinite. But it is better not to lay one's vices off on one's profession. A certain terseness and directness of expression sometimes, perhaps.
" There is so much to read and follow and these people are a distraction "
No-one is forcing you to engage. Given your responses, I would suggest your issue is sensitivity to criticism of Chloe rather than truly believing she is more qualified to speak authoritatively on this than Ashley Church.
You have thoroughly established yourself as a bad faith commenter.
I consider her opinion ill-informed
I consider your opinion fatuous.
I would suggest you get help,
I'm sure we are all amused by
your assumption of mental health credentials you don't possess
your departure from them by offering diagnosis without consultation or consent
But it is entirely consistent with the quality of your opinions on real estate, and on Chloe Swarbrick; that is to say, not worth a moment of anybody's time.
When you try to refute her “ideas about housing affordability and rent controls”, by using Ashley Church as your prop – do you have any expertise of your own at all in this area? \
Providing expert opinion is not a 'prop'. I can just imagine your response if I had given my own opinion without support! And yes I have expertise. Considerable. But that doesn't actually matter, so I quoted from an industry professional whose analysis people actually pay for.
[So much to unpack in this short comment; a most revealing litigious comment, which should have been a short and simple acknowledgement of a Moderation note, no more, no less.
If all you do is refer to one single so-called expert without providing your own arguments and facts, yes, then it is a prop. You’re hiding behind your prop and this is the well-known authority fallacy.
My imagined response is mostly irrelevant; more importantly, imagine the response of other commenters if you had given your opinion supported with well laid out arguments and information and you had engaged in good faith; we wouldn’t be having this convo right now. But no, Ashley Church is the best thing since sliced bread, apparently, and Chlöe Swarbrick is ignorant, inexperienced, and young – “a 26 year old who has no experience”, FFS!!
So, it does actually matter that you argue from your own position of knowledge and expertise instead of hiding behind a prop. It also adds authenticity to your comments, which builds trust and respect, even when others don’t necessarily agree with you. This is the kaupapa of this site and your comments run counter to this.
So, you chose a prop that people pay for? What kind of argument is that? Should we be impressed, in awe, and stunned? Does it make his opinion any better than Chlöe Swarbrick’s who’s also paid by the people to do her job dutifully as MP? Does it make him more trustworthy and accountable?
It is a pathetic argument and we know it – Incognito]
Housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland.
Now this is a really good example of how you operate – you either don't understand the content or you deliberately misrepresent it. I have never argued affordability is or is not 'low'. What i did was introduce Ashley Church's evidence that housing is more affordable than it was 30 years ago. Chloe's article was headed " Under the government’s current plans it will be half a century before house prices return to affordability ". The point I made from the outset was that this is misleading, because housing is more affordable now than it was 30 years ago. That's why I referred to the work by Ashley Church.
[Chlöe Swarbrick correctly stated in her article that housing affordability is low. I stated the same thing (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-06-2021/#comment-1798194). Your response was to mention some silly historical comparison by Ashely Church with which you agreed, obviously. Now you’re saying “I have never argued affordability is or is not ‘low’.” You’re lying through your teeth; you attacked that statement of fact more than once!
Chlöe’s statement was about how long it might take to correct this unaffordability, a projection into the future, which you ‘countered’ with a backward statement. If that isn’t the comment of a disingenuous troll, I don’t know what is.
Now this is a really good example of how you operate – you either don’t understand the content or you deliberately misrepresent it. [my italics]
QFT
The only one who has been misleading is you – Incognito]
This is a fact that does not get nullified by some historical comparison, which is a disingenuous debating trick.
Chloe's article was headed " Under the government’s current plans it will be half a century before house prices return to affordability ". Presenting historical evidence that housing is more affordable now than 30 years ago in response to that claim is a "disingenuous debating trick"?
Seriously, I've enjoyed this little exchange. And yes, I understand the warning. It is a petulant rant from a moderator who clearly doesn't like their pets being criticized.
[Nope, you pulled the debating trick arguing against my comment that housing affordability is low, particularly in Auckland. This is undeniable and yet you deny it!? And it could indeed take decades to get down to levels that are more acceptable.
Yes, I’m sure you’ve enjoyed your little exchange with me and all those other ones with other commenters here. So far, 31 comments here. Unfortunately, you don’t want to understand the warning and rather attack the Moderator, which is a silly thing to do. Your attack is misplaced and misguided, anyway, because they are not my “pets” nor did you criticise anything. All you did was sniping and yapping.
I see that you ran some other counter-attacks on my Moderation note, which is just wasting more Moderator time. I will deal with those later, but first I will put a stop to this charade. Banned for 31 days, one day for each comment – Incognito]
You need to get over yourself. This isn’t North Korea FFS.
But you mentioned/introduced Ashley Church and keep propping him up. "
No, I responded to ad-hominem attacks on an expert commentator that were irrelevant to the post. Have you moderated those who carried on those attacks? I’ll bet you haven’t.
but I (and others here) read all your comments and I put this in context of what you’re doing here specifically in this thread.
This seems to go to the heart of your moderating. You don’t like criticism of something you agree with. But whatever you may assert, an article in the listener is not 'obscure'. I do note that criticism of any Green Party policy is now unacceptable to you. Particularly one that is supported by a reference.
Actually, Chlöe Swarbrick didn’t give or discuss any specific ideas about rent controls in her article in the Guardian.
This is arguably one of your sillier comments.
Her piece in the guardian is headed "Everyone deserves a decent, secure life. It’s time New Zealand talked about rent controls." Her article links to Green Party policy on housing, which includes control of rents!
I could go on, but you have form that I was warned about by other commenters here when i was new. In the case of this convo, I understand it goes back to your silly comment here.
[This is a note for future reference.
Indeed, this is not North Korea, because here you can freely comment and argue your opinion without fear of repercussions. FFS.
Moderators here are more concerned about ad homs at other commenters and, above all, Authors. If somebody doubts your ‘expert’ this is hardly the stuff that would trigger moderation unless it kills debate and/or creates a bad vibe. Moderation usually starts with a warning, anyway.
Moderation is all about commenting behaviour, not about disagreeing at all. You’ve got it all wrong. I really don’t care if you want to criticize any Green Party policy but that’s not what you did here; you attacked a Green MP in a dishonest way without proper arguments other than your prop Ashley Church.
It is rather puzzling that you think so highly of Ashley Church and think his opinion on the matter is definitive and some kind of ‘industry standard’ since you wrote about a week ago:
That is a personal opinion provided based on someone’s experience. That has value, but it is certainly not definitive.
The Listener article that you quoted was “obscure” because it was inaccessible to others here, me included, i.e. it was hidden. This is an accepted meaning of “obscure”.
Indeed, Chlöe Swarbrick and the Green Party want (us) to talk about rent controls. The Green Party website lists 8 options to kick-start the discussion. You did not counter any of those options. You want to kill off any debate about rent controls full stop. No discussion needed around any of the options. No need to evaluate the supporting material provided. Just abort it ASAP. All rent control is bad, according to you, without actually arguing any specifics in the GP discussion document. We should simply take Ashley Church’s word for it. Yeah, right!
If you don’t want to debate rent controls here on this site, then you can leave it or go somewhere else. Others may want to discuss it and don’t need you riding roughshod all over the thread and diverting it away to Ashley Church of all people, i.e. without you diversion trolling here.
No, you cannot go on, because you have now been banned and when you come back you can pull your head in.
Yes, I saw your comment at the time (https://thestandard.org.nz/about-trevor-mallard/#comment-1791405) and thought it was silly and I took it a face value. So, you were new here, were you? Not only do you treat other commenters here with contempt, you also treat a Moderator as a fool. Let’s stop playing your silly little game, because we both know how this will end, don’t we? – Incognito]
No, you have not even begun to answer Chloe's point, the crisis of unaffordability, nor are the opinions of a dishonest extreme right provocateur of interest.
housing is more affordable now than it was 33 years ago
House price increases and income levels do not determine affordability. You have ignored interest rates for one. And providing a single comment from a moment in time 6 years ago is not a credible argument.
Your comment is precisely the reason you need to be listening to more informed voices.
Edit – if you enjoy snap shot comments, here’s one for you:
You trying to peddle the views of a dishonest redneck on a left-leaning site really takes the cake.
you need to be listening to
No, no I don't. You and the revolting Mr Church can find somewhere else to peddle your facile lies.
Here, we are concerned with making progress on the clusterfuck people like you and the revolting Mr Church have made of what was once a functional and well-ordered society.
If you're not with that program, maybe you don't belong here. People on the BFD are apparently stupid enough to pay attention to you – you'll be right at home.
I rate Chloe infinitely more trustworthy and better informed than either of you – you constitute a mighty low bar.
Secondly – he knows his stuff when it comes to property. In the context of this discussion, that's all that matters, notwithstanding your irrational dislike for the man.
Secondly – he knows his stuff when it comes to property.
You have produced no evidence whatsoever to support this dubious assertion – on the contrary, you have pointed out his conflicts with the well respected Chloe Swarbrick, and it has surfaced in the course of discussion that he is a member of that rat pack, the so-called taxpayer's union. With the possible exception of the Nazi party or Nambla you would look long and hard to find an organization less deserving of public confidence.
Now, have you anything rational to offer beyond beyond your tawdry and utterly discredited appeal to authority?
Look – I posted a good sensible column from Ms Swarbrick, on housing policy.
You rubbished her, without addressing anything she said, and wheeled out the despicable person of Ash Church.
As you seem to possess a pathological dislike for the guy, I would have thought you would have known more about him. Including:
He is a frequent commentator on property matters across multiple forums.
He is a past CEO of the Auckland Property Investors Association.
He is a past CEO of the Property Institute of NZ.
All of which make him competent to advise on property investment – and make his advice self-interested and unworthy of consideration in relation to public policy.
The wankers and property speculators who have created the present housing crisis are not competent in regard to housing policy, which thanks to their antisocial input now stands in need of frankly heroic intervention, as Chloe points out, and which you would know if you had read and understood her column instead of trying to crawl up Asley Church's spotty bottom.
Is the penny finally starting to drop yet?
The function of government is not to enrich sociopathic assholes like Mr Church – nor yet their lamentable lickspittle lackeys neither.
We've had this type of commenter before haven't we. Can't be convinced of anything because it doesn't suit them to think or change. Could be someone working for the right, working for NZ Initiative, or even the Treasury. You can't convince them of anything that doesn't enhance their position. And the other thing they like to do is adopt the superior position! They have all the facts and understand them thoroughly, and you are either ignorant, or missing the point, or putting the wrong construction on the wording.
It's your time if you want to keep replying, but remember we already have Alwyn. Do we want another wilfully ignorant person here with commenters wasting their time on them? There is so much to read and follow and these people are a distraction; I believe they set out to be and possibly have a modus operandi that they follow that presses our buttons, but fail to ring a warning bell in our heads.
" I posted a good sensible column from Ms Swarbrick, on housing policy. "
And I refuted two key elements of her 'policy' using the writings of someone far more eminently qualified. Chloe is 26 years old. I'm not aware she has ever owned a house, let alone had any experience of managing housing as a market.
You refuted nothing, instead resting your flimsy smear on the reputation of a liar and a profiteer.
We can forgive fools who make errors through ignorance, but not those whose motive for wrongdoing is profit.
Church's knowledge of property is like the wolf's knowledge of sheepfarming – exhaustive, but motivated by self interest, not general prosperity.
Address Chloe's argument without reference to that charlatan – if your object is to actually discuss housing policy and not exhibit your unseemly enthusiasm for that despicable grifter.
Yes your hatred is truly psychopathic. That doesn't affect in any way the expertise of the source.
Your failure to engage in actual argument is typical of trolls – without your false prophet you are incapable of grappling with the issues the surround housing, and fall back on ad homs, first of Ms Swarbrick, and now of me.
Housing is, frankly, a mess. As Swarbrick notes, and your idol is unable to refute, it is going to take fifty years on current trends, for housing to return to reasonable affordability – which given the way variability affects economic predictions over time, is tantamount to never.
Property investors and real estate companies are largely to blame for this. They are also to blame for many of our homeless, and those the government is presently lodging in dodgy motels as a stopgap. They are freeloaders, whose business model was built on tax free capital gain, but neither the homelessness nor the tax evasion is the greatest damage they have done to New Zealand. That would be the massive inflation they have caused, and continue to cause – some 30% this year. Anything over 20% or so is usually referred to as hyperinflation.
This imposes massive deadweight costs right across the economy, money that should be circulating productively is sucked into the black hole of property. There will be no rising tide, even with the current dairy receipt boom, while property is sucking all the liquidity out of the economy.
It needs to be addressed – but we fully understand why the guilty parties, Church and his fellow travelers, are desperate that it not be.
Your disparagement of Swarbrick is part of an extended campaign on behalf of the self-styled Taxpayers Union that goes back to its ill-natured and ineffectual attacks on Mojo Mathers. How proud you must be to be part of that group of momentarily unincarcerated villains.
I was commenting on an article written by Chloe Swarbrick that contained her ideas about housing affordability and rent controls.
I consider her opinion ill-informed, and have provided references to support that view.
You, on the other hand, have engaged in an ad-hominem diatribe that reveals an irrational hatred of real estate agents, property investors, the Taxpayers Union, none of whom I have even commented on.
I would suggest you get help, but no doubt you've got some deep set hatred of anyone who could help you.
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David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
RNZ News As Israel presses ahead with strikes in Rafah and seizing the Rafah crossing from Egypt, aid agencies are sounding the alarm of a “catastrophic humanitarian situation”. Rafah was “significant” because it was the only part in Gaza that had not been terribly damaged by the conflict, United Nations ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna Cooke, Honorary Fellow, School of the Environment, The University of Queensland We feel ecological grief when we lose places, species or ecosystems we value and love. These losses are a growing threat to mental health and wellbeing globally. We all see ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shauna Brail, Associate Professor, Institute for Management & Innovation, University of Toronto A shift to hybrid and remote work continues to affect worker presence in Toronto’s downtown.(Shutterstock) Downtown Toronto, the core of Canada’s largest city, continues to reel from the lingering ...
Responding to an Auditor-General's report slamming failures in the administration of the 2023 General Election, Taxpayers’ Union Policy and Public Affairs Manager, James Ross, said: ...
The Taxpayers’ Union says the Beehive need to lead by example, following reports of more than $50,000 spent upgrading video conferencing equipment and furniture in the Prime Minister’s office. Taxpayers’ Union Campaign Manager, Connor Molloy, ...
An objective list of the 50 most powerful people in New Zealand, as judged by the Spinoff Editorial Board. It’s power list season, baby, and we want in on the action. Sure, there’s the rich list and the powerful “c-suite” list and the young people with power (hmmm) but here, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thalia Anthony, Professor of Law, University of Technology Sydney ShutterstockThis article contains information on deaths in custody and the names of deceased people, and describes ongoing colonial violence towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. First Nations people in Australia ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Simpson, Senior Lecturer in Criminology, Macquarie University Netflix Baby Reindeer’s phenomenal success has much to do with its writer and lead, Richard Gadd, who plays Donny in a tender semi-autobiographical account of sexual abuse, harassment and stalking. Gadd’s story has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Laureate Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle KarolinaGrabowska/Pexels If you didn’t have food allergies as a child, is it possible to develop them as an adult? The short answer is yes. But the reasons why are much ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Moon, Professor of History, Auckland University of Technology Ans Westra, self-portrait, c. 1963. National Library ref AWM-0705-F They try but invariably fail – those writers who believe they are capable of encapsulating in prose or verse the essence of ...
Stewart Sowman-Lund looks at the growing concern around the world in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. What’s all this? When Covid-19 arrived on our shores in early 2020, some argued we were too slow, or crucially, ill-prepared for a pandemic. So ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Franco Montalto, Professor of Civil, Architectural and Environmental Engineering and Director, Sustainable Water Resource Engineering Laboratory, Drexel University Water runs into a storm drain in a Los Angeles alley on Aug. 19, 2023, during Tropical Storm Hilary.Citizen of the Planet/Universal Images ...
The inquest into the death of Gore toddler Lachlan Jones has turned up a new witness who says he saw two teenagers and a small child in a high vis vest in the area where the boy’s body was found the day he died. Lachie’s body was discovered face up ...
Stories from the tenancy trenches, featuring spider infestations, cupboard rats and same-sex discrimination. Lucy’s brother was living in a damp 1930s building in Mt Eden where “he had to tie the cupboard doors closed so the rats didn’t get in”. Although he shared custody of his six-year-old son, his property ...
Simeon Brown, Chris Luxon, and Wayne Brown climbed into a hole and announced a plan to solve Auckland’s water woes. This is how it’ll work. New Zealand’s pipes are munted. They’re cracked and leaking, and struggling to handle all the extra poos excreted by our rising population. It’s a big, ...
After replacing a fifth of their caucus in just four months, the Greens’ opportunity to reset, reshuffle and refocus on the Government is quickly slipping away The post Persistent Green Party scandals delay caucus reset appeared first on Newsroom. ...
I knew Taika Waititi quite well when he was a kid. His mother lived in a tall narrow house in Aro St, and my youngest sister had a similar house two doors along. They were both single mums, they each had a son aged seven. Taika and my nephew Stepan ...
Opinion: “As time passes, knowledge of the circumstances of the August 2016 outbreak will fade and its immediate impact will be lost.” This statement is from the 2017 report of the Official Inquiry into the Havelock North campylobacteriosis outbreak. The then National-led government established the inquiry after the outbreak left ...
Opinion: Nicholas Khoo looks at two key points in the high-stakes foreign policy pact debate – and asks if NZ can engage with as little drama as possible. The post Where to next for the Aukus ruckus? appeared first on Newsroom. ...
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Opinion: ‘Reference-class forecasting’ is at the heart of improving pricing a project and identifying the expected timeframe but it doesn’t appear to be in use here The post ‘Think fast and act slowly’ is failing big projects appeared first on Newsroom. ...
What do a sombrero in Argentina and cognitive driving tests have in common? Don’t worry, we’re not setting up a bad joke. Hinengaro Clinic dementia clinician Gregory Winkelman has the answer on today’s episode of The Detail. “We ask a patient’s spouse or son or daughter: If you went to ...
Wellington long jumper Phoebe Edwards is back and she’s having fun again. Until this year, Edwards, a top athlete in her teens, had never competed as a senior athlete in New Zealand. In March, the 26-year-old won a national long jump title in a lifetime best of 6.28m after ...
ANALYSIS:By Olli Hellmann, University of Waikato When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day today on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also to mark a defining event for national identity. The battle of Gallipoli against ...
By Robin Martin, RNZ News reporter A New Zealand local authority, Whanganui District Council, has passed a motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, condemnation of all acts of violence and terror against civilians on both sides of the conflict and the immediate return of hostages. It comes as ...
Asia Pacific Report The Aotearoa chapter of the Women’s International league for Peace and Freedom (WILPF) has appealed to the New Zealand government to call out Israel over the “cruel and barbaric use of force” in Gaza and demand a permanent ceasefire. The league’s open letter was sent to Prime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will invest $566 million over a decade on data, maps and other tools to promote exploration and development in Australia’s resources industry. The project will fund “the first comprehensive map of what’s ...
Asia Pacific Report Following an open letter by Auckland University academics speaking out in support of their students’ right to protest against the genocidal Israeli war on Gaza, a group of academics at Otago University have today also called on New Zealand academic institutions to “repair colonial violence” and end ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Linda J. Graham, Professor and Director of the Centre for Inclusive Education, Queensland University of Technology Ryan Tauss/ Unsplash, CC BY Two male students have been expelled from a Melbourne private school for their involvement in a list ranking female students. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The Reserve Bank is now assuming Australians will see no interest rate cuts this year – and quite possibly none before the next federal election, due next May. That’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Hayward, Emeritus Professor of Public Policy, RMIT University The Victorian budget offered more of the same on Tuesday, with the only change being how the budget papers were packaged. The usual shrink wrap was gone, hinting at savings in the pages ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Coalition is demanding extensive amendments to the government’s legislation targeting non-citizens who refuse to co-operate with their removal. In a dissenting report to the senate inquiry into the legislation, the Coalition says it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vanita Yadav, Senior Research Fellow, Urban Transformations Research Centre, Western Sydney University Brett Boardman/Belvoir The complex and grappling issue of violence against women takes centre stage in the soul-stirring solo dance drama Nayika: A Dancing Girl. During a dinner conversation ...
Disruption to patient care from a nationwide junior doctors strike is bordering on unsafe, a senior doctor claims, despite what health officials say. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Diepstraten, Senior Research Officer, Blood Cells and Blood Cancer Division, Walter and Eliza Hall Institute Ground Picture/Shutterstock The anti-cancer drug abemaciclib (also known as Vernezio) has this month been added to the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) to treat certain ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dominic McAfee, Postdoctoral researcher, marine ecology, University of Adelaide Robbie Porter, OzFish Unlimited Around Australia, hundreds of people are coming together to help a once-prized, but decimated and largely forgotten marine ecosystem. They’re busy restoring Australia’s native oyster and mussel reefs. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Webb, Lecturer, Centre for Astrophysics and Supercomputing, Swinburne University of Technology Austin Human/Unsplash How does Earth stop meteors from hitting Earth and hurting people? –Asher, 6 years 11 months, New South Wales Alright, let’s embark on a meteor ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rory Mulcahy, Associate Professor of Marketing, University of the Sunshine Coast Professional sports organisations regularly promote and develop initiatives to support diversity, equity and inclusion. While sport has the power to change attitudes by sparking conversations about political issues and social ...
Comment: The weekly Monday post-Cabinet press conference is a useful forum for observing Christopher Luxon and how he is developing into the job of Prime Minister. He attempts to convey the impression of a man of action, speaking fast, delivering memorised National Party strategies in a connect-the-slogans kind of way, ...
Double votes, missing ballot boxes, tired tech and stressed staff: how tick-tallying went astray at last year’s election. Cast your mind back to November 2023, that bleary-eyed post-election period duringwhichwewaited, andwaited, for a coalition deal to be hammered out. A distraction from the hotel-hopping of our ...
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-auckland-30000-jabs-behind-vaccine-schedule-hipkins-pleads-for-priority-people-to-step-forward/EU7BLNG3U73GWXVYZ4KEYEUCSQ/
Stop pleading with people who can't be bothered, or don't want to be vaccinated and allow people who want to be vaccinated to get the jabs.
Also stop sending out invites to people from the DHB and the GP at the same time to the same people. One could understand if there is some confusion if you can’t even get that right.
Hard to imagine the vaccine programme failing given the heavy coercion via media, and all that censorship.
I'm fully expecting vaccine lotteries similar to those in the US and Canada to be rolled out next although it might be illegal here at present. Be surprised to see medical Drs speaking out against this type of manipulation if it does occur
Well i would be happy if they could just co-ordinate enough to send the same person to two different places at the same time because they are ovbiously on more then one list.
After all is that not what a new IT system was invented? I have heard that from a few people now, specifically those that appear on different lists as they are healthcare workers, or in a particular age group and then again in a different group due to health reasons.
I honestly don't care if people go for the vaccine or not – unless it is made mandatory you can't force people to get it, but you can prioritise those that WANT the vaccine, and then sweep up those that may change their mind over the time.
I however am not happy about getting people back from Melbourne without a requirement to either go into quarantine or self isolate, but then the risk is acceptable to us unvaccinated. Right?
… and all that censorship.
What censorship? I've not heard of any. Unless you're referring to the conspiracy theories which people are rightfully encouraged to ignore.
I agree with Sabine. Stop wasting time on the lazy and the doubters. I have a close relative who is 77 with underlying conditions (not overly serious but they exist) and he tried to get a jab from the one and only vaccine clinic in the North Shore region. He was turned down on the basis he was out of the zone. He lives in Devonport.
Based on that premise it means all over 65s who live in the south of the region are currently out of luck – unless you received an official invitation to make a booking which only applies to a portion of the local elderly. Nobody seems to know why they got an invite and not the rest of us. The invitees I know don't know either.
Bit of a mess here.
What censorship? I've not heard of any.
Excellent! It's working then.
Clever response, Rosemary. It's very hard to identify good censorship.
On the other hand, and by the same logic, how do we know we are being censored at all?
How do you prove that something is not happening, especially when the proponents are saying it is happening but you don't know it is because that is the nature of censorship, od secrecy, and dare I say it, of conspiracy?
I see the answer might be found below at #6 from Isaac. The key to it all……..
Coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
What heavy coercion via media? If some do feel heavily coerced about anything in the NZ media, my advice is to limit their exposure to said media – a kind of reverse censorship. It's really easy as no-one can be coerced to 'consume' media offerings.
I do hope that NZ's optional COVID-19 vaccination programme achieves it aims of limiting the spread of COVID-19 and/or the severity of symptoms, just like other optional vaccination programmes to protect against rotavirus, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, hepatitis B, Haemophilus influenzae type b, pneumococcal disease, chickenpox, measles, mumps, rubella, human papillomavirus, and shingles.
No vaccine is 100% effective, as they all rely on immune systems, but their ‘prevent and protect‘ functions are, on balance, beneficial to human health.
If you want to get vaccinated, or vaccinate your children, then go for it – I'm looking forward to getting my COVID-19 jabs – no (heavy) coercion via media required.
"What heavy coercion via media?"
Where have you been living for the past year? We get daily news about everything vaccine in the major print, radio, tv and internet news.
Anyone with a negative view towards the vaccine is labelled "anti-vax", "vaccine hesitant", or a "conspiracy theorist".
Anyone taking a critical look at what the media has been saying for months should clearly be able to see this bias.
Someone with a negative view towards anything would be "anti", or at least "hesitant", about that thing, no?
How would reporting that be "bias"?
Maui – yes, there's plenty of MSM coverage about COVID-19 vaccines, both positive and negative. As the global pandemic death toll closes in on 4 million tragic deaths (with the realistic death toll much higher) that's hardly surprising.
As far as I can tell no Ministry of Health staff or reputable media outlets are concealing the fact that the Pfizer vaccine is effective for ‘only‘ ~19 of every 20 recipients, or that there is a (very very) tiny risk of significant side-effects. Just type "COVID vaccine side-effects" into a Google search to see for yourself.
So if you believe that the media coverage amounts to "heavy coercion" = use of heavy force or heavy threats (to do what?), then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Tbh, it saddens me that you, or anyone, might feel coerced by the release of factual information about the effects and side-effects of COVID-19 vaccines.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-side-effects-and-reactions
Fwiw, vaccine hesitancy is fairly commonsense, and shouldn’t be confused or lumped in with ‘anti-vax’.
Maybe peer pressure or social pressure are better terms? There’s always pressure to conform to the majority view. I have to confess that I often like to give the finger to majority views and social ‘expectation’ especially when it there appears to have no solid foundation. I’ve learned to resist that temptation though because of OOS 😉
Hard to imagine anyone wanting the 'vaccine programme' to fail, but…
Yep Incognito, pressure/encouragement from peers and wider society (including government agencies) to get vaccinated against COVID will be significant; certainly far greater than peer pressure to not get vaccinated.
Just thought 'heavy coercion' was ott – more appropriate to describe the treatment of WWI conscientious objectors, 1951 Waterfront workers, or indeed events such as the Dawn and Urewera raids.
Can't rule out the possibility that there are instances of "heavy coercion" to get vaccinated against COVID-19, but imho such a claim should be supported by at least one NZ example.
I support the freedom of any NZer to remain unvaccinated, although it's reasonable that those in critical border control and healthcare roles who choose not to, or are unable to get vaccinated must accept redeployment to duties with a relatively low risk of COVID-19 infection.
I too have a propensity to be suspicious of majority views. Regarding this global pandemic, is there a credible minority view (not Plan B) that's advocating against the widespread use of effective COVID-19 vaccines?
Potentially useful prediction of how much of the population needs to be vaccinated for herd immunity.
Will be interesting to see if, like the 1918 'Spanish flu', this pandemic burns out, or whether it settles into a (hopefully low-level) 'virus-vaccine arms race'.
Good news for the Left, Socialists look to be winning in elections in Peru, despite vicious attacks and smears from the local MSM….of course.
Socialist Castillo clings on to tight lead in Peru election as count nears end
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/socialist-castillo-holds-slim-lead-peru-presidential-vote-count-reaches-tense-2021-06-08/
The other side to the PHARMAC story by somebody who has at least has some inkling how things work – no mention of cycling & walking bridges anywhere 🙂
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/125379927/stop-blaming-pharmac–wed-be-worse-off-without-it
Funny thing is though, that this is true for both, Pharmac is ok for those that don't need extra super duper special medication, but for those that need it, Pharmac does not work quite so well. And for those that had their working meds changed to a cheaper alternative without consultation, Pharmacs decision can be well say challenging.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118814341/bipolar-disorder-patients-suffer-terrible-side-effects-after-pharmac-drug-brand-switch
But then, if this does not affect certain people, these same people might not give a dime that someone else is suffering.
Virtually every drug has side effects and often people have to stop taking them, luckily for me Pharmac had a second choice but because it was more expensive needed a specialist sign off.
A bit baffled over a generic switch , but not surprised the concerns were from people with a 'mood related ' disorder or have been on a previous drug for a long time can forget the original adjustment wasnt easy either.
Placebo and Nocebo effects show no active ingredient or no change in drug can still trigger side effects
Another side to the PHARMAC story from someone who would benefit from them being much more generous with funding certain miracle drugs and procedures if you read the media reports. I research the relevant medical publications and expert assessments relevant to my condition and conclude that PHARMAC decisions are robust and clinically sound in this respect.
quite correct incognito. the usual moaners on here looking for a reason to whinge, should get out and pay full $$ for their meds. would make them stop and be very slightly grateful for pharmac(but probably not, too full of their own misery). their will ALWAYS be patients with unusual medical problems that need meds that arent subsidized, but with the HUGE range of meds for all sorts of conditions, that really is unavoidable. as someone who takes lots of meds, I am grateful for pharmac and how much they save me. a couple of the meds arent subsidized but winz often helps, and I figure if pharmac is saving me $50 on every ventolin inhaler, I can afford to put something toward meds they dont subsidize. too many on here are constantly whineing about how the gov isnt doing enough..get off your arse and help yourselves!!
Why does nobody go after the drug greedy companies, $70k a year for the latest alzheimer medicines, hell if they sold it for $10k a year I bet they would sell more than 7 times the amount.
the guys in the US ask that one too.
Best one to ask this question is this Lady here……
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/katie-porter-big-pharma-whiteboard-b1850248.html
You think drug companies would be made more popular meerely by planning to increase alzheimer's patient numbers by 7 fold?
Not sure what you mean . My point us once a drug is developed selling more of it at a cheaper rate must increase profits, but they chose to be arsholes!!
If the UN had balls or teeth they would sort this out . If companies are gouging fuck them and their patents just steal thier recipe.
I have this strange belief that the demand for alzheimers treatment is less related to price and more related to the number of people with the condition. Especially in NZ where there is public funding.
But if we take your reasoning as true then they are apparently surpressing alzheimers by 7x just by over charging. Maybe they could be asked to reduce the condition further by over charging even more?
lol, how very anti-capitalist. There are some things we are not allowed to touch, and big pharma is one of them. AIDS drugs in Africa being a prime example, but covid vaccines is fast catching up.
Maybe "we are not allowed to touch", but 'big pharma' occasionally takes its lumps.
And to think Glaxo started in NZ – "…symbolises the culture of innovation that New Zealand is known for around the world."
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2021/01/26/2164640/0/en/Drug-Guardians-Exposes-the-Growing-Number-of-Lawsuits-against-Giant-Pharma.html
And our very own favourite Pfizer has had it's day in court…https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/biggest-pharmaceutical-lawsuits/
…but if anything goes awry in the Dominican Republic with the Covid vaccine….Pfizer has well and truly protected it's butt.
https://www.keionline.org/35485
Pfizer has asked some Latin American countries for “indemnity from civil cases, meaning that the company would not be held liable for rare adverse effects or for its own acts of negligence, fraud or malice,” according to a recent report from the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. “This includes those linked to company practices – say, if Pfizer sent the wrong vaccine or made errors during manufacturing.” In comments featured in the Bureau of Investigative Journalism report, Georgetown Law professor Lawrence Gostin explained that “[s]ome liability protection is warranted, but certainly not for fraud, gross negligence, mismanagement, failure to follow good manufacturing practices.”
(A copy of the contract is embedded in the article, and is written in both Spanish and English.)
And yet we NZers can't get enough of (some of) those wonder(ful) drugs!
Never heard of Dr Ben Goldacre?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma
Chinese medicine to be included under the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act (HPCAA). Now that's a big step for the government.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/health/5/388498
What does the Act do?
Essentially the Act is about protection of the public – makes sure that all those who are covered by it have appropriate qualifications, standards and scopes of practice etc and prevents others who do not have the right training from being able to call themselves a doctor, nurse, physiotherapist or whatever other health profession.
The Act covers all the health professions but until now the Chinese medicine practitioners have not been covered by it.
Its not medicine, its folk cures as my (indian) doctor calls them.
Apart from acupuncture.
5,000 years of empirical practice, theory development and building knowledge. Not to diss folk medicine but TCM is a form of medicine that requires training to n complex theory and practice. What qualifications in TCM does your doctor have?
So, lip service to the woo-believers while patients, families and communities are not only left to fund their own drugs, they're forced to stump up to administer life saving therapies to friends and loved ones.
/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/415797/without-keytruda-30-deaths-a-week-in-nz-from-cancer-lung-foundation
Because Keytruda is unfunded in New Zealand for all cancers other than advanced melanoma: The Ministry of Health has directed that public hospitals are not to administer unfunded medicines and therefore Keytruda can only be given in a private hospital setting.
This directive adds another $27,000 on top of the $60,000 which pays for the administration, scans, oncologist fees and GST for the private hospital.
https://www.bowelcancerfoundation.org.nz/immunotherapy
For reducing fossil fuels use coastal shipping? The Jane Gifford, a dainty looking scow is still going.
https://www.junctionmag.co.nz/junctionmag/2020/7/31/the-historic-jane-gifford-scow
http://www.janegifford.org.nz/
My granddad had that boat for a few years.
Looks like one of those reliable usefully shaped workhorses of the sea that could come into its own again do you think?
https://www.ultimatenzsoccer.com/Onehunga/other_vessels_of_note.htm
I think ‘Jane’ had masts and they took them down. So sail and fuel enhancement – batteries?
Not to forget our war prize.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamir_(ship)#World_War_II_and_beyond
What a busy, demanding job being a seaman on a sailing ship eh!
Well. It could be, at times.
An awful lot of time spent waiting for wind and tide to be in the right direction, and for loading and discharging.
A big contrast to a modern container ship working 24/7 day and night every day of the year.
I worked years ago with many of the old scow sailors and several people who were on the Pamir.
Most of them much preferred the more relaxed, old days.as
Plenty of stories of days in the pub, waiting for wind and tide. One swore that the story of a scow spearing an, occupied, farmers dunny with the bowsprit while tacking up a creek, was true.
In the pub, after a few beers, that would have expanded into a true saga in technicolour.
Can't say to much.
I need to protect the guilty.
Yeah, she had sails, but an engine too. You use the sails when you've got a bit of room, not up tidal creeks and such. Electrification is I think a later step for improving transport fuel efficiency – just getting freight off the roads is the first step, and given industry resistance, you'd want to see how that battle played out before electrifying our largely extinct coastal shipping.
I think the government hasn't really given much thought to coastal shipping. You'd want to develop Clifford Bay or somewhere nearby, as the fairweather ferry port, and move freight through there when conditions allow – knocks a big chunk of fuel out of the interisland equation. And fuel = emissions.
Oh dear Clifford Bay again. I knew it was a bit closer for trucks and the ferry. Now you say that it would be a better port from the weather situation. If it was open could Picton still be used by inter-islander for tourist purposes and the rail link? Would that be viable? Picton needs to use its investment in seagoing ventures, and they keep the town going. It would be bad for it to divert too much elsewhere.
A port outside the Sounds saves about an hour on the ferry, together with some wake erosion. Picton will still be needed in strong easterlies apparently, so it doesn't close. Less ferries and more leisure craft can still keep it prosperous.
I seem to have a vague memory of Gerry Brownlee selling the land at Clifford bay that was being held fr a port. My understanding was, if a breakwater was built, then the ferry trip from wellington is shorter, the trip to christchurch is shorter and the rail wagons don't have to be hauled over the Dashwood incline.
The "Janey!" – Do you have the pamphlet written about her and the crew? A real work horse. The Warkworth Cement works started by Wilsons was dependent upon her fetching shell from the shell banks at Miranda in the Firth of Thames – where the godwits now feed. She is of course back at her old locality on the Maharangi River in Warkworth. My wife is an descendant of Davy Darroch who built her. Named after the ship which brought Davy and his father George and mother Nicholas to NZ in 1842. (Jane Gifford was the wife of the owner of the ship). Davy's tools are held in the Warkworth museum.
I still have a copy of The Janey and Her Skipper – written by Ivy Collins – Reg's wife.
He worked her pretty hard, loading shell and shingle by barrow as often as not. My understanding was he let her go when the rules changed requiring him to carry an engineer – which must have affronted someone who lost so much hair nursing a temperamental diesel into life with a blowtorch.
I enjoyed reading a lent copy of it from a g'son of a former crew member. The family here have a fond attachment to the Janey and have a copy of the painting of the Jane Gifford and The Duchess of Argyll arrival in Auckland on the wall.
Here she is approaching her berth at the Warkworth Wharf.
Got to love anything schooner rigged – they always look like they're going a million miles an hour.
She's popular.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jane+Gifford
Amongst the photogenic pictures of 'Jane' there were ads for Omaha Beach's Jane Gifford Place and this was put up only 2 years ago.
Imagine waking to the gentle sounds of surf, leaping out of bed, a 3-minute stroll to watch the sun rise on the pristine, white sands of Omaha Beach. Walk your dog with a friend, cast your fishing rod or catch a wave, then wander back via the café
I hope that people have finally caught up with the idea of – a Sea level rise b Weather bombs c King/queen tides more frequent d Huge waves from local or distant weather events. Just not what you want to wake up to and definitely not 'the gentle sounds of surf'.
I hope too the Rip van Winkels don't wake up with a shock, and go waah Council, government, come and help us now we have been foolish and wilfully ignorant and invested in wet sand. Even the bible warns against that though note; it isn't the real estate 'profession' bible.
..shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Matthew 7: 24-27
Sea level rise is not a worry in the South Island, it just couldn't keep up with the tectonic plates.
Sounds helpful, for this low lying Christchurch resident! Do you have a reference?
The actuaries at insurance companies dont seem to agree with your reckons.
"Christchurch and Dunedin have the largest numbers of homes affected by premiums quadrupling or worse – at least 4850 and 3100, respectively, after 13-14cm of sea level rise."
The timing of insurance retreat chart is worth attention.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123560377/homes-to-start-losing-access-to-insurance-within-15-years—report
Adrian If that was meant to be ironic – on this sensitive matter you should have put /sarc at the end.
Damn – I've never sailed on her – my marine career was mostly down south. Did the Foveaux yacht race a couple of seasons – never got up to Warkworth.
The historical reason for Blenheim being where it is comes from the fact that it was the first firm land suitable for wagons to unload cargoes from coastal scows such as the Edwin Fox etc.
It would be interesting to see the Clifford Bay proposal revisited in these changing times.
Had my first on Tuesday but sadly, I'm no Magneto.
https://twitter.com/WorldofIsaac/status/1402679431282499594
https://twitter.com/Tylerjoelb/status/1402288748575002632
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1402284824279367690.html
Can't resist. Tenpenny ain't the full quid.
Tuppence short of a shilling.
"' no one there looks like they are going to be splitting the atom anytime soon ".
A chocolate fish to the first to name the TV series that comes from.
?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2790184/characters/nm0000437
Marvellous, another true believer, still hands down the best, most beautifully written damn show ever. Where do you want it sent to Joe?.
"' no one there looks like they are going to be splitting the atom anytime soon ".
A chocolate fish to the first to name the TV series that comes from.
Adrian True Detective and I have to tell the truth sir, I looked it up.
Superparamagnetic nanoparticles in vaccines?
So last decade.
Nice work by NZ (UoA) scientists in 2004 – published in Nature, no less. But iron oxide particles belong in pigeon beaks, not in humans, which is where they will be if Big Pharma has its wicked way. No-one's proven that these iron oxide-based vaccine delivery systems can't turn people into compliant 'pigeons' – keep your guard up.
Further studies eh – the evil, heartless bastards
Cooo.
So I shouldn't give up on my Magneto aspirations just yet?
/
So I shouldn't give up on my Magneto aspirations just yet?
Hold fast to your dreams, Sunshine….and if all else fails there's Magnetic implants!
Its an actual thing.
Spite. There is a fair amount of it in politics and surrounds.
Interesting thoughts – https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/queensbirthday/audio/2018798701/can-any-good-come-from-spite
quiztest.
In this game you’re told you’re playing a game against somebody and that person has been given a pot of money which they must share with you. They may have $10 and make you an offer of $2.
“And then you have a choice, you can choose to take that $2, which is real money, walk away and buy something, or you can decide to turn the offer down.
But if you turn the offer down, then you leave with no money, and the other person also leaves with no money…”
“But what they found was that if people were offered $2 out of a $10 pot then around half of people would turn that down.”
This held true even for larger amounts of money, he says.
“An American group then did it where it was $100 a game. And they still found that when people were offered 20 bucks out of that 100, around half would still turn it down. So even if there's quite a lot of money on the line people will still spitefully turn it down.
“They turned it down because they didn't want the other person to get more money than they did.”
This could simply be a fairness instinct manifesting itself, but other games show a darker impulse.
The ‘Joy of Destruction’ game is when everybody has a task and earns the same amount for it.
“At the end, you're asked under conditions of anonymity whether you'd like to destroy some of the other person's money just because you can do and about 40 percent of people spitefully choose to destroy the other person's money – just because they can.”
What do you think. A bit of something, is worth more than a lot of nothing, all things being equal?
I have observed the instinct in cases where the person wasn't going to get anything but was simply jealous of someone they don't know being fortunate. The one where people will reject quite large sums still surprises me though. I simply don't understand the psychology of such people.
In terms of the spite behavior though I can offer the variant I never understood either. An acquaintance of mine bought an old Rolls Royce a couple of years ago. It was about 30 years old and it only cost him about $15,000, ie the price of a 3 year old basic car. He just wanted to own one once in his life and it being old and a bit unreliable didn't bother him.
It was totally ruined for him because he couldn't park it anywhere in Wellington. It would have some idiot run a coin down the side, just for spite it appeared. It happened to him 4 or 5 times in just a couple of months. Why did people behave that way? He got rid of it because the behavior of other people who were simply jealous of someone they didn't even know was too much for him.
Nobody was earning, it was (potentially) fortuitous gain…the logical and fair thing to do was offer to split it….id suggest if that was done the uptake would be near universal.
I wonder if the outcome would have been different if it had been apples, pies or marbles, for example, instead of dollars. We seem to have an other-worldly relationship with money.
Chloe is in good form in the Guardian – a bit of common sense on renting.
Under the government’s current plans it will be half a century before house prices return to affordability
I suspect Ashley Church may be rather better informed about housing affordability than Chloe. And I'd suggest Chloe may need to do more reading if she is seriously advocating for rent controls.
I suspect Ashley Church is not an elected MP with an electorate seat who is in Parliament for the whole of Aotearoa-New Zealand. You sure make some silly comments.
Being an elected MP does not make Chloe any more educated on housing affordability. That is abundantly clear from her comments.
Never said that. Point is that as an MP, she gets to make policy and decisions that affect many more than just a Real Estate lobby group. She’s accountable to all Kiwis. You’re betting on the wrong horse, but maybe you have an engrained bias against the Green Party or an agenda or both.
My comment was never about influence, it was about knowledge and experience.
"I suspect Ashley Church may be rather better informed about housing affordability than Chloe."
If Chloe wants to use her policy and decision making ability in a constructive way, she could a lot worse than to have a chat about housing affordability with someone with Ashley Church's experience.
So you did, which was a meaningless comment, at best, and more like an attack on a Green MP. For example, Andrew Little is not medically qualified in the slightest yet he’s the Minister of Health. The way it works is that Government MPs and Ministers get professional and expert advice from qualified people. I doubt Ashley Church is among those, for obvious reasons. National MPs OTOH might welcome it with open arms and lots of hugs & kisses; a few former MPs are now Real Estate agents I’ve heard.
" I doubt Ashley Church is among those, for obvious reasons."
The only "obvious reason" would be that Church is informed, knowledgeable and experienced. Chloe is not. Which, despite your obvious misreading of my post, is why I suggested she does some more research.
I suspect a property spruiker is the absolute last person you would seek information from regarding property affordability
In a choice between Ashley Church and Chloe Swarbrick, Chloe wouldn't even get second.
Vox populi says otherwise – the only Ash I know of, except the man with the boomstick, is a doctor.
Popularity is temporary. Wisdom and knowledge not so much.
Thanks, gypsy, for that confirmation of where you're coming from.
Sound familiar?
By all means point to the errors in her reasoning – looked pretty good to me.
Look at Chloe's claims on housing affordability, then look at Ashley's Church's evidence based article. That's just a start.
Swarbrick/Church aren't the only ones making claims on housing affordability.
Maybe Church's analysis is the odd one out, which would be odd indeed given that he's a former CEO of the Property Institute of New Zealand.
That being said, maybe the recent tax changes for residential investment properties will begin to have an effect at the lower end of the property market.
I have the answer for you. It is in the words "final three months of 2020". Church's analysis covers a considerably longer time frame.
“That being said, maybe the recent tax changes for residential investment properties will begin to have an effect at the lower end of the property market.”
My personal view is they won’t, because there is still a huge issue with supply. Ashley Church, in his letter to the PM, points out that the biggest impediment to first home buyers is the deposit, and there are ways to fix that that the government could be considering.
Maybe Church is an apolitical and expert observer of NZ housing policies.
His comments haven't always been 'on the money', but then he is a business leader, and Chairman of the Taxpayers' 'Union' board.
Oh Church is certainly not apolitical. But I note you haven't found anything to undermine his credentials on housing. Which is, after all, what we're talking about.
No, before you bring in your dodgy propagandist, you must answer Chloe's case.
Church seems to be disqualified by avarice (he's a rentier) and inclination (he is involved with the untruthful and frankly toxic taxevader's "union") from meaningful commentary – if we wanted even more failed Chicago school bullshit, we need only consult the ape-descended primates on Kiwibog.
So being a rentier disqualifies a person from having an informed opinion on the property market? That's like saying anyone who benefits financially from climate change policy is disqualified from having a qualified on opinion on climate change. It's silly.
As for Chloe's case, I have answered it. She speaks about it taking decades for housing to return to affordability, but as Ashley Church points out, housing is more affordable now than it was 33 years ago.
Chloe also argues for rent controls, and in support links to the UK Labour Party's proposals, which are untried, while ignoring the evidence that rent controls have perverse outcomes.
I have nothing against Chloe personally, but she is seriously out of her depth.
How lovely to know that your attacks on Chlöe are not personal, nor on James Shaw or the Green Party at large, I take it. And you would know this because your hero/guru Ashley Church told you?
The Green Party has opened this for public discussion and feedback and put up eight options to start the debate.
https://www.greens.org.nz/reasonable_rents
Clearly, housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland. As the Greens point out, there are international examples of various ways of control and regulation that work. Unsurprisingly, you had to cherry-pick the untested proposals by Labour UK. However, I do assume that those proposals are founded on research too, as is the case with the Green Party’s initiative.
The Taxpayers’ Onion has no credibility whatsoever until they put up a discussion document that National or ACT can take to Parliament. Instead, they fear-monger in the hope of stymying the debate and killing off any firm policy proposals by this Government. It goes without saying that they don’t ACT in good faith. Never have. Never will. Do you donate to them?
Pointless exercise ….gypsy has misinterpreted the claim in his linked 2019 article (median house price has increased by over 30% since) where Ashley Church does what he accuses others of doing and cherry picks 'serviceability' criteria to compare two points in time to create a false narrative and conveniently ignores deposit criteria, mortgage terms and income ratios.
Corelogics most recent report notes these factors in its analysis and is a much better source of analysis than an industry spruiker.
Thanks. Indeed, it is obvious what gypsy is doing here. Have seen it before and it always ends the same way, which they should know by now 🙁
The Core Logic data is looking at a much narrower window. I havn't misinterpreted any claim. And the deposit criteria is something Ashley Church specifically mentions in his letter to the PM.
What I do find strange is the seeming willingness to accept untried political opinions over the word of someone who understands the housing market. I doubt that principle would be applied in other areas?
Lol…what I find strange is the supporting links in his letter to the PM are his own articles….he provides ZERO evidence for his talking points…all of which are regularly trotted out by the industry.
The fact is housing affordability is completely controllable by the government should they so choose….the real question is whether the consequences are politically saleable.
As the Gov and RBNZ are well aware its a question of when not if the housing ponzi crashes….and every action to date has been to defer that day.
" the supporting links in his letter to the PM are his own articles….he provides ZERO evidence for his talking points…"
Yes he does…they are in the articles he links to.
"The fact is housing affordability is completely controllable by the government should they so choose…"
Over the long run, I agree. But as you point out, there would be political costs that would likely be unpalatable.
If (contrary to what Ashley Church espouses) the Gov can control housing affordability as you agree AND that is a political decision then why would you listen to his advice ( a failed politician) over that of a successful politician (Chloe Swarbrick)?
He's a lobbyist using an industry provided outlet and his opinion deserves to be viewed as such.
" If (contrary to what Ashley Church espouses) the Gov can control housing affordability as you agree AND that is a political decision then why would you listen to his advice ( a failed politician) over that of a successful politician (Chloe Swarbrick)? "
1. That isn't what Ashley Church espouses. In fact his letter makes suggestions about how the government could fix the housing market.
2. Why would I listen to the advice of a proven expert over someone with zero experience?
3. Ashley Church was the youngest ever person elected to the Napier Council. He served 3 terms. Like Stuart, you don't seem to know much about Ashley.
1.
2. You can’t control house prices.
The housing policies of successive governments, both here and around the world, have been grounded on the rocks of their attempts to bring house prices under control. It can’t be done. That’s not my opinion – it’s the evidence of over 40 years of history of the New Zealand housing market. If your goal is to reduce or reverse house price inflation, the market will beat you and you’ll have needlessly expended political energy and capital on a battle that you can’t possibly win.
https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/ashley-church-an-open-letter-on-housing-to-the-prime-minister-39589
2. Evidence please, not opinion
3.Napier Braybrooke (L)10,784 Church (N)5,835 Shakes (D)53
https://www3.stats.govt.nz/New_Zealand_Official_Yearbooks/1987-88/NZOYB_1987-88.html#idsect1_1_10211
2. Ashley Church's credentials have no basis in housing affordability, the area you attribute his 'expertise'….indeed his experience is more accurately in property investment and sales and marketing, the almost antithesis of affordability.
3.Yes Chloe Swarbrick lost her first foray into local body politics and went on to succeed within national level politics whereas Mr Church never managed to progress beyond local Councillor….and we know the quality of local body politics.
4. You are welcome to hang on Mr Church 's property proclamations regarding property investment but if he wishes to make policy then he can re-offer his services to the electorate and see if he fares any better this time round, meanwhile C Swarbrick can continue to perform the role she was elected to do.
"You do understand the meaning of 'affordability' and its relationship to price?"
Yes. It is one component of many. But you really did confuse the two didn't you.
"Ashley Church's credentials have no basis in housing affordability"
Of course they do. He is a well regarded expert on property matter generally, and has written on the topic for a living.
"Yes Chloe Swarbrick lost her first foray into local body politics and went on to succeed within national level politics whereas Mr Church never managed to progress beyond local Councillor….and we know the quality of local body politics."
So by your own standard, Chloe has failed at politics. Unless you have a different standard for people you disagree with?
"You are welcome to hang on Mr Church 's property proclamations regarding property investment but if he wishes to make policy then he can re-offer his services to the electorate and see if he fares any better this time round, meanwhile C Swarbrick can continue to perform the role she was elected to do."
I don't hang my hat on anything. It is important to consider a range of viewpoints. If and when Chloe establishes her bona fides in property, I will even listen to her.
" Clearly, housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland. "
Ashley Church has presented an argument that housing affordability is better than it was 30 years ago. You have an opportunity to refute that.
" The Green Party has opened this for public discussion and feedback and put up eight options to start the debate. "
I never critiqued Green party policy. I was commenting on an article written by Chloe Swarbrick that contained her ideas about housing affordability and rent controls. I consider her opinion ill-informed, and have provided references to support that view.
“How lovely to know that your attacks on Chlöe are not personal, nor on James Shaw or the Green Party at large”
In this entire discussion I have not made any comment about James Shaw (who I admire) or the Green party generally. I have also made no mention of the Tax Payers Union, National or Act.
[Time to start moderating you because it seems that you’re pushing a nefarious agenda on this site and your comments don’t appear to be in good faith, as others have come to realise and have noted too.
Housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland.
This is a fact that does not get nullified by some historical comparison, which is a disingenuous debating trick. In addition, the comparison is arguably flawed anyway, as others have already pointed out.
Actually, Chlöe Swarbrick didn’t give or discuss any specific ideas about rent controls in her article in the Guardian. She mentioned that her party had started talking about rent controls (see the link in my comment listing 8 options to kick-off debate and consultation). And you went apeshit. When you try to refute her “ideas about housing affordability and rent controls”, by using Ashley Church as your prop – do you have any expertise of your own at all in this area? – you are, in fact, trying to critique “Green party policy”. Don’t you even realise what you’re doing here or is this part of your gaslighting MO? So far, you have not critiqued anything, but just went out on a full-scale blanket attack against the broad concept of rent control in Aotearoa-New Zealand. Quite possibly, because you’re ideologically opposed or have vested interests or both.
Strictly speaking, this is correct, but I (and others here) read all your comments and I put this in context of what you’re doing here specifically in this thread. For example, starting here with your obscure Listener article that nobody else here could access: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-06-2021/#comment-1797969. Short memory? Comes with the job, I guess.
So, others and I see a pattern emerging and when challenged, you deny and obfuscate.
Not verbatim, correct again, but you mentioned/introduced Ashley Church and keep propping him up. Are you playing cute when insulting our intelligence?
The way I see it is that you are a slippery commenter who does not comment in good faith, particularly on housing affordability, rent controls, and Chlöe Swarbrick. You don’t engage in constructive debate, which is why others are wasting their time on your comments (26 so far here and going on for 3 full days now). Here is your warning: stop with this disingenuous way of commenting or take it somewhere else. Please acknowledge that you have read and understood this warning, thanks – Incognito]
It seems gypsy that you are a candidate for thought along the lines of Bertrand Russell:
There is a problem with housing affordability for the younger working age group, and it has been shown that the number of years income required to buy a house has shot up skyhigh, compared to earlier times when there was more gradual rise in line with young adults' earnings.
I think this is generally recognised and you criticising people for thinking differently makes you seem a hostile provocateur in the column. Are you a rentier yourself only concerned with your own interests or those of family or friends or clients? We are thinking about the interests of general society, it is a different perspective; it seems there is a chasm between the two sides.
"I think this is generally recognised…"
What is generally recognised is that getting together a deposit is the problem, which is precisely the point Ashley Church makes.
" We are thinking about the interests of general society, "
…which cannot be served by poor analysis of the problem. Being nice is not a solution. On this issue, Chloe is neither experienced or wise.
gypsy You are cherry picking things to go on about, and repeat, and go on about, and… Why don't you take up building mountains out of molehills elsewhere? We want to see real housing being carried out, and not leaky stuff either, and haven't got time to indulge in acrimonious arguments with people 'vaccinated with a gramophone needle' as my Gran used to say. Please go and find yourself a good hobby where you can show off your aggression and erudition to an appreciative well-heeled audience. Body building or ultimate fighting might be to your taste.
" We want to see real housing being carried out, "
I have only been commenting on Chloe's opinion piece, and only about housing affordability and rent controls.
seaman's language?
Seamen have been known to enhance their expressive range with deck spanners – nor is their tolerance for fools infinite. But it is better not to lay one's vices off on one's profession. A certain terseness and directness of expression sometimes, perhaps.
" There is so much to read and follow and these people are a distraction "
No-one is forcing you to engage. Given your responses, I would suggest your issue is sensitivity to criticism of Chloe rather than truly believing she is more qualified to speak authoritatively on this than Ashley Church.
You have thoroughly established yourself as a bad faith commenter.
I consider her opinion ill-informed
I consider your opinion fatuous.
I would suggest you get help,
I'm sure we are all amused by
But it is entirely consistent with the quality of your opinions on real estate, and on Chloe Swarbrick; that is to say, not worth a moment of anybody's time.
You continue to believe the word of a 26 year old who has no experience, and I'll continue to listen to expert opinion. I hope you feel better soon.
See my Moderation note @ 1:13 pm.
When you try to refute her “ideas about housing affordability and rent controls”, by using Ashley Church as your prop – do you have any expertise of your own at all in this area? \
Providing expert opinion is not a 'prop'. I can just imagine your response if I had given my own opinion without support! And yes I have expertise. Considerable. But that doesn't actually matter, so I quoted from an industry professional whose analysis people actually pay for.
[So much to unpack in this short comment; a most revealing litigious comment, which should have been a short and simple acknowledgement of a Moderation note, no more, no less.
If all you do is refer to one single so-called expert without providing your own arguments and facts, yes, then it is a prop. You’re hiding behind your prop and this is the well-known authority fallacy.
My imagined response is mostly irrelevant; more importantly, imagine the response of other commenters if you had given your opinion supported with well laid out arguments and information and you had engaged in good faith; we wouldn’t be having this convo right now. But no, Ashley Church is the best thing since sliced bread, apparently, and Chlöe Swarbrick is ignorant, inexperienced, and young – “a 26 year old who has no experience”, FFS!!
So, it does actually matter that you argue from your own position of knowledge and expertise instead of hiding behind a prop. It also adds authenticity to your comments, which builds trust and respect, even when others don’t necessarily agree with you. This is the kaupapa of this site and your comments run counter to this.
So, you chose a prop that people pay for? What kind of argument is that? Should we be impressed, in awe, and stunned? Does it make his opinion any better than Chlöe Swarbrick’s who’s also paid by the people to do her job dutifully as MP? Does it make him more trustworthy and accountable?
It is a pathetic argument and we know it – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 7:09 pm.
Housing affordability is low, especially in Auckland.
Now this is a really good example of how you operate – you either don't understand the content or you deliberately misrepresent it. I have never argued affordability is or is not 'low'. What i did was introduce Ashley Church's evidence that housing is more affordable than it was 30 years ago. Chloe's article was headed " Under the government’s current plans it will be half a century before house prices return to affordability ". The point I made from the outset was that this is misleading, because housing is more affordable now than it was 30 years ago. That's why I referred to the work by Ashley Church.
[Chlöe Swarbrick correctly stated in her article that housing affordability is low. I stated the same thing (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-06-2021/#comment-1798194). Your response was to mention some silly historical comparison by Ashely Church with which you agreed, obviously. Now you’re saying “I have never argued affordability is or is not ‘low’.” You’re lying through your teeth; you attacked that statement of fact more than once!
Chlöe’s statement was about how long it might take to correct this unaffordability, a projection into the future, which you ‘countered’ with a backward statement. If that isn’t the comment of a disingenuous troll, I don’t know what is.
QFT
The only one who has been misleading is you – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 7:21 pm.
This is a fact that does not get nullified by some historical comparison, which is a disingenuous debating trick.
Chloe's article was headed " Under the government’s current plans it will be half a century before house prices return to affordability ". Presenting historical evidence that housing is more affordable now than 30 years ago in response to that claim is a "disingenuous debating trick"?
Seriously, I've enjoyed this little exchange. And yes, I understand the warning. It is a petulant rant from a moderator who clearly doesn't like their pets being criticized.
[Nope, you pulled the debating trick arguing against my comment that housing affordability is low, particularly in Auckland. This is undeniable and yet you deny it!? And it could indeed take decades to get down to levels that are more acceptable.
Yes, I’m sure you’ve enjoyed your little exchange with me and all those other ones with other commenters here. So far, 31 comments here. Unfortunately, you don’t want to understand the warning and rather attack the Moderator, which is a silly thing to do. Your attack is misplaced and misguided, anyway, because they are not my “pets” nor did you criticise anything. All you did was sniping and yapping.
I see that you ran some other counter-attacks on my Moderation note, which is just wasting more Moderator time. I will deal with those later, but first I will put a stop to this charade. Banned for 31 days, one day for each comment – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 7:25 pm.
You need to get over yourself. This isn’t North Korea FFS.
But you mentioned/introduced Ashley Church and keep propping him up. "
No, I responded to ad-hominem attacks on an expert commentator that were irrelevant to the post. Have you moderated those who carried on those attacks? I’ll bet you haven’t.
but I (and others here) read all your comments and I put this in context of what you’re doing here specifically in this thread.
This seems to go to the heart of your moderating. You don’t like criticism of something you agree with. But whatever you may assert, an article in the listener is not 'obscure'. I do note that criticism of any Green Party policy is now unacceptable to you. Particularly one that is supported by a reference.
Actually, Chlöe Swarbrick didn’t give or discuss any specific ideas about rent controls in her article in the Guardian.
This is arguably one of your sillier comments.
Her piece in the guardian is headed "Everyone deserves a decent, secure life. It’s time New Zealand talked about rent controls." Her article links to Green Party policy on housing, which includes control of rents!
I could go on, but you have form that I was warned about by other commenters here when i was new. In the case of this convo, I understand it goes back to your silly comment here.
[This is a note for future reference.
Indeed, this is not North Korea, because here you can freely comment and argue your opinion without fear of repercussions. FFS.
Moderators here are more concerned about ad homs at other commenters and, above all, Authors. If somebody doubts your ‘expert’ this is hardly the stuff that would trigger moderation unless it kills debate and/or creates a bad vibe. Moderation usually starts with a warning, anyway.
Moderation is all about commenting behaviour, not about disagreeing at all. You’ve got it all wrong. I really don’t care if you want to criticize any Green Party policy but that’s not what you did here; you attacked a Green MP in a dishonest way without proper arguments other than your prop Ashley Church.
It is rather puzzling that you think so highly of Ashley Church and think his opinion on the matter is definitive and some kind of ‘industry standard’ since you wrote about a week ago:
The Listener article that you quoted was “obscure” because it was inaccessible to others here, me included, i.e. it was hidden. This is an accepted meaning of “obscure”.
Indeed, Chlöe Swarbrick and the Green Party want (us) to talk about rent controls. The Green Party website lists 8 options to kick-start the discussion. You did not counter any of those options. You want to kill off any debate about rent controls full stop. No discussion needed around any of the options. No need to evaluate the supporting material provided. Just abort it ASAP. All rent control is bad, according to you, without actually arguing any specifics in the GP discussion document. We should simply take Ashley Church’s word for it. Yeah, right!
If you don’t want to debate rent controls here on this site, then you can leave it or go somewhere else. Others may want to discuss it and don’t need you riding roughshod all over the thread and diverting it away to Ashley Church of all people, i.e. without you diversion trolling here.
No, you cannot go on, because you have now been banned and when you come back you can pull your head in.
Yes, I saw your comment at the time (https://thestandard.org.nz/about-trevor-mallard/#comment-1791405) and thought it was silly and I took it a face value. So, you were new here, were you? Not only do you treat other commenters here with contempt, you also treat a Moderator as a fool. Let’s stop playing your silly little game, because we both know how this will end, don’t we? – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 6:55 pm.
No, you have not even begun to answer Chloe's point, the crisis of unaffordability, nor are the opinions of a dishonest extreme right provocateur of interest.
housing is more affordable now than it was 33 years ago
Liar.
"Only one country in a worldwide survey saw house prices rise faster than New Zealand in 2015. And no country could top New Zealand for house price jumps relative to income." New Zealand house price rises outpace all but one country | Stuff.co.nz
You and Ashleigh Church can ‘make love elsewhere’.
House price increases and income levels do not determine affordability. You have ignored interest rates for one. And providing a single comment from a moment in time 6 years ago is not a credible argument.
Your comment is precisely the reason you need to be listening to more informed voices.
Edit – if you enjoy snap shot comments, here’s one for you:
“We’ve always been expensive. When I bought my first house 46 years ago, I struggled to get it. I sold all the nice things and put in flat mates. It was never easy.” https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/kiwi-house-prices-how-do-they-compare-to-the-rest-of-the-world-38726
You trying to peddle the views of a dishonest redneck on a left-leaning site really takes the cake.
you need to be listening to
No, no I don't. You and the revolting Mr Church can find somewhere else to peddle your facile lies.
Here, we are concerned with making progress on the clusterfuck people like you and the revolting Mr Church have made of what was once a functional and well-ordered society.
If you're not with that program, maybe you don't belong here. People on the BFD are apparently stupid enough to pay attention to you – you'll be right at home.
I rate Chloe infinitely more trustworthy and better informed than either of you – you constitute a mighty low bar.
Ashley Church is a commentator on property with considerable knowledge and experience. I can only suggest you have lost all sense of proportion.
Ashley Church is a commentator on property with considerable knowledge and experience. I can only suggest you have lost all sense of proportion.
Ashleigh Church is a liar and a provocateur. These things are bad manners in civilized societies.
Sod off and take your scoundrel with you.
Brief and salty Stuart – seaman's language?
First it's Ashley, not Ashleigh.
Secondly – he knows his stuff when it comes to property. In the context of this discussion, that's all that matters, notwithstanding your irrational dislike for the man.
First it's Ashley, not Ashleigh.
His mother might care, but we do not.
Secondly – he knows his stuff when it comes to property.
You have produced no evidence whatsoever to support this dubious assertion – on the contrary, you have pointed out his conflicts with the well respected Chloe Swarbrick, and it has surfaced in the course of discussion that he is a member of that rat pack, the so-called taxpayer's union. With the possible exception of the Nazi party or Nambla you would look long and hard to find an organization less deserving of public confidence.
Now, have you anything rational to offer beyond beyond your tawdry and utterly discredited appeal to authority?
" You have produced no evidence whatsoever to support this dubious assertion "
As you seem to possess a pathological dislike for the guy, I would have thought you would have known more about him. Including:
And Chloe's credentials on property are?
Look – I posted a good sensible column from Ms Swarbrick, on housing policy.
You rubbished her, without addressing anything she said, and wheeled out the despicable person of Ash Church.
As you seem to possess a pathological dislike for the guy, I would have thought you would have known more about him. Including:
All of which make him competent to advise on property investment – and make his advice self-interested and unworthy of consideration in relation to public policy.
The wankers and property speculators who have created the present housing crisis are not competent in regard to housing policy, which thanks to their antisocial input now stands in need of frankly heroic intervention, as Chloe points out, and which you would know if you had read and understood her column instead of trying to crawl up Asley Church's spotty bottom.
Is the penny finally starting to drop yet?
The function of government is not to enrich sociopathic assholes like Mr Church – nor yet their lamentable lickspittle lackeys neither.
We've had this type of commenter before haven't we. Can't be convinced of anything because it doesn't suit them to think or change. Could be someone working for the right, working for NZ Initiative, or even the Treasury. You can't convince them of anything that doesn't enhance their position. And the other thing they like to do is adopt the superior position! They have all the facts and understand them thoroughly, and you are either ignorant, or missing the point, or putting the wrong construction on the wording.
It's your time if you want to keep replying, but remember we already have Alwyn. Do we want another wilfully ignorant person here with commenters wasting their time on them? There is so much to read and follow and these people are a distraction; I believe they set out to be and possibly have a modus operandi that they follow that presses our buttons, but fail to ring a warning bell in our heads.
greywarsharp!
" I posted a good sensible column from Ms Swarbrick, on housing policy. "
And I refuted two key elements of her 'policy' using the writings of someone far more eminently qualified. Chloe is 26 years old. I'm not aware she has ever owned a house, let alone had any experience of managing housing as a market.
You refuted nothing, instead resting your flimsy smear on the reputation of a liar and a profiteer.
We can forgive fools who make errors through ignorance, but not those whose motive for wrongdoing is profit.
Church's knowledge of property is like the wolf's knowledge of sheepfarming – exhaustive, but motivated by self interest, not general prosperity.
Address Chloe's argument without reference to that charlatan – if your object is to actually discuss housing policy and not exhibit your unseemly enthusiasm for that despicable grifter.
Yes your hatred is truly psychopathic. That doesn't affect in any way the expertise of the source.
Yes your hatred is truly psychopathic. That doesn't affect in any way the expertise of the source.
Your failure to engage in actual argument is typical of trolls – without your false prophet you are incapable of grappling with the issues the surround housing, and fall back on ad homs, first of Ms Swarbrick, and now of me.
Housing is, frankly, a mess. As Swarbrick notes, and your idol is unable to refute, it is going to take fifty years on current trends, for housing to return to reasonable affordability – which given the way variability affects economic predictions over time, is tantamount to never.
Property investors and real estate companies are largely to blame for this. They are also to blame for many of our homeless, and those the government is presently lodging in dodgy motels as a stopgap. They are freeloaders, whose business model was built on tax free capital gain, but neither the homelessness nor the tax evasion is the greatest damage they have done to New Zealand. That would be the massive inflation they have caused, and continue to cause – some 30% this year. Anything over 20% or so is usually referred to as hyperinflation.
This imposes massive deadweight costs right across the economy, money that should be circulating productively is sucked into the black hole of property. There will be no rising tide, even with the current dairy receipt boom, while property is sucking all the liquidity out of the economy.
It needs to be addressed – but we fully understand why the guilty parties, Church and his fellow travelers, are desperate that it not be.
Your disparagement of Swarbrick is part of an extended campaign on behalf of the self-styled Taxpayers Union that goes back to its ill-natured and ineffectual attacks on Mojo Mathers. How proud you must be to be part of that group of momentarily unincarcerated villains.
" Your failure to engage in actual argument… "
I was commenting on an article written by Chloe Swarbrick that contained her ideas about housing affordability and rent controls.
I consider her opinion ill-informed, and have provided references to support that view.
You, on the other hand, have engaged in an ad-hominem diatribe that reveals an irrational hatred of real estate agents, property investors, the Taxpayers Union, none of whom I have even commented on.
I would suggest you get help, but no doubt you've got some deep set hatred of anyone who could help you.
Is that you on meth, alwyn?
@Il Vino.
I would suggest that it is yourself who is on some illicit drug.
I haven't made a single comment on this subject, except for this one.
Fair enough, old boy. I have come to like your wry humour, even if your attitude often shows a right-wing bias.
But it seems to me that this gypsy fellow is a bigger nit-picker than either of us ever was.