Open mike 10/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 10th, 2023 - 50 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

50 comments on “Open mike 10/09/2023 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    10 September 2023 at 7:58 am

    The true coalition..of chaos.

    ACT has floated the possibility of a new kind of governing arrangement if National refuses to cooperate during post-election negotiations.

    Party leader David Seymour has threatened to resort to a confidence-only deal, which would require the larger party to seek ACT's backing for all government spending – or "supply" – decisions on a case-by-case basis.

    Recent polls suggest National and ACT could form a government together, but National having to also rely on NZ First – who ACT has ruled out – is also a real possibility.

    As,,,

    National has also begun ruling out – or in some cases merely rejecting – ACT policies.

    And

    Such an arrangement would likely be a much less stable form of government than deals of the past, and potentially unpopular with voters.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/497636/act-s-david-seymour-floats-confidence-only-partnership-no-supply

    And the real chaos clash looming…"if" they get there..

    Politician Watch: Seymour Tries To Take Out Winston Peters

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2308/S00006/politician-watch-seymour-tries-to-take-out-winston-peters.htm

    NActfrst….taking NZ to a bad place.

  2. bwaghorn 2
    10 September 2023 at 8:38 am

    Gonna be interesting to see what the lefties that think woman are always kinda than men think van valdin and willis are finished with us, with a side dish of collins

    • Barfly 2.1
      10 September 2023 at 8:47 am

      and with the after taste of Shipley and Richardson – a thoroughly bitter and nauseating meal. As to women always being kinder …yeah not so much

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2
      10 September 2023 at 9:00 am

      Well, I raised a family and worked a (very) hard physical job during the "reign" of dame Jenny Shipley PM…and Ol' Ruthless Richardson.

      IMO..their eyes…. like industrial diamonds : (

      And IMO…i see some of Nic Willis there. And this notwithstanding her : let them eat icecream !…. re the Nat "taxbreaks" . (does she believe her own shit? Maybe..)

      Throw in an Act or 10…and look out you poor NZ battlers. Me included.

      • Patricia Bremner 2.2.1
        10 September 2023 at 9:57 am

        As the Aussies used to say, "Battlers deserve a fair shake of the sauce for their sav" (savaloy)

        We don't seem to have a similar saying about "battlers."

        I remember those difficult times. 1986 interest rates climbed to 18.6% on loans.

        It appears NZ has weathered the Pandemic better than most. We need skilled empathetic people to mitigate the hurdles of coming problems.

        Grant Robertson has worked at supporting and cushioning us. We will need that, The country is more than a business.

    • weka 2.3
      10 September 2023 at 10:53 am

      Gonna be interesting to see what the lefties that think woman are always kinda than men think van valdin and willis are finished with us, with a side dish of collins

      Don't know who thinks that, but let's tease this out a bit.

      Women would run things differently if they were in charge en masse. Not because all women are progressive (or kind), but because as a class we take a different approach to relationships. Women have in-built care function due to our role in reproduction: pregnancy, birth, lactation are all hardwired with deep care function. Again, this doesn't mean that all women are good mothers, I'm talking about as a class here.

      That in-built care function is distorted in our current society. We (society) both treat mothers badly, and need them. We expect them to do life changing work of keeping the human race going, and providing workers for the capitalism machine, and to do this for free.

      Women like Thatcher, Shipley, Collins, Willis, are allowed into the boys club because they play the game the boys want. They're not representative of how women would do things, they're representative of how the right uses women. Shipley in particular was a massive coup for the right because it convinced people that women can be just as bad as men.

      I will say here that I don't think men as a class are bad. I think they do badly under this system too. It's the system innit.

      • Kay 2.3.1
        10 September 2023 at 11:20 am

        You left out Paula Bennett…

      • Blazer 2.3.2
        10 September 2023 at 8:19 pm

        'Women like Thatcher, Shipley, Collins, Willis, are allowed into the boys club because they play the game the boys want'

        Can you enlighten me as to the female politicians that don't play the game that the…boys ..want?

  3. Blazer 3
    10 September 2023 at 9:04 am

    Nicola Willis has no credibility as a Minister of Finance after her 4 tax plan was revealed to be b/s.

    As for Seymour….no credentials at all.

    Robertson is needed for what NZ is facing….in coming years.You ain't seen nothing…yet.

  4. Blazer 4
    10 September 2023 at 9:21 am

    'There are 388​ more mega landlords in the country than there were in September 2021, and this group now owns more than 26,000 properties – about the equivalent of Rotorua.'We have 388 more mega landlords but first-home buyers the big winners | The Post

    The only game in town…set to get another…boost.

  5. Barfly 5
    10 September 2023 at 9:27 am

    The last 6 years of government have been kind to me

    Winter warmth payment

    Benefit increases of such a number that I have lost count

    Had two molars out earlier this year $800 I didn't have to pay thanks to the new MSD Dental policy

    I have more jeans, socks, underwear and jackets than I have ever had before.

    2 pairs of Timberlands, 1 Doc Martens, 1 pair Steelcap Workboots and 3 other pairs of boots all near new/great condition.

    My Doctors visits cost $30 less than what it used to.

    Prescriptions are generally free now and my bus travel is discounted.

    All of this 'minor wealth' is thanks to to the last 6 years of Labour led government – had National been in power I would have only recieved threats, hoops to jump through and vilification.

    I have voted left for nearly the last 40 years and I encourage others to do so. I am concerned for the future of people and the nation under a NACT government. The right wing parties believe that punching down on those who need state assistance is politically advantageous – Can we please have NACT's desire to punish the weakest and least able to defend themselves highlighted made widely known to the electorate. Will someone please ask New Zealanders in a very loud and clear manner

    "Do YOU support cruelty? Do YOU support the the harming of the weakest in our society? NACT do! Their policies will take money from the pockets of superannuatants, veterans, the disabled and job seekers

    Reject cruelty vote Labour

    • Tony Veitch 5.1
      10 September 2023 at 9:32 am

      Punching down is what the NAct do best!

      Expect more of the same if, God forbid, they win in '23.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.2
      10 September 2023 at 9:40 am

      I am concerned for the future of people and the nation under a NACT government. The right wing parties believe that punching down on those who need state assistance is politically advantageous – Can we please have NACT's desire to punish the weakest and least able to defend themselves highlighted made widely known to the electorate. Will someone please ask New Zealanders in a very loud and clear manner

      "Do YOU support cruelty? Do YOU support the the harming of the weakest in our society? NACT do! Their policies will take money from the pockets of superannuatants, veterans, the disabled and job seekers

      Solid ! And Solidarity from the Left. We can beat them. .

      Esp for those who dont know/cant fight back.

      • mary_a 5.2.1
        10 September 2023 at 11:14 am

        Barfly, I fully concur with your sentiments in both your posts. Very well said comrade.

        In the unfortunate event should NACTNZF become government, it will be a very dark time in NZ's history for those at the lower end of the social/economic scale. At the same time, the one percenters will do extremely well, as more public services are sold off and privatised (health, education etc), making access to these services virtually impossible for lower waged and vulnerable Kiwis.

        Support Labouryes

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.2.1.1
          12 September 2023 at 8:33 am

          Good on you mary-a. Barfly speaks true. Their "punch down" a palpable worry. There will be some awful carnage on low waged and vulnerable and all on the lower end.

          Also…I like the comrade. Not seen that..for a long time.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.3
      10 September 2023 at 10:24 am

      Barfly, thank you for your honest heartfelt testimony.

      Wellbeing. The most important thing is caring. For the ill disabled young old and the environment, the strong should offer support nurture and a share of confidence in the future. Labour Greens and Te Maori Parti look to wellbeing National Act to wealth.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.3.1
        10 September 2023 at 10:42 am

        And as you've also said….Empathy. For the Greater Good.The Left have it.

        IMO…NAct …have very little. Well…apart from for their type…and thats def not for any Greater Good.

    • Anne 5.4
      10 September 2023 at 10:35 am

      Luxon said this morning on Q&A :

      "National will build state houses for those that deserve them"

      Don't know the follow up conversation because I switched off in disgust.

      So, who decides who is 'deserving' and who is not? Granted there are some tenants who are socially repulsive but the vast majority are law abiding citizens. They just also happen to be poor – and many are brown?

    • Ad 5.5
      10 September 2023 at 10:39 am

      +100 great stuff Barfly

    • Blazer 5.6
      10 September 2023 at 11:35 am

      7 pairs of boots!You're as bad as…Luxon.laugh

    • Bearded Git 5.7
      10 September 2023 at 3:28 pm

      Nicely explained Barfly.

      This shows some of the important basic differences to be taken into account when making a choice as to who to vote for at the upcoming election-perish the people who keep saying on the TS that there is no difference between Left and Right.

    • Lebleaux 5.8
      10 September 2023 at 5:41 pm

      Do you ever consider who pays for these things you are given because someone does – it surely is not the government.

  6. Mac1 6
    10 September 2023 at 10:13 am

    Sunday roast suggestions!

    Nactwurst is a form of bloated political sausage proposed in a recent cook book "More Recipes for National Disaster". It combines a potpourri of wishbones, leftovers, coarsely-chopped tripe, stale breadcrumbs, and broken promises.

    Sour cabbage salad, dressed with trickle-down sauce, known for its piquant asparagus overtones, is a preferred accompaniment.

    Nactwurst is known in some culinary circles as 'turd down a rabbit hole', served on a mishmash of southern swedes and sprinkled with King Country hayseeds or with raisin d'etre-free, climate-denied wild turkey. It is often grilled on a fire fuelled by banned books and forest trash.

    However, it is never ever accompanied with a side-dish such as boiled greens, grated red beetroot salad, or indeed vegetables of any colour.

    This meal can be finished with just desserts, such as bitter batter pudding, stirred with a bed leg, or that other nationally-promoted but nutritionally bereft burnt offering, squeezed middle lemon mousse.

    Nactwurst has a shelf life of less than three years. Should Nactwurst still be on offer post election, GST will apply,

    • Patricia Bremner 6.2
      10 September 2023 at 10:46 am

      Brilliant Mac1

        if I may…

      • The Head chef is known for his Mercede arrival, his austerity approach to ingredients, but also for his flamboyant gestures when producing the provided meal.

      His grace is so long any sustenance has long gone from the proffered cold offering, and the kitchen helper willis rushes to explain what the chef really meant was on your self provided plate.

      Thanks Mac1 you made me see him as a chef of shortcomings propped up by gestures and slogans and caricatures of caring. sad

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.3
      10 September 2023 at 10:49 am

      Very descriptive : ) If "ever" dining on that dish (I'd sooner eat stinging nettle) …The culinary requirement : a very long spoon.

  7. AB 7
    10 September 2023 at 11:28 am

    Watched Luxon on Q&A this morning with Jack Tame – delayed by one hour so someone else could watch it live and see if it posed a health risk to me. Tame did a good job of not letting Luxon run free and babble his way through his bullshit scripted lines. Something that other people in the same negligent profession should have been doing for the last 18 months.

    Overall impression was of Luxon asserting that he was going to deliver desirable things by sheer willpower and mojo – even though the actual content of National's policies seems to run in a direction counter to the declared intention. Such as: being supposedly deeply committed to carbon net zero but looting the Climate Emergency Fund, scrapping the clean car discount, delaying agriculture’s entry to the ETS, removing half-price public transport and building roads; or wanting to solve the housing crisis by doing things that would reinflate the housing bubble and make houses even more unaffordable (reduced bright-line, mortgage interest deductibility); or just making the tax on foreign buyers work even though it appears dubious that it is legal or would produce enough revenue; or make New Zealanders feel safer by evicting problem tenants from Kainga Ora housing but having no plan on where they would go.

    Most likely the approach would be simply to command someone else (Councils, Kainga Ora, etc.) to fix the problem and thereby square the circle – then castigate them later for the inevitable delivery failure, i.e. the classic behaviour of 3rd-rate CEOs in relatively simple business environments that do not have a sliver of the complexity of an actual society where the imperial power conferred on CEOs doesn’t exist.

    • Blazer 7.1
      10 September 2023 at 12:29 pm

      Tame did a great job ,but Luxon,just ducked and dived and regurgitated his implausible arguments.

      Credibility of the Natz financial acumen =zero.

      Tame should be the obvious choice to run the debates.

      He serves it up to all politicians ,no matter their affiliations.

      Rawiti danced a similar step to Luxon when cornered.

      • Anne 7.1.1
        10 September 2023 at 1:13 pm

        Rawiti at least said it according to a certain Maori perspective. He didn't obfuscate on their fundamental principles.

  8. AB 8
    10 September 2023 at 2:02 pm

    National announces reintroduction of health targets.

    This is how the Tory playbook goes:

    • introduce health targets
    • make it difficult to achieve those targets in three different ways: insufficient funding; rapid population growth through permanently high immigration; increasing social pathologies through poverty and insecure housing so that poor and working people suffer a greater burden of illness than they should when they hit the health system
    • castigate the public service for not meeting targets and darkly imply that publicly-owned services are inherently inefficient
    • initiate privatisation of potentially profitable parts of the public health system
    • declare mission accomplished, because even though health care is now worse for most people and unaffordable for many, National has enriched their own social class who now own profitable parts of the formerly public health system, which was always the real intention.
    • Barfly 8.1
      10 September 2023 at 2:56 pm

      That link is for the John Pilger documentary on how the ringtwing in the UK is destroying their NHS

  9. Patricia Bremner 9
    10 September 2023 at 2:26 pm

    Tame Luxon interview.

    Wow, what a lot of ducking and diving.
    Him indoors "Snake oil salesman".

    Personally, I think Jack showed he has, like Baldrick "A cunning plan"….. full of holes?

    Let us see that plan, plus costings and modelling.

  10. georgecom 10
    10 September 2023 at 2:39 pm

    late last week saw some blokes waving nat party signs on a street corner. being a fair minded chap I wandered over and offered them $20, out of my own pocket mind, toward closing the $1 billion hole in their tax cut policy. Nicola Willis would only then need to find $999,999,980. They refused to take it. I then congratulated them for closing the gap from the last election of $4 billion down to $1 billion, they had clearly tightened their belts. One of them accused me of causing mischief which I found highly insulting so I carefully explained to him that I wasn't causing mischief, I was taking the piss.

    Last election I met Paul Goldsmith and only offered him $5 toward his $4 billion fiscal hole, so I thought I was being generous this time round. Though, I did offer Goldsmith every luck becoming the next party leader after collins lost the election

  11. joe90 11
    10 September 2023 at 3:32 pm

    Because waterborne disease and blue baby syndrome will only affect bottom feeders.

    /

    Water: What are National and Act doing in the shadows?

    National and Act’s policies on drinking water would reduce protections and ignore the recommendations of the inquiry into the Havelock North campylobacter outbreak

    Opinion: During the heady weeks of election campaigning, fundamental public health needs can be overshadowed by more scandalous or dramatic political stories.

    But, overlooked, public health concerns such as drinking water can become dramatic in the worst of ways, as the campylobacter outbreak in Havelock North in 2016 demonstrated. And for this reason, public health policies must be brought into the light for debate.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/what-are-national-and-act-doing-in-the-shadows

  12. dv 12
    10 September 2023 at 4:35 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300967812/act-proposes-to-allow-builders-to-opt-out-of-council-building-consents

    Party leader David Seymour announced the housing policy on Sunday, which would also include scrapping the reformed Resource Management Act and using building insurance as an alternative to building consent authorities.

    GEEZ

    • Shanreagh 12.1
      10 September 2023 at 4:59 pm

      Self policing is always a good thing and worth its weight in gold to the wide boys who are able to scarper to the hills with their ill-gotten gains, never to be found 'legally' again. Sarc:/

      Meanwhile when the poor home owners find yet again they have the equivalent of a leaky home updated to this century by having actually no-one to hold accountable. We know who insurance companies work for, if they work for anyone but themselves and it ain't the home owner.

      This kind of stuff was around when the neo-lib madness was in full flight 1980/90s. Those PS working in policy areas in the Health sector found ourselves earnestly giving views on whether registration and professional bodies such as for the Engineers, Doctors and Dentists were needed or were they an impediment to market forces that would weed out the wrong 'uns. Looking back it is surreal and lacking in commonsense just as the notion that all we need is insurance to make sure our homes are built in safe areas to strong safety standards.

      If you don’t belive that ACT is the Neo-lib bad fairy come to life then look at this extract:

      “Housing is still in crisis and Labour and National are equally responsible, it’s time to stop demand-side policies that aren’t working and set a target for supply,” he said.
      Reads like a neo lib play book with refs to ‘supply-side’ & ‘demand-side’. Perhaps a dog whistle to those ‘dry’ economists of the Chicago school that ‘we’re here and we’re going to do it again and play like it is the late 1980s and 1990s all over again’.

  13. Anne 13
    10 September 2023 at 7:02 pm

    Some background on ACT.

    In the early days of ACT (1996) a Maori section was set up in their spacious and luxurious head office in Auckland. Maori people, mostly from the East Coast of the North Island, were hired to map out policy for the purpose of attracting Maori voters. I met some of them. A certain Alan Gibbs, who was largely responsible for financing ACT into existence, discovered their presence and he demanded that the staff be immediately sacked and the section disbanded. Within 24 hours they were gone. I felt sorry for them. They had agreed to work for the new party in good faith and then made to feel like they were scum.

    Nothing has changed. Seymour and company are dancing to the tune of their major financiers – those Kiwi tycoons whose only motivation is to make money off the rest of us and retain power over the political landscape.

    Having turned ACT into their submissive little lamb, they have turned their attention to Christopher Luxon and National. Hence the 8 million dollar treasure chest to fight the election and the rest of us are ultimately destined to be the sacrificial lambs.

    • Anne 13.1
      10 September 2023 at 7:15 pm

      Supposed to be a reply to Shanreagh.@12.1. Sorry. 🙁

      • Shanreagh 13.1.1
        10 September 2023 at 11:57 pm

        Yes Anne, I remember hearing about something happening like that. I remember meeting Gibb, as part of my work, and was amazed at the wee squeaky voice he had.

  14. observer 14
    10 September 2023 at 7:05 pm

    Luxon's interview was so bad he even lost Claire Trevett at the Herald:

    Election 2023: Claire Trevett – National leader Christopher Luxon’s dire interview of no answers – NZ Herald

    (Link is paywalled, but provided for authentication)

    National's strategy was always obvious, and so far it's working. Rely on voter dissatisfaction with the government so people decide before the campaign that they will vote against, not for. Rely on Luxon saying nothing meaningful at all. Vote "other", but don't ask about the "other".

    Short-term (one month to election day) it may well succeed. Medium-term (everything after the election) it will be a disaster. Luxon will be a terrible PM, a daily embarrassment, but National can dump him after the election. Too late for the rest of us.

    2024: "We didn't vote for this", say the people who – sadly – just did.

    • Anne 14.1
      10 September 2023 at 7:23 pm

      "2024: "We didn't vote for this", say the people who – sadly – just did."

      I despair at the persistent political stupidity of so many voters. Mark my words, when the disaster sets in… you won't find anyone who voted for them. Its happened before.

  15. joe90 15
    10 September 2023 at 7:27 pm

    Craig Renny/CTU put the needle in. Luxo flounces.

    Craig Renney

    @CLRenney

    National has identified nearly $2.5bn in cuts to public spending. It calls this "Savings from Back Office Bureaucracy". However an analysis from the CTU has identified many areas that Kiwis would consider front-line and essential. A thread…

    […]

    Nationals numbers come from Budget 23 data https://budget.govt.nz/budget/2023/estimates/data.htm This breaks the departmental spending down so we can see the areas in which government spending is taking place. This also allows us to see what National has in its scope for the cuts programme.

    […]

    Details of just some of the areas that are in scope of cut are included here:

    https://union.org.nz/national-party-cuts-front-line-services-in-the-firing-line/

    https://twitter.com/CLRenney/status/1700755158047862787

    Election 2023: National leader Christopher Luxon walks off amid questions about National's tax plan

    National is still refusing to say which parts of what it calls the back office bureaucracy of government it would cut to fund its tax cuts.

    But the Council of Trade Unions has done an analysis and found the pool of money they are proposing to cut from includes the courts system, passport processing, national emergency management and search and rescue funding.

    National leader Christopher Luxon refused to answer our questions on what was off the table.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/09/election-2023-national-leader-christopher-luxon-walks-off-amid-questions-about-national-s-tax-plan.html

    • observer 15.1
      10 September 2023 at 7:58 pm

      He flounces because he can. He's done it before, it's the freedom of being in opposition. He doesn't even have to face OIA requests (hence the fake numbers on tax).

      If he's PM he has to face far more scrutiny, such as the weekly post-Cabinet press conference, which lasts at least half an hour. Unlike Key, whose jokey uncle act worked well as an avoidance tactic, Luxon is not able to pull that off. He can't walk out after 5 minutes of non-answers every time.

      Of course I don't want him to get the job, but if he does, at least the sh*tshow will provide some gallows humour.

  16. SPC 16
    10 September 2023 at 8:44 pm

    Launching his house Maori/a Maori in the house campaign, Winston Peters said Maori were not indigenous because they came from another place – Cooks and before that from (a part of – Taiwan) China.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-winston-peters-claims-maori-are-not-indigenous-during-nelson-meeting-with-nz-first-supporters/ZCEBFEUDZJGHXA2SY4KGOFETIQ/

    Could someone please tell Mr Peters that there was a migration out of Africa 50,000 years ago. And that those who settled an area first and maintained a cultural presence there, are the ones seen as indigenous. This applied in Polynesia/South Pacific at a later stage than other areas, for some reason.

    Because if he tries this argument on the UN, to withdraw us from UNDRIP, our education system is going to be called into question internationally.

    • Incognito 16.1
      10 September 2023 at 9:00 pm

      That’s classical Peters: Orwellian populist demagogue practicing semantic sophistry. It could be sufficient to get him (not NZF) over the 5%.

  17. newsense 17
    11 September 2023 at 1:38 am

    Remember this is now, under Labour with all the market correction and the impact of policy measures:

    if you are a middle class family you can have grandparents or a pet, but not both.

    The family in this example were lucky in that they scrambled and got into a house before the election.

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/business/350069109/mega-landlord-numbers-swell-third-first-home-buyers-real-winners

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