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Open mike 10/08/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 10th, 2011 - 61 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

61 comments on “Open mike 10/08/2011 ”

  1. Bored 1

    Great commentary from a lady stuck in a house in the middle of the London riots.

    http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2011-08-09/panic-streets-london

    She makes the telling point “Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea what it is like to grow up in a community where there are no jobs, no space to live or move, and the police are on the streets stopping-and-searching you as you come home from school. The people who do will be waking up this week in the sure and certain knowledge that after decades of being ignored and marginalised and harassed by the police, after months of seeing any conceivable hope of a better future confiscated, they are finally on the news.”

    • Morrissey 1.1

      “Most of the people who will be writing, speaking and pontificating about the disorder this weekend have absolutely no idea…”

      Did you hear Deborah Hill Cone blithering about this yesterday on Jim Mora’s “The Panel”? She was full of scorn for the idea that there were any problems in London or in Great Britain: “What social issues are they protesting about? I didn’t know there WERE any social issues. ARE there social issues?”

      The other people in the studio—Jim Mora, Sharon Brett-Kelly and Bernard Hickey—all decided to stay silent and let her rave.

      But a little later, Hill Cone was at it again. “It’s all RELATIVE, isn’t it! These people in London are all so much better off than their parents were. They are all living comfortably.”

      Sharon Brett-Kelly couldn’t let that go on unanswered. “Oh, the conditions in many parts of London are bleak and many people feel hopeless and abandoned. I have lived there, and I know how desperate the people there are.” Bernard Hickey agreed with Sharon Brett-Kelly.

      Deborah Hill Cone could say nothing. She had no answer.

      It’s a pity these vacuous voices of the smug right and the far right are not challenged more often in this forthright manner.

      • Bored 1.1.1

        I resent those fekkers using up my tax dollars up on their fat salaries at Radio NZ, Hill Cone can take a fly jump.

      • Vicky32 1.1.2

        “What social issues are they protesting about? I didn’t know there WERE any social issues. ARE there social issues?”

        The woman is a fracking idiot!

        • Ianupnorth 1.1.2.1

          +1 – especially when she wore those dumb specs. She was ranting about being stuck in Queenstown and having to drive to ChCh to get back to Auckland the other week – bless her cotton socks, at least she can afford a holiday in the snow!

    • uke 1.2

      Read an interesting book a while back: “Hooligan – A history of respectable fears” (by Geoffrey Pearson). He identifies a recurring history of disorder and riots in working class English areas, nearly always accompanied by middle-class panic, outrage, and hand-wringing in the newspapers, often waxing nostalgic about how people were so much better behaved twenty years earlier. The irony is that things were pretty much the same twenty years earlier, just the folk devils had a different name (skinheads, football hooligans, mods, teds, larrikans, cads and roughs, garroters etc.).
       
      Pearson’s point is that there has for centuries been a strong anti-police tradition in poor, working class English neighborhoods. It’s a class thing. But the media have nearly always defined it in terms of rampant criminality and moral decline. At this point in the London riots, the pattern seems to holding true.

      • Morrissey 1.2.1

        … the media have nearly always defined it in terms of rampant criminality and moral decline. At this point in the London riots, the pattern seems to holding true.

        The more bewildered commentators in the New Zealand media are repeating the same reactionary line. Here’s a selection of comments from yesterday…

        NewstalkZB: The Mike Hosking Breakfast—Hosking talks to TVNZ’s London correspondent Paul Hobbs, who is presumably paid to live in London so he can interpret the situation there with increased insight. If so, TVNZ should demand its money back…

        HOBBS: There’s nothing political about this at all! It’s just a sport for these young men!
        HOSKING: What are the reasons they’re giving for the rioting?
        HOBBS: There’s no rhyme or reason for any this. It’s just a SPORT!
        HOSKING: Have the police locked it down yet?

        NewstalkZB Eight to Midnight with Kerre Woodham

        WOODHAM: Those little toe-rags. This is when I wish I was in the police! I’d love to turn a fire-hose on them! Those little TOE-RAGS!
        CALLER: I was talking to a friend of mine who knows what’s going on over there, and he says all this is because of the GIRL GANGS over there!
        WOODHAM: thoughtfully Hmmmmmm. That’s interesting. I had a caller earlier on who said it was the EASTERN EUROPEAN GANGS who are organizing it all.
        CALLER: There’s nothing spontaneous at all about these riots. It’s all highly structured.
        WOODHAM: Those little TOE-RAGS…

        • Carol 1.2.1.1

          Lisa Owen on TVNZ7 news last night was going on about how people couldn’t be rioting because of austerity as they were taking all kinds of non-essential consumer items (especially the latest and most pricey electronic goods eg plasma TVs and laptops). She seemed to miss the significance of any class war angle, or of the significance of the focus of much looting – ie on the artefacts of a rampant consumer society.

          • Morrissey 1.2.1.1.1

            She seemed to miss the significance of any class war angle, or of the significance of the focus of much looting – ie on the artefacts of a rampant consumer society.

            I don’t think she misses the significance of it. I think—in fact I know—that she routinely self-censors. She knows it’s unacceptable to give any sort of political analysis. Everything is devoid of context, devoid of history. Riots just happen, and all the people in them are “toe-rags”.

            Lisa Owen, Kerre Woodham, Mike Hosking and Paul Hobbs do not lack brains or understanding. What they lack is the courage to state what they and everybody else knows to be the truth.

        • uke 1.2.1.2

          Yeah, that’s classic. Same dynamics playing out. “Girl Gangs”, ha.
           
          The Independent seems to partly get it: “There is a context of mistrust of the police here. After the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes in 2005, the police allowed false reports that the Brazilian had been wearing a bulky coat and had run from officers to circulate without contradiction. And after the 2009 death of Ian Tomlinson, the police denied that the newspaper vendor had been pushed by an officer. It was only when a video emerged showing that this was the case that the police admitted the truth.”

    • William Joyce 1.3

      People shouldn’t assign a single motive to these rioters.
      Undoubtedly there are people who want to breakout against their circumstances by opposing police and destroying property.
      Equally, there are people who want to similarly breakout but they have respect for people and the effort they are making to put food on their own tables, and so do not destroy business and homes.
      There are those who feel the pressure of a consumer society to gain status through possessions but who for too long have not been able to afford them and so they loot the shops to get them.
      There are others who feel the same status pressure but choose not to loot from other worker and their by create more victims.
      There are those who loot because they are organised by under world characters.
      There are people who burn a building for no other reason than they want to break a taboo, get a buzz from it, and film it on their cell phone to up load to youtube, and in the mean time some poor person has lost their home, or their job, their income, their possessions, their means to get to work.
      There are those who want to be part of a celebrity event and don’t care who gets hurt.
       
      Traditionally events like this are cannibalistic. They eat their own community.
      If they were really serious about “protesting” in equality and class oppression then they should target the rich, their institutions, their wealth.
       

      • Adele 1.3.1

        His-story tells us that eventually the disaffected will attack the source of their great frustrations, whatever they may be, and the privileged, in whatever capacity, will become the stretched neck of inequity.

    • aerobubble 2.1

      I’ve lived in London during bombings, riots, and never did they spread from city to city, suburb to surburb. Now sure there are always going to be a group of youngster hanging around waiting for trouble, especially with the contempt the boomers level at them, and add to the contempt of politicians who hate the poor and unemployed (who are also citizens), but when the economics of theft and fraud, stealing billions of unaccountantable bonuses while laying down decades of social, fiscal, and ecological debts, then it would surprised me if the riots had not have happened, but hey heinsight is easy. The media is doing a good job of trying to make this into a youth problem, avoiding talking about why everyone should be on the streets, and misdirecting the debate because the Police are obviously stretched and always on the back foot as technology keeps the rioters one step ahead.

      But hey we have been here before, before radio riots and social uprisings would march through london to parliament and they were really angry. So we might be seeing a power change back to mobs and citizens brought on technology. so beware the future, not so may apathetic citizens.
      Politicians had to do much better to keep the London mobs at bay, will have to.

  2. jackal 4

    The Stream

    I make no bones about this post being a plug for a TV program. In fact I give it the Jackal’s tick of approval and full endorsement. Covering current affairs with a focus on human rights, The Stream digs out priceless bits of info from the WWW. If you’re a blogger or political commentator, The Stream is a must watch program…

    • Carol 4.1

      Actually, I tend to switch off when it comes on in the morning, and switch to RNZ. I’m developing a resistance to people enthusing over the latest e-/Internet development – been seeing it since the mid 90s. But in fact, AJ covers enough of the important news in the NewsHour and other morning shows.

    • Chris 5.2

      Her best policy is too build a bridge from Australia to NZ.

      Or she has one to relocate Christchurch to Albany…

      Edit: I notice those particular policies didn’t make her list. Must have been talked out of them

    • joe90 5.3

      A strange person indeed but hardly a RWNJ and more a very sad person who’s best ignored.

    • millsy 5.4

      She’s been around since about 2004-05.

      I think she hit the headlines for appearing in a porn magazine while saying she wanted to be PM one day.

      I recall crossing swords with her on studentz.co.nz before it merged into varsity.co.nz

      Her policies are all over the place.

    • Vicky32 5.5

      Does anyone know who this RWNJ is?

      No, but she has the same name as a Doctor Who character! 😀

    • felix 5.6

      My friend flatted with her when she was doing Steve Crow’s “Porn Idol” or whatever it was called, she’s a very sad individual indeed.

      It’s all about being famous, and what she’s famous for isn’t even a consideration. Politics is just the latest attempt in a long line of attempts at being recognised.

      Just as she wasn’t singing before she decided to “be a singer”, she probably didn’t have any political ideas before she decided to “be a politician”.

      She should be running for National really.

      • grumpy 5.6.1

        Jesus F Christ – have you seen those pictures?????

        I thought she would still be in hiding.

      • Bored 5.6.2

        Pray Felix if she was to run for National how would we tell her apart from Maggie in the next Auckland power outage? Two faintly female forms in the gloaming and some mindless high pitched meandering right wing diatribe…..

  3. john 6

    i was reading her facebook post she says she is far right wing

  4. when i was a kid i bred mice to sell to pet shops – until the fashion changed from coloured mice to white mice

    left with tea chests full of mice i could not kill (being a budding Buddhist) i just kept feeding them and supplying them with the strips of torn up newspaper they used for nesting – and of course the daily task of cleaning their converted tea-chests

    one day things changed – mice started eating their babies, buggering their peers, and generally going mad

    ’til i had to let them go (in the local bush) or watch them all die

    population density – not measured in humans per square mile but in fear and despair per square politician – is what causes all societal breakdown

    http://thepeakoilpoet.blogspot.com/2011/08/london-bridge-is-falling-down-tpop.html

    http://thepeakoilpoet.blogspot.com/2011/08/peak-people.html

    and for fun

    http://thepeakoilpoet.blogspot.com/2011/08/great-australian-poem.html

    tPoP

  5. freedom 9

    meanwhile your right to a fair and honest trial slips further out of reach as we are left to trust the Maori Party and Act to save what is left of our Justice System
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5421373/Govt-works-to-shore-up-support-for-justice-bill

    • Bored 9.1

      The main parts of the article are summed up in these paragraphs…

      The Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill aims to save about $25 million over five years by freeing up 450 court days each year.

      It introduces measures such as allowing courts to proceed in the absence of a defendant who does not have a reasonable excuse and reserving jury trials for the most serious and complex cases

      In other words your right to be tried by your peers, and in person go west (Power seems intent on chucking away centuries of legal practiice and precedent such as habeus corpus). This is all in the name of efficiency and cost savings….justice denied in the face of the dollar.

      Now where are all those good libertarians? This should be something they are up in arms about.

      • Bored 9.1.1

        Jeez, 8 hours later and not one RWNJ appears to care about their personal liberties……Simon Power, you are free to lock the buggers up. Seeya Gos and TS…..

  6. Carol 10

    Opportunist crimes should be punished:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/5421331/Britains-most-wanted-Looters-tried-on-shoes-in-rampage

    Police in London have released images of the “most wanted” suspects behind the ransacking of the English capital as stories emerge of the incredible behaviour of emboldened looters.

    But I also think an equivalent approach would be to release images of the Most Wanted for pillaging the potential & necessary income for the least well-off in diverse countries.

    • uke 10.1

      Yeah, how about some of those hedge fund managers.
       
      Apparently there has not been a single charge laid yet over the post-2008 financial collapse in the US. Compare with the 1980s Savings and Loan scandals in which hundreds of bankers were convicted and that was only around a paltry US$140 billion total fraud.

      • KJT 10.1.1

        When are people like Roger Douglas, Prebble, Ruth Richardson, Faye Richer rail and Don Brash going to be charged for the money they have cost us over the last few decades.

        “Steal a million you get a knighthood, Steal $100 you are put in jail”.

  7. Ianupnorth 11

    Is there any other band wagon this prat would like to jump on?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10744212

    Prime Minister John Key has called on adidas to admit it had overpriced All Blacks jerseys in New Zealand and “fix” its mistake.

    Can I ask said Prime Minister to admit he has under taxed the rich and ‘fix’ his governments mistakes?

  8. logie97 13

    Nice to see the Mum’s and Dad’s investors have been playing the stock market again over the last couple of days. Surprise, surprise, all the losses have been recovered.
    Same goes for the foreign currency traders. Who do these money-men think they are kidding. Let’s talk up a storm because we know we are going to be able to cash in on it any day soon…

    Meanwhile life for the masses goes on as usual – shafted again.

  9. Vicky32 14

    Nice to hear 3 News bashing Sue Bradford and letting Petulant Bean have her say about the ‘massive fraud committed by beneficiaries” in the form of ‘over-payments’ although (was it Gower, I believe so?) did mutter quickly that most of the breath-taking amount was caused by WINZ staff messing up – as I can attest! I declare income, they forget to charge it, then when they ‘discover’ it, it’s added to my breath-taking debt. (There wouldn’t be a debt, if they did what they were supposed to do when I declare income… 🙁 )

    • Lanthanide 14.1

      Since WINZ are obviously so incompetent at paying you the correct amount of money, why don’t you work out what they should be paying you yourself? If they pay extra, put it in a bank account and don’t touch it (unless you need it for an emergency or something).

      Then when they want it paid back, it’s all sitting there, and may have got you a few extra dollars in interest, too.

      My sister and her boyfriend, while studying for Phds and doing clinical psychology, ended up knowing the student loan/student allowance rules better than the people in the office on campus did, just based on the numbers of times they got it wrong or told them something that was wrong. In the end they stopped going.

      • felix 14.1.1

        Easy to say, Lanth, harder to do when you’re broke with bills to pay.

        Besides, why should she have to?

        • Jum 14.1.1.1

          Yes Felix,

          WINZ get paid to get it right, but considering their numbers are being reduced as we speak what can we expect from a stressed out organisation.

          My question is: I wonder which party the WINZ social workers will vote for?

          Are they keen to bash the beneficiary along with Paula Bennett just because they see a few people doing the fraud bit or are they going to get rid of Bennett by considering the other beneficiaries that are actually real human beings enduring a financially hard time – a hard time, I might add, that anyone might experience.

          • logie97 14.1.1.1.1

            Anyone know what the Petulant Bean’s work history is. How much of her adult life has she drawn her money from the public purse in one way or another – of course, a princely chunk now that she is a Minister of the Crown. Has she no conscience?

      • Vicky32 14.1.2

        Yes, I did manage after a lot of trying, to apply, but you’ve missed my point, which is that your technology fails more often than not!
        I will continue to try to contact your ‘clients’ to point this out. They should not be paying you when your service is so poor!

        You’ve missed the point, Lanth.. They didn’t pay me ‘extra’! I rang up as I am supposed to do, to ‘declare earnings’. They’re supposed to reduce or cancel the following week’s payment depending on how much I earned. 
        At least one woman didn’t know how to do that, or so I was told when I rang days later to ask why it hadn’t been done. Instead, she’d added the payment she should have reduced, to my debt. Another woman said “Oh, I’ll just add it to your debt then”, and I protested, saying “No, you have plenty of time to adjust my next payment” and she said something like “Meh, no, adding it to your debt is easier”.
        This angers me so greatly, because many of us were told at a job seminar, that having a debt (or even having had one!) disqualifies us from applying for any government job. I think that’s a new thing, only since PB has been Minister, as under Labour they had no policy against hiring “bennies”. (It reminds me of what I learned during my brief sojourn on ATS : in the USA, almost all employers advertising vacancies state that they will not accept applications from anyone who is not currently employed! If that comes oin here, and it’s starting to, it may be necessary to stretch the truth – as I have in fact done, pretending casual work is permanent…)

    • Campbell Larsen 14.2

      Totally agree – the rules and WINZ admin re part time work and income need to be improved. Days worked and day paid can differ and support differs depending on which is taken as the basis for an income evaluation. Both methods create inequities and the whole thing is as clear as mud. IMO it should be administered in conjunction with IRD on a no fault basis. Any debts on part time work should be interest free and calculated quarterly using the kindest measure (one which creates the least debt) and then repaid gradually out of benefit or income or both.
      WINZ has shown itself to be incapable of operating the system it designed and yet wants to prosecute individuals. There is a better way.

      • freedom 14.2.1

        the removal of secondary income tax would be a start. That is a dinosaur from a different era and only hurts current employment options. It not only restricts the options for those under WINZ but everyday working people are also harmed by it. Many many people need two or three jobs to get by these days and secondary tax is a vehicle that needs a new WOF. We have a fully adequate range of tax rates to fairly accommodate the income tax generated. Secondary Income Tax is a pecuniary punishment.

  10. millsy 15

    Well folks, just heard on TV3 today that John Key is going to announce welfare reforms at the National conference this weekend.

    Hang onto your hats folks, its going to be one hell of a ride….

  11. Jum 16

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1108/S00272/police-and-air-force-training-exercise-in-auckland.htm

    wow – it could also be training to rescue John Key when people try to tell him what they think of him selling off our assets.

  12. Oscar 17

    Disgusting that we may have to pay to visit our third biggest island. What’s the actual purpose of this bill? It’s not like Rakiura is 100% Conservation land. If it was, I could understand.

  13. jackal 18

    National Challenges NZ to Riot

    During a Parliamentary debate today, National MP Chris Tremain made a number of inaccurate statements that were clearly designed to limit National’s responsibility for any negative consequences due to budget cuts. What made me cringe was this statement…

    • felix 18.1

      Unsurprising. Chris “Dennis Plant” Tremain’s primary qualification is his Dad’s rugby playing.

      • Morrissey 18.1.1

        Chris “Dennis Plant” Tremain’s primary qualification is his Dad’s rugby playing.

        Don’t forget his ability to put on a serious face as he poses as a backdrop to John Key in parliament. He’s learned how to nod assent every now and again, just to show that he’s listening…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvNK7kHuM7c

        • felix 18.1.1.1

          Ha! Yeah the pair of them are like a couple of nodding dogs on the back shelf of Key’s limo.

          • jackal 18.1.1.1.1

            It’s no wonder NZ is on the slide then with that level of “intelligence” in power. My favorite from his speech today was:

            “There were a number of economists, actually more than a number…”

            This is who you voted into power New Zealand. Wake the fuck up!

    • Jum 18.2

      Jackal,

      Paul Hutchison said that about Franklin – no marching in the streets meant no one cared about having their local government assets stolen by Rodney Hide and their democracy removed by this government. There was a protest when Key went to a posh luncheon there with business interests that would have included the promise of even cheaper labour to decrease their expenses and maximise their profits. But it wasn’t a march down the street. This is NActMU’s Plan – enforce a police state because nobody protests. Their plan is progressing well.

      Nobody is marching in the streets. New Zealanders are too busy trying to survive in 2 or 3 jobs to waste their energy on protesting; NActMU knows this. That is why they’re trying it on in Parliament. By the time New Zealanders do realise that marching in the street is all that’s left to them, it will be too late. It has always been too late, every time National have ruined the economy; everything will have been sold, and Kiwis’ sovereignty traded away.

  14. Morrissey 19

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
    Norman Finkelstein’s website is under attack by China Israel

    Norman Finkelstein, one of the leading American intellectuals and a widely admired political dissident, has been banned from Israel. Now the Israeli government is trying to sabotage his excellent and popular website.

    How much simpler if he was just another of those Palestinian untermenschen. Then they could simply kill him, or arrest him as a “terrorist”…

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

    NORMANFINKELSTEIN.COM WEB ATTACKS UPDATE.

    Recently the official website for Norman Finkelstein has come under various web attacks. We are currently trying to address the attacks. Unfortunately, while we are trying to address the issue, new posts will be delayed until a permanent solution is found.

    Thank you for your comments and concerns. Please visit back frequently or sign up to the mailing list (left side bar) in order to receive an update to the situation.

    Normanfinkelstein.com web team.

  15. just saying 20

    THE GOVERNMENT TODAY ANNOUNCED THAT IT’S CHANGING THE FLAG TO A CONDOM, BECAUSE IT MORE ACCURATELY REFLECTS THE GOVERNMENT’S POLITICAL STANCE. A CONDOM ALLOWS FOR INFLATION, HALTS PRODUCTION, DESTROYS THE NEXT GENERATION, PROTECTS A BUNCH OF DICKS, & GIVES YOU A SENSE OF SECURITY WHILE UR ACTUALLY BEING SCREWED

    A friend sent me this. Don’t know if it has been posted here before.
    We sure as fuck are being screwed.

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