Open mike 11/09/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 11th, 2011 - 103 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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103 comments on “Open mike 11/09/2011 ”

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  1. freedom 1
    11 September 2011 at 7:47 am

    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/thetorontohearings
    NZT 07:45 – 09:00 Niels Harrit: Incendiary/Explosive Residue in the WTC Dust

    LIVE RIGHT NOW WORLD EXPERT IN HIS FIELD

  2. tc 2
    11 September 2011 at 9:18 am

    Watching eng Argentina last night, can’t they make proper rugby jerseys anymore, the numbers were peeling off the backs and they looked like surf rasshie tops.
    In football you can’t stay on the field without correct numbering……any rule officianados know if that’s an issue in thugby.

    • Pete george 2.1
      11 September 2011 at 9:30 am

      The quality of the numbers was about as good as the quality of the rugby, but the crowd rocked!

      It was an alien experience in my home town.

      • Carol 2.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 9:47 am

        I enjoyed watching the Argentina – England match on TV. Maybe it wasn’t that spectacular, but it was a heroic Argentine effort against a mostly lackluster England performance – gripping fight to the finish. The Argentina supporters in the crowd looked like they were enjoying themselves.

        • Carol 2.1.1.1
          11 September 2011 at 10:03 am

          PS I do get fed up withe the MSM giving headline results of matches as they happen – hard to avoid – and before the matches are shown in delayed mode on FTA TV.

      • Morrissey 2.1.2
        11 September 2011 at 12:12 pm

        The quality of the numbers was about as good as the quality of the rugby, but the crowd rocked!

        Actually, it was a tremendously tense and engaging match. That’s why the crowd rocked—it was a rugby match as absorbing as anyone could hope to see.

        • millsy 2.1.2.1
          11 September 2011 at 12:38 pm

          Pity the Pumas lost. The game needs well performing and strong second tier nations to keep the top teams on their toes.

    • Morrissey 2.2
      11 September 2011 at 12:09 pm

      In football you can’t stay on the field without correct numbering…

      Yes, you can stay on the football field without correct numbering—as you have just pointed out, they did exactly that last night.

      I share your concern about the poorly made jerseys and poorly attached numbers.

      • tc 2.2.1
        11 September 2011 at 12:18 pm

        Football as in soccer to most rugby heads, sorry I should realize that by now.
        no you have to get it attended to before you can return. Happened in a euro qualifying match a few days ago to Ireland’s Richard dune, ref couldn’t read the number so trainer had to magic marker one on.

  3. Banter 3
    11 September 2011 at 9:30 am

    Ah the latest lovefest : http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5601825/A-prime-ministers-view

    Was quite enjoying my Sunday morning too

    • Carol 3.1
      11 September 2011 at 9:38 am

      Yes, I stopped visiting Stuff this morning because of the large vacuously smiling, pseudo-presidential pic of our Prime Mincer promoting that story.

      What does he have to say after the failed transport and other issues on Auckland’s waterfront Friday night, after saying people would eat their words and it would all go smoothly?

    • Tigger 3.2
      11 September 2011 at 9:38 am

      Favourite quote: John Key on…how he and Obama differ: “I have more engagement with New Zealand than people might think. Unlike the impression I have of the American president, who sits in the Oval Office and people come to them.”

      Yes, that’s how you differ from Obama, John…

      Carol – notice the anti-Pharmac article beside that photo? Tory all the way this morning…

      • Carol 3.2.1
        11 September 2011 at 9:48 am

        Yes, I also registered the anti-Pharmac slant and wondered where that came from.

        • joe90 3.2.1.1
          11 September 2011 at 10:01 am

          No mention of the adverse effects of Warfarin, the drug Pradaxa replaces, which caused the bleeding that almost killed my old man.
          And the real problem with Pradaxa, GPs prescribing the drug to people who should never have been given it, gets one line in the article.

    • Lanthanide 3.3
      11 September 2011 at 10:23 am

      The five uses of the word “actually” are all quotes from Key.

  4. joe90 4
    11 September 2011 at 9:49 am

    16 arrested for the ‘Anonymous’ hacks. The mugshots of a surprisingly diverse group of people.

  5. Pete george 5
    11 September 2011 at 10:12 am

    Further proof of the dangers of widespread use of 1080:

    Kea deaths blamed on 1080 poison

    The kea were among a group of 38 birds fitted with radio transmitters as part of a four-year programme to assess the risk of 1080 on their population.

    The Department of Conservation says the pellets were supposed to be it will now look at a different formula as the baits were previously thought to be bird-repelling.

    But the Chairperson of the Kumara Environmental Action Group, Gerard Bullimore says the recent deaths just show that 1080 does indeed kill everything.

    “The seven keas that they found dead would be a minute percentage of native birds they have killed. Every time locals go out after a 1080 drop they’re always finding (wood) pigeons, weka, everything – flattened.”

    That’s a high proportion of “collateral damage”. Most people will agree that dropping poison over large areas is far from ideal. We should be doing far more to research and trial alternative methods of predator control so we can move towards phasing out 1080 as soon as we can.

    • KJT 5.1
      11 September 2011 at 10:36 am

      A bit subjective I know, but I used to live on a block in the countryside.

      Like many people I was rather cynical about dropping poisons.

      When we first moved there, there were very few native birds, apart from some pukeko.
      Most of the pohutukawa were near death.
      After a large 1080 drop in the area we noticed some dead birds, lots of dead rats, possums and feral cats. Also got rid of the possum infestation on our roof.

      A year later there were big numbers of native birds. Wood Pigeons, Tui, Kiwi and morepork among others. The native trees had normal foliage.

      That particular drop was obviously a resounding success.

      • Pete george 5.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 11:16 am

        There’s no doubt there can be benefits but we shouldn’t ignore the downsides – nor should we ignore looking for non-poisonous alternatives. 1080 is a real risk, and could bite us on our “clean green” and food producer bums.

        A simple choice – poison or find something better?

        • Campbell Larsen 5.1.1.1
          11 September 2011 at 1:05 pm

          Sounds like you have got something in mind Pete…
          Cue Petulant Bean announcing a new UF/ National plan for the unemployed:
          ‘benificiaries to wrestle bare handed with possums in the bush’
          Prime Mincer John Keys says he is comfortable with the plan saying ‘we have a lot of pests in this country, some of them are furry and some of them are lazy, may the best one win’

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.2
          11 September 2011 at 1:31 pm

          Yes, there’s a risk but overall 1080 drops seem to increase native flora and fauna rather than being a massive negative. And yes, we should also be looking for better methods but that doesn’t mean that we should stop using the successful methods that we are ATM.

    • grumpy 5.2
      11 September 2011 at 11:03 am

      Is this the same incident that happenned a few years ago at Franz Josef??? There (from memory) about 14 kea were fitted with transmitters and after the 1080 drop 7 were found dead – a 50% kill rate!

    • millsy 5.3
      11 September 2011 at 12:45 pm

      And what would your solution be Pete? A return to the good old days of the bushman and possum trapper like in the Barry Crump books? Any suggesting that a possum bounty will create jobs through a possum fur industry is tosh, simply because trapping possums and living in the bush is more of a lifestyle choice, rather than a way to earn money to maintain any decent standard of living.

      Agree without about the need for R and D to create alternatives though. The government even owns a company that makes pesticides so there is no reason why we cannot channel money through that, and sell the products commerically.

    • wtl 5.4
      11 September 2011 at 1:35 pm

      With all due respect, PG, please read the recent report by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment on 1080 rather than scaremongering with such reports. She has evaluated all the evidence and concluded that 1080 is the best way of dealing with threats to our native fauna. Have you done anything at all like that, or are you just basing you judgements on one report here and there and your ‘gut feeling’?

      See: http://www.pce.parliament.nz/media/media-releases/1080-must-not-be-banned-environment-commissioner

    • Morrissey 6.1
      11 September 2011 at 12:16 pm

      “Where were you when the world stopped turning?” This song is idiotic, preposterous, disgusting. This is the kind of lamebrained, sentimental, and—worst of all—dishonest rubbish that gives country music a bad name.

      Why don’t you put up something to commemorate 9/11/73?

      Or have you not heard of that?

    • felix 6.2
      11 September 2011 at 12:20 pm

      Jeez Brett that’s fricking awful.

    • travellerev 6.3
      11 September 2011 at 12:29 pm

      Might want to freshen up on reality there Brett,
      The Toronto hearings: Scientists, Engineers and Architects present the best evidence to an esteemed panel amongst whom an Italian investigative judge whose expertise is: State crimes against Democracy such as the murder of Aldo Moro, Gladio and the terror attacks in Italy in the 70s. Also a specialist in Mafia related crime and involved in all of these cases. Not someone ready to through his whole distinguished career to the dogs over tinfoiled crazy conspiracy shit.

    • higherstandard 6.4
      11 September 2011 at 1:10 pm

    • Pascal's bookie 6.5
      11 September 2011 at 3:20 pm

  7. Dave Kennedy 7
    11 September 2011 at 10:53 am

    If Tama iti is the face of Maori terrorism then we have little to worry about, the police could have saved heaps of money and angst if they had only picked up the phone!
    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/09/tama-iti-terrorist.html

  8. Bored 8
    11 September 2011 at 11:09 am

    From todays Dom more comments on Mutu and racism.

    Walker said many Maori felt the Government allowed too many immigrants to enter the country, at the expense of the indigenous population.

    “The problem of Maori under-performance in New Zealand – in terms of education and dependency on welfare – has not been resolved. If we can’t solve our own internal problems, why add to those problems by bringing more people? It just doesn’t make sense.”

    Great questions Ranginui, wise words. After all the academic bullshit we argued this week over what was and was not racism the fact remains Maori under perform (sort of a catch all phrase that could mean anything). As a small island melting pot in the South Pacific we wont ever be a cohesive community and society until we resolve the issue of race and colonialism here. I dont have any easy answers but I do know we cant force a cure, we all need to agree.

    At minimum regardless of what we think of Mutus opinions she has put the spot light well and truly back onto issues a large part of our community would ignore whilst blithely counting up the personal ebenfits of tax cuts etc.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1
      11 September 2011 at 1:38 pm

      We need to stop immigration right about now and then look at supporting the population we do have as well as looking at what we need to do due to Peak Oil. I suspect that solving the latter will also help with the former.

      • Vicky32 8.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 7:16 pm

        We need to stop immigration right about now and then look at supporting the population we do have as well as looking at what we need to do due to Peak Oil.

        Oh sorry, I could not agree less! NZ is vastly underpopulated – we could happily fit in twice as many people, or three times as many.
        Peak oil will come no matter how many people we have here, and in NZ we’re better placed to cope with it than anywhere else on earth!

        • Campbell Larsen 8.1.1.1
          11 September 2011 at 7:44 pm

          We we get our extra 4 or 8 million people in due course, no doubt, but they will most likely be environmental or economic refugees- of course if it gets really bad elsewhere the globel elite will be flocking here in droves too…
          Growth for growths sake is a doomed strategy in any situation where there are limited resources and is certainly ill advised when there is no evidence that bigger is better, and plenty to suggest that in times to come we will have to make more out of less or suffer the unpleasant consequences.

          • Bored 8.1.1.1.1
            11 September 2011 at 8:00 pm

            100% correct Campbell and Draco about Peak Oil and growth.

            Vicky, we should be very concerned, we are well placed to cope if we are prepared but unfortunately we are not: our attitude is not unlike Britain in the 30s blithely moving toward an appointment with a sure fate. Can we cope with no oil…what are you lioke at ploughing with oxen or horses? Now tell me how many we can feed.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2
          11 September 2011 at 9:16 pm

          NZ is vastly underpopulated…

          Got any proof that NZ is under populated? Considering that over most of history NZ had a population of less than 1m I’d say that the normal carrying capacity is well below what we have.

          Oh sorry, I could not agree less!

          That’s probably because you still believe in the delusional growth+ meme of the Catholic Church and the capitalists. Best thing that ever happened to man is birth control and the Catholic Church calls it against gods will.

          Peak oil will come no matter how many people we have here…

          Yes it will but the fewer people we have here the better off we’ll be as we’ll be more likely to be able to support them on the resources we have. Due to population levels the Northern Hemisphere and some places in the Southern will be hell on Earth with massive amounts of death from famine, disease, war and all the other problems faced by communities that just don’t have enough to support the population that they have.

          • Jum 8.1.1.2.1
            11 September 2011 at 9:30 pm

            Draco T Bastard,

            Beatrice Hill (Tinsley), a famous NZ cosmologist, apparently also belonged to a group who believed in population control.

            Maybe its time has come.

          • Vicky32 8.1.1.2.2
            11 September 2011 at 11:31 pm

            That’s probably because you still believe in the delusional growth+ meme of the Catholic Church and the capitalists. Best thing that ever happened to man is birth control and the Catholic Church calls it against gods will.
             

            Newsflash, DtB – most Catholics in NZ are leftists.. Plus, do me a favour, and don’t say ‘man’, say humanity, instead… People aren’t the problem, capitalism is.

            Peak oil will come no matter how many people we have here…

            … Northern Hemisphere and some places in the Southern will be hell on Earth with massive amounts of death from famine, disease, war and all the other problems faced by communities that just don’t have enough to support the population that they have.
             

            See, this is the part that really angers me. You want to say to the rest of the world “bugger you Jack, I’m all right!” and pull up the draw-bridge! Given that some of my family, and 2/3 of my friends are in the Northern Hemipshere, I can’t be that blase about the rest of the world.

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2.2.1
              12 September 2011 at 12:40 am

              Newsflash, DtB – most Catholics in NZ are leftists.

              So? The Catholic Church still holds birth control as anathema and yet it is the only thing that can allow us to live within the environments limitations. As that happens to be the case and as you happen to be a Catholic then I will hang the delusional growth meme upon you.

              Capitalism is a construct of the people and so is Catholicism and so people are the problem but mostly in the form of ignorance which is what you’re showing.

              You want to say to the rest of the world “bugger you Jack, I’m all right!” and pull up the draw-bridge!

              Don’t have any choice – it’s probable that we’re already over populated now thus we can’t fit many more here. We certainly can’t fit the tens of millions from the UK that would have to leave there to drop their population down to sustainable levels never mind the hundreds of millions from Europe and the Middle East. And the population centres that I’m most concerned with is Asia/Minor because there’s no way we can fit billions of people here.

              • Vicky32 …
                12 September 2011 at 1:18 am

                As that happens to be the case and as you happen to be a Catholic then I will hang the delusional growth meme upon you

                Now that’s the problem – I am not a Catholic! (I am Anglo-Catholic, which is a whole ‘nother matter – and we are not opposed to birth control.) However,often,  the issue is that people who hammer birth control are often at heart, racist or at least parochial in their application, or insistence on the application of it. “We must stop those Asians and those third world people from eating us out of house and home”. I am not referring to you specifically here, so don’t get angry!
                It’s a fact that world-wide, we could feed the population we’ve got. The problem is distribution, and don’t blame capitalism on Catholicism, or even Anglo-catholicism..
                 

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  12 September 2011 at 6:02 pm

                  It’s a fact that world-wide, we could feed the population we’ve got.

                  We can ATM, we won’t be able to in a few years. Actually, it may be true that we can’t feed them now.

                  don’t blame capitalism on Catholicism, or even Anglo-catholicism.

                  I didn’t although I admit to thinking that the church’s support the capitalists. They have, after all, always supported the rich and powerful against everyone else.

                  • Vicky32 …
                    12 September 2011 at 6:11 pm

                    They have, after all, always supported the rich and powerful against everyone else.

                    No that’s just not true? Haven’t you ever heard of liberation theology?

                    • McFlock …
                      12 September 2011 at 6:25 pm

                      That would be the liberation theology criticised by the  Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith?

  9. Lanthanide 9
    11 September 2011 at 11:18 am

    Just had a good 4.5-5M-ish jolt. About 2-3 seconds between the P and S waves so I’d guess out by Lyttleton or the Rolleston fault again.

  10. Campbell Larsen 10
    11 September 2011 at 12:16 pm

    @CV
    Remember when back in Feb (27th) we were debating about whether or not Shonkey was scaremongering over the quake?

    Apparently he was debating it too – according to the SST the prime mincer was ready to resign over his comments if they were found to be ‘terribly terribly wrong’ (yeah right)
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/5602498/Key-almost-quit-over-quake/

    Of course Mr Keys let himself off the hook after agonizing over ‘misleading the country’ (and is busy demolishing suburbs and the CBD so that his media mates cannot be accused of histrionics either)
    Yet somehow misleading the country over the economy, unemployment (‘it’s all relative’) asset sales etc etc and the world over the the state of NZ’s 100% pure environment is something he is comfortable with…

    Smile and wave does very little else apart from mislead the country and now is yet again shamelessly using the quake as a means to portray himself in a better light

    What happened in and to Christchurch was terrible, but the constant use of other peoples misery for self promotion whilst simultaneously doing not enough to help them is a total disgrace.

    NZ’s ‘darkest day’ was when our country elected this charlatan and his government into power

  11. big bruv 11
    11 September 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Hey guys, VSM is about to become law, I am sure you will join me in celebrating this freedom.

    • Lanthanide 11.1
      11 September 2011 at 12:58 pm

      The bill hasn’t actually been passed yet.

      If they have some more urgency, like it seems they probably will, it could easily trample over members bill day and therefore prevent it from being passed (unless the bill itself is put into urgency as well).

      This already happened once.

    • marsman 11.2
      11 September 2011 at 6:37 pm

      VSM, another neoliberal scam to privatise and destroy student services. ‘Freedom’? Like ‘level playing-field’ , leveled to advantage plunderers, and ‘no free lunch’, for you but free banquets for me? Don’t make me puke!

  12. Brett Dale 12
    11 September 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Just something to remember the victims by, no need for all the hate.

    • felix 12.1
      11 September 2011 at 12:59 pm

      Crap music is crap music, whatever your reasons. I’ll never hate you though buddy.

    • travellerev 12.2
      11 September 2011 at 1:23 pm

      No hate Brett, but righteous anger. Hate is the kind of shite which comes from people like you.

      Let’s define victims shall we?

      The people who died in the buildings?

      Their loved ones who still don’t have answers to 70 % of their questions?

      The 70.000 first responders who are ill or dying from the dust and now it turns out the Nano thermite in their lungs and who are still fighting for recognition and some form of compensation and who are treated like they are the terrorists and who have been barred from attending the tenth anniversary of the events?

      The American soldiers who died in battle the more then that amount who have killed themselves since they came home or the hundreds of thousands of soldiers who are ill and dying from the exposure to Depleted Uranium?

      The more then a million Iraqi dead or the more then 4 million displaced internal and 4 million who fled their country?

      The 90% of Afghans who never even heard about 911 and who thought that the burning buildings they saw on photo’s were in Kabul?

      Let me tell you something Brett you put a stinking big donation here and I believe you really care. How about doing that!

      Otherwise shut the fuck up about remembering these people because doing it once every ten years ain’t nowhere near enough. Take it from me because I remember and fight for these people every day since that 9/11 ten years ago and I find your sentimental drivel quit frankly an abomination in the face of all of these people I mentioned before and who suffered as a result of those atrocities.

  13. Brett Dale 13
    11 September 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Yiou know guys, my post wasnt about politics, wasnt about ideology, wasnt about what country does what to who.

    Like the song it was about the victims and their loved ones, it was about the rescue teams and what they went through.

    That was it really, Im sorry that people here dont like any tributes or sympathy to the people of the USA.

    That was all it was posted for.

    • felix 13.1
      11 September 2011 at 1:23 pm

      I just don’t like bullshit music Brett.

      • Brett Dale 13.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 3:29 pm

        Felix:

        I might think the same about yuor taste in music.
        Each to their own.

      • Morrissey 13.1.2
        11 September 2011 at 9:17 pm

        I just don’t like bullshit music Brett.

        It’s not the music, it’s the moronically sentimental and dishonest lyrics. There are lots of brilliant country songs and interesting country singers—but, sadly, Alan Jackson is out of his depth here.

    • travellerev 13.2
      11 September 2011 at 1:32 pm

      Actually, by picking only the direct victims in New York you are making a political statement.

    • Vicky32 13.3
      11 September 2011 at 7:31 pm

      Im sorry that people here dont like any tributes or sympathy to the people of the USA.

      Well, I don’t! A handful were “victims” on September 11th, and so they’ve made actual victims out of hundreds of thousands in the rest of the world for the past 10 years.

  14. Brett Dale 14
    11 September 2011 at 1:39 pm

    I dont think I was doing that, I also dont think I should have to sorry for remembering the victims of 9/11 just because they are American.

    • felix 14.1
      11 September 2011 at 2:01 pm

      “just because they are American”

      No-one’s saying that Brett. Thing is you only seem to care about the American victims.

      • Brett Dale 14.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 2:37 pm

        Felix:

        Again its the anniversary of 9/11, thats why i posted it.

        I never expected this type of reaction, sure I may of thought there woould be the odd comment on American Policies.

        Im not sure whats passive aggressive about it.

        Oh Felix go over to the DU (democratic underground) search my posts during the Bush admin, search my posts about the DSM, you will know where I stand.

    • travellerev 14.2
      11 September 2011 at 2:32 pm

      In fact Brett,

      The link you can put your stonking big donation too are family members who want a new and independent into the events of 911. Most of them are New Yorkers and therefore Americans and they all lost family members on the day itself.

      And for a guy you are really very, very passive aggressive!

  15. KJT 15
    11 September 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Was sitting in a Coffee shop in Lyttelton a short time ago, during a quake. Not very pleasant wondering whether to stay inside or run. Most of the customers did not even look up. Must be locals.

    The waitress asked if I wanted my coffee stirred, as well as shaken.

  16. randal 16
    11 September 2011 at 2:11 pm

    I pick up the SST this morning and there is another,” I am going to quit”, from John Keys. I think he has had enough already. He looks like he has aged twenty yeats in the last three. Do yourself and quit while the going is good dude. Miami, Hawaii is much better than hanging out down here with rubes. Take my word for it.

  17. Jum 17
    11 September 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Spotted on the
    interest.co.nz
    website

    by Carpetbagger | 10 Sep 11, 12:57pm
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5598136/German-investment-fun…
    So remind me again why we should be so smug about our agriculture sector when slowly but surely it’s being sold to overseas interests who then export the profits?

    by Plan B | 11 Sep 11, 5:35am
    It is all OK, the farms are being sold to German ‘Mums and Dads’, boy I was worried for a minute!

  18. pollywog 18
    11 September 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Wasn’t it choice to hear Pasifikan names pronounced properly, by a Scotsman no less, in the NZ Tonga match ?

    Mad props to Gavin Hastings !!!

    Shows what ignorant douchebags Ian Smith and Grant Nesbitt are. Even Keith Quinn was nailing the pronunciation with relative ease.

  19. MrSmith 19
    11 September 2011 at 2:50 pm

    +1 wtl

    Lets never let the truth get in the way of whipping up some hysteria for a small party in election year, Ah Pete.

  20. Afewknowthetruth 20
    11 September 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Brett.

    On 9/11 a gang of criminal elites carried out the demolition of buildings which contained large amounts of asbestos, identified as a health hazard long after it had been installed; to have removed the asbestos would have been extraordinarily costly (possibly as much as what the buildings were worth) and would have resulted in a huge loss of rent.

    That gang of criminals got together with another gang of criminals who needed a pretext to carry out the invasion of an oil-rich nation which had switched from trading in US dollars to trading in Euros, and to teach an unco-operative government a lesson for blocking the construction of an American-backed oil pipeline. (US oil extraction peaked in 1970 and the US was/is increasingly dependent on imported oil).

    There was also the matter of the big reduction in poppy growing that the Taliban had caused, which was impacting badly on the CIA-sponsored drug trade and the laundering operations that were going on via Wall Street.

    The idea of flying planes into buidlings had been discussed on many occasions and there had even been a film made about it. The problem was, the Twin Towers had been built to withstand multiple impacts by aircraft. The central colums were just too damed strong to be brought down without being cut. And Thermite (finely divided aluminium/magnesum/iron oxide mix) is about the only practical way of cutting though large steel columsn quickly. Termnite burns at around 2,500 oC, well above the 1500oC needed to melt steel.

    By the way, aviation fuel burning in air reaches only 300oC, and in the absence of sufficient air -as evidenced by the black smoke on 9/11- at a considerably lower temperature.

    The other problem was that the US Air Force had a ‘nasty’ habit of quickly intercepting planes that were off course; they did it about 67 times in the year 2000. So on 9/11, Dick Cheney sent the jet fighters that were based in the region well away from the region to carry out exercises based on the hijacking of aricraft -just to ensure there would be total confusion should any real hijackings be reported. That allowed aircraft to fly around for up to an hour-and-a-half without being intercepted.

    One of those planes supposedly crashed in a field leaving no wreckage. Another supposedly crashed into the Pentagon, resulting in a tiny hole in the building and again leaving no significant wreckage.

    There were a few ‘important people’ who had to be kept out of the carnage that was palnned for that day, so they were advised not to go to work. Needless to say, the elites were not the least concerned about deaths of ‘proles’: the elitesd have always regarded the masses as ‘cannon-fodder’ and always will (58,000 casualties in one week in the Battle of the Somme: run towards that machine gun or be shor here).

    The event on the day went well for the elites and the preplanned attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq were soon underway.

    However, after the event were many reports of serious inconsistencies in the official narrative. After stonewalling for months Bush and company decided it would be best to set up a ‘commision’ that could ignore all the evidence that blew holes in the official narrative and could churn out a whitewash report that validated the lies. That was done by several other members of the gang.

    So there you have it. In all of history only three concrete and steel buidling have ever fallen down as a result of short-lived, low temperature fires, and they all did it on the same day, one (Building Seven) not even having been hit by a plane. In all of history only two passenger airliners have crashed in such a way that the titanium alloy engines ‘evaporated’ on impact.

    Just ensure that the ‘proles’ were sufficiently brainwashed, the footage was shown again and again and again and again and again, with the words terreor, terrorist, terrorism bleated incessantly.

    The sad thing is, we live in a scientifically illiterate society in which any kind of drivel is believed by the masses.

    Interestingly, the Project New American Century website that promoted rampant militarism and listed the names of so many of the criminals involved in the 9/11 scam has been amended and it now looks quite innocuous.

    We can be quite certain that the myths promoted by the eltites are now so firmly established in the moinds of most people they are irremovable. After all ‘they saw it on TV so it must be true’.

    Presumably next year there will be yet another ‘celebration’ of one of the biggest lies in all of history. Howevre, the collapse of the economy due to global peak oil will have progressed a bit further by then and few more people might have woken from the collective trance.

    • Pete george 20.1
      11 September 2011 at 3:02 pm

      Your promotion of conspiracy fairies like this doesn’t help your credibility on your “the end of the world as we know it is imminent” warnings.

      • MrSmith 20.1.1
        11 September 2011 at 4:08 pm

        Have to agree with you pete, some people are flogging a dead here for sure.

        But don’t worry they have one of those honest Italian judges looking into it, and I have know doubt he will get to the bottom of something.

        • MrSmith 20.1.1.1
          11 September 2011 at 4:45 pm

          Typo sorry that was meant to read “flogging a dead horse”

          • freedom 20.1.1.1.1
            12 September 2011 at 1:17 am

            “they have one of those honest Italian judges” – Mr Smith

            Ferdinando Imposimato is the Honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy. As a former Senior Investigative Judge in Italy, he presided over several terrorism-related cases, including the kidnapping and ultimate assassination of President Aldo Moro, the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II, and other political assassinations and kidnapping cases and several cases against the Mafia. He is a former Senator who served on the Anti-Mafia Commission in three administrations and a former legal consultant to the United Nations regarding institution of laws to control drug trafficking.

        • prism 20.1.1.2
          11 September 2011 at 7:32 pm

          What, fairies at the bottom of the garden! I like the concept of conspiracy fairies. Let’s adopt it.

      • freedom 20.1.2
        11 September 2011 at 6:32 pm

        To Pete George and to Mr Smith and every other denier who thinks they know best

        If you thought the past ten years were annoying as Truthers bugged you with their silly stories then you had better be prepared. Soon there is going to be a unifying core of information, The Toronto Hearings Report. You and all the other hollow minded minions are going to be downright swarmed by Truth. It does not mean that every post in every blog is going to be inundated or the Newspapers are going to suddenly make reality a news story. It means that as the information being presented goes through the natural stages of conversion, i would step back a bit from the hearth. Currently it just being discussed then it gets digested and then converted into action. That is when it will get really interesting.

        The Toronto Hearings will be producing a comprehensive formal report and an appendix heavy DVD which will be unlike any before. The call of the deniers is always the same, where is the evidence, well right now it is sitting in hard drives and vaults in Toronto and in a few months the panelists will release their findings. The Report will be published and you can all see for the first time the incontravertable reality that the events of September 11 2001 did not occur as presented in the (everchanging) accounts of the Official Story . Remember Truth is not about us deciding what did and did not happen, it is about securing an honest and open investigation into the events of that day so the survivors, the families and the World, know the crime was at least investigated. The chance of pointing a finger and getting a conversion is slim to none, we all know that. This is about an Investigation. An Investigation which through the events described and the evidence being discovered would be its own trial, judgement and sentence. A lasting sentence, woven into the fabric of Society, more permanent and more damning than any court could ever provide. We often hear of the thousands killed on 9/11. Would it shock you to discover that to date there has still not been a single murder inquiry regarding any of the deaths on 9/11.

        I have ‘attended’ every minute of the past three days of the Toronto Hearings, with one more day to go. One thing is clear though, ‘Impossible’ does not begin to describe the shitstorm mission that deniers have in front of them when this evidence gets into the Public Domain, let alone when it arrives in a court of law.

        Your dreams of safety in the warm and bloodsoaked arms of the Official Lie are going to get a very rude awakening. If you do not open your eyes soon then you will only have yourself to blame when that sick feeling in your gut spreads to destroy more of your life and the lives of those you love.

        The evidence presented by and in front of experts in many fields has been disturbing in the clear, concise and damning nature of its accuracy, validity and legitimacy. No doubt the lengths some will go to ensure this evidence goes no further is what really will be the nail in the coffin of the deniers. If the Truth is so easy to refute, why are you not watching the Hearings and commenting. If your denials are so strong where are your questions that will show up the expert witnesses.

        In short if you thought the matter was over because of a few songs and some coordinated media strikes reminding you of an illusion you swallowed ten years ago, then i have a little message

        WAKE UP

        This hearing is as real as it gets! There will be a lot more to come but for now just look at your families friends and loved ones, imagine they have all been slaughtered and quietly ask yourself:
        Would the investigaton of their murder really matter?
        or would you just shrug and accept someone’s word because they said so?

        the Objectives of the Hearings, the attending panelists, moderators and guests are all here
        http://torontohearings.org/
        Videos of the past three days and tomorrow’s live stream can be found here
        http://www.ustream.tv/channel/thetorontohearings
        Day four
        NZT Monday, September 12, 2011
        01:00 – 01:15 Moderators: Opening remarks and Moment of Silence
        01:15 – 02:45 David Ray Griffin: Anomalies of Flights 77 and 93
        02:45 – 04:00 Peter Dale Scott: 9/11 and Deep State Politics
        05:00 – 06:00 Laurie Manwell: SCADs and Psychological Resistance to
        Alternative Accounts
        07:00 – 8:15 Senator Mike Gravel: State Deception in the Past and Today
        08:30 – 09:15 Audience Question and Answer

        Respect, Aroha and Peace

        • MrSmith 20.1.2.1
          11 September 2011 at 7:29 pm

          Well certainly looking forward to all those people coming forward that conspired Freedom, and the up coming trail should be great, but won’t be holding my breath. Maybe I will just wait for the movie with the hollywood ending.

          There won’t be any sinking feeling for me either Freedom and to be honest, I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the USA or their conspiracy theories, I live in New Zealand and realized a long time ago that I’m not going to change the world, especially if I can’t even change my neighbors outlook first, so I try to keep it local, but I don’t forget to have my fun and live my life.

          • freedom 20.1.2.1.1
            11 September 2011 at 7:42 pm

            Your hubris is juvenile and selfish. Again you miss the point and your movie crack only proves how vacuous are the views of those who deny what happened. That sort of ‘joke’ only emphasises the ignorance of your outlook. Do you honestly believe we exist in some magical isolation from the web of this world. The search for Truth is not about a trial.

            The chances of getting anyone prosecuted is slim to none.
            9/11 Truth is about AN OPEN AND LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATION.
            What about that can you not understand?

            • MrSmith 20.1.2.1.1.1
              12 September 2011 at 8:44 pm

              Freedom calling me Juvenile and selfish gets you no closer to your truth.

              “The chances of getting anyone prosecuted is slim to none.”

              That tends to happen when you don’t have a case Freedom, but thats right you are only after the truth.

              “What about that can you not understand?”

              What I don’t understand is why you can’t just let it go and move on, there was no conspiracy, and even if there was there is no way you will ever prove it or find the truth now, let it go.

              • rosy …
                12 September 2011 at 8:50 pm

                “What I don’t understand is why you can’t just let it go and move on”
                True, It takes the focus of investigating possible war crimes that have occurred since 9/11. I hear Tony Blair is calling for regime change in Syria and Iran now. Middle East peace envoy …. pfft.

  21. Brett Dale 21
    11 September 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Afewknowthetruth:

    Again, my post was for the victims of 9/11.

    Secondly I dont believe it was a control demolition, but thats another post.

    I posted what i did, because its the tenth anniversary, and it was posted to remember the victims and the victims famalies and what americans went through.

    • Afewknowthetruth 21.1
      11 September 2011 at 3:59 pm

      The best way to honour the victims of 9/11 and the multitude of people who have died in wars following on from 9/11 is to establish the truth and have the criminals who orchestrated 9/11 brought to justice.

      The chance of that is close zero of course, since the elites who were responsible for 9/11 -Bush, Cheney, Rice etc, pehaps even Tony B Liar- are all above the law and are closely connected to the present gang of elites -Obama, Clinton, Cameron, Harper, Key etc. who are destroying the economies of the western world and are destroying the global environment in the name of oil company profits.

    • freedom 21.2
      11 September 2011 at 7:25 pm

      ok Brett, if you do not think it was controlled demo, how did WTC 1, WTC 2 & WTC 7 fail?

      • freedom 21.2.1
        11 September 2011 at 7:47 pm

        BTW Brett an explanation regarding events at the Pentagon would be really useful also, especially after the official Story got annihilated top to bottom at Toronto over the weekend

  22. prism 22
    11 September 2011 at 7:14 pm

    More good interviews on Chris Laidlaw Radionz this morning. One on Chile. Comment that the present, or recent leader of that country is right wing, but an affable chap, wealthy – sound like the stereotype of Joky Hen? Also the Chilean one went to Harvard the nest of neo liberals or am I wrong.

    Most of their young economists trained at Uni of Chicago under Milton Friedman who was developing his theory on the free market and neo liberalism. It is said that Chile was his first proving ground for his ideas. I wish I could get the ear of NZ govt for some of the good social theories that aren’t new, they have been around for long time. (But like what they say of Christianity – sounds like a good idea pity no-one has ever tried it yet.) But no the education here is directed along lines that run through the dollar – strictly uncatholic (with a small ‘c’ note).

    • Puddleglum 22.1
      11 September 2011 at 11:12 pm

      That ‘Ideas’ slot this morning was excellent. That Chilean you mention was very articulate and moving. Then there was the VUW academic who provided an excellent analysis of the major protests and political (neo-liberal entrapped) environment.

      Here’s the audio here 

    • Puddleglum 22.2
      11 September 2011 at 11:16 pm

      Oh, yes, and I noticed the remarkable similarity between the Chilean Prime Minister and ours. Affable, smiley, made his millions before becoming PM, has unified the right and centre …

      The only difference is that their PM (and government) is facing protests by hundreds of thousands – ‘Someone else’s Country’ all over again. 

      • prism 22.2.1
        12 September 2011 at 11:01 am

        Hey Puddleglum – Did you note the theme that continues through the Chilean system – that there are many wealthy people who have bought into the government infrastructure and own the major top earning companies?

        And the public have supported a centrist coalition in the belief that things were going to improve, even if slowly, but now that there is a change to the right they have galvanised for action because that means a worse life for the majority, less opportunities to improve living conditions. And that university education has been privatised and is now out of reach of most of the young people.

  23. Jasper 23
    11 September 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Is it possibly true that Don Brash is claiming a Leaders Salary from Parliament in his capacity as a vote losing Leader of the ACT party?

    The man hasn’t been a democratically elected cretin Member of Parliament, so therefore has no right to claim a salary.

    Can anyone confirm this?

  24. Jenny 24
    11 September 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Another tornado hits Auckland.

    No deaths reported, but there could easily have been.

    Can we just ignore this anymore?

    I am over 50 and have lived my whole life in Auckland and this threatening weather phenomenon has never impinged my consciousness before.

    How many more of these events can we expect this year, or the next?

    When will my suburb/home be hit?

  25. lprent 25
    11 September 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Test bug with auto-embeds enabled and Jetpack short-code embeds enabled allowing video embedding in comments

    http://plugins.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/1316

    Turned off Jetpack short-code embeds and the problem is fixed. 

  26. lprent 26
    11 September 2011 at 11:29 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0olef0e4JM&feature=related

    Fixed. Problem with wordpress auto-embeds and jetpack

    Typical: I go and die for a few days with the flu and a new feature bug turns up

  27. Jenny 27
    12 September 2011 at 5:57 am

    ‘
    Auckland’s Tornado Ally

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