Open Mike 11/09/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 11th, 2016 - 86 comments
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86 comments on “Open Mike 11/09/2016 ”

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    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      11 September 2016 at 11:47 am

      An article describing evidence, reports and reporting that the US Gov destroyed evidence around 9/11, and blocked/impeded investigations into it.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-09/government-hid-and-destroyed-911-evidence

      • Paul 1.1.1
        11 September 2016 at 12:13 pm

        I think you and I agree on this issue.
        However, there are many on the left who are too scared/incurious to question the official narrative of 9/11.

        The official narrative cannot explain building 7.

      • Paul 1.1.2
        11 September 2016 at 12:15 pm

        The Tide is Turning: The Official Story Is Now The Conspiracy Theory
        Paul Craig Roberts

        In America today “conspiracy kooks” outnumber those who believe the official lies.

        In a few days it will be the 15th anniversary of 9/11, and this November 13 will be the 53rd anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas. These two state crimes against democracy destroyed American democracy, accountable government, and the Constitution’s protections of civil liberty.

        Years after the damage done by these events the American people no longer believe the official stories. Neither does the government, but the government will never validate the distrust that Americans now share of the oligarchs’ government by acknowledging the truth.

        The official explanation of the assassination of President Kennedy never made any sense. Videos of the assassination contradicted the official story, as did witnesses, and many credible people challenged the government’s story. The CIA was faced with the official explanation becoming unglued and launched its media program stigmatizing doubters as “conspiracy theorists.”

        The CIA’s psych warfare against the public succeeded at the time and for a number of years during which witnesses had mysterious deaths and the trail grew cold. But by the late 1970s there was so much public skepticism of the official story that the US Congress took the risk of being labeled “conspiracy kooks.” The House Select Committee on Assassinations reopened the inquiry into JFK’s murder. The House Committee concluded that the Warren Commission’s investigation was seriously flawed, that there was more than one person firing at President Kennedy and that there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

        The corrupt US Department of Justice (sic) contradicted the House Select Committee’s report. However, the American people believed the Select Committee and not the corrupt Justice (sic) Department, which never tells the truth about anything.

        By 2013 polls showed that most Americans are “conspiracy kooks” who do not believe the official government line on JFK’s assassination. So with regard to JFK’s assassination, the “conspiracy theorists” are in the majority. The minority are the Americans who cannot escape their brainwashing.

        In a few days it will be the 15th anniversary of the alleged al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, and we are witnessing the fading protection that the charge of “conspiracy theorist” provides for the official government story. Indeed, the official 9/11 story is collapsing before our eyes.

        Europhysics, the respected publication of the European physics community has published an article by scientists who conclude that “the evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that all three [World Trade Center] buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition.” Few American scientists can admit this, because their careers depend on US government and military/security complex research contracts. Independent scientists in the US are a vanishing breed, an endangered species.

        The scientists say that in view of their findings, “it is morally imperative” that 9/11 “be the subject of a truly scientific and impartial investigation by responsible authorities.”

        So now we are faced with a peculiar situation. The scientifically ignorant two-bit punk American presstitutes claim to know more than the editors of the journal of the European physics community and the scientists who did the investigation. Don’t you think it farfetched that ignorant, corrupt, and cowardly American journalists who lie for money know more than physicists, chemists, 2,700 high-rise architects and structural engineers who have called on the US Congress to launch a real investigation of 9/11, firefighters and first responders who were on the WTC scene, military and civilian pilots and former high government officials, all of whom are on record challenging the unbelievable and physically impossible official story of 9/11? What kind of a dumbshit moron does a person have to be to believe that the United States government and its media whores know better than the laws of physics?

        http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/09/09/the-tide-is-turning-the-official-story-is-now-the-conspiracy-theory/

        • Paul 1.1.2.1
          11 September 2016 at 12:18 pm

          15 Years of Fighting for 9/11 Truth

          Since September 11, 2001, a growing number of people from around the world have publicly questioned the official story of the 9/11 terror attacks. For 15 years architects, engineers, actors, scientists, pilots, firefighters, activists, and family members of the victims have raised a wide range of questions related to the funding of the attacks, the physics of the building’s collapse, the possibility of controlled demolition or other exotic weapon use to bring the buildings down, and much, much more.

          For the 15th anniversary, the collective “9/11 Truth” movement will descend on New York City to protest and rally in the streets. The activists will rally at Ground Zero and other important sites throughout the city. There will also be a conference hosted by Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and NYC activists. The conference will feature prominent figures who have questioned the government’s version of events over the last 15 years.

        • Patrick Cummoskey 1.1.2.2
          11 September 2016 at 1:19 pm

          +100 Paul.

          9/11 was obviously set up as an excuse for Amerikkka to invade Iraq and get their oil. Bush should be in jail!

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.2.1
            11 September 2016 at 3:57 pm

            How does a beginner pilot terrorist whose flight instructor said could barely handle a single engine Cessna successfully manage a Boeing 757 for miles at an altitude of under 10m, finally executing a complex high speed turn just before striking the side of the Pentagon.

            And how was such a plane even allowed within 20 miles of the Pentagon which is surrounded by a military enforced no fly zone and ground to air defensive missiles.

            None of it makes sense.

            • Paul 1.1.2.2.1.1
              11 September 2016 at 4:22 pm

              The military/ industrial/political complex covering up the truth makes sense.

              • Colonial Viper …
                11 September 2016 at 4:30 pm

                I also find it interesting that a large number of people still seem dedicated to hew closely to the Official Story as being largely correct.

                • McFlock …
                  11 September 2016 at 4:43 pm

                  Personally, after fifteen years I’m a wee bit bored with delusional paranoiacs using internet echochambers (born of the exhaustion of people with lives who can’t be bothered re-teaching them basic physics for the millionth time) to impotently build massive conspiracies based on nothing more than supposition and their bizarre fantasies, thus perverting the deaths of several thousand people and the subsequent geopolitical ramifications (including the deaths of hundreds of thousands more) into their boring little Sunday afternoon hobby and wankfest.

                  Each to their own, I guess. Wipe the keyboard clean afterwards.

          • TheExtremist 1.1.2.2.2
            12 September 2016 at 2:37 pm

            Which is why they US planted Iraqi terrorists to pull it off….

            Oh wait….

  2. Paul 2
    11 September 2016 at 8:36 am

    Worth listening to.

    Insight: Cleaning Franchises – Business Opportunity or Dirty Business?

    ‘Franchises are often promoted as a great way to get into business with lots of back-up from a bigger company, but some argue that, in the cleaning industry, both workers and some owner-operators are losing out.
    Workers say they are being pushed out of their jobs by the aggressive tactics of commercial cleaning companies and the law that should be protecting them isn’t working.
    At the same time, some smaller owner-operators further down the food chain complain the business model is putting such a squeeze on their earnings they are paying themselves less than the minimum wage.’

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/201815332/cleaning-franchises-business-opportunity-or-dirty-business

    • Chooky 2.1
      11 September 2016 at 9:05 am

      +100..yes heard this …this jonkey Nactional government is responsible for making laws enabling multinational cleaning companies through their franchise companies taking New Zealand workers to the cleaners and making them redundant

      …in the interests of profit for the big boys

      …and undermining the unions

      …and undermining paying the minimum wage to New Zealand workers

      ( no doubt they will be replaced by foreign workers)

      ( I wonder if any Nact politicians have shares in the big cleaning companies?)

      most of these workers are New Zealand women on the lowest possible wages…it is a disgrace…and a crime against New Zealand women and their families

      i expect nursing will be next

      this government is absolutely despicable

      • Paul 2.1.1
        11 September 2016 at 9:10 am

        I am aware of cleaners whose pay and conditions have significantly declined while a dodgy manager drives in flash cars.
        Bad behaviour is rewarded by neoliberalism.

        • save nz 2.1.1.1
          11 September 2016 at 10:44 am

          +1 to everyone about the cleaning routs. Why the hell do we need multinational cleaning companies in NZ?????

          Where ever these multinational cleaning companies are linked there are price routs and employment scandals. Since they probably pay no local taxes – what is the point?

          P.s A few years ago went to OZ and ate something a zoo that had the cafe run by Spotless. Do not recommend. Am not sure it could even be considered food and if food is run by 1 staff member who looks about 12 years old and consists of microwaving fried rice that is chemically enhanced to last more than 100 years of shelf life.

          And apparently Spotless has the cleaning contract at Princess Wharf – many scandals about the BC and levy apartment fees, with freeloader Ports of Auckland in the mix of course.

          • Wayne 2.1.1.1.1
            11 September 2016 at 1:24 pm

            Spotless is an Australian company. Under CER all Australian companies have virtually the same rights as NZ companies.

            And I presume no-one is arguing that NZ pulls out of CER. Well, at least no serious political party would propose this, and I include the Greens in the category of serious. Actually even MANA presumably accepts the reality of CER.

            • Chooky 2.1.1.1.1.1
              11 September 2016 at 6:40 pm

              “multi-national Jani-King” is what they are talking about here …and overseas companies should abide by New Zealand worker rights

              …””I worked at Avalon Primary for 17 years, but then I was made redundant; it was a very very sad day because we were told we were no longer wanted, but just had to carry on with our work.”

              Ms Lawer worked at the school site in the Lower Hutt suburb not far from her home until the end of 2015, when the New Zealand arm of the multi-national Jani-King took over the cleaning contract from another company.

              It gave the contract to its franchisee, Phagura Limited. Ms Lawer was later sacked.

              “She said [Phagura’s director] she no longer can keep us because she can’t afford it, and her and her husband had to take the job over.”…

              The Employment Relations Act has a special section often called the “vulnerable workers’ clause”.

              It was designed to protect workers in industries like cleaning and food catering where contracts for service frequently change hands. It gives those vulnerable workers the right to transfer to the new owner-operator of the business on the same terms and conditions when their employer loses a contract to another company.

              Ms Lawer acknowledged that under the law the small family-owned business had a right to make her redundant.

              But an agreement for a redundancy payment was in her original contract, and Ms Lawer said that should have been passed along as contracts changed hands. She has never received one.

              She wants either Jani-King or Phagura Limited to pay her out $6804, or the equivalent of 30 weeks’ wages.

              As is often the case, several companies are involved and following the trail of who is responsible for what becomes increasingly complicated, adding to the difficulties workers can face.

              In this example, Jani-King was bought by JK Limited several months ago…

    • The Chairman 2.2
      11 September 2016 at 11:51 am

       Cleaning franchises aren’t the only ones.

      Courier drivers ‘virtually slaves’

      As contractors, drivers had few of the benefits of employees, yet they were still obliged to wear a corporate uniform, work certain hours, apply for annual leave, and work exclusively for one company – as well as providing their own vehicles.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/5754207/Courier-drivers-virtually-slaves

      Unfortunately, The Minimum Wage (Contractor Remuneration) Amendment Bill failed to pass the committee stage.

  3. Paul 3
    11 September 2016 at 9:24 am

    As I post regularly on this topic, here is Media Watch’s take on clickbait and Journalism.

    Stuff of substance in a clickbait climate
    Is serious journalism being swamped by ‘clickbait’ in the online age? Is the anguished debate about the future of it helping? Mediawatch asks an award-winning investigative reporter who’s just addressed trans-Tasman media top brass about the way forward.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201815259/stuff-of-substance-in-a-clickbait-climate

    As if to prove my point, here are some of New Zealand Herald’s stories today.

    Craig Busch: ‘You cannot abuse a lion’
    Shortland Street star beats a bully
    Pascoe’s pre-Rio heartbreak
    Elle Macpherson returning to NZ
    Kiwi blokes line up for date with Marcella
    Medical mishap: Family demands car

    Click.
    Bait.

  4. Incognito 4
    11 September 2016 at 9:54 am

    A few days ago Brigid commented in the post RNZ Auckland Mayoral Debate. She rightly said:

    In a real democracy all candidates would be invited to participate in the debate.

    She further questioned the role of the polls in selecting only the highest-polling candidates for public debates.

    Her comment so far has attracted only two quite disparaging comments, which I won’t bother linking to.

    I fully agree with Brigid and I think her comment touches on something quite important that deserves (more) attention.

    Some of the essential principles underpinning democracy are: freedom, fairness, and equality. Thus, regardless of some metric (i.e. polls) – or merit – all standing candidates ought to have fair and equal access to debates and the electorate at large. In the US this was recognised and applied through the Equal Time Rule. (NB how this works in practice, e.g. in the current US Presidential Elections is beside the point here)

    The point of (public) debates is to give the candidates exposure and a chance to interact with each other and the public. It is an opportunity to see them in action, on how they perform under pressure, for example. In short, it is an ever-so-brief chance to get to know them a little (better).

    Such information cannot be obtained by using Google or visiting Wikipedia although these may be useful for policy documents and the likes. To even suggest that going online can replace public debate is so not COOL.

    The other counter-argument made to Brigid’s comment was that one might end up having to listen to “nutjobs” or “nutters of all sorts with no hope at all of winning” [my bold] instead of “the three serious contenders” speaking for an hour each.

    This displays a prejudice that is intrinsically and fundamentally anti-democratic. A candidate might be a “nutter” to one person but at the same time he/she might be a strong advocate of neglected and ignored people who almost without excpetion find themselves at the political and social margins – people who need a voice and representation more than the ‘median’ person who will have the attention of the “serious contenders” and who are generally very well- if not over-represented in local and national politics.

    I’d like to recommend to people with such prejudice the excellent and illuminating post by STARGAZER on intersections.

    • The Chairman 4.1
      11 September 2016 at 10:14 am

      +1

    • Lanthanide 4.2
      11 September 2016 at 12:52 pm

      In brief, it’s also possible that if you turn up to the debates, you’ll get even less support after your views are aired.

      That’s particularly possible for the nutjobs.

      I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to take the small amount of time that is allocated to these debates, and give equal-footing to people who simply have no chance of winning. It takes away time from the contenders who have a real chance of winning, to get their particular message out.

      Yes, if more time were allowed for debates, then this argument is mostly neutered. On the flip-side however, if we were to have 100 hours of debates, no-one would watch all of them either.

      A line *has* to be drawn somewhere. For example if there were over 100 people running for mayor, your “everyone is entitled to debate” would mean all of those people would need to be invited to every debate, which isn’t tenable.

      So instead of dogmatically saying “everyone must be admitted to every debate”, I think you should be more realistic and discuss how and where the line should be drawn.

      • Incognito 4.2.1
        12 September 2016 at 10:16 pm

        My short response: whoosh!

        The slightly longer one:

        There’s not one single “nutjob” among the 18 or so candidates for the Auckland Mayoralty: Mayoral candidates: Meet the 18 trying to win the Auckland mayoralty. You’re simply parroting the same meme.

        Democracy is not about winning FFS! It is about fair and equal representation. That said, the current neo-liberal version of democracy is more about winners & losers.

        There’s no “100 hours of debates” but if there was then we would have the choice of watching or attending some (or all) of them.

        Similarly, there are no 100 candidates! Indeed, all the standing & confirmed candidates should be invited. They won’t all show up anyway and Vic Crone is a case in point: Auckland mayoral candidate Vic Crone missing from debates.

        In a truly-representative democracy no line gets drawn; that was my point.

        The irony seems to be lost on you when you labelled me “dogmatic”; using lazy labels and bogus examples are the tell-tale sign of someone who’s avoiding honest debate or has already lost the argument …

        • Lanthanide 4.2.1.1
          13 September 2016 at 8:36 am

          “There’s not one single “nutjob” among the 18 or so candidates for the Auckland Mayoralty”

          Maybe, maybe not. There is however a nutjob who runs for Christchurch mayor every time, and always comes last.

          “You’re simply parroting the same meme.”

          No, I’m making an argument with reasoned points. Parroting means repeating something unthinkingly.

          “There’s no “100 hours of debates” but if there was then we would have the choice of watching or attending some (or all) of them.”

          Except the candidates themselves don’t have time to spend doing 100 hours of debates. Similarly if you want to have all 18 candidates, in a 1 hour debate it means they would each get to speak for 3 1/3 minutes, assuming 0 ad breaks, 0 down-time between speakers and no moderation at all. That’s not a debate.

          Unless you want to have a 2-3 hour debate for that many participants, and still they won’t have enough time to get their points across. And many people won’t bother to watch it precisely for that reason.

          “Similarly, there are no 100 candidates!”

          It’s called an example. You HAVE to draw a line somewhere. It’s the same thing as people who say “why don’t you just put the minimum wage up to $100/hour?”, of course $100/hour is a silly minimum wage to have, but the level has to be set SOMEWHERE. So, pick a point and argue why that is appropriate.

          “In a truly-representative democracy no line gets drawn; that was my point.”

          Correct, every candidate is able to campaign as much as they like. Some select portion of those candidates, who have widespread support, will be selected to appear in debates.

          If you want to get into the debates, then you need to do a good job of getting widespread support first.

          This, like many other things, is simply rationing and distributing of resources, which is exactly what politics is about – how best we should manage our resources for the good of all. In this case, the resources are 1. TV/radio time, and 2. public attention. There is not unlimited TV/radio time, there is not unlimited public attention. We need to spend those resources in the best way we can to support democracy – that means NOT inviting EVERY SINGLE candidate to the debates, because most of those people have NO CHANCE of winning, and by inviting them you take away the opportunity of the viable candidates to get their message out to the public (see also, limited resource #2).

          “The irony seems to be lost on you when you labelled me “dogmatic”; using lazy labels and bogus examples are the tell-tale sign of someone who’s avoiding honest debate or has already lost the argument …”

          It’s not a lazy label nor are my examples bogus, they’re there to illustrate my point in stark relief. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

  5. Penny Bright 5
    11 September 2016 at 10:20 am

    I was the only Auckland Mayoral candidate who attended the Rally for Democracy yesterday at Victoria Park Auckland.

    That is because there is no other Auckland Mayoral candidate who is actively opposed to corrupt control, locally, nationally or internationally, by
    the corporate 1%, and those who serve their interests.

    Yesterday, that’s where I launched my Auckland Mayoral campaign, with my very simple message:

    “ONE tick to help make history!”

    MAYOR (tick) BRIGHT!

    And STICK IT to the corrupt crony corporate 1%!

    It’s not how you start the race – it’s how you finish …..

    And, as a political animal, of the feral ‘honey badger’ variety, I know a week is a LONG time in politics 🙂

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/313003/penny-bright-launches-auckland-mayoralty-bid

    Colourful Auckland activist Penny Bright has formally launched her bid for the mayoralty, running on her long-established anti-corruption platform.

    Penny Bright (left) and a supporter at her campaign launch.Penny Bright (left) and a supporter at her campaign launch. Photo: RNZ / Todd Niall
    Ms Bright who has given herself the nickname of “Her Warship” is pledging to take public transport out of the hands of private operators and force vacant homes to be made available.

    She launched her low-budget campaign as part of the Rally for Democracy in Auckland’s Victoria Park.

    Penny Bright finished a distant fourth in the mayoral race in 2013, and is one of 19 candidates.

    She is locked in a legal battle with the Auckland Council, having refused to pay rates for eight years, until the council publishes all details of contracts let to the private sector. ”

    Penny Bright

    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.

    ‘Activists – get things done’.

  6. save nz 6
    11 September 2016 at 10:37 am

    US Pay excess

    “Robert Reich: There’s one big unfinished promise by Bill Clinton that Hillary should put to bed”

    http://www.salon.com/2016/09/10/robert-reich-theres-one-big-unfinished-promise-by-bill-clinton-that-hillary-should-put-to-bed_partner/

    and how the ‘system’ seems to be in favour of keeping it that way.

    “Someone invented a $50 EpiPen — when will it arrive? A conversation with the doctor who invented it
    Douglas McMahon, an MD with a food allergy, made an EpiPen alternative that he wants to sell for $50. Why can’t he?”

    http://www.salon.com/2016/09/10/someone-invented-a-50-epipen-when-will-it-arrive-a-conversation-with-the-doctor-who-invented-it/

  7. Nic the NZer 7
    11 September 2016 at 10:46 am

    Economist Ian Fletcher on free-trade

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.co.nz/2016/09/ian-fletcher-on-free-trade.html

    Particularly interesting point about free-trade undermining productivity (where NZ has been weak since about the 1980’s), essentially if production is done domestically then there is a common interest between managers and workers in maintaining and increasing domestic productivity. If production is outsourced (the free-trade model) then there is no common interest and no reason for management to support domestic productivity.

    This applies to any kind of free-trade policy, going far beyond the investor right deals like the TPPA which barely have any implications for liberalizing trade.

  8. Colonial Viper 8
    11 September 2016 at 10:51 am

    Max Keiser and Stacey Herbert cover how the Irish tax authorities co-operated with Apple to hide billions in taxes

    Ireland had a massive 26% increase in GDP…by suddenly allowing Apple to stash all it’s operations on to the Irish books.

  9. reason 9
    11 September 2016 at 4:50 pm

    Today is the anniversary of when the U.sa and the military in Chile overthrew a democratically elected government …. “On September 11, 1973, the Chilean military, aided by the United States and its Central Intelligence Agency CIA, staged a coup against Allende.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/07/chile-coup-pinochet-allende

    “The military junta that took over dissolved the Congress of Chile and began a persecution of alleged dissidents, in which thousands of Allende’s supporters were kidnapped, tortured, and murdered.”

    ” the military and police torturers were ready with their electrodes, thumbscrews and waterboarding equipment to defend “western Christian civilisation”. Many had been brought to a peak of perfection in their trade in the US itself or in its bases in the Panama canal zone by US instructors.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/pinochet-victim-widow-fights-for-justice

  10. Colonial Viper 10
    11 September 2016 at 4:51 pm

    Sophie & Co speaks to Ron S. Katz, sports lawyer, Chair Emeritus of the Institute of Sports Law and Ethics at Stanford University about the collective banning of Russian para-Olympic athletes from Rio.

    Some basic points:
    – Collective punishment of athletes is incompatible with western legal norms as there is a high likelihood that you will be punishing innocent athletes.
    – Making individual athletes responsible for proving their own innocence is likewise incompatible with western legal norms as the burden of proof must always fall with the authorities.
    – It seems clear that western media and western political pressure influenced judgements made against the Russian team.
    – The McLaren report shows prejudgement against Russian athletes, and the use of anonymous/undisclosed evidence inappropriate and not credible, failing the standard of any real court
    – Richard McLaren himself admits that he only “skimmed” the evidence available before writing his report, and did not even try to speak to any individuals or officials on the Russian team.
    – WADA is a broken, incompetent organisation and made a very poor choice in picking McLaren to write the report as he had taken long standing positions against Russia previously.
    – International Court of Arbitration clearly did not read the McLaren report properly before coming to their own decisions against the Russian team, as the McLaren report clearly fails on its own terms.
    – Believes that Russia has a very strong case for additional appeals/hearings.

    • McFlock 10.1
      11 September 2016 at 5:10 pm

      Newsflash: RT upset sanctions taken against terminally flawed anti-doping farce.

      If an athlete wishes to compete, they need to be demonstrably drug free. By allowing Russia’s anti-doping body to become a farce, Putin’s regime effectively denied many Russian athletes the ability to demonstrate that they met this qualification to compete.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1
        11 September 2016 at 5:32 pm

        Yes, that’s the parroted MSM narrative, but it is not the conclusion of Ron S Katz, sports lawyer and Chair Emeritus at Princeton in the interview.

        Who views the western legal norms against collective punishment, use of anonymous/secret evidence and correct burden of proof as being important principles which were not upheld in the decisions against Russian athletes.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          11 September 2016 at 5:36 pm

          lawyers are like water quality scientists, you know…

        • Chooky 10.1.1.2
          11 September 2016 at 6:55 pm

          +100 CV…most people regard what happened to the Russian para-Olympic athletes as unfair and were disgusted by the bullying…they were not proved to be drug takers

          • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.2.1
            11 September 2016 at 8:03 pm

            …most people regard what happened to the Russian para-Olympic athletes as unfair…

            Well, yes – the clusterfuck their government brought down on their heads was very unfair. But at the international level, them’s the breaks.

            …they were not proved to be drug takers

            That’s exactly the problem – there’s no basis for assessing whether they were being given performance-enhancing drugs or not, which is why the various international bodies are blocking them. Do try to keep up.

            • Chooky 10.1.1.2.1.1
              11 September 2016 at 8:53 pm

              most people I know thought it was distasteful and disgustingly unfair

              re…”there’s no basis for assessing whether they were being given performance-enhancing drugs or not”…condemned by your own words?…that is exactly why it wasn’t fair! ( are you an amoral moron?)

              ‘Horrendous & terribly unfair ban of Russian Paralympians based on politicized report’

              https://www.rt.com/op-edge/355019-russia-paralympics-ban-horrendous/

              “The International Paralympic Committee’s move to ban all Russian athletes from participating in the Rio Games is an unfair and unjust decision based on a completely biased and politically motivated McLaren report, independent writer Rick Sterling told RT….

              ‘In what world does this make sense?’: Russian Paralympic ban met with confusion online’

              https://www.rt.com/viral/354960-paralympic-ban-russia-reaction/

              • Psycho Milt …
                11 September 2016 at 8:57 pm

                …that is exactly why it wasn’t fair!

                Sure. Their own government shafted them by running a thoroughly corrupt drug-testing programme, such that international sporting bodies now can’t trust the Russian athletes’ drug test results and therefore don’t want them competing. It’s unfair, but living in a Mafia state is unfair in many and varied ways.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  11 September 2016 at 9:04 pm

                  The Olympics have been used by the western powers as a political weapon against Russia, whom they have decided is a geopolitical enemy.

                  In doing so, western authorities completely undermined the very principles they said they believed in – the rule of law, individual responsibility and due process.

                  You shouldn’t excuse them so easily for this collapse of their ethics.

                  • TheExtremist …
                    12 September 2016 at 3:25 pm

                    “The Olympics have been used by the western powers as a political weapon against Russia”

                    Bahahahahahahahahahha

        • SJW 10.1.1.3
          11 September 2016 at 10:27 pm

          The way I see it is that it was the Russia that ought to have been punished, via the complete ban, for the state organisation of the cheating. That it no doubt harsh on the sportspeople that were not involved, but they can take that up with the ones ended up handing out BMWs

      • Paul 10.1.2
        11 September 2016 at 7:28 pm

        Do you believe everything the msm tells you?

        • McFlock 10.1.2.1
          11 September 2016 at 7:34 pm

          Nope.
          Including RT.

          Do you believe everything RT tells you? What have they ever reported that you outright disagree with? I find them as laughable on some issues as say CNN, but not as bad as Fox.

          • Paul 10.1.2.1.1
            11 September 2016 at 7:37 pm

            That’s good to hear.
            I also don’t trust any msm source. Including RT.

            The BBC, the Guardian and the New York Post are propaganda outlets for the western establishment.

            • McFlock 10.1.2.1.1.1
              11 September 2016 at 7:47 pm

              Meh.

              Different sectors, different audiences, different interests.

              Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

                • McFlock …
                  11 September 2016 at 9:04 pm

                  Pretty much. Propaganda melds bullshit with chunks of truth. So even RT says some true things, as long as they lend validity to their larger position. So the problem becomes one of identifying the larger position and adding scepticism to the reports that intersect with it.

                  A bit like what we do around the smoko room every day, if people start gossiping.

  11. Colonial Viper 11
    11 September 2016 at 5:47 pm

    Massive Trump rally in Pensacola Florida, 15K plus in attendence, lines forming from 6:30am.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/09/donald-trump-rally-pensacola-florida-800pm-edt-live-stream/

    Hillary Clinton says that half of these people are “ireedemable” and a bigoted, racist, hating, “basket of deplorables.”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-half-trump-supporters-belong-basket-deplorables-n646026

    Clinton now +2.7% compared to Trump on nationwide polls.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    • rhinocrates 11.1
      11 September 2016 at 10:54 pm

      An impolitic remark by her, but seemingly an appropriate one:

      http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/_hang_the_b_tch_f_g_n_gger_uncensored_video_of_trump_rallies_exposes_culture_he_s_created

      Plus the endorsements from David Duke and the head of the American N— Party, which he’s happy to have.

      http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/alt-right-makes-its-main-stream-debut

      http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-alt-right-breitbart-news

      Visiting Breitbart, I found links directly to outright Neo-N— organisations and sites.

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        11 September 2016 at 11:00 pm

        yes breitbart is a right wing website

        • rhinocrates 11.1.1.1
          11 September 2016 at 11:07 pm

          And Breitbart chief Stephen Bannon is now running Trump’s campaign.

          I’m not exaggerating. One site directly linked to Breitbart, called Red Ice, was full of “documentaries” praising Hitler and its view on the Holocaust was split between it never happened and it was cool.

          National Socialism is not an ideology I would be eager to see given a hearing in the White House, yet is already upfront on the campaign.

          I find it incredible that people with ostensibly left-wing principles are so consumed by their hatred of Clinton that they are cheerleading for this evil.

          • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1
            12 September 2016 at 12:11 am

            *shrug* Clinton and her neocon bankster mates have the proven track record of global death and destruction.

            • rhinocrates 11.1.1.1.1.1
              12 September 2016 at 8:55 am

              I’m no fan of Clinton by any means, but…

              Maybe you’re too young to remember any victims, but I have family connections with the Holocaust through my stepfather, whose cousins shared an annexe with a young girl who kept a diary.

              You can guess what happened to them.

              The fact that you respond to N—sm with a contemptuous ‘shrug’ indicates that you have completely lost touch with reality or you are a truly horrible human being.

              • Colonial Viper …
                12 September 2016 at 9:08 am

                Clinton was instrumental in destroying Libya the richest country in Africa, causing a death toll which possibly runs into the hundreds of thousands, and turning it into a failed state controlled by Islamists who execute their own genocidal ideology in real life in modern times.

                BTW the Clinton’s US neocon set has been instrumental in supporting and arming actual neo-N’s in power in Kiev, people who have done things like burn dozens of people alive in the Trade Union building in Odessa, and who have their own paramilitary units. Not just a few website crazies.

              • TheExtremist …
                12 September 2016 at 3:27 pm

                Completely lost touch with reality

  12. William Joyce 12
    11 September 2016 at 6:07 pm

    Perhaps someone better informed than me can help me.
    Why is it common to hear of RNZAF aircraft – Hercules & 757s – being grounded while on official duties (e.g. PM’s trip to Pac forum) or on exercise being grounded for one reason or another?
    Why can the airforce not maintain them to a state of continuing readiness?

    • Colonial Viper 12.1
      11 September 2016 at 6:21 pm

      The Hercules are extremely old airframes and we don’t have enough of them so they all have to work very hard.

  13. Paul 13
    11 September 2016 at 7:24 pm

    The Herald back to its role of mimicking Pravda.

    Liam Dann: Return of the rock star economy the right time to tackle inequality

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11706840

    • b waghorn 13.1
      11 September 2016 at 8:51 pm

      I’ve watched that clip twice , it seems to me that the bagrie chap completely contradicts himself, his first chat is all ra ra rock star, and his second chat is more closer to what is going on, it’s odd

  14. Paul 14
    11 September 2016 at 8:09 pm

    Brilliant cartoon.
    ‘A problem that is bigger than The Chiefs – In fact bigger than NZ rugby.’

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsBP7CJVIAAhETr.jpg:large

  15. Pat 15
    11 September 2016 at 8:20 pm

    “Of course, regenerative farming doesn’t offer a permanent solution to the climate crisis; soils can only hold a finite amount of carbon. We still need to get off fossil fuels, and – most importantly – we have to kick our obsession with endless exponential growth and downsize our material economy to bring it back in tune with ecological cycles. But it might buy us some time to get our act together”

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2016/sep/10/soil-our-best-shot-at-cooling-the-planet-might-be-right-under-our-feet

    tick tock…

  16. joe90 16
    11 September 2016 at 9:15 pm

    When you think things are as weird as they’ll ever be, Sean Hannity drunk tweets in defence of Julian Assange.

    http://therightscoop.com/sean-hannity-triggered-into-trumpertantrum-twitter-meltdown-again/

    https://twitter.com/search?q=sean+hannity+julian+assange

  17. fisiani 17
    11 September 2016 at 9:29 pm

    Could life get any better?
    All Blacks win again -Check
    Celtic thump Sevco -Check
    National government -Check

    3 Champion performers.

    • Gangnam Style 17.1
      12 September 2016 at 4:29 pm

      YOu live your life thru them? How fucking sad is that! Get out in the fresh air & maybe achieve something on your own you sad sack.

  18. Sanctuary 18
    12 September 2016 at 12:08 pm

    A: Knock Knock!
    B: Who’s there?
    A: 9/11!
    B: 9/11 who?
    A: .. you said you wouldn’t forget 🙁

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