Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
When a war between the states threatened to rip our country apart, the members of our state had no problem whatsoever ripping the state apart and seceding from Virginia, just as Virginia had seceded from the Union. We formed our own state in 1863, thank you very much.
The only reason anyone still burns coal today is because of the enormous political power and inertia that the industry has acquired since the 19th century. In America, that power and inertia is embodied in the cruel and cartoonish character of West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, who, paradoxically, may have more control over the trajectory of the climate crisis than any other person on the planet right now.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
CO₂ and Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Human emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases – are a primary driver of climate change – and present one of the world’s most pressing challenges. This link between global temperatures and greenhouse gas concentrations – especially CO₂ – has been true throughout Earth’s history.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them,
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Walensky explained: "A study of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated between December and October demonstrated that severe disease occurred in about 0.015 percent of the people who received their primary series and death in 0.003 percent of those people."
In a tweet posted on January 9 following the GMA interview, Walensky said: "We must protect people with comorbidities from severe #COVID19. I went into medicine – HIV specifically – and public health to protect our most at-risk. CDC is taking steps to protect those at highest risk, incl. those w/ chronic health conditions, disabilities & older adults."
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was ripped off from "an homage to" some other movie.
But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous…
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake.
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
While two doses still provide good protection against severe illness, the study found that booster shots increased protection against symptomatic infection to 75 per cent.
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .
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Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Writer Rebecca K Reilly breaks down the national book awards. What are the Ockhams?The Ockham New Zealand Book Awards are our annual national awards for books published for adults, and have existed in this form since 2016. There are four categories: Fiction, Poetry, General Non-fiction and Illustrated Non-fiction. There ...
Wellington City Council should keep its 34% ownership share in Wellington International Airport, argue Unions Wellington spokespeople Finn Cordwell and Ashok Jacob. Insanity, as the saying goes, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wellington City Council (WCC) is yet again proposing to dispose ...
New Zealand’s largest book publisher has undergone drastic changes this week, leaving its future role in local publishing uncertain. Two of the most recognisable local publishers in New Zealand are among those restructured out of Penguin Random House, it was announced this week. Head of publishing Claire Murdoch will leave ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist A former Tuvalu prime minister says while the New Zealand government’s oil and gas plans show it is concerned about its economy, he is more concerned about the livelihoods and survival of the Tuvalu people. Enele Sopoaga — who still serves as an MP ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Many people who follow federal budgets know about the magnificent “budget tree” in a parliamentary courtyard, which turns a glorious red in time for the May event. This week Treasurer Jim Chalmers posed by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Bennett, Professor of Music, Australian National University Richard P J Lambert/flickr, CC BY The future belongs to the analogue loyalists. Fuck digital. As a tsunami of CDs, DAT tapes and samplers swept the recording industry in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Strong, Associate professor, Music Industry, RMIT University This week American rapper Macklemore released a new track, Hind’s Hall, which has gained a lot of attention because of its explicitly political nature. The track is unapologetically pro-Palestine. It declares the artist’s ...
Explainer - The government from 2025 is mandating how state schools teach children to read. But what is structured literacy and how does it compare to other teaching methods? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Danica Jenkins, Lecturer in European Studies, University of Sydney On a freezing spring night in March, Georgia’s national soccer team beat Greece in a nail-biter penalty shootout to qualify for the Euro 2024 championships. The atmosphere on the streets of the capital ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam G. Arian, Lecturer (Accounting & Finance), Australian Catholic University Loic Manegarium/Pexels Imagine every ton of carbon dioxide a company emits is slowly inflating its costs — not just in terms of potential fines or fees but in the capital it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Somwrita Sarkar, Senior Lecturer in Design and Computation, University of Sydney The “latte line” is the infamous, invisible boundary that divides Sydney between the more affluent north-east and the south-west. Historically, people north of the line enjoy better access to jobs and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dowdy, Principal Research Scientist in Extreme Weather, The University of Melbourne Nomad_Soul/Shutterstock In media articles about unprecedented flooding, you’ll often come across the statement that for every 1°C of warming, the atmosphere can hold about 7% more moisture. This ...
RNZ Pacific Former Fiji Prime Minister Voreqe Bainimarama has been sentenced to one year in prison, Fiji media are reporting. Bainimarama, alongside suspended Fiji Police Commissioner Sitiveni Qiliho appeared in the High Court in Suva today for their sentencing hearing for a case involving their roles in blocking a police ...
Acting Chief Human Rights Commissioner Saunoamaali’i Dr Karanina Sumeo says, “Addressing violence and abuse remains New Zealand’s most significant human rights issue affecting women. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Symons, Macquarie School of Social Sciences, Macquarie University Michael Schiffer / Unsplash Life has transformed our world over billions of years, turning a dead rock into the lush, fertile planet we know today. But human activity is currently transforming Earth ...
One woman’s quest to watch Challengers without ruining her body clock. Every Saturday morning, I wake up with a screaming demon inside my head urging me to “Do. Something. This. Weekend.” I run through the possibilities in my head in a defensive mental crouch, reminiscent of that one time I ...
The PSA is alarmed that ACC is proposing to shed 309 jobs including 29 dedicated injury prevention jobs at a time when the number and cost of injuries is rising. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tom Baker, Associate Professor in Human Geography, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images As local and regional councils struggle with inadequate infrastructure and unsustainable costs, New Zealand will be hearing a lot more about the potential solution offered by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gary Sacks, Professor of Public Health Policy, Deakin University Drazen Zigic/Shutterstock In recent years, there’s been increasinghype about the potential health risks associated with so-called “ultra-processed” foods. But new evidence published this week found not all “ultra-processed” foods are linked ...
Fears that New Zealand is relying too heavily on low-cost forests to absorb its carbon dioxide emissions have been reignited by a report from the OECD. ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed the total dollar savings target from public sector cuts has been met, but the reductions have not been felt evenly across public agencies. Government departments were told to make savings set at 6.5 percent or 7.5 percent where headcount had grown by more than ...
She doesn’t have a single kind word for me and it’s getting under my skin.Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,I have two amazing friends that I absolutely adore. Grace (all names have been changed) and I lived together across 2023 and Olivia moved in with us this ...
Can Western science and Māori science work together to support our well-being? The Te Ohu Mō Papatūānuku (TOMP) Trials Project was a landmark case for healing the land and people with the guidance of Māori science and leadership. This is what happened when Papatūānuku (Earth) was contaminated by toxic discharge, ...
The District Plan is a blueprint for a bigger, better Wellington, through tens of thousands of new apartments and townhouses and a new approach to urban growth. Joel MacManus lays out the vision. The process of putting together Wellington’s new District Plan has been long and excruciating. As a city, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Leah Williams Veazey, ARC DECRA Research Fellow, University of Sydney DavideAngelini/Shutterstock In the 2007 film The Bucket List Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman play two main characters who respond to their terminal cancer diagnoses by rejecting experimental treatment. Instead, they go ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mohan Singh, Professor of Agri-Food Biotechnology, School of Agriculture, Food and Ecosystem Sciences at the University of Melbourne., The University of Melbourne Tanja Esser/Shutterstock Australia’s vital agriculture sector will be hit hard by steadily rising global temperatures. Our climate is already ...
The Acumen Edelman Trust barometer reported that New Zealand’s political trust score now sits below the global average, a topic explored in a recent discussion paper by Maxim Institute. ...
Greenpeace Aotearoa executive director Russel Norman says, "The Fast-Track Bill is the most damaging piece of environmental legislation any Government has introduced in living memory. People are angry, and it’s time to march." ...
The school lunches programme has been retained – and will be extended to some preschoolers. So how is it going to cost $107 million less? To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. The minister with many hats David Seymour wears a number of hats, but this week ...
“Show us the bird,” I found myself muttering at times while reading Hard by the Cloud House by Peter Walker, a deeply thoughtful, often hilarious, at times rambling – but somehow delightfully so – search for the story of a big bird. But not just any bird: the bird. This ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jack Marley, Environment + Energy Editor, UK edition DPVUE .images/Shutterstock Your home was probably designed for a climate that no longer exists. As long as humanity continues to burn fossil fuel, padding the heat-trapping blanket of gases in Earth’s atmosphere, the ...
A senior lawyer has filed a complaint about tikanga becoming a required law school module. Law lecturer Carwyn Jones explains what he’s getting wrong. “…the first law of Aotearoa, a law that served the needs of tangata whenua for a thousand years before the arrival of tauiwi.”– Ani Mikaere ...
In 2019, an Auckland woman woke up from surgery to find that she had undergone a treatment she didn’t consent to. She tells Alex Casey about her experience. From her very first period at the age of 14, Laura experienced “debilitating” levels of pain that forced her to withdraw from ...
In the gloom following director-general Al Morrison’s job cuts in 2013, the Department of Conservation restructured its operations arm. Eleven conservancy districts were whittled into six new “conservation delivery” regions, under which the Rēkohu/Wharekauri/Chatham Islands area, comprising 40 scattered islands more than 800km east of Christchurch, was tethered to the ...
One of th e country’s top litigation lawyers says New Zealand is seeing a lift in court action between companies. Chapman Tripp partner Justin Graham, who oversees a team of around 80 litigation specialists, says the courts are now so log-jammed that it’s taking over two years to get cases ...
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Comment: Concerns about the state of the economy are creeping up to the top of firms’ list of challenges. That’s evident in both surveys and the tone of our recent client discussions. Skimming the past few weeks of eco-news, it’s not hard to see why. – Retail card spending fell ...
Opinion: Could former co-leader James Shaw still make a difference to working with National? The post How the Greens could be contenders appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Opinion: What if we got rid of our existing drug laws and replaced them with a new law that legalised and carefully regulated all psychoactive substances, from cannabis to MDMA, methamphetamine and LSD to magic mushrooms? And which also included legal drugs such as alcohol and nicotine. “Wow,” you might ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government is talking up the crucial role of gas as a transition fuel “through to 2050 and beyond”. In a gas strategy to be released on Thursday, the government envisages the fuel’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Next week the government will again next try to get its legislation through to deal with non-citizens who won’t cooperate with efforts to deport them. The bill, which the opposition and crossbench refused to rush ...
A long-term project that will set out an alternative vision for Aotearoa that looks beyond the narrow confines of the policy straight jacket adopted by successive governments. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bree Hurst, Associate Professor, Faculty of Business and Law, QUT, Queensland University of Technology TK Kurikawa/Shutterstock A much-awaited report into Coles and Woolworths has found what many customers have long believed – Australia’s big supermarkets engage in price gouging. What started ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Ghezelbash, Associate Professor and Deputy Director, Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, UNSW Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney The Albanese government wanted to avoid an inquiry into its migration amendment bill. The report, handed down yesterday by a senate committee that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joo-Cheong Tham, Professor, Melbourne Law School, The University of Melbourne Lobbying is at the heart of government. Who has access to and influence over key government officials shapes the decisions governments make – and how they make them. The ability to influence ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Myfany Turpin, Associate Professor, Ethnomusicology, Linguistics and Ethnobiology, University of Sydney The act representing Australia at this year’s Eurovision contest has sadly not qualified for the grand final. Yet for Zaachariaha Fielding and Michael Ross, the duo that makes up Electric Fields, ...
In announcing changes to the school lunches programme, David Seymour said kids would no longer be served ‘woke’ foods. To clear up any confusion, The Spinoff has compiled a guide to the wokeness levels of some common food items. Apple = NOT WOKE Avocado = WOKE Avocado, smashed = EVEN ...
Wildland! I got it from the local library, and it's the best insight into the dysfunction of the USA that an investigative journalist can do using well-selected interviews & a natural rapport with those he talks to.
He mentions seeing in Clarksburg during the first pandemic year the trendy T-shirt with the slogan West Virginia: Self Isolating Since 1863. Here's the origin of that…
Coal country. Manchin!
A Democrat, of course. An avatar of democracy. The best that money can buy.
I've mentioned this on here many times before, but Manchin is a DINOsaur. Democrat In Name Only. He caucuses with the Democrats but in almost every other respect his political thought resides on the other side of the political divide. Indeed he has in recent times suggested that he may leave the Democrats and continue his tenure in the Senate as an Independent,but caucusing with the Democrats a la Bernice Saunders. That would avoid the loss of the Senate from the Democrats to the Republicans, and would also allow him to continue to control the passage of any meaningful legislation to his personal agenda.
Yeah I get the picture. However, that framing kinda disregards how such people get to be selected by the party in the first place. It tries to ignore the representative part of democracy. If he didn't seem representative of democratic interests, they would not have selected him.
Then there's the other dimension that the framing disregards: why democrat voters continue to vote for him instead of a democrat challenger.
So you can see why the framing appears suspect to a centrist like me. It's as if those who invented DINO were trying to dissociate themselves from other democrats. In other words, it suggests an internal divide within the party.
If that is a revelation new to you, then you have not been paying attention. There is a huge divide within the Democrats Manchin is one – his compatriot Kyrsten Simena from Arizona have together stuffed up practically all of the progressive legislation introduced to the Senate by the House in support of the Biden Administrations Build Back Better policies – much of it addressed to inproving the financial position of poor and middle class Families addressing climate change and a raft of other progressive initiatives. Their obstructionist actions do not go unnoticed by the wealthy nor by the voters who put them there.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/28/joe-manchin-kyrsten-sinema-build-back-better-plan
The Greens going back to their roots is a great idea for keeping everyone happy. The Greens will feel they are honest to their cause and are holding everyone to account. The Right can relax because finally the Greens in power won't be an issue.
For people like me who believe MAN made climate change is a scam, I couldn’'t be happier.
Commentator, Tiger Mountain, says the Right has a thing about the Greens – he's right, we think they are nuts. Now, any honest righty, has to admit the the Greens do make some pertinent points. And they have/are changing the way will view our environment.
Take farmers for example. Farmers have made huge strides with environmental management of their farms. Their thanks for that effort is Labour dumping on them, and Delahunty’ still not happy with farmers. Meanwhile, the latte drinking, Fair Trade shopping, organic munching, vegan touting city Green slicker, who lives in an environment that may be more detrimental towards global pollution gets a free ride.
Yeah, we don't like the Greens.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
[long standing policy, no climate denial under my posts. – weka]
do you speak for all idiots, or just a small percentage?
I speak for myself. Do you have anything to add apart from nothing?
No, I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn't be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
Bush fires are also caused by climate change apparently.
Opps, reply meant for Robert.
No I believe the climate is changing. Man, has little to do with it.
Al Gore is yanking your chain. In fact I shouldn’t be writng this because I should be under 3 metres of water according to one nut I read.
The fact that some early AGW climate change alarmists got their predictions horribly wrong about how quickly the ice would melt & seas flood low-lying regions, & didn’t understand the complexity of how AGW would affect jet streams & weather systems (producing the weather extremes & anomalies we are seeing far more of today) doesn’t mean the theory & science is wrong.
I think the science is now being proved right every year, with increasing ice mass loss, many more weather extremes, oceans warming, and in this country ever warmer Winters.
But, if you believe the climate is changing but anthropogenic global warming is not the cause, what do you believe the cause actually is?
"In fact I shouldn't be writing this…"
Weka agrees.
Thanks, weka.
Edit: Blade! Don’t look up! 🙂
Always helpful to moderation when people make their position abundantly clear 😈
lol the edit. That phrase is going to be handy.
Haven't had to tell people not to do climate denial under my posts for ages. Don't even bother putting a note at the bottom of the posts now. Things have changed.
There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.
Probably confused also as to why its neighbour doesn't have Covid.
Probably a hoax.
The whole thing.
Moon landing…
Dinosaurs…
Apparently, satellites have revealed the remains of what can only be Noah's ark, on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, or Arrowroot, or somewhere.
I knew it!
''There's still a calcified core, an atrophied nub, a wizened vestigial appendage, that can't rid itself of the nagging doubt that seizes it when it look out its own window and sees clear skies.''
I bit of self reflection on your part is not a bad thing, Robert. Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers.
The first time I came across CC as a theory was in a eco/ greenie mag called Maggie's Farm ( circa1986).
An article in that mag was by R,HeruAyani and Parri White: Quote:
''While you sleep weather extremes around the world are breaking century old records''
They went on suggest ozone depletion as a major cause of climate change. Of course that is still debated.
CC is the meme for our age. In a 100 years time this time period will be a major study in universities around the world. Students will gasp at how science became a political expedient for pushing agendas.
Come back to us in 2 years time, Blade, when the Arctic goes ice free, about September 2023. Then tell us the climate isn't rapidly changing!
You are basing this on what, Tony? Climate modelling…or One News?
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/wmo-recognizes-new-arctic-temperature-record-of-38%E2%81%B0c
I may stick to the more relevant Antarctic, Tony. I guess with all this melting ice you will be worried about ocean levels rising and flooding parts of coastal continents?
''In fact, the Antarctic continent has not warmed in the past seven decades, despite a steady increase in the atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.''
"Man made climate change believers are no different to deniers."
Quote of the age.
Only if you can't see a common thread, Robert. And it seems you can't.
The recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels doesn't look like a 'natural' trend. All that fossil fuel carbon has to go – somewhere.
Is the recent rapid rise in atmospheric CO₂ levels driving an alarmingly rapid rise in average global temperatures? The consensus opinion of climate scientists is 'YES'.
Don't understand how/why a rational person could/would conclude otherwise, although there are some who ‘think’ that this iteration of civilisation is too big to fail, while simultaneously believing that 8 billion puny humans couldn’t possibly compromise the life-sustaining global cycles of spaceship Earth. Amazing, and quite funny in its own way.
Being a believer is for religion, man made climate change is a scientifically proven fact, weather one "believes " is irrelevant.
For an antiscience guy you come across well normally. All that hooha about the hockey stick turned out to be due to using wrong data sets. I read a book about it once by a denier & thought it rather good at the time but years later became aware that the deniers were misrepresenting a northern hemisphere regional effect as global. Still not sure if it was deliberate fakery or inadvertent confusion on their part. Think it was either the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed that they used. I vaguely recall the logic ran like this: doesn't show up on Gore's hockey stick so he got it wrong.
Well, elementary! Gore didn't conjure anything. He used the results of the global measuring system. On the volcano in Hawaii, if I recall right, there's a sampling station.
Major regional variations that produce different climates are extremely interesting and haven't featured much in media. The one that created the Sahara, for instance, only a few millennia back. Israel was the land of milk & honey according to the bible when Joshua led his genocide campaign on God's instruction to kill all the indigenous people including women & children. Now mostly desert. Cedars of Lebanon built Solomon's temple.
Maybe I should cancel my NewScientist subscription, Dennis? Maybe I should give it to you?
I left the mainstream science view behind over half a century ago, even before I graduated. Not saying NS has no value – probably do still publish worthy stuff – but not enough leading-edge focus for me. Think the last one I checked out was in the '80s.
Well, Nature is meant to be the gold standard in academic research publication. But they are so blinkered I don't waste my time. Can you suggest suitable reading material.
Depends on your interests – there's no go to place for all of science. I started in physics but shifted towards a multidisciplinary overview. About the only useful skill you get from universities is an inkling of how to learn. Scan a bunch of sources to get the gist of the topic, that sort of thing.
If your inner bullshit detector is good, figure out the authorities in the field of interest, then go for those currently setting the pace. Especially useful are books written by experts who are trying to inform the public about key findings.
One needs to be able to detect any ideology driving the author, and then gauge how much it warps his/her judgment of the elements of significance in the field or in the issues. Bias is human nature but it need not put a reader off if you can see how much it is affecting the author's descriptions.
NS was and still is useful for getting an short overview across a large number of fields. I have never read it for depth. I have read it for overview.
Periodically I renew a online subscription – but it really depends on how flush I feel, and if I think I have time to read it. It is (for instance) way behind my annual payment to wikipedia – which I random read topics on for much the same reasons that I have read NS.
But these days I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages.
I seem to get an awful lot of cheaper online linkages
Yeah, me too. I agree a wiki on a topic is fastest & easiest for an overview. It will usually be near the top of our google search page.
Striking gold online is still a function of optimal keyword selection. That's an internal mental discipline that all long-time users refine but I'm always impressed by how often minor variations throw up new gold nuggets when searching online.
It's funny. I use a couple of programs at work, but we collaborate with other people and that can involve figuring out the basics of programs completely new to me.
Trying to do the same stuff in each program, there are a couple of new-to-me programs that my ignorance of is so complete that I can't even reliably google how to do something. The developers and operating community have such a completely different orientation to my brainstylez that I literally don't have the words.
R is a good example: to take a column from one table and join it with another is the function "cbind". So you need to know that the math crowd call them "columns" not "fields" in order to get the "c", and they "bind" rather than "join" or "merge" to get the rest of the function name. I was script-punching without any understanding for months before that clicked in my head. Which meant my google searches were all about "fields" and "joins" in R, and bore little fruit and I flailed about in the water, praying for the project to end lol.
Technicalities in your 3rd paragraph defeat my comprehension but I get the overall gist. Reminds us that we need language to communicate, and language is produced by a community.
Decoding, deciphering, requires an interpretive key, schema, algorithm. So you get a triadic structure: system A, bridging key, system B – which often maps onto the relation of person to group. The relation then becomes an info channel or conduit.
New Scientist subscription? Blade are you by any chance Deborah Russell.
She seems to get her information on biological science from New Scientist, claming that she read there that sex was on a spectrum. Its not. With the exception of a fraction of a fraction of people (intersex, but not most intersex) humans are either male or female and you can't change your biological sex
See Iprent's post above. He hits the nail on the head regarding NS.
Apart from that I wouldn't have a clue what your post is about. I'm sure it's something profound. It's just a little over my IQ quadrant.
Hi Blade, yes apologies that was a bit obscure.
in the Select Committee hearings on the BMDRR Bill Deborah Russell quoted or rather mis-quoted an article from Scientific American about 3. or 4 times, saying sex was on a spectrum.
Ok, cool.
Have existed in that amazingly vast, chaotic, open, non linear, long term stable system that is the Earths climate for 56 years. I can confirm I haven't noticed any unusual changes at all over that time. And I live on the coast.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/ocean-temperatures-earth-heat-increase-record
But don't let that bother you. With your head firmly in the sand dunes you won't see a thing.
I agree with Macro. Unlike coge, I look for signs. I like to sail on an inland lake. In summer 30 years ago we would often get 15+ knots of sea breeze come inland from the coast. Now we have a maritime heat wave: the sea water around NZ is at record warmth. With less temperature differential, we now get only a mild sea breeze, usually later in the day. OK coge?
Sorry, I didn't know that. But I wasn't denying climate change.
denial includes denial that humans are causing it.
No, it doesn't. What it includes is two theories about climate change if you believe the climate is changing. You have made your mind up on vacillating evidence. I also have made my mind up on vacillating evidence. The science is not proven in my opinion. When it is I will be more than happy to admit I'm wrong….will you ? I find it a worry that there is no middle ground with many on this blog. Even though I have conceded points to the Greens in my original post, that's not good enough. That attitude is fine on a blog. But that attitude in society is a real problem…as is well documented at the moment. It's also why I want the Greens to be nowhere near the true levers of power.
The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.
just pointing out where the boundaries are for commenting under my posts.
I also consider ‘it’s too late’ and ‘there’s nothing we can do’ to be a form of denial and have a limited tolerance for that.
''The precautionary principle says it doesn't matter who is willing to admit they are wrong. Compare the damage done if you are right compared to if I am.''
There's a fair point there. One spin off from a CC precautionary principle as you put it, is a focus on environmental pollution and steps under way to curtail that problem worldwide. I don't know of any environmental pollution deniers.
The problem with the present situation is the indoctrination of bright young minds by a school system that at its higher levels will book no alternative views to accepted current thought on climate change.
Then we have the ''The New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme.' and carbon credits sinking good NZ farming land into pine trees. Just last night a news item showed a major East Coast pastural farm waiting for permission to be sold to overseas buyers. Probably for planting in pines.
You can blame National, Act, NZF and to an extent Labour for that. The Greens had a different plan, that would have integrated environmental protection and regeneration.
I do blame any political party that believes in man made climate change.
I use both/and logic to transcend a binary like that. For instance, we know that natural climate change happens and sufficient evidence exists to give us confidence that AGW is a happening thing.
I encountered both/and logic in electronic circuit design & applied maths (1968/9) but due to being a lateral thinker I noticed I could use it as an abstract metaphysical framing device. Works well as such & very useful in politics.
👍
But I wasn’t denying climate change.
Still waiting for your answer to my question what do YOU think is causing it, Blade?
''Sorry, Gezza. We have debated this issue ( not just you) many times before on different blogs. It just becomes a post/link feast of differing supposed official views.''
See Drowsy M. Kram's post above.
mod note for you Blade
Personally I think The Greens should take a play out of Winstons playbook (only a small play) and stop saying they'll only go with Labour, stop letting Labour take them for granted.
I'm not saying go with National just to show Labour up but make Labour come to the table and offer them good reasons to go with Labour
At the moment The Greens are Labours doormat or maybe a better analogy would be The Greens are the faithful stay at home girlfriend that doesn't even get a bunch of flowers every now and then and Labour is the philandering boyfriend that goes around trying to woo other parties (Winston) and when all else fails for Labour they can slink off back to The Greens who'll welcome them back with open…arms, every time.
Basically The Greens should know their true worth and play a little hard to get sometimes
Of course if National were to offer enough concessions then The Greens could use that to leverage more gains from Labour…
this is a good argument, apart from the the idea of forming government with National 😉
Yes. My argument is that their position should be 'cross benches or coalition, the choice is ours'. That's where the leverage is now.
It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.
'It's never going to be with National, because the Greens won't support formation of a National government. The GP suggesting they might would be lying.'
I'm not saying they should, could or would go with National but by taking it off the table without knowing what National would offer simply devalues
The Greens own worth and if the next National government gets another three terms then thats 9 years without Green policy
How well has this Labour government done on child poverty, on housing, on the environment yet The Greens are not even willing to listen to any offer that National makes in the future…
"Don't put passion before principle. Even if (you) win, you lose."
The Greens should try to "play" the big parties?
Coquettishly fluttering their eyelashes at National, to make Labour jealous in the hope they'll shower them with gifts and enticements?
A bit transparent though, isn't it?
Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.
Better to accept the lop-sidedness of politics, hold fast to the best position available and apply the squeeze to the inner-organs in order to extract the most juice available, whether the public can see it or not (mostly not, it seems, judging from comments here).
'A bit transparent though, isn't it?'
In politics the more transparency the better I'd have thought
'Green supporters like myself would cringe at the antics.'
I guess it comes down to what you consider more important I guess, pride or results.
Pride or cleaner rivers
Pride or increased funding for pest control
Etc etc
National for clean rivers!
That sort of thing?
Have the Nats fallen out with farmers?
I hadn't heard!
Missing the point Robert (deliberately so I'm thinking)
Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about
Remember Labour is not your friend, they will ditch you when it becomes politically expedient so use Labour (or National) when you can for the greater good of NZ
Or not.
"Go into talks with National, don't agree to anything but just talk, thereby gain greater concessions from Labour than you otherwise would get from Labour for the things you care about"
Seems VERY naive, Pucky!
National are hardly likely to want to "go into talks" with The Greens, in the knowledge that all that could result is The Greens getting more influence in a Labour-led government, than they would have if they didn't hold the talks with the Nats!
Or are you suggesting The Greens should trick National, mislead them into thinking they might coalesce with them, if the offers were good enough…
It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest 🙂
'It's that sort of underhand behaviour us Green supporters don't thrill to, I suggest'
Good luck playing second fiddle to Winston or the next political party that comes along and talks to both sides
Pucky, my 2c worth is that the only point in the Greens being prepared to hold coalition talks with National would be if National had a major shift in their (yet to be announced, under Luxon) policies that indicated a significant paradigm shift towards more social & environmental policies that the Greens might find a match to Labour’s, such that they had a REAL choice of influencing either Labour OR National even more towards policies that matched the issues the Greens campaign on.
I agree the Greens shouldn’t rule out a coalition with National on principle, but frankly I don’t see this paradigm shift happening with National. And absent that shift, I can’t see the point in the Greens going thru the motions only with National in the forlorn hope Labour might feel compelled to give them more. I don’t think Labour are that naïve.
Then they should resign themselves to always, and I mean always, getting less than they're worth and not even being in coalition government if Labour need votes elsewhere
Which I guess, in real terms, means the environment will always be worse off
I think I stated my point of view badly. I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.
But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.
It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.
If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.
'I think the Greens should drop their habitual statement of a refusal on principle to consider coalition talks with National.'
– Agreed 100%
'But they should ONLY actually go into coalition talks with National post-election if National are campaigning on some Green-friendly policies that indicate the Greens might have some realistic hope of gaining policy concessions from National on climate, social & environmental policies in line with the Greens strong policy positions on these issues.'
– Again agreed
'It’s up to National whether they indicate a willingness to meet the Greens halfway.'
– Slightly disagree, far too much of the tail wagging the dog goes on with MMP, imho, but certainly National should go in with good faith
'If National under Luxon shows no prior willingness to accommodate Green-friendly policies then Labour is NOT going to feel any pressure to concede more than they already have to the Greens – UNLESS they will be dependent on Green MP votes to form a government. Then, the Greens have leverage, obviously.'
– If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
If The Greens are willing to use that leverage
They’d be crazy NOT to in that situation, Pucky. They’d have 2 years to go to find a way to mollify irritated voters if some hard Green policies were implemented in the first year of a coalition or support agreement. NZ voters forget quickly. That’s what Winston Peters traded on so well for decades.
How would that work though? Because the Greens and everyone already know what National would offer, and the Greens have decided that there's nothing there for them. What you are suggesting is a major change in GP positioning from where it is now (National and Greens have no shared policy on which to cooperate) to one that is saying 'we will negotiate with National'.
Lol. The Greens worth is dependent upon not lying to the public and not supporting an anti-environment, anti-social justice government. If National have such shit green policies, that's on National and Nat voters, not the Greens.
Are you taking the piss? The Greens sit to the left of Labour. What could National possibly have to offer that would be of interest. Details please.
GP basic position is: don't compromise on values, be flexible on policy negotiations. That's principle.
if National were to offer enough concessions
The sky might fall. Can't have that! So you can see why they don't. In fact, their use of the precautionary principle has been exemplary: so far, not a single Nat leader has even offered a single concession!
Fear of flying. Need to remain a limpet & cling on to that rock! 🙄
I haven’t forgotten that James, when he became co-leader, responded to a critique along your lines by saying of the Nats “Well, if they send me a proposal, I’ll consider it.” The timid wee things weren’t brave enough to do so…
Blade @ 2.
Jesus, a climate denier still exists in the face of damning evidence across the globe. I thought they had gone into hiding with their tails between their legs. So they should.
Bullshit. Labour has frequently commended these farmers for the environmental work they are doing. I am not going to scrawl through hordes of items looking for them, but there is plenty of evidence that the Labour Govt. has acknowledged the contribution being made by farmers. Not all farmers mind…
We have a CC denier in the face of so much to the contrary who infers to being environmentally conscious. There's a name for such people but it monetarily escapes me.
Intelligent.
A person with oxymoron characteristics is more like it.
No, Contrarian would be the right word in your case.
An intelligent person would be able to clearly articulate WHY they consider that all the scientists who agree that the evidence is incontrovertible that AGWCC is actually happening are wrong – by stating what scientific evidence they are relying on is incorrect, and precisely why and how it is incorrect. Or at the very least be able to summarise their argument along those lines. Imo.
An unintelligent or lazy person would say that all those scientists are simply wrong, that they are captured by [insert political correctness, groupthink, govt funding, or whatever other criticism they currently favour], & should not be indoctrinating children, but not be able to back that statement up with a competing scientific explanation &/or links and/or their own favourite theory that explains why climate change is happening & they don’t dispute that.
Jmho The Greens shld have bailed out of the coalition when LINO ( Labour in name only) brought in social apartheid against the unvaxed. The evidence is the unvaxed are no danger to the nation's health and to coerce with mandates on pain of losing your livelihood and social exclusion is a crime against citizens and humanity.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Unfortunately it seems like you can't change pugnacious Rogue!
'pugnacious Rogue'
I like it
Many people I come across think the Greens are very well-intentioned but impractical. In particular their cycle lane emphasis for a region like Wellington. In the Hutt at great cost a cycle lane was put right through from the northern end into the city, and completed months ago. Rarely, very rarely, is a cyclist seen on it. And not just from my observation, but others as well. Given the rare usage it was a very expensive project.
However, the Hutt river trail which has been there for many years is well used, particularly at weekends.
As for Wellington – the narrow, hilly streets and the strong winds mean only a tiny number of cyclists will ever be brave enough to navigate the dangerous streets.
Wellington is not Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Now the talk is to get rid of cars in the central city and rely on a very unreliable bus system. So shoppers with their parcels, the elderly or those with a disability, young mums with a baby and toddler, business people, people going to dentist/doctor appointments, will be very inconvienced. The Green councillors need a reality check. Not everyone is able to walk one end of the city to the other if the bus is full, or fails to turn up (happens often).
What are the practical, real solutions for Wellington's situation? Talk has been going on for years and years.
Agreed.
Cycle lanes and rail trails are great, I've walked the Central Otago Rail Trail (well mostly) and plan on doing it again but practicalities must come into it
Personally I'd like to see councils and the government put on more free buses in and around city centres, have more routes, have more buses
Not because I like the idea of subsidies but its the only way more people will use the buses and then less people will need to take vehicles into the city if the buses are more convenient
(I personally don't go into the city much at all, try to avoid it as much as possible)
It's been bugging me – and the "It's Time' post is pretty clogged up, so I'll ask here –
Julian Richards described our healthcare system as "McDonald's Heathcare in several comments and when asked, said
I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
What's McDonald's about it? Is it:
– finding someone when you need them, saying "how can I help you?"
– the list of goods you can pick off a predefined menu?
– mass production churning out the same quality product to each outlet?
– the same service and menu for everyone regardless of ethnicity, sex, gender, age, occupation, income and location.
– that it's readily available everywhere?
– that it's bad for you in large doses?
or is that there's always someone asking "would you like fries with that?"
because sure as heck, there are no added extras in the public health system and I can't envisage any of the other comparisons working either.
Can anyone clarify for this unimaginative person?
Julian can't (or won't) even explain his own argument, so I'm not sure anyone else can either 😉
Your confusion is down to Julian's obfuscation, miravox.
"McDonald's heathcare, that's a pretty clear conceptual metaphor" illustrates his method of "debate" where he sweeps the table clean of crockery and cutlery, then demands you reset it yourself, if you're not happy!
(How's that for a pretty clear conceptual metaphor?)
that's a fantastic and very clear conceptual metaphor Robert 😁
I can see that one quite clearly 🙂
I get that and it is a good description of the process, added to it he snaps out the comment in a muffled way, that you cannot quite hear or grasp, as he goes out the door never to be seen again to give guidance. So you reset and he again the comment is repeated and again you can't get the relevance, so you look carefully at the crockery and start again with what you think you heard. Again he returns and says that everything you have done proves that
a you didn't know what a table is, dishes are
b you lack sympathy or empathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
or
you have empathy or sympathy for what the dishes or table is going through and that is wrong
I'm guessing it was a reference to the "one size fits all" aspect of the so-called Public Health response.
In other words, it's using the "bog standard" McD model of 'food' (a McD is a McD is a McD and everyone gets the same McD no matter where in the world) as a contrast to the very basic medical premise that patients are individual people with individual and various medical needs – that's been cast aside in favour of the singular focus of "injections for all".
ah, I see. He's… not right (imo).
Our public health response to covid is the Swiss Cheese model
Moreover, the response has adapted to see individuals and groups. I am definitely one who was critical of the lack of bespoke vaccine roll-outs, in particular, for various groups (happy with the routine MIQ part of the response though – I don't think people should be treated differently in this instance. But that's the problem isn't it – different parts of the response require different strategies to make it work.
I guess it depends on how important you see vaccination in the response. I see it as critical, just the way I see treated drinking water as critical to avoiding cholera… maybe that's a McDonald's 3-waters response?
I just hope it's not a common phrasing (I'd not heard it before). I don't think it's helpful for anyone in healthcare debates.
Really? far be for me to query about the McDonalds menu. I my life I have only ever had two Burgers from McDonalds……one here in Wellington that was completely unremarkable but I did notice the pickle. Then after being hungry and a bit lost in a Mexican city, Guadalajara I think, I had the same at a McDonalds there and noticed that the pickle was completely different, the salad was different as well.
Public Health works on/with populations.
Injections have been recommended, They have not be forced on people no matter what kind of hyperbole you believe surrounds it.
There have been clinics for and attention paid to the immuno compromised. I am not sure what could be done about the nay sayers except to provide cool, calm and reliable information together with good access to facilities and let them make up their minds.
Btw -thanks for your response to my comment on the 'it's time' post – much appreciated
(I couldn't leave a response to you there for some reason)
The ice cream machine is always broken?
They have ice-cream?
(or not, it seems).
https://www.google.com/search?q=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+meme&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ690NZ690&oq=mcdonalds+ice+cream+machine+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i512l4j0i20i263i512j0i512l4.6606j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Nah – especially if narrowing down the metaphor to just the vaccine roll-out, which I suppose was the point (?)
The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response 😉
'The vaccine roll-out seems far more efficient than McDonald's broken ice-cream machine response'
Not a very high bar to clear…
If it is any consolation I don't get the McDonalds health care metaphor and it is it not clear or conceptual. That poster often has Farcebook like responses or reckons and rarely cites.
He has said (further up in the discussion you have linked to) that natural immunity is better, an anti vax stance that taken to its logical end would mean that many many more people would die in search of a natural immunity to Covid. Many more would recover with long term deficits – Long Covid. Speaking of the Alpha and Delta variants.
Here is a link to Johns Hopkins – a source I would trust https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know.
It was known early on that antibodies built up by the body after having a Covid infection were not long lasting, transitory, was one word I remember hearing. This then led to people being reinfected well after the 28 day period allowed for recovery from Covid19.
Thanks, Shanreagh – I too thought about this issue of "natural immunity" and considered the phenomenon in terms of the seasonal "flu". It may be, as weka indicates, that some "bolstering" of a person's immune system occurs with an initial dose of the flu, but in terms of the response to a new virus, I can't see that. Your body's "readiness" to fight infection will perhaps be enhanced but I'm not sure how. There will be people who can explain this, no doubt.
We don't develop a natural immunity to influenza and for those who have had it and had a bad time the stage is always ready for another infection. That is the reason for the flu injections that are tweaked each year to hopefully provide immunity.
I think the colds, influenza and covid have some of the same family. Omicron apparently has the covid virus plus it has wrapped in part of a cold virus. I thought initially that if they do find a vaccine for Omicron, and Pfizer says that would be worthwhile, we might be on the way to finding a vaccine to prevent the common cold. This might be useful for immuno compromised people or for those who have recurrent asthma or bronchitis brought on or exacerbated by the common cold.
I have heard said that getting Covid, and running the risk that you might die or get Long Covid and then being vaccinated as soon as you can after leaving hospital will provide a very strong immunity. Not sure if that is to variants and if it wanes after a year or six months.
Personally that is a bridge too fr for me to think that getting Covid has some sort of merit. Knowing my luck and medical history, I would be one who either died or got Long Covid. The vaccine is much less risky.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that some people appear to get a stronger immune system from having cold or flu where they have certain advantages (eg good health, the ability to take time off work to recover, good nutritional status and so on).
I don't believe this is true for covid at this time, it's novel to every human and we're still struggling to adapt.
Djokovich's double dose of covid seems to negate the natural immunity theory. Although obviously is subject to interpretation
Who knows with this person……..
Seems pretty fast and loose about many things connected with his testing, infections etc.
I don't think we can derive much learning about immunity or covid from that story.
No, he's not the sort of model for people with genuine concerns about the vaccine roll-out would want – and there are some. e.g. pharma excess profits (still), RATs fiasco in Aust, roll-out to poorer countries.
The Australian court of public opinion will be swift and harsh in their verdict, I expect, if he's found to be gaming the system.
Recent studies (and sorry, but I'm not in the space to hunt through the comments to find previously provided links atm) show that whereas infection with Omicron confers immunity to Delta, infection with Delta does not confer immunity to Omicron.
What I think we'd all agree on, is that if the doctor offered us the flu jab that was distributed to offer protection for the 2019 flu season for the 2022 flu season, we'd look at them sideways.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic. It's not that there is none, it's that some people are arguing that it's a replacement for vaccination or other measures. It's not. We need all the tools.
the point is that none of the protection gained from previous infection lasts or can be relied upon during an pandemic
We don't know how long it lasts – but people absolutely do have immunity conferred by previous infection. The notion that a vaccine targeting only one receptor of a virus might be more effective than naturally acquired immunity that targets a broad range of receptors is….odd.
Protection from m-RNA vaccines wanes drastically over weeks to months, whereas natural immunity persists beyond the useful "shelf life" of the vaccines we're deploying.
So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)
"So far, the only exception on natural immunity would appear to be that none is conferred by Delta for Omicron (but Omicron infection protects against Delta infection)"
Isn't that the whole point of the boosters?
If though, the boosters contain the exact-same formula the previous Pfizer vaccination contained, I'd be siding with Bill in asking wtf 🙂
Do they?
Are they up-grades?
They are exactly the same. And Pfizer isn't expressing much confidence in their drug any more.
two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant
It might still lessen severity of illness, but given Omicron appears to present as a common cold in most….
Hmmmm….
Official roll-back of the "fear porn"…
https://twitter.com/cwt_news/status/1480309340447903744?s=20
Further information
Nice clarification. Wonder if the overall co-morbidity of people classified as "covid death", (ie both vaxxed and unvaxxed) reportedly over 90% with an average of four co-morbidities , stands?
Pretty damned broad list, from Candidiasis of vulva and vagina to Victim of lightning, so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
Conditions contributing to deaths involving COVID-19, by age group, United States. Week ending 2/1/2020 to 12/5/2020.
Data as of 12/6/2020
Source: National Center for Health Statistics. National Vital Statistics System. Provisional data. 2020.
This table shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019
(COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on
average, there were 2.9 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and
by age groups. Values in the table represent number of deaths that mention the condition listed and 94% of deaths mention more than one
condition. As such, the rows should not be summed. Additional notes are listed at the end of the table.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf
so hardly surprising almost everybody died with a comorbidity
And that's the nub of it. Did they die with or because of a comorbidity, or did they die with or because of Covid infection?
At present and with very few 'news' reports offering up qualifiers, deaths 'with' and 'because of' are lumped in together and misleadingly presented as covid deaths.
Clunky language coming up – it makes quite a difference to an average person's perception if 800 000 covid deaths, becomes 800 000 deaths, a large number of which were among people generally suffering from comorbidities where tests revealed that covid was present.
If they didn't die of covid, then where are all the extra dead people coming from?
No idea what you mean, but re that video, it's been snipped to manipulate.
Here are the longer versions of the interview,
https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1480710199203844098
I don't have time to pick apart the tweet you posted, other than to say fact checking this took me less then five minutes.
Here's a fact check post,
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/walensky-covid-comorbidities
My view is the biggest co morbidity that there is is not having had the vaccination.
When I read about people dying of Covid that is the first query I have.
I realise we are going to have breakthroughs to vaccinated people. .
good point.
Bingo!
From StatsChat
https://www.statschat.org.nz/2022/01/11/why-screening-is-hard/
The Covid example of the prevention paradox is the recent and controversial CDC announcement that most (vaccinated) people who get seriously ill from Covid have co-morbidities. On top of the issue of whether that’s actually a cause for rejoicing, there’s the problem that the majority [of] people who don’t get seriously ill from Covid also have co-morbidities.
My thoughts exactly!
Why did you present this version Bill, and not the actual real version that Weka has found?
Pop culture round up
Cobra Kai is quite possibly the best thing on TV today
The first season is, possibly, the best, second and third season were ok but the fourth season is, probably, the best of the lot.
If you ever wondered what happened to Johnny Lawrence afterwards this is the show for you, want to see older characters treated with respect, dignity yet not put on a pedestal then this is for you, want to see a diverse, respectful yet non-pc show then this for you
The main characters (Johnny and Daniel) are sort of where you expect them to be. Johnny lives like the 80s never ended and Daniel is successful yet both have growing to do and its a joy to see it happen (albeit rather quickly as its a tv show)
The kids in the show are probably the weakest part of the show, way 2 and 3 are ok, but in season 4 everything ramps up and even the kids (especially the new kid) are much more interesting
No one is wholly good, no one is wholly bad (or are they…) everyone is flawed and things are seen from different viewpoints
This show is what happens when people who care about the characters (and are talented) are allowed to do their thing.
It sails close to, but never into, parody and is serious enough that you get invested but also funny enough to keep you entertained.
Eagle Fang for life!
It's on my list, lol
Saw the latest ghostbusters recently. Better storytelling, character arcs, and connection to the originals than the previous version, fair call. But a bit too "plucky children save the world" for my taste.
It was nice seeing an old-school deeply-constructed movie, though, rather than the standard superhero plotline (ordinary life, powers discovered/team assembled, minor defeat, lighthearted successes as team gels, major crisis, obstacle overcome, characters still the same so you can continue the franchise with little risk).
Also saw Dune: fecking awesome.
You'll like Cobra Kai, especially season 4
Ghostbusters: Afterlife had some massive plot holes but they treated the characters with respect and gave the fans what they wanted
Also compare the treatment of Luke in Disney Star wars to Egon in afterlife to see about how legacy characters should be treated
I will say McKenna Grace did a really good job and any more Ghostbusters movies with her in it would be well received
Thanks to Covid a large number of movies have been delayed so we're seeing them now, the M-She-U, James 'Boring' Bond, Disney/Marvel TV series etc so I think we're getting the tail end of a bunch of movies that wouldn't be made today
Movies where woke/intersectional/whatever is decided before an actual storyline.
The last three marvel movies made less than the latest Spiderman movie, West Side Story boomed, the 355 bombed
Theres also been a number of well received movies and tv series that are now showing the studio execs (and shareholders) that listening to twitter and shitting on fans is a sure way to lose money
So I'm picking that the quality of movies will slowly, but surely, pick up…hopefully
I still disagree on the woke thing – I think it's more that the type of movies became so expensive their funders became risk-averse, going for simple stories if there were other perceived differences from previous moneymakers.
GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.
'GB:Afterlife had half the budget of the 2016 movie, and made about the same on the opening weekend.'
Any other differences between the two movies you could think of?
Ok then what about Terminator: Dumb Fate where they kill of John Connor (thus making 1 and 2 pointless), ignore the third movie and have women replace the mens roles and don't try to tell me it wasn't deliberate:
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/tim-miller-terminator-dark-fate-scares-internet-trolls-1202156922/
and it bombed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator:_Dark_Fate
Woke/Intersectional/whatever you call it is bad for movies.
What other examples do you want,?
Charlies Angels: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/elizabeth-banks-faces-backlash-charlies-angels-interview/
In an interview last week, she stated that “if this movie doesn’t make money it reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies,”
Bombed
Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn)
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/birds-of-prey-harley-quinn-less-male-gaze-margot-robbie-1202148124/
“Yeah, it’s definitely less male gaze–y,” Robbie added.
also less box office-y and…bombed
Captain Marvel 2019
Not a bomb thanks to being in between Infinity War and End Game but how well was it received, well thanks to Brie Larson and her views the sequel is, at this time anyway, going to be The Marvels
You may not see it but its there, its movies designed to be popular with Twitter and its not working, people are beginning to see and beginning to vote with their wallets
Thank goodness
many of those films I haven't seen.
But the point is that I'm not sure GB:afterlife wouldn't have been dumbed down a bit if it cost twice as much to make.
Trust me on this and don't watch them, they're not even worth pirating because you won't get your time back
I think its also a case of the cheaper the budget the less likely you'll get studio interference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(2019_film)
As a prime example
Shame the joker was a bunch of crap. Pretty much every decent scene or even shot was
ripped off from"an homage to" some other movie.But the best story I heard about cheapness avoiding studio interference was Robert Altman's MAS*H, making a an anti-Vietnam "Korean War" movie in the early 1970s. Turn it in on time and under budget, get away with minimal notes, lol
I liked the scene where he shot Robert De Niro…or did he
It looked very familiar from somewhere
Quite similar to Frank Millers The Dark Knight Returns I thought
Never read it – closest I got was the Killing Joke.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I've seen that talk show shooting thing on film before. Want to say Network, but that scene had a different vibe. Damned sure I've seen it somewhere, though.
But it's largely a pastiche of sequences from other movies – Taxi Driver (you talking to me), The Brave One (subway scene), Fight Club (the "can I be trusted" unreliable memory gambit), even a quick shot from (I think) Saving Private Ryan (but the composition was similar to Shane, too – low defenceless on left, high and armed on right, quiet pause, shot). It's well done, but none of it is particularly new.
Although the social awkwardness of the little guy having to ask Fleck to open the door right after Fleck killed his friend was pretty good.
You should read it as its very good however I will say the artwork isn't quite to my taste
Prob should be called cliche kai and its less cringworthy if its treated as though it is parody in my view pr still would agree it has some redeeming features and does provide a few laughs .Cant imagine how someone could stand to watch it on tv with ads i sure couldnt .
Ads would certainly kill it
“An Otorohanga father who sparked a wide-scale search after he went missing with his three young children near Marokopa failed to show up to his first court appearance today and a warrant has been issued for his arrest.
Thomas Phillips, 34, was charged with wasteful deployment of police resources following the 17-day search in September last year. Phillips, and his three young children, Jayda Jin, 8, Maverick Callum-Phillips, 6, and Ember Phillips, 5, went missing on September 11.
After an extensive search and rescue effort by a number of emergency services, the local community and iwi, Phillips and his children turned up at his parents’ home on September 28. They had been staying in a tent in dense bush, his family said.
…
His lawyer, Garth O’Brien, appeared via audio visual link informing the judge that he hadn’t heard from his client since first informing him of the court date, the Herald understands.
He also asked to excuse himself from representing Phillips. A warrant was issued for Phillips’ arrest.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/marokopa-mystery-father-tom-phillips-charged-with-wasting-police-resources-fails-to-show-at-court/AQEB7QJQDRLFRHJXTQ2UJC6GIM/
… … … …
This is now getting pretty odd. Forgetfulness, or avoidance? One wonders if Mr Phillips might be in need of psychiatric or psychological help.
Those poor kids…
in need of psychiatric or psychological help
I suspected that after his first escapade. So he's gone bush again, looks like. Wonder how stocked-up he's made his hidey hole. Presuming he's on his own this time, wonder if he's got a gun – maybe wearing a MAGA hat…
“Northland police are continuing to investigate a threat against Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern delivered to letterboxes around Kerikeri. The handwritten flier was delivered to an unknown number of homes, including in the area around Waipapa Rd, last month.
The message, which managed to spell the Prime Minister’s name wrong, started with: ”Very soon a group of us are going to eradicate Jacinda Adern (sic) from this Earth plain for good”.
It went on to claim Ardern was killing people and removing their means to live a fair and happy life. It was the second such message delivered in the Waipapa Rd area.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-investigating-threat-against-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-delivered-to-kerikeri-homes/5P4GZIN3GGVF25FYIH3MCHAXPQ/
… … … … …
Suspect they meant Earth plane. A hand-written flyer? Most likely an ill-educated nutter. But still, that’s a bit of a worry. Hope the police find this character soonish.
Hillbillies in the Bay of Islands?? Has Kerikeri really drifted that far down-market?
🤔
having seen the letter on stuff-stuffall(herald) it would appear to be written by somebody with good handwriting skills, used to writing out notices for others to easily read (and obey?). not an illeducated nutter ,but a well educated nutter . not a hillbilly (have you seen hillbillys signs and notices?. a handwriting expert would immediatley say, a well educated white person, educated before the age of spell-check , and text-mispelling, used to writing out notices in large print for others to read,,from around kerikeri, hmm heres a wild stab in the brai, a middle aged white sth african male who works in,or manages an orchard.??? or it could be a disaffected ????
This earth plain?
when english might be your second language?
Can't spell meets new-age claptrap, I reckon.
American Shane Chafin got to Kawakawa to demonstrate his particular brand of stupid in his heckling of Jacinda Ardern and there are rabid anti-vaxx pockets and flourishing ignorance through Northland.
Kerikeri is no exception,.
This is very disturbing, and sadly not new. There have been numerous threats of this nature towards the PM and her family. (And not only Jacinda – you might recall the court case recently of a man found guilty of threatening Simon Bridges and his family).
Everyone has a responsibility to lower the temperature as debate becomes more and more nasty, even dangerous (and that includes The Standard). Crazy conspiracy theories lead to violence: if you believe the PM is a "dictator" then dictators must be overthrown, right? So for god's sake – for all our sakes – turn it down.
The NZ Herald comments are behind the paywall, so here is a selection for you all. These are all verbatim comments, and it shows how bad things have become …
Looks to me like the Government spin department opening their account for the year.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for her, concerned for her?
What a nonsense. The alarmist spin is back in overdrive.
(etc)
Fortunately, they are in the minority, but remember – these are the ones that got published. Imagine the ones that didn't.
Bear in mind the bullying, harassment, intimidation, threats of violence, the lies and all round nastiness is coming from the minority side of the debate. The majority have shown remarkable patience and control, but we have a right – even a duty – to call the minority out on their transgressions and crackpot theories.
Care to give us a profile of the offender? I would but I'd probably be banned. You bet it's a worry. So many acts of violence can come out of left field.
I'd rather leave that to the police because I have no idea. Not enough information for me to make an educated guess. The fuzz may know more from their enquiries.
Possibly someone with an alternative New Age outlook from the misuse of "earth plain" for earthly plane, but who knows – that could just be a ruse? It could be anyone – smart or stupid – at this point.
Random use of capitalization suggests a flakey new-ager. Not younger generation – they all seem allergic to capital letters. But new-agers aren't into violence so someone more fringe than that I reckon.
'' She is killing our people.'' '' Our means to live'' Business owner? A Maori?
They can spell 'Eradicate''. They know what that word means, but they cannot spell ''Plane'' in the right context?
The a in ''happy'' is suss.
The h is suss.
Seems to me an attempt to disguise handwriting. What the writer doesn't know is that can never be done 100% successfully.
Felt pen and I assume thick paper, may hint at craft use, or a business back room?
If the ivermectin doesn't work, the FLCCC, 'Murica's front line covid-19 critical care alliance quacks, have a few suggestions.
https://twitter.com/twinkbride/status/1480205837721391112
Tuesday the 11th
“Where the Omicron surge has begun, the priority should be to avoid and reduce harm among the vulnerable, and minimise disruption to health systems and essential services,” Kluge [ WHO Regional Director for Europe] said. “This means prioritising vulnerable people for primary course and booster doses, advising them to avoid closed, crowded spaces, and offering the possibility to work remotely wherever possible until the infection surge passes.”
Two hours ago
the WHO Technical Advisory Group on Covid-19 Vaccine Composition (TAG-Co-VAC) said: "A vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable."
So…one booster good, two booster bad? Booster no good? Primary injection good, booster no good? Arse? Elbow? Why is the NZ government about to set 5 year olds and above off on an unsustainable trajectory of injections that were developed for a virus "as was" in 2019 and about which Pfizer says – that two doses of BNT162b2 may not be sufficient to protect against infection with the Omicron variant?
I guess it must be for the greater good. Or something or other.
Pfizer announced about 24 hours ago they will have a vaccine for the Omicron variant available by March of this year.
It probably means the other Covid vaccine producers will have one for Omicron available around the same time.
Surely, the hope is that by March, the fast moving Omicron has swept through and left immunity in its wake. I believe the claim is that they will have developed an Omicron specific vaccine by March, not that it'll be available by March.
Anyway. Why is NZ about to embark on this programme that will inject, basically, a defunct medicine into children over 5 years old?
Putting all other considerations aside for the moment, wouldn't a more sensible route on any "one size fits all vaccine" strategy, be to hold off injecting children who face almost no risk from Covid until a vaccine geared to offer protection to Omicron was actually available?
If not, why not?
Hope is a powerful thing. I sought out my Pfizer booster dose on 4 Jan. 2022, in the hope (and expectation) of being well (not perfectly; well) protected against Omicron when that variant spreads through Kiwis in the next few months.
To all who would rather roll the dice and put their faith in an under-educated or COVID-naive immune system, best of luck – a large proportion of you will be fine, just not as large as the proportion of those who opted for a Pfizer booster.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers [Vaccination status of total cases & hospitalisations in Delta outbreak]
That sounds reasonable to me. I assumed the booster would be an up-graded version, tailored to the incoming iteration of the virus. There is, I suppose, room to explore the reason for using the "base" vaccine again, but I've not read that explanation – can anyone provide it? Thanks.
Song for dennis since he gave us an interesting conversation the other night
Or
thanks, I remember when that album arrived in '72, folks around me playing it
paradoxical song eh? does seem to evoke depths of human nature & mass psychology
Yeah gets to me ,mans arrogance always to the fore ,you could feel the affrontery when you brought up that genesis stuff the other night ,you could have mentioned the condemning of women to an eternity of pain in childbirth also another very strange construct .