Open Mike 12/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 12th, 2018 - 145 comments
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145 comments on “Open Mike 12/04/2018 ”

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  1. patricia bremner 1
    12 April 2018 at 6:21 am

    Jacinda to keep her promise along with James and Shane on oil. …a start to true transition.

    • Cinny 1.1
      12 April 2018 at 7:29 am

      It’s such good news Patricia, just told the girls and they are delighted. Another step into the future by our new govenment, yays !!!

    • Carolyn_Nth 1.2
      12 April 2018 at 7:33 am

      It’s a start – RNZ reports:

      Ms Woods said the decision would not affect the 22 active offshore licences, which cover roughly 100,000 sqkm of ocean, with the last one to finish in 2030.

      “In each of the last two years only one permit has been granted for offshore oil and gas exploration,” she said.

      “This decision does not affect current reserves or the potential finds from current exploration permits. As the industry itself admits, there is good potential for more to be found.”

      So, it’s not really taking on big oil in the near future.

      And halting oil exploration on land is still being negotiated.

      • mauī 1.2.1
        12 April 2018 at 8:00 am

        I just caught Megan Woods explaining it on RNZ and she’s very impressive I have to say.

        • Carolyn_Nth 1.2.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 8:11 am

          I haven’t heard that interview, but Woods is generally very impressive.

          Bernard Hickey calls Ardern’s decision, a first step and a compromise. And reading down the article, it looks like the compromise was with Shane Jones and NZF.

          Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has taken the Government’s first major step to address climate change, announcing there will be no more offshore oil and gas exploration permits granted. But the move is a compromise
          …
          Regional Development Minister Shane Jones said New Zealand First’s support for the plan was based on protecting existing permit holders with rights to explore as far out as 2046, and on any measures not affecting existing jobs in Taranaki.

          “With ten years’ worth of natural gas consented, plus potentially billions of dollars of natural gas reserves permitted but yet to be consented, we can ensure economic returns and security of supply,” Jones said.

        • cleangreen 1.2.1.2
          12 April 2018 at 10:25 am

          maui,

          Megan Woods is a damn good politician.

          I like her very much; – as she is what we needed in all our senior MP’s as one who is not afraid to stand up to criticism and stay the course on policy as national did so should labour.

          I am not impressed with the Broadcasting minister though as Clare Cullan appears as spineless and ineffectual.

          Curran alow this crap, impartial her RNZ says they are so why can’t we get a reporter to cover our regional issues like the sestering sore on Labour’s back as many are broken hearted labour are ot moving on saving the Gisborne nrail serive washed out on 1km because in 2012 National stole the money and staff from the line maintainence crews so blocked drains washed out some rail during heavy rain.;

          “Radio New Zealand News are vital elements in our programming, providing impartial news and information to New Zealanders every day

          http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1804/S00226/storm-aftermath-what-you-need-to-know.htm

          RNZ

          New Zealand’s public broadcaster, providing comprehensive NZ news and current affairs, specialist audio features and documentaries.
          Radio New Zealand is a Crown entity established under the Radio New Zealand Act 1995. Radio New Zealand News are vital elements in our programming, providing impartial news and information to New Zealanders every day. Radio New Zealand (RNZ) provides listeners with exciting and independent radio programmes in accordance with the Radio New Zealand Charter.
          Contact RNZ
          • Website – http://www.radionz.co.nz

          • red-blooded 1.2.1.2.1
            12 April 2018 at 12:07 pm

            No broadcasting minister gets to tell RNZ or TVNZ what stories they should cover. That would be an appalling abuse of power. you wouldn’t support it if you had found that a National minister had been doing that, so why do you expect it of Curran?

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2
        12 April 2018 at 8:13 am

        There certainly was a ‘See how we’re not scaring the horses…’ tone.

        Whew! I thought for a fleeting nano second they were going to be bold.

        • Pat 1.2.2.1
          12 April 2018 at 8:15 am

          theres bold and then theres foolhardy

          • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 8:27 am

            For the life of me I simply can’t get my head around the number of ‘lefties’ who are comfortable sitting on the fence.

            You’d have to be living on a different planet not to see that it is bold that is needed…NOW.

            Even if bold costs them the next election, the wheels of change would already be turning.

            Imagine, telling the industry you have ten years from now to wind it up…AND 25 percent of your profits will be levied to help fund development of non fossil fuel technology.

            • Pat 1.2.2.1.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 8:37 am

              its not sitting on the fence…its compassionate realism.

              They have put the industry on notice AND provided those that rely on its product an opportunity to transition away from that product.

              Close it down today (or even in a very tight timeframe) and what are you going to do about all those that need gas (and reasonably affordable at that) for such life basics as heating and cooking…not to mention the beneficial industries?

              What is so difficult to understand about time?…there is no magic wand.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                12 April 2018 at 8:49 am

                There are technologies in the pipeline, so to speak, that with financial support from a truly committed government could be brought on line within a much tighter timeframe than the current incumbents propose.

                OTOH…there is always the very possible option that the incineration of of those old fashioned book thingies could provide an interim solution.

                🤧

                • Pat …
                  12 April 2018 at 8:56 am

                  Changing the whole basis of our life is going to be difficult enough over 30 years (for that is what fossil fuels have become)….trying to achieve it in significantly less will guarantee failure.

                  • Rosemary McDonald …
                    12 April 2018 at 9:18 am

                    What we appear to lack is true aspiration. If Iceland can be 89 percent independent of fossil fuels now…?

                    Kiwis used to be brave innovators…I guess over three decades of committed neo liberal governments have squashed that.

                    • Pat …
                      12 April 2018 at 9:20 am

                      Lets wait and see what the Climate Commission comes up with before we judge how bold and aspirational they are….this is a good start.

                    • mikes …
                      13 April 2018 at 2:48 am

                      Do you mean the fact that Iceland’s primary energy supply is 89% from renewable sources?

                      I’m not sure what we’re at now but NZ was 81% in 2015 with a goal of 90% by 2025 so we’re actually pretty close to Iceland in that respect

                • mikes …
                  13 April 2018 at 1:34 am

                  “There are technologies in the pipeline, so to speak,…”

                  Such as?

                  “…that with financial support from a truly committed government…”

                  How much financial support? How many hundreds of billions are these ‘pipeline technologies’ going to cost already struggling taxpayers to implement?

                  When there are potentially such massive downstream affects you can’t just flick a switch, that could be catastrophic (not just in a computer model but really truly)

                  You need a healthy dose of realism..

            • Wayne 1.2.2.1.1.2
              12 April 2018 at 9:39 am

              Rosemary
              By definition if it cost them the next election, it would all be reversed. A new government after just one term would have been specifically voted in to reverse what the previous government had done.

              • cleangreen …
                12 April 2018 at 10:31 am

                Wayne Mapp,

                Are you ready for the enquiry into your mob’s handling of the NZDF “Burnham debacle”?

          • cleangreen 1.2.2.1.2
            12 April 2018 at 10:27 am

            Pat = pours cold water on a hot politician.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2.3
        12 April 2018 at 9:07 am

        That’s good because NZ can up the royalties and benefit from the massive supply shortfall coming up in the next couple of years.

    • Chuck 1.3
      12 April 2018 at 9:40 am

      It’s meaningless other than to destroy jobs and make NZ dependant on importing future oil and gas. NZ will not use one less liter of oil or m3 of gas no matter if it is locally produced or imported.

      Supply and demand. Until there are viable alternatives for everyday use supply and demand rules.

      • bwaghorn 1.3.1
        12 April 2018 at 11:32 am

        Oh come on think positive be a good little capitalist entrepreneur and go seize the opportunity to ride the new tech wave that will swing into action now a real government has signalled were the future lies

        • Draco T Bastard 1.3.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 1:28 pm

          Capitalists don’t do innovation as it gets in the way of their present profits. In fact, they actively prevent innovation so as to protect those profits – as we see with the oil industry whinging now.

  2. WILD KATIPO 2
    12 April 2018 at 6:22 am

    Another day, another opportunity to bash a far right wing nut jobber over the head with facts and derision.

    Neo liberals… we eat ’em for breakfast !

    BATTER UP !!!

    Ahhhh… isn’t life just sweet.

    I hope your power is back on. You need it for the computers sake… although Martyn Bradbury over at the Daily Blog has an interesting perspective on ‘power cuts’ and the Metservice….

    Neoliberal apologists rush to defend weak response to Auckland …
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/…/neoliberal-apologists-rush-to-defend-weak-response-to-a…

    And then of course ,…. there is THIS :

    FINALLY: An investigation into NZ war crime allegations – The Daily Blog
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/…/finally-an-investigation-into-nz-war-crime-allegatio…

    And perhaps even more importantly ,…. THIS :

    Hit and Run inquiry decision welcomed – Nicky Hager « The Daily Blog
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/…/hit-and-run-inquiry-decision-welcomed-nicky-hage…

    Ahhhh the perilous lives of the extreme far right wing nut jobbers…. when the cover is finally lifted on their ‘activity’s ‘ …. not really a lot of room left to maneuver,…. is there ?…

  3. Ed 3
    12 April 2018 at 6:45 am

    Here is a welcome introduction of sanity from Craig Murray to counter the blizzard of propaganda being projected at you by the Guardian, the BBC, RNZ and the tabloid western corporate media.
    I recommend a daily dose of the medicine of Murray’s writing to ward off the symptoms of war fever.

    The lesson the neo-cons learnt from the Iraq war is not that it was disastrous. It was only disastrous for the dead and maimed Iraqis, our own dead and maimed servicemen, and those whose country was returned to medievalism. It was a great success for the neo-cons, they made loads of money on armaments and oil.

    The lesson the neo-cons learned was not to give the public in the West any time to mount and organise opposition. Hence the destruction of Libya was predicated on an entirely false “we have 48 hours to prevent the massacre of the population of Benghazi” narrative. Similarly this latest orchestrated “crisis” is being followed through into military action at a blistering pace, as the four horsemen sweep by, scything down reason and justice on the way.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/the-four-horsemen-gallop-by/

    And if one ex British ambassador does not carry enough weight for you, listen to Peter Ford, who was the British Ambassador in Syria. And try and listen to his words, unlike this fool from BBC Scotland……

    I love the parts when Ford challenges the interviewer to ‘please engage your brain‘ and says to him ‘even a child could see this‘, when the interviewer repeats the bias the BBC has been propagating.

    Peter Ford’s assessment is that he greatly fears this will take us to the edge of Armageddon. Everyone needs to take a deep breath beofre something terrible happens. He mentions that British soldiers are in Syria, a fact the UK government is keen to avoid.

    A voice of reason.

    • WILD KATIPO 3.1
      12 April 2018 at 6:58 am

      Mhmmm…. what a total piss off… far right wing nut jobber psychopaths… a dangerous vector akin to Prairy dogs in the USA bearing Yersinia Pestis… ie : the bacterium that caused the Bubonic Plague…

      Equally as insidious, equally as destructive socially , and ultimately ,…equally as deadly.

      We need,… to have a purge.

      • Cemetery Jones 3.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 9:50 am

        IMO we’re at the point where ‘Neocon’ is no longer exclusively something which denotes a right wing bent. Hillary and Bill Clinton are neocons. Tony and Cherie Blair are neocons. Most of Jeremy Corbyn’s opponents in the Labour party are neocons. While ‘neoconservative’ may have spoken to the original observation of the behavioural patterns of the GW Bush administration, we’ve now had a longer arc of time to see the trends and tropes of this approach to politics, and I’d argue that it can be characterised as an overall attitude to global power and the validity of enfranchised democracy, rather than an expression of modernist political alignment.

        • cleangreen 3.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 10:55 am

          Cemetery Jones,

          “we’re at the point where ‘Neocon’ is no longer exclusively something which denotes a right wing bent. Hillary and Bill Clinton are neocons. Tony and Cherie Blair are neocons. Most of Jeremy Corbyn’s opponents in the Labour party are neocons”

          So do you support right wing politics? Or is this just sour grapes now you see the left using the same “effective” policies to drive controversial agenda’s.

          “When in Rome” do what they do syndrome eh?

          • Cemetery Jones 3.1.1.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 11:18 am

            I’m on the left, which is why I can’t support the likes of the Clintons and the Blairs. I consider their views on economic policy and geopolitics for all practical purposes indistinguishable from that of the Bush war cabinet. Which is probably why they’ve made such a cosy living since politics doing paid gigs on the corporate speaking circuit and using their profiles to peddle access and messaging favourable to the same arms, banking, and energy industry interests as Bush neocons. It would appear to me it is they, rather than I, who have found themselves in Rome – and feathered their nests with the loot.

            • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 11:46 am

              100% Cemetery jones,

              We think the exact same there, so is it that the left are just copying the right wing policies where they had success?

              • Cemetery Jones …
                12 April 2018 at 11:58 am

                I think much of it is down to the individual. Some seem to think it was success which enabled the Blairs and Clintons etc. to ‘sell out’ to power. Once in the orbit and proximity, they were won over. By contrast, I think their pursuit of power in the first place was precisely where we can find the truth of the type of people they are. They wanted it this way, and they worked to make it happen for themselves.

                Take for instance Bill Clinton’s college years, where he was mentored by professor Carroll Quigley. Quigley’s memoirs mention specifically warning his then-student about the kind of people and interests at the top of US politics and how carefully he would need to outwit them. Instead, by the time he was in the White House, Bill had been courting them for quite some time and made handsome money afterwards – very obviously as the kickback for services rendered. Just like their Foundation was an influence peddling service.

                Left politics was in a bad place by the end of the 80s. Any win would be a win, and they got Trojan horsed by people who promised at last some potential electability.

            • mikes 3.1.1.1.1.2
              13 April 2018 at 3:09 am

              I would lump Obama in there too. Since the 80’s, the over-arching agenda of the ‘leaders’ of western democracies has been the same regardless of whether office is held by left / right, red / blue, liberal / conservative, etc. Which is why it is far from being some nutty conspiracy theory to suggest there is some form of shadow global government (for lack of a better description) which has actually been setting the global agenda.

  4. Rosemary McDonald 4
    12 April 2018 at 6:53 am

    So. I am limited with respect to data use so watching JC’s (oh, so ironic) valedictory speech yesterday afternoon is out of the question.

    In a just and honest world, every member of the government with a conscience would have walked out and left him speaking to his cronies.

    But I’m guessing they all sat and listened respectfully and guffawed in all the right places and paid a fellow politician the respect he (and of course themselves) deserve.

    Hypocrites.

    • WILD KATIPO 4.1
      12 April 2018 at 7:16 am

      Rest assured , that as scumbags age and develop arthritis and become wizened and wrinkled, crinkled and stooped over because of age and for all the shitty things they’ve done , that there is another waiting for them when their bodies finally quit and they leave this life.

      And don’t believe for a minute that they can con their way out of that perilous moment.

      You pride yourself in not having a conscience ?

      You fool.

      Your judgement awaits.

  5. Cinny 5
    12 April 2018 at 7:36 am

    Jack Tame interviewing mark mitchell this morning about Operation Burnham is a must watch. Well done Jack, you’ve done your research, excellent interview.

    Will post a link when I find one.

    • cleangreen 5.1
      12 April 2018 at 11:02 am

      Cinny,

      Glad to hear this was a good interview as i have been going off jack tame for awhile but this may get me back in support of him again.

    • patricia bremner 5.2
      12 April 2018 at 12:04 pm

      Cinny, Thank you. I just put to Google ” Jack Tame interviews Mitchell, ” and up it came. I watched and though the subject matter is heartbreaking, I found myself admiring Jack Tame’s persistent clarification of the changed stance regarding this, to the point I snorted!! (Very unladylike of me)

      Mitchell started out with his “speel”, but Jack reeled him in bit by bit, and he looked sick as he realised he had just been shown to be a fool who hadn’t done his homework and was defending an old response which was now out of date.
      Bring it on. Well done Jack Tame.

      • Cinny 5.2.1
        12 April 2018 at 12:13 pm

        Pat, you crack me up 🙂 Yay for Google. Was happy to see they posted the full interview and not just sound bites.

        If mark mitchell takes over post 2020 once simon loses and resigns, I think we can look forward to an addition three years of national in opposition.

  6. chris73 6
    12 April 2018 at 7:37 am

    Just want to say how much I enjoy reading the comments on The Standard, its a great start to the day 🙂

    • stunned mullet 6.1
      12 April 2018 at 7:49 am

      😆

    • Heather Grimwood 6.2
      12 April 2018 at 9:09 am

      Great start to my day too Chris73, to realise Jacinda and her Government have taken decisive measures re the oil /gas and Afghanistan situations.
      I rejoice.

    • cleangreen 6.3
      12 April 2018 at 11:11 am

      Thanks chris73.

      Chis said “Just want to say how much I enjoy reading the comments on The Standard, its a great start to the day”

      • Monty 6.3.1
        12 April 2018 at 3:00 pm

        I think you might find Chris73 was being a touch sarcastic.

        What makes it even better for Chris 73 is your taking credit for it by saying Thanks.

    • Muttonbird 7.1
      12 April 2018 at 7:59 am

      The industry asked for certainty.

      They got it!

      • Pat 7.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 8:23 am

        pretty much

      • James 7.1.2
        12 April 2018 at 9:02 am

        I’m pretty sure they will be certain that the next government will overturn it.

        • Muttonbird 7.1.2.1
          12 April 2018 at 9:09 am

          We’ll all be driving electric flying cars by then.

          • James 7.1.2.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 9:13 am

            Another fantasy there muttonbird.

            • Muttonbird 7.1.2.1.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 9:23 am

              Did you see Bridges yesterday in parliament? He’s terrible. Could be a long, long time in the cold for the Nats.

              • Cinny …
                12 April 2018 at 11:58 am

                For sures Muttonbird, and the kicker is it’s nothing new since Simon became leader. He was terrible in the house last week as well.

              • Monty …
                12 April 2018 at 3:09 pm

                Personally I think all sides are currently terrible in question time.

                Some exclusions from that would be David Parker, James Shaw, Tracey Martin.

          • AB 7.1.2.1.2
            12 April 2018 at 10:29 am

            Better than that Mutton – they will be CO2-eating electric flying cars. Gobbling vast amounts of CO2 as they fly around and converting it into banknotes. So no worries about finding new oil and burning it – just turn loose those flying cars – all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.

          • Enough is Enough 7.1.2.1.3
            12 April 2018 at 11:15 am

            And how are we going to get enough electricity to power our fleet of electric cars?

            How many wind farms will it take?

          • mikes 7.1.2.1.4
            13 April 2018 at 3:13 am

            Not if we’re all bankrupted first by trying to transition off fossil fuels in an unrealistic (flick a switch) timeframe

        • mary_a 7.1.2.2
          12 April 2018 at 6:23 pm

          James (7.1.2) … nah, I don’t think Labour will overturn it as next government!

    • Ad 7.2
      12 April 2018 at 8:30 am

      The big test is not simply to stop something – any fool with a pen can do that.

      The test is: do you take the people with you.

      This decision will mean Minister Jones needs to get to work with Minister Wood to form a transition plan that weans Taranaki off the oil and gas industry.

      After a century, this will be no small feat.

      Taranaki Mayor Holden – to whom Minister Wood was reasonably conciliatory this morning – is right to ask for a plan.

  8. savenz 8
    12 April 2018 at 9:11 am

    From Forest and Bird.

    Help: Auckland Council is proposing to remove rates relief on QEII covenanted land. This is nonsense. Private landowners who covenant their land do so to protect it against development. The majority of this land is native bush, precious wetland or has cultural significance. They also spend more of their own money to carry out pest control and restoration. We need to give them grants and rates remissions that help them, not make it harder for them. Use this link to tell Auckland Council you support rates remission on all covenanted land whether under QEII National Trust or on all private land with SEAs and notable native trees. Such endorsement of the property’s special character will encourage greater participation in pest management from private landowners. https://bit.ly/2EEy3WK SUBMISSIONS CLOSE ON FRIDAY 13 APRIL.

    • James 8.1
      12 April 2018 at 9:17 am

      I’m with you on this – that’s terrible.

      I know how much we spend on regen planting and weed / pest maintenance.

      Auckland council is desperate to claw money back for its train set spending.

      • savenz 8.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 9:29 am

        And billionaire boat races, and Westgate mall development projects.

        Someone practical and smart and independent needs to go through Auckland Council and work out where all the money is going, because somehow they seem to have got themselves spending money on non core self serving consultants such as expensive lawyers on the public teat encouraging fighting (and more fees for themselves of course) council with itself and it’s rate payers, dodgy roading contracts where they are digging up pavement curbs continually, endless expensive consultation processes when they don’t listen to anybody because some person at the beginning has already decided what they want… 1.35 billion dollars on Auckland transport when much of Auckland doesn’t even have any public transport and those that do cost megabucks and takes a good part of a day to get there, sewerage and diesel in the waterways while consenting more and more development that someone has to pay for, roads that are constantly being closed, detoured or repaired yet still they didn’t get the memo about all the trucks they seem to want to encourage continually. The list goes on.

        • james 8.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 9:39 am

          Yep Indeed – You can tell the mayor is a Labour man thru and thru.

          • savenz 8.1.1.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 9:45 am

            I’d say more of the Roger Douglas type myself aka an ACT man but he is not really the type to take the risk to switch from Labour unless there was a nice job waiting for him. Handy how the right wingers all put themselves in the ring for Mayor so that the right vote was split to aid his victory, than the actual ones running under the right flag.

          • savenz 8.1.1.1.2
            12 April 2018 at 9:50 am

            But I think important to keep politics out of it, and it’s everyone’s problem left or right if we are forced to pay more and more rates for less and less services because some officials and their offshoots are siphoning it off and making dumb decisions thinking someone else is going to solve/pay for it.

            If you live near Long Bay, think about the effects when all those tens of thousands of houses going up around there are lived in, where are the new transport, hospitals, schools and pollution measures at Long Bay?

            Also where are the high paid jobs for that matter?

            Who is going to pay for it and how long is it going to take?

            Already the Long Bay reserve has to be closed because the waste water is overloaded and dumping sewerage into the Beach with heavy rain.

            And nobody is kidding themselves that those houses will be affordable. They are spec houses.

            • james 8.1.1.1.2.1
              12 April 2018 at 9:53 am

              I used to live near Long Bay – sold up and moved as soon as the development started. Was fairly obvious what was going to happen.

              • savenz …
                12 April 2018 at 10:18 am

                Good move.

                But is that really a realistic solution, for Auckland residents to have to move away because some developer and Auckland council feel they could make a short term profit on housing and leave all the negative effects and costs to the people who live there?

            • red-blooded 8.1.1.1.2.2
              12 April 2018 at 12:18 pm

              Do I hear just a bit of nimbyism from you, savenz?

              Surely infrastructure like schools, road and waste treatment facilities don’t usually exist before and area is developed? Providing those is part of the process of development. Some costs (eg plumbing) fall to the developers, some (eg schools, waste treatment plants, roads) are provided by government and/or council. That’s what happened when your area was settled, and the ongoing costs associated with serviceing your area come from rates and taxes. It’ll be the same for new developments.

              I don’t know anything about the specific development you’re talking about, but i do know that your comments sound sort of familiar…

              • savenz …
                12 April 2018 at 12:37 pm

                Yep, nimbyism seems to have become the catch phrase for existing people pay for developers and big business because we are all told development is progress, more people are progress, unfortunately done badly a (such as being part of a low wage economy with then after effects like infrastructure lagging behind significantly and always ‘someone else’s problem) sadly all these things turn to poverty, pollution, congestion, poorer services and inequality which many people on both sides of the political divide do not define as progress.

                Do you have any idea how some one on the average wage of $20 p/h can afford 1.5 million with 4000 a year in rates for example, Redblooded?

                Should those already living there on $20p/h have to subsidise and not be able to use the beaches increasingly more and more due to pollution until maybe not at all like areas like Coxes Bay, for decades for the on stream pollution and eventually be forced to sell up and move out of the area?

                As we can all see, that does not really work as those Auckander’s seeking cheaper pastures move to say Tauranga, and then they force those poorer people out, etc etc…

                As you can hear from James who used to live there, the vote seems to be to leave early and flee the on stream mess and problems…

                The debate and democratic process is not there for what is going on because apparently you are a Nimby for bringing up anything against the master plan, for the master class.

    • Bearded Git 8.2
      12 April 2018 at 10:30 am

      QEII covenanted land does not permit public access unless specifically agreed to by the owner.

      There is a case for allowing less rates relief for QEII land where no public access rights have been offered, and here I mean bike/walking tracks created under a legally binding right of way.

      • savenz 8.2.1
        12 April 2018 at 10:42 am

        Often they are in isolated areas, when you look at what has happened with the spread of Kauri dieback in reserves, does everything have to be for people? Can we just have nature, for nature itself to preserve our native species and ecosystems. Those covented areas give oxygen and biodiversity – can that not be enough!

        • Bearded Git 8.2.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 12:02 pm

          Public access allows people to enjoy these areas. Why are you so negative about this?

          The Kauri die-back is another issue altogether. But that should not prevent public access to QEII areas being granted now and being used in the future if and when this issue recedes. (My guess, and it is a guess, is that restricting public access will do little to solve this problem).

          • savenz 8.2.1.1.1
            12 April 2018 at 12:40 pm

            I’m not negative against public access, but I don’t think that that is the only factor to consider withpieces of land that are biodiverse and in many cases they actively try to stop people in areas at risk to stop dogs./rats/cats/bacteria/ vehicles etc.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.3
      12 April 2018 at 2:09 pm

      Use this link to tell Auckland Council you support rates remission on all covenanted land whether under QEII National Trust or on all private land with SEAs and notable native trees.

      Except that I don’t. if those present private owners want it protected they can hand it over to the government with the proviso that it never be developed.

      • savenz 8.3.1
        12 April 2018 at 2:49 pm

        I’m not sure I trust government that much. Look at what they are doing on conservation land! Oil exploration, mining etc. Different government’s do different things. You might get people refusing to covenant at all.

        Not to mention members of public that donate to the councils and then what ever they gave somehow gets sold off and turned into something else. I seem to remember some person’s clock museum or something like that on a prime piece of land being sold off and the poor person’s prized memorabilia shifted off god know where. (Maybe burnt like the library books?) They clearly would not have donated if they knew what the council was going to do!

        • savenz 8.3.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 2:50 pm

          Remember the endangered native snails. Got frozen to death when they were put in ‘storage’ to make way for mining interests.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.2
          12 April 2018 at 5:04 pm

          Not to mention members of public that donate to the councils and then what ever they gave somehow gets sold off and turned into something else.

          That’s why it’s specifically given in perpetuity and with unbreakable agreements on it. We already have such as conservation land.

          I seem to remember some person’s clock museum or something like that on a prime piece of land being sold off and the poor person’s prized memorabilia shifted off god know where.

          If true then they obviously didn’t follow the correct law.

  9. savenz 9
    12 April 2018 at 9:41 am

    This consent alone somehow reminds me of the movie ‘The Hunger Games’.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/nor-west-news/99727284/Fears-a-child-will-be-hit-by-one-of-proposed-Auckland-sand-mines-100-000-trucks

    In the movie series the back drop is, the city management exploiting all the outskirting towns and people who are getting poorer, their land more destroyed and controlled while they send all the materials (wood, coal, sand, etc) into the city which is gleaming with new high rise developments and the super rich.

    • Cemetery Jones 9.1
      12 April 2018 at 10:09 am

      It reminds you of the Hunger Games? Weird. It reminds me of living in a first world country where there’s a hell of a lot of work to do. Like building all those houses and upgrading all that infrastructure we quite rightly criticized National for loafing about and ignoring for 9 years.

      I mean, these people hardly look poor – those look like lifestyle blocks. They’re talking about their concern that their horse riding will be affected. Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure the horses will prefer a ride around one of the many paddocks of these lifestyle blocks to being trotted up and down a gravel road.

      • savenz 9.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 10:23 am

        @Cemetery Jones
        I just hope you get your wish of your version of a 1st world country, with 60 truck and trailers going past you with sand for an ex Asbesto’s company on unsealed roads 6 days a week, for 35 years and from Kaukapakapa to Penrose. You to can enjoy a congested rural road, motorway and the chaos.

        Then put your hands in your pocket to pay for the 1.345 billion a year to Auckland Transport for ‘road maintenance’ . Of course that is before all the pollution, carbon issues, respiratory issues, safety issues and so forth. But hey, who cares about the kids! Should be at home on their computer games like the 1st world kids, rather than enjoying nature outdoors like rural scum bags and not clogging up the roads, like trucks and business ventures, who should have the priority over the rate payers enjoyment.

        Enjoyment whose got time for that, when there is a $ to made out of concreting up our city and send the profits to creative accountant@JohnKey’smates@exploit-first.com

        Also funny, I never see that version of NZ for tourism purposes… you know the 1st world concrete, truck version.

        • Cemetery Jones 9.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 11:11 am

          You seem to have confused me for someone who didn’t read the bit in the article where they listed widening and sealing the road as a priority, with pilot vehicles provided until this is done. Or perhaps you also confused me for someone who thinks the fact that they used to be an asbestos company is in any way relevant to the fact that modern construction doesn’t happen without aggregate, which is what they need this sand for. I mean it is an interesting fact, but has nothing to do with the ethics or purpose of what they’re doing right now.

          Perhaps in your mind there’s somewhere we can get the resources to build the housing an infrastructure we need where absolutely nobody will have to deal with the traffic. In mine, there’s at best minimal disruption to the least possible amount of people, which is what we’ve got here.

          But yeah, that’s right. Because there will be trucks on the gravel (until the sealing is completed) road, these kids are absolutely sunk for something to do outdoors. Never mind perhaps enjoying the paddocks and trees clearly visible on the map of these lifestyle blocks in the article. Oh no, oh no, they need the road. Riding their bikes and horses on the road is absolutely the only thing which can be done. And maybe it’s just me, but I’d imagine out there in the middle of nowhere it’d be pretty easy to see and hear a massive truck coming.

          If you’re going to strawman, at least make it something complicated to refute. Like, why would the city not be using concrete or cement? It’s a pretty vital construction element. What polemic are you trying to advance here? That somehow cities are evil? That somehow life unaffordable for many kiwis would be more affordable if they were scattered about the countryside instead of in suburbs with economic access to amenities, public transport, proximity to work, etc? How would it be more economically viable or environmentally preferable for everyone to be driving into the city from rural properties? Because that is the implied alternative to your polemic. Plus, we’re about to see the kick off of Kiwibuild construction – what’s that got to do with John Key’s creative accounting?

          As to tourism, I wasn’t personally aware that Kaukapakapa was on the to do list of most visitors to NZ, but either way the suggestion that our tourism will be affected by economic activity in Auckland’s hinterland seems a shallow one to argue even if we isolate it from the secondary context of the importance of being able to build stuff when we’re short of houses and in need of serious upgrades to hospitals, schools, waste water treatment, extra bus lanes, the CRL, and other things which this sand will be very useful for. Again, where else are you going to get it where *nobody* will have any inconvenience whatsoever? You don’t get to imply that anyone who isn’t to the environmental left of John Zerzan is some kind of neoliberal apologist without putting up some decent arguments first.

        • cleangreen 9.1.1.2
          12 April 2018 at 11:28 am

          saveNZ;

          So do I wish these National party sympathisers get our life ‘we have now in hell by hearing and smelling 25 000 truck trips passing’ his/hers home 24/7 each day that eventually gives him/her medical problems that will finally wake them up.

          • Cemetery Jones 9.1.1.2.1
            12 April 2018 at 11:37 am

            Oh, you’d like to strawman me as a Nat because things need to be built? You’re having a Turkish.

            • savenz 9.1.1.2.1.1
              12 April 2018 at 2:31 pm

              Yes, we have to build 1.5 million dollar houses on mass when we have a static birth rate, not!

              Natz wanted to create a housing crisis because there’s now competition between those who are unemployed or on low wages and those who can afford the 1.5 million houses but increasingly need to work overseas. Property in NZ is for wealthier people’s children and elderly to live in but somehow 1/2 the resident population or more can’t afford to live in main cities anymore.

              Not sure it’s the win win for everyone and certainly you would not think something the left would support, or is it?

              • Cemetery Jones …
                12 April 2018 at 3:49 pm

                Chicken/egg. I know plenty of people who are keeping the birth rate static because they don’t want to have children until they have a house, and this is now something which is pushed back increasingly late into life. Same thing in my case too.

                But also the entire economic argument for Kiwibuild is precisely that supply increase is the best way to make those houses no longer 1.5 million. This is precisely how we’ll make it affordable for that 1/2 of the resident population you’re supposedly concerned about.

                If you’re concerned about things the left should support, I just can’t see how you think that this current situation for the poorest 1/2 of NZ will change without building more stuff.

                • savenz …
                  12 April 2018 at 4:09 pm

                  Even at $600k they are not affordable. I think they need to raise wages ALOT!

                  Then stop immigration until we get in balance again, because the migrants have the same issues as Kiwis, they can’t afford to buy/rent here either on local wages, but often they have more options such as working overseas as they have two passports and access to much lower interest rates and have more money from the get go to compete for housing.

                  Of course when you allow anyone in the world to buy here and the world is becoming a much smaller cheaper place to travel regularly in, then you soon have a big issue with Kiwis not even being able to afford to be tenants in our own country. The houses going up are clearly not designed for Kiwi wages. They are spec houses for new people coming into the country. That is why developers crap themselves about stopping immigration – they need intense competition to keep the prices high and recover their costs.

                  Like building more motorways, (which once built quickly match demand and need more to be built) it is not really a sustainable solution because more people just come and you need more houses. You have to cut off demand for the housing equation to start working but if you have more people than housing coming in, then building more houses does not work.

                  I also believe in diversity. Go to China, Singapore and experience that type of city living, go to Europe something different again, Africa, Pacific Islands, Antarctic much lower human footprint,. That is what makes things interesting on our planet and in general people have adapted housing and population controls that match the their infrastructures.

                  Just because the 1% want NZ to increase bank and developer profits and sell more cornflakes with more people here, does not mean we will become a more wealthier better country but we will certainly become a less biodiverse one.

                  In addition the way things are going with our predominant ideology, it seems to be making a large percentage of Kiwi’s poorer and more precariat – not just housing, jobs, infrastructure, too.

                  • Cemetery Jones …
                    13 April 2018 at 10:41 am

                    Yes I agree that real affordability is ideally still south of $600k and so it should be. I am likewise for a qualified immigration pause – there may be some specialist fields where we will need to recruit, but things like these language school and cooking school scams need to end. However even with this ended, we need some supply increase to help achieve this. Demand control is good, they need to do more to also stop kiwi landlords scoffing up property. I actually think Gareth Morgan’s approach is the best I’ve seen, because it’s a tax approach which makes holding property painful rather than the traditional capital gains tax, which makes selling the property the point at which land barons pay. We need to make their holding of property the thing which gives them the tax bill, not the sale of it. That’ll do a lot to change things with land barons foreign and domestic.

                    Anyhow, thanks for a generally reasonable debate.

          • mikes 9.1.1.2.2
            13 April 2018 at 3:34 am

            Oh come on. You wouldn’t hear a squeak from these residents if it was somebody else’s neck of the woods where the materials were being collected.

            We have to get building materials from somewhere if we want to build shitloads more houses and at the moment, using trucks is the only option for transporting these materials from their locations.

            I guess we could import all materials which will cost a fortune and raise house prices even further.

            Nimbyism plain and simple,

            • savenz 9.1.1.2.2.1
              13 April 2018 at 7:31 am

              I guess we get into the ‘hunger games’ scenario, more powerful parts of the country turning poorer parts into shit holes to make more gleaming or in the case of much of NZ, crap leaky buildings high rises.

              You can’t just keep making parts of your country shit holes and take away people’s rights to benefit a few corporations and think that you live in a nice country and the people who now have shit holes are nimby.

              In NZ it’s mostly not even to benefit our country. It’s off shore corporations.
              James Hardie based offshore. Tegal owned by Asian buyout firm Affinity Equity Partners.

              http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1803/S00009/opposition-building-against-mega-chicken-farm-plan.htm

              Nobody cares because power is concentrated into a certain class of people who seldom move from their city base and if they do it’s to a Bach in a nice part that they certainly would not allow to turn into a chicken factory or sand mine, but it’s obviously fine, for the outskirts and provinces.

              Then there are the brainwashed liberals that read Spinoff and think everyone is a Nimby and by some sort of trickle down Spinoff arguments will get them a cheaper house or rental. All I can say is, how’s that working for you past 10 years since they started all the decimation of RMA and democracy? Noticed any cheaper houses – but like Rogernomics they just say, trust us, trickle down will happen. We’ve been waiting 30 years for Rogernomics to trickle down… If we can just import a few hundred thousand more cheap workers, voila, we will have cheaper houses!

              But who cares about most of the folks in this country, there’s someone’s elite agenda to finance in Wellington or Auckland.

              • Mikes …
                13 April 2018 at 9:34 am

                You do know there’s a severe housing shortage in auckland and there are 10’s of thousands of real people who have badly inadequate or overcrowded housing conditions and some no house at all right?

                Most of these people would look upon a nice lifestyle property with 60 trucks going down the road every week as paradise, trucks and all. If you’ve ever had to live rough for any period of time you’d understand and empathise with where I’m coming from

  10. JohnSelway 10
    12 April 2018 at 11:03 am

    John Boehner – The Politician: “I am unalterably opposed to to cannabis”
    John Boehner – The Businessman: “Here, hold my beer”…

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/us/politics/boehner-cannabis-marijuana.html

  11. savenz 11
    12 April 2018 at 11:08 am

    Now the universities are thinking about closing down special libraries and burning any inconvenient books.. that is what neoliberalism from government to promote a particular ideology at the management level at universities lead’s too. ..

    Library closures prompt fears University of Auckland will burn books

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/354765/library-closures-prompt-fears-university-of-auckland-will-burn-books

    • Cemetery Jones 11.1
      12 April 2018 at 11:31 am

      Idiots, you’d think they’d at least try selling them, or try offering them to public libraries on long-term loan. Now this I think is something the two of us can agree is absolute vandalism.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 2:12 pm

        They all need to be digitised and made available to the general public free of charge.

        • savenz 11.1.1.1
          12 April 2018 at 2:36 pm

          That is a good idea Draco.

          But I also think they should keep the specialist libraries at Auckland universities. Often the books are not commercial and have very good quality plates for the pictures, and are completely relevant to the course, so if you destroy them, that’s it.

        • James 11.1.1.2
          12 April 2018 at 3:16 pm

          The copywriters might have issue with that.

          • savenz 11.1.1.2.1
            12 April 2018 at 4:15 pm

            A good point, James, but maybe special license as it’s the way the world is going. Like music and iTunes. Doesn’t have to be a negative, but publishers are VERY backwards with tech.

    • cleangreen 11.2
      12 April 2018 at 11:32 am

      save nz said; – “Now the universities are thinking about closing down special libraries and burning any inconvenient books.”

      NAZI’s did this in 1933. – The book-burning campaign

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

      Goebbels speaking at a political rally against the Lausanne Conference (1932)
      On April 8, 1933, the Main Office for Press and Propaganda of the German Student Union proclaimed a nationwide “Action against the Un-German Spirit”, which was to climax in a literary purge or “cleansing” (“Säuberung”) by fire. Local chapters were to supply the press with releases and commissioned articles, sponsor well-known Nazi figures to speak at public gatherings, and negotiate for radio broadcast time.

    • mikes 11.3
      13 April 2018 at 3:44 am

      Books?

      Qu’est-ce que c’est?

  12. cleangreen 12
    12 April 2018 at 11:20 am

    saveNZ

    Phil Goff never did anything for us when he was a labour MP. He came to Gisborne when we had a 2000 march and 10480 petition to save our gisborne rail and he mulled around the rail station just drinking champagne we saw that may 2012 day one month after the rail line was washed out over a one km area when a drain failed so the local farmer witnessed, because national stole the staff and funds earlier from the line and caused the damage.

    Phil Goff went back to Wellington with this evidence and kept quiet about it since then so don’t expect help from him.

    • OnceWasTim 12.1
      12 April 2018 at 1:25 pm

      “Phil Goff went back to Wellington with this evidence and kept quiet about it since then so don’t expect help from him.”

      Was that around the time he was busy having his mid-life crisis and buying a Harley – or whatever it was he ended up with?

      • savenz 12.1.1
        12 April 2018 at 2:39 pm

        I guess not making a fuss about the SIS making him out to be a liar, which contributed to Labour’s loss under his leadership, also mean’t he got looked after and a nice job in Auckland for his silence and forgiveness to what the SIS did.

        Saying that I think he started off as a decent guy, but got encapsulated by Rogernomics and globalism. I guess if you turn a blind eye to the bad stuff and get showered with drinks and trips and meet ‘important’ people all the time, and stay in your bubble, you can avoid thinking about the negatives too closely.

      • James 12.1.2
        12 April 2018 at 3:17 pm

        Was a triumph

  13. Pat 13
    12 April 2018 at 12:15 pm

    Not sure how much of this was included in Ann Pettifor’s presentation at AUT this week but is worth a watch….a clear and intelligent assessment.

  14. Muttonbird 14
    12 April 2018 at 12:30 pm

    Looks like JA was right to keep pressure on Australia, even though they threw it back in her face…

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/04/australia-asked-nz-to-keep-refugee-offer-open-report.html

    • veutoviper 14.1
      12 April 2018 at 2:47 pm

      WOW! If that is true, that is mind-blowing.

      JA is on her way to the UK in the next day or so for CHOGM – Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in London next week 19/20 April which Turnbull will also be attending.

      The PM is travelling via Brisbane and the Commonwealth Games so timing of this disclosure is “interesting” to say the least. Not sure if she will be seeing Turnbull in Brisbane.

  15. Muttonbird 15
    12 April 2018 at 12:36 pm

    JA’s halting of oil and gas permits despite opposition from NZ first shows who is in charge and makes a mockery of the rabid right’s claims that Winston is the real boss.

    This is what a coalition government looks like in action. Making sensible decisions on the future of the country even though some of them might be difficult.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103043172/shane-jones-says-ending-oil-and-gas-exploration-is-the-only-scenario

  17. Ad 17
    12 April 2018 at 2:29 pm

    Don’t even ask me if this is overall good or bad, but I can’t help but be chilled by stronger and stronger Chinese government influence and governance of Chinese tech companies. From Bloomberg:

    “Communist Party committees have been installed at many tech firms, reviewing everything from operations to compliance with national goals. Regulators have been discussing taking a 1 percent stake in some giants, including Alibaba and Tencent, along with a board seat. Tech companies have been widely encouraged to invest in state-owned firms, in the hopes of making them more productive. The common denominator of all these efforts is that the government wants more control.

    An executive at a Chinese search engine recently summed up the new dynamic:

    ‘We’re entering an era in which we’ll be fused together. It might be that there will be a request to establish a Party committee within your company, or that you should let state investors take a stake, you know, as a form of mixed ownership. If you think clearly about this, you really can resonate together with the state. You can receive massive support. But if it’s your nature to want to go your own way, to think that your interests differ from what the state is advocating, then you’ll probably find that things are painful, more painful than in the past.’ ”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-12/china-is-nationalizing-its-tech-sector

    The question of state-directed capitalism v listed/regulated/free market capitalism is going to be one of those very big debates coming up.

    • mikes 17.1
      13 April 2018 at 3:53 am

      China is ruled by a communist regime. “…stronger and stronger Chinese government influence and governance of Chinese tech companies.” shouldn’t be surprising at all, that is normal behaviour for the Chinese leadership.

  18. ianmac 18
    12 April 2018 at 3:14 pm

    Paula Bennett called for an urgent debate on the oil gas exploration decision announced today.
    She got it. And what a terrible speech she gave! Hope she stays on as Deputy because she is awful. Gets worse when she meandered on with repetitions to fill the lack of substance and time in hand.
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=199922

  20. eco maori 20
    13 April 2018 at 8:26 am

    Newshub good morning I say Vapours are a good tool to give up smoking I’m just not in the right situation to seriously try and give up smoking ready made smokes are the hardest on the lungs in my view one of those will be equal to smoking a 50 gram of roll your owns.
    May be I should got to Auckland and do some Arbor care do a bit of that work I have the tools. Duncan trump back tracks on Syria that’s great news.
    Hers a link Ka pai Ka kite ano

    Trump backtracks on Syria strike

    • eco maori 20.1
      13 April 2018 at 8:48 am

      The AM Show I’m at the farm with the mokos multi tasking I not as good as the Lady’s are. I Back our new Coalition government stand on Oil Drilling no more new drilling. Ka kite ano Kia kaha. P.S some for getting the name of your show wrong

      • eco maori 20.1.1
        13 April 2018 at 1:51 pm

        Here we go a story on inequality of wealth from the Guardian if this is not fixed there will be trouble it _____ me off when I see this lying economist say to to people that it best to rent that own the property. Here the link. Kia kaha common tangata
        Ka kite ano.

        Wealth inequality is soaring – here are the 10 reasons why it’s happening

        • eco maori 20.1.1.1
          13 April 2018 at 2:22 pm

          How to solve home less people problems give them a house no string attached.

          https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/12/finland-homelessness-rough-sleepers-britain

          Here the link for my post above

          https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/12/wealth-inequality-reasons-richest-global-gap Ka kite ano P.S if you want want to help your grandchildren future buy a house and pass it on to the children

          • eco maori 20.1.1.1.1
            13 April 2018 at 6:41 pm

            Newshub there you go alcohol problem at the Gold Coast.
            Still no power in parts of Auckland this is why I say that it’s not on baning new fireplace in new houses in Rotorua. Dynamo looks like a cool magician he was in Christchurch more Good publicity for Aotearoa New Zealand Ka pai.
            There you go treat good people badly and the bad Karma bites you on the – – – – trump This one reason I treat everyone with respect and teach my children to do the same.
            Ingrid we are lucky that OUR Ancestors decided to take the route of diplomacy and peaceful solution instead of WAR it sad to see those poor children in Demascos Africa in such hardship.
            Some people are not very bright throwing stuff on a fire Ka kite ano Im watching The Crowd goes Wild TV 4 say
            high to Mulls James Ana to kai

  21. eco maori 21
    13 April 2018 at 7:21 pm

    The Crowd goes Wild ch 4 Prime TV Tangata whenua on tonight Wairangi and Makere ki ora I try not to have favourites but I do cool it’s going to be a good weekend of sports people who follow my post will know Who ECO MAORI is backing I’m looking after my 12 months old Mokopuna on the farm she is my tahonga.
    Jonathan Thurston Is the man he is a excellent League player a good positive person who is a Great role model for all Brown people especially the Australian tangata whenua. Josh is going to look hard case in long Jons good on him no way a WAI that’s not you in long Jon’s lol Ka kite ano P.S to all our sports stars Kia kaha

  22. eco maori 22
    13 April 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Here you go the engineer in Taranaki can use some of the coalition government new green energy funding to retool and make equipment for generating renewable energy. Here the link.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12032074
    Ka kite ano

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