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6:00 am, August 13th, 2023 - 88 comments
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The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
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https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300945108/chemtrails-911-and-vaccine-nanobots-the-digital-trail-of-nz-firsts-couldbe-mps
Winston's going to the bottom of the barrel for candidates
Well…that pretty much shows his desperation. But good that its now shown. And good on you for linking it.
People on the standard shun the msm but stuff do good stuff , they need support
Yea I read Stuff. And they are ok. Its the same with all Media. You have to apply some critical thinking.
One good thing I see…the nutbar conspiracists are heavily infighting and in disarray (well kinda a given considering ! )
Should be good for us on Left…given ACT arent too keen on NZfirst.
They'll be counting clicks at stuff so reading the good ones and dodging the average ones will help
Oh yea….very valid point ! And..re your other comment, I think a strong Green/Te Pati would indeed be a good thing.
Who would know what goes on in Winston's mind? But you gotta be concerned when some of his new friends are affiliated to making NZ "ungovernable"..
Agree 100% bwaghorn. and PsyclingLeft.Always They produce some thought provoking stuff.
Remember, Stuff also platforms ultra-right wing f-wit, Damien Grant.
Freedom of speech, I read it to see how they think, mostly he reminds me of what lies beneath act
yes he' s a righty.
"Let's take our country back" says the NZF 2023 party slogan.
I ask, "Back from what? Back from whom?"
Mrs Mac1 asks "Back to the Sixties?"
They stole that slogan from Judith Collins, you realise – she declared it back when she became Nat leader? She ought to remind the media of that. When I saw her say it on the tv news I was amused: `Yeah, you & what army?'
Sounds a lot like Farrage/Boris and the "Take Back Control". The idea that something has been taken from you and that you have a right/obligation to reclaim it is quite powerful politically.
It's a racist dog whistle…
And it has a Trump sounding connection too. Bit of a worry considering who NZFirst has attaching themselves….
It is better to be known than not known as a politician.
Even better if you are known to believe in something.
Less than 100 people in NZ can name anyone under the top 20 in Labour, Greens, Act or National, and fewer than that know what any of them stand for.
Of the 120 people in parliament, 99% of NZers only know any of their names when they stuff up or are PM or leader of the opposition.
And despite MMP this Parliament are remarkably bland.
We need more elected weirdos.
100%
I follow US politics. A marker of the insanity of some aspects of it is Marjorie Taylor Greene. That she can get elected, be supported while being as loopy and limited is of course, astounding.
“At least that could never happen here,” regularly comes to mind.
Murfitt is standing, she could be our version of MTG. Sure the bizarre thinking crazies will support her but let her ‘qualities’ be out there so sane people know what they’re voting for.
And there is the making NZ "ungovernable" element. Potentially very dangerous people…..
fresh air and sunlight.
The long rumoured announcement to come today?
http://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350053627/labour-promise-take-gst-fresh-and-frozen-fruit-and-vegetables
Well, if that's what happens, I guess we'll all have to give them credit for their machavellian leaking of it to the Nat deputy leader a month back. Most people wouldn't expect Labour to be that clever.
If your deliberate-leak theory is correct… it's a shot own foot for labour.
The early leak has taken all the whizz-bang out of it…
(And my previously voiced fears that this is it..is those worst fears realized..)
They could keep it simple and abolish GST altogether. Pay for the move wit a more steeply progressive tax system.
"If your deliberate-leak theory is correct… it's a shot own foot for labour."
In the past when I was more politically involved, the primary source of most leaks was believed to be a public servant – someone who knows enough to put two and two together… The leaking occurs in a roundabout sort of way so that original source is rarely identified.
Just saying.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300949203/labour-to-promise-to-take-gst-off-fresh-and-frozen-fruit-and-vegetables
Looks like it's a go, pathetic tinkering, I've been getting the feeling for a while that chippie is all about chippie, , be greens or tpm for me.
Its awful policy and I hope it never gets enacted.
Screws with the simplicity of the gst system, provides minimal if any benefit where its needed ($5-10 per week) at best.
Far better to leave the system alone and give everyone $10 per week by way of a tax free threshold or something
I cannot understand the thinking, absolutely everyone says it a dog of a policy,
Looking at the calibre of elected representatives of the 'leader of the free world',there's really no cause for alarm.
There are candidates here in NZ of major parties who believe there is an invisible being in the sky…who has 10 things you are not allowed to…do.
The bottom of the barrel must be near empty these days ,when you look at the credentials of political aspirants.ACT is a good example.
Under the Banking Association’s Orderly scenario, decisive climate action would limit the world to 1.4°C temperature rise – and still has the potential to deliver a positive impact to domestic GDP.
"That is completely implausible," says Sandy Trust from EY, the author of a recent report by the UK Institute of Actuaries.
Compare the banks' worst case scenario with the one designed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change – one where the world continues to rely intensely on fossil fuels. In a world that assumes 4.4 degrees of warming by 2100, society would be facing an existential risk of collapse, Trust says.
Matt Raeburn, a New Zealand-based climate scenarios specialist with consulting firm WSP, also doesn’t think the banks' scenarios properly reflect the risk.
"To put it colloquially, when I read the NZ Banking Association’s scenarios, I just don’t think they get it yet," he says.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/its-going-to-be-messy-banks-underestimate-threat-of-climate-change
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
Pleasing to see Stuff investigating some of desperate Winston's weird candidates. High time it was exposed who he is consorting with.
Not surprising now that he made a pilgrimage to the protesters at Parliament last year. There he was, amongst the rag tag unwashed mob, sauntering around in his finely tailored suit and Italian shoes. He was using the occasion to appear relevant, but no way would he camp down among the chaos and rubbish and spend the night there.
Isn't there a proverb about if you lie with dogs you end up with fleas?
It's more if you lie with anti-vax loons..you end up with candidates of a similar calibre ..
War….when will the madness..end?
'The World Bank has estimated that rebuilding Ukraine after the war could cost as much as $350 billion.
'Beyond the immediate deficit, Ukraine's government has an estimated US$750 billion in direct economic costs from the war, which could be as high as US$1 trillion if indirect costs are added'.
(And the human cost-10 million displaced,100’s of thousands dead and injured.)
US President asks for NZ$34 billion for Ukraine as counteroffensive sputters | Stuff.co.nz
as high as US$1 trillion
that cost will be way to too small IMO
Watched Jack Tane with Steven Joyce on Q&A this morning. Twenty minutes of free campaign advertising for the National Party. 🙄
I thought it was a good interview, don't agree with everything thing Joyce says but he ain't the worst, of course there's a huge difference between putting a cable under ground, broadband rollout , and putting light rail down the middle of a Auckland rd, maybe the next government should hire him to do it. !!!
The broadband rollout seems to be the go to project when the Nats say they get things done. It was their crowning achievement over 9 years.
As you say, hiring cheap offshore labour to dig a few micro trenches in cities and towns is not a particularly difficult project.
Wasn't Dotcom threatening to do that, then Key got involved and Chorus was born? Is my memory correct?
A lot of the Broadband cables were thrust – only the ends were dug. No need to close the road, no trenching, just the equivalent of "keyhole surgery".
A lot of the Chorus fibre in Wellington was installed late in the rollout and is strung overhead between poles. It's a weird hodgepodge of some small sections underground and then up a pole to continue as an aerial cable.
The Greens have announced a clean power payment policy plan:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/495691/elections-2023-political-parties-announce-major-policies
https://www.greens.org.nz/saving_the_planet_and_saving_money_it_s_as_easy_as_more_green_mps
James Shaw's speech is here: https://www.greens.org.nz/clean_power_payment_james_shaw_speech
The greens deserve credit for this rolling maul of logical/sensible/well thought out/problem solving policies..they have been serving up..
This latest one maintains that quality level…
Greater energy efficiency is the only way to be less dependent on increasing the power supply (given the resources used to produce equipment for new generation) is to require, or incentivise, such investment.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2308/S00070/over-50000-more-kiwis-to-be-eligible-for-insulation-grants.htm
The key point about the link by SPC to the additions to the insulation grants is that they are Govt policy NOW. They are not part of the election strategy but build on the work done in the Budget 2023 and prior.
This means that you don't have to wait until your favourite party fronts up in the election, becomes a party that the elected govt wants to negotaiate with, is part of what is agreed in a coalition agreement and then is implemented say from 2024…..
Bird in the hand etc.
and
This will mean that people will be able to plan to have insulation and other improvements carried out from now on which is the best time of year to do this.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2308/S00070/over-50000-more-kiwis-to-be-eligible-for-insulation-grants.htm
And a link to the programme
https://www.eeca.govt.nz/co-funding/insulation-and-heater-grants/warmer-kiwi-homes-programme/?gclid=CjwKCAjwjYKjBhB5EiwAiFdSfswKecfuB20xR0XoUHGLTBLzTSzXH1-sHTo7USCgWcYT5LQeq6Y0PBoCb_oQAvD_BwE
On average it will cost around $35,000 to double glaze a 100m2 home and around up to $20,000 for solar power and battery setup.
Does the Green's new policy have provisions for households that are deemed unable to service a loan?
Or have those poorer/struggling households (that need the financial relief the most) been overlooked?
No interest means there isn't the pressure to service the loan above what is affordable and people will be able to get a grant of $6000 as well as the loan. Did you perhaps overlook all of this in the announcement?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/495691/elections-2023-political-parties-announce-major-policies
No interest doesn't reduce the principal (amounts shown above) and the grant comes nowhere near covering the total amount, as you also pointed out. Thus, no, I didn't overlook them.
You are aware ones income and liabilities are taken into account when seeking a loan, leaving a number unable to service, thus secure a loan.
Furthermore, scaling up solar on Kainga Ora homes doesn't help poor/struggling homeowners.
So it seems those poorer/struggling households (that need the financial relief the most) have been overlooked. Unless you have something else to point too?
If there is no interest on a loan it can be paid off slowly, there is no evidence these are to be means tested beyond having a regular income; the extra money to pay the loan is acquired through power saving from the increased thermal efficiency gained by the improvements.
Who are these poorer/struggling households in your opinion? Not people in social housing?
Then there's their taxation policy with an income guarantee and a $10k threshold. All these policies overlap it's a bizarre claim that the 'poorer/struggling' have been overlooked, there's no one else offering more for the struggling, or for the planet. Party vote Green
The income guarantee is a very small amount.
A very small amount, that happens to be more that what's currently offered. But no, you say the Greens overlook the ‘poorer/struggling’.
The ability to service a loan results in whether or not people are able to obtain one.
https://www.nzba.org.nz/banking-information/consumer-lending/you-and-consumer-lending-law/
Those on low or fixed incomes. Those that have high debt and little spare income. Therefore, power savings may not help secure the loan.
That only applies to commercial lending practices which all involve interest. The Climate Emergency Response Fund would be the lender of the interest free loans, not banks.
So when the Greens said: an initial focus on lower-income households. You saw that as overlooking those households on low or fixed income?
Can you show me where the Climate Emergency Response Fund (being the lender) allows them to override the responsible lending rules?
When the Greens said: an initial focus on lower-income households, they overlooked homeowners on low or fixed incomes, as I've been pointing out to you.
So does consumer credit law apply to the provision of student loans, another interest free, government funded loan system?
Are you saying instead of helping poorer/struggling households with larger grants, they should be burdened with debt they cannot afford to repay?
Is that your idea of helping them?
We are disagreeing over whether the debt is affordable. You are making the assumption that the savings in power couldn't be used to pay off the loan, that the income guarantee wouldn't improve the lot of those 'poorer/struggling' households that own their own home but somehow have insufficient income to pay off an interest free loan. That's quite a few contra-evidenced assumptions.
If savings in power is going to pay off debt, what savings do they actually gain from the process? Nada. Again, not really helping them, is it?
once the debt is paid off their power costs are lower going forward than they are now.
Additionally, they’ve increased household, community and societal resiliency in the climate crisis as well as helping mitigate.
Single, 25 years or over on a benefit gets $337.74 in the hand. And that is not counting any other top ups.
Sole parent in the hand without any other top ups is $472.79
Single, living alone on a pension gets $496.37 in the hand without any other top up.
https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/products/benefit-rates/benefit-rates-april-2023.html
So again, the income guarantee is a very small amount that some benefits already exceed.
It's helping them to have warmer, more energy efficient home for a start. At the end of paying the loan they have a warmer, drier, cheaper-to-run home, have paid no interest and will continue to benefit from the savings.
So a lot more than nothing.
@weka
That largely depends on the repayment rate (how much are the savings) thus time it takes to payoff the loan. Coupled with the longevity of the product.
Teslar power wall warranty is 10 years.
https://www.zenenergy.co.nz/blog/what-is-the-life-expectancy-of-a-solar-panel
90% grants – heating and insulation – CSC holder and those in areas 7-9.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2308/S00070/over-50000-more-kiwis-to-be-eligible-for-insulation-grants.htm
Labour thinks saving $4 a week on veges will win votes means they think voters are just dumb
Fisiani returns after four long years away from The Standard! Nice to see you're still fizzing…..
Moreover, it won't kick in till April.
Once again, showing how out of touch Labour are. Struggling households need far more than $5 a week and they need relief now.
Sadly it appears that the leaks were accurate and Nicola Willis was able to take all the gloss off this policy.
It concerns me that many on the left appear to be opposed to this plan, but I understand why.
I was hoping for something truly transformational to inspire the base and change the lefts fortunes.
I don't think that was it…
And Ffs, sort your microphone out beforehand!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132734668/live-labour-to-cut-gst-on-fresh-and-frozen-fruit-and-vegetables-from-april
Livestream still happening…
Families will be thinking $5 savings per week means one person will be able to get a burger each week – or an extra loaf of bread, or a takeaway coffee. They'll be so excited by this prospect. Next poll will show the effect!
Labours big big announcement was a dud.
A policy that had already leaked to the public.
The Blairite is firmly in save the furniture mode, he doesn't believe or want another term
I hope you're wrong Corey. But fear you aren't.
Labour are going to bleed votes..that much is a given..
I just hope those voters migrate to greens/tmp…
About twenty years ago one newspaper published an article about religious nutters from the USA seeing NZ as a place that was small enough to remake in the image they wanted. They named 50 very well off Americans who were part of a list. Some had already moved here. I've never been able to find the article in recent years.
I'm occasionally reminded of this when something happens eg when Act had to suddenly get citizenship a few years back for five of their candidates who were recent arrivals to NZ, when Thiel was given citizenship, the increasing number of religious people in parties, the rise of Trump, the increase inn religious teaching the secular state schools, etc.
Been watching the documentary about Donald Cline, the fertility doctor who used his own sperm to impregnate his patients. In this is mentioned a group I had not previously heard of – Quiverfall.
Quiverfull is a Christian theological position that sees large families as a blessing from God.It encourages procreation, abstaining from all forms of birth control, natural family planning, and sterilization.
Some sources have referred to the Quiverfull position as providentialism, while other sources have simply referred to it as a manifestation of natalism.
It is most widespread in the United States but it also has adherents in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere. One 2006 estimate put the number of families which subscribe to this philosophy as ranging from "the thousands to the low tens of thousands".
Somewhat surprised to find adherents in NZ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull
Posted some musing on this back in 2013, when I was still connected to the home education community:
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02062013/#comment-642343
Just like outside of home education, there are a variety of different beliefs in the home education families – ranging from the familiar Christian families, to brethrens, but I do recall a couple of meetings with US immigrant families – that followed more fundamental doctrines. (I was point of contact for new families for a couple of committees). It was then I was introduced to the quiverful concept.
(Contact didn't last long, once they realised my last name did not match my children's and I wasn't married, but there were enough to be a noticeable cohort.)
It was so long ago, reading the comment feels like I'm reading someone else but here's what I posted back then:
As mentioned, long out of the loop in the home education community. If anyone else is still involved, it'd be good to have an update on whether they have seen any development along these lines.
No GST on fresh produce:
1. Well I for one can't wait for my discount on fresh veggies, so as long as the poor pay GST on canned Tomatoes and Peas as there is no way they can actually afford fresh food on their income. And fwiw, the Government needs its increased GST take, after all they for sure will not tax the rich and wealthy people such as themselves and their partners/spouses.
2. Why not also no GST on bread, butter, cheese and meat? To fancy for the poor?
3. Why not immediately after the election but only starts in April next year? To hard for the businesses and accoutants?
4. GST is a cost that runs through all steps of production. So would a Farmer be able no pay the GST on his fertilizers, seeds and other cost of production? Or is this only a gift to supermarkets? Or is it a gift to accountants for extra billable hours?
5. Really Labour. That is the fucking best you can do? That is your help to deal with the cost of living? Who told you that? Like what oracle did you consult that came to you with a booming voice " Remove GST of Fresh Fruit/Veggies, the poor can't afford it but it will make you look like you care"?
Far out, never did i think that i would watch the implosion of a lefty party due to arrogance, lack of ideas and incompetence at best, willful arrogance at worst.
Because they don't have a magic wand?
The cost of living is ruining peoples live now, so really they should come up with something that has a bit of urgency attached to it. Anything else is really just posturing and rallying the faithful, but otherwise utterly devoid of meaning.
Secondly, they are power, full majority, they need no one to cosign that policy if it is so great. After all, as i stated above, the cost of living crisis has been an issue for a while now.
I mean literally they could bring back the discount on fuel and free public transport for all, immediately, that would have an impact. But maybe that thing is just about grand standing.
Labour, we are just make up and pretense.. please vote for us, cause otherwise we would have to find jobs.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the government has a budget and an election. See if you can figure out why that particular policy would start in April.
Meanwhile in the real world, people have ran out of money, food, electricity and good faith. Need weekly food parcels and live in cramped emergency housing cause they can't afford to rent a dog kennel.
I know why its going to start in April, everyone knows. What we can not figure out how this is going to fight the rampant and run a way cost of living today, tomorrow and for the next 8 month.
Labour has a full majority, they could have removed GST for a while now literally of all food items, and i am sure they could have done that with the full support of the Greens and TPM.
Yet, they did not. Labour, on record for doing the right things only when they are about to lose an election.
"4. GST is a cost that runs through all steps of production. So would a Farmer be able no pay the GST on his fertilizers, seeds and other cost of production?"
Not so. GST is a transaction that runs through all steps of production, but is only a cost to the final consumer. Farmers pay GST at the time of purchase of seed etc, but, so long as the farming business is registered for GST (because of the level of turnover most have to be), they declare that GST paid by them when they submit their regular GST return to IRD and receive a full refund of that GST paid.
When they sell their veggies to the supermarket (or any intermediaries) they charge GST on the sale price, declare that amount on their GST return and pay that GST collected to IRD.
The supermarket does the same on their GST return.
It's the final consumer who pays the GST charged at time of purchase, cannot register for GST, so cannot claim a refund.
well not quite.
chances are that you sell more product then you buy raw materials to produce. So in essence businesses also pay GST, specially if they make a profit. But they can write of the cost as a business expense.
So can i not pay the GST that i was charged when i bought my raw materials, if it adds to he price of fruit and vegetables? After all that is the point? To make fruit and veggies affordable.
What GST content is removed, only the GST levy where the Supermarket sells a carrot -GST inc -to the end consumer, or the step where the supermarket buys its produce from the farmer GST inc, or the step where the farmer buys fertilizer, land, seeds, water, etc all inc GST? Will the GST content that was accrued by transport be removable? As all these things are part of price setting, i.e. all costs and all accrued GST.
The reason why GST is regressive is that it is charged at every step of production, and while businesses can write of GST as an expense, they still have to pay the difference of GST paid and GST received, ever month, two month or yearly and can only claim it back at the end of the year. The end consumer however pays for ever cent of GST charged on every step of production.
"Really Labour. That is the fucking best you can do?"
Yep. Labour – betraying NZ since 1984. We're screwed.
My impression is Grant has had to swallow a few dead rats lately. Sir Michael Cullens tax working group was against this policy and so was Grant some months back.
But Grant is a team player and has done his best here. I don't like the policy personally, I believe there are better, more targeted ways to support kiwis, but this policy is out there now.
Chris Hipkins although a decent man, isn't the leader we need right now. Grant should've stepped up when Dame Jacinda stepped down.
But it is what it is. If we get a third term it will be a miracle.
And that is why the Labour party has a good chance of losing. They collectively have no spine, no guts and no not a single conviction that they would defend and / or uphold
They played their team into being a mockery of a serious political party that can read the room their in.
But my theory is they don't want to win. Now its time for N to come along and finish the job, and N will. They are the two sides of NZ INC and we are just either profit centres or cost centres.