There has been many comparisons made between the very different political situation in the UK and NZ.
There is no doubt that Jeremy Corbyn had a great campaign. His Labour party was ultimately unsuccessful, but Corbyn should have at least secured himself as leader, a major shift from recent rifts in the party.
Can Andrew Little do something similar here? I think that it will take a major change of approach, because there is night and day between Corbyn’s self confidence, straight talking and authenticity and Little’s well rehearsed and often poorly delivered performances.
Tracy Watkins seems unconvinced that Andrew Little is in any way like Mr Corbyn: “When Little has got into trouble lately it’s for dodging questions by sticking to patsy answers and one-liners rather than speaking to the heart of an issue. This is not because Little lacks authenticity or doesn’t know the answers; it’s a deliberate strategy from the Labour team. Little has even explained it to me. It’s about staying on message apparently” – see: Expecting the unexpected the new situation normal.
According to Tracy Watkins, Labour are failing to emulate Mr Corbyn’s bold and authentic approach: “The Labour team seems to think this [staying on message approach] is the same as the Corbyn strategy, or for that matter the Bernie Sanders strategy, of running a campaign around a small number of big, bold ideas. But as May showed, there’s a big difference between big ideas and trite sound bites. Little had the advantage of having little political baggage as a relatively new MP and being able to run on the anti-politician ticket but seems to be squandering it.”
Can Little and Labour switch to the Corbyn approach? Should they try three months out from our election?
I thought that Little promoted himself as a straight talker, but he comes across more like a media managed puppet. A similar conflict wrecked David Shearer’s leadership.
Repeating the same failed approach is not doing a lot for Little or Labour at the moment.
Still dripping with beige venom and malice though, innit.
And obsessed with turning politics into a leaders’ popularity contest. When Corbyn’s asked why Labour increased their vote so much he points to their manifesto, and that is the real lesson of the UK election.
Yep Mr oily brown judgment judges with spin designed to support his gnat masters. One thing Little has that George cannot even comprehend is authenticity and honesty. Every beige blurt is packed with untruths and dishonesty as he tries to hobble the left in the guise of helping. You are too slow, too dim and too self absorbed Pete – we know your smelly game bub.
Centrism might be over for the left. Not that activists ever embraced it anyway.
But I am pretty sure that is where National will stay. We will soon know whether it continues to work for National. I do appreciate that OAB thinks National is actually extreme rabid right, but no serious commentator thinks that.
I can see the rabies of the right in the child poverty and homelessness statistics. The cruelty. The corruption. The attacks on human rights and the rule of law. The suicide statistics.
So I don’t really care what you call it: centrism is a good enough word for callous greed and sophistry.
Spot on OAB.
The right thinks that throwing a few crumbs to the hoi polloi whilst letting business overrun and control everything is Centrism. People matter…. something the right can’t grasp. It’s time the pendulum swung towards the people.
Yep – the Overton window defines the limits of ‘acceptable’ thought.
The last 35 years have been highly regressive by shifting that window substantially to the right. I’m beginning to dare to believe that I can hear the sclerotic, rusted hinges squeak as it starts its return journey.
You still think Neo-liberal extremisim, is “centrist”?
I suppose I have to give you points for believing your own bullshit.
Or maybe that is what is so scary. The authors of the Neo-liberal fuckup still believe they are right, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Corbyn has exposed what the majority really want. And it is not spivs and opportunists running away with the money, while the rest of us, struggle.
Heard of Overtons window?
If you believe in neoliberal economics you’re centrist.
Once this extreme ideology is discarded, it’s believers like Wayne will be seen for what they are.
Fundamentalists.
It’s still highly debatable whether taking NZ Labour to the left, as Corbyn has done with UK Labour, would succeed. He campaigned well, but that’s in large part because of a dumb move by May to call a snap election, and a very poor campaign by May.
Most compliments of Corbyn are that he came across as genuine and authentic, regardless of his policies he believed in them and was confident in promoting them. Some still criticised the leftness of his policies, but applauded his straight talking.
I think the lesson here is for any politician of any leaning.
The age of over managed media messaging is over. Voters want to hear what leaders believe in, they want to gauge their convictions and abilities from seeing them as they are, not as some PR caricature.
Even Trump’s success can be put down to enough voters thinking he said things as he saw them, as flawed as his messages were.
Trump and Corbyn are very different, but at least they put themselves out there as they are, warts and all.
Voters judge people, and get turned off by political PR, they don’t like it and don’t trust it.
Corbyn’s sincerity plays well against the economic outcomes generated by his opponents, all of whom have promised great things, none of which have succeeded.
His restraint from negative campaigning also came across as classy, again, the contrast provided by the low tactics of the Murdoch media highlighted the character difference.
It doesn’t hurt that he has a program that will probably work. We’re all sick of non-performing pretenders.
” but that’s in large part because of a dumb move by May to call a snap election, and a very poor campaign by May”
Pete , pete, pete.
Why then did May get 42%, the highest vote for conservatives since the thatcher years ? Her campaign was right on target and boosted Tory votes. They were something like 60 votes from a bare majority.
Just labours approach was better as they jumped 10%
“… one day it’s ‘Corbyn’s a nutter, be less like him’. The next, ‘Corbyn’s a genius, be more like him’…”
Unless you are Josie Pagani, whose latest piece of neolib claptrap is to claim Corbyn would have won if he had only not alienated the Blairites in his caucus.
Those poor, defenceless wee morsels of the UK PLP, so put upon by those wretched, beastly Corbynistas.
She gets air time on TV because she has a “TV face”. That is, she comes across as attractive. She talks a load of gobbledygook most of the time but gets away with it because she’s articulate in the way she says it. Finally she’s spent years cultivating media people who are useful to her.
In other words she’s a fake who has set herself up as some sort of Think Tank guru but as far as I can tell she has no actual qualifications for the job.
The mafia metaphor is a bit fanciful, but fundamentally I agree with Trotter.
Compare and contrast Corbyn’s revitalised UKLP with a surge of 150,000 new members since the election … now over 800,000 in total and heading towards a million … with an NZLP that is almost absent in whole swathes of NZ life.
True. I’m guilty of using names (Corbyn, Sanders, Cunliffe, etc) as a cheap shortcut to expressing a massive shift in manifesto and values. So yeah that’s the crappy side of personality politics.
Equally you cannot entirely erase who Corbyn and Sanders are as people. It’s not just a question of ‘direct and authentic’; John Key managed to fake that brilliantly for years. It really comes down to an entire political lifetime of coherent belief and action.
As an aside, I don’t notice anyone complaining about UK Labour’s manifesto being “fully costed”, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the ‘budget responsibility’ rules here in NZ.
Lets see what is in Labour’s September 23 manifesto and judge them on that, not on the venom spouted by Edwards/Watkin/Trotter/George etc
Labour has an opportunity to make a real difference in promising targeted spending on housing/education/health/public transport/environment/WFF/Cullen fund given the surpluses now forecast .
Little comes over to me as honest. English/Joyce/Smith/Bennett come over to me as devious. I think the voters will pick this.
All well and good. I bloody well hope the NZLP puts up a bold manifesto that represents a real break with their neo-lib past, and truly resonates with that large mass of voters who stopped listening years back.
But this habit of bi-polar thinking the solution to all political problems is either policy OR personality is weirdly unhelpful. Is it too much to ask for the NZLP to not only put up a manifesto we can believe in, but leaders and spokespeople who sound like THEY believe in it too?
No-one ever imagined the two situations mapped directly onto each other; for a start NZ (and some credit is due National) has not gone through almost a decade of pointlessly brutal austerity. Nor have we had anything remotely as destabilising as the entire Brexit debacle.
But while the proximate events and timing are different, the trends are similar. Our housing crisis, low wages, high costs, widespread precarious employment, stressed health and education sectors are all heading firmly in the wrong direction for far too many kiwis. Fundamentally the gap between those doing just fine, and those trapped into a dead-end poverty of opportunity and mean grinding lives is just too large.
Whether this widening economic and class gap becomes the live wire of this election is hard to predict. If nothing else Corbyn has proved that campaigns still matter and a week is still a long time in politics.
I don’t have much quibble with your post at face value. It’s your timing and motives that feel sucky.
I’m on record here as a strong supporter of left-wing figures like Cunliffe, Sanders and Corbyn pretty much from the outset. I attended Rod Donald’s memorial service at Parliament years back, and still feel the sense of unjust loss. I’m proud that Helen Clark is a kiwi and great memories of several personal encounters with her. Earlier I recall with some pleasure a private and casual lunch with David Lange. And while Gareth Morgan isn’t everyone’s cup of tea around here; I like his willingness to put novel and interesting policy up for public debate … in this same direct and unrehearsed manner.
Most compliments of Corbyn are that he came across as genuine and authentic, regardless of his policies he believed in them and was confident in promoting them. Some still criticised the leftness of his policies, but applauded his straight talking.
I think the lesson here is for any politician of any leaning.
Personally I feel comfortable in my political skin; but when I read your comment above I really don’t get the same sense. Maybe you are the best person to answer why not.
Helen Clark is a good person to bring up – she was widely respected in politics due I think to here wide and in depth knowledge of policies and issues, and the forthright way she expressed herself. She came across as authentic and believable and trustworthy.
John Key had a very different style but was also very popular (obviously not here but overall).
Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe and Little have all had problems with emulating successful party leaders and Prime Ministers. I think that’s a significant reason why Labour has struggled to rebuild support.
I agree on Gareth Morgan, he is passionate and well informed and says things without PR manipulation. A welcome addition to election options.
I’m not the best person to answer why you think my comment feels “sucky”.
The timing is because it is a very topical issue following the UK election. Bryce Edwards ddevoted his column yesterday to it, I provided the link.
Lessons to be learned from Corbyn and the UK election are a major talking point in politics here at the moment.
Do you think the timing of all of that discussion is sucky?
But Clark in no way resembles Corbyn, she was highly autocratic to the degree that some blame her for a leadership vacuum subsequent to her departure.
The same thing will almost certainly happen with Corbyn as he establishes his power base. Having colleagues attacking you directly and indirectly as happened to Clark (eg Goff barbecue), Goff (think of some of the daft faction fighting), Lange (Douglas et al) etc etc. For that matter in National with Muldoon, Mclay, Bolger, English etc, The defections and take over attempts in NZ first. The Stringer coup in the Conservatives.
Corbyn and pile of other leaders after any of these kinds of factional attacks tend to have the obvious defensive reaction to minimize the exposure to attack long after they are aren’t happening. It especially shows up after they have more control over their environment. So far it has been shadow ministers leaving. Soon it will be particular shadow cabinet members getting shuffled to where they are less of a danger.
Similarly with movements within the party. Because you can guarantee that the victorious in the internecine wars are seldom good winners.
OK so my invitation to some self-reflection has been turned down. I think the problem you are creating for yourself here is that if you want to be on the side of ‘authentic and genuine’ you have a fair old credibility hurdle to leap over. That’s what OAB and mm are reacting to.
Here’s the thing PG … I’d be delighted to see you make that leap.
Personally I feel comfortable in my political and social media skin. I question the motives of those who attack me personally, presumably trying to divert from the issues raised.
Funny that you ask me to “self-reflect” while giving OAB and mm a free pass.
You asked about my motives – my primary motive has always been to promote cross party and cross blog discussion on topical political and social issues.
And I stand up to those who try to trash decent discussion. Politics has long been dirty but I think social media, political blogs at least, could set a much better example. Obviously some people want to stick to dirt.
[RL: Trying to invoke moderation on the sly is one of your less attractive gambits.]
What do I need a free pass for? Accurately describing your comment as “dripping with beige venom and malice”?
Take your poison pen and stick it in your eye to keep the beam company.
[RL: I don’t need PG to prompt me into moderating … as much as I’m reluctant to do it these days… but you’ve stepped over the line many times before and copped warnings and bans. Sooner or later someone, probably not me, will run out of patience.]
“Personally I feel comfortable in my political and social media skin.”
Rhino hide, more like. Impenetrable to suggestions and there are plenty made here. If, as you claim, your “primary motive has always been to promote cross party and cross blog discussion on topical political and social issues.”, then a little introspection should show you that your approach is far from “promotional”, more confrontational and irritating. I suppose you will see yourself as an pearl-maker, but Pete, that makes you grit and grit’s never appreciated by oysters, any living thing with eyelids and mucus membranes, or wearers of shoes.
Pete George reminds me of the Guardian coverage of Corbyn.
“Don’t change my comfortable life by making things better for those who are not part of the establishment”, while pretending to be leftish.
people who think they are the ‘political elite’ in New Zealand, just like the UK, are very uncomfortable with “disruptors” that hold a mirror to their own lack of effective action.
Given the number of times (which is a lot) you reply with the word troll – without actually adding to the conversation actually makes you one:
“Similarly if you act like a machine (ie a troll) you will be treated as one – a form of spambot. A troll is generally defined on this site as someone who clearly isn’t bothering to engage their brain when commenting. The standard is that the troll could be replaced with a dictionary of lines and phrases, and no-one would know the difference. Typically trolls do not interact with other commentators as they either ignore what others say in reply or write a reply that ignores what they said. In either case it is ignorant, anti-social, annoying to read, and will often result in a banning so that others don’t have to read the comments of someone living with their sense organs turned off.”
There has been many comparisons made between the very different political situation in the UK and NZ.
Is it really very different?
The Tories, from all parties, have been fucking over the UK for as long as they have been here and with the same effect of ever increasing poverty and declining civilisation.
From what I see you’re talking out your arse again to help the National Party spin.
Watched my way though it. Corbyn is as you say quietly confident and gently witty; but two thoughts:
1. I do wonder at how receptive the French and German’s might be to his idea’s around Brexit. All the indications from the other side of the channel are that ‘out means out’ … with precious little wriggle room.
2. The Tories will re-group and May won’t be allowed anywhere near another election; how would Corbyn fare against say Boris Johnstone?
And to be fair, when the left pushes all the focus onto collective responsibility we fall over as well. A political model that merges strong personal AND social values, one that plays to the strengths of both without descending into beige, managerial centrism seems to elude us.
A long time back I was fumbling about with the idea that the missing component in modern political ideology was the idea of strong community. That society could be imagined as a three-legged stool balancing on the pillars the individual, social and state responsibilities. Each complementing the other in a stable arrangement that both neo-liberalism and marxism have manifestly failed to achieve.
Edit: Odious as Chris Leslie’s comment was, it’s true that May’s abysmal campaign was an ‘open goal’. While I agree with you at heart, it’s a mistake to underestimate the challenge ahead.
Leslie: “My worry is, if I was to serve in the shadow cabinet there would come a moment where something would come up which I would disagree with, and these are my principles, whether it is to do with security or the running of the economy. I might have to then resign”.
😆
Somehow I think he’d manage to dig deep and find a way not to.
That society could be imagined as a three-legged stool balancing on the pillars the individual, social and state responsibilities. Each complementing the other in a stable arrangement that both neo-liberalism and marxism have manifestly failed to achieve.
Is there really a ‘state’ component?
An individual cannot survive without society and society doesn’t exist without the individuals.
This means that society needs to support the individuals to be their best while the individuals support society. This is a cycle of both individual and collective responsibility.
I get what you’re saying DtB. But historically the two pole model you describe in terms of individual and collective responsibility, has proven unstable. The balance swings too widely between extremes.
It may be a crude analogy, but consciously introducing a third leg in the model, allows for a far more stable, sustainable society that is the sum of individual, community and state action.
The distinction I have in mind between community and the state is this; the state is allocated formal institutional roles and wields considerable, if often blunt, power. It firmly grasps the legal, economic and long-term generational levers that both coerce and shape society.
By contrast the notion of a healthy community invokes the far more fluid, voluntary associations of people, expressed in hugely diverse ways. It creates the frameworks in which people find identity, meaning and purpose in their lives. And arguably both marxists and capitalists have historically acted to diminish and degrade our natural human communities, isolating and alienating, in order to distort social power towards an all-powerful state.
The problem that I have with the three tier system is that people tend to divorce themselves from the state and when that happens the state becomes other. Then the RWNJs come in and say that ‘the state’ is stealing from us, that it’s telling us what to do and other similar lies.
We have to accept that we are the state, that we are the community.
“I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.”
Thatcher’s point was that selfishness ruled.
Selfishness and the greed that it entails only ever destroys.
And a right winger will make the exact same claim substituting the word ‘collective’ for ‘individual’; and degenerates from there into a stale old argument.
I get where you are coming from, modern science is uncovering more and more around the deep and intricate connections that shape our values, beliefs and emotional responses. The Dunedin Longitudinal Study remarkably leaps to the top of my mind in this respect.
Yet the notion of the individual remains deeply embedded in our consciousness. The notions of human dignity, compassion and empathy are all essentially personal concepts. Despite widely shared environments, we each demonstrate a remarkable diversity of personality and character. We each have our dreams, our loves and griefs. And no matter how intimate we are with each other, there remains a barrier between our minds we can never overpass.
Nor has any human society ever erased all individuality and shaped itself into one collective hive mind. I’m not so quick to discard this notion as you are.
Where did the ‘hive mind’ notion come from?
Certainly not from me.
modern science is uncovering more and more around the deep and intricate connections that shape our values, beliefs and emotional responses.
Yes, it is. However, while it certainly supports my position, I’m not relying on it.
Instead, look at the phrase itself and how it is used: the ‘self-attribution’ and ‘just world’ fallacies articulated in two words. It means that poor people are poor by choice. It means that rich people are wealthy by merit.
It means that colonised people deserve it.
And of course, when you look at it that way it’s little more than a dog-whistle.
We are probably close to being technically capable of implementing 100% ubiquitous surveillance of every persons every action and conversation, 24/7/365 for their entire lives. And then make the record 100% available in the public domain.
It would have massive, socially trans-formative value in terms of political and economic transparency and might lead to the virtual elimination of crime of all kinds. Especially those kinds of sexual crimes which are so hard to obtain evidence for.
Of course almost everyone viscerally objects to such a scheme. But why? Is it something to do with our sense of self? Why do we value privacy so highly?
A couple of reasons that occur right away, apart from the overriding right to privacy which should stand on principle:
1. There would need to be complete trust in the system that collates, collects and sorts the data. This is so unlikely it would be considered impossible.
2. Societal mores and values are not the same, across countries, let alone communities and neighbourhoods, even if there are culturally homogeneous demographics. Transparency about voting, sexual orientation and practices, as well as other “legal” choices of the population may well have negative impacts as those choices become known to their political representatives, employers, friends and family – destroying the connections that can be made when no preconceptions have influenced opinion.
3. Most importantly, it won’t have the outcomes you envision: ” virtual elimination of crime of all kinds. Especially those kinds of sexual crimes which are so hard to obtain evidence for.”. Until the power systems currently in play are dismantled, this collection of data would likely lead to more exploitation, more coercion, more consolidation of power, and worse.
1. There would need to be complete trust in the system that collates, collects and sorts the data. This is so unlikely it would be considered impossible.
Have you noticed the amount of data that is given freely and without question to Google, Facebook and other online businesses?
Seems that complete trust is very easy to obtain.
3. Most importantly, it won’t have the outcomes you envision: ” virtual elimination of crime of all kinds. Especially those kinds of sexual crimes which are so hard to obtain evidence for.”. Until the power systems currently in play are dismantled, this collection of data would likely lead to more exploitation, more coercion, more consolidation of power, and worse.
You need to split this into three points:
1. The collection of the data which is done by computer
2. The analysis of the data which is also done by computer to produce information
3. Access to the information to make decisions which is done by people
You’ll note that that last point can be very tightly controlled and monitored. Anyone abusing the system will be caught.
Now, that’s not to say that there won’t be some people involved in setting it up in the first place who will be thinking about ways that it can be exploited. What we need there is processes and checks to prevent that happening. hard to do but it can be done and if any one does abuse the system they will be caught.
The big question is where is the point between public and private data and then gather that which is public.
For me, personal responsibility is important. It’s what gets me turning my garden over for next season’s vegetables rather than going fishing.
I think it’s an attitude that falls flat when I try and tell others what their personal responsibilities should be. When this happens my recommendations would be a description of what I believe my responsibilities are. The flaw is the belief that what works for me should be adopted by others.
Personal responsibility can’t be pushed onto others, it ceases to be personal, we need to discover it for ourselves.
Yes, chance plays a part. My age, parents and the weather. Aspects that are best worked around. I’m concerned with the outcomes I can direct with my choices. My vocation, income, partner, home, the frequency of my visits to hug my lovely old Mum.
If I felt that I had no control over these matters I think I’d spend my life chatting in here and making do with what gets chucked my way. I prove I have a degree of control every day.
Ha! I just glimpsed an imaginary mirror. I should be ringing potential customers, later.
It’s a seductive belief, for sure. One that is used, on occasion to justify acts of Parliament that deny funds to solo parents. It can be seen in our approach to welfare in general.
In the courts, it shows itself in systemic measurable bias in sentencing.
In the media, it shows up in hate speech about ‘bludgers’ and stories about beneficiaries on the roof.
Not a benign belief then. In fact it’s highly political.
Hi garibaldi, there may well be a better way. I do as my Dad showed me, fold in some horse poo etc, a 70’s approach.
OAM I think that leads us back to my original point. Personal responsibility is something we need to discover for ourselves. When it’s somebody else’s, it’s just that, not personal. An imposed responsibility.
Ha! It’s your back I’m most concerned about 🙂 Backs, knees and hips don’t function smoothly forever, especially for old blokes who applied themselves vigorously to heavy tasks when they were younger. There are other ways to manage vege gardens, but I’m not going to challenge the wisdom of anyone’s father. My own daughter, raised in a forest garden where leaf-fall does most of the soil preparation for me, digs her garden in readiness for planting. I applaud it all. If you’re gardening at all, you’re on the right side of the ledger 🙂
At one level the need for “personal responsibility” is just a simple truism that everyone agrees with – it’s what distinguishes an adult from a child. We pester our children to do their teeth (so they don’t get decay). do their homework (so they get the best results they can), tidy their room (so someone else doesn’t have to do it).
The problem is when it gets used by the right as a political bludgeon against people who have problems and who need help. Sometimes the problems are of their own making and sometimes not and most often it’s a mixture of the two. In these circumstances the accusation of failing to show “personal responsibility” is used as a reason for denying help. The real agenda is always to deny the help (and maybe get a tax cut out of reduced social welfare spending), rather than any particular belief in the concept of personal responsibility itself. They are, for example never engaged in self-reflection on the matter of personal responsibility, they are always flinging accusations at others.
Actually – a good rule of thumb when RW types talk about their “principles” is to see if the logical outcome of those principles would be a tax cut for the person professing them. If so, it’s plain they are not principles at all – merely disguised expressions of self-interest
Note carefully how in this instance the money was targeted at the right wings of the NSW LP and ALP; the softest underbelly of the lot.
It’s one thing to project ‘soft power’; all large nations do it. But the CCCP runs a totalitarian state, with a very dodgy and opaque human rights record. Pretending otherwise, and allowing them access to covertly manipulate our political process has to raise big, bright red, flapping flags.
The Age article is on the back of the ABC 4 Corners program in conjunction with Fairfax media from last Monday night. The both Fairfax dailys and the Australian have been running with this since last Monday. Tonight 4 corners is the Fitzgerald inquiry into the Queensland police corruption under Sir Johwhich I think is the 30th anniversary this year. On a wee side note this was reason my folks moved to NZ in 1974 as I believe my dad had a wee run in with QPol a few times around Albion and the Valley when were workclass areas.
I wouldn’t be surprised the Chinese have their fingers in pie in to donations in NZ atm. I believe there was meant to a inquiry in the dumping of cheap low quality Chinese steel that was being use in the construction industry by NZ Government and the Chinese responded by saying they will restrict dairy products etc and it was the same with the legal and illegal Chinese tourist companies (fly by night/dodgy operators) employing Chinese people without the right qualifications and the under payment of wages so they can avoid hiring NZ workers at award rates etc.
About all I can take from all the “outsider” successes all the way across the political spectrum is the public likes sincere conviction politicians with a coherent vision they are prepared to stand up and argue for. Or can at least fake it convincingly.
“Centrist elite liberalism strikes back! Macron’s party wins big.”
______________________________________________________________________________
From your Daily Beast opinion piece
After the first round of voting on Sunday his party, which didn’t exist until last year, is set to win an overwhelming majority of seats in the the National Assembly.
In an era when extremes of left and right have come to dominate the political landscape (take a look at the British elections), suddenly there stands before us a paladin of the extreme middle whose campaign slogan was unabashedly “neither left nor right,” and who now has an overwhelming electoral and legislative mandate for his five-year term in office.
“Now has an overwhelming electoral mandate” !!!!!!!!
Macron’s ‘Sensible Centrists’ must be really popular with the French public ! … How much did they get ? … Must have been at least 50 to 60% of the First Round vote in order to provoke shrieks of excitement like “Macron’s party wins big !”, “Centrist elite liberalism strikes back!”, and “overwhelming mandate ! “ ?
Whoa !!! … Hang on a moment ! … What the Pope’s Piss ?????
I’ve just read that, in fact, Macron’s ‘Extreme-Middle Sensible-Centrists’ received a grand total of 28% of the vote – 6m out of 22m … Even if you add Centrist Democratic Movement (MoDem) support – that’s still less than a third of the vote !!! – and on an historically low turnout as well – so, in fact, 32% of the 48% who bothered to vote.
Oh I dunno, it seems kind of in the spirit of the times. Y’know, like lauding Corbyn’s results as the coming of the Messiah even though Labour only got 40% of the vote and the Conservatives are about to form the government again after winning 50-odd more seats than Labour.
Aren’t you going to poke shit at me for neglecting to mention the real results won’t actually come until the second round coz only 4 seats were actually decided in the first round?
I don’t have an issue with it either, just that the public should get more out of the ‘investment’ than some unmeasured benefit to elite, yachty tourism.
Let me get this straight.
Some power companies have had their maintenance deficiencies pointed out to them.
They are going to spend lots of money on infrastructure.
To do this they are seeking permission to put up prices.
What the dickens is the line charge on the power bill for?
How much are the chief executives being paid in these organisations?
How much ‘profit’ have they returned to the shareholders over the years?
we should take the lines back , most of the lines in remote areas where built by the locals then taken by stealth so a few can profit , the lines company in the king country are the biggest crooks out .
absolutely we should take back what our parents and grandparents paid for.
and not stop there.
the generator companies as well.
some things should not be profitted fiscally from.
“What the dickens is the line charge on the power bill for?”
The power generators are separate from the local lines companies and the main grid ( Transpower)
Count the power poles in the street, the substations, the maintenance crews who have to repair it when lines are down or transformers fail. I my area they have ongoing power undergrounding in some areas and along busy roads – very expensive to do
What the dickens is the line charge on the power bill for?
Maintaining the infrastructure. As they haven’t actually done that these companies should be charged and fined fined several million dollars and the lines renationalised.
How much are the chief executives being paid in these organisations?
How much ‘profit’ have they returned to the shareholders over the years?
Obviously far too much and they’ve failed to provide the service that they were employed for. In most circles this is called theft.
I agree, if a fundamental expense like maintenance isn’t included in the operational budget there should be no dividends to shareholders. Until all the overheads have been addressed there is no profit to share.
If we are going that way it leaves the road open for me to attach a note to my rates.
“Dear Council, I’ve had some maintenance issues arise at my property so I have deducted my expenditure from my rates payment, please see attached receipts.”
A few days after this August 11 meeting, Liu Chaoying wired $300,000 into Taiwan-born Chung’s account. Some of this money ended up in the coffers of the Democrat’s Clinton re-election campaign in breach of US laws banning foreign political donations.
This transaction later became the focus of US criminal and congressional investigations into a major political scandal dubbed Chinagate by the US media. It was part of a broad Chinese plan to influence American politics to favour Beijing’s acquisition of sensitive, advanced technology.
Which is, of course, why the US, like most countries, doesn’t allow foreign political donations. A foreign country should not have influence in a states politics.
The US also doesn’t allow military equipment to be made offshore either for the same reason as well as national defence.
What an amazing crew. The kids were, well, naughty, but you could see how the whole process was affecting them in really positive ways. And then to hear that the YMCA had all its funding withdrawn immediately after for making waves, was heartbreaking.
its a great watch – it shows some really talented and driven teachers who go beyond what is normally called for, and some kids who we, as a society have consigned to the bin. Its messy, and doesn’t hide from it.
Highly recommended, and is being considered for inclusion in the NZ Film Festival this year.
I really don’t think you have to worry too much about low lying area’s my old bean…
Global warming / Climate change is a globalist hoax, – specifically , – one put out and financed by the Bilderbergers….. and why ?… because all carbon tax would have been collected and redistributed into their banks. Those poor old Bilderbergers… they are gnashing their teeth at Trump right this very moment….
Anyways… make a cuppa and enjoy a ginger-nut and have a wee listen to Lord Monckton for a bit…
Global Warming Fraud – Lord Christopher Monckton Before … – YouTube
Video for lord monckton disproves climate change 2017 youtube▶ 26:41
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
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There has been many comparisons made between the very different political situation in the UK and NZ.
There is no doubt that Jeremy Corbyn had a great campaign. His Labour party was ultimately unsuccessful, but Corbyn should have at least secured himself as leader, a major shift from recent rifts in the party.
Can Andrew Little do something similar here? I think that it will take a major change of approach, because there is night and day between Corbyn’s self confidence, straight talking and authenticity and Little’s well rehearsed and often poorly delivered performances.
Can Little and Labour switch to the Corbyn approach? Should they try three months out from our election?
I thought that Little promoted himself as a straight talker, but he comes across more like a media managed puppet. A similar conflict wrecked David Shearer’s leadership.
Repeating the same failed approach is not doing a lot for Little or Labour at the moment.
Lol. Right wingers: one day it’s ‘Corbyn’s a nutter, be less like him’. The next, ‘Corbyn’s a genius, be more like him’.
Still dripping with beige venom and malice though, innit.
And obsessed with turning politics into a leaders’ popularity contest. When Corbyn’s asked why Labour increased their vote so much he points to their manifesto, and that is the real lesson of the UK election.
Centrism is over.
Another thing that turns people off politics and off parties is negative attack politics. It’s stupidly counterproductive.
So why have you set up a political poison pen blog to do it? I’ve never asked anyone to vote for me.
Yes dear, harden up petey and stop acting like a precious flower when we all know youre a weed on the kiwi political blogosphere.
Yep Mr oily brown judgment judges with spin designed to support his gnat masters. One thing Little has that George cannot even comprehend is authenticity and honesty. Every beige blurt is packed with untruths and dishonesty as he tries to hobble the left in the guise of helping. You are too slow, too dim and too self absorbed Pete – we know your smelly game bub.
‘Beige blurt,’
I laughed, a lot!
Centrism might be over for the left. Not that activists ever embraced it anyway.
But I am pretty sure that is where National will stay. We will soon know whether it continues to work for National. I do appreciate that OAB thinks National is actually extreme rabid right, but no serious commentator thinks that.
It’s the Overton window, innit.
I can see the rabies of the right in the child poverty and homelessness statistics. The cruelty. The corruption. The attacks on human rights and the rule of law. The suicide statistics.
So I don’t really care what you call it: centrism is a good enough word for callous greed and sophistry.
Spot on OAB.
The right thinks that throwing a few crumbs to the hoi polloi whilst letting business overrun and control everything is Centrism. People matter…. something the right can’t grasp. It’s time the pendulum swung towards the people.
well said.
Yep – the Overton window defines the limits of ‘acceptable’ thought.
The last 35 years have been highly regressive by shifting that window substantially to the right. I’m beginning to dare to believe that I can hear the sclerotic, rusted hinges squeak as it starts its return journey.
You still think Neo-liberal extremisim, is “centrist”?
I suppose I have to give you points for believing your own bullshit.
Or maybe that is what is so scary. The authors of the Neo-liberal fuckup still believe they are right, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Corbyn has exposed what the majority really want. And it is not spivs and opportunists running away with the money, while the rest of us, struggle.
Heard of Overtons window?
If you believe in neoliberal economics you’re centrist.
Once this extreme ideology is discarded, it’s believers like Wayne will be seen for what they are.
Fundamentalists.
You’re confusing two things.
It’s still highly debatable whether taking NZ Labour to the left, as Corbyn has done with UK Labour, would succeed. He campaigned well, but that’s in large part because of a dumb move by May to call a snap election, and a very poor campaign by May.
Most compliments of Corbyn are that he came across as genuine and authentic, regardless of his policies he believed in them and was confident in promoting them. Some still criticised the leftness of his policies, but applauded his straight talking.
I think the lesson here is for any politician of any leaning.
The age of over managed media messaging is over. Voters want to hear what leaders believe in, they want to gauge their convictions and abilities from seeing them as they are, not as some PR caricature.
Even Trump’s success can be put down to enough voters thinking he said things as he saw them, as flawed as his messages were.
Trump and Corbyn are very different, but at least they put themselves out there as they are, warts and all.
Voters judge people, and get turned off by political PR, they don’t like it and don’t trust it.
”He campaigned well, but that’s in large part because of a dumb move by May to call a snap election, and a very poor campaign by May.”
Add to that many pissed off voters having to drag themselves to the polls again.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious many on this site don’t get.
Hey, Blade, just for you on yesterday’s Open Mike
12 June 2017 at 8:59 pm
Corbyn’s sincerity plays well against the economic outcomes generated by his opponents, all of whom have promised great things, none of which have succeeded.
His restraint from negative campaigning also came across as classy, again, the contrast provided by the low tactics of the Murdoch media highlighted the character difference.
It doesn’t hurt that he has a program that will probably work. We’re all sick of non-performing pretenders.
” but that’s in large part because of a dumb move by May to call a snap election, and a very poor campaign by May”
Pete , pete, pete.
Why then did May get 42%, the highest vote for conservatives since the thatcher years ? Her campaign was right on target and boosted Tory votes. They were something like 60 votes from a bare majority.
Just labours approach was better as they jumped 10%
“… one day it’s ‘Corbyn’s a nutter, be less like him’. The next, ‘Corbyn’s a genius, be more like him’…”
Unless you are Josie Pagani, whose latest piece of neolib claptrap is to claim Corbyn would have won if he had only not alienated the Blairites in his caucus.
Those poor, defenceless wee morsels of the UK PLP, so put upon by those wretched, beastly Corbynistas.
Pagani does not speak for Labour
She speaks for her own selfish interests only.
So why does she get air time? She’s a bloody moron. Seems to me they only use her to bait lefties.
Because they present her as a “centre-left” commentator, which makes her safely within the narrow boundaries that neoliberals wish to debate politics.
She gets air time on TV because she has a “TV face”. That is, she comes across as attractive. She talks a load of gobbledygook most of the time but gets away with it because she’s articulate in the way she says it. Finally she’s spent years cultivating media people who are useful to her.
In other words she’s a fake who has set herself up as some sort of Think Tank guru but as far as I can tell she has no actual qualifications for the job.
The corporate media owned by billionaires and merchant banks want her to be seen as left.
She is a useful idiot to them.
Her excuse – money?
If we want to start getting worked up about your so-called friends being your worst enemies, what about this piece of claptrap?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/93487852/chris-trotter-labour-a-seething-cauldron-of-thwarted-ambitions-petty-jealousies-and-unresolved-grievances
The mafia metaphor is a bit fanciful, but fundamentally I agree with Trotter.
Compare and contrast Corbyn’s revitalised UKLP with a surge of 150,000 new members since the election … now over 800,000 in total and heading towards a million … with an NZLP that is almost absent in whole swathes of NZ life.
NZLP had it’s Corbyn moment with Cunliffe.
Again with the personality politics. Corbyn would be nothing without that manifesto to work with.
NZ Labour hasn’t yet published its 2017 election manifesto and already you’re all but writing them off.
True. I’m guilty of using names (Corbyn, Sanders, Cunliffe, etc) as a cheap shortcut to expressing a massive shift in manifesto and values. So yeah that’s the crappy side of personality politics.
Equally you cannot entirely erase who Corbyn and Sanders are as people. It’s not just a question of ‘direct and authentic’; John Key managed to fake that brilliantly for years. It really comes down to an entire political lifetime of coherent belief and action.
…just like Turei, Shaw and Little.
As an aside, I don’t notice anyone complaining about UK Labour’s manifesto being “fully costed”, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the ‘budget responsibility’ rules here in NZ.
@OAB +100
Lets see what is in Labour’s September 23 manifesto and judge them on that, not on the venom spouted by Edwards/Watkin/Trotter/George etc
Labour has an opportunity to make a real difference in promising targeted spending on housing/education/health/public transport/environment/WFF/Cullen fund given the surpluses now forecast .
Little comes over to me as honest. English/Joyce/Smith/Bennett come over to me as devious. I think the voters will pick this.
All well and good. I bloody well hope the NZLP puts up a bold manifesto that represents a real break with their neo-lib past, and truly resonates with that large mass of voters who stopped listening years back.
But this habit of bi-polar thinking the solution to all political problems is either policy OR personality is weirdly unhelpful. Is it too much to ask for the NZLP to not only put up a manifesto we can believe in, but leaders and spokespeople who sound like THEY believe in it too?
@Red
Agree with all that. BTW I should definitely have had Brownlee on that list after his shocking display on Morning Report this morning re Israel.
RedLogix
Which really worked for Labour.
Just goes to show that the UK situation cannot be seamlessly transferred to NZ.
No-one ever imagined the two situations mapped directly onto each other; for a start NZ (and some credit is due National) has not gone through almost a decade of pointlessly brutal austerity. Nor have we had anything remotely as destabilising as the entire Brexit debacle.
But while the proximate events and timing are different, the trends are similar. Our housing crisis, low wages, high costs, widespread precarious employment, stressed health and education sectors are all heading firmly in the wrong direction for far too many kiwis. Fundamentally the gap between those doing just fine, and those trapped into a dead-end poverty of opportunity and mean grinding lives is just too large.
Whether this widening economic and class gap becomes the live wire of this election is hard to predict. If nothing else Corbyn has proved that campaigns still matter and a week is still a long time in politics.
@ PG
I don’t have much quibble with your post at face value. It’s your timing and motives that feel sucky.
I’m on record here as a strong supporter of left-wing figures like Cunliffe, Sanders and Corbyn pretty much from the outset. I attended Rod Donald’s memorial service at Parliament years back, and still feel the sense of unjust loss. I’m proud that Helen Clark is a kiwi and great memories of several personal encounters with her. Earlier I recall with some pleasure a private and casual lunch with David Lange. And while Gareth Morgan isn’t everyone’s cup of tea around here; I like his willingness to put novel and interesting policy up for public debate … in this same direct and unrehearsed manner.
Most compliments of Corbyn are that he came across as genuine and authentic, regardless of his policies he believed in them and was confident in promoting them. Some still criticised the leftness of his policies, but applauded his straight talking.
I think the lesson here is for any politician of any leaning.
Personally I feel comfortable in my political skin; but when I read your comment above I really don’t get the same sense. Maybe you are the best person to answer why not.
Helen Clark is a good person to bring up – she was widely respected in politics due I think to here wide and in depth knowledge of policies and issues, and the forthright way she expressed herself. She came across as authentic and believable and trustworthy.
John Key had a very different style but was also very popular (obviously not here but overall).
Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe and Little have all had problems with emulating successful party leaders and Prime Ministers. I think that’s a significant reason why Labour has struggled to rebuild support.
I agree on Gareth Morgan, he is passionate and well informed and says things without PR manipulation. A welcome addition to election options.
I’m not the best person to answer why you think my comment feels “sucky”.
The timing is because it is a very topical issue following the UK election. Bryce Edwards ddevoted his column yesterday to it, I provided the link.
Lessons to be learned from Corbyn and the UK election are a major talking point in politics here at the moment.
Do you think the timing of all of that discussion is sucky?
It’s a reasonable discussion – though you’re probably not the leading choice for chair.
But Clark in no way resembles Corbyn, she was highly autocratic to the degree that some blame her for a leadership vacuum subsequent to her departure.
Corbyn has a different leadership paradigm – he welcomes the opinions and energies of new members and they got him elected.
NZ Labour remains oligarchic, though it is a conspicuously better oligarchy than it was, it isn’t ready to trust supporters to influence policy.
The future is promising for NZ Labour chiefly because the current government is a shambles as absolute any gods-forsaken third world hellhole.
The same thing will almost certainly happen with Corbyn as he establishes his power base. Having colleagues attacking you directly and indirectly as happened to Clark (eg Goff barbecue), Goff (think of some of the daft faction fighting), Lange (Douglas et al) etc etc. For that matter in National with Muldoon, Mclay, Bolger, English etc, The defections and take over attempts in NZ first. The Stringer coup in the Conservatives.
Corbyn and pile of other leaders after any of these kinds of factional attacks tend to have the obvious defensive reaction to minimize the exposure to attack long after they are aren’t happening. It especially shows up after they have more control over their environment. So far it has been shadow ministers leaving. Soon it will be particular shadow cabinet members getting shuffled to where they are less of a danger.
Similarly with movements within the party. Because you can guarantee that the victorious in the internecine wars are seldom good winners.
He may avoid it for a while.
“I’m the most forgiving guy in the world” from OAB’s link show’s he’s well aware of the issue.
His supporters may be less forgiving however.
What do you think of the timing and motives of the OAM and MM responses here?
OK so my invitation to some self-reflection has been turned down. I think the problem you are creating for yourself here is that if you want to be on the side of ‘authentic and genuine’ you have a fair old credibility hurdle to leap over. That’s what OAB and mm are reacting to.
Here’s the thing PG … I’d be delighted to see you make that leap.
Personally I feel comfortable in my political and social media skin. I question the motives of those who attack me personally, presumably trying to divert from the issues raised.
Funny that you ask me to “self-reflect” while giving OAB and mm a free pass.
You asked about my motives – my primary motive has always been to promote cross party and cross blog discussion on topical political and social issues.
And I stand up to those who try to trash decent discussion. Politics has long been dirty but I think social media, political blogs at least, could set a much better example. Obviously some people want to stick to dirt.
[RL: Trying to invoke moderation on the sly is one of your less attractive gambits.]
What do I need a free pass for? Accurately describing your comment as “dripping with beige venom and malice”?
Take your poison pen and stick it in your eye to keep the beam company.
[RL: I don’t need PG to prompt me into moderating … as much as I’m reluctant to do it these days… but you’ve stepped over the line many times before and copped warnings and bans. Sooner or later someone, probably not me, will run out of patience.]
“Personally I feel comfortable in my political and social media skin.”
Rhino hide, more like. Impenetrable to suggestions and there are plenty made here. If, as you claim, your “primary motive has always been to promote cross party and cross blog discussion on topical political and social issues.”, then a little introspection should show you that your approach is far from “promotional”, more confrontational and irritating. I suppose you will see yourself as an pearl-maker, but Pete, that makes you grit and grit’s never appreciated by oysters, any living thing with eyelids and mucus membranes, or wearers of shoes.
What about sandals Robert?
I’m pretty sure he doesn’t wear them, but if he did, it would be with knee-high socks.
Pete George reminds me of the Guardian coverage of Corbyn.
“Don’t change my comfortable life by making things better for those who are not part of the establishment”, while pretending to be leftish.
people who think they are the ‘political elite’ in New Zealand, just like the UK, are very uncomfortable with “disruptors” that hold a mirror to their own lack of effective action.
good point. It’s a real problem. Probably applies to centrists too, who always distrust the edge because the edge always drags them closer.
What a tragic troll you are.
Given the number of times (which is a lot) you reply with the word troll – without actually adding to the conversation actually makes you one:
“Similarly if you act like a machine (ie a troll) you will be treated as one – a form of spambot. A troll is generally defined on this site as someone who clearly isn’t bothering to engage their brain when commenting. The standard is that the troll could be replaced with a dictionary of lines and phrases, and no-one would know the difference. Typically trolls do not interact with other commentators as they either ignore what others say in reply or write a reply that ignores what they said. In either case it is ignorant, anti-social, annoying to read, and will often result in a banning so that others don’t have to read the comments of someone living with their sense organs turned off.”
You don’t like being called out, do you?
So, Andrew Little lacks authenticity and should emulate Jeremy Corbyn’s bold and authentic approach? Spot the contradiction.
No.
Yes.
Is it really very different?
The Tories, from all parties, have been fucking over the UK for as long as they have been here and with the same effect of ever increasing poverty and declining civilisation.
From what I see you’re talking out your arse again to help the National Party spin.
Corbyn interview.
Worth seeing if you like quiet confidence and wit 🙂
Watched my way though it. Corbyn is as you say quietly confident and gently witty; but two thoughts:
1. I do wonder at how receptive the French and German’s might be to his idea’s around Brexit. All the indications from the other side of the channel are that ‘out means out’ … with precious little wriggle room.
2. The Tories will re-group and May won’t be allowed anywhere near another election; how would Corbyn fare against say Boris Johnstone?
As I said. I think the focus on individual personalities is a right wing frame: that’s why Poison Peter employs it.
Johnson would have all the same ‘advantages’ as May, plus his own qualities. The one crucial thing he wouldn’t have is UK Labour’s manifesto.
Also, there was talk of Johnson being unacceptable to powerful Tory factions. Nothing the prospect of defeat couldn’t fix?
In any event, “Corbyn vs. Johnson” entirely misses the point, because the contest is between two wildly different sets of values.
Edit: pretty sure ‘Jezzer’ would more than hold his own against Boris anyway – after all, he has youth on his side 🙂
And to be fair, when the left pushes all the focus onto collective responsibility we fall over as well. A political model that merges strong personal AND social values, one that plays to the strengths of both without descending into beige, managerial centrism seems to elude us.
A long time back I was fumbling about with the idea that the missing component in modern political ideology was the idea of strong community. That society could be imagined as a three-legged stool balancing on the pillars the individual, social and state responsibilities. Each complementing the other in a stable arrangement that both neo-liberalism and marxism have manifestly failed to achieve.
Edit: Odious as Chris Leslie’s comment was, it’s true that May’s abysmal campaign was an ‘open goal’. While I agree with you at heart, it’s a mistake to underestimate the challenge ahead.
Leslie: “My worry is, if I was to serve in the shadow cabinet there would come a moment where something would come up which I would disagree with, and these are my principles, whether it is to do with security or the running of the economy. I might have to then resign”.
😆
Somehow I think he’d manage to dig deep and find a way not to.
Is there really a ‘state’ component?
An individual cannot survive without society and society doesn’t exist without the individuals.
This means that society needs to support the individuals to be their best while the individuals support society. This is a cycle of both individual and collective responsibility.
I get what you’re saying DtB. But historically the two pole model you describe in terms of individual and collective responsibility, has proven unstable. The balance swings too widely between extremes.
It may be a crude analogy, but consciously introducing a third leg in the model, allows for a far more stable, sustainable society that is the sum of individual, community and state action.
The distinction I have in mind between community and the state is this; the state is allocated formal institutional roles and wields considerable, if often blunt, power. It firmly grasps the legal, economic and long-term generational levers that both coerce and shape society.
By contrast the notion of a healthy community invokes the far more fluid, voluntary associations of people, expressed in hugely diverse ways. It creates the frameworks in which people find identity, meaning and purpose in their lives. And arguably both marxists and capitalists have historically acted to diminish and degrade our natural human communities, isolating and alienating, in order to distort social power towards an all-powerful state.
The problem that I have with the three tier system is that people tend to divorce themselves from the state and when that happens the state becomes other. Then the RWNJs come in and say that ‘the state’ is stealing from us, that it’s telling us what to do and other similar lies.
We have to accept that we are the state, that we are the community.
“There is no such thing as society” almost – just “we”!
Of course there is such a thing as society – we make it when we gather into a community.
I’m pretty sure that was Thatcher’s point DTB!
No, it wasn’t.
Thatcher’s point was that selfishness ruled.
Selfishness and the greed that it entails only ever destroys.
Problem is that personal responsibility doesn’t actually exist as anything more than a rhetorical device.
No wonder any world view that includes it fails
And a right winger will make the exact same claim substituting the word ‘collective’ for ‘individual’; and degenerates from there into a stale old argument.
I get where you are coming from, modern science is uncovering more and more around the deep and intricate connections that shape our values, beliefs and emotional responses. The Dunedin Longitudinal Study remarkably leaps to the top of my mind in this respect.
Yet the notion of the individual remains deeply embedded in our consciousness. The notions of human dignity, compassion and empathy are all essentially personal concepts. Despite widely shared environments, we each demonstrate a remarkable diversity of personality and character. We each have our dreams, our loves and griefs. And no matter how intimate we are with each other, there remains a barrier between our minds we can never overpass.
Nor has any human society ever erased all individuality and shaped itself into one collective hive mind. I’m not so quick to discard this notion as you are.
Where did the ‘hive mind’ notion come from?
Certainly not from me.
Yes, it is. However, while it certainly supports my position, I’m not relying on it.
Instead, look at the phrase itself and how it is used: the ‘self-attribution’ and ‘just world’ fallacies articulated in two words. It means that poor people are poor by choice. It means that rich people are wealthy by merit.
It means that colonised people deserve it.
And of course, when you look at it that way it’s little more than a dog-whistle.
OK so here is a thought experiment.
We are probably close to being technically capable of implementing 100% ubiquitous surveillance of every persons every action and conversation, 24/7/365 for their entire lives. And then make the record 100% available in the public domain.
It would have massive, socially trans-formative value in terms of political and economic transparency and might lead to the virtual elimination of crime of all kinds. Especially those kinds of sexual crimes which are so hard to obtain evidence for.
Of course almost everyone viscerally objects to such a scheme. But why? Is it something to do with our sense of self? Why do we value privacy so highly?
For RedLogix above:
A couple of reasons that occur right away, apart from the overriding right to privacy which should stand on principle:
1. There would need to be complete trust in the system that collates, collects and sorts the data. This is so unlikely it would be considered impossible.
2. Societal mores and values are not the same, across countries, let alone communities and neighbourhoods, even if there are culturally homogeneous demographics. Transparency about voting, sexual orientation and practices, as well as other “legal” choices of the population may well have negative impacts as those choices become known to their political representatives, employers, friends and family – destroying the connections that can be made when no preconceptions have influenced opinion.
3. Most importantly, it won’t have the outcomes you envision: ” virtual elimination of crime of all kinds. Especially those kinds of sexual crimes which are so hard to obtain evidence for.”. Until the power systems currently in play are dismantled, this collection of data would likely lead to more exploitation, more coercion, more consolidation of power, and worse.
@ Molly
Have you noticed the amount of data that is given freely and without question to Google, Facebook and other online businesses?
Seems that complete trust is very easy to obtain.
You need to split this into three points:
1. The collection of the data which is done by computer
2. The analysis of the data which is also done by computer to produce information
3. Access to the information to make decisions which is done by people
You’ll note that that last point can be very tightly controlled and monitored. Anyone abusing the system will be caught.
Now, that’s not to say that there won’t be some people involved in setting it up in the first place who will be thinking about ways that it can be exploited. What we need there is processes and checks to prevent that happening. hard to do but it can be done and if any one does abuse the system they will be caught.
The big question is where is the point between public and private data and then gather that which is public.
For me, personal responsibility is important. It’s what gets me turning my garden over for next season’s vegetables rather than going fishing.
I think it’s an attitude that falls flat when I try and tell others what their personal responsibilities should be. When this happens my recommendations would be a description of what I believe my responsibilities are. The flaw is the belief that what works for me should be adopted by others.
Personal responsibility can’t be pushed onto others, it ceases to be personal, we need to discover it for ourselves.
Your character and situation are not of your own making. We all owe far too much to circumstance to start claiming credit.
Not that there’s anything wrong with growing veggies 🙂
Yes, chance plays a part. My age, parents and the weather. Aspects that are best worked around. I’m concerned with the outcomes I can direct with my choices. My vocation, income, partner, home, the frequency of my visits to hug my lovely old Mum.
If I felt that I had no control over these matters I think I’d spend my life chatting in here and making do with what gets chucked my way. I prove I have a degree of control every day.
Ha! I just glimpsed an imaginary mirror. I should be ringing potential customers, later.
It’s a seductive belief, for sure. One that is used, on occasion to justify acts of Parliament that deny funds to solo parents. It can be seen in our approach to welfare in general.
In the courts, it shows itself in systemic measurable bias in sentencing.
In the media, it shows up in hate speech about ‘bludgers’ and stories about beneficiaries on the roof.
Not a benign belief then. In fact it’s highly political.
DM. Don’t take offence but you shouldn’t turn your garden over, it upsets the flora/fauna balance. Ask Robert Guyton if you don’t believe me.
Hi garibaldi, there may well be a better way. I do as my Dad showed me, fold in some horse poo etc, a 70’s approach.
OAM I think that leads us back to my original point. Personal responsibility is something we need to discover for ourselves. When it’s somebody else’s, it’s just that, not personal. An imposed responsibility.
Or ask Patrick Whitefield, digging vs non-digging:
Ha! It’s your back I’m most concerned about 🙂 Backs, knees and hips don’t function smoothly forever, especially for old blokes who applied themselves vigorously to heavy tasks when they were younger. There are other ways to manage vege gardens, but I’m not going to challenge the wisdom of anyone’s father. My own daughter, raised in a forest garden where leaf-fall does most of the soil preparation for me, digs her garden in readiness for planting. I applaud it all. If you’re gardening at all, you’re on the right side of the ledger 🙂
At one level the need for “personal responsibility” is just a simple truism that everyone agrees with – it’s what distinguishes an adult from a child. We pester our children to do their teeth (so they don’t get decay). do their homework (so they get the best results they can), tidy their room (so someone else doesn’t have to do it).
The problem is when it gets used by the right as a political bludgeon against people who have problems and who need help. Sometimes the problems are of their own making and sometimes not and most often it’s a mixture of the two. In these circumstances the accusation of failing to show “personal responsibility” is used as a reason for denying help. The real agenda is always to deny the help (and maybe get a tax cut out of reduced social welfare spending), rather than any particular belief in the concept of personal responsibility itself. They are, for example never engaged in self-reflection on the matter of personal responsibility, they are always flinging accusations at others.
Actually – a good rule of thumb when RW types talk about their “principles” is to see if the logical outcome of those principles would be a tax cut for the person professing them. If so, it’s plain they are not principles at all – merely disguised expressions of self-interest
As for Brexit negotiations, UK Labour’s team cannot possibly be worse than whatever corrupt shills the Tories can muster for their tax haven plan.
More interesting details on CCCP links into Australian politics:
http://www.theage.com.au/interactive/2017/chinas-operation-australia/the-go-betweens.html?
Interesting thanks – pity they had to use – go betweens – I just think of the band jeeze must have some Aussie in me.
Completely consistent with that big investigative story last week of Chinese funding going directly to political groups within Australia.
Back in the bad old days it was the US and British “cultural attaches” and “goodwill associations” that would launder this stuff.
But not blatant direct funding of political parties.
Great to see it uncovered.
Note carefully how in this instance the money was targeted at the right wings of the NSW LP and ALP; the softest underbelly of the lot.
It’s one thing to project ‘soft power’; all large nations do it. But the CCCP runs a totalitarian state, with a very dodgy and opaque human rights record. Pretending otherwise, and allowing them access to covertly manipulate our political process has to raise big, bright red, flapping flags.
+111
One wonders how successful the Chinese have been at exerting their soft power here in NZ?
erg, snap.
The Age article is on the back of the ABC 4 Corners program in conjunction with Fairfax media from last Monday night. The both Fairfax dailys and the Australian have been running with this since last Monday. Tonight 4 corners is the Fitzgerald inquiry into the Queensland police corruption under Sir Johwhich I think is the 30th anniversary this year. On a wee side note this was reason my folks moved to NZ in 1974 as I believe my dad had a wee run in with QPol a few times around Albion and the Valley when were workclass areas.
I wouldn’t be surprised the Chinese have their fingers in pie in to donations in NZ atm. I believe there was meant to a inquiry in the dumping of cheap low quality Chinese steel that was being use in the construction industry by NZ Government and the Chinese responded by saying they will restrict dairy products etc and it was the same with the legal and illegal Chinese tourist companies (fly by night/dodgy operators) employing Chinese people without the right qualifications and the under payment of wages so they can avoid hiring NZ workers at award rates etc.
Centrist elite liberalism strikes back! Macron’s party wins big.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/macrons-landslide-lessons-to-make-america-sane-again
About all I can take from all the “outsider” successes all the way across the political spectrum is the public likes sincere conviction politicians with a coherent vision they are prepared to stand up and argue for. Or can at least fake it convincingly.
Andre
“Centrist elite liberalism strikes back! Macron’s party wins big.”
______________________________________________________________________________
From your Daily Beast opinion piece
_____________________________________________________________________________
Wow !!!!!!!
“Now has an overwhelming electoral mandate” !!!!!!!!
Macron’s ‘Sensible Centrists’ must be really popular with the French public ! … How much did they get ? … Must have been at least 50 to 60% of the First Round vote in order to provoke shrieks of excitement like “Macron’s party wins big !”, “Centrist elite liberalism strikes back!”, and “overwhelming mandate ! “ ?
Whoa !!! … Hang on a moment ! … What the Pope’s Piss ?????
I’ve just read that, in fact, Macron’s ‘Extreme-Middle Sensible-Centrists’ received a grand total of 28% of the vote – 6m out of 22m … Even if you add Centrist Democratic Movement (MoDem) support – that’s still less than a third of the vote !!! – and on an historically low turnout as well – so, in fact, 32% of the 48% who bothered to vote.
Oh Andre, why oh why do you deceive us so ?????
Oh I dunno, it seems kind of in the spirit of the times. Y’know, like lauding Corbyn’s results as the coming of the Messiah even though Labour only got 40% of the vote and the Conservatives are about to form the government again after winning 50-odd more seats than Labour.
Aren’t you going to poke shit at me for neglecting to mention the real results won’t actually come until the second round coz only 4 seats were actually decided in the first round?
Great news for Team NZ this morning.
Thru to the Ameriacs cup challenge.
Would be fantastic if they can pull this off and bring the cup home.
should be free to air though as the nz tax payers paid $5 mill ? into it .
Aye. Corporate welfare gone mad.
more likely piss poor deal making by the woefully useless nat government.
just to be clear i like the cup races and i don’t mind funding it with taxs
I don’t have an issue with it either, just that the public should get more out of the ‘investment’ than some unmeasured benefit to elite, yachty tourism.
The winner will be… just follow the money…. Oracle. They will, once again, out spend and outwit us. Just a prediction though.
Ask the boat building industry in NZ.
It should be called the “NZ boatbuilders cup”.
If boat building had received the same level of subsidy as farming, we could have been world leaders.
Let me get this straight.
Some power companies have had their maintenance deficiencies pointed out to them.
They are going to spend lots of money on infrastructure.
To do this they are seeking permission to put up prices.
What the dickens is the line charge on the power bill for?
How much are the chief executives being paid in these organisations?
How much ‘profit’ have they returned to the shareholders over the years?
we should take the lines back , most of the lines in remote areas where built by the locals then taken by stealth so a few can profit , the lines company in the king country are the biggest crooks out .
absolutely we should take back what our parents and grandparents paid for.
and not stop there.
the generator companies as well.
some things should not be profitted fiscally from.
“What the dickens is the line charge on the power bill for?”
The power generators are separate from the local lines companies and the main grid ( Transpower)
Count the power poles in the street, the substations, the maintenance crews who have to repair it when lines are down or transformers fail. I my area they have ongoing power undergrounding in some areas and along busy roads – very expensive to do
Many lines companies are also well behind on their maintenance.
Maintaining the infrastructure. As they haven’t actually done that these companies should be charged and fined fined several million dollars and the lines renationalised.
Obviously far too much and they’ve failed to provide the service that they were employed for. In most circles this is called theft.
I agree, if a fundamental expense like maintenance isn’t included in the operational budget there should be no dividends to shareholders. Until all the overheads have been addressed there is no profit to share.
If we are going that way it leaves the road open for me to attach a note to my rates.
“Dear Council, I’ve had some maintenance issues arise at my property so I have deducted my expenditure from my rates payment, please see attached receipts.”
Hopefully the Commerce Commission will refuse their request.
Here’s a little more insight:
http://www.comcom.govt.nz/the-commission/media-centre/media-releases/2016/new-report-details-profitability-of-electricity-lines-companies/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/93592254/renting-family-say-they-are-stuck-in-a-house-that-is-making-them-sick
The go-betweens
Which is, of course, why the US, like most countries, doesn’t allow foreign political donations. A foreign country should not have influence in a states politics.
The US also doesn’t allow military equipment to be made offshore either for the same reason as well as national defence.
So, why do we?
I had the privilege to see “An Island of Good” last night: a documentary about an alternative education provider who decided to take 22 really naughty kids to Nepal. There was an interview about it yesterday on Natrad: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/201847204/expelled-students-visit-nepal
What an amazing crew. The kids were, well, naughty, but you could see how the whole process was affecting them in really positive ways. And then to hear that the YMCA had all its funding withdrawn immediately after for making waves, was heartbreaking.
its a great watch – it shows some really talented and driven teachers who go beyond what is normally called for, and some kids who we, as a society have consigned to the bin. Its messy, and doesn’t hide from it.
Highly recommended, and is being considered for inclusion in the NZ Film Festival this year.
Nice!
I really don’t think you have to worry too much about low lying area’s my old bean…
Global warming / Climate change is a globalist hoax, – specifically , – one put out and financed by the Bilderbergers….. and why ?… because all carbon tax would have been collected and redistributed into their banks. Those poor old Bilderbergers… they are gnashing their teeth at Trump right this very moment….
Anyways… make a cuppa and enjoy a ginger-nut and have a wee listen to Lord Monckton for a bit…
Global Warming Fraud – Lord Christopher Monckton Before … – YouTube
Video for lord monckton disproves climate change 2017 youtube▶ 26:41
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Bernie Sanders has a crack at Trump.
Enjoy 10 minutes of righteous rage.