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Open Mike 14/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 14th, 2017 - 93 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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93 comments on “Open Mike 14/06/2017 ”

  1. Ed 1

    ‘An apparent Jeremy Corbyn supporter has created a website detailing The Guardian‘s most anti-Corbyn headlines of the past two years.

    Quite a list…….

    The website, called Dump The Guardian!, gives 36 examples of times when the paper has run negative stories about Corbyn. Some of the examples featured include…’


    • Ed 1.1

      I’m sure similar lists could be made for Espiner and Ferguson on Morning Report.
      To see the bias on the Herald, ZB, Stuff and Garner’s awful show, you need to look at Murdoch’s garbage for a comparison.

        • Ed

          Suzie Ferguson’s voice suggests she is more concerned about the fate of a sailing team than child poverty….

          Distraction………… just another meaningless message to keep you from paying attention to the issues that really matter

          • Johan

            What are the real issues Ed? Why attack a journo then? Perhaps you could state why this National led gov’t is keen on stopping any info coming to the public’s view concerning Auckland’s rail report.

            • marty mars

              Good questions but the point of eds posting is esoteric – personally I’d prefer 1 link with some original comment or thought but that ain’t the way ed rolls. Forcefed or nothing – but the plaintive cries will soon come out from ed…

              It takes all sorts and ed is included so take it all with a grainary of salt ed ☺

      • mpledger 1.1.2

        The good thing is that these newspapers can’t win by keeping with this trajectory.

        With the proportion of young people in the UK voting Labour and the proportion of old people voting Conservative, the newspapers are pandering to a population that will be dead in 10-20 years (and a minority even sooner) … and so will the newspapers if they don’t change.

      • Mrs Brillo 1.1.3

        Ed: Perhaps someone could create an equivalent site for the examples you mention.

    • BM 1.2

      Stop spamming open mike Paul.

      Do you have no control? this is the sort of behaviour that got you banned last time around,

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1

        Ed is considerably more informative than Poison Peter. If you don’t like their comments just scroll on by.

      • greywarshark 1.2.2

        There is nothing that I despise more than some supercilious creep like yourself who skates on thin ice and knows just how to manipulate the blog, making moderating type criticisms like a smart alec. And what drives you mad apparently is someone who is concerned about many issues. Too much information! Makes your synapses pop apparently.

      • Skinny 1.2.3

        I see Joyce hasn’t learnt his lesson offered up in Nationals loss to NZF Leader Winston Peters.

        Joyce was snapped last week with some of the Hundertwasser fund raisers.
        After previously receiving substantial Government funding it now looks like further taxpayer funding is coming from his Govt through the heritage fund. It is what it is ‘more pork barrel politics with an election coming up.

        Here the RNZ interview. Incredible given Joyce is on record saying no more taxpayers money. Must not be going well for Shane Reti if he has to do a flip flop. Expect WP to be laughing about it;

    • weka 2.1

      I suspect that quite a few of those (or the NZ equivalent) are already in Labour or the Greens’ policies. Have you looked?

  2. Ed 3

    The brighter future……

    ‘One in nine NZers hit by ‘significant income fall
    A joint study by Deloitte and Victoria University’s School of Government has found one in nine New Zealanders will experience a significant fall in income in any given year.

    Lower to middle income earners are even more vulnerable, with the odds dropping to one in six.

    Report co-author and Deloitte partner Dave Farrelly said the odds of being caught in serious financial strife surprised him.’


  3. adam 4

    Aldous Harding, just a great artist. This video will test all you folk fans out there.

    • Carolyn_nth 4.1

      And this will test feminists, too. Is this what is called having your satire and letting it eat you, too?

  4. The Chairman 6

    Considering the earthquake risk, is it wise for Wellington city to build upwards?

    Is Wellington really constrained in its ability to grow out ? There seems to be plenty of scope for growth between Wellington, Kapiti and the Wairarapa rail corridor.

    Would it not be more beneficial for council to buy buildings rather than lease?
    Developers would be looking for long-term leases and the guarantee of income, yet it is expected that the housing provided will be cost neutral for ratepayers in the long term. However, if council decided to buy instead of lease, it would not only be cost neutral, it would also result with council owning new assets.


    • The Chairman 6.1

      Are the Wellington City Council working in the best interest of private developers or in the best interest of ratepayers overall?

      Lester and Eagle (both of which are associated with Labour) seem to be driving this, thus how will this reflect on Labour?

  5. ianmac 7

    On Daily Review last night swordfish posted a great link on the Yougov detail of how/who voted in the UK. Fascinating. (Hope you don’t mind swordfish.)


    Older people vote Conservative. Better educated vote Labour. Hmmm?

    • Molly 7.1

      73% Guardian readership voted Labour? Must have a lot of their readers swearing over the coverage and opinion pieces over the last few years.

    • Carolyn_nth 7.2

      Maybe (low income) Labour voters are more likely to die quite young? the UK health system, no longer being comprehensive care for all from cradle to the grave.

      All the oldie voters I know in the UK, would never vote for the Tories.

    • JanM 7.3

      As far as I can recall repeated surveys show that the better educated are more likely to vote Labour – in this country too

  6. Tony Veitch (not etc) 8

    This is a bit of self-indulgent narcissism – so feel free to disregard it – as many will, I know.

    And I wish to make absolutely certain I still intend to work for the Labour Party to become the government in September.

    So, what I’m talking about is a sort of cathartic moment – when the darkness dawns and the light goes out.

    Let me explain. I attended a meeting in ChCh for Labour party workers, and Andrew Little spoke to the troops – preaching to the converted.

    What I should have heard was a vision of what NZ would become under a truly progressive Labour-led government. A moving image of equality and fairness, a sharing of the wealth of the country among all its people and a determination to tackle the really big issues facing this country.

    What I heard was a prescription for better administration – for neoliberalism with a smiling face. Waiting lists would be tackled, houses built, NEETs given training and so on.

    All worth working and fighting for – but so so limited, so so mediocre! So so lacking in real willingness to fundamentally change any damn thing!

    Frankly, I was deeply disappointed. But perhaps the fault was mine – perhaps I expected too much of a Labour Party still mired in the muck of Rogernomics?

    • greywarshark 8.1

      Yes you are right Tony you did expect too much. If you have ever tried to move forward when standing in the mire in your gumboots, you will know how hard it is to lift them out and move forward. Rogernomics has led us deep and left us there.

      What you would have liked to hear was a big picture, full-colour cenario but you know talk is easy, and if Andrew Little is going to provide services, tackle problems, housing, etc. actually DO SOMETHING INTELLIGENT AND POSITIVE. that will be 100% better than Dr Dolittle’s government of strange animals which we have now.

      So buck up Tony, it will be a brighter future, but in winter the sun rises later in the day and then we rejoice to get it. We have been in the winter of our discontent so long that small amounts of regular sunshine will start a NewZeal Spring.

    • garibaldi 8.2

      You’re not on your own Tony V. I went to a Greens meeting recently and felt just like you did. There’s no fire in their bellies, their meetings are just a 101 introduction. They don’t even have enough faith in themselves to call out neoliberalism for what it is.
      I don’t think we are expecting too much, I just don’t think the talent is there.

      • mary_a 8.2.1

        @ garibaldi (8.2) … the Greens lost the fire in their bellies, the day Russel Norman left Parliament. Even Meteria Turei is a diluted version of what she once was. She used to spit hell, fire and brimstone at the Natz, alongside Russel. But not anymore now. The spirit seems to have gone out of the party with the fire. Pity.

        Rod Donald must be turning in his grave to see what the Greens have come down to now, a murky shade of blue!

    • saveNZ 8.3

      @Tony Veitch (not etc), garibaldi, you probably are right about Labour piecemeal messaging, too many policy wonks, and power points and not enough activism, but what is the alternative, they can hardly be worse that National and ACT!

      Little is more cunning that everyone gives him credit for. He’s trying to navigate his own neoliberal MP’s, the shark Natz, dirty politics and the voters, many of whom still believe the MSM myth that the NZ economy is doing great guns! I’m just hoping that Labour don’t get the same nightmare advisor/management team that Cunliffe used with Vote positive, somewhere between an insurance slogan and mirth.

      Also there are some good people in the Green party – Gareth Hughes and Barry Coates are still activists and deliver new ideas and speeches.

      • garibaldi 8.3.1

        Yes saveNZ we know we have to vote for them because there is no alternative.
        There are good people in Labour and the Greens but they get no exposure because of ‘discipline’.
        “Boring” will not beat the Natz.
        Corbyn got through to the people. There’s so much we could learn from Brit Labours campaign but we’re too proud/stupid/ignorant, or just too mired in neoliberalism,to do so.

        • McFlock

          no-o I think solid work by an mp shows through in the end.

          And discipline in caucus is a shedload better than the post-clark Labour caucus bullshit. It just poisons the entire well: even the good mps have to start backstabbing in self defense – politics being the only pasttime that comes to mind where a backstab can actually be self defense lol

      • saveNZ 8.3.2

        I think the way Natz dirty politics is steering the discourses is very cunning too. They are keeping the lefties focused on Labour and Greens messaging and their gaps… while superficially mimicking similar messaging. But under the covers the National party actions are actually very FAR RIGHT, not like Labour at all. It’s very far right, media control, state official controls, cronyism, deregulation of everything from environment to state assets, destruction of the welfare state etc.

        The trick is not to bother with National messing or the Ministry of Truth propaganda and just look at what the Natz are up too not believe their press releases.

        Like Trump, National’s policy doesn’t actually doesn’t make any sense – like some deranged is at the helm, homeless in expensive hotels, state houses being sold off or empty and then government paying more money to build less houses to private developers, buying fake carbon credits while promoting 100% pure NZ, building dams in areas that are prone to drought and making it worse by catching the water to get more water intensive business at the drought prone spot, giving water away for free to foreign interests, having zero tax havens that you don’t have to declare who owns the money… while using NZ respectability to mask it. Giving casino’s state money, even giving them TVNZ space to put a conference in, that get’s more gamblers here, sending millions on sheep to Saudi businessmen to die in a desert in the hope they might impress someone somewhere to give them a trade deal. Perservering with the zombie TPPA when even the US has pulled out, mass surveillance, having our SAS kill civilians in Afghanistan but pretending it didn’t happen….

        • greywarshark

          The trick is to say to yourself – I wonder what the NZ mafia are up to now? And then keep tally life Blip did with Key. Just noting how the political machine shapes the once reasonably healthy NZ society so it is bulimic, it looks like a country but it’s real sick, though that’s not on show.

    • pete 8.4

      You were probably hoping like Minto the left had learned something from Corbyn.


      Here is something Labour could take in:

      I remember the days when Corbyn campaigned for his initial Labour leadership bid. He was challenged during an interview that he obviously wasn’t interested in financial contributions to his party by wealthy donors. His answer was (not verbatim): “Well I am very interested in their contributions, but I don’t want small donations to the party, I’ll make them pay their fair share of tax instead”.

      Evidently Corbyn’s campaign was financed with lots of small donations of 22 pounds each.

      And here is another one from The Intercept (https://theintercept.com/2017/06/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-leading-the-left-out-of-the-wilderness-and-toward-power/):

      The much-mocked Corbyn had a very clear plan from the very beginning. “The politics of hope are not an inevitable reaction when politics fails,” he declared in a speech at the London School of Economics in May 2016. “The politics of hope have to be rebuilt.” Rebuilding, the Labour leader explained, required three things. First, “a vision to inspire people that politics has the power to make a positive difference to their lives.” Second, “trust – that people believe both that we can and that we will change things for the better.” Third, “the involvement and engagement of people to make the first two possible.”

  7. Ad 9

    Some really big shifts in energy consumption across the world:


    1. Coal’s quickening demise, even in China
    2. Diesel use in China declining fast as the economy becomes less oil intensive
    3. Global carbon emissions are stabilising

    Won’t necessarily save the world of course.
    Just a good set of patterns for carbon use.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.1

      1. Coal’s quickening demise, even in China

      ‘Coal is dead’ and oil faces ‘peak demand,’ says world’s largest investment group

      Coal isn’t the only fossil fuel at risk. Because of the rapidly improving performance and cost of batteries, Barry is “bullish” on electric vehicles. And as a result, he is bearish on oil demand, noting that “there was always this historic view on oil about peak supply but it’s about peak demand being an equal dynamic.” BNEF and the credit rating agency Fitch have made similar warnings.

      It really does look like fossil fuels are on the out.

      Of course we could, and should, have started that decades ago. The problem of leaving it to ‘the market’ is that it’s taken far longer than it should have.

  8. The yachting – nobody cares 🙂

    “But some are already saying this year’s final could be overshadowed, perhaps even marred, by the fact the America’s Cup is a terrible, overly complicated, comically litigious excuse for a sport where the winner makes the rules – often for their own benefit – and nobody in the world actually cares about it anyway.”


    • The decrypter 10.1

      Robert, some people do care very much.

      • Robert Guyton 10.1.1

        I know, td. Yachts have feelings too. Fact is, I’ve one parked in the back yard and I know it’s yearning to get back in the lake. The Civilian post is funny though…

        • David Mac

          Our sailing history stretches back as far as we do. Most vehicular sports burn oil or calories, you race yachts sitting on your bottom while holding a stick and a rope. Being good at it requires a tuned sense of balance and an ability to read nature. It’s fun if you’re that way inclined.

          Interesting that the hot-rods they’re racing in Bermuda are based on the twin hull design that Kupe showed up in, not the whaling barques that tied up centuries later.

          The learn to sail fee at Taipa Sailing club is about $100. If that’s a bit steep I’m sure a couple of big Bacon and Egg pies for the family BBQ at the end of the month will do the trick. Sailing is not elitist, it’s available to everyone that wants to have a go. It’s one of the neat things about living in NZ.

          Yep, sailors and fans want to watch the very best the world has to offer, the pinnacle of the game. Of course, the kids tootling around off Taipa…if you think the Bermuda Cats are boring…. Same with all sports, golfers don’t want to flick on Sky and watch the Helensville Open. They were just playing in the Muriwai Open.

          This is as big as this sport gets, kids that started with tipping little sailing dinghys over on Lake Pupuke are duking it out with the very best in the world. Our competitors have a bottomless budget. I think it’s cool, I’m digging it, but if others are not interested, that’s cool too.

          • Robert Guyton

            After becoming becalmed for an hour on Lake Te Anau during a race, I know what boring is; frustration too. I’ve no objection or opinion about those who like to watch high-end yacht racing but would baulk at the level of reporting it gets (apparently) in the mainstream media, though not having a tv means I’m not subject to that, nor news of the Lions. I feel blessed.

            • David Mac

              Becalmed is ok provided competitors are as well. When in the only zero pressure spot in the bay, frustration becomes a clubhouse ribbing.

              With regard the level of reporting I see it in the same light as all lead stories, we get the media we deserve. Kiwis doing well on the world stage imparts a sense of accomplishment for recipients that need never leave the couch. “We’ve Won”.

              I wonder which headline would get the most clicks? “House Prices Rise.” House Prices Stabilise.” or “House Prices Down.”

              The one that gets the most clicks, that’s what we’re going to get.

              Don’t you watch pirate live streams on your comp for sports Rob? (just nod, don’t type,)

              Go the Middle Eastern Muslim Country Airline Team!

              • Grafton Gully

                Too much emphasis on competition and big money spoils it for me, After the learn to sail at Taipa, it’s learn to race. That cuts out a few potential sailors.

                • David Mac

                  Hi, love your name. I like those Twiss bronzes at the city end of the bridge.

                  I acknowledge that there is a mindset that views competition as de-constructive. I don’t. I think it is nature. All creatures and plants compete.

                  I also acknowledge that there is a view that would state “So you are no smarter than an ant or a lettuce huh Dave?”

                  I race myself. I set my phone stop watch and set off down to the letterbox, check it, work hard back up the drive, back into the office and loudly declare “I beat myself.” A racetubator. I figure I’m not hurting anyone and if someone else wants to race with me, I’m up for it. I think competing is a natural wholesome unavoidable pleasure in this day and age. it used to be about staying alive.

                  • In Vino

                    I still sail racing dinghies (not expensive) quite keenly. Sailing is a weather-dependent sport, like skiing or surfing. It can be heaven, but on some days it is better not to sail. I think that nowadays there is far too much emphasis on training. The emphasis should not be on how to win, it should be on how to enjoy sailing your boat. Before the days of intensive training we went out and did what we enjoyed doing. Sad to say, that is now a foreign concept for most trainees. They come in after training OK, but not with that light in the eye we oldies used to have after some really exciting blasts on a reach – something that simply does not exist in our current training programmes. Grafton Gully is right. Our sport is the poorer for it.

                    • David Mac

                      Yeah, if you’re that way inclined why join a sailing dinghy club? Those cats just go sailing. They are the majority.

                      Youngsters, particularly boys, naturally compete. Trying to get to the buoy first is a whole lot more attractive when you’re 15 rather than 50. Those tacking kids leap from side to side like coil springs. Bugger that.

                      Kids racing between buoys is not the ruination of yachting.

                    • garibaldi

                      I think this change in attitude is a result of professionalism in sport. It is approached as a way to make money/have a career, rather than something you do for pleasure/escapism.

      • Sanctuary 10.1.2

        The America’s Cup was THE LEAD STORY on TVNZ One news last night. IMHO, nothing could more neatly illustrate the upper-class news values, class bias and neoliberal echo chamber of TVNZ.

        A sport dominated by rich whites, viewable only on pay TV, and of interest primarily to a boat-owning segment of the middle class, led the news. What next, leading with Polo and a report on the this year’s fox hunting in Victoria?

        90,000 young people neither in education or employmnet is scarcely reported upon. An elite sport for the idle rich? HELL YEAH!

        • Robert Guyton

          Tally-ho! I’m with Sanctuary. Amazing, those yachts, technological marvels, poetry in action, but so’s a butterfly and I’d squash every yacht if it would ensure the survival of butterflies. Trouble is, we are moving in the direction of Save the Yachts, damn the butterflies.!

          • greywarshark

            How do you feel about the business of exploring space Robert? Let’s go to some really remote place, unspoiled by people, and have a look at it just because we can, better than going to Antarctica, everybody goes there.

            Planting trees in the desert was a post WW2 immense project to help stop the creeping desertification and many have been planted. But no we must have more fuel so we can go to somewhere special in space that we can brag about where movers and shakers congregate.

            • bwaghorn

              we should be invading space at full speed for many reasons ,
              long term survival,
              because it would be interesting ,
              why not,
              because young people have nothing much to get excited about , the rough necks of the world like me die inside at the thought that life is all about safety and mortgages.
              it would /could unify the human race

              So throw the health and safety books away and fire leaky rafts off into space and learn from the survivors.

              • “because young people have nothing much to get excited about”
                So let’s pour our remaining credit into sky rockets!

                Help me, Jesus!

              • greywarshark

                I have thought it would be an interesting end of life odyssey for adventurous old people to have ‘tours of duty’ to foreign lands where our allies or others have laid land mines. It would be dangerous, even knowing the techniques for safety wouldn’t stop the occasional death. But those times you know the value of being alive and alert. Here drones would be useful.

                Once one had got old and bored why not be a hero and help some poor benighted people to have some land and growing area for their village on once dangerous areas. And help people not just amuse your own curiosity with boyhood fantasies. Read the space fiction, watch it on screen, live the taught excitement of this ventureon the Earth.

                • bwaghorn

                  your idea is better than dribbling on oneself in a corner waiting to be euthanized .
                  Sci fi is often sci fact ,if you hang around long enough ,and the fact that i won’t is my only thing i hate about being mortal

            • Robert Guyton

              I’m guessing you’ve just read Joe Bennett’s just-published article, ” What to do next after we reach Mars?”, Grey. If not, you’re in for a treat.
              Space travel? Forget it. More of the same, as you describe.

              “Turning and turning in the widening gyre
                  The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
                  Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;”

              (Fragment of Yeats)

          • Stuart Munro

            I wouldn’t mourn the cabbage white. Or Peter Dunne.

        • Carolyn_nth

          I am also uninterested in the whole sail boat race thing. I avoid coverage of it like the plague.

          Who exactly is interested? Not many people that I know.

          Sailing used to be an art and DIY technology that everyone was involved in: an important mode of transport. Expensive sailing races are for the otherwise idle rich.

          • The decrypter

            English will be very interested in holding the old mug aloft in one hand and a lions head in the other. On the world stage, representing us all. It may just happen –be brave, batten down the hatches is my nautical– and jolly rugger input.

            • The decrypter

              Forgot–add —-a pair of paulas bloomers,” the mainsail”, draped around the English shoulders.

          • Robert Guyton

            I agree with you, Carolyn. A sail though, springing to the wind, that’s magic! A screen between you and it though, is a sadness.

        • James

          Your post is full of moaning and short on facts.

          For example the Americas cup will be on free to air.


          • adam

            By definition that is not free to air if it is delayed by 5 hours, that is called delayed coverage.

            • stigie

              The coverage is only delayed 1.5hrs not 5hrs, pretty damn good if you are not paying for it. If you want to bitch, go and get sky sport and watch it live like other people that want to watch sport live !

              • adam

                So it’s not free to air then. My mistake on the 5 hours, but you know 5 hours compared with 1 hour and a half is still delayed television, not free to air.

                As for your pretty good comment, some of us have higher standards what is public broadcasting.

                But then again, I don’t really care, as I have Netflix becasue I like good TV. Most gambling web sites will give you access to sport/game if you bet on it. So no need to pay for a monthly prescription.

        • Ed

          The news is owned by billionaires, so course this is headline news.

  9. Kevin 11

    Once again Brownlee proves he is not fit to hold public office. What a spineless, useless sack of shit he is.


  10. Carolyn_nth 12

    It looks like Annie Goldson’s latest documentary, on Kim Dotcom, Caught in the Web will be on at this year’s Wellington Film Festival – hopefully also at the Auckland Festival. Click on the preceding title for a review.

    See the website for the doco here.

    Click on The Trailer box for a taste of the film.

    • weka 12.1

      thanks, interesting, I’ll probably watch it if it becomes available outside of cinemas.

  11. joe90 13

    Syrian artist and refugee Abdalla Al Omari depicts world leaders as refugees.

    From The "Vulnerability Series"BarackOil on Canvas200x140cm@BarjeelArt @SultanAlQassemi @BarackObama pic.twitter.com/32ftxOYal1— Abdalla Al Omari (@_AbdallaOmari_) September 17, 2015

  12. gsays 14

    so we are friends with the israelis again.
    excuse me while i blow up some balloons.
    i understand the pm wrote a letter of apology.
    was it the typical polly apology eg: “sorry you feel that way’ or was it more fulsome?

    what are we, as a nation sorry for?
    where is the acknowledgement of responsibility and hurt in issues closer to home, eg children in state care.

  13. adam 15

    This appeared in my YouTube as I rather like Frankie Boyle.

    It’s 35 minutes long, so McFlock won’t be watching. Aired on election night in the UK, good for a laugh, only if your not easily offended.

    • ianmac 15.1

      I did watch it Adam and thought it sharp and perceptive and funny. How sad that we have no equivalent – at all.

      • adam 15.1.1

        It is ah, not one NZ comedian is this sharp or indeed funny in the sphere of politics. Most avoid politics like the plague, which I get, they have families, and we have a very tiny industry – so they don’t rock the boat. How lovely it is for the Tories to have all this self censorship, no one can then point fingers.

      • Ed 15.1.2

        And we don’t have a Labour Party with socilalist principles.

  14. greywarshark 16

    Hundertwasser museum in Whangarei are very happy.
    “We are thrilled to tell you that the Hundertwasser art Centre project has just received a grant of $3.5 million from the New Zealand Lotteries Commission significant project fund. This means we have met our first target – raising $16,250,000 by 30 June 2017. Read more about it on our website……?

    It will be a bright colourful point and a change from NZ often dour style. I think we should run with that and have gurning competitions in a people’s fair.

  15. Poission 17

    huge fire in london block of flats


    • saveNZ 17.1

      So horrible. Apparently it had recently been refurbished, what happened to the sprinklers? People are apparently trapped inside and the firefighters are spraying water but how the hell are the people supposed to get out – it’s 24 stories? It looks totally engulfed in flames.

  16. Ed1 18

    I changed posting name so as not to be confused with the other Ed – who posts more frequently than I do.

    A few weeks ago I saw an excellent graph showing government debt in billions, from the start of the Labour-led government to now – a clear downward curve until National’s tax cuts just after they were elected and a clear upwards curve from then.

    Does anyone have a link for it?

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