Open mike 15/02/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 15th, 2022 - 83 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

83 comments on “Open mike 15/02/2022 ”

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  1. weka 1
    15 February 2022 at 6:15 am

    Please use the dedicated post for discussion about the anti-mandate Convoy protest rather than Open Mike.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/convoy-protest-15-2-22/

    • Jenny how to get there 1.1
      15 February 2022 at 8:12 am

      My apologies. Would have done that. Unfortunately for me, I didn't see the dedicated post for today when I started writing my comment in Open Mike.

      A little unprecedented to have my comment moved from Open Mike to a dedicated page. But Happy to have it moved there.

      • weka 1.1.1
        15 February 2022 at 8:48 am

        no worries, I hadn't put the bold comment above up when you commented.

        We can't move comments from OM to posts.

  2. Jenny how to get there 2
    15 February 2022 at 6:57 am

    1981 Right wing government in power, Left wing protesters trespass on football field, refuse to leave.

    The Right wing government has a decision, order the police to forcibly remove them, or let them be.

    Choose the former and the whole world will be shocked and sickened.

    Choose the latter and the game will have to be called off.

    2022 Left wing government in power, Right wing protesters trespass on Government forecourt, refuse to leave.

    The government has a decision, forcibly remove them, or let them be.

    What would be your choice?

    .

    • Herodotus 2.1
      15 February 2022 at 7:19 am

      Not sure those flying that United tribes flags would be considered right wing or many of those that from appearances are Māori or Pacific Islanders. but then that narrative would not well serve the strategy.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/461363/covid-19-protesters-persist-at-parliament-for-fifth-day

      • Jenny how to get there 2.1.1
        15 February 2022 at 7:34 am

        Herodotus

        15 February 2022 at 7:19 am

        Not sure those flying that United tribes flags would be considered right wing….

        Not sure those Anglican churchmen carrying that large Christian cross would be considered left wing….

        Aren't churches generally considered to be conservative?

        There seem to be a hell of a lot of new ager and hippy types at this right wing protest.

        Aren't hippies and new agers generally considered to be liberal?

        Right wing government, Left wing government, Right wing protesters, Left wing protesters.

        Which side of the divide determines your definition of both.

        Slice it and dice it how you like, the moral dilemma is the same.

        The political decision to be made is the same.

      • solkta 2.1.2
        15 February 2022 at 8:24 am

        Anyone flying one of those flags at the protest obviously doesn't have enough understanding to actually formulate a cohesive political orientation. Most of the New Zealand flags are being flown upside down but none of the United Tribes flags. Yet Northern Iwi have been stauncher about mandates than the gummint.

    • Ad 2.2
      15 February 2022 at 7:34 am

      Editors:

      Could you do us a favour and shift this stuff onto the other post?

      • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1
        15 February 2022 at 7:49 am

        Yes please, let's do anything possible to prevent us discussing the ethical moral and political questions of the day.

        • Shanreagh 2.2.1.1
          15 February 2022 at 9:37 am

          There is a special thread for the protest discussing all manner of topics to do with the protest. Why don't you think it is a good idea to discuss views, etc over there?

          • Jenny how to get there 2.2.1.1.1
            15 February 2022 at 12:16 pm

            I do think it is a good idea to discuss these issues over there.

            And would have written my comment into today's thread, If I had not started typing my comment before today's thread for this debate existed.

            You might ask me; why then didn't I put it in to yesterday's thread?

            I might answer; for the same reason The Standard felt they needed to start a new thread on the same topic today.

    • Shanreagh 2.3
      15 February 2022 at 9:28 am

      Can you not copy and paste your comment so we don't have two lots of posts about the protest?

      Weka is this not possible?

    • alwyn 2.4
      15 February 2022 at 1:49 pm

      " Left wing protesters trespass on football field".

      That was possibly the case in Hamilton where the invasion of the pitch caused the game to be abandoned. I can't comment as I wasn't there.

      In terms of what happened at Wellington demonstrations it certainly wasn't true that the demonstrators were "left wing". There were people from all sides of politics there, including myself. I will feel insulted if you claim that taking part in those demonstrations makes me a left winger. There were lots like me as well. That particular cause was adopted by people from right across the spectrum.

  3. Blade 3
    15 February 2022 at 8:01 am

    People love being offended nowadays, especially the woke.

    The problem with wokisters is they want the world to be as they want it, and people who don't fit that description to be punished, cancelled or abused on social media.

    Take this feral tourist operator. If you find him obnoxious, write a bad review and get on with life. You have choices – each to their own.

    That he has a Trump poster on the wall puts him in my good books. I'm neutral on the confederate flag. In this link a woke reporter tells him he should get rid of the Trump poster.

    You couldn't make this shit up.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127720885/cowboy-paradise-but-a-tourists-hell–man-felt-so-unsafe-at-holiday-spot-he-considered-cycling-off-in-the-night

    • Blazer 3.1
      15 February 2022 at 8:41 am

      You appear to be offended by those you classify as 'woke'.-very good.

      • weka 3.1.1
        15 February 2022 at 8:52 am

        lol.

      • Blade 3.1.2
        15 February 2022 at 10:13 am

        Very offended. If I become a dictator in this country their fate will be grim.

        Starting with Re-education camps reading the masterpiece -''Capitalism: A Treatise on Economics, by George Reisman.''

        Then we move to the water board.devil

      • joe90 3.1.3
        15 February 2022 at 11:35 am

        . I'm neutral on the confederate flag.

        You're a RWNJ. Of course you're neutral on the obscene symbol of the treasonous losers who waged war on their own countrymen in defence of their peculiar institution.

        /

        • Blade 3.1.3.1
          15 February 2022 at 11:42 am

          Someone needs to give you a history lesson, Hoser.sad

          • joe90 3.1.3.1.1
            15 February 2022 at 11:46 am

            Go on then chump, give me an history lesson.

            • Blade 3.1.3.1.1.1
              15 February 2022 at 11:51 am

              Champ…you gave me the history lesson. You can now give yourself one.

              Punch this into the YT search engine.

              US History for Kids | Social Studies for Grade 3 | Kids Academy

              • Macro …
                15 February 2022 at 1:56 pm

                Well now we see why you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed. Relying on kids youtube for your education 🙄

                So here is someone who really does understand what that flag represents thinks of it:

                • Blade …
                  15 February 2022 at 2:53 pm

                  Marco, I have always admired your shades. However, I didn't know that behind them you where blind as a bat.. and that if we took your shades off there would be two vacant holes where your grey matter should be.

                  Now, of course, talking about these bad southern state arseholes and their history of slavery…people forget to mention the NORTH were also slave owners. Sure their slaves were more up market and well dress, and they weren't recorded in animal stock books, but they were slaves all the same.

                  ''Deeper Roots of Northern Slavery Unearthed – HISTORYhttps://www.history.com › news › deeper-roots-of-nort…

                  '' Although often associated with the South, slavery was part of Colonial life in the North as well. Northern merchants profited from the …''

                  Now if we follow your flawed line of reasoning, why aren't you jumping up and down about the NZ flag…and why was John Key dissed for wanting a new flag?surprise

                  This is how sly and vicious and dumb Liberals are dealt with:

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    15 February 2022 at 3:17 pm

                    The Democrats are still pissed the Republicans freed the slaves wink

                  • Macro …
                    15 February 2022 at 4:23 pm

                    I don't need you, or Faux News , to give me a distorted interpretation of American History. Yes there were slave owners in the North, but you might also be aware (but choose to ignore) that the North ran the Underground Railroad and that one of the main causes of the Civil war was over the matter of abolition.

                    And as for my preference wrt to the NZ Flag or otherwise how do you know what I think? Sure as a serving Naval Officer I saluted it every time I was Officer of the Day and on Parade – but actually I am ambivalent about the use of the Union Jack despite the fact that my commission is from Her Majesty, not the New Zealand Govt. I think the design placed before the people in the referendum would make a nice tea towel, but much prefer a more indigenous design for when the time is right. I don't think that time is now for a number of different reasons.

                    Nevertheless there is a distinct difference between the colonization of America and New Zealand, that we in NZ need to face up to and recognize.

                    With the abolition of slavery in the early 19th C there needed to be a change in the way imperialist powers went about settling new lands viz NZ. The Treaty Hobson had drawn up did not come out of thin air – it had its origins in Britain, and the influencing forces behind the tenor of the Treaty were those who had been the instigators of the Abolition of Slavery.

                    Previously the British, had shown little respect for the peoples they would subjugate and often turn into slaves, but in the early 19th C a new conscience had entered public thinking, ahead of any colonial plans for New Zealand. New Zealand, if colonised at all, was to be done differently, in partnership with the indigenous people.

                    Several decades before the Treaty was signed, slavery abolitionist William Wilberforce, and others who were part of the humanitarian Clapham Sect were influential in the British Parliament of the early 19th C. The humanitarian attitude, championed in part by Wilberforce and his legal counsel, friend and later brother-in-law James Stephen, (who together bought an end to the slave trade), extended to the new generation of influential humanitarian Christians. In particular James Stephen’s son, was British Colonial Secretary. It was he who gave the instructions to Lord Normanby to ensure Hobson set out the mutually beneficial principals of agreements that became known as the Treaty of Waitangi.

                    Stephen was well aware of the atrocities that had been perpetuated on the indigenous people of other nations by the process of British colonisation and was determined that this was never to happen in New Zealand.

                    Maori land and resources were to be protected by law and they were to be treated as equal rights citizens with the British. Coincidentally indigenous Australians were only granted citizenship of Australia in 1967.

                    So the relationship between tangata whenua and the Crown is an important one because it is a covenant between the Crown and Maori.

                    Sadly it was only a matter of a few years from the signing of the Treaty and the passing of these humanitarian Christians from the British Colonial Office that Maori were faced with clear evidence that they had been betrayed.

                  • Craig H …
                    15 February 2022 at 4:26 pm

                    What kind of nonsense what-aboutism did I just have the misfortune to read?

                    The fact that the North also had slaveowners doesn't change the well-researched conclusion that the Confederacy attempted to secede in order to maintain the institution of slavery of "negroes". We know that because they said so at the time.

                    The North can own its fair share of opprobrium, but it doesn't make the various confederate flags and standards any less symbolic of white supremacy or the institution of slavery at all costs.

                    • Blade …
                      15 February 2022 at 4:37 pm

                      Yeah, I know. I was just adding a little balance to the argument.

                      A piece of cloth does not regulate the morality of people. Nor does it represent all people who live under its auspice.

                      Balance, and a live and let live attitude, is a commodity many posters on this blog lack.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 February 2022 at 5:04 pm

                      "balance".

                      Relating to the confederacy. 🙄

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  15 February 2022 at 4:50 pm

                  Check his political party out:

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Wesley_Evans

    • weka 3.2
      15 February 2022 at 8:54 am

      Take this feral tourist operator. If you find him obnoxious, write a bad review and get on with life. You have choices – each to their own.

      He sounds like an arsehole. Not law against that, but neither is there in talking to the MSM about how he is an arsehole.

      The fact that people are there with no phone or power, and the only option is to cycle out, is a problem. Mostly I think people should research where they stay but that's pretty OTT if someone is being abusive as well.

      • Blade 3.2.1
        15 February 2022 at 11:09 am

        The guy is a feral alright. Just one look at him paints a picture.

        Yep, research before you go.. and don't always rely on reviews.

      • alwyn 3.2.2
        15 February 2022 at 1:57 pm

        When you do your research and decide where to go you should make sure you avoid the West Coast at all costs. The people are a feral, inbred Kentucky-like lynch mob.

        Or so, then PM, Helen Clark said back in 2000.

        https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0005/S00067/helen-clark-insults-west-coasters-again.htm

        • weka 3.2.2.1
          15 February 2022 at 2:09 pm

          Lying again awlyn 🙄

          mickysavage

          This is one of those urban legends that spring up from time to time.

          Helen never said all West Coasters were “feral imbreds”. From the information that you supplied she said that only some pro logging coasters who advocated for the “shooting of conservationists up trees like possums caught in car headlights” were “feral”. One would presume that only a small minority of coasters would feel this way.

          So Helen makes some quite justified comments about a rabid minority and it gets twisted so that all West Coasters get upset …

          Mod prerogative, not going to link to KB, a phrase search will bring it up.

          I googled "a Kentucky-like lynch mob" + "helen clark" and got your link and the KB post that micky is commenting under. It's really not that hard to check things that sound daft.

          • alwyn 3.2.2.1.1
            15 February 2022 at 2:55 pm

            I never thought I would be shown a string of comments from Mickysavage on Kiwiblog! Amazing. And what was he claiming? "Helen never said all West Coasters were “feral inbreds”.

            Well that's good to know. It was just some of them says Micky. And he says that her comments were quite justified. And Phil Goff supported Micky. Right I shall remember that in future and say "Some people" instead of "The people"

            As far as Micky and Phil denying things on Helen's behalf I shall defer to the immortal words used by Mandy Rice Davies when Lord Astor's denied having had an affair with her. Of the fact that he had denied it she simply stated "Well he would, wouldn't he".

    • Shanreagh 3.3
      15 February 2022 at 9:35 am

      Thanks for the warning.

      I am not neutral on the Confederate flag, it is a present day racist symbol of a past days political racist system.

      • Blade 3.3.1
        15 February 2022 at 10:06 am

        ''I am not neutral on the Confederate flag, it is a present day racist symbol of a past days political racist system.''

        I don't see it that way. It was a symbol of a people and their way of life. Just like the violent black and racist fist of the BLM movement.

        I have a demarcation line between Trump the man…and what he did as president.

        If that offends you, have your say, as you have…and move on.

        • McFlock 3.3.1.1
          15 February 2022 at 3:00 pm

          It was a symbol of a people and their way of life.

          Yup. That way of life primarily based around slavery.

      • Robert Guyton 3.3.2
        15 February 2022 at 11:17 am

        We have to know what the bearer of the flag believes the flag to represent.

        • Shanreagh 3.3.2.1
          15 February 2022 at 12:19 pm

          On another MB I did explore this with people who saw no harm in the flag. Most believed it was a flag 'to stick to da man', whoever 'da man' was ie authority. Most were truly horrified when I posted the history of it.

          I have seen it at events that can only be described as those of the good ol boys (involving guns) where it is very definitely flown in full knowledge of its racist meaning. It surely is offensive to have it flown alongside all the Maori flags at this protest.

          There were a couple of showings of the yellow Gadsden flag, I think on Sunday, also from the US and now also with a less than stellar modern representation

          'The Gadsden flag has appeared at other political protests, too, such as those opposing restrictions on gun ownership and objecting to rules imposed in 2020 to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Most recently the flag has been flown and displayed at some post-election protests, including events where demonstrators called for officials to stop counting votes – and both inside and outside the Capitol building in Washington, D.C., during the counting of the electoral votes on Jan. 6.

          Because of its creator’s history and because it is commonly flown alongside “Trump 2020” flags, the Confederate battle flag and other white-supremacist flags, some may now see the Gadsden flag as a symbol of intolerance and hate – or even racism. If so, its original meaning is then forever lost, but one theme remains.

          At its core, the flag is a simple warning – but to whom, and from whom, has clearly changed. Gone is the original intent to unite the states to fight an outside oppressor. Instead, for those who fly it today, the government is the oppressor."

          https://theconversation.com/yellow-gadsden-flag-prominent-in-capitol-takeover-carries-a-long-and-shifting-history-145142

        • Psycho Milt 3.3.2.2
          15 February 2022 at 1:35 pm

          Oh, they know what it represents alright.

    • vto 3.4
      15 February 2022 at 12:32 pm

      Blade: "People love being offended nowadays, especially the woke.

      The problem with wokisters is they want the world to be as they want it, and people who don't fit that description to be punished, cancelled or abused on social media"

      I call complete bullshit.

      In the recent past, people used to call this "PC gone mad".

      In fact what it is, is people who are tired of being abused standing up for themselves. I say good on them. If you find someone offensive, frikkin' tell them to lay off I say. It is called standing up to bullies and arseholes Blade. Yous have succumbed to the bullies and arseholes not liking being told to naff off and so calling the abused even more names, like wokesters.

      And no, those standing up to crass arseholes aren't seeking to censor or cancel or any such nonsense, what they are saying is "not in my house". As an example, see Neil Young / Joe Rogan – aint no cancellation, just Neil Young exercising his right to not associate with said arsehole. Another example is your link – the tourists are simply exercising their freedoms to not associate and encourage others to do the same.

      It aint woke

      It aint PC gone mad

      It is people standing up to arseholes and bullies. Good on them I say. It is very long overdue

      • Blade 3.4.1
        15 February 2022 at 12:40 pm

        That's a reasonable post. I'll wait and see if others want to comment on your post before replying to you.

      • GreenBus 3.4.2
        15 February 2022 at 12:52 pm

        vto – completely agree with you. Misogynists, racists, bullies, troublemakers and heaps of other behaviours need to be called out. It's not woke at all.

      • Robert Guyton 3.4.3
        15 February 2022 at 1:03 pm

        vto – yours is a reasonable response to Blade provocation.

        My view about the on-going dissembling of convention is that it's inevitable and increasing in speed greatly.

        The "anti-wokes" will be left choking in their own dust.

        That said, we all have dusty corners. We will all be challenged by having to face-up to these essential questions and challenges.

        Negotiating the reefs and clashing cliffs of the realisation that full consciousness means addressing every disturbance to our thus-established-reality, will be and is difficult.

        Some fall at the first jump (Blade, Hide etc.) others will surge forward, mis-stepping now and then, but the path ahead is clear.

        Good on you for speaking up.

        • Blade 3.4.3.1
          15 February 2022 at 3:09 pm

          Just for the record, Robert.

          Do you consider this provocation?’

          ”I don’t see it that way. It was a symbol of a people and their way of life. Just like the violent black and racist fist of the BLM movement.

          I have a demarcation line between Trump the man…and what he did as president.

          ''That he has a Trump poster on the wall puts him in my good books. I'm neutral on the confederate flag. In this link a woke reporter tells him he should get rid of the Trump poster.''

          I forgot about the reporter /interviewer…telling a man what he should do in his own house?

      • Patricia Bremner 3.4.4
        15 February 2022 at 1:35 pm

        Agree with you vto. smiley Those who provoke for their own amusement can take a hike.devil

        • Blade 3.4.4.1
          15 February 2022 at 11:14 pm

          I have followed your comments and come to the conclusion you understand little of what you think you know.

      • Subliminal 3.4.5
        15 February 2022 at 2:49 pm

        Awesome vto. Blade is just another bullying dickhead who believes his own bullshit

  4. Guy Smiley 4
    15 February 2022 at 12:30 pm

    Could someone please direct me to a statement by the New Zealand Green Party or any of their MP's, about Russia's upcoming invasion of the Ukraine, the world doesnt need another war, yet I cant find anything from the Greens.

  6. Corey Humm 6
    15 February 2022 at 1:46 pm

    My issue with big tech listening to the police and refunding fundraising is , if big tech had of been around and listened to the local cops they would have banned the miners from being able to fundraise during their fight against Thatcher.

    Big tech would have helped govts track down draft dodgers. They would have banned MLK, the industrial strikers after the great depression.

    This is not just about these anti mandate protesters it's about American tech companies picking and choosing which protests are legit and listening to the govt they are protesting against.

    Seeing western countries use big tech to hurt protest movements will just embolden actual authoritarian regimes.

    I've donated to heaps of protest movements overseas because of left wing solidarity.

    It's not about this protest it's about future protest movements being squashed out by big tech and govt collusion.

    Think of all the protests movements in the last hundred years, the sit ins the rallys the occupations that would have been stamped out by corporate tech and govt.

    If the powers that be decide to go to war and call a draft will anti war anti draft protesters be attacked in the media, deplatformed in social media?

    If there's another great depression will working class protesters who do a sit in outside parliament have fundraising banned by tech, which is how everything is done these days.

    I'm not defending these protesters but the idea of govts of the day and big tech working together to shut down protests is scary

    And it's the left and working class and oppressed groups that will be stomped on

    So think before you cheer on big tech deciding to ban fundraising for a protest movement, it's a slippery slope, could be climate activists next, unemployment activists, unions, the working class, amnesty international?

    If you give govt and big tech an inch to crack down on protest movements and their fundraising they'll take a ten miles.

    Big tech and Governments are not friends of progressive movements.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    15 February 2022 at 2:51 pm

    Pop culture round up time

    The Rings Of Power trailer dropped and, in conjunction with the pics released of the characters, has proven my prediction (of being shite) absolutely correct (again)

    Having said that if they'd just named it something, anything, else I might have been bothered to watch it but the issue is they're saying Lord Of The Rings, they're using character names and settings and they're ruining it

    Why is there a black, beardless dwarf, what are hobbits Harfoots doing there, why are Harfoots black, why are elves black, why is Galadriel running around swinging a sword

    Why does the trailer look like Game Of Thrones but sound like Star Wars

    The first season is reported to cost 400 million and the total for the series 1 billion, whereas the trilogy movies cost something like 450 million (adjusted for inflation)

    I really want to be wrong about this and I will gladly eat some humble pie on here if it turns out to be good because I like a bit of fantasy

    But it won't, unfortunately

    If you really want to check it out:

      • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1
        15 February 2022 at 3:26 pm

        Steele dossier, Hunter Biden, this…sooner or later the truth will out

        • joe90 8.1.1.1
          15 February 2022 at 3:47 pm

          Trump's accountants quitting and admitting that the accounts they've been producing for years are fraudulent and inaccurate sounds awfully like more than a few truths are outing themselves.

          Donald J. Trump’s longtime accounting firm cut ties with him and his family business last week, saying it could no longer stand behind a decade of annual financial statements it prepared for the Trump Organization, court documents show.

          The decision, which was disclosed to the company in a Feb. 9 letter from the accounting firm, comes amid criminal and civil investigations into whether Mr. Trump illegally inflated the value of his assets. The firm, Mazars USA, compiled the financial statements based on information the former president and his company provided.

          The letter instructed the Trump Organization to essentially retract the documents, known as statements of financial condition, from 2011 to 2020. In the letter, Mazars noted that the firm had not “as a whole” found material discrepancies between the information the Trump Organization provided and the actual value of Mr. Trump’s assets. But given what it called “the totality of circumstances” — including Mazars’ own investigation — the letter directed the Trump Organization to notify anyone who received the statements that they should no longer rely on them.

          https://archive.li/mHjcN (nyt)