Open mike 15/07/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 15th, 2024 - 22 comments
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22 comments on “Open mike 15/07/2024 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    15 July 2024 at 7:59 am

    Interislander: Ministers warned 'careful' talks with Korea needed over ferry cancellations

    "Careful and deliberate communications with the Korean Government would be required in advance of any public announcement," it said.

    The following Monday, the decision was made at Cabinet to rescind the provisional funding the previous government had promised. Willis announced it via press release, about 3.30pm on the Wednesday, 13 December.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/522144/interislander-ministers-warned-careful-talks-with-korea-needed-over-ferry-cancellations

    Willis so mindset/fixated (toyota corolla and wurds !? ) on not getting Rail appropriate …that it was seemingly not only burn bridges with Korea, burn everything..!

    • Tiger Mountain 1.1
      15 July 2024 at 9:56 am

      Yes, the Natzos may well end up presiding over the dismantling of viable Maritime and Rail transport links between our two main Islands.

  2. aj 2
    15 July 2024 at 10:28 am

    … burn bridges with Korea …

    Thank you MattB for summing it up.

    Hopefully he has the sense to see we are better to pay 550 million (Maybe more with penalties) to own two ferries than pay 450 million plus to have nothing except a bad international reputation.

    https://x.com/mobiusmat/status/1812612183945355555

    • alwyn 2.1
      15 July 2024 at 4:33 pm

      Supposing that we did go ahead and buy the ferries, at whatever price it turned out to be, what would you do with them?

      You would have a couple of boats that could not be berthed in either Wellington or Blenheim. They couldn't take or unload vehicles or rail wagons in Blenheim although they could probably moor along side the wharf and swing trailers on board using the container cranes in Wellington.

      I guess you would have lumbered us with a pair of legendary ghost ships. The would be a pair of Flying Dutchmen, never able to make port and doomed to sail the sea forever.

      Or would you stick to your belief in the sunken cost fallacy and throw billions more into the black hole that the Railways Management had created rather than agree that they had messed things up?

      • aj 2.1.1
        15 July 2024 at 4:45 pm

        … what would you do with them…

        Have a long slow read of this.

        https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/128602/brendon-harre-makes-case-taking-minimum-viable-design-approach-could-have

        This discussion piece will make the case that taking a minimum viable design approach could have enabled the mega-ferries project to be progressed.

        • Belladonna 2.1.1.1
          15 July 2024 at 5:06 pm

          So, how come Kiwirail didn't take this approach, and re-work their proposals – both to the last Labour government and the current coalition one?

          Is it that they were incompetent? Blinded by the glory of their vision? Unable to read the political room? Or is it that the actual costs of rebuilding the terminals – to meet the new size demands – really are that great?

          My biggest concern over the whole process – as a complete outsider, with zero technical knowledge – is that moving from 3 ferries to 2, means that your risk of service disruption is greater – if anything happens to one of them. Too many eggs in one basket.

          I would have thought that a 4 ferry solution – scaling up from the current 3 – would have been a better solution. Yes. More costly in operation (4 crews instead of 2) – but with greater resilience. And 4 ferries the size of the current ones – wouldn't have required any infrastructure upgrade at all.

          Yes, they'd have to be specially built. NZ ferry service is across some of the roughest seas in the world – so the level of sea-worthiness required is consequently greater than that needed for calmer regions. But the mega-ferries were having to be specially designed/built as well. I don't see that the costs can have been much greater.

          • KJT 2.1.1.1.1
            15 July 2024 at 8:12 pm

            wouldn't have required any infrastructure upgrade at all.

            The infrastructure is decades old and requires upgrading and earthquake proofing.

            Nationals fuckup is going to end up costing many times more.

            More ships are more costly to run. Two full size ferries are an increase from the current one.

        • alwyn 2.1.1.2
          15 July 2024 at 6:13 pm

          And what would the cost of that be? If they did a full design and still didn't end up with any accuracy to the result why should we expect any more from a back of an envelope design with no number at all for the cost?

          Have a read on the history of the high speed rail proposal for a route from San Francisco to Los Angeles. The original proposal, in 2008 was that it would be built for less than $33 billion. The latest estimate is well over $100 billion and does not include the hardest part of the work at the Pacheco Pass and crossing the San Andreas Fault. The don't appear to have any idea how to build either section but they are happily spending money on the other, easy bits.

          Why do you want to build two ferries with no real idea of what you would have to spend to get something you could use?

      • gsays 2.1.2
        15 July 2024 at 5:00 pm

        There is more than enough $B in the roads of National's importance to fill your imaginary hole.

        • aj 2.1.2.1
          15 July 2024 at 7:06 pm

          These are the costs for Auckland Airport's upgrade. It give context to specialised one-off infrastructure project costs.

          Belladonna, you are ignoring the fact the both terminals are also nearing end of life and will need upgrading no matter what.

          Alwyn just finds a can in the road and kicks it into the ditch – a bit like the CoC are doing. All hat, no cattle.

          The new domestic jet terminal is expected to cost $2.2 billion overall, with a further $1.7 billion to cover the cost of integrating domestic and international travel – a spend that is in line with other comparable airport upgrades around the world.

          “We’ve been careful to benchmark the terminal design against other airports. Like us, airports around the world are underway upgrading infrastructure that was built to manage aircraft flying in the 1960s and 70s.

          https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz/news/latest-media/news-articles/a-new-welcome-inside-auckland-airports-upgrade-of-domestic-jet-travel

  3. Ffloyd 3
    15 July 2024 at 11:00 am

    [deleted]

    [Speculation that adds nothing and is in annoying bold italics font because of a lousy cut & paste job without linking. Have another go on Tuesday – Incognito]

  4. joe90 4
    15 July 2024 at 1:52 pm

    I guess GOP could turn down the temperature.

    @bobcesca_go

    1) Thread. If you're planning your next op/ed and you intend to scold both sides for violent rhetoric, think again and watch the following seven videos. Republicans have been producing violent ads targeting both legislation and actual Democrats for years. Let's review.

    https://x.com/bobcesca_go/status/1812595780173099195

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1812595780173099195.html

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    15 July 2024 at 2:20 pm

    Seems to be a revenge of the nerds scenario: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-rally-shooter-identified-rcna161757

    Loner, constantly bullied at school, gun nut, top dozen in maths & science. Got off 8 shots from his dad's semi-automatic. Someone built a nice platform for him to use, and the security dudes stayed away from it. Understandable that commentators have reached for deep-state theory to explain that, but incompetence is more likely.

  6. Bruce 6
    15 July 2024 at 3:14 pm

    Interesting to see this governments policy of tough on crime in action. From about the 5.40 min mark

  7. Belladonna 7
    15 July 2024 at 4:52 pm

    This is likely to be a highly popular move from the Government – who have clearly given very specific instructions directing Kainga Ora to move on disruptive tenants.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/522094/kainga-ora-evictions-rise-in-crackdown-on-unruly-tenants

    • gsays 7.1
      15 July 2024 at 5:41 pm

      The way this is painted as simple is very cynical politics.

      For sure, there are some arseholes making life a misery for neighbours.

      In the article , no-one mentioned children. Not the minister nor the expert quoted.

      They don't have a choice, stuck with the arsehole regardless.

    • bwaghorn 7.2
      15 July 2024 at 6:56 pm

      It has to be done unfortunately, people can't be subjected to mongrel behavior from next door, hopefully once a line is drawn few will cross it.