Open mike 15/08/2021

55 comments on “Open mike 15/08/2021 ”

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1. Ad 1

   15 August 2021 at 8:35 am

   Developed countries like ourselves are going to get to a post-pandemic and largely vaccinated phase by next year. We need to push our heads into a post-vaccinated state. Maybe concentrate less on whether people can fly in, and concentrate more on the crises we already have.

   Vulnerability to further COVID infections is that such risk runs like a who's who of current public health risk:

   If you are isolated, old, poor, in a tiny town away from healthcare, are generally sick on a few fronts already, you are a much higher COVID risk than others.

   From this New Zealand study of cumulative health risk to COVID from March this year, my own conclusion is that a nationwide health entity that focused on people with these characteristics would be doing everyone a favour already:

   https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03036758.2021.1900294

   "This study confirms important distinctions in vulnerability measures based on health, sociocultural and socioeconomic factors. It demonstrates that many areas of high vulnerability, particularly when considering combinations of older populations and populations with socioeconomic barriers, are outside of the major cities and in smaller communities of New Zealand, which typically have less access to healthcare and fewer resources (Fearnley et al. 2016; Health and Disability System Review 2019) and also attract less attention."

   COVID becomes a summary filter to direct resource over multiple existing population risks.
2. pat 2

   15 August 2021 at 9:27 am

   “I used to think that top global environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse, and climate change. I thought that with 30 years of good science we could address these problems, but I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed, and apathy, and to deal with these we need a spiritual and cultural transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rod-oram-we-cant-afford-not-to-do-net-zero
   • Janet 2.1

     15 August 2021 at 11:48 am

     I agree with you … and a parent at home while the children grow to instil these values / qualities.
3. Cricklewood 3

   15 August 2021 at 9:39 am

   Pushing the Light rail up Dominion road at my local market this morning at least 10 people well versed in talking points.

   Disappointing that when I asked what plans if any will be made to support the residents and small businesses along the route during construction the talking point was a long winded way of saying acceptable losses.

   I dont support the light rail myself and prefer electric buses as a solution but when we embark on these massive infrastructure projects we've got to make sure we look after the local communities. To be told you'll reap the benefits when its complete is cold comfort when youve gone to the wall 12 months in or when your rent/lease doubles with the area now gentrified.
4. I Feel Love 4

   15 August 2021 at 9:40 am

   The Rich As Fuck Hurricanes guy got "cancelled", the "lefty woke" win again, if only there was a Stand Up For Racists group for him to whine too…
5. Adrian Thornton 5

   15 August 2021 at 10:05 am

   As usual western MSM report just part of the news……(including our own "progressive" RNZ National)

   Turns out the US withdrawal from Afghanistan involves bombing the country with Boeing B-52 Stratofortress, while also spreading terror and death with Reaper drones and AC-130 Spectre gunships…

   US B-52 Bombers, Gunships Sent into Action in Afghanistan in Attempt to Stop Taliban Advance on Key Cities

   https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/08/08/us-b-52-bombers-gunships-sent-action-afghanistan-attempt-stop-taliban-advance-key-cities.html

   And of course the CIA has vowed to keep a presence in the country…which again goes largely unreported by MSM…

   With The U.S. Military Gone, The CIA Faces Tough Challenges In Afghanistan

   https://www.npr.org/2021/07/12/1014542248/with-the-u-s-military-gone-the-cia-faces-tough-challenges-in-afghanistan

   There is good reason why the world see the USA as sure a clear and present threat to world peace…

   Much Of The World Sees The U.S. As A Threat To Democracy

   https://www.npr.org/2021/05/05/993754397/poll-much-of-the-world-sees-the-u-s-as-a-threat-to-democracy
   • The Al1en 5.1

     15 August 2021 at 10:10 am

     And yet I'd bet the cia, u.s bombs and drones are the least of the Afghan people's worries right about now, especially women and girls.
     • Adrian Thornton 5.1.1

       15 August 2021 at 10:29 am

       ….oh thats right, according to your world view, US bombs kill and rip apart Afghan woman and girls bodies in a far more humane way…just like they have been doing for the past twenty years.
       • The Al1en 5.1.1.1

         15 August 2021 at 10:44 am

         Just showing sympathy for the women and girls who now face a TBan future with curtailed freedoms, rights and the denial of education to be nothing more than property of and controlled by men.

         So not really about my "world view" (or Andre’s for that matter – which you dropped from your first attempt at a reply), a conclusion you've erroneously jumped to, though I'd say yours may need a closer inspection, seeing how you appear to be more concerned in pushing anti msm thought speak than empathising with the poorest and most vulnerable knowing their terrible time ahead.
         • Adrian Thornton 5.1.1.1.1

           15 August 2021 at 11:05 am

           OK then Mr empathetic..how about you direct us all to your comments where you display your deep rooted “sympathy” for thousands of women and girls killed in US drone strikes..or this illegal US/UK invasion generally?…or is it as I suspect, as per usual, some media tells you to be suddenly concerned for the lives of these unfortunate peoples…so now you are.

           Anyway just throw a couple of links for us to see your “sympathy for the women and girls” destroyed before the US withdrawal…

           Death by Drone: America’s Vicious Legacy in Afghanistan

           As the United States prepares to leave, thousands of killings remain unprobed, and Washington refuses to talk about them.

           https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/27/afghanistan-drones-america-legacy-taliban/

           U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

           https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones-idUSKBN1W40NW

           This wouldn't have even made it on to RNZ, yet I am very sure that if the Taliban execute 30 civilians now we will all hear about it…don’t you get or understand the relentless false equivalences that we are force feed daily?…yes the Taliban are ruthless fundamentalist…but so are the US, the only difference is that this is happening in the Taliban’s own country while the US/UK are foreign invaders engaged in a illegal war.
           • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.1.1

             15 August 2021 at 11:22 am

             I'm always concerned by the suffering of innocents whatever side of the divide they fall on, no matter who is the aggressor, no matter what is the cause. Sorry if it poops all over your myopic grandstanding but I don't need (or ever have) a newspaper or tv show to tell me how to sympathise for victims.

             Instead of posting links about how bad bombs and missiles are, which is a bit duh, as we already know, how about you show a little humanity and declare some support, show some love, or express your fears for those about to be plunged back into the dark ages.
             • Subliminal …

               15 August 2021 at 3:15 pm

               The dark ages are what Afghanistan experiences every time an imperialist power believes it can use military force to impose its will on the Afghani people. If you think that the corrupt and criminally insane people that have been running the country have any sympathy for the fate of women and girls then you are seriously delusional. The situation there is changing very quickly but the response of Ghani to the advance of the Taliban is to team up with the US supported war criminal Rashid Dostum. This man is responsible for locking hundreds of prisoners in shipping containers and leaving them to asphyxiate. There is nothing simple about Afghanistan.
               • The Al1en …

                 15 August 2021 at 4:41 pm

                 If you think that the corrupt and criminally insane people that have been running the country have any sympathy for the fate of women and girls then you are seriously delusional.

                 I've made no such claim and the rest of your post doesn't alter the sentiment I've expressed.
           • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.1.2

             15 August 2021 at 11:29 am

             Oh, and is December 2014 far enough back?

             The women and girls raped, tortured, killed and/or taken as bounty of war to be disposed of as chattel thank you for your support.

             I don’t think NZ should be involved in amerika’s unilateral wars, but do think the UN should be peace keeping it’s arse off in Iraq and Syria or wherever the vulnerable are being so abused, protecting the basic human rights of women and children
             • Adrian Thornton …

               15 August 2021 at 12:01 pm

               ahh the good old days when you could call someone a cunt on TS, btw I would have sided with Chooky in that debate, but I have to go to work now so won't take that any further.

               The moderation in that link was really good too, not overbearing constant and boring like it is often now…nothing wrong with getting fired up and passionate about important issues and letting a few F bombs fly to make your point IMO!
               • The Al1en …

                 15 August 2021 at 12:05 pm

                 So I answered your demand with an ancient The Standard link.

                 Maybe when you come back on you can hit us up with a short line or two backing the Afghan women and girls about to be subjugated.
               • Incognito …

                 15 August 2021 at 12:26 pm

                 Funny that you should say that because I was thinking about a Mod note to you. However, it seems this is no longer necessary because you’re working now

                 FYI, strong language is generally not a reason to moderate unless it is highly likely (as in: obvious) that it is flaming and will descend into a shit fight.

                 Strong language and particularly personal attacks and insults without making a political point have no place in debate, not even robust debate. As such, they are likely to attract attention of Mods.

                 Some commenters are on the Mods’ radar, with notes shared in the back-end, because of their commenting behavioural pattern here on this site.

                 You know these things and yet you think you can have a dig at moderation that is not even accurate!?
     • Treetop 5.1.2

       15 August 2021 at 12:12 pm

       Women and girls age 12 – 45 are being taken and forced to marry by the Taliban. Last I heard is that the Taliban now control 22 out of 34 provincial capitals.

       Another Vietnam senario now that the US has pulled out. The US in Afganistan for the last 20 years is not the answer either.

       Destroying the poppies used for making herion would have reduced the fire power.

       What I want for Afganistan is for people to live in peace. No more bombs, drones or weapons.
       • aom 5.1.2.1

         15 August 2021 at 3:04 pm

         "Destroying the poppies used for making heroin would have reduced the fire power."

         The only regime that stopped the heroin production was the Taliban. They managed a 99% reduction in the area of opium poppy farming in Taliban-controlled areas. That was roughly three quarters of the world's supply of heroin at the time. The ban was effective only briefly due to the US invasion 2002. Pity they only had one reliable (mainly US financed?) income stream to bide their time and re-arm to take their own country back.

         Apart from the word of traumatised refugees pouring into Kabul in the hope of getting out of the country, is there any hard evidence to prove that women and girls age 12 – 45 are being taken and forced to marry by the Taliban? On checking out international MSM, one source quotes a nebulous 'insider' while most have almost 'cut and paste' regularity in their reports.

         In raising this, the interest is in accuracy. It is not suggested that forced marriages are not or will not occur.
         • Treetop 5.1.2.1.1

           15 August 2021 at 3:59 pm

           I think those fleeing Afganistan or seeking safety in Kabul know what the situation is for girls and women.

           I will try and look up where I heard the age of girls and women taken into forced marriage and lists being compiled. Either Aljazeera TV or a news article earlier in the week.

           Maybe you need to go and ask some immigrants/refugees from Afganistan what the news is from their country of birth.
   • garibaldi 5.2

     15 August 2021 at 12:00 pm

     Go Adrian. Thank you.
     • In Vino 5.2.1

       15 August 2021 at 9:22 pm

       For what it is worth, my perception of the first difference between USA's crap intervention in Vietnam and its crap intervention in Afghanistan (both roughly 20 yrs) is that the women in Vietnam did not unduly suffer as they are likely to do in Afghanistan after the USA running away (Peace with Honour!)

       Tragic.
6. Chris T 6

   15 August 2021 at 10:23 am

   Bit of a micro rant sorry

   In the past I have been quite open in my thinking Faafoi was one of a few Labour MPs I genuinely thought was a bit of a gem in amongst the idiots, and I genuinely rated him.

   But his refusal to front on immigration now and the mess he has made of things has turned that respect a bit to custard.

   Still seems a decent bloke, just a shit Minister.

   Edit: Sorry, should add watching the Nation and he refused to front again.
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     15 August 2021 at 10:35 am

     You are not wrong. Chris Faafoi is a good Minister who has been given the most contentious policy to deal with. Our borders are our weakness and our strength, and it needs courage and grit to withstand the huge pressures that came with the role. That is why he was chosen. He can not be coerced or corrupted. Exactly what we need until the vaccines are in arms.
     • Chris T 6.1.1

       15 August 2021 at 10:42 am

       Agree, but he seems to have caved to the pressure, and that is disappointing.

       Having said that if I was in charge at the time I probably would have given him it to.

       So there ya go. every thing is easy in retrospect and that.
     • Anne 6.1.2

       15 August 2021 at 11:03 am

       I think also Patricia that the country is reaching a crucial tipping point with both Covid and Climate Change in the mix and I have lately also been wondering how much of a correlation there is between the two.

       I watched Q&A this morning (which was devoted to Covid) and there were some excellent interviews from a range of experts covering a variety of aspects.

       My impression is: the government is working through some mega decision-making which is going to affect the governance of this country for many years to come. In the meantime, no-one is prepared to speak until such a time the threads have been pulled together and the announcements can be made. That is my reading of what is going on anyway.
       • Chris T 6.1.2.1

         15 August 2021 at 11:11 am

         Going just by current form I think this might be a bit wishful thinking, unfortunately.

         Their tendency to close shop on anything important started pre-covid.
       • Janet 6.1.2.2

         15 August 2021 at 12:19 pm

         Yes Anne, both the Climate Calamity and Covid suppression are requiring a lot of restraint , re-evaluation and adjustment to the way we have been living on earth. In a perverse way Covid is accelerating the acknowledgement that we have passed the natural boundaries and have been pushing earth beyond her limits to sustain life on earth perpetually. Its a good time to push hard on the people to change their ways and lower their expectations about what to demand from life on earth.
         • Anne 6.1.2.2.1

           15 August 2021 at 4:42 pm

           In a perverse way Covid is accelerating the acknowledgement that we have passed the natural boundaries and have been pushing earth beyond her limits to sustain life on earth perpetually.

           That is exactly what I was meaning but didn't quite know how to put it.

           It is my suspicion pandemics are going to become more frequent and severe just as storms across the planet are going to increase in frequency and severity and the two are closely linked.

           How say you now climate deniers who have caused so much damage and distress on a dying planet? Any sign of shame and culpability? Or are you still living in a little rose-tinted fake bubble of your own?
           • DB Brown 6.1.2.2.1.1

             15 August 2021 at 8:31 pm

             They're still in their bubble, and hunkering down as if they're victims of a giant conspiracy. And only they know the TRUTH.

             Some idiot today arguing warming is good for the planet, because plants use CO2. And he's got a link to a scientist on youtube…

             He asked 'where are your statistics!' Apparently the IPCC isn't good enough, but if I could just pull a new report out of my ass.

             Another asked me 'What data set are you following?'

             It's laughable if it wasn't so damnably dangerous. I'm beginning to detest these clowns, but hope my rant helps bring that down, as anger sure wont shut them down it just magnifies the victimhood.

             Notice how many of the assholes claim they are victims these days? And they run in packs. Fucking 'social' media.
7. Patricia Bremner 7

   15 August 2021 at 10:42 am

   Does anyone know whether Shearer is thinking of a tilt at the Auckland Mayoralty?

   My disgust at his previous attitudes came flooding back!!
   • Chris T 7.1

     15 August 2021 at 10:47 am

     "disgust at his previous attitudes came"

     Sorry, do you mind elaborating on that?

     I actually thought he was alright, but may have missed the obvious. (wouldn't be first tbh) 🙂
     • fender 7.1.1

       15 August 2021 at 12:02 pm

       He once made a comment about someone receiving ACC making repairs or painting their roof. Can't have been true, just like I never saw a mates dad build a boat while he was on ACC with a bad back.
       • McFlock 7.1.1.1

         15 August 2021 at 3:57 pm

         What seemed to piss people off was the assumption that not being able to work a full day at one's job necessarily means that one can't do some work at one's own convenience. Which is a bit much to tear one's hair out over.

         I think a lot of it was a beat-up that was part of the factionalisation in Labour/leftists at the time (still heavily factionalised, but there's no anointed one who will lead us to sicialist paradise at the moment), and obviously a it's shitbucket our local tory agitators like to kick over every so often.
   • Cricklewood 7.2

     15 August 2021 at 11:46 am

     Cant be worse then Phil 'rogernome' Goff
   • fender 7.3

     15 August 2021 at 11:57 am

     I have no idea, nor am I able to vote in Auckland mayoral elections, but I would urge all decent voters to back Shearer if the despicable P. Bennett enters the race as has been rumored.
     • Chris T 7.3.1

       15 August 2021 at 12:31 pm

       I can't vote either, but both Shearer and Bennett would be better options to me if I could than Goff.
       • alwyn 7.3.1.1

         15 August 2021 at 2:37 pm

         I would definitely go with Shearer. He was the only really good Labour MP since Douglas, Prebble and Bassett were in Parliament. I think he would make an excellent Mayor for Auckland.

         Pity Shearer was nobbled by Cunliffe wasn't it? He would have been a good PM if he had been left there through the 2014 election and by 2017 he could hopefully have mastered the job and cleaned out the Labour party dross in Parliament and we could have got a competent Government in 2017.

         Still on, the bright side, Auckland has a decent chance of getting a competent leader.
         • aom 7.3.1.1.1

           15 August 2021 at 3:11 pm

           The obvious choice would be Bomber Bradbury's pick – Efeso Collins.
           • In Vino 7.3.1.1.1.1

             15 August 2021 at 9:28 pm

             When Shearer was silly enough to turn up in parliament with two dead fish dangling on each arm and that look on his face, I knew he could never win any election. Get real.
             • Anne …

               15 August 2021 at 10:34 pm

               He adviser was John Pagani of Josie Pagani fame. Need I say more.
               • In Vino …

                 15 August 2021 at 11:31 pm

                 You need not. But Josie will still be trotted out as a 'Left' commentator by our supposedly neutral media, won't she?
                 • Anne …

                   15 August 2021 at 11:44 pm

                   Saw her a few months back on some TV programme. Still talks gobbledygook.
     • Cricklewood 7.3.2

       15 August 2021 at 12:37 pm

       They'll be as shit as each other, we need a strong mayor prepared to go to battle with Central govt, Auckland transport and Watercare, party aligned Mayors wont always act in the best interests of Aucklanders
       • Chris T 7.3.2.1

         15 August 2021 at 2:16 pm

         Nice thought, but given the neverending line of idiots, can't see that happening.
     • Anne 7.3.3

       15 August 2021 at 10:28 pm

       Yes. Shearer was the victim of some very bad advice over the roof painting incident. John Pagani anyone? I've met David a few times and found him a very pleasant person. I'd trust him over the other former politician.
8. joe90 8

   15 August 2021 at 12:47 pm

   Meanwhile, in Tahiti…
9. Molly 9

   15 August 2021 at 12:59 pm

   Sunday viewing for those interested in housing. A 1994 Adam Curtis documentary that takes a retrospective look at the Harold Wilson led Labour government housing policies:

   The Great British Housing Disaster

   (From my perspective, a good example of why a hands-off, subsidy based approach without strict oversight will deliver expensive failures (both in financial and human costs).
   • Molly 9.1

     15 August 2021 at 1:57 pm

     Of particular relevance is the end segment on using untried cladding systems as solutions to structural failures.
   • pat 9.2

     15 August 2021 at 8:00 pm

     Ah…but this time will be different…..except we know from experience it seldom is.
10. pat 10

    15 August 2021 at 9:24 pm

    Kabul about to be under Taliban control…weeks ahead of even recent expectations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/15/afghanistan-taliban-close-in-on-kabul-as-last-government-stronghold-in-north-falls

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • McFlock 10.1

      15 August 2021 at 9:49 pm

      Fucking tragic. Twenty years, thousands of lives, and back to the beginning.
    • pat 10.2

      15 August 2021 at 9:58 pm

      Oops…thought I had posted this in open mike.
      • Incognito 10.2.1

        15 August 2021 at 10:01 pm

        No worries, I’ll move it to OM, so don’t get a fright.
11. Incognito 11

    15 August 2021 at 10:47 pm

    “It is a symbiotic [my italics] relationship, to attract the business we need the housing and to attract the residents you need jobs and so we have reached that point now where we have got strong inquiry on both fronts,” he said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300381450/zombie-towns-get-new-lease-of-life-as-hostile-cities-force-residents-out

    Crikey! Are they reading The Standard?

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