Open mike 15/08/2024

77 comments on “Open mike 15/08/2024 ”

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1. SPC 1

   15 August 2024 at 7:52 am

   Changes coming, but no consultation with those in the disability sector … transferring oversight to MSD … the politics of the sacrifice of targeted groups for the good of the landlord class and its camp followers.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350378945/anxious-wait-disabled-communities-expect-cuts-following-whaikaha-review
   • Tiger Mountain 1.1

     15 August 2024 at 8:27 am

     Just when you thought the CoC vandals could not go much lower, they manage to scrape the barrel a bit more and attack the disabled community!!

     Baldrick Luxon–7 luxury pads no less–really does seem to enjoy putting the boot into vulnerable people, who he as a prosperity christian, likely sees as losers that will certainly not be going to his version of the afterlife.
     • Rolling-on-Gravel 1.1.1

       15 August 2024 at 2:14 pm

       This is making me feel afraid for the future as a disabled person.

       I shout so much and get so angry publicly because this is so damn important that we must band together against the bandits in charge lest they slip into worse quagmires of banal evil.

       What this government is doing is banally evil.

       We must all stand up to this odious government in every way.
2. gsays 2

   15 August 2024 at 8:31 am

   Ingrid Hopkins uncritically presents a 'good news story’.

   Changes around RSE workers are presented and defended.

   If I have the story straight. On one hand fruit picking is such a job that the industry wants to pay the minimum wage.

   On the other, it contains such complexities that the workers will be at that rate for up to two full seasons before being eligible for an increase of wages.

   Meanwhile the numbers have increased at the same time as the government puts punitive measures on those seeking work.

   Remember when you read labour shortage they mean a wage shortage.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018951244/govt-to-raise-cap-on-seasonal-workers-coming-to-nz
   • dv 2.1

     15 August 2024 at 8:38 am

     Remember when you read labour shortage they mean a wage shortage.

     Yes great line.
   • Belladonna 2.2

     15 August 2024 at 11:28 am

     I think that we have a lot of evidence that job-seeking kiwis won't even apply for, let along stay in, these roles.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113872851/why-the-meat-and-fruitpicking-sectors-are-missing-out-on-kiwi-employees

     Some of it is because the jobs are in the regions (so no use for someone in Central Auckland who's unwilling to shift seasonally). Some of it is because they are pretty much dead-end jobs (seasonal workers are just there for the pay-cheque).

     Perhaps you could provide some evidence that there are significant numbers of people who are actually missing out on these jobs, before you cue the outrage.
     • gsays 2.2.1

       15 August 2024 at 12:23 pm

       Just think it through.

       For anyone to do a seasonal job, they have to be able to: pay for their accommodation at their home area,

       get a replacement for any family support they are providing,

       transport from home to the orchards,

       food and living costs at the orchard, all on the minimum wage.

       Outrage is for the hypocricy if this regime for the bullying, punitive sanctions while still having the inflation tap on full.

       We all know there is an uneven playing field comparing recent arrival workers with someone called a job seeker.
       • Belladonna 2.2.1.1

         15 August 2024 at 2:18 pm

         I agree. That's why I think the outrage expressed by the OP against the migrant seasonal workers is misplaced.

         I seriously doubt that they are contributing to keeping the 'inflation tap on full'
         • gsays 2.2.1.1.1

           15 August 2024 at 3:28 pm

           I think I have been misunderstood. Sorry I wasn’t clearer.

           I do hold a strong view on migration but none of it is against the migrants themselves. They contribute to the beautiful, diverse and colourful migrant country that Aotearoa is.

           My scorn is for the employers that run a business model that needs minimum wage workers and successive governments that run record migration without the requisite investment in infrastructure.

           Schools, hospitals, ferry ports, housing. All of which could be done by a Ministry of Works, which, incidentally could employ some of these job seekers.
           • Belladonna 2.2.1.1.1.1

             15 August 2024 at 8:41 pm

             I think that there is a difference between workers in the seasonal scheme (who, by and large are doing jobs that most kiwis won't do) – and other temporary workers (thinking of tourism buisnesses like skiing), where they both take jobs that are attractive to Kiwis, and occupy housing which is in short supply.

             I'm not 100% happy with the seasonal scheme, but I don't see a real alternative. Even if the salary was doubled (which, BTW, would follow through into food prices locally), these jobs aren't desirable. Seen as dead end. In the 'wrong' place. Seasonal. And, TBH, if you've ever done picking work as a school holiday job (putting my hand up here), just darned hard work.
             • Descendant Of Smith …

               16 August 2024 at 3:40 pm

               Plenty of New Zealanders go and work picking and packing in the seasons every year. You can clearly see this in the benefit numbers for Bay of Plenty, Hawke's Bay or Nelson which go up and down with the seasons. Pick any of those regions.

               https://www.data.msd.govt.nz/?_inputs_&benefits-name=%22Jobseeker%20Support%20Work%20Ready%22&benefits-tabset=%22trend%22&benefits-areatype=%22MSD%20region%22&benefits-area=%22Bay%20of%20Plenty%22

               Do workers leave during the season? – yep my kids a good example. They picked fruit (one on an orchard without toilets) but left during the season as they got full-time permanent work. RSE workers don't have that option. Others workers left cause they were pinched by other orchardists – they (the orchardists) don't want to talk about that and still others left at third pick cause down the road they were doing first pick and they could make more money in a short season. RSE workers don't have that option. NZ workers get erratic hours cause RSE workers have to be guaranteed 30 hours NZer's do not.

               Orchardists will whine about my kids leaving their orchard while at the same time whinging in the usual right wing way if you don't like low pay and want to get ahead then get a better job.
               • Belladonna …

                 18 August 2024 at 11:18 am

                 The fact that there are Kiwis in the regions picking up seasonal work, does zip for those unemployed in the main centres. They're effectively unavailable for this work.

                 Your kids leaving for a better job (higher paying, guaranteed hours, etc.) is exactly why the seasonal workers are needed. They're tied into a contract, you're kids are not (and, I'm pretty sure you'd mightily object to them being tied down to work for a season – with no option out). Picking is a low wage, dead-end job. There's not much you can do about this.

                 If you want Kiwis to do this work – then you have a few options – none of which are entirely palatable.

                 • Pay more. Which flows onto increased prices for food in NZ & therefore drives the kind of inflation which impacts on the real cost of living for all of us.
                 • Relocate unemployed people from the urban centres to work on these seasonal contracts. I'm sure you can imagine all the ways that this can go wrong, just as well as I can.
                 • Require people (like your kids) to sign up for a whole season – so everyone has certainty of hours and of labour. Not seeing a whole lot of desire from anyone for this option.

                 While people aren't keen on the RSE schemes (for a whole lot of reasons) – I'm not seeing anyone coming up with a viable alternative.

                 Do you have one?
                 • Descendant Of Smith …

                   18 August 2024 at 4:03 pm

                   Perhaps you could provide some evidence that there are significant numbers of people who are actually missing out on these job

                   Did you look at the graphs? Plenty of local people in those areas have done and do this work. See how the NZ numbers drop less each season though as RSE numbers increase. Do you think people with years of experience working picking fruit and in packhouses suddenly said one day "fuck it, I'm not going to work there any more. I'll just sit on a benefit" or do you think it more likely as RSE numbers increased and employers could get money back off them for all sorts of costs that fewer locals were employed.

                   Prior to RSE many orchardists used illegal labour and contractors who never paid the PAYE, student loan money etc to IRD – the orchardists always knew this – they are as bad as the liquor store outlets, restaurants and dairies holding peoples passports and doing the same.

                   Has gone from around a 2,000 drop in a season in Bay of Plenty to 1,000 a season.

                   The better option surely would be to let them fail like other non-competitive industries we have let fail in the past. Then maybe money can go into something more productive.

                   Oh and the prices go up when international prices go up – nothing to do with local supply and demand – in fact they deliberately don't use supply and demand in local pricing but refuse to pick the production and/or sell locally in order to inflate prices. An orchardist a couple of years back was quite clear in the media they wouldn't release their produce on the local market in order to keep prices up. 80% are exported so local pricing isn't that important to most.

                   We no longer have car industries clothing industries, etc. Any reason state intervention is still enabling the apple industry? Isn't that socialism?

                   The other options are of course robotics which many have invested in to lift productivity. Maybe just maybe without state intervention to give them cheaper labour and wage get-back schemes they may have done this sooner.

                   https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/2066-robots-for-horticulture
                   • Belladonna …

                     19 August 2024 at 10:38 am

                     Robotics is an interesting solution. It would, of course, leave all of those Kiwi seasonal workers unemployed.

                     Were you as opposed to the RSE scheme when Labour reinstated it, during Covid lockdowns?

                     https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/one-way-quarantine-free-travel-rse-workers-starting-october

                     Your figures show that there are *some* Kiwi workers who are willing to work seasonally – not that there are enough to do the whole of the job.

                     And, it was perfectly clear during that same Covid travel restriction period, that there simply weren't enough local workers to do the job. Regardless of how much was paid.

                     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/432284/lack-of-nz-workers-an-issue-for-orchardists-with-covid-restrictions

                     Which is why the government opened up the RSE scheme again.

                     You do realize that NZ depends on agricultural exports – to pay for all of the nice to have things which support our lifestyle.
3. Jimmy 3

   15 August 2024 at 8:39 am

   August is a good month for the average person with PAYE rates reducing from 31st of July and mortgage rates reducing for those on a floating rate. Things are looking up!
   • gsays 3.1

     15 August 2024 at 9:57 am

     "Things are looking up!"

     Rates, insurance, public transport costs, prescription charges….

     You're right, things are up.
     • Jimmy 3.1.1

       15 August 2024 at 11:20 am

       Yes but if Labour was still in government, you would still have the large rates and insurance increases, but would have no relief from PAYE (in fact Grant would probably have increased the ACC levies part) and probably no interest rate reduction either, so yes I think things are looking up for the average person. Try going to a Chemist Warehouse if you are concerned about prescription charges.
       • Obtrectator 3.1.1.1

         15 August 2024 at 12:59 pm

         Lots of people may well go and do that. And then, come the day the last independent pharmacist has been driven out of business because they can't afford the loss-leader tactic of waiving prescription charges, the Chemist Warehouse (and other big chains), slavering at the mouth with anticipation, will promptly whack that $5 on again.
       • Barfly 3.1.1.2

         15 August 2024 at 1:25 pm

         Well Jimmy if labour were still in government the reserve bank would still be taking into account employment and we would not have had an orgy of firings in the public service my superannuation wouldn't have been grinched by the government we would still have reduced cost public transport for many more than get it now cigarette companies wouldn't be celebrating their minions in government making them $$ we wouldn't have police officers and medical professionals wasting their time on back office work and we wouldn't have the spectacle of RW sociopaths punching down on the weakest in our society. Nazi's were big fans of social darwinsm so is this RW government.
   • Rodel 3.2

     15 August 2024 at 10:41 am

     Jimy -pathetica ttempt at PR .don't give up your day job.
     • Incognito 3.2.1

       15 August 2024 at 11:12 am

       When PR is a euphemism for trolling.
       • Jimmy 3.2.1.1

         15 August 2024 at 11:29 am

         Is having a different opinion counted as "trolling"?

         If everyone just agrees with each other, then there is really no need for discussion as it would just be a group of people agreeing with each other and complaining (about everything the government does) and will probably just reduce in size over time with less and less people making a comment that is not in line with the 'required' narrative and will probably end up disappearing. .
         • Incognito 3.2.1.1.1

           15 August 2024 at 12:05 pm

           Are you honestly suggesting that you’re doing TS a favour by trollishly spouting CoC propaganda and talking points masquerading as ‘your opinion’!?

           Please stop insulting our intelligence – I can’t wait for you to disappear back under the bridge where you came from.
   • Tony P 3.3

     15 August 2024 at 10:47 am

     $2.50 on my pension, nothing on my 10hr a week job. Rates, insurance, power groceries all going up so not looking up really. Lucky to have no mortgage and some savings.
     • Jimmy 3.3.1

       15 August 2024 at 11:22 am

       Don't you get a payment towards your electricity? My retired mother in law does.
       • Macro 3.3.1.1

         15 August 2024 at 11:50 am

         A payment introduced in 2017 by the Labour Govt.

         But don't let that stop you claiming it as a NACTNZFIST initiative.

         They have had to retain it as they would quickly loose half their support if they cancelled it.
         The Winter Energy Payment was first available in 2018 for 13 weeks from 1 July until 30 September. In subsequent years it has been available for 22 weeks from 1 May until 30 September. Nearly 98% of people eligible for the payment receive it, and the annual cost was about $450m in 2019.
         https://www.motu.nz/assets/Uploads/ExecSummary_impact-2018-Families-Package-Winter-Energy-Payment.pdf
         • Jimmy 3.3.1.1.1

           15 August 2024 at 12:27 pm

           The majority of commenters on this site see everything National does is bad and everything Labour does is good. I don't see it that way. I think the winter energy payment is a good idea by Labour. Another really good idea by Labour was Kiwi Saver.

           I'm not set in stone hard right wing or hard left wing. But as I said above, disagreeing with a Labour policy on here no matter how stupid you think it is (eg. GST on Fruit & Vege) gets you labelled as a right wing troll.
           • Macro 3.3.1.1.1.1

             15 August 2024 at 1:04 pm

             OK give us one good thing this CofC Govt has done since its election, that has been of benefit to the more disadvantaged in our country and has not been directly targeted at the wealthy. eg The tax breaks were primarily targeted at high income earners and not at those on low to middle comes.

             Another example -The cancellation of fuel taxes in Auckland is short term gain for those who use cars for the majority of their travel around the city but the resulting cancellation of money for the development of transport infrastructure that that fuel tax was enabling, means more heavy congestion on roads already failing to cope during peak hour travel.

             Fact is this current incompetent and useless bunch of pricks haven't a f****** clue as to the damage they are wrecking on NZ. But simply smile and say things are looking up and it will come right in the end. It's just so much bullshit.
             • Belladonna …

               15 August 2024 at 1:59 pm

               From your perspective, everything that a centre right government does, is by definition, bad. Or can you give examples of previous right-wing policies which you approve of?

               Have to say that the charter school initiative, and the revision of the curriculum (focus on reading, writing, maths) is going down very well with many people I know. Including some very left wing parents. It's amazing how much you stop supporting teacher union rhetoric, once your kid is caught in the gears of a failing education system.

               Really, you can't argue that this is for the benefit of the wealthy (they're already sending their kids to private schools, or have default private schools resulting from their Decile 10 housing location).
               • tWig …

                 15 August 2024 at 2:36 pm

                 Can you name the benefit of for-profit education, Belladonna, which is what charter schools introduce? Look to the UK and Australia, both with 2-tier schooling systems, and for-profit education heavily subsidised by taxpayers, (in Australia at a greater amount than equivalent state schools) to see how this approach deepens economic and social division in society. And a common curriculum helps create a common society. The Aussie 2-tier system has quantifiable effects on societal inequity.

                 Plus, there may be state schools forced into the charter school system, according to Seymour's comments earlier this year. This CoC charter school policy is not sought by most people in the education system, or by most parents, but is being introduced for ideological and financial reasons.

                 Parents already have a chance to send their kids to special interest schools.
                 • Belladonna …

                   15 August 2024 at 3:09 pm

                   Can you name a benefit of continuing with the currently failing state school system.

                   And, if parents already have a chance to send their kids to 'special interest schools' (what would these be, I wonder) – why all the angst about charter schools?

                   If you'll examine the history of charter schools previously in NZ – you'll see that they were not on the 'for profit' model, but were rather small organizations set up to deal with specific educational styles. Why do you think it will be different this time?

                   Indeed a significant MoE concern is specifically that the organizations *won't* be business focused.

                   Ministry of Education had warned careful planning would be needed over curriculum regulation and governance, as previous experience showed many charter schools were started by small organisations that lacked money and business experience.

                   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/david-seymour-says-78-applications-received-for-new-or-converted-charter-schools/4MQ7STKUXFEQHOJSIMFV6CQIHQ/

                   Not seeing any evidence that schools will be 'forced' to become charter schools. Indeed the demand seems to be greater than forecast – so no need to force anyone.

                   I can see why the educational establishment is threatened – yet another flavour of school system wildly outperforming their members – why are you?
                   • Muttonbird …

                     15 August 2024 at 3:41 pm

                     Not for profit, eh? Alwyn and Karen Poole, charter school founders, of the Villa Education Trust :

                     PPTA’s long standing concerns about charter school management’s lack of accountability are vindicated by an Auditor-General’s report.

                     Some of the truth has now come out with the report late last year of an inquiry by the Auditor-General into the payment of $450,000 by a school board to a trust on which its members were trustees.

                     The board, charged with overseeing the transition to the state system of two former charter schools*, South Auckland Middle School and Middle School West Auckland, paid $450,000 in ‘management fees’ to the Villa Education Trust which was made up of exactly the same people as the transition board.

                     https://www.ppta.org.nz/news-and-media/truth-will-out/

                     *So they paid themselves $450,000 of public money in 2017 and the Auditor-General wasn't happy.

                     Coincidentally, around 2017, the Pooles bought their first house and side business in Russell:

                     The place the Pooles bought, Titore Lodge, is in a lush garden setting with sea views and access to a private beach cove. It is a collection of four units, three of which the Pooles rent out on AirBnB.

                     https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability/123589681/i-bought-my-first-home-in-my-50s–dont-expect-the-govt-to-help

                     Nice work if you can get it.
                   • Macro …

                     16 August 2024 at 10:50 am

                     I have had lifetime of service in Education and Training at all levels from primary to tertiary in administration and the classroom. I have post graduate degrees in Education. I can find no serious evidence to suggest that students who are enrolled in these so called "charter schools" do any better than if they were enrolled in state or public schools.

                     Just think for a moment on what is being offered.

                     a. Untrained and unregistered "teachers"

                     b. No requirement to follow a recognised national curriculum.

                     c. Training rather than education. The vision of those North Shore school students in black on TV last night, eagerly watched by DS, was reminiscent of the schooling of children in 1930's Germany

                     Another way in which the Nazis aimed to indoctrinate the younger population was through reforming the education system.

                     They aimed to de-intellectualise education: they did not want education to provoke people to ask questions or think for themselves. They believed this approach would instill obedience and belief in the Nazi worldview, creating the ideal future generation.

                     The Nazis first focused on changing what students learned. They changed the core curriculum to emphasise sports, history and racial science as the most important subjects. In 1936, sport was taught for a minimum of two to three hours every school day. By 1938, this had been increased to five hours every day. Subjects such as religion became less important, and were eventually removed from the curriculum altogether.

                     The Nazis also adapted where the students learned from. They introduced new textbooks which were often racist, and promoted ideas such the need for Lebensraum . Any textbooks used to educate students had to be approved by the party.

                     The Nazis also placed great emphasis on who the teachers were. Under the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service Act of 7 April 1933, just three months after Hitler became chancellor, all Jewish teachers, and teachers with undesirable political beliefs (such as communists), were dismissed.

                     Further, is there any guarantee that a young person completing such "education" can move on to further study, where their NCEA results would be questionable, if they are granted by an unqualified teacher school assessment?
           • Incognito 3.3.1.1.1.2

             15 August 2024 at 1:21 pm

             You’re a real hero in your own mind fighting those self-erected straw men.

             A troll is what a troll does. We have enjoyed LW trolls on here but given that TS is a Left-leaning blog, RWNJs get much better bang for their buck and ROI from their masturbation of their ego thinking that it is the apex & climax of their neoliberal wet dream of self-actualisation.
       • Tony P 3.3.1.2

         15 August 2024 at 11:53 am

         Yes it's called a Winter Energy Payment and goes nowhere near paying for the firewood and power used to heat our house-so still not looking up. And as for the Chemist Warehouse-the closest one for people living inNapier is in Hastings and not on a bus route so those without their own transport or a friend/relative to take them can't access that. Life for a lot of people is not the rosy thing you think it is.
   • Tiger Mountain 3.4

     15 August 2024 at 11:34 am

     For those committed to performing (figuratively) anilingus on their hero Natzo MPs, there could indeed be a certain amount of “looking up” involved.

     Tax cuts for the already better off actually diminish the social wage in terms of what can be spent on public infrastructure and services for the majority of taxpayers.

     As for cash rate, the Reserve Bank Act and pandering to Australian Banks rolls over each election regardless of which MMP grouping is in office.
   • SPC 3.5

     15 August 2024 at 5:36 pm

     Are you aware that a one off tax cut is less than the impact of a wage increase?

     For example the difference between a 25 cent an hour increase in MW and $1 an hour is $30 a week.

     These wage increases occur 3 times in an election cycle.

     Then there is the C of C not going ahead with the Fair Pay Agreement – industry wage increases.
     • Jimmy 3.5.1

       16 August 2024 at 10:18 am

       Problem to me is the tax brackets had not been adjusted for 14 years. They were set when $70k was a "Rich Pricks" income.

       We had got to the ridiculous stage with minimum wage increases pushing a person who was on the minimum wage in to the 30% tax bracket. IMO they have still not raised the brackets enough.
4. Will 4

   15 August 2024 at 9:27 am

   Alan Duff says it out loud. Real Life: Once Were Warriors author Alan Duff claims welfare is robbing Māori of ‘self-dignity’ – NZ Herald

   [quote deleted]

   [if you want to make an argument against NZ’s social security system, then please do so in your own words, and use short quotes with links as references/back ups to what you are trying to assert. But bear in mind that this is a website and commentariat aligned with the labour movement, and simplistic reckons will probably be treated as trolling – weka]
   • weka 4.1

     15 August 2024 at 12:12 pm

     mod note
     • Will 4.1.1

       15 August 2024 at 4:44 pm

       There are many posts accepted by this site that provide insights into the thoughts of qualified commentators without further commentary.

       These are Alan Duff's thoughts. His own background (particularly his troubled childhood) and his ability to walk the talk (with his Books in Homes New Zealand recently celebrating 30 years) make his views far from 'simplistic reckons'.

       His central claims are that "social welfare is “robbing” tangata whenua of self-dignity and enabling a victim mentality that perpetuates the cycle of poverty.", and that Māori are trapped in a cycle of dependency and a victim mentality. His solution (as it has been for decades) is education, which he calls the 'enemy of poverty'.

       In my view he hits the nail on the head, and not just for Māori. Inter-generational welfare dependency is a trap that assigns good people to poor outcomes.

       [I know what Duff’s ideas are, and I didn’t call them simplistic reckons, I was calling your commenting style that. Here again you simply make some assertions of your views, but don’t really bring anything new to the table. This is a labour aligned political blog, we’ve heard it all before.

       “There are many posts accepted by this site that provide insights into the thoughts of qualified commentators without further commentary”

       yes, and almost none of them have spent weeks in premod because multiple authors consider them to be trolling. First rule of commenting is don’t suck up moderation time. I think I’ve cut you enough slack. I’ve asked you to change how you are commenting and today I’ve given some pointers. If you don’t want to take cues from a moderator, then take some time off. In case you hadn’t noticed, TS is going through some major changes. Come back in a month, the site should have transitioned by then – weka]
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         15 August 2024 at 5:03 pm

         mod note.
   • SPC 4.2

     15 August 2024 at 5:28 pm

     Why does Alan Duff think that welfare is a Maori issue?

     Is he opposed to welfare?

     Is he ashamed that there are Maori with disability, women with children and no job nor working partner, or are in poor health so they cannot work or are now too old to get work they need to pay the rent (as they do not own property)?

     Is it not important to him that this also applies to others, or is this really about his own shame that others of his middle class status know there are Maori not like himself?
5. PsyclingLeft.Always 5

   15 August 2024 at 9:37 am

   NZ's Disabled next on NACT1's hit list.

   Watch live: Disability services to shift from Whaikaha to MSD after budget

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/525212/watch-live-disability-services-to-shift-from-whaikaha-to-msd-after-budget

   Shifting to the UnCaring creeps at MSD ? Fucks sake….if i was Disabled and/or had Disabled family/Friends, I would be very concerned, if not outright worried.

   I hope all the Support groups stay solid for them ! I stand solid with you as well !
6. Patricia Bremner 6

   15 August 2024 at 10:05 am

   Rolling on Gravel and Kay, and all in your plight today. "Support Will be provided by MSD" Tui Tui. You predicted this. We will protest at this change, and the way it was done. Heartless doesn't even come close. Dollars before people is their go to.
   • Kay 6.1

     15 August 2024 at 10:32 am

     Thank you Patricia, it means a lot to know that people outside of our community give a damn.

     I will never, ever comprehend how right wing politicians think all of this is perfectly OK. It's more than just ideology, it's sadism with a healthy dose of sociopathy. Even moreso with their women MPs.

     And by extension, the people who vote for them. There's some RW leaning people on this site. I would love to know why you find all this acceptable.
   • Rolling-on-Gravel 6.2

     15 August 2024 at 2:23 pm

     Thanks for the support, Patricia!

     As always, I'll plug away within advocacy and activist disability groups with my comrades-in-arms in order to push back at this appalling government's reactionary moves.

     This shifting of Whaikaha to MSD is like shoving an already wounded animal back into a predator's fangs.

     And Louise is letting this happen or worse yet egging on all of this.

     This has to goddamn stop, indeed.
7. joe90 7

   15 August 2024 at 12:04 pm

   Cue the endless whining about being cancelled.

   /

   Polarizing psychologist Jordan Peterson now says he will attend the social media training he was ordered to undergo by his professional body after Canada's top court refused to hear his appeal, according to his lawyer.

   In 2022, the governing body for Ontario's psychologists told Peterson — who has gained international fame with his views on women, masculinity and gender identity — to undergo a social media training program or risk losing his licence to practise.

   The College of Psychologists of Ontario said some of his social media posts may be "degrading," raise questions about his abilities as a psychologist and risk bringing the profession into disrepute.

   https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-jordan-peterson-1.7288497
8. joe90 8

   15 August 2024 at 12:18 pm

   Imane Khelif could be on her way to being set up for life.

   https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-elon-musk-imane-khelif-lawsuit-1236105185/
   • tWig 8.1

     15 August 2024 at 3:05 pm

     That is a criminal suit, not a civil suit. Under French law, it is up to the French hate crime prosecutors to investigate the validity of taking on individuals or providers; and who, specifically will be prosecuted. However, there are big fines for individuals, and the possibility of imprisonment of up to 4 years.

     AP News Press release
   • Cricklewood 8.2

     15 August 2024 at 4:25 pm

     If anything it will do the opposite, i've no doubt the testing from the boxing outfit will be leaked and the question of her biological sex status will be dragged backwards and forwards through the courts and publicly on X or tiktok ad nauseum.

     Better to return home a hero and get on with life imho.
9. Reality 9

   15 August 2024 at 12:38 pm

   Jimmy, Nicola Willis and yourself need to stop peddling the belief we can all get prescriptions filled at Chemist Warehouse. Lower Hutt does not have a Chemist Warehouse. I assume that is the case in a number of other towns as well. Would it make sense to drive or train or bus to Lambton Quay or Kilbirnie? Petrol and fares cost money.
   • Kay 9.1

     15 August 2024 at 2:27 pm

     Ah but you see, if we don't make an effort to go to a Chemist warehouse- no matter the location- therefore it's personal responsibility and we only have ourselves to blame for forking out prescription charges. /s

     The only perk to this benefit thing is keeping free scripts (for now) so I'm not currently affected by this policy. But for the record, a warehouse chemist set up shop literally next door to my community pharmacy some years ago. The free scripts never tempted me on principle. One of the pharmacies in the area closed because of it, and this current one was losing so many customers, who returned with free scripts. It was several years before I even set foot in the place, and only then as the sold a product I couldn't get anywhere else.
   • Bearded Git 9.2

     15 August 2024 at 2:28 pm

     Luxon thinks only in Auckland terms…and it has lots of the Ozzie owned Chemist Warehouses.
   • Cricklewood 9.3

     15 August 2024 at 2:39 pm

     Woolworths in Petone has a fees free pharmacy if thats close by.
10. joe90 10

    15 August 2024 at 1:02 pm

    Peace is the last thing Netanyahu wants.

    .

    @joshuajfriedman.com‬

    Bibi recently added five new demands to Israel’s negotiating position over Gaza, creating obstacles to a ceasefire deal while blaming Hamas for deadlock (gift link)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-cease-fire-talks.html

    https://bsky.app/profile/joshuajfriedman.com/post/3kzlus54rj42k
    • Psycho Milt 10.1

      15 August 2024 at 2:22 pm

      It's the last thing the leadership of either side wants, which is quite a problem. Netanyahu's a turkey that isn't going to vote for Christmas, and Hamas' whole strategy relies on propaganda featuring Palestinians killed by the IDF. Good luck to anyone trying to sort that out.
      • tWig 10.1.1

        15 August 2024 at 2:53 pm

        The Long Read at The Guardian has Omer Bartov, an Israeli living outside Israel who served in the Yom Kippur war. His article provides an important insight on the emotional temperature of those in Israel.

        "This summer, one of my lectures [in Israel] was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree."

        Bartov is a historian who has researched how the Ukranian village where his grandmother lived could turn on its Jewish neighbours when Nazis overran their village; and how Germans going into battle had been conditioned for years by the Nazi State to believe their cause was right, by scapegoating Slavs and Jews as sub-human.

        It shows how deeply Israeli society, as well as the Israeli State, have descended into the mindset of a Final Solution for Gaza [my words, not his].

        Well worth a read.
        • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.1

          15 August 2024 at 5:31 pm

          The emotional temperature in Israel's changed significantly since 7 October last year, for sure. But the Jews still have a long way to go before they're anywhere near the Arabs' enthusiasm for a Final Solution.
          • Drowsy M. Kram 10.1.1.1.1

            15 August 2024 at 6:07 pm

            "The Arabs" still have a long way to go to before they're anywhere near the IDF's killing and maiming of tens of thousands of civilians in the current conflict.

            Perhaps the Israeli establishment (now) regards all Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip, children included, as potential terrorists. That might explain the continuing carnage and 'collateral damage', 10 months on from Hamas’ attack.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Scale_of_destruction

            And I've learned a new word.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicide
            • Psycho Milt 10.1.1.1.1.1

              15 August 2024 at 6:52 pm

              "In the current conflict," maybe. In the Syrian Civil War they clocked up around 600,000 dead.

              All this stuff about the supposedly murderous attitude of Israelis towards people in Gaza is only possible from people who have no idea of how Muslims feel about "enemies of Islam," of which they consider Israeli Jews the foremost examples.
              • Drowsy M. Kram …

                15 August 2024 at 8:58 pm

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

                All this stuff about the supposedly murderous attitude of Israelis towards people in Gaza is only possible from people who have no idea of how Muslims feel about "enemies of Islam,"…

                The way the current conflict continues to play out has me wondering whether “all this stuff” about any supposedly murderous intent of the Israeli establishment towards people in Gaza, and how some Muslims feel about "enemies of Islam", might not be mutually exclusive.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbicide#Palestine

                The request published Monday alleges that Israel's ongoing military operation is “part of a systematic effort to wipe Palestinian society and its culture and social institutions from the map.”
                https://ca.news.yahoo.com/state-palestine-applies-join-south-173328201.html

                Time will tell.
                • Psycho Milt …

                  16 August 2024 at 7:13 am

                  The idea that Israel has an aim of trying to wipe out the Palestinians is ridiculous for multiple reasons:

                  1. Hamas built no civilian shelters or any other infrastructure, so civilians are completely unprotected against attacks.

                  2. Given 1 above, Israel has the military capacity to kill most of the 2 million-plus Gazan Arabs in a matter of weeks.

                  3. That hasn't happened. The civilian death toll is incredibly low given 1 and 2 above.

                  4. The destruction would cease if Hamas surrendered. A sane govt would have surrendered back in December with most of Gaza undamaged. Gaza doesn't have a sane govt, hence the destruction continues.

                  5. The "urbicide" is a direct consequence of Hamas using the civilian buildings of Gaza as military facilities. Look there for responsibility for the number of destroyed buildings.
                  • PsyclingLeft.Always …

                    16 August 2024 at 8:12 am

                    Israel's occupation, which is now considered to be the longest military occupation in modern history, has seen it constructing illegal settlements there, creating a system of institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians under its occupation called Israeli apartheid.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

                    The zionists are very keen for lebensraum. At the expense of Palestinians. To them Palestinian Land and Lives are just…collateral damage.
                    • Psycho Milt …

                      16 August 2024 at 12:40 pm

                      Claims like this always only make sense if the Arabs are ignored, therefore the Arabs are always ignored.

                      Since 1948, Israel has only expanded beyond the territory allocated to it by the UN partition due to Arabs starting wars with it and losing. It's been willing to give captured land back again in exchange for a peace agreement, eg Sinai Peninsula given back to Egypt, Golan heights not given back to Syria.

                      The "longest military occupation" is in the same category: the land can be given back in exchange for a meaningful peace agreement. The local Arabs can't/won't agree to peace, therefore the occupation continues and the Arabs living there are exposed to those Israelis who believe the whole land should be theirs.

                      The Israelis got a great reminder 10 months ago of what would happen if they withdrew from occupied territories without a meaningful peace agreement, so don't go expecting any improvement even if Netanyahu does get what's coming to him and there's a change of govt.
                  • Drowsy M. Kram …

                    16 August 2024 at 12:07 pm

                    The idea that Israel has an aim of trying to wipe out the Palestinians is ridiculous for multiple reasons:

                    1. Hamas built no civilian shelters or any other infrastructure, so civilians are completely unprotected against attacks.

                    Not following your logic – surely Hamas-built civilian shelters would have been reduced to rubble by now ("Hamas using the civilian buildings of Gaza as military facilities", etc. etc.), like many mosques, schools, hospitals and cemeteries – this is (asymmetric) war!

                    More than 40,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, the territory’s Health Ministry says [15 Aug 2024]
                    Israeli forces have regularly targeted mosques, schools, hospitals and cemeteries where it claims fighters or tunnels are located, often causing civilian casualties.

                    2. Given 1 above, Israel has the military capacity to kill most of the 2 million-plus Gazan Arabs in a matter of weeks.

                    Yes, that's been the case for some time. Imho, the IDF killing "2 million-plus Gazan Arabs in a matter of weeks" would not be a 'good look' – neither is making the Gaza Strip uninhabitable, but it has a less barbaric feel than outright killing.

                    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-gaza-who-will-pay-to-rebuild/
                    • Psycho Milt …

                      16 August 2024 at 12:49 pm

                      The logic: Gaza's govt has completely exposed its people to harm by building extensive shelters for its own forces but none for civilian use. If Israel wanted those civilians dead, or if it even just didn't particularly care what happens to them, many more would be dead than the relatively small number that have been killed.
                  • PsyclingLeft.Always …

                    16 August 2024 at 1:39 pm

                    There is no "reply" function to your

                    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15-08-2024/#comment-2008395

                    So I will reply here. You state..

                    The local Arabs can't/won't agree to peace

                    Why would, or should they? Zionist settlers are attacking them, including with dogs !

                    Zak Witus observed as…

                    In 2022, I volunteered for three months as a human rights observer in Masafer Yatta, a rural area of the West Bank where Palestinian residents rely largely on shepherding and agriculture to earn a living. I confronted two of the settlers in question, Yinon Levi and Ely Federman, on a near weekly basis, and watched as they attacked Palestinians – unprovoked – with my own eyes.

                    Fellow activists have also filmed Federman setting his German shepherd on a Palestinian resident of the area, biting his arm and abdomen, while other settlers pointed guns at Palestinian onlookers. (Federman’s dog has been documented repeatedly attacking other Palestinian residents.)

                    2023 was the worst year on record for settler violence. Settlers attacked Palestinians and their property in more than 1,200 separate incidents. They killed at least 10 Palestinian people. They torched dozens of houses. And this was all before the Hamas attacks of 7 October.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/04/israel-settler-violence-sanctions

                    These are just some of the zionist settler who would violently clear Palestinians from their land. I have seen it described as ethnic cleansing. I concur.
                    • Psycho Milt …

                      16 August 2024 at 5:36 pm

                      If you lose a war, or multiple wars in this case, peace tends to be on the victor's terms. If you consistently refuse any terms and instead hold out for an eventual victory in the war you started over 70 years ago but no longer have any means of fighting beyond random acts of terrorism, things aren't going to go well for you and people also aren't going to feel particularly sympathetic towards you. That's just a given, it's nothing to do with Arabs or Jews.
                  • Drowsy M. Kram …

                    16 August 2024 at 2:42 pm

                    If Israel wanted those civilians dead, or if it even just didn't particularly care what happens to them, many more would be dead than the relatively small number that have been killed.

                    That’s cold comfort for surviving Palestinian refugees in the Occupied Territories. Will this conflict teach them to be grateful for small mercies?

                    Gaza rubble likely to conceal untold horrors to swell 40,000 death toll [15 August 2024]
                    • Psycho Milt …

                      16 August 2024 at 5:20 pm

                      Well, yes, if you let fascists come to power, things can turn out badly for you. It's a shame, but there's no point in blaming others for it.
                  • Drowsy M. Kram …

                    16 August 2024 at 6:41 pm

                    Well, yes, if you let fascists come to power, things can turn out badly for you.

                    Seems a tad callous, especially towards the dead infants? Never mind.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_fascism#Allegations_of_fascism_and_comparisons_to_past_fascist_regimes
      • Obtrectator 10.1.2

        15 August 2024 at 11:26 pm

        It's the same in any conflict of this type. The extremists at either end of the spectrum need each other to justify their own murderous existences. Usually it's the would-be peacemakers or bridge-builders who get taken out, sometimes by their "own" side (remember Gandhi? – too soft on the Muslims, decided one of his fellow-Hindus),
        • Psycho Milt 10.1.2.1

          16 August 2024 at 7:14 am

          Very much so. See also: Anwar Sadat, Yitzhak Rabin.
    • tWig 10.2

      15 August 2024 at 4:14 pm

      Truly disgusting behaviour by the IDF. Reported in The Guardian widespread use of civilian Palestinian men to trip booby-traps. They are being picked up, dressed in IDF uniforms with their hands tied and being forced to walk through buildings and tunnels that might be booby-trapped. If they survive, they are set free, small mercy.

      'One soldier had been told Palestinian civilians were being used to replace the dog units that search for explosives “because too many dogs had died”, he added.'
11. joe90 11

    15 August 2024 at 1:51 pm

    fifty years after the Te Reo Māori Society and Ngā Tamatoa petitioned Parliament.

    @waub.bsky.social‬

    I saw the Anishinaabemowin version of Star Wars in Sudbury tonight and was totally blown away. It was absolutely tremendous to see and hear our language dubbed into one of the biggest movies ever. Congrats to everyone who made this happen! http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...

    https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2g3z7dxgugnfu5tja6a4coxk/post/3kznhktixzv22

    The world premiere of an Ojibway-language version of Star Wars: A New Hope was screened in Winnipeg on Thursday evening, bringing rave reviews and also a galaxy of optimism for First Nations languages.

    "The biggest joy out of the whole thing is for my community to see the movie and hear our language in such an epic scale," Dennis Chartrand, a member of Minegoziibe Anishinabe in Manitoba, also known as Pine Creek First Nation, said ahead of the showing at the Centennial Concert Hall.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/star-wars-ojibwe-anishinaabemowin-indigenous-language-dub-1.7290025
12. Adrian 12

    15 August 2024 at 2:29 pm

    A couple of points, 1, Blenheim has a Chemist Warehouse, the next one south is in Christchurch 300kms away, to the west there’s one in Nelson140kms away. Not really local.

    In todays Guardian under Woe is Us, Australian numeracy and literacy results are creating the same panic as here but researchers and academics who know what they are talking about but don’t get listened to because “ We have another opinion” from….fill in the country fit for Hoskins clone here. Apparently it’s all bullshit, the criteria are set far too high to accommodate the huge span between the top 1% and the bottom 1%., well that’s my assumption Dude.
    What is appalling is the IT illiteracy of silly old buggers in their 70s who can’t link to stuff because..I’m a grumpy old shit, but it’s in the Guardian today.

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