Open mike 15/09/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, September 15th, 2014 - 179 comments
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179 comments on “Open mike 15/09/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    15 September 2014 at 6:48 am

    The Scots facing the same issue of a biased media supporting the establishment

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11324708

    • Gosman 1.1
      15 September 2014 at 7:39 am

      Given the BBC is the sort of media model constantly pushed by lefties here as a solution to supposed media bias this is kind of an own goal.

      • Local Kiwi 1.1.1
        15 September 2014 at 8:12 am

        Gosman You are known to be just an ultra wing paid bloger where we are not, and some are not purely left wingers either.

        We will ignore your constant dribble as spam now so why do you keep wasting space?

        • Gosman 1.1.1.1
          15 September 2014 at 8:37 am

          Eh??? Who is supposedly paying me exactly?

          Interestingly it looks like you’ve been snapped by the moderators for posting material that maybe is fulfilling an external agenda.

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1
            15 September 2014 at 12:14 pm

            If you’re doing it for free, I suggest you put a few dozen comments in a portfolio and send it to Carrick Graham. Might be worth a few thou a month, the work you put in…

            • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1.1
              15 September 2014 at 2:03 pm

              Given he supports a party who has 17% ofi ts MPs convicted of deceit or fraud related crimes…

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2
      15 September 2014 at 8:02 am

      What many people don’t know is that you can vote at age 16 in Scotland. These young people aren’t going to be swayed by the establishment telling them what is good for them/what they should do and will vote for the cause (independence).

      • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1
        15 September 2014 at 9:25 am

        Not so. Teenagers, generally, are often conservative in attitude and less engaged in the political process. And a significant number in Scotland see themselves as British first, Scottish second.

        http://www.scotcen.org.uk/media/205540/131129_will-16-and-17-years-olds-make-a-difference.pdf

        • Not a PS Staffer 1.2.1.1
          15 September 2014 at 11:37 am

          The 16-24 age group are currently 47 YES and 53 NO at present. The u-18s started out Cautious/NO: many moved to don’t know and then to YES. This pattern has applied across the board. As Don’t Knows go to YES rather than NO at a rate of 5:1 I expect the Youth will make a difference.
          http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/12/full-results-times-sun-140911-scottish-referendum/

          The level of engagement is massive by any standard. Over 95% of eligible voters are enrolled. A vote by over 80% is expected. http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/voter-registration-is-highest-ever.25298968

          The Labour Party is finished in Scotland. After the YES vote (results out mid-day Friday onward NZ Time) and Independence in March 2014 Labour will lose its 42 Scottish MPs.
          http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/14/scottish-independence-labour-decline-electoral-force
          Its Scottish Leader, Johann Lamont MSP, has been a shocker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBH55ZeZU4w

          The Tory Party was in a slow decline since the 1960s but went into a nose-dive under Thatcher. Unfortunately Westminster Labour lost touch with its roots and the Scottish outcome will cause the English Labour Party to either find its soul or become totally irrelevant.

          • Te Reo Putake 1.2.1.1.1
            15 September 2014 at 12:25 pm

            “The Labour Party is finished in Scotland. After the YES vote (results out mid-day Friday onward NZ Time) and Independence in March 2014 Labour will lose its 42 Scottish MPs.”

            Yeah, nah. Labour and the SNP are both polling in the 30’s in Scotland. If anything, Labour’s support for the union will solidify their Scottish vote at the next general election.

            • Not a PS Staffer 1.2.1.1.1.1
              15 September 2014 at 12:42 pm

              Alister Darling, Gordon Brown, Danny Alexandwer and many other senior Labour people have been seen to be the Tories poodles in the IndyRef. They have been part of “Project Fear”: they have used the Tory tactic of telling voters that prices and unemployment will go up and that all types of pestilence will rain down on them if they vote the other side. 50% of people who voted Labour in the last Holyrood election are now voting against the Labour led NO Campaign.
              Here is the list of Labour Westminster MPs who will be unemeployed after Independence.
              Danny Alexander, Douglas Alexander
              Willie Bain , Gordon Banks, Anne Begg, Gordon Brown
              Russell Brown, Malcolm Bruce, Iain McKenzie, Menzies Campbell
              Alistair Carmichael, Katy Clark, Tom Clarke, Michael Connarty
              Michael Crockart, Margaret Curran, Alistair Darling, Ian Davidson
              Thomas Docherty, Brian Donohoe, Frank Doran, Gemma Doyle
              Sheila Gilmore , Tom Greatrex, David Hamilton, Tom Harris
              Jimmy Hood, Stewart Hosie, Cathy Jamieson, Eric Joyce
              Charles Kennedy, Mark Lazarowicz, Angus MacNeil, Michael McCann, Gregg McClymont, Jim McGovern, Anne McGuire, Ann McKechin
              Michael Moore, Graeme Morrice, David Mundell, Jim Murphy
              Ian Murray, Pamela Nash, Fiona O’Donnell, Sandra Osborne
              Alan Reid, Angus Robertson, John Robertson, Frank Roy
              Lindsay Roy, Anas Sarwar, James Sheridan, Robert Smith
              Jo Swinson, John Thurso, Michael Weir, Eilidh Whiteford
              Pete Wishart

              • Te Reo Putake …
                15 September 2014 at 12:57 pm

                Your comment makes no sense, staffer, either politically or numerically. The referendum position the Labour party supports is also supported by a majority of eligible Scottish voters. That’s not going to hurt Labour in Scotland one little bit, and that is reflected in recent polling, which puts Labour and the SNP both in the 30’s. That level of support will remain electorally valid, whether or not Scotland votes for independence. Sorry to have to inject some reality into the discussion, but there you have it.

                • Not a PS Staffer …
                  15 September 2014 at 1:18 pm

                  The UK Labour Party, along with the Tories, supports the Union.
                  Up to 50% of previously Labour voters are rejecting the Party on this matter. They are significantly less likey to vote for Scottish Labour again given the disgust many of them feel towards the scare tactics NO campaign.

                  Notwitstanding all that, Scotish politics will reshape over the next few years. When the Independence issue is put to rest with a YES vote on Thursday one of the maindrivers of the SNP has evaporated.
                  A purely Scottish Labour party will form: my contention is that will have no relationship with the current UK Labour Party and it be significantly smaller that the 30% it got at the last Holyrood elections.

                  • Te Reo Putake …
                    15 September 2014 at 1:46 pm

                    Making numbers up doesn’t help your argument. The most recent yougov poll had 77% of Scottish Labour voters in the No camp, a mere 19% voting Yes.

                    The Scottish Labour Party already exists, btw. It is part of the UK Labour Party and has no plans to leave, whatever the outcome.

    • joe90 1.3
      15 September 2014 at 11:41 am

      The Scots facing the same issue of a biased media supporting the establishment

      It’s not bias, it’s dishonesty.

      Will the BBC issue a swift public apology for lying to the Scottish people so blatantly? Remember: YOU pay for the BBC. Are men like Nick Robinson the people you really want to trust?
      I think the kind of “reporting” exposed in this video is exactly why pensioners are slow to join the “Yes” campaign; they’re the least likely demographic to be active on social media and therefore have no alternate source of information to dispel the blatant lies of media outlets like the BBC.
      This is an uphill struggle, no doubt. But stay the course, do what you can, share the relevant media, and vote YES!

      Both pieces of footage used in this video were filmed on the 11th of September 2014. Nick Robinson’s report was broadcast on the six o’clock news mere hours after the international conference shown in the second piece of footage.

  2. North 2
    15 September 2014 at 7:15 am

    Herald this morning – “……..the news that Australia has raised its terror alert to the second-highest level would have sent more shudders down more spines than any filing cabinet full of the documents that Dotcom and the American journalist Glenn Greenwald may have.”

    Good old John Armstrong aye……..framing it for John Key before he/we even know what’s in that filing cabinet ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11324701

    • Rodel 2.1
      15 September 2014 at 8:00 am

      Key this morning with Espiner sounding more and more like Farrar: “in the end”…”ultimately”…”initially” and “look..look” about 10 times and as Espiner obviously detected, no substantial information in between the cliches.

  3. Local Kiwi 3
    15 September 2014 at 7:38 am

    [r0b: Deleted in moderation. You have posted versions of that comment several times here on The Standard, as well as other forums. It is becoming spam – enough.]

  4. Raa 4
    15 September 2014 at 8:08 am

    I came home yesterday to find thick envelopes from national and local Conservative Party candidates printed on glossy paper with what seemed like acres of white space.

    One featured an emaciated character staring fixedly at camera backed by a grinning rouges gallery including a woman with partially peroxided hair and violet-red lipstick.

    Compounding these fashion crimes was a wishy-washy pale shade of blue headlining lack of conviction and a point by point comparison with New Zealand First on the other side. Is someone trying to get rid of Winston Peters ?

    • Gosman 4.1
      15 September 2014 at 9:19 am

      Wow! Political party targets rival political party in attempt to win votes. I would alert the media immediately if I was you [sar]

    • joe90 4.2
      15 September 2014 at 11:48 am

      I received a drugs are bad mmkay addressed glossy complete with hypodermic and a scattering of pills.

    • Rodel 4.3
      15 September 2014 at 7:04 pm

      Raa
      I got the conservative one. The photos are as you described. Reminded me of a joke photo some years ago with a bunch of monkey like morons (apologies to morons) with the caption “Our qualified and capable staff are here to serve you”

      Batsh*t Colin grinning like a toothy nutty bush baby, Rankin that family friendly woman who is a great consolidator of marital relationships, Garth wotsisname and the other forgettables ….Geez what a bunch of visual f*ckwits.

      To think they could remotely consider themselves as my (read your) leaders.

      Incidentally I don’t actually want or need a leader, especially ones like these.

  5. Local Kiwi 5
    15 September 2014 at 8:16 am

    Dirty politic strategies no doubt?

  6. Chooky 6
    15 September 2014 at 8:17 am

    This article by lawyer Denis Tegg is a very good good clear summary of questions with implications for John Key’s NACT government

    ….especially question number 9. …about whether New Zealand could now be sharing information with Mossad on New Zealanders? ( We have already seen Slater’s connections with Israel…what other NZ journalists and PR operators also have connections with Israel?)

    ….this question if proved to be true has VERY SERIOUS IMPLICATIONS for New Zealand’s sovereignty , independence and democracy…and Foreign Relations…United Nations status….participant in the World Court and world justice system …and Human Rights and the justice system for New Zealanders!

    ‘Which of John Key’s many statements on the GCSB will Glenn Greenwald challenge and refute?’

    By Denis Tegg / September 15, 2014 /

    “We already have Glenn Greenwald’s assertion on The Nation that John Key has misled New Zealanders as to whether the GCSB has engaged in mass surveillance of Kiwis. But Key has made many other statements about the GCSB’s powers and activities. So which of these other public statements made by Key will Glenn Greenwald challenge and refute ?….

    – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/15/guest-blog-denis-tegg-which-of-john-keys-many-statements-on-the-gcsb-will-glenn-greenwald-challenge-and-refute/#sthash.pgRm6CDk.dpuf

    • crocodill 6.1
      15 September 2014 at 8:47 am

      Don’t get me wrong, it’s an important issue. It’s just that personally, if those guys knew the full truth of my life, they wouldn’t spend thousands “surveilling” me. I’d just tell them up front what they don’t want to hear, what they can’t bear to hear. A single fifty cent 9x19mmm parabellum from the American division of Kmart could save them heaps of time and cash. Those guys have killed so many “by accident” and “in self defence” why on earth would they hesitate with me? Or you?

    • Clemgeopin 6.2
      15 September 2014 at 8:48 am

      Watch live: ‘The moment of truth’.
      Details below:
      https://www.thunderclap.it/en/projects/15900-the-moment-of-truth

  7. AsleepWhileWalking 7
    15 September 2014 at 8:32 am

    “His comments on this matter have changed considerably, almost every single day so I’m not actually entirely certain what it is that he is denying…” Glen Greenwald on the Prime Minister’s preemptive rebuttle.

  8. Grant Buist 8
    15 September 2014 at 8:44 am

    ‘At the End of the Day’

    This was my contribution to yesterday’s ‘Off Key’ concert in Wellington to support artistic freedom and protest the censorship of Darren Watson’s ‘Planet Key’ song and music video. I’m posting it here before real-life political shenanigans overtake anything satire can conceive.

    • Weepus beard 8.1
      15 September 2014 at 8:59 am

      Cheers Grant. Loved it!

      • phillip ure 8.1.1
        15 September 2014 at 9:02 am

        @ w.p..

        ..had a re-think on those vegan-sossies..?

        • Weepus beard 8.1.1.1
          15 September 2014 at 9:14 am

          Heh. What would you put in them? Beans, nuts (for a bit of texture), and herbs I suppose. A binding agent might be a problem as eggs are not allowed I take it?

          I might have a play around in the kitchen.

        • Rosie 8.1.1.2
          15 September 2014 at 9:56 am

          Oh, just while we’re in the lifestyle section of The Standard, I would like to add that I have switched tofu allegiances. Whilst living in Auckland it was always Tonzu tofu, as Tonzu is made there (and pay their staff living wage), here in Wellington it has always been Hing’s as that’s made here, but recently I ventured out and tried the Soyworks one. It is a winner, hands down!

          The G.E free soy is grown right here in NZ, in Nelson and the flavour (yes, flavour!) of the tofu is something else. My tofu biryani will never be the same! Looking forward to it in summer on the BBQ with grilled polenta, marinated mushrooms and my home made salsa!

          https://www.facebook.com/TheSoyWorksNZ

        • Chooky 8.1.1.3
          15 September 2014 at 10:17 am

          @ phillip ure …i gave you my special award winning recipe for Vegan Sausages some time ago

    • weka 8.2
      15 September 2014 at 10:31 am

      Nice one Grant!

    • riffer 8.3
      15 September 2014 at 12:13 pm

      Great work Grant. Hope you don’t mind that I’ve shared it on facebook (and potentially got you in the shame shit as Darren Watson and Jeremy Jones now…)

      • Grant Buist 8.3.1
        15 September 2014 at 12:24 pm

        I’m fairly sure it doesn’t breach the Electoral Act, but when they come and drag me away to Satire Prison I’ll shout “Curse you, Riffer!” just for laughs.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.1
          15 September 2014 at 2:51 pm

          Well, according to the retweets, it’s now gone international. I have NFI why Canadians are watching #nzpol though.

    • Chooky 8.4
      15 September 2014 at 2:54 pm

      +100 great song !…hope “The END OF THE DAY” comes SOON!

  9. Raa 9
    15 September 2014 at 9:16 am

    Is a Scottish oligarch any better than an English oligarch ?

    This question is posed at http://tarpley.net/ where it is pointed out that

    “The answer to this question at the heart of the upcoming referendum appears to be no. If we ask who ranks as the most hated public figure in Great Britain during the twentieth century, the answer might well turn out to be the very Scottish Field Marshal Douglas Haig, a scion of the famous whiskey distillery. As supreme commander of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) in France and Belgium, the Edinburgh-born Haig became infamous as one of the greatest butchers of World War I with his futile frontal attacks at places likes Ypres and Loos. Worst of all, Haig was responsible for the most catastrophic single day in all of British military history with his bungling, incompetent attack plan for the July 1916 offensive on the Somme river, which resulted in 20,000 dead and 40,000 wounded during the first 24 hours, and 625,000 total casualties over five months – all to gain a few miles of terrain.”

    Further ..
    “There is no reason to expect better leadership from the medievalist banker-demagogue Alex Salmond (..), Scottish Prime Minister and boss of the Scottish National Party, who cynically offers pseudo-independence as the universal panacea.”

  10. Tautoko Viper 10
    15 September 2014 at 9:33 am

    An excerpt from the latest piece from the impartial jonolist, Tracy Watkins:

    “As the final week of the campaign begins, the latest stuff.co.nz/Ipsos poll has Labour on barely 22 per cent. At Glen Innes yesterday Cunliffe posed a lonely figure as one of his MPs took to a megaphone to round up stragglers for a street corner meeting. Across town, Key was a political rock star – mobbed, patted, loved.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10498151/Hardly-time-for-Key-v-Cunliffe

    There will be many jonolists requiring PTSD therapy if this election doesn’t go the way that they have been actively supporting.

    • Raa 10.1
      15 September 2014 at 9:41 am

      Yeah, I saw that too .. are these dice loaded ? You might get better odds at a casino …

    • Chooky 10.2
      15 September 2014 at 10:01 am

      This analysis of poll possible results is of interest…not all is lost for Labour…and there is the question of the overhang :

      ‘Election 2014: Numbers and Faces’

      By Keith Rankin / September 15, 2014

      “Democratic politics is a game of numbers and faces. How can we translate the numbers into the 120 or more faces that will be in the next Parliament?…

      – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/09/15/election-2014-numbers-and-faces/#sthash.jgBLRnxk.dpuf

      ( quite a part from anything else …bugger the polls!…the msm polls are lying…Labour is going to do well on Election DAY …especially when the undecided and former non voters get out and VOTE!)

  11. Undecided 11
    15 September 2014 at 10:01 am

    I need some help here please, I want National gone as they’ve done a decent job the last couple of years but the sleaze and underhand tactics is simply too much so I’m thinking the best way to remove National is party vote Labour however this article from whaleoil (its a guest post) raises some issues with potential conflicts of interest

    Whaleoil guest post that looks like a usual denier trying to raise doubts and who appears to be unfamiliar with much about Climate Change – read at your own risk via donotlink

    While i’m loathe to take onboard anything from the site the post itself raises some questions so I’m wondering if anyone can say theres no potential for conflict of interest or should I be looking towards the Greens?

    [lprent: You look to me as being more like a “concern” troll. All of the usual types of comments. ]

    • weka 11.1
      15 September 2014 at 10:11 am

      I’m not willing to click through to WO and many others here will be the same. Even people who do click through are unlikely to give WO any credence. Can you outline what the issues are that you are concerned about?

      Party voting Labour or the GP, either is best support for a change in govt.

      Edit: here’s the article without having to go to WO’s site http://www.donotlink.com/bmja

      [lprent: “to be fair” (that awful phrase that really means “I am about to try to stick the knife in”, Disturbed tried to drop the entire contents of the post on this site. Classic denier astroturfer. But we’ll let him dribble on a bit for amusement. I see that they have already gotten warnings from several people. ]

      • Undecided 11.1.1
        15 September 2014 at 10:16 am

        Essentially its about Karen Prices work (shareholding and directorship) with NZs largest (according to the post) broker in the trade of carbon credits

        On first reading it doesn’t look good but then it may well be a storm in a teacup but it is worrying

        • weka 11.1.1.1
          15 September 2014 at 10:21 am

          What specifically are you worried about?

          Are you familiar with the GP and Labour policies from reading the policies themselves?

          • Undecided 11.1.1.1.1
            15 September 2014 at 10:40 am

            Its not the policies so much as the possibility of a massive conflict of interest ala Oravida which is one of the reasons I’m not voting National

            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.1.1.1.1
              15 September 2014 at 10:44 am

              Why don’t you change your name to Slater?

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  15 September 2014 at 10:50 am

                  You spread his lies like a sock-puppet, why pretend to be a person at all?

                  • Undecided …
                    15 September 2014 at 10:52 am

                    Have you read the post?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:07 am

                      Have you worked out why associating with criminal trash makes you look like criminal trash?

                      Why don’t you tell us what the Mongrel Mob think too?

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:15 am

                      And you’re proof you don’t need a long neck to be a goose

                    • Ad …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:39 am

                      Why not do your homework on who would stand to gain or lose by attacking her? Because they will be paying Whaleoil for that service. I think there’s a book written on this somewhere.

                      Ask around about who attacked Karen as David he smashed the Telecom monopoly.

                      Unlike people here, we don’t take money from multinationals to attack political and commercial opponents.

                      BTW, if you really want to slander her, you will end up facing the toughest defamation lawyers in town. Trust me you do not want to be on the losing side of that one. Think hard before you go there.

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.2
              15 September 2014 at 11:34 am

              “Its not the policies so much as the possibility of a massive conflict of interest ala Oravida which is one of the reasons I’m not voting National”

              You’re not making sense Undecided. What’s the conflict of interest? Bear in mind that probably no-one here is going to read the article, so if you don’t clarify what *you* want to know you will probably get treated as a trole by more than just OAB.

              • Undecided …
                15 September 2014 at 12:06 pm

                Its a very long article but essentially its suggesting there might be a conflict of interest between Karen Price being involved with carbon trading and her husband

                However if people won’t read it (and thats fine I understand why) then theres really not much more to be said

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  15 September 2014 at 12:29 pm

                  Which party is Karen standing for? And what’s it got to do with her husband, whoever he may be? Is the husband not capable of independent thought and action in your opinion?

                  • McFlock …
                    15 September 2014 at 12:35 pm

                    and, more precisely, until “undecided” can point out an instance where cunliffe travels halfway across the globe on the public purse with the apparent primary objective of violating the Cabinet Manual by publicly endorsing his spouse’s company, there’s no comparison whatsoever.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.1.2
          15 September 2014 at 10:21 am

          It’s your offering support to criminals that’s the issue. What sort of person are you that you spread Cameron Slater’s smears?

          Ratfuckers belong in prison, ratfucker.

      • weka 11.1.2
        15 September 2014 at 10:20 am

        Ok, that’s an extremely longwinded post about CC and polluter pays taxation that I can’t be bothered reading. It’s apparently written by a ‘long time reader’ of WO, for what that’s worth (which is less than bugger all).

        If on the off chance you are not just link-whoring, I suggest that you read the policies of the GP and Labour on their websites and then come back here and ask specific questions. If you have read the article you should be able to describe the conflicts of interest pretty easily.

        • Undecided 11.1.2.1
          15 September 2014 at 10:38 am

          I read most of it but I confess the dullness of the article didn’t help, I vote not so much on policies but on who I believe is working the best for NZ (which may not be the best way to vote) and articles like this does push me towards the Greens

          • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.2.1.1
            15 September 2014 at 10:46 am

            That’s right, reinforce the Slater narrative, that way your facile deceit will stand out like a dog’s balls.

            • Undecided 11.1.2.1.1.1
              15 September 2014 at 10:50 am

              Slaters narrative is to want people to vote Green?

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                15 September 2014 at 11:00 am

                No. that The Greens will prop up a corrupt barrel of weasel-word motherfuckers like you and Cameron and John Key.

                • Undecided …
                  15 September 2014 at 11:05 am

                  You are a strange individual.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    15 September 2014 at 11:10 am

                    Contempt for ratfuckers: get used to it.

                  • Rosie …
                    15 September 2014 at 11:18 am

                    Undecided, you would be wise to take Aunty Chooky’s advice.

                    A couple of things:

                    You need to ask yourself why you are being influenced by whale oil when everyone knows he is at the heart of the sleaze and underhand tactics you refer to.

                    You need to know that Karen Price will not be the leader of the next government. David Cunliffe will.

                    You also need to consider whether you are in an electorate such as Epsom or Ohariu where tactical voting is a pressing issue. If so you need to consider your electorate as well as party vote.

                    Good luck with voting the government out.

                    PS: Giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you are asking a genuine question and not being a you -know -what t***l.

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:36 am

                      You need to ask yourself why you are being influenced by whale oil when everyone knows he is at the heart of the sleaze and underhand tactics you refer to.

                      – Thats why I’m not voting National, i want a change of government

                      You need to know that Karen Price will not be the leader of the next government. David Cunliffe will.

                      – Thats the thing though, is there a potential conflict of interest going on here similar to Oravida? Another reason I’m not voting National.

                      You also need to consider whether you are in an electorate such as Epsom or Ohariu where tactical voting is a pressing issue. If so you need to consider your electorate as well as party vote.

                      – Where i live its cut and dried whos getting in

                      Giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you are asking a genuine question and not being a you -know -what t***l.

                      – National have done a good job the last couple of years dealing with the GFC and earthquakes and I’d be voting for them now but for the behind the scenes sleaze and lies and half truths but because National is doing it doesn’t mean Labour isn’t (they may or may not be)

                      So since i’m changing my vote on the sleazy things National has done it means that i’m not keen on voting Labour if it looks like they doing the same things that National have been doing so I’m leaning towards Green

                      Yet I also know that the best chance to change the government is party vote Labour

                      Like i say conflicted, maybe tonight will clarify things

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:43 am

                      You need to ask yourself whether your first and second answers conflict with one another, and what you reveal about yourself thereby.

                    • Rosie …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:32 pm

                      Undecided.

                      So, what it boils down to is you feel unsure about Karen Price’s influence on her husband should he become leader? (still going with the idea that you’re not t****ing).

                      The idea that “because National did then Labour does is it too” is a right wing meme promoted by the Government and supported by the right wing media. (see the reporting and opinion from stuff.co.nz and The Herald over the last month) It was one of the easiest and lamest ways that the Government could respond to the crisis that the publication of Dirty Politics created.

                      It is no more a sophisticated response than your average seven year old would give when found guilty of some form of unacceptable behaviour. (sorry seven year olds!)

                      If you’ve read Dirty Politics you’ll know that New Zealand has never in it’s history seen such a level of corruption, dishonesty and deceit at it’s centre of political power. This unparalleled series of events is relatively recent in our history. It is unique. It’s probably not what you expect as a National voter right?

                      Don’t buy into the meme that other leaders are capable of such a stunning lack of integrity. Such sociopathy is rare and it is our responsibility to keep those with such traits out of power.

                    • greywarbler …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:20 pm

                      @ Undecided 11.36
                      This is priceless.
                      National have done a good job the last couple of years dealing with the GFC and earthquakes and I’d be voting for them now but for the behind the scenes sleaze and lies and half truths but because National is doing it doesn’t mean Labour isn’t (they may or may not be)

                      You silly person, you have given thinking a try and learned to put words together in a sentence and sent an early draft to us. There is a lot of work to do yet before you deserve to get the kind help you are asking for. Do your homework before you come to The Standard. Don’t waste our time. Come back next year.

                    • Rosie …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:47 pm

                      This is a reply to Warbs, not sure where it will turn up, run out of reply buttons.

                      Yeah, I saw that support for all the amazing work National has done with the GFC and CHCH. I chose to completely ignore that as there’s no point arguing with that – it just diverts the course of conversation. I thought it might be useful to park that belief (and it is a belief, it’s not knowledge) to one side and focus what Undies is really trying to say and ask.

                      Could be completely wasting our time, Undies could easily be a t***l, has all the hallmarks BUT what if he/she isn’t?

                      Rather than attack them for their support for National prior to Dirty Politics is it not better to set an example of those on the Left by cooperating with those on the Right in an effort to help them out? For all we know this could be a genuine question from a sincere person. It’s not impossible for former National voters to be disgusted with their party’s behaviour and take their votes away from them is it? If anything, good on them for not denying it as so many stuff type commenters do.

                      Not everyone has the same level of political engagement as the folks of the Standard Community and if we can help out when RW folks have a genuine querie that’s a good thing. Education an’ all!

                    • weka …
                      15 September 2014 at 4:28 pm

                      Hmm, I think it’s pretty clear by now that we’re talking trole undies. Gross.

                      btw, if you want to keep in thread, just use the last available reply button (scroll up to find it).

                    • Rosie …
                      15 September 2014 at 4:49 pm

                      Hi weka. Yes, got that with the reply button, it’s what I’ve been doing. I never quite know if the comment is going to land where I expect it to 🙂

                      I’ve ruled out Undies as being genuine as he/she would have been back to follow up. Or maybe they had to get back to work, I don’t know. I won’t bother again.

                      I was prompted to respond as we’ve had quite a bit of feedback at PPO about strategic voting, and people asking advice about how to vote Dunne out. You would be amazed at how many people just don’t know the basics of MMP. So I’ve got into a pattern of responding to those sorts of queries.

                    • weka …
                      15 September 2014 at 6:52 pm

                      I agree, we really need a civics education programme in NZ.

                      I know what you mean about wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt. I started with Undies on that too wherease OAB went straight to trole patrol. But like you I am aware of the many readers and reckon it’s better to not either just call the commenter a trole and be done with it, or present useful information.

              • Macro …
                15 September 2014 at 11:09 am

                Now that’s a damn good idea! Party Vote Green!
                But the Green’s would have nothing to do with that sleaze bag, and won’t condescend to advertise there, (along with P&S, and many others) so I guess he has to suggest you Party Vote Green in his post..

                • Undecided …
                  15 September 2014 at 11:18 am

                  See I’m thinking Green because they seem to be more keen on doing right for NZ but Labour with more party vote will more likely get a change of government

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    15 September 2014 at 11:26 am

                    A zero-sum game. Do you think anyone is going to fall for the idea that the Left vote can be boosted by carefully choosing which of Labour/Greens you vote for?

                    Spread Cameron Slater’s effluent then ask a very stupid question like a complete innocent.

                    Your low ethics are showing.

                    • weka …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:31 am

                      I really don’t think that’s helpdul OAB.

                      edit, even if undecided is doing what you suggest, the many other people reading this may need clarification rather than having to wade through contempt and ridicule. Lots of people still don’t understand how MMP works.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:36 am

                      Weka, either Undecided is a tr*ll, or has trouble working out basic concepts of MMP and whether to take Slater’s word for anything.

                      I’m making the charitable assumption that they’re a player, are you suggesting I treat them as a cretin instead?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:55 am

                      Then I suggest they seek out the Electoral Commission’s website: this is a forum for partisan political opinion, with a minor infestation of right wing tr*lls whose expressed aim is to seek a low turnout.

                      Either that or work out the meaning of “zero-sum game”.

                    • weka …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:13 pm

                      “I’m making the charitable assumption that they’re a player, are you suggesting I treat them as a cretin instead?”

                      No, I’m suggesting you don’t fill OM with ratfucker insults, as witty as they are.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:19 pm

                      “An accomplice in a systematic attempt to pervert democracy and the rule of law” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

                    • weka …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:23 pm

                      It’s more an issue of volume than content style 🙂

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 1:25 pm

                      😆 ok ok less is more

                  • weka …
                    15 September 2014 at 11:30 am

                    “See I’m thinking Green because they seem to be more keen on doing right for NZ but Labour with more party vote will more likely get a change of government”

                    That’s not true. Labour will have to use the GP to form govt. Under MMP it doesn’t matter if Labour has one less MP and the GP one more, or vice versa. It’s the total that counts. So, vote for either, whichever one you prefer.

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:49 am

                      Well you learn something everyday, see I thought that the stronger the Green representation was in government the stronger the influence they could exert

                      For example if the Greens had 1/3 of the seats in government they’d have more influence then if they had 1/4

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 11:56 am

                      🙄

                      Right on cue, the mask slips.

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:01 pm

                      What are you on or on about?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:13 pm

                      Sheesh! Do I have to spell it out <i.again! I think you’re arguing in bad faith, what part of that don’t you comprehend?

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:18 pm

                      So spell it out because all I’m trying to confirm is whether to vote Labour or Greens and all you’re doing is talking in circles without saying anything of substance

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:28 pm

                      Simple: if you were sincere I’d tell you to vote for either of them: it’s a zero-sum game so far as I’m concerned.

                      What I’m predicting is that you will pretend that Slater’s smear (the one you’ve been promoting) is putting you off Labour, to later pretend that another smear has put you off the Greens too.

                      Of course that includes besmirching your character, and the alternative is to assume you don’t know what a zero-sum game is and you’re too stupid to understand Slater’s toxicity.

                      Choose one.

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:32 pm

                      I personally think that you see what you want to see, that your mind is closed and nothing will change that

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:36 pm

                      That’s not a denial.

                    • Undecided …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:41 pm

                      You’re an idiot, i know its not a deniel however i feel its a pretty good summation you and your character

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      15 September 2014 at 12:44 pm

                      Call me a little butt henchman, you know you want to.

          • Tracey 11.1.2.1.2
            15 September 2014 at 11:35 am

            if you dont read policies how do you form your belief about who is working the best for nz?

            • Undecided 11.1.2.1.2.1
              15 September 2014 at 11:45 am

              Blogs, media, TV, Newspapers as I find reading policies is a great way to cure insomnia which i know isn’t a good way of forming beliefs but genrally i find politics to be quite boring

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                15 September 2014 at 12:19 pm

                Here’s a prediction for you. Once Slater has pushed his conflict of interest lie, the ratfuckers will all pretend that they’re being drawn towards the Greens.

                Then Slater will make up another smear against the Greens, and all his little helpers will announce that they’re all as bad as one another but at least National will be a stable government.

                Trash will out.

                • Chooky …
                  15 September 2014 at 12:22 pm

                  yes another reason why one should never go near Slater’s whaleoil…it is a pollutant of the Truth…and way too tricky for the average punter…especially those that need ‘Politics for Dummies’…i sympathise with Undecided…he/she needs to de-tox and then make a decision to vote for Labour or the Greens imo…these are the most solid bets with the best past form of opposition to John Key’s Nactional

                • Undecided …
                  15 September 2014 at 12:28 pm

                  Quite possibly he will however the last few years there hasn’t been any sort of scandel to have affected the Greens, no real conflicts of interested, no real election law breakings or financial irregularities so probably won’t find much traction there

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    15 September 2014 at 12:37 pm

                    Spot the platform on which this low character will help construct Slater’s coming smear.

    • Chooky 11.2
      15 September 2014 at 10:15 am

      @ Undecided ….from Aunty Chooky ( you must NEVER go on whaleoil..it is bad for you!)

      …the Greens will do well!….they can look after themselves…however if you want to vote Green for the environment and everything else …go ahead!…GOOD CHOICE…because they are married to Labour and will influence Labour

      …otherwise VOTE LABOUR….because they need your VOTE to get rid of Nactional and dirty politics

      …as a wild card is Internet MANA….also well deserving of your VOTE…because it is at the vanguard of attacking dirty politics and corruption of New Zealand’s democracy and NZer’s human rights !…and it is for ALL New Zealand kids and free tertiary education

      Winnie and NZF will also look after themselves and will probably be a partner of Labour ….they are also for New Zealand for New Zealanders and their rights to their own land, housing , State Assets… and for NZ democracy…which is under attack at the moment

    • KJT 11.3
      15 September 2014 at 11:34 am

      It is a beat up. Every one of the national party caucus have much larger potential conflicts of interest. Even if you only look at their declared interests.

    • emergency mike 11.4
      15 September 2014 at 12:27 pm

      Wow long discussion about something very simple.

      ‘Undecided’ you smell an awful lot like a concern tr0ll. But just it case you’re for real, let me help you out:

      Whaleoil = 100% pure bullshit (Read even one chapter of Dirty Politics if you need evidence.)

      You’re welcome.

  12. Te Reo Putake 12
    15 September 2014 at 10:53 am

    Desperate Nats breaking electoral law?

    Tory hoardings around my way have had a large sticker added to them saying that ‘every party vote is important’. Nothing wrong with the wording, but, presumably in order to confuse or mislead the public, they have used the Electoral Commission’s own colour, orange, for the sticker. Apparently, a party vote for National is now authorised by the Commission.

    In reality, according to the Electoral Commission, orange is not allowed to be used by political parties because it can confuse or mislead. I’m guessing that the Nats misunderstood that injunction to be an endorsement of their usual behaviour.

    http://www.elections.org.nz/news-media/family-party-registered-logo-declined-act-party-abbreviation-registered

    In addition, the stickers don’t appear to have an authorisation statement on them, which I presume is a second breach of the law.

    Nasty Nats.

    • Peter Matthews 12.1
      15 September 2014 at 11:10 am

      Stick to your first point. Haven’t seen an authorisation statement on the stickers added to the Sue Moroney hoardings around me.

      • Te Reo Putake 12.1.1
        15 September 2014 at 11:17 am

        Touche! To be fair, I’m unsure whether things added to already authorised signage are covered by the original authorisation and if Labour are doing it, I’m sure it’s OK ;)*

        However, the orange colour, and its misuse, are clearly covered. This picture may also breach the law:

        https://www.national.org.nz/campaign

        *Labour also have similar stickers (presumably the ones you’ve seen on Sue’s hoardings). They carry an authorisation statement!

      • Tracey 12.1.2
        15 September 2014 at 11:36 am

        the labour stickers are white with black writing?

        • Te Reo Putake 12.1.2.1
          15 September 2014 at 11:55 am

          Yep, I think that’s the ones, Tracey (not one close to where I am for me to check, unfortunately). Wording like ‘only a party vote for Labour can change the government’? I’m told that they all have the authorisation notice because that is what is required by the Act. Funny that the Tory ones apparently don’t comply with the law.

          • Tigger 12.1.2.1.1
            15 September 2014 at 4:05 pm

            It’s an orange banner that read Your party vote is crucial. I’ve seen it on Epsom, Mt Roskill and Mt Albert National billboards.

            Took pics when I was stopped at traffic lights. Will complain.

          • Tracey 12.1.2.1.2
            15 September 2014 at 4:46 pm

            The one I saw in Mt Albert had the authorisation (Labour’s I mean).

            Kiwiblog will have been onto this story in a flash won’t they?

        • yeshe 12.1.2.2
          15 September 2014 at 4:40 pm

          yep to Labour b/w, just saw one on my way home. The Nat ones are bright orange.

  13. fambo 13
    15 September 2014 at 11:13 am

    Small news item I noticed in at http://www.democracynow.com

    Philadelphia Set to Decriminalize Marijuana

    Philadelphia is poised to become the largest U.S. city to decriminalize marijuana. Mayor Michael Nutter has pledged to sign a City Council bill imposing a $25 fine for possession of an ounce or less of pot. Those cited would reportedly have to appear before a judge, but would not have a criminal record. People caught smoking pot in public would face a $100 fine, which could be waived through community service. The measure could prevent thousands of arrests each year.

  14. seeker 14
    15 September 2014 at 11:13 am

    To add to this moment of truth day, here is a 3min videoclip showing our PM in untruthful action:

    PM John Key grilled on Fletcher’s GCSB appointment
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics-videos/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503464&gal_cid=1503464&gallery_id=131968

    Key says Rennie put forward Fletcher’s name @ 40 secs but changes his story @1.46 in, and Very Unusually was actually queried on it by a journalist @ 1.55 and repeats truth or lie @2.05mins. Only video I’ve seen and still able to access that shows him lying.

    • yeshe 14.1
      15 September 2014 at 4:48 pm

      that’s a treasure trove of multi-duplicitous Keys isn’t it !@! Have saved it in case it disappears .. thx for posting.

    • phillip ure 15.1
      15 September 2014 at 12:44 pm

      yep..!..internet/mana have the strongest cannabis policy..(pun intentional..)

      ..and laila harre has stated her ‘personal commitment’ to ending cannabis prohibition..

      ..it doesn’t get much better thn that for cannabis activists..

      ..i really hope those 12,000 people who voted for the aotearoa legalise cannabis party in 2011..can also see that..

      ..and will this time cast their vote for the best chance for cannabis-reform we have had since forever…

      ..the internet/mana party..

      ..and i hope they heed the words of one of their (deserved) heroes..the longtime cannabis-warrior dakta green..

      ..i am sure he won’t mind if i paste his reply to my open letter to the aotearoa legalise cannabis party..

      ..this issue is very important..those 12,000 voters are one and a half times the total number of people who went to the internet/mana roadshow up and down the country..

      ..that is a serious wedge of voters..

      ..and i really hope laila harre is reaching out to them..as we speak..

      ..(here is the good dakta..)

      “..daktagreen says:
      12/9/2014 at 12:40 am (Edit)

      Phillip Ure. I was part way thru writing a piece with similar sentiments when your letter appeared. My piece had neither the style nor wit of yours so please allow me to endorse your thoughtful and timely letter addressed to all cannabis law reform activists.

      I am well known for my activities around cannabis law reform. I have been fielding questions for some weeks asking why am I not voting ALCP. My answer has remained consistant. I want my vote to count.

      As a member of Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party I stood in the Mt Albert by-election following Helen Clark’s resignation. Not for one second did I think I could win in Mt Albert. But the campaign gave me a good reason to drive a big green bus around town with ‘Legalise Cannabis’ emblazoned down the side and park in front of a captive audience. If I was able to educate anybody about issues surrounding cannabis then that was a bonus.

      I was planning to stand for ALCP last election in the New Lynn electorate where I lived at The Daktory. Judge Gittos sentenced me to a term of imprisonment which would have had me released in time to campaign. Unfortunately, the Court of Appeal on a Crown application increased my sentence from eight months to twenty three months. My political activities last election were therefore limited to casting my vote in prison for the ALCP.

      I have made it clear to my friends and supporters that I cannot and will not waste my vote as a form of protest. We must all vote strategically. I have suggested people vote for any party other than the morally bankrupt administration of Key and his minions including his bum-boy parties Act and United Future. But today that is no longer enough. We must be more targeted.

      There is no room for a protest vote. This election is much more important.

      I love the Greens but cannabis law reform is my priority whilst saving the world is theirs. Greens will continue to grow in size and stature because they are right. But my party vote is valuable and I must use it carefully. My party vote becomes more valuable when it may be just the vote needed to get another MP from Internet/Mana into Parliament.

      I want Laila Harre to represent my interests in Parliament.

      Whilst the Greens would normally get my support, I believe the Internet/Mana ticket will be the sleeper this election. Some weeks ago I predicted Internet/Mana will poll between 6 and 8% on election day. I have seen little in the last few weeks to change my mind.

      Just 3% of the Party vote will see Laila Harre in Parliament.

      As a country we have endured a bruising six years under Team Key. The issue this election is leadership. National have played dirty one time to many.

      Hone Harawira has transformed from activist to statesman as the Mana movement has grown and matured. Mana have clearly defined goals I can support.

      I endorse Laila Harre and the Internet Party to represent me and the cannabis community in Parliament.

      Dakta Green, Internet/Mana Party voter..”

      (the conversation then continues..)

      http://whoar.co.nz/2014/comment-whoar-an-open-letter-to-the-aotearoa-legalise-cannabis-party/

  16. weka 16
    15 September 2014 at 11:27 am

    Just had a conversation with a left voting friend who doesn’t follow politics but she reckons that thing about so many people don’t use the MSM for their political information. Does anyone know what the figures are on how many people still get their news predominantly from the TV and radion networks or newpapers (irrespective of whether they are accessing them online or not)?

  17. Poission 17
    15 September 2014 at 11:37 am

    Oh dear oh dear.Transmission gully Wellington Gateway Partnership (WGP) ppp Australian partner is under investigation by Australian federal police.

    Federal police probing alleged bribery by Leighton Holdings are finalising a brief of evidence to present to prosecutors in what looms as Australia’s next major white-collar crime case.

    The revelations come with Fairfax Media obtaining a freshly leaked batch of company files, including correspondence between two top Leighton executives in 2011 describing a “disgusting history of incompetence and misbehaviour” and improper “rewards, special bonuses, travel rorts” in the company’s overseas operations.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/mining-and-resources/police-close-in-on-leighton-bribery-allegations-20140914-10gpgt.html#ixzz3DKuLyzmB

    • Chooky 17.1
      15 September 2014 at 12:19 pm

      …oh dear more of NACT’s business buddies turn out to be crooks!

      Labour /Left should axe NACTs big motorways and put the money into free Tertiary education for young New Zealanders

    • Draco T Bastard 17.2
      15 September 2014 at 3:29 pm

      And that is prima facie evidence that National now needs to be investigated for taking bribes.

  18. Hanswurst 18
    15 September 2014 at 11:50 am

    I was prepared to think that Slater’s recounting of Key’s unprintable comments regarding Jo Hall were almost total embellishment on Slater’s part. However, seeing his castigation of Glenn Greenwald as “Dotcom’s little henchman” and a “loser”, I can easily see Key making comments that were similar to what Slater reported, if not quite as foul-mouthed.

  19. bad politics 19
    15 September 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Sad news, NZ guitar legend Peter ‘Gutman’ Gutteridge has died. In the original line ups of both The Chills & The Clean, he went on create Snapper, recording a handful of amazing singles, eps & lps. He just had a solo album released this year (a re-release of a cassette he recorded in the 90s). A sad day for Dunedin.

  20. Penny Bright 20
    15 September 2014 at 1:03 pm

    Here you go folks – some BREAKING NEWS.- in an OIA reply just received today (15 September 2014) from the Reserve Bank.

    The Reserve Bank will NOT reveal:

    “The names of the banks, financial institutions and the like, which have facilitated, enabled and/or provided derivatives market services, in any form, since the John Key led National Government took office in 2008″
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Dear Ms Bright

    On 29 August 2014 you made a request to the Treasury, under the provisions of Section 12 of the Official Information Act, seeking information relating to legislation that affects the derivatives market; Government exposures to the derivatives market; names of participants in the derivatives markets; and the value of derivatives exposures.

    The Treasury transferred to the Reserve Bank the second part of your request. The transferred part of the request seeks: The names of the banks, financial institutions and the like, which have facilitated, enabled and/or provided derivatives market services, in any form, since the John Key led National Government took office in 2008.

    Given the context provided by the remainder of your request, I assumed that you’re particularly interested in organisations that operate in New Zealand and that are counterparties to derivative transactions involving New Zealand Government organisations. You confirmed to me in a telephone conversation on Monday 8 September 2014 that my assumption is correct.

    Response

    The Reserve Bank enters financial derivatives contracts with a range of counterparties. The names of counterparties are being withheld under the following provisions of the Official Information Act:

    · Section 9(2)(b)(ii) – to avoid unreasonable prejudice to the commercial position of the person who supplied the
    information or who is the subject of the information.

    · Section 9(2)(d) – to avoid prejudice to the substantial economic interests of New Zealand.

    · Section 9(2)(i) – to enable a department or organisation holding the information to carry out, without prejudice or
    disadvantage, commercial activities.

    · Section 9(2)(j) – to enable a department or organisation holding the information to carry on, without prejudice or
    disadvantage, negotiations (including commercial and industrial negotiations).

    This response meets in full part two of your request, as transferred to the Reserve Bank.

    Under the provisions of section 28 of the Official Information Act, you have the right to seek a review by the Ombudsman of the Reserve Bank’s decisions about your information request.

    Yours sincerely
    ………..
    External Communications Advisor | Reserve Bank of New Zealand
    …………………………………………….
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Really?

    Is this information ‘commercially sensitive’ or POLITICALLY sensitive?

    Given that NZ Prime Minister John Key, former Foreign Exchange Advisor for the New York Federal Reserve, and former head of derivatives for Merrill Lynch, is currently a shareholder in the Bank of America?

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20141/2e04287ad20ee5da12a308149e59bb16d7f47ce5

    (Pg 30)

    Rt Hon John Key (National, Helensville)

    2 Other companies and business entities

    Little Nell – property investment, Aspen, Colorado
    Bank of America – banking
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Serving WHOSE interests?

    Try following the dollar …..

    Penny Bright

    • Chooky 20.1
      15 September 2014 at 2:01 pm

      +100 Penny… good work!…but what does that mean in two sentences and plain English for dummies with short attention spans?

  21. Ennui 21
    15 September 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Looks like Winnie will be the balance of power……now what might that entail?

    I reckon he has it within his grasp to destroy National as “the” party of the Right, and install NZ First as the party holding the “conservative centre” (left and right). How? He only has to insist on a Royal Commission with independent cross party appointees to go into the issues ion Hagers book. And into any other accusations.

    The end result I believe is that the Governor General would be forced to call another election and “Brand Key” would have disappeared from the ballot sheet. Corporate NZ would be running tails between their legs.

    The question is “will Winston?” How deep is his animosity to National? I suspect that Winnie would still be National if it was not so aligned with the corporate sponsors who clearly nobbled the Winebox enquiry. Some fun times ahead methinks.

  22. greywarbler 22
    15 September 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Just had another look at Taco doing Puttin on the Ritz. His portayal of a good time johnny amongst the poor street people is pretty much like National and Act. Conservatives wouldn’t countenance any street people – they would be arrested and jailed for being layabouts or, just, alive.

    Wonderful tap and effects. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3PnQ3tgzY

    There was a gerfuffle about this clip because some performers have black-face. It is an important symbolic thing to protest about. Black people were discriminated against for too long. They were also leaders in show biz, and happy to be there during the Depression, anyone blacking up was copying them. Black people wouldn’t have got acknowledgment of discrimination in 1964 without their unrelenting and intolerable pressure on the authorities. But appearing to care about the convention of respect and being PC about black-face is important to the leading bigots, even if in their hearts still they think, no.

  23. AsleepWhileWalking 23
    15 September 2014 at 3:39 pm

    Good luck to Kim tonight.

  24. Tracey 24
    15 September 2014 at 3:45 pm

    “Mr Peters said he was the first MP to back Mr Parker in 2006 when he resigned as Attorney-General following an allegation he had filed an incorrect return to the Companies Office.

    Mr Peters said he stood by Mr Parker because he was a “man of honour” and was being “unfairly vilified”.

    He also said he admired Finance Minister Bill English’s integrity on the issues of dirty politics and the affordability of tax cuts.

    “Like Mr Parker, he has a certain integrity and honour. Consequently I see both of them as capable of being Ministers of Finance.””

    I guess Winston considers double dipping at the tax payer’s expense a sign of honour and integrity

    • greywarbler 24.1
      15 September 2014 at 4:08 pm

      Awww it was just an involuntary reflex. A short-term operational matter. A momentary slip of the pen. ‘And Labour did it sometime!’

  25. Rosie 25
    15 September 2014 at 3:47 pm

    Great to see stuff are keeping up their high levels of professional standards and making a joke out of an issue of immense national importance:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10500039/Kim-Dotcom-Seven-Moment-of-Truth-alternatives.

    Coz we haz a profeshunal jealousy?

    🙄

  26. greywarbler 26
    15 September 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Cartoon on the state of Western democracy from bold Australian cartoonist, Bruce Petty.
    http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/national/cartoons-for-monday-11-march-20130310-2fuex.html

  27. greywarbler 27
    15 September 2014 at 4:22 pm

    @ Rosie 1.47
    You are a good person, patient etc. Undies comment just got my antennae twitching. Just so naive with so many questions. Actually if wanting to vote, I think someone should be able to think things out for themselves.

    An irritation, personal to me. I wish that my piece on transport and rail would get as much attention. So much to think about and we run rings around some pseudo pseudonym. There is a case for having to pass a simple test before voting. I understand those wanting to live in the United States have to answer all sorts of deep questions, and from what I have read of their general knowledge, citizens would have failed.

    If this Undie is young let her/him look on google. I do. And then come and discuss what I have found out. Latest thing that I haven’t found out is what Scotland will use as cash money if they go solo? Anyone know that? I would probably find it in the archives here.

    • Rosie 27.1
      15 September 2014 at 6:57 pm

      Hi Warbs. Super quickly because the Moment of Truth live stream is about to start. Understand your points and for what it’s worth I have given up on Undies. I won’t bother again.

      Scotland to retain the the pound. That is my understanding of the form of currency in an Independent Scotland.

      Gotta go! Let her rip M.O.T! (not the former Ministry of Transport)

      • greywarbler 27.1.1
        16 September 2014 at 5:05 pm

        @ Rosie
        I made people laugh when I said that seeing and hearing Edward Snowden was the biggest celebrity event for me since the Beatles came here. Great to hear and overall may nothave delivered all that was hoped but was anothr step up to getting info out there.

  28. yeshe 28
    15 September 2014 at 4:30 pm

    Just fwiw .. just enjoyed lunch with a close friend from the oh-so-blue Pakuranga electorate. She told me, unsolicited, that she and her family, and all their closest friends have always voted Nat and Maurice Williamson. Never again. They are all angry and changing their votes.

    Not only are they distrustful of Williamson, they are now in the anyone-but-Key voters — this is at least 8 or 9 votes. Decent Kiwis just seeing the light now they have had their eyes forced open.

    Yes, just an anecdote but I know this one is 100% true.

    Happy trails ….

  29. Morrissey 29
    15 September 2014 at 6:08 pm

    Radio NZ continues to seek comment from the Sensible Sentencing Trust.
    Why doesn’t it seek comment from the NZ National Front as well?
    The Panel, Radio New Zealand National, Thursday 11 September 2014
    Jim Mora, Lavina Good, Tim Watkin, Zara Potts

    ZARA POTTS: Boeing has SLAMMED an upcoming Al Jazeera documentary about its new Dreamliner plane. A worker secretly filmed conversations with fifteen of his colleagues, during which ten of them said they would not fly on the plane themselves. He also exposed a high level of drinking and drug taking at the Boeing factory. But Boeing says that the workers were simply letting off steam.

    JIM MORA: Just irresponsible banter, essentially….

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v

    STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!!!

    ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Yes it is true. You were not dreaming when you heard that. Jim Mora actually said that. He actually had the chutzpah to pass comment about “irresponsible banter”. That is beyond parody. You just could not make that up.

    Now it is quite clear that, after close to a decade of delivering this crap chat show, Jim Mora has the hide of a rhinoceros. He is, patently, inured to irony. But even Jim Mora, that glib, determinedly trivial and insincere chatterbox, must have realized, even as he mouthed the words, just how hypocritical that comment was.

    Late in the program, we were given a stark example of just how grievously Mora and his producers lack not only basic common sense, but more importantly how they lack integrity, or even a rudimentary sense of decency. Mora, his voice carefully modulated to convey the impression of deep concern, brought up the topic of the parole hearing for Akshay Chand, the murderer of Christie Marceau.

    After a brief discussion with the two Panelists, neither of whom belongs to an organization that applauds or advocates murderous violence, Mora announced that they would be talking to someone who most certainly does: Stephen Franks, an “active member and adviser” for that bloodthirsty pack of knife-killing enthusiasts the Sensible Sentencing Trust. I know that many regular posters on this forum have remonstrated with Mora, and with the management of Radio NZ, about their practice of routinely seeking comment from the S.S. Trust, which is beyond doubt a monstrous and disreputable organization.

    It is quite obvious that Mora and his producers have not taken these protests seriously. That is the reason that listeners were treated to the absurd and obscene spectacle of Franks said something about the Christie Marceau case, then, in answer to another question, took the opportunity to embark on a wandery rant against what he sneeringly calls “well meaning” prison reforms which have, according to him at least, taken the “top dog” status in prisons away from the wardens. Of course, trifling concerns like prison officers no longer being licensed to torture, abuse or degrade prisoners obviously count for nothing to the kind of person who belongs to the S.S.Trust.

    I will not burden Standardisti by subjecting them to Stephen Franks’s sardonic and deeply hypocritical reproach of “well meaning” liberals, which was pretty much the same speech he always gives whenever he gets the chance. What is interesting, and deeply concerning, is that this vicious, utterly discredited vigilante gang is still being treated with unwarranted respect, is still routinely asked for comment by Radio NZ, and is still referred to as a “victims’ rights organization”.

  30. Hanswurst 30
    15 September 2014 at 7:46 pm

    Not being in NZ, I don’t pick up much about this sort of thing, but I just caught the National campaign ad in an ad-break on Campbell Live online. They appear to have changed the backing music. It’s no longer the D-minor Eminem doppelganger that sounds like it’s been pulled straight out of a documentary about illegal spying. It might be a clip from another part of the same piece, but it’s in a major key, is much more upbeat and no longer has those ultra-sinister overtones that make it sound like National are sending agents into your home at night to confiscate your red scarves, paint your pets blue and teach three-way handshakes to your children.

    Has anyone else noticed that change, or when it happened?

    • RedBaronCV 30.1
      15 September 2014 at 9:20 pm

      Right up there with the radio ad I heard promoing Nact the other evening. Smarmy voice goes ‘we look after NZ’s mosty vulnerable”. Code for Slater & Ede?

  31. McFlock 31
    15 September 2014 at 8:02 pm

    Caught seven sharp while channel flicking – hosking’s rant at the end was outrageous. The pm’s lovely, we should trust him, everyone else are horrid liars.

    I’m paraphrasing. What he said was even worse – I can’t find a link yet, but it really was desperate, blatant propaganda.

  32. weka 32
    15 September 2014 at 8:24 pm

    Retweeted by Russell Brown
    Maiki Sherman ‏@MaikiSherman 3 hrs
    #TeTaiTokerau Poll: Hone Harawira (MANA) 38% Kelvin Davis (Labour) 37% Te Hira Paenga (Maori) 9% #MaoriTV #TeKaea 7pm #NativeAffairs 8.30pm

    Fuck.

    *bites tongue about Labour*

    Fingers crossed it’s distorted by being a landline poll.

  33. Inky 33
    15 September 2014 at 10:24 pm

    Now the Aussies are seeing how our spy boys tapping the cable also affected them. Big story in SMH:

    Edward Snowden reveals tapping of major Australia-New Zealand undersea telecommunications cable

    http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/edward-snowden-reveals-tapping-of-major-australianew-zealand-undersea-telecommunications-cable-20140915-10h96v.html

  34. aj 34
    15 September 2014 at 10:26 pm

    Did anyone catch Campbell Live’s partial broadcast of the IP big reveal tonight.
    Campbell had as a guest former head of the GCSB Sir Bruce Ferguson running defense for Key and the GCSB.
    Although he departed the organisation in 2010 (?) he said fairly categorically that they would not be collecting wholesale metadata on New Zealanders.
    Campbell then quizzed him on whether the GCSB used Xkeyscore, which Ferguson did not deny existed and then in the last few moments of the interview totally contradicted his earlier statement “that they don’t collect data” by saying that ‘they have tools like that so they can go through the data”
    Campbell didn’t seem to pick up on this.
    Paraphrased, happy to be corrected or confirmed.