Open Mike 15/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 15th, 2017 - 133 comments
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133 comments on “Open Mike 15/11/2017 ”

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  1. patricia bremner 1
    15 November 2017 at 6:25 am

    jacinda appears to be having an impact on those she meets.

    • cleangreen 1.1
      15 November 2017 at 6:44 am

      We have sent a request to jacinda to come to meet our community groups in Gisborne/HB over our own “local government’s support to retore/re-open our mothballed rail services.”

      We are currently awaiting Jacinda’s acceptance to meet our committees in Napier & Gisborne, as we are happy if jacinda does want to be a ‘mover & shaker’ when these “roadblocks” are in everyone’s way.

      We see this morning our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has committeed $3 million dollars to give to the Manus Island refugees.

      Three million dollars is half we need to get our railn re-opened and it would only cost $6 million to re-open our Gisborne/Napier rail service without improvements, we are advised byour engineers.

      So we are seeing jacinda’s offer to communities needing help as a positive Patricia. “lets do this”.

      • OnceWasTim 1.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 6:38 pm

        Yep. And hopefully the money saved from corporate welfare (perhaps all the stuff that isn’t dressed up as ‘PPP’s ) will more than cover it.
        Once that Soimun no-Brudges vanity projek the Tauranga Expressway is paid off (the four lane thing that never sees traffic in one direction having vehicles parallel to each other in both lanes, even during peak hours) could have its tolls contribute to more sensible options (going forward).

        …. and then we have the Auckland East-West link. (and Judith Collins desperately trying to defend it in parliament today pulling out her best she-devil, would-be crusher, desperately trying to be sensible persona).

        • OnceWasTim 1.1.1.1
          15 November 2017 at 6:52 pm

          Ekshully @CG, now I think about it, it’d have been a fucking sight cheaper to have provided a kind of roll-on roll-off link between Murapara and (port of) Tauranga using rail than that elephant (no disrespect to elephants) that’s dressed up as a road ‘highway’. Do you know how many tunnels on that line there are that might need lowering? I can’t find any

  2. Andre 2
    15 November 2017 at 6:38 am

    An interesting and nuanced take on the 2016 Dem primary. Among other things, it makes a solid argument that Sanders was actually the biggest beneficiary of the cleared Democrat field.

    Because the fewer competitors there are trying to get your attention, the easier it is to grab a big chunk of it. If more solid competitors like Biden and Warren had also been in the race, then Sanders would have been relegated to the ineffectual fringe grumpy role he’s had his entire career.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/14/16640082/donna-brazile-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-rigged

    • marty mars 2.1
      15 November 2017 at 11:00 am

      Good article. Interesting to read the Clinton rigged it lines being pulled apart and given actual context rather than just a clintonhate vibe.

    • Sumsuch 2.2
      15 November 2017 at 10:28 pm

      You don’t understand the last 40 years. Biden is the flake , not Sanders. ‘Mr Vice-President’. You don’t understand the people v. the powerful. Our great grandfathers’ generation it was a flora of the guts we couldn’t deny.

  3. Ed 3
    15 November 2017 at 6:40 am

    It’s like I fell asleep and woke up in a different country.
    Kim Hill and John Campbell. What a dream start to the day!

  4. Ed 4
    15 November 2017 at 6:41 am

    ‘Daunting’ Antarctic sea ice plummet could be tipping point.

    ‘A dramatic drop in the amount of sea ice around Antarctica has scientists wondering if the continent has hit a tipping point.

    There has been a record 30 percent decrease in the total amount of sea ice, and this summer it’s disappearing from the Ross Sea at a rate not seen in more than 30 years.

    The rapidly changing conditions are having a major impact on this year’s scientific research at Scott Base, with scientists describing the changes as “unusual”, “unprecedented” and “daunting”.

    One of the affected scientists is Antarctic oceanographer Dr Natalie Robinson, who studies sea ice and what lies beneath it.

    “We had about 200km of sea ice to play with last year, but this year we’re down to about 25-30km, so it’s certainly a very different ball game,” she told Newshub.’

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2017/11/daunting-antarctic-sea-ice-plummet-could-be-tipping-point.html

    • cleangreen 4.1
      15 November 2017 at 6:55 am

      yes Ed ageed,

      Kim & John are a wonderful duo I have always had a deep respect for kim going back years as she has been an enduring soul who presents a simply delightful presentation of every item covered.

      long live Kim Hill, she should be made Radio NZ Production Manager ( and paid suitablly for this) and begin to teach all other presenters on public media the art of being neutral in presentation of issues, without bias!!!!!!

      As Kim & John are the only ones we hear that possess “neutrality without bias.”

      We hope they do cover this Antartica melting ice cap to the south of us as we will be dramatically affected by this within five years everywhere in our low lying global regions.

    • tc 4.2
      15 November 2017 at 6:57 am

      That and the northwest passage is pretty much never frozen over to prevent shipping anymore.

      Both ends are ‘burning’ in relative terms.

  5. Wyndham 5
    15 November 2017 at 6:59 am

    Kim Hill is a living treasure !

  6. Ed 6
    15 November 2017 at 7:12 am

    If I were the government, I’d deal with the neoliberal reserve bank.
    This is meddling by the banking and finance industries and they need to be reminded who is boss.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/343835/govt-reserve-bank-clash-over-kiwibuild-numbers.

    • patricia bremner 6.1
      15 November 2017 at 8:09 am

      Yes Ed, they are part of the “grumpy neo-liberal crowd” who have their snouts in the housing trough and do not want competition of any kind. Banks have grown fat on interest on inflated loans.

      The fact that the government will back developments by buying the smaller units and townhouses up to 20% of builds, to help meet demand, helps secures developer’s futures.

      Further, the freeing up of land assures no bottle necks, and the proposed fast tracking of pre-approved basic designs should speed up council approvals.

      These are co-operative ventures, not destructive ones competing for fewer homes as they are for differing parts of the market, and ensure continuity. Great!!

      • cleangreen 6.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 9:35 am

        100% Patricia,

        The greedies can’t get used of loosing control can they?

        We ask these ‘greedies’;

        “How much is enough”?

      • alwyn 6.1.2
        15 November 2017 at 9:53 am

        “Yes Ed, they are part of the “grumpy neo-liberal crowd” who have their snouts in the housing trough and do not want competition of any kind. Banks have grown fat on interest on inflated loans.”

        Do really not understand who, and what, the Reserve Bank is and what they do?
        They don’t loan money to people to buy houses.
        Actually they once used to, many, many years ago. They apparently would make loans to their staff. That was back in the sad old days when wages were low, tax rates were enormously high and perks were not taxed.
        Long, long, long ago though.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1
          15 November 2017 at 10:14 am

          They don’t loan money to people to buy houses.

          No, they loan it out to private banks after the private banks have loaned out so much money that they’re insolvent and need propping up.

          Actually they once used to, many, many years ago. They apparently would make loans to their staff. That was back in the sad old days when wages were low, tax rates were enormously high and perks were not taxed.
          Long, long, long ago though.

          Not just to their staff but to the general public to build houses. It was the old Housing Corp loan that many people used to buy/build their first home with minimal interest rate. This was discontinued when the government decided that corporate profit was more important than people.

          We could do it again. Done properly it would be far better than what we have now and better than what we had then as well.

          • Psycho Milt 6.1.2.1.1
            15 November 2017 at 1:01 pm

            Yep, the Housing Corp was awesome. Lent us money to buy a house when we were a shop assistant and a postgrad student – not many couples like that buying a house these days, unless they’ve rich relatives.

        • KJT 6.1.2.2
          15 November 2017 at 10:09 pm

          What old days when wages were low.?

          Another right wing alternative planet.

    • millsy 6.2
      15 November 2017 at 8:50 am

      Another example of the pushback that Labour is going to get when pushing through even then most modest of changes.

    • DH 6.3
      15 November 2017 at 9:08 am

      Twyford seems to have his finger on the pulse of it, this should provide a boost in developments by virtue of more funding.

      Banks won’t lend on a construction, they’ll only lend against a secure asset like the land. Developers usually need to find at least 40% of the cash to fund a development. Since it’s super high risk few will lend them the dosh and those that will charge usurious rates of interest.

      If the Govt is minimising the risk, as Twyford claims, then we should see more developments, not less, as more funding taps are turned on for them.

    • alwyn 6.4
      15 November 2017 at 9:48 am

      That’s funny Ed.
      Less than a week ago the Reserve Bank were being lauded as being the fountain of wisdom, on this site no less.
      Are you really advocating that they shouldn’t be allowed to carry out their job which is to give free and frank advice to the country?
      Look at all the enthusiasm for them and their opinions just a few days ago.
      https://thestandard.org.nz/reserve-bank-predicts-economic-growth-under-new-government/

      • cleangreen 6.4.1
        15 November 2017 at 2:47 pm

        Alwyn;

        “Are you really advocating that they shouldn’t be allowed to carry out their job which is to give free and frank advice to the country?”

        That is a big stretch to believe the RB really know what’s in ‘our best interest’, when they have been ‘overseeing’ us buying overseas funds fro forien banks to prop our “emergency funding” for disasters ect’ when other countries were using their RB to print money so now we are paying $6 Billlion annually in ‘interest only” on our huge crown debt now because of this when some of the ’emergency” funding had been printed by our RB instead.

        We advocate that the reserve ;bank act; be ammended and go back to as it was when the last time we had to print money.

        And the last time was under the first labour Government of Michael Joseph Savage when he and he pulled us out of the spiralling depression then doing it.

        Alwyn did you watch parliament yesterday when the $11.7 billion dollar man (S Joyce) asked David Parker if he had the cost figures for the Christchurch re-build?

        Parker said he believed it to be around $60 billion, so if true we are really being loaded up with so much overseas bank debt like Greece was, until we may finally go the same way as Greece.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.5
      15 November 2017 at 10:07 am

      Why do I get the distinct impression that the RBNZ doesn’t understand economics?

      The RBNZ would be right if the numbers of builders remained the same. Considering Kiwibuild always planned on better technology and training more builders this obviously isn’t the case and thus they’re wrong.

  7. eco maori 7
    15 November 2017 at 7:17 am

    I did not no my what my name was till my great grandmother died I stayed with the name she preferred to call me . But staying with the name I have has done me no favours as a person can tell I’m Maori and I don’t try and hide that fact.
    Good name for the new Kiwi In Rotorua I have a niece with that name and she has excellent parents her father has worked for DOC for 20 od years and her mother is a Teacher her future will be bright we have the same sir name.

    Do we really want OUR Warriors franchise or any sports franchise sold to Foreigners as OUR sports stars are one of the reason we have a big influence In OUR worlds Society.
    They could have ulterior motives and the only motive we want for OUR sports stars is to win fairly and for them to be good role models for our Moko’s and all the Moko’s around OUR world Ka pai

  8. Ed 8
    15 November 2017 at 7:27 am

    Yesterday Guyon found a racist thug called Ian who was happy to brutalise the inmates at Manus for 18 months.
    Guyon the Tory amplified this guard’s voice to smear Jacinda and Labour. No difficult questions were asked of Ian.

    This morning people were allowed to challenge the view of Ian.

    Why was such a thug allowed a platform in the first place, RNZ?

    • OnceWasTim 8.1
      15 November 2017 at 7:47 am

      I noticed Ian pulled out the old “I’m not racist BUT….” line.

      He might consider too that if you treat people the way they have been on Manus, and after the trauma they’ve already suffered, they’re not necessarily all going to be the compliant little beings Ian thinks they should be

    • Carolyn_Nth 8.2
      15 November 2017 at 10:40 am

      Well, it shows RNZ is truly public service, and gives space to diverse political views.

      And, public service media needs to do this. Fine if we then get some other interviewers at RNZ coming at the same issue from a different angle.

      It can’t be all liberal/left.

    • gsays 8.3
      15 November 2017 at 3:30 pm

      I was amused to hear a security guard pontificate on immigration and human psychology, too.
      From where do they get these experts?

  9. eco maori 9
    15 November 2017 at 8:06 am

    I’m putting this out there to protect my sibling and there Moko future .
    To the largest forestry management company in New Zealand the first letter in there name is P F.
    Can you make sure that my sibling get the best deal possible for there forestry estate harvest as they no nothing about forestry But I no a lot about this subject and I don’t want to use the Thunder .
    Because my sister is so stubborn she won’t admit she need my help just about but not quite . So I just use my wisdom to guide them in the right direction and they are listening to my lectures as my children put it I am there only wise protector who has there best interest at hart and I will not be happy if I see them being ripped off.
    As I no that some people see the innocent people as $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .P.S I was going to run and build a house on there estate but this action would not have been good for my Moko’s future and It’s there future that matters the most to me. Yes I could have challenged the estate but I don’t like being negtive on people especially with them so close to my Hart and I don’t like pissing money on Lawyers
    Kia kaha

  11. vto 11
    15 November 2017 at 8:36 am

    If wealth is pushed to the top, society collapses

    If wealth is pushed to the bottom, society prospers

    Why is this so hard to understand?
    Why is it so hard to action?

    • cleangreen 11.1
      15 November 2017 at 9:39 am

      VTO That was brilliant. thanks for that.

    • eco maori 11.2
      15 November 2017 at 10:12 am

      +100

    • Draco T Bastard 11.3
      15 November 2017 at 10:20 am

      Why is this so hard to understand?

      Some people don’t want to understand that as they like to think that they’re special and that’s why they’re rich and everyone else is poor.

      Why is it so hard to action?

      Now, that’s a very good question. Why do our governments always kowtow to the rich and what they want and don’t listen to everyone else?

      • eco maori 11.3.1
        15 November 2017 at 5:52 pm

        It’s because money has got power and they have a lot of money.
        Money has power because We give the power to money it would be toilet paper if we did not worship money over everything else in OUR WORLD SOCIETY Ka Pai

  12. Pete 12
    15 November 2017 at 9:02 am

    The changes to paid parental leave has given Hosking a chance to show what an arse he is.

    “National were never fans of expanding paid parental leave” he says so that means he can declare that Labour are “telling us how to live our lives and how to raise our kids.”

    • ianmac 12.1
      15 November 2017 at 9:28 am

      Hoskings seems increasingly weird. Perhaps he should have a chat with J Kirwin and seek help.

      • Sumsuch 12.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 10:43 pm

        Enjoy his teeth. And , given he grew up in the welfare state like me , I have no polite reluctance in hacking his ankles with the most forceful blows. Vive us.

  13. Morrissey 13
    15 November 2017 at 9:05 am

    See if you can watch this appalling performance by New York’s
    moronic governor Andrew Cuomo without screaming at your screen.

    Imagine if, in the 1950s, New York Governor Averell Harriman had attacked the Montgomery bus boycott, or if Governor Rockefeller in the ’70s had attacked the anti-apartheid movement. They didn’t, of course, which makes them morally and ethically very different to the intellectual pygmy that currently sits in Albany….

    http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201711140214-0025544

    • ianmac 13.1
      15 November 2017 at 9:31 am

      Freedom to bear arms Morrissey. Solid.
      Freedom of free speech. Ummm. Not really.

    • alwyn 13.2
      15 November 2017 at 10:04 am

      Give the poor guy a break.
      He’s a Democrat and they really aren’t very smart.
      As Will Rogers put it so well.
      “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat”.
      Cuomo is pretty good evidence of that statement.

      • red-blooded 13.2.1
        15 November 2017 at 10:42 am

        Truly? Trump isn’t a Democrat, and neither are any of his voters or the various morons he’s appointed to key positions. Are you sure you’re attacking the right party? (And this from the guy who today announced that he didn’t know what the Reserve Banks does and yet a few minute later thought his comments on their activities should carry some weight…)

      • Morrissey 13.2.2
        15 November 2017 at 4:09 pm

        Thanks alwyn, your point is a very good one. Because the Democratic Party is dominated by the likes of the Cuomo and Clinton families, we can look forward to indefinite Republican Party rule in the United States

        • alwyn 13.2.2.1
          15 November 2017 at 6:12 pm

          “indefinite Republican Party rule in the United States”

          Now I am really getting scared. I don’t think very much of the leading lights in the Democratic Party but the Republicans are generally even more ‘barking at the moon’ types.

          I will confess my personal choice, if I had been able to vote in the US, would have been Republican Governor Kasich of Ohio but he is definitely an odd one amount among his party. The rest of the people who ran for President were pretty flaky and Trump was the worst. He could end up getting us into a war.

          Even Hillary would have been much, much better.

  14. Ad 14
    15 November 2017 at 9:30 am

    Dance all around the world.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  15. ianmac 15
    15 November 2017 at 9:39 am

    Anyone wonder if Jacinda is loosing weight? The pace that she has adopted since becoming the Leader and PM must be taking a toll. Take care Jacinda.

    • cleangreen 15.1
      15 November 2017 at 9:51 am

      Yes, Ianmac, jacinda has lost weight.

      I noticed this too.

      Jacinda; – while you stress stop & be kind to your body to please.

      Get a daily massage to mobilise the toxins & take a hyrotherapy bath every day as i do, by adding backing soda, and other times use hyrogen peroxide (H2O2) (about a half of a honey pot filled or more of H2O2.

      The hydrogen peroxide forces oxygen (like a hypobaric chamber in reverse) into your body and this energises the body, while it destroys all the free radical cells we take in our polluted environment every day, which can cause toxicity and more extreme symtoms.

      “Lets do this.” ilovejacinda.

      • Stunned Mullet 15.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 10:36 am

        “The hydrogen peroxide forces oxygen (like a hypobaric chamber in reverse) into your body and this energises the body, while it destroys all the free radical cells we take in our polluted environment every day,..”

        Um no it really doesn’t..

    • Anne 15.2
      15 November 2017 at 9:52 am

      Yes, she has lost weight and it shows in her face. I’m sure her partner Clarke will be preparing nourishing meals for when she returns. She’s had a frenetic two and a bit months. Amazing to think what has happened in such a short space of time. I’m still pinching myself for confirmation it is all true. 🙂

      • veutoviper 15.2.1
        15 November 2017 at 2:56 pm

        I am still pinching myself also. Jacinda is certainly looking a bit thinner, particularly in her face – but it is hardly surprising with not just the frenetic pace of the political side of her life, but losing both her beloved grandmother and her adored cat in the midst of it all. But Clarke is on to it and has the fish as part of healthy food in hand …

        https://twitter.com/NZClarke/status/930591243461042176

    • OnceWasTim 15.3
      15 November 2017 at 10:13 am

      Yep. But at the same time I’ve been wondering whether Mr Creosote is expanding.
      I’m pretty sure Ms Adern will cope, I’m not so sure about Brownlee.

    • weka 15.4
      15 November 2017 at 1:42 pm

      Stress is a killer. Look at the state of Obama’s body by the time he left the White House.

  16. Bearded Git 16
    15 November 2017 at 9:41 am

    This is good news. Will reverse some of the sly pro-developer anti-landscape rules the previous government slipped through under the radar of most people.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98853157/david-parker-plans-to-reverse-nick-smiths-resource-consent-nonnotification-law

    Nick Smith and his cronies have a lot to answer for.

  17. adam 17
    15 November 2017 at 9:50 am

    For lprent – This is starting them very young on the world of coding. https://kano.me/

  18. Puckish Rogue 18
    15 November 2017 at 10:18 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98887491/opposition-making-a-sport-out-of-question-time

    Not sure about Jane Cliftons political allegiances but surely even the most one-eyed, dyed-in-the-wool leftie can’t be impressed by how the new government is going

    • Bearded Git 18.1
      15 November 2017 at 10:26 am

      After 9 years of lies and evasion under a weak and biased Speaker this looks pretty good to me.

      I would have thought you would have been applauding Labour’s pragmatism on CRPTPTPPC or whatever it is, Pukish

      • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 12:17 pm

        I think its a good move by Labour/NZFirst because we need to trade, simple as that. But I’m not a leftie, I didn’t vote for a party that was protesting the TPPA, I voted for a party that supported the TPPA

        I will agree that Trev (and Tolley…TnT perhaps?) have made a good start as speaker and deputy speaker and long may it continue

    • Robert Guyton 18.2
      15 November 2017 at 10:40 am

      Clifton’s column didn’t read “unimpressed” to me; she notes that the “keepers” are keeping mum while their bosses are away; very wise, I’d have thought, and that Trevor Mallard has the measure of even the slimiest of the Nats, citing Bridges attempt at humour/smarminess; Clifton notes that no Nat dared try him on his Hurrumph ruling. I reckon you’re wrong in your claim that no one is impressed by the Government’s performance, very wrong indeed. As an aside, isn’t it wonderful not to have to be be exposed to Key’s snide, immature schoolyard taunts and put-downs. What a pill he was! What a joy too, listening to Trevor Mallard bring respect back to the Speaker’s role. We suffered some appalling years with Carter plonked onto that seat.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.2.1
        15 November 2017 at 12:20 pm

        “she notes that the “keepers” are keeping mum while their bosses are away; very wise, I’d have thought”

        Yes better to be thought a fool etc etc

        (Nope, no irony there at all)

        • alwyn 18.2.1.1
          15 November 2017 at 2:45 pm

          “while their bosses are away”.
          Are you sure? I doubt that Heather Simpson, who I gather is back in the PM’s office, was off on the jaunt overseas with Ardern.
          She will certainly have been cracking the whip over the Cabinet members. Trevor started off quite well on day 1. After that though I’ll bet he got called in and fed the riot act. He’ll now turn into a fawning wimp like Margaret Wilson. Nobody would dare offend H2 twice.

    • Carolyn_Nth 18.3
      15 November 2017 at 10:44 am

      probably bending over backwards trying to show she is objective:

      Jane Clifton and Trevor Mallard wed (2014).

      • alwyn 18.3.1
        15 November 2017 at 3:17 pm

        Very sad isn’t it?
        Jane Clifton has certainly had appalling taste in men during her life.
        Shame, as her columns are most interesting and would indicate that she is an intelligent woman.

    • Sumsuch 18.4
      15 November 2017 at 11:03 pm

      You haven’t noticed? She’s an agreer and supporter of 1984. After all it’s been good for the top 10 %. That is to say, as a thinker, she’s consciously repudiated the 90 %. No problem except for her being a NZer. I admire her quickness , where I failed as a journalist, but few of the middle class pooped up by their unprivileged parents had enough imagination for their parents circumstances.

  19. The Chairman 19
    15 November 2017 at 10:42 am

    Next month the company will promote a New Zealand webpage for agents and property developers who want to raise their profile and advertise properties in China before the change.

    “This campaign is really trying to assist those Chinese buyers who do have a real need to invest in New Zealand, whether because their children are studying in New Zealand or their families and relatives already live there and they’re potentially looking to migrate there in the future.”

    With new builds exempt from the new ban, Jane Lu said interest from China in the New Zealand market would remain strong.

    “We do believe, of course, with the new policy change it will … push the overseas Chinese buyers into the new development sector.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/343811/foreign-buyers-set-for-rush-to-beat-cutoff.

    So Labour’s so-called ban on offshore investors is expected to drive them towards new developments, which will create a ripple effect keeping upward pressure on housing costs.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    15 November 2017 at 10:48 am

    If you’ve got the bandwidth and the screen this goes up to 4k

  21. Carolyn_Nth 21
    15 November 2017 at 11:50 am

    RNZ: Clare Curran says the government won’t be selling off TVNZ.

    Response to OIA docments showing TVNZ’s declining revenue:

    Broadcasting Minister Clare Curran is alarmed the previous government did nothing to address TVNZ’s declining revenue, despite being warned about it by officials earlier this year, she says.

    …
    However, Ms Curran said the government had been left with an organisation that had been neglected and had no ministerial oversight.

    “I feel some alarm at the strategic challenges that the previous government was aware of and did nothing about.

    “[We’ll be] seeking some urgent advice from Treasury and we’ll be wanting to explore a full range of options from talking to officials and also the board of TVNZ as to approach its strategic challenges.

    • Draco T Bastard 21.1
      15 November 2017 at 1:09 pm

      Broadcasting Minister Clare Curran is alarmed the previous government did nothing to address TVNZ’s declining revenue, despite being warned about it by officials earlier this year, she says.

      Sounds like typical National. Run it into the ground in preparation for selling it on the cheap to their donors.

  22. Colonial Viper 22
    15 November 2017 at 12:31 pm

    A whole lot of people fell for yet another round of anti-Assange/Don Trump Jnr smears yesterday, this time fired up by The Atlantic and then repeated all around the world.

    Firstly, Assange openly tweeted about communicating with Don Jnr way back in July

    https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/884853347815235584

    Secondly, the Atlantic appears to have deliberately misrepresented the material between Assange and Don Jnr by multiple selective edits and omissions.

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-atlantic-commits-malpractice-selectively-edits-to-smear-wikileaks-65ecd7c2468f

    The author of the Atlantic article, Julia Ioffe, put a period rather than a comma at the end of the text about not wanting to appear pro-Trump or pro-Russia, and completely omitted WikiLeaks’ statement following the comma that it considers those allegations slanderous. This completely changes the way the interaction is perceived.
    This is malpractice. Putting an ellipsis (…) and then omitting the rest of the sentence would have been sleazy and disingenuous enough, because you’re leaving out crucial information but at least communicating to the reader that there is more to the sentence you’ve left out, but replacing the comma with a period obviously communicates to the reader that there is no more to the sentence. If you exclude important information while communicating that you have not, you are blatantly lying to your readers.

    • Bill 22.1
      15 November 2017 at 1:02 pm

      The damage has been done CV, and this was just yet another grain of sand put atop an increasingly large heap (and Assange is in the company of many, many others who’ve been buried in such a way).

      Picking up on and arguing against every instance of it happening won’t lead anywhere…not even if you eventually win every argument.

      People think (or choose to believe) that that which is heaping the grains of sand is a force of good – that, though perhaps flawed, it’s essentially benevolent.

      That belief runs deep and it’s that that needs challenged. Picking up on particular singular causes and running with them breathlessly can, for a number of reasons, be counter productive.

      It’s a tricky one to navigate.

      • weka 22.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 1:40 pm

        The main reason I commented about it yesterday is because of the reputation of Wikileaks (don’t actually care that much about Assange one way or the other). In that sense I think these things are worth bring into discussion and seeing what happens. Wikileaks appears to be increasingly less reliable and I don’t think that’s all down to a pile of sand grains.

        • Bill 22.1.1.1
          15 November 2017 at 6:15 pm

          When you say “less reliable”, what do you mean?

          From memory, there have been accusations that information being made public ought not to have been made public.

          But, as far as I know, there has never been any suggestion that information coming through Wikileaks (and they are basically, though not wholly, a conduit for information) has been false.

    • Andre 22.2
      15 November 2017 at 1:58 pm

      For anyone more interested in the big picture of the forest, rather than examining the vein patterns on leaves, here’s something to consider.

      http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/politics/trump-jr-wikileaks-russia/index.html

  23. Andre 23
    15 November 2017 at 1:44 pm

    The old saying is “follow the money”. So what are the money trails that might lead Putin to supporting Comrade Combover? Here’s some possibilities…

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/14/opinions/why-does-vladimir-putin-hate-me-browder-opinion/index.html

  24. Muttonbird 24
    15 November 2017 at 1:53 pm

    Here’s what David Farrar’s website is saying about the Prime Minister today.

    5,167 COMMENTS
    Rich Prick

    That fucking bitch has sold us out in her march for UN virtue points. Enjoy applying for visas and attending the embassy for interviews, just to pop over to Sydney for the weekend people. Stupid fucking bitch. Ask yourself, are those restraints on our freedom worth it for the 150 rapists and criminals Cindy wants to bring home?
    Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1REPLY REPORTNOVEMBER 14, 2017 11:21PM

    • Rosemary McDonald 24.1
      15 November 2017 at 2:09 pm

      Farrar’s Ferals at their very, very best. (/sarc btw)

      What rips my undies is that our State Broadcaster, the otherwise relatively tolerable Natrad, insists on having Farrar as a regular guest.

      My tinfoilhatwearingnutbar alter ego kinda figured that it was part of some nefarious deal with Those Who Will Not Be Mentioned in order to maintain their pathetic level of funding.

      Farrar’s actually worse than that other right wing commentator they have on from time to time…

      • Muttonbird 24.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 2:18 pm

        There’s a level of endorsement from Farrar for comments like that because they are unmoderated. He might claim the views of his commenters don’t represent his but by leaving them up he is accepting of that kind of language towards the PM.

        • james 24.1.1.1
          15 November 2017 at 2:38 pm

          Not really – using your logic it would mean that “the standard” (or its owners / moderators) have a level of endorsement for post that they leave up (assuming you are being even handed in your application of moral outrage)

          Remember when a poster on here said that Ashburton WINZ murder should be held up as a hero ?

          https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02092014/#comment-878213

          As this is a moderated blog – and that the comment was left up – would you be saying that there is a level of endorsement from the people that run this website?

          No – of course not. What that poster (as well as the Rick Prick” posted above) is disgusting and the people making those comments should be ashamed of themselves.

          Regardless of political leanings – there is no need for that level of comment.

          I dont post on kiwiblog – but if I did I would be downticking Rick Pricks comment to get it hidden.

          But it needs to be seen for what it is – the view (all be it a poor one) of a commentor and its not the blog stating it.

          [Farrar is well known for allowing content that wouldn’t be acceptable here. e.g. the comment that Muttonbird quotes would almost certainly get moderated here. That’s because we don’t tolerate misogyny.

          Read the bit in the policy that says “What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others” and consider what it is like for many women to have to be around men that call women stupid fucking bitches or align themselves with rape culture advocates. And what it is like for those women to be in spaces where that is passively endorsed.

          Farrar sets the standard at his blog. There is a standard at The Standard too, so I’m pointing out that we have active moderation here to inhibit bigots of many kinds because they’re basically antisocial and bad for political discussions as well as being generally harmful to society – weka]

          • Rosemary McDonald 24.1.1.1.1
            15 November 2017 at 3:19 pm

            James, James, James.

            To support your argument you pull out a comment from years ago which, if we actually go and have a look, provoked a shit ton of opprobrium for the original commentator and led to a very interesting and thought provoking debate.

            The debate was…nuanced…which is not a characteristic of Farrar’s little cesspit dwellers.

            • james 24.1.1.1.1.1
              15 November 2017 at 6:09 pm

              Rosemary – you are missing the point of my post.

              But hey – there are plenty of other post on here calling National MP’s names, picking on their appearance or weight.

              My point was commenters do not speak for the site – its a basic concept.

              • weka …
                15 November 2017 at 8:06 pm

                No, but the owners and authors of the site do have a responsibility for the comments. So death threats and threats of violence are usually removed. Stuff that is grossly sexist or racist likewise. I’ve moderated people for fat phobia. You probably don’t see the stuff that gets removed.

                Farrar doesn’t care because he wants a reactionary blog that foments hatred. So that’s what he gets.

          • weka 24.1.1.1.2
            15 November 2017 at 8:03 pm

            There are two moderation notes in this thread for you, one requires a response.

            I am curious about this comment though, and if you can come up with any examples other than the Tully comment. I’m guessing not. It doesn’t surprise me that people who vote for a party that had a leader for 8 years that supported rape culture can’t tell the difference between KB and here. But there is a difference. I think you are focussed on the things you don’t like, but that’s not how it works. It’s about creating spaces that are safer and more attractive to a range of people. Farrar obviously wants misogynists and that’s what KB gets.

        • Rosemary McDonald 24.1.1.2
          15 November 2017 at 3:14 pm

          “There’s a level of endorsement from Farrar for comments like that….”

          We can only assume that the comments he fails to moderate are actually from real individuals. If I were on a mission to promulgate a certain narrative then using such a site would be an ideal way of spreading the word under the guise of vigorous and open debate.

          The site certainly attracts those with a propensity to hate speech.

          Who knew there were so many of them with enough time on their hands…?

      • cleangreen 24.1.2
        15 November 2017 at 3:09 pm

        I stand with you solidly Rosemary;

        David Farrar must go, and we understand the revamp of the public broadcaster Radio NZ will rout these National Party lobbyists such as Farrar, Hooten, and any other biased National puppets, because the public broadcaster was abused and used by national for nine years and manipulated by the chief National Propagangist Steven Joyce as his propaganda platform illegally.

        So we welcome the removal of these propagandists from our public funded media.

        This can’t happen fast enough.

    • james 24.2
      15 November 2017 at 2:32 pm

      No – thats not what his website is saying about the prime minister – its what a commenter said about her. (for the record – I think the comment made is disgusting)

      Just like some of the filth that has been put on this site by commentators is not being said my the standard.

      • joe90 24.2.1
        15 November 2017 at 2:43 pm

        Where can I find this filth that has been put on this site by commentators?.

        edit: oh, and I think you’ll find millsy has often been roundly condemned for his obnoxious posts.

        • alwyn 24.2.1.1
          15 November 2017 at 2:55 pm

          For joe90.
          Try having a look at this one as an example.
          https://thestandard.org.nz/al-jazeera-on-nz-homeless-watch-it-and-weep/#comment-1216824
          I would normally list a few of the comments from it but I really don’t think you should have such utter rubbish as this pushed into your face.
          If you have a strong stomach you can follow the link though.

          • joe90 24.2.1.1.1
            15 November 2017 at 3:19 pm

            Oh do fuck off .

            You know full well that since the day the woman won the leadership, the demented fucks have been throwing truly vile misogynist insults, targeting everything from her looks, her health, her private life, her body shape through to her choice of attire and hair style, and smearing her character, honesty, motivations and intelligence, surpassing any thing they threw at Clark.

            I’m no shrinking violet and I like putting the needle in but this shit is truly nauseating 4chan/gamergate style hate speech that’s arrived, fresh from the fetid swamp that is US political discourse.

            And Farrar publishes it, so fuck him too.

            • alwyn 24.2.1.1.1.1
              15 November 2017 at 3:30 pm

              Did you read my link?
              Are you really going to say that the sort of comment I linked to doesn’t count as filth?
              Do you really think that Key should have been burnt to death or that Bolger should be shot? Fair comment do you say?

              Would you really hold the administrators of this site responsible for comments like the one I pointed to?
              I certainly wouldn’t, just as I wouldn’t hold Farrar responsible for the crap some people post on Kiwiblog about Ardern or Clark.

              It is, unfortunately an innate fact of life on the Internet.

              • joe90 …
                15 November 2017 at 4:02 pm

                Your whataboutism doesn’t wash because occasional unhinged comments by unhinged folk ain’t the same as day in day out, page after page of vile4chan/gamergate style hate speech authored by multiple contributors, specifically targeting women.

                And yes, I want publishers to be responsible for the crap some people post on their sites. A day or so ago over at the sewer there was an actionable comment, that still stands, and one day Farrar or some other publisher will be called to account and required to turn over their visitor logs stats. The sooner the better, I reckon.

                • alwyn …
                  15 November 2017 at 6:24 pm

                  “occasional unhinged comments by unhinged folk”.
                  What was occasional about these sort of comments?
                  Just search for “Key treason” and see how many hits you get.
                  Or just look at anything by “Wild Katipo”.

                  • marty mars …
                    15 November 2017 at 9:48 pm

                    I found 879 hits when I searched on ‘alwyn foolish’ does that help?

                    • alwyn …
                      15 November 2017 at 10:45 pm

                      That is an amazing number, really it is.
                      I tried it in the search panel on this blog.
                      I didn’t find nearly as many as that and I discovered that in every case it was me using the word, usually about people like you. I didn’t see a single case where someone had used it to describe me.
                      I shall have to expand my vocabulary. Perhaps I should stop describing you as “foolish” for a while and simply call you an idiot.
                      Would you prefer that?

                    • marty mars …
                      15 November 2017 at 11:03 pm

                      ☺ good you tried it out i thought you would – just trying to help you with the moaner you were on – no need for that level of abuse mate pull your head in.

                  • cleangreen …
                    15 November 2017 at 10:35 pm

                    Alwyn cool it please;

                    We are all trying to help a new government succeed making NZ a kinder, gentler, society after the nine cruel toxic years of a National party hate campaign.

              • McFlock …
                15 November 2017 at 4:14 pm

                It’s funny – I actually went to KB and couldn’t find muttonbird’s quote. I did find piles of similarly disgusting comments in the most likely threads, though.

                Whereas I’m actually surprised the comment you found slipped through the mods’ radar, and it’s most definitely an exception to the norm.

              • weka …
                15 November 2017 at 8:11 pm

                “Would you really hold the administrators of this site responsible for comments like the one I pointed to?
                I certainly wouldn’t, just as I wouldn’t hold Farrar responsible for the crap some people post on Kiwiblog about Ardern or Clark.”

                We remove stuff like that all the time. Pay attention. And yes, admin and the authors here take it seriously and actively moderate. Stop trying to be an apologist for Farrar’s really shitty politics.

                I’m going to edit the Bolger comment now. The Key one can stand, it’s a metaphor.

            • james 24.2.1.1.1.2
              15 November 2017 at 6:18 pm

              “the demented fucks have been throwing truly vile misogynist insults, targeting everything from her looks, her health, her private life, her body shape through to her choice of attire and hair style, and smearing her character, honesty, motivations and intelligence, ”

              And you think that commenters on here havn’t done the same about Paula Bennett or Judith Collins?

              again – Im simply pointing out that people who make comments do not speak for the website – is that a hard concept for you to grasp?

              edit: And as a “righty” – I’m pretty confident that you will not find comments like that about Jacinda from myself.

              [I’d like to see some examples of comments on TS about Bennett or Collins that are similar to ones at KB. Three examples, with quotes and links, thanks – weka]

            • marty mars 24.2.1.1.1.3
              15 November 2017 at 6:35 pm

              + 1 Joe – you nailed it. Filthy scum over there.

        • james 24.2.1.2
          15 November 2017 at 2:55 pm

          There have been some very rude comments about National MP’s for years – not hard to find them.

          and indeed – Millsy was – Im not arguing that. What I was pointing out is that the commenter is making the statements and its not what the blog is saying or endorsing.

  25. joe90 25
    15 November 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Irrefutable……oops…..such an easy mistake to make.

    //

    This is the irrefutable evidence that there is no struggle against terrorism as the whole global community believes. The US are actually covering the ISIS combat units to recover their combat capabilities, redeploy, and use them to promote the American interests in the Middle East.

    https://www.facebook.com/mod.mil.rus/posts/2007062896203123

    “At the same time, the refusal of the US command to strike November 9 against the columns of terrorists IGIL (the outdated name of the IG-TASS commentary) retreating in the Bu-Kemal area is an objective fact recorded in the transcripts of the talks, and therefore well-known to the American side, just like and the active counteraction by the US aircraft of the air force of the Russian Air Force, which was ready to destroy the IGIL terrorists, regrouping for new attacks on government forces in the Bu-Kemal area, “the military department said.
    Earlier, the Ministry of Defense spread the message that the US refused to strike at the IG militants on the Syrian-Iraqi border, and published photographs of the column of terrorists. However, Internet users noticed that the screenshots are screenshots made from the computer game AC-130 Gunship Simulator: Special Ops Squadron.

    https://translate.google.co.nz/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4728484&prev=search

  26. rhinocrates 26
    15 November 2017 at 2:39 pm

    On the degradation of citizens to consumers, via The New Yorker.

    The background: Keurig temporarily withdrew advertising from Sean Hannity’s show after he voiced support for paedophile Republican Senate candidate, Roy Moore. In protest, other Moore supporters posted videos of themselves destroying their Keurig coffee machines. Also, Nazi website The Daily Stormer proclaimed Papa John’s the “official pizza of the alt. right,” for some obscure reason related to NFL protests.

    how moored our notions of civic engagement have become to our sense of ourselves as consumers, and how easy that fact is to aggravate and exploit…. In his Keurig video, Snoop Bailey is selling something, too.Before he busts up his coffeemaker, he touts the qualities of the golf club he’s using, and then later instructs his viewers to buy a competing brand of coffee, one that’s owned by military veterans. What looks at first like a strange act of suburban rage is really just another commercial.

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/keurig-papa-johns-and-the-politicization-of-american-junk

  27. Ad 27
    15 November 2017 at 3:20 pm

    Simon Wilson writes a nice long article wanting a kind of radical centrism for New
    Zealand:

    “A radical centre in New Zealand would not be Macronist, because we are not France. It would have its own guiding principles, and they might look something like this:

    -T he economy and the environment are one.
    – Long-term planning is fundamental to the purpose of government.
    – Fiscal surpluses are invaluable for that long-term planning.
    – The state doesn’t need to do everything.
    – Government exists to safeguard and enhance the values of society and the rights of citizens, not to cut taxes.
    – Low inflation is a foundational tool for creating opportunity for all.
    – A developed economy should be a high-wage economy.
    – Poverty and all its bitter handmaidens can be defeated, and they must be. Not sometime, when we can, if we can; but as a result of policies we put in place right now.”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-11-2017/new-radicals-the-challenge-for-nz-politics-in-the-time-of-corbyn-and-trump/

    • greywarshark 27.1
      15 November 2017 at 5:24 pm

      Blah, blah, utopian wet dream and we don’t know what Simon means when he makes certain statements:

      A developed economy should be a high-wage economy. Behind that large poster there is embedded poverty and people’s smarts twisted on how to screw a life out
      of the crusts that have been thrown to them. Perhaps his standard will be reached by letting them die in the cold. Take out the no-wage then the low-wage and you get a nice self-satisfied bunch of strivers.

      Perhaps they will all be like Alex the conniving finance dealer in the Peattie & Taylor cartoons. The look of things is important and that his peers can see that he can afford the best. He tells his wife off for buying expensive silk alluring underwear.
      Don’t worry dear she says, no-one but you will see it. ‘That’s what’s bothering me’
      he replies.

      Poverty isn’t so dreadful, some people might like to live simply, but there need to be options to earn enough for it, plus a basic pension. What we need is everyone who is receiving government help being asked to do a few hours put-in, and that is all rich and poor. And this be regarded well as being good citizens by all and they receive a thank you certificate at year end.

  29. Andre 29
    15 November 2017 at 4:46 pm

    😆

    Apparently this chart explains why the Department of Justice is corrupt because it’s not still investigating Hillary and Uranium One. Put together and shown to congress and the world by Louie Gohmert, one of the ever-helpful Republican caucus.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2017/11/14/16652876/louie-gohmert-conspiracy-chart

    I’m having a bit of trouble grasping what I’m supposed to take away from it. Anyone here want to help with some interpretive assistance?

    • marty mars 29.1
      15 November 2017 at 9:56 pm

      Fast and furious was not such a great movie unless you like cars and this led to executive privilege with prejudice and thus clintion is bbbbbbad to the bone.

  30. eco maori 30
    15 November 2017 at 6:15 pm

    What a load of BS pay 2 parents to look after children you no that would cost to much and there are other more urgent problems that need resources to fix the stuff ups of the last 9 years who’s chain is bull pulling. Kia Kaha

    • james 30.1
      15 November 2017 at 6:21 pm

      eco Maori – I think you will find in the proposal from National that they share the parental allowance – so there is no additional cost – just flexibility should both parents want to be there.

      so no BS – no additional cost

      • cleangreen 30.1.1
        15 November 2017 at 10:45 pm

        Paula Bennett lost her composure today and even the deputy speaker Anne Tollley had to pulll her up for inappropriate behaviour. Then Paula said wildly “I just got carried away”

        Search on the parlaimametary site, speaking time, around 3.20pm today please.

        It was so offensive that I had to turn off the sound.

        National appear to be finding it very hard to live now without all that previous power they had to abuse the public any time they freely wanted.

        Very sad performance today.

  31. cleangreen 31
    15 November 2017 at 11:05 pm

    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20171115_20171115_08

    Scroll down for Bennett’s content in her speech.
    It was the way she said it all, that was offensive, as she was wildly ranting on wildly.

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