Open mike 16/08/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 16th, 2024 - 35 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

35 comments on “Open mike 16/08/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Jilly Bee 1
    16 August 2024 at 8:01 am

    I would have preferred to have someone like Sir Ashley doing Lester Levy's job – but he would have been too close to the last Government for this lot's go to people. Also, I would think AB has far too much integrity to get caught up in this CoC's destruction. https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350380452/sir-ashley-bloomfield-says-government-attacks-bloated-health-bureaucracy

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1
      16 August 2024 at 8:28 am

      Yea that would never have happened because …Integrity. And Sir Ashley Bloomfield would have been an advocate FOR NZ Health.

      Evidence? (apart from all the other ! )

      Sir Ashley is characteristically diplomatic and measured throughout most of the interview, delivering criticism with a delicate hand. But for the tobacco industry, he has no such reservations.

      “This industry is completely absent a moral compass. All it is trying to do is generate profits and it doesn't care about the health and wellbeing of people.”

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350380452/sir-ashley-bloomfield-says-government-attacks-bloated-health-bureaucracy

      Tobacco Reti….and Casey Costello. Leaders of Ill Health.

      • ianmac 1.1.1
        16 August 2024 at 9:53 am

        Sir Ashley points out the damage done by the PM and Minister of Health and Levy by their rubbishing the Health system. Every time these people from a position of power, badmouth the operation of health, it drops the confidence of staff and patients. Who would want to sign up for a "failed system!"

        Same with Education. The bad mouthing of Health and Education is straight out of the Trump playbook. Sick I say!

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1
          16 August 2024 at 10:04 am

          For sure. As Mountain Tui and others have exposed, Atlas Network have huge influence within NACT1.

          Downsizing of Health, Education and others….becomes privatising of same. Which is NACT1's end point.

          All for the enrichment of the few..to the detriment of the many.

        • bwaghorn 1.1.1.2
          16 August 2024 at 11:48 am

          Moral must be at an all time low in the health system, don't blame them if they all leave to oz or the industry totally

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2
    16 August 2024 at 8:40 am

    Bay of Islands Hospital doctors speak out as new patients to be turned away: 'We are now at our limit'

    Overworked doctors at beleaguered Bay of Islands Hospital say any new patients will have to be sent to other hospitals this weekend – and in weekends to come – because there won't be enough medical staff to look after them.

    The doctors said they had reached their limits and were speaking out, despite a ban on talking to the media, because they had a duty of care to the community.

    Whangārei Hospital emergency specialist Gary Payinda is among those who have tried to sound the alarm over staffing levels in Kawakawa.

    When Dargaville Hospital was unable to find doctors to fill its overnight rosters last month, he warned Bay of Islands Hospital would be "the next domino to fall".

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/525295/bay-of-islands-hospital-doctors-speak-out-as-new-patients-to-be-turned-away-we-are-now-at-our-limit

    More and more it becomes "It became necessary to destroy the village Health System "

    Oh NZ, Where will we be in years to come after NACT1 and their right wing enablers have finished.

    • Tiger Mountain 2.1
      16 August 2024 at 9:09 am

      It is more obvious every day that organising and fight back time is here–direct action as appropriate–and that should hopefully not be in a form that makes things even worse for those in health queues.

      In Kaitaia tomorrow a meeting has been called by various Iwi and public employees with anyone supporting Te Tiriti and opposing cuts welcome. It is to co-ordinate a community response towards the shower of s**t the Natzos are raining down on vulnerable citizens–including mental health and disabled sectors!!

      We cannot just moan, point out the obvious and wait until 2026 to make these vandals a one term Govt. Their backers and supporters need to be targeted asap.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1
        16 August 2024 at 9:35 am

        Aye Tiger Mountain. NACT1 have an agenda, and its not for the wellbeing of the majority of NZ.

        They need strong pushback !

      • gsays 2.1.2
        16 August 2024 at 9:51 am

        That sounds great. All power to y'all.

        With some organization and a bit of luck you can get the government's attention. Sincere question – then what?

        I've seen yr calls for NZCTU and others to take action and I agree. As a member I've found E Tu to be a bit quiet.

        Generally when industrial action occurs, there is a set of demands, conditions or changes that can be articulated.

        I'm hoping a collective brain storm can come up with some ideas.

        To go back to how it was is setting a low bar. As Adam pointed out last night in Daily Review, Whaikaha wasn't much chop under Labour.

        Wishing you the best of luck tomorrow.

        • Tiger Mountain 2.1.2.1
          16 August 2024 at 9:57 am

          I’ll report back. In the North for years people have supported each other in practical ways as much as possible, transport, child care, education, food, housing initiatives etc. as many other places do too, but now so many are under attack that have helped build capacity in recent years that we have a new situation.

          • gsays 2.1.2.1.1
            16 August 2024 at 10:31 am

            Sounds great.

            Is it more like building on local resilience rather the pressuring the regime to change its ways?

  3. tWig 3
    16 August 2024 at 10:23 am

    And almost all need that touch of government subsidy to keep going, to cover admin and money-handling and IT.

    It struck me years ago that the government could support community groups by providing accounting and IT services from a central hub. That way, the focus of the groups could be on what they have volunteered to deliver. Although, perhaps where would those accountants with a social conscience do on retirement?

  5. tWig 5
    16 August 2024 at 10:34 am

    And for those saying Curia is an unbiased pollster:

    The rat jumped the ship!… – Debunking Conspiracies Aotearoa | Facebook

    "The rat jumped the ship! Five days before Curia Research was found in breach of professional industry standards, David Farrar [co-founder of The Taxpayers' Union] decided to resign. 🫢 We would have put his whole resignation rant here but its soooo long and not popcorn worth."

    • tWig 5.1
      16 August 2024 at 10:42 am

      And apologies for bulk posts: my reason is my data for the month for the month is eaten up in the 1st ten days, and I end up at the library for my online fix.

      'I need a reason, girlie, why you have not done the homework, not an excuse!'

      Sister Eulalia in Form 3 (never figured out the difference, frankly). Of course I always did mine. And and learnt how subtle authoritarian bullies and scapegoating works, from the sidelines. Although she was an excellent teacher for the rest of us (made the trains run on time?).

  6. Chris 6
    16 August 2024 at 12:50 pm

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350379192/invoice-arrives-oil-and-gas-ban

    On this effort, if she hasn't already, I'd bet my house that Josie Pagani couldn't pass Logic 101 if she tried.

    • Barfly 6.1
      16 August 2024 at 2:02 pm

      IMO

      Just a paid shill doing their shilling.

      The RW are the proof of 'Reverse Hanlon's Law' – they aren't stupid they're evil.

  7. Alexandra 7
    16 August 2024 at 2:16 pm

    The obvious solution, and to prevent males fighting females in boxing, with all the obvious unfairness and risk to women's safety, is for the IOC to re-introduce sex testing. They should have done this before the Olympics.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Macro 7.1
      17 August 2024 at 1:09 pm

      Even better – let's ban boxing altogether – it's a stupid "sport" where each contestants primary aim is to damage their opponents brain.

  8. Karolyn_IS 8
    16 August 2024 at 3:15 pm

    I have wondered about political polling in NZ generally. But I don't think all political polls are biased.

    I think maybe there have been Curia polls which decidedly skew the question re the environment, etc. as pointed out in one of the links given by Mountain Tui @ 2.45pm.

    I'm not so sure about the comments re the puberty blocker question:

    “The UK health service (the NHS) has stopped the use of puberty blockers, which begin the gender transition process, for children under 16 as it deemed they are too young to consent. Do you support or oppose a similar ban in New Zealand on the use of puberty blockers for young people 16 or younger?”

    The Cass review was a four year in depth, well researched review, which showed that over 90+% of young people do go on to opposite sex hormones, so, in effect it does begin the transition process for a vast amount of those who take puberty blockers.

    Some of the commenters in the Reddit discussion question that PBs irreversibly change a young person. The evidence shows that taking PBs, then going onto opposite sex hormones have some negative impact on lack of bone density that should increase much more via an unblocked puberty. This will have impacts in later life.

    I think Curia's polling may be more questionable on other topics.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • lprent 8.1
      16 August 2024 at 4:58 pm

      … which showed that over 90+% of young people do go on to opposite sex hormones, so, in effect it does begin the transition process for a vast amount of those who take puberty blockers.

      Problem is that you’d have to run a baseline trial to make that statement. None has been run. Probably couldn’t anyway for reasons of ethics.

      Nor is there much (if any) evidence that young people have been coerced at the time of decision into going on puberty blockers in the Cass review. So you can’t run a differential analysis. And in any case I believe that the sample sizes were somewhat minuscule.

      The evidence shows that taking PBs, then going onto opposite sex hormones have some negative impact on lack of bone density that should increase much more via an unblocked puberty. This will have impacts in later life.

      So you mean that it acts exactly like having even a slightly inadequate diet or a mother or maternal grandmother who had a poor diet during pregnancy? I could look up links if you’re actually interested in the number of things that affect growth in puberty. So this is one of many.

      That kind of effect is well documented to occur from multiple environmental causes.

      For instance I have a worn out cartilage pad between my right big toe and the foot. Bone grates on bone while walking and it gets acutely painful. The cause was a cut from broken glass under the foot when I was 15 and running around bare footed on guy fawkes night. The 10 stitches and subsequent healing gave me a right foot half a size up on the left, and a cartilage pad that was less well formed than the equivalent one on the left. It gave me a partial disability 40 years later.

      So what the ‘evidence’ shows once again is that adolescence, like childhood, is a time when small external factors can have large effects downtime from developmental adaptions.

      To count against that, at least in this case the young adults are

      1. making those decisions for themselves rather than by stupid accidents like I did
      2. making informed decisions for themselves about who they want to be, because 90% seems like high majority continue onwards to transitions
      3. don’t seem to really need the advice of busybodies trying to make permanent decisions for them without knowing who theyh actually are – BTW: did Cass actually sit in on any of the interviews? It seems like all that was done was to read existing research.
      4. having PBs to delay puberty makes a subsequent transitioning far harder road, more painful, and a less
      5. these after all are kids making their own decisions about their own lives. Unless there was clear evidence to indicate poor advice or some kind of coercion – then 90% seems to indicate that they and probably their authorising parents (if not busybodies) were

      Basically I think that your commented review was somewhat questionable

      • Karolyn_IS 8.1.1
        16 August 2024 at 5:36 pm

        P71 of the Cass Review: the figure was actually 98% of those recruited for the early intervention study at the UK Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation. It included 44 young people.

        Yes, there are numerous environmental factors that impact negatively on human development. But why would anyone knowingly risk adding further unnecessary negative factors on the development of young people?

        The thing about puberty is that it is one of those periods of development which is time sensitive. This means that if the development doesn't happen at the time set by the biological clock, then the delayed characteristics cannot be fully developed at a later age. Puberty is a time of massive inter-related physical, sexual and neurological changes.

        p32 of the Cass Review refers to a systematic review of multiple studies undertaken by the University of York that shows that,

        bone density is compromised during puberty suppression

        It also showed that puberty suppression showed no improvement in "gender dysphoria or body satisfaction."

        Furthermore there are indications that taking PBs, then going on to opposite sex hormones will negatively impact fertility, development of sexual desire and brain development. Basically Cass concluded from evidence from multiple sources that there was a lack of evidence of benefits of PBs in order to use them except for a small number of young people, who would need to be included in a research project.

        Other research shows that for most young people who are unhappy with their natal sex, their distress and body dissatisfaction is resolved as a result of going through puberty. And most of them will be gay, lesbian or bisexual.That certainly was the pattern for me and many other lesbians I know.

        There is no doubt that many young people are severely distressed by their sexed bodies and need sensitive care. I don't think young people are actively coerced into taking PBs. However, there is a lot of propaganda that gives young people with body distress the idea that transitioning will solve their problems. This can be seen in the testimonies from young people who fully bought into the idea that PBs and/or opposite sex hormones would make everything better, and later came to detransition or regret the lasting physical changes to their bodies. The positive changes they were promised didn't happen.

        • lprent 8.1.1.1
          17 August 2024 at 8:59 am

          The thing about puberty is that it is one of those periods of development which is time sensitive…. then the delayed characteristics cannot be fully developed at a later age.

          Sure, that is exactly why they do the puberty blockers at that point. The kids are often wanting the choice to make a later decision about transitioning when they can make it. In all probability, if they were allowed to then they would make the hormone decisions instead.

          It also showed that puberty suppression showed no improvement in "gender dysphoria or body satisfaction."

          You appear to be mistaking why they are probably taking them. 98% indicates that they probably made their decision earlier than when they were put on the PBs.

          Furthermore there are indications that taking PBs, then going on to opposite sex hormones will negatively impact fertility, development of sexual desire and brain development.

          So what happens if the hormone treatments are done earlier without doing the PBs at all? I'm guessing you know the answer to that.

          Other research shows that for most young people who are unhappy with their natal sex, their distress and body dissatisfaction is resolved as a result of going through puberty. And most of them will be gay, lesbian or bisexual.That certainly was the pattern for me and many other lesbians I know.

          Entirely likely. So is that explained to the young people going on to PBs or early hormone therapies. In particular clearly explained to them by adults who have done the alternate as well as those who transitioned.

          I am guessing that it is not, because inevitably those who wind up as being strongly against something will pillory any sensible approach if it means acceptance that approach may happen. In effect it is the old old question of implicit consent by participation in the process and the classic adult 'we know what is best for you'.

          However, there is a lot of propaganda that gives young people with body distress the idea that transitioning will solve their problems.

          I strongly suspect that the propaganda goes both ways, and that the propaganda is a major part of the problem in putting the relevant and clear information in front of kids.

          Instead there are impediments put in at all stages. About PBs, about hormone treatments, about receiving all 'propaganda', and in particular not having access to people who have gone down several paths to pick their brains.

          Anyone who have been around kids 10+ and especially once the hormones start kicking in is aware of exactly how they react to people getting in their way these days.

          Remember I have been getting all of the excessively bright and massively obstinate family kids now for decades across siblings, cousins, and now the children of the children. They usually get passed somewhere between 11 and 17 when their parents are having real problems dealing with them.

          Mostly all I do is poke holes into their confidence that they know what they are doing. That forces them to find out about the hole so they can say with confidence that I'm wrong. Somehow I never hear if I was right, but generally I try to pick holes where there is no right or wrong – just questions to make a decision on

          At some age kids start listening to adults and then making up their own damn minds. That age appears to be happening earlier because teh supply of information is much more accessible. Generally the better you give them information and choices and the motivation to extract it, the happier they are likely to be longer term. What usually causes problems is a lack of clear information and/or them perceiving that some arsehole is responsible for getting in their way.

          The positive changes they were promised didn't happen.

          Sure, and people regret getting tattoos, piercings, and foot damage as well. They regret going into the army, the educational choices, their choices of partners, etc etc. That is life.

          Shit happens and trying to make people happy is about decisions they make is usually about making sure that they are the ones making the decision. Decision regret is then based on their choices. Makes it a whole lot easier to deal with when it was their choice.

          It is noticeable that there are few studies, even with small samples, that look at transition regret. In effect that is an anecdotal statement because for any decision there will be some that regret taking it but is that 5% or 50%? makes a hell of difference.

          In this case finding out why they feel regret, ie like 'promises' or 'lack of information', is actually what you'd need to find out to be able to refine the success rate.

          My impression that the absolutist dipshits who are more interested in being right are the real problem about just about everything about getting a successful transition/non-transition decision process.

          Mostly I see that absolutist mental framework on 'gender-critical' side. It is pretty obvious when you talk to people across divides like I do. What I look for mostly is who is being obdurate about the inevitable. In my case it is a lot about IT technology, but the same applies to all technologies.

          The obdurate simply haven't accepted that a given technology is there and that it will be used one way or another. So they usually wind up still trying to push a cork in a dike rather than a switching pipe with decisions being made those who will have to wear them along multiple paths and probably better outcomes.

          Instead you get a lot of misinformation without credible links, speculation without evidence, claiming organisations 'shoulda' rather than looking at what organisation rules actually are and why, and general lack of looking at alternatives. On the way through they usually do a great deal of harm, and usually because they get in the way of the productive process of caution, research and regulation.

          Doesn't matter if it is the likes of SPUC, railing against generative AI as it it was actual AI, 'the internet', 'gender-critical' or any number of other issues in my opinion.

          They all share the same characteristics in that they raise alarm and make the poorer decision making inevitable.

          • lprent 8.1.1.1.1
            17 August 2024 at 11:41 am

            This was inevitable.

            ‘I’ve had to become my own doctor’: trans young people on life after the Cass review

            He obtained hormones privately online at 14 with the support of his parents. He has now been on puberty blockers, bought from abroad, for four years and, through his GP, has been taking the masculinising hormone testosterone for three years.

            “The whole point of blockers is to be a compromise, so that you don’t have to go through permanent change before you fully know what you want. It’s a scary thing to think about at 11,” he said.

            “If I’d had access to blockers at that age, it would have given me time to engage with therapy – no amount of psychological intervention is going to help when you’ve got that huge terror about your body changing. Had I been cis, that would have given me time to figure it out.”

            and on the other side

            “I looked into private healthcare but the money involved meant it just wasn’t possible,” she said. Even before the puberty blockers ban, “nobody was getting healthcare anyway”, she added. “I know one of two people out of a large group of friends who have actually made it off the NHS waiting list, and by then they were way past the need for puberty blockers.”

            I doubt that it will stop with the current generation of teens

            In the meantime, the waiting list for children’s gender care is growing. According to NHS England’s own figures, more than 5,700 under-18s are waiting an average of 100 weeks for a first appointment in England and Wales.
            …

            Despite her reservations, Coven has been taking non-prescription hormone replacement therapy for two years. “I’ve had to become my own doctor, do all my own research, spend so much time analysing blood tests on my own. Don’t I deserve someone to oversee my care?” she said.

            Remove the half-way house of puberty blockers and the likelihood of black market goes up exponentially.

            Some go on to get hormone therapy, probably moving to a black-market.

            Many give up on a health case system and just move everything underground because 100 weeks is kind of long. That is before looking at the times for a second appointment

            Probability of reduced number of people transitioning not high, and probably swamped by increased demand. I guess the drug cartels have a new set of products.

            Someone should probably do a study – the Cass suicide list looking at the waiting list.

  9. Anne 9
    16 August 2024 at 3:34 pm

    Setting aside the context around his statement, where the hell does Luxon get these idiot expressions of his from? “force multiplier”. Sounds like something out of Star Wars.

    Luxon reiterated his desire to see New Zealand become a “force multiplier” in the Pacific by joining Australia’s defence posture, and spoke about the potential of New Zealand joining pillar two the Aukus military alliance.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350381314/our-ties-are-older-our-democracies-christopher-luxon-and-anthony-albanese-praise

  10. Cricklewood 10
    16 August 2024 at 3:53 pm

    According to Farrah at least the question at issue is this

    "The UK health service (the NHS) has stopped the use of puberty blockers, which begin the gender transition process, for children under 16 as it deemed they are too young to consent. Do you support or oppose a similar ban in New Zealand on the use of puberty blockers for young people 16 or younger"

    Seems the sex / gender debate is problematic for everyone.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  11. Karolyn_IS 11
    16 August 2024 at 4:40 pm

    I guess it's not totally correct to say the NHS has stopped the use of PBs in the long run. The Cass Review, on which the NHS decision was made, recommended that PBs may be helpful to a small number of young people, but that should only be done as part of a research project. This is because in p32 of the Cass Review,

    84: The [Cass] Review’s letter to NHS England (July 2023) advised that because puberty blockers only have clearly defined benefits in quite narrow circumstances, and because of the potential risks to neurocognitive development, psychosexual development and longer-term bone health, they should only be offered under a research protocol. This has been taken forward by NHS England and National Institute for Health and Care Research (NIHR).

    I should imagine the research protocol has not yet been fully developed. The current UK Labour govt has accepted the Cass recommendations.

    There must surely be more evidence against Curia than this one poll?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  12. aj 12
    16 August 2024 at 5:05 pm

    where the hell does Luxon get these idiot expressions of his from? “force multiplier”

    It has become a common expression amongst AUKUS supporters in recent times. For example David Sanger, NY Times National Security Correspondent who quelle surprise echoes current US State Dept and Biden policies and uses it during this interview with Paddy Gower on RNZ on Thursday.

    He also echoes the lack of morality of the US position in the Middle East, when he calls current events a 'distraction' from the more pressing need to keep preparing for the coming wars with China.

    Luxon is working hard kneeling down with butt in the air to line New Zealanders up with the people who are facilitating a genocide in the Middle East. Never forget that.

    Biden and Netanyahu are showing what the rules-based international order really is: not a world of liberty under law, but a mass grave.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018951275/new-york-times-national-security-correspondent-david-sanger

  13. Incognito 13
    16 August 2024 at 6:33 pm

    I really don’t want to wade into this, but …

    People seem to jump on whatever aligns best with their own bias and prejudice.

    The so-called Cass Review is waved around by some as the New Gospel and some kind of definitive answer to a highly controversial and sensitive area, which is of course ludicrous and flies against critical thinking and principles of science.

    Nearly 900 doctors sign letter urging BMA to abandon inquiry into Cass review

    BMJ 2024; 386 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.q1772 (Published 08 August 2024)

    “The idea that any review, even on such a sensitive topic, should not be critiqued, is, I believe, contrary to the very principles” of the scientific process, said Banfield [Philip Banfield, the BMA’s chair of council] in a two page reply.

    • Karolyn_IS 13.1
      16 August 2024 at 7:25 pm

      Of course it should be open to critique. But there's a substantial amount of important info in it. Basically, ATM, use of puberty blockers shows little gain from using them. There's no evidence they work for most young people. Other research shows distress with the sexed body is resolved for most young people by going through unblocked puberty.

      Recent use of PBs amounts to experimenting on minors. I think the way forward is as Cass outlines: prescribe PBs for a small number of people who should be part of a research protocol.

      There are plenty of medical people who have concerns about PBs. Cass is the best we've got so far. Some northern European countries are also pulling back on the use of PBs because of the lack of evidence they have of any benefits, the potential downsides, and no evidence of which distressed young people will benefit from them and which ones will go on to regret the negative impact.

      • Incognito 13.1.1
        17 August 2024 at 11:54 am

        Cass is the best we’ve got so far.

        This is my point, you (and others) have elevated it to a higher bar than is justifiable.

        It doesn’t actually provide new data, the available data and evidence are, by the very nature of the topical issue, relatively weak, and it has already come under scrutiny for serious methodological flaws and unsupported claims. This is just the Cass Review itself and not even about what others such as NHS have done subsequently supposedly all based on its findings and recommendations.

        As a thought exercise, imagine that Health NZ commissioned a Review such as the Cass Review, i.e., on a very controversial and sensitive area, and then accepts its findings & recommendations, would you give it the same lauding verdict as the Cass Review?

    • TeWhareWhero 13.2
      16 August 2024 at 9:40 pm

      Several decades ago, I was drawn into researching endocrine disruption in horses because I was seeing such things as mares with the equine equivalent of PCOS; generalised obesity and patterns of grossly abnormal adipose tissue; hind gut disorders leading to catastrophic tissue failure in the hooves; unusual neurological conditions….

      There were lots of explanations about why, all of them pretty much missing the tap-dancing elephants in the corner of the room which included the ubiquity of endocrine disrupting and DNA damaging chemicals in the environment.

      I'm now notorious for banging on endlessly about what I regard as the fourth horseman of the apocalypse, chemical pollution.

      There's a medical adage an old vet I knew used to say all the time, “maximum dilution is the best solution.” Less often is more, and never more so than in the chemicals we ingest, inhale, and absorb though our largest metabolic organ, our skin.

      It is now known that there are at least 350,000 chemicals and mixes of chemicals globally for commercial production and use. Many of these are not properly registered or regulated. (Environmental Science & Technology 2020) Americans are said to be exposed to a range of 80,000 or so in their environment. We may not be far off that.

      The effects of any one on any given organism at any given stage in its development are impossible to predict; the effects of them in combination across populations are, to quote myself, "a nightmarish unknown".

      Given the impossibility of avoiding exposure to many of these chemicals in day to day life, it makes sense to avoid any and all over which we have some control.

      These days there is a critical mass of data about these EDCs – some of which fall into the category of “forever chemicals” because of the time they persist in the environment – so the issue is becoming more mainstream, but given the immensity of the threat they pose to all life, not nearly enough attention is being paid.

      The vast petro-chemical industry responsible for their manufacture, and the various industries which use them, won't suddenly grow a conscience and say "mea culpa" and clean up their stinking mess, so it's up to us to keep shining a light on it, and keep demanding answers and action.

      Given we know chemicals can do unanticipated things in combination, when I see people hand-waving the use of GnRH agonists in kids, I get a bit edgy.

      This class of drug was developed for the treatment of reproductive cancers and used off-label to chemically castrate some compulsive sex offenders. With what appears to be an increase in central precocious puberty (CPP) they were used to delay sexual maturation until a more usual age, when the child comes off the drug and resumes normal puberty.

      The use of them to delay puberty in gender dysphoric children until the point where they can legally consent to undergo medical transition (or not), raises a host of questions, the most pressing of which is what long term health effects there are in not just a delayed puberty, but the subsequent forcing of a counter puberty with a titration of synthetic hormones, followed by complex surgeries, all involving anaesthesia and analgesia, possibly antibiotics etc, and followed by a life time of synthetic hormones, and medical surveillance.

      All in a chemical soup.

      If a surgical &/or pharmacological procedure is needed to reduce suffering and/or save life, the price of possible adverse outcomes is obviously worth paying but I see far too many people who haven't a real clue about any of the science or the ethics, sounding off about it.

      "They oppose it, so I must support it" is not a basis for ethical judgements about children's health and well being. We owe it to kids to not allow their health to become a political football.

      I will leave you with this:

      There is a global increase in childhood cancers, and in developmental and reproductive disorders.

      Clinical obesity was once uncommon in young people, it is now commonplace, especially among the poor.

      Type 2 diabetes was rare in adults and unknown in children; it is now appearing frequently in kids.

      The range of triggers and incidence of life-threatening allergies has increased, as have rates of autism.

      Kids are entering puberty younger, and the incidence of CPP is increasing.

      That’s not an exhaustive list. ALL involve little victims and all are massive warning signals.

  14. Descendant Of Smith 14
    17 August 2024 at 6:01 am

    Kids are entering puberty younger.

    I thought this had long been linked to increased light exposure since the industrial revolution and electricity.