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Open Mike 18/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 18th, 2017 - 101 comments
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101 comments on “Open Mike 18/12/2017”

  1. eco maori 1

    It’s good to see eco influence is working for a more humane and equal society Ka pai. I see some reporters trying to get a sly dig at Winston Peters Mana we no it won’t work. That’s what happens when you go around trying to control everything and think you can piss on anyone mother nature just blows it IN YOUR FACE and you reap the consequences warming the opposition benches for Ever Ana to kai.
    I wonder what dum ass plans these people have for me today probably invading a lot of people privacy and stressing them out mean while eco is laughing at them I had decided it does not look good to the mokos when ECO uses sign language so I will not let them influence my behaviour as I control my own destiny and I have a very bright future ahead of me. Kia kaha

  2. eco maori 2

    I have taken the ECO MAORI sign off my truck they are not needed now everywhere I go the people recognise ECO Maori. Kia kaha

    • eco maori 2.1

      The usual dum ass tactics one behind me and one car driving slowly to try and make me speed or break the road rules Ana to kai

      • ropata 2.1.1

        Drive safe Mātua

      • eco maori 2.1.2

        These dicks heads are trying to make out Iv got a mental problem. The only people with a mental problem is these neo liberals that think it’s OK to use the whole system to try and suppress me and justify it with a smear campaign against ECO Maori They are just like there national masters Ana to kai

  3. James 3


    Sub-optimal or untended consequences – but hey that’s only treasury’s view.

    Will be interesting to see what happens.

    • Ed 3.1

      Back to your daily smart comment, I see.

      • cleangreen 3.1.1

        Yes James as a real joker isn’t he.

        His role is simply to divert us from our role to advise the new government as to what we see as the best way forward.

        Simply responding to a dead headed “hollow man” is simply a waste of our time,- he should be ignored as he does not contribute any single point of any value to the country or our ‘wellbeing’.

        Just a clown.

    • Muttonbird 3.2

      Care to list the unintended consequences?

      I read that article, twice in fact, and couldn’t see any reference to unintended consequences. There was a lot of guff about the implementation an operational procedures but that’s it.

      If you’re referring to the ban to having much of an effect right now then that has been discussed at length, David Parker saying that this policy is required in readiness for the next wave of corrupt and/or cheap capital flooding in from overseas distorting our housing market.

    • Ad 3.3

      Does anyone give a flying fuck that there’s not enough time to educate real estate agents?

      They have had it as good as it as it’s ever been, all the way to the bank.
      No one needs to educate them that the party’s over.

    • That would be Treasury’s ideology trumping the evidence.

      • OnceWasTim 3.4.1

        Somebody should ask them how their ‘fundamentals’ are ‘on the back of’ the change in government. Or maybe they’d just refer the question to Craigs Investment Partners (going forward)

    • North 3.5

      How was the big kick-ass BBQ James ?

      • Nick 3.5.1

        I think he said it was going to be full of porkies.

        • James

          And cows. Don’t forget the cow.

          • Ed

            That you murdered.

            • McFlock

              Of course, you’re stuffed if turnips turn out to be sentient.

              • Ed

                Have you researched this topic or are you part of the smart arsed group who has opinion and NO knowledge?

                Here is some learning for you.

                The China Study

                Health issues and eating meat

                Enivonmental issues related to eating meat

                Animal cruelty issues

                • McFlock

                  What have health consequences got to do with whether killing a cow is murder?

                  But plants might be sentient. The first form of thoroughly alien life we make contact with might be the humble garden brassica..

                  • Ed

                    Read the China Study.

                    • McFlock

                      Dude, I drink, don’t exercise, and the only thing stopping me from smoking is the money. Nutritional advice is not going to get me to eat fucking tofu, lentils, or chickpeas.

                      And again, if you think animals are being murdered, why do you think that plants aren’t?

                    • Ed

                      Have you considered or researched the environmental impact of near eating?
                      Have you investigated the issue of the torture and cruel killing of animals?

                      Have you watched Earthlings?

                      Have you been to restaurants with good vegan dishes?
                      Do you own a vegan cookbook?

                    • McFlock

                      Yes, but I really like steak.
                      No, that’s uip to the SPCA and various regulatory bodies.
                      One or two in particular.
                      Yes, they served salad.
                      Why the fuck would I. If I do, it would have been a joke xmas gift from some wag.

                      Are you avoiding the question because it’s too difficult?

                    • Why the fuck would I.

                      Because vegetarian meals are actually very nice.

                      You don’t have to be vegetarian to enjoy them.

                    • McFlock

                      I have actually had vegetarian, even vegan, meals. Frankly, they’ve been very hit and miss, even when prepared by people who swear that vegetarian food is perfectly fine. They usually miss a dimension of texture and flavour, especially vegan food. Sure, I might have a day or several without meat, but it always calls me back.

                      Besides, if I want to go all out and prepare a meal from a recipe, it’ll be a fucking awesome meal. That usually involves some manner of animal.

            • James

              Had murdered. I don’t know how to butcher a cow.

              I’ve personally murdered sheep however for spits.

              • McFlock

                If it was an older sheep, it would be for spits and gristles…

              • Ed

                And you brag about it.

                • James

                  I have no issue admitting I’ve killed a few sheep. It’s not bragging – it’s pretty normal in a lot of NZ.

                  I’ve also killed 00’s of fish – I guess you arnt happy with that either.

                  Oh and I ran over a opposum over the weekend – but I didn’t eat that.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              What about the bacteria that died when you stopped eating cheese? Will you judge the worms that eat you too?

              There are plenty of good reasons to eat well, and none of them involve judging other people.

              • Ed

                Have you watched Earthlings?
                I suggest you do before forming such strong opinions.

                Reasons for eating well don’t include I like meat.
                Otherwise, why don’t you eat dogs or cats?

                ‘Eating well’ – does that mean eating something that is a known carcinogen, pumped full of antibiotics, that significantly increases your chances of heart disease?

                Are you aware of the main issues here or are you going to continually revert to nonsensical points?

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Prior to your substantial edit: Every day of my life.

                  What “strong opinions”? I am wary of judgement in this context because killing and eating something is nothing if not a judgement. Whatever I eat, something dies. I’m not about to judge anyone else’s choices.

                  I recommend you read the Tao te Ching, and pick a few different translations too. I’m familiar with the concepts in Earthlings.

                • McFlock

                  Reasons for eating well don’t include I like meat.
                  Otherwise, why don’t you eat dogs or cats?

                  Actually, liking something is a reason for doing it. It’s actually the primary reason for doing most things.

                  As for dogs and cats, always been vaguely curious. Our culture’s prediliction for anthropomorphic projection tends to keep them off the shelves, though.

      • James 3.5.2

        Was a great day thanks North. Family and friends had a great time.

    • DH 3.6

      So the unintended consequences are from ‘implementation risks’, which boil down to possible delays in the processing of OIO requests. That’s a real economy killer, they need to halt immediately!

      They’re clutching at straws there, Herald bosses must be getting worried about the loss of real estate advertising revenue.

      • Muttonbird 3.6.1

        I had another RWNJ on another forum explain to me Treasury can’t list the actual unintended consequences because they won’t have time. So it seems Treasury is just indulging in a bit of maybe this, maybe that.

      • RedBaronCV 3.6.2

        The main one I can think of is:

        I buy an house in an established suburb- knock the house down – and hey presto-land I can sell to the next overseas buyer.

        It needs to be land that does not have nor has had in the last 80 years a dwelling on it- or bare land that has been subdivided in the last XX years within an urban boundary ( or some similar measure.)
        Also permanent residents that get OIA approval should have to remain resident here for 183/365 days or have to on sell the property within X number of years.

        And current overseas owners of such property have X number of years to dispose of the property (or meet the local tests).

        • Muttonbird

          While Treasury itself wasn’t clear at all on this I think what they, being the Nats and their soul-less supporters are getting at is some parts of the CTPTPP might be slightly more difficult for exporters in the final wash up.

          I don’t think the foreign buyer screening/ban will make much difference to tariff negotiations on this deal and in fact this deal is moving all over the place anyway and may not come about at all.

          Even if our new stance on protecting NZ residential property from surging corrupt and/or cheap capital from overseas did result in small percentage reductions in tariff relief for exporters I think it’s a price well worth paying in the long run.

    • tracey 3.8

      “”I’m telling you it’s a load of nonsense, because they can’t get predictions in 44 days right, let alone in 44 years.” John Key on Treasury

      Who did you believe then James, Key or Treasury?

  4. Ed 4

    2 more consequences of neoliberalism.

    #1 The commercialisation of childhood.

    ‘Childcare workers speak out against ‘factory farming’ of children.’

    ‘More than a quarter of childcare centre workers say they would not place their own children in the centres they work in, with some calling them “akin to factory farming of children”.

    A new survey of 900 early childhood teachers by the lobby group Child Forum shows 27 per cent would not enrol their own children at the service they work in.’


    #2 Drug abuse

    ‘Binge drinking still a ‘significant burden’ on strained EDs’

    ‘A survey by the Australasian College of Emergency Medicine (ACEM) surveyed 117 EDs across Australia and New Zealand, asking how many patients were there because of alcohol.

    Across the 17 New Zealand EDs this year’s survey, found about one in eight patients were there because of alcohol’


    • dv 4.1

      RE Drink and EDS

      Allow CHARGing the cost of treatment and administration back to the alcohol industry.

    • Alcohol consumption has fallen significantly since neoliberalism was introduced 30 years ago. Unlike you, I’m not going to turn those unrelated facts into a correlation=causation error.

      • Ed 4.2.1

        I referred to drug abuse.
        Alcohol is but 1 drug in New Zealand.
        Overall drug use ( including alcohol) is way up on the 1970s.

      • greywarshark 4.2.2

        If you have the link to that I’d like it. It is counterfactual to me so I’m really confused. Surely it would be up with supermarkets having it, dairies having it? Perhaps everyone has gone to coffee instead, the bar they go to is the barista?

    • And the growth in numbers of children in professional childcare isn’t a feature of neo-liberalism, it’s the opposite. The poor quality of some private-sector childcare facilities is a feature of capitalism, not neo-liberalism.

  5. Anne 5

    It’s this type of reporting and headline which rankles with me.

    Meuller unlawfully obtained emails…

    Its crap! He did nothing of the sort. The emails were “lawfully” passed on to him by the GSA.
    While they mention the Trump transition team have made the claim, the inference is: that it’s true.

    • tc 5.1

      Granny repeating the spin and not doing any fact checking…..this media games a doddle with all these repeaters around smearing on behalf of the originators of the BS.

  6. Molly 6

    Looking to update our home library over Christmas. Does anyone have any suggestions for good additions re: NZ history?

    • Kay 6.1

      No home should be without a copy of the Late great Michael King’s ‘History of NZ”
      so if you don’t already have it, then a compulsory acquisition! A great loss to NZ as an historian; this was the very readable and engaging book that finally taught me what our education system never bothered with or glossed over/sanitised.

      Happy book updating 🙂

      • tc 6.1.1

        +1 very easy reading and always sad when creatives pass on with creativity left within them.

        An eye opener for some and I’d agree with kay regards it’s compulsory nature as it’s essential reading IMO.

      • gsays 6.1.2

        Well said, Anne.
        I have read it twice and anticipate doing so again.

        I enjoyed biography of Fintan Patrick Walsh (black prince by
        Graeme hunt), and John A. Lee autobiography
        Also the sugarbag years by Tony Simpson.

    • Matiri 6.2

      Into the Wider World by Brian Turner – a collection of new and old writing about our wild places and what we are losing. Modern conservation history!

      I was also going to say Michael King’s History of New Zealand but Kay beat me to it.

    • North 6.3

      The Jack Lee books on the Hokianga and the Bay of Islands. Fascinating especially for one living in the mid-North amongst descendants of those figuring in the histories.



      • AB 6.3.1

        And complement these with Kendrick Smityhman’s astonishing and beautifully opaque epic of 296 poems, ‘Atua Wera’.
        Heaven would be sitting in the Boatshed café in Rawene (before the sun gets too high and hot) reading Smithyman:
        “Travellers wheeling down from the Forest
        into Waimamaku’s valley floor may
        overtake him….
        He is least
        expected as darkness sets in
        Along the shortcut between Waiotemarama and Pakanae…”

    • Ed 6.4

      Chris Trotter No Left Turn

    • JanM 6.5

      Yes – Gavin Bishop’s Aotearoa – it’s a beautifully illustrated NZ history book for children (from around about 10-12 I would say) – an absolute treasure

    • JanM 6.6

      Oh, and ‘Tu’ and ‘Ned and Katina’ by Patricia Grace.

    • JanM 6.7

      And Pakeha Maori by Bruce Bentley

    • Janice 6.8

      Ask that Mountain by Dick Scott. I got really angry when I read this as I had grown up in Taranaki and never was told/taught a thing about Parihaka. I agree about the Patricia Grace ones.

    • RedBaronCV 6.9

      letters from the bay of Islands – Marianne Williams – letters from an early missionarie’s wife to her relatives

    • Molly 6.10

      Thanks to everyone who kindly offered book titles and authors.

      Already had a few, but will look into the rest. A couple of reminders of books that were already on my list – but not previously on my budget. Will enjoy either buying or borrowing some of these recommendations.

      Ngaa mihi.

      • greywarshark 6.10.1

        I think that Bruce Jesson and Bill Sutch have been very important warriors for NZ and have a number of publications, and there is Man Alone by John Mulgan, The Making of a New Zealander by Alan Mulgan, and Jock Phillips A Mans Country which reading today might give us a line on today’s defective thinking.

        And Lady Barker about her time in NZ, and Guide Maggie Papakura who left NZ, married in England, and ended up dying there. Ettie Rout, and Maire Leadbetter, Florence Harsant ‘They called me Te Maari’. The story around losing the Huia and Buller’s role in this, and about saving the kakapo and one being called Richard Henry.

  7. red-blooded 7

    The Spinoff have a great article on the history of collusion between the Nats and the Aussie Liberals at present. There’s a big focus on the role of Crosby-Textor and the stinging final line, “National and the Liberals may be outraged now that Labour is allegedly interfering in Australian politics, but as the last two decades have shown, they’ve never had a problem with it before – as long as that meddling is limited to here, and for National’s benefit.

    • Carolyn_nth 7.1

      Thanks for the tip.

      You’ve linked to a different article at Spinoff.

      Should be this link.

      • red-blooded 7.1.1

        Well, how the hell did that happen? I guess I didn’t copy the address and already had one preloaded. Thanks for the correction.

    • tracey 7.2

      “…Brash and Steven Joyce, the party’s campaign manager at the time, understandably lied to the press about the extent of the strategists’ involvement in their campaign at the time. Still, rumours persisted, partly because of National’s particularly racially tinged campaign that year, and would not be confirmed until the release of Hager’s book a year later.”

      “In 2007, it came out that National had put nearly $90,000 of taxpayer money toward a Liberal Party-controlled company, Parakeelia Pty, for the use of software that tracked voters’ views for electoral campaigns. The company’s director? Lynton Crosby.

      “the party confirmed to Newshub they were using its services again in 2017. The news was little surprise to media commentators who noted that Joyce’s now infamous $11.7 billion hole claim was a vintage Crosby Textor tactic. “

  8. adam 8

    How low can you go. 2.35 min vid

    • Grey Area 8.1

      Thanks Adam.

      It led me to this other RT clip: Money as debt – my description

      Which supports what Greywarshark has said a number of times (if I understand it correctly) – that sovereign states like us (kind of) can create money as we need it. But instead we borrow it to make a small, select number of people much richer.

  9. Morrissey 9

    Liars of Our Time

    Weedy little Hollywood nerd James Cameron reckons he stood up to Harvey Weinstein in 1998….

    “I remember almost getting in a fight with Harvey Weinstein and hitting him with my Oscar,” he said.

    Note the crucial qualifier: “almost”.

    Last week we were subjected to the pathetic spectacle of “Sir” Peter Jackson confessing that he had obeyed Harvey Weinstein’s diktats and not hired women that Weinstein was persecuting.

    Now we have another of Weinstein’s former minions talking tough. James Cameron went along unquestioningly with the Hollywood persecution of Kim Dotcom, in which Weinstein was one of the louder and more obnoxious key figures. Whenever he got a chance, Cameron automatically parroted the talking points of his Hollywood paymasters and the Obama administration. He was, and is, the very model of the pliable and unquestioning creature that thrives in corrupt and oppressive hierarchies like the film business.

    A tough or independent guy he is not. But now, after Weinstein’s disgrace, Cameron asserts that he “almost” got into a fight with the infamous producer/would-be seducer in 1998.

    As a real Hollywood tough guy, Marion Morrison, would have said if he’d lived to hear Cameron’s big talk: “That’ll be the day.”

    More Liars….

    Open mike 28/11/2015

  10. Herodotus 10

    What is happening ??
    After trying to refuel in Ellerslie today and finding that the local station is out of all fuel,
    this last week
    Are we still a leading 1st world country ?
    Little 1st world problems like this (water quality etc), just reinforce how close we travel to the edge.

    • Grey Area 10.1

      Are we still a leading 1st world country ?

      After nine years of the Nasty Party, No.

    • Ed 10.2

      Of more concern are our stats on inequality, poverty, imprisonment , drug use, …..


      • Herodotus 10.2.1

        It is not until we are personally affected will we take notice 🙁 !!!
        Be it the school our children attend are having teacher shortages, we cannot be given adequate medical attention e.g. waiting lists, National are voted out (Mike H misses out on important govt invitations !!!)
        If you tolerate this …

    • The Fairy Godmother 10.3

      Pipeline problems I believe. They are trucking it from Marsden pt. I think it was something to do with a digger digging for Kauri gum.

    • Firepig 10.4

      Nip over to Gull in Ti Rakau Drive – I had no problem filling at the self-service station this afternoon.

    • What is happening ??
      After trying to refuel in Ellerslie today and finding that the local station is out of all fuel, this last week

      That just seems to be the continuing infrastructure breakdown caused by digger.

      Are we still a leading 1st world country ?

      Nope. We’ve pretty much been going backwards ever since Roger Douglass promised that, after a little bit of pain, we’d all be rich.

      Well, 30 years later and the pain is still there for most of us. It’s got worse for many but a few are doing really well – they just so happen to be the reason why the rest of us are worse off.

  11. Ad 11

    Pessimists guide to 2018, from the Bloomberg analysts, done as a series of provocations:


    I wanted it darker.

  12. Morrissey 12

    “What’s brought the PRINCE and the PRESIDENT together?”
    Body counts? Obama wins that. Cocaine snorted, on the other hand….

    Monday 18 December 2017, 5:31 p.m.

    Teaser for tonight’s main news bulletin on TVNZ 1. Barack Obama and Prince “Shepherd Killer” Harry are seated at a table. Both of them are smiling. After three or four seconds, a beaming Thunderbird puppet appears on screen and enthuses…

    SIMON DALLOW: What’s brought the PRINCE and the PRESIDENT together? See you soon at six!

    Desperate for more Dallow?…

    Open mike 30/11/2015

    Open Mike 16/02/2016

    Open mike 16/11/2015

    Open mike 15/10/2015

  13. Muttonbird 13

    See what happens when you fight back?


    JA has more balls than Key and Bingles put together.

  14. Ed 14

    More great news.

    ‘Parliament’s cleaners to get living wage

    All cleaners and caterers at Parliament will be paid the living wage by 2020.

    Speaker Trevor Mallard with parliamentary cleaner Eseta AilaoaSpeaker Trevor Mallard with parliamentary cleaner Eseta Ailaoa Photo: RNZ / Benedict Collins
    Parliament’s Speaker, Trevor Mallard, announced the initiative today.

    Mr Mallard said the cleaning and catering contracts at Parliament came up for renegotiation shortly after the new government was elected, and that allowed the living wage to be introduced.

    While that would be a significant payrise for some workers, it still would not be a comfortable wage, he said.

    The wage rise will come in for caterers from 1 July 2019, while cleaners will be on the living wage by the end of 2019.’


  15. Ed 15

    Sad news.

    Auckland City Mission’s Christmas Appeal needs donations as numbers surge.

    ‘Women are the face of poverty – and this becomes all too apparent in the line for food parcels and gifts outside Auckland City Mission.
    The charity has had overwhelming numbers of people seeking emergency help this Christmas with hundreds lining the streets – some since midnight – as the festive season draws near and puts pressure on those who can barely put food on the table.
    City Missioner Chris Farrelly estimated that by the end of this week they would have assisted 4000 people – and 80 per cent or 3200 of those would be women.
    “Women carry the burden of poverty in New Zealand, disproportionately to anyone else. They make huge sacrifices for children.
    “Many of the people who have come to the City Mission this Christmas are women bringing up their children, and other people’s children, on their own.”


    Still nothing to worry about for some.
    James and his friends pigged themselves on a huge cow at a bbq yesterday. He’s alright and so are his friends and he likes to brag about his gluttony and wealth.

    • Sabine 15.1

      some eat meat, others don’t. Do not use women to personally attack someone for his/her food choices. Humans luckily are omnivores and not everyone can subsist on a diet made only of vegetables.

      also, don’t make me defend james again.

      and yes, women have been the poorest together with their children in any society, and any society has no issues with it. See NZ and its treatment of women who depend on Winz, or women who earn less then their male counterparts, or women who have to stop working for child care, elder care, sick care, and who are thus deprived of savings opportunities (Kiwi Saver comes to mind), career opportunities etc. Society to a large part depends on the unpaid, undervalued work women provide.
      What else is new?

  16. Macro 16

    Food Banks have been under pressure all year – and the demand is now reaching a peak, as it always does at this time of year. However this year we expect there to be even more demand than ever before. There have been a number of job losses in our town and it’s not going to be a good Christmas for many. There has been a good response for donations from the library (pay fines in food) – the supermarket – the churches – and the public. But things shouldn’t be like this.
    One of our main businesses in the town hosts a Xmas Dinner for all who wish to partake – “A Place at the Table” around 200 people attend each year.

  17. Someone should point out to Elon Musk that this is communism:

    “Anyone at Tesla can and should email/talk to anyone else according to what they think is the fastest way to solve a problem for the benefit of the whole company. You can talk to your manager’s manager without his permission, you can talk directly to a VP in another dept., you can talk to me, you can talk to anyone without anyone else’s permission. Moreover, you should consider yourself obligated to do so until the right thing happens.

  18. joe90 18

    Imagine that…..

    The Trump transition team's lawyer, Kory Langhofer, told me tonight that he still hasn't confronted Mueller or the GSA directly about their alleged missteps, which he outlined to Congress in a letter that was then leaked to Fox. https://t.co/JEo146NPjV— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) December 17, 2017

  19. eco maori 19

    We there you go they have no morels I was advised by the health helpline to go to the hospital I was there for 3 hours and got 2 panadol I informed them that I had to leave at 11.10 pm no doctor so I just walked out of the hospital at 11.10 pm ECO knows when he is being played the cops have been trying to antagonise all the time. They think I’m stupid there problem is they think I have the same dum ass though process as themselves but sorry ECOs thought process is far superior and humane and they don’t get it Ana to kai

  20. Ad 20

    To get this one, you have to be reasonably up on Game of Thrones, libertarian theory, and US federal politics:

  21. eco maori 21

    The Rotorua hospital was not packed out and I no the cops got the staff to stall to try and antagonise me the idiots are just like dick smith national mp from Nelson no respect kai kaha

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