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Open mike 19/03/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 19th, 2019 - 174 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

174 comments on “Open mike 19/03/2019 ”

  1. WeekendWarrior 1

    Currently hiking the countryside in Wales, and can I just say how proud I am to be a Kiwi. I have had a few days to reflect on the tragic events back home. The way that New Zealanders have responded to the tragic events on Friday has been incredible. We have news stories of farmers handing in their guns, we appear to have cross party support for swift changes to gun laws, and above all else people of all races/religions have come together to support the Muslim community in NZ in their darkest hour. You only need to compare this response to the way in which the USA responds to gun crime, to appreciate how great a country we live in.
    We were in a pub on Saturday watching the game between Wales and Ireland, there was a minute of silence for the Muslim community in Christchurch, and I can tell you that you could have heard a pin drop in the bar – something I will never forget.

  2. dv 2

    Christchurch mosque shootings: Website Kiwi Farms refuses to surrender data linked to accused Brenton Tarrant


    In an obscenity-laden email, Kiwi Farms founder Joshua Moon dismissed the plea by Detective Senior Sergeant John Michael as “a joke” – labelling New Zealand “a small, irrelevant island nation” and “s***hole country”.

    Why can’t we as 5 eyes to get the info from th bus based site?

    • dv 2.1

      the us based!!!

      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        I think that the NZ government should issue a statement that this website has no connection with the government or general public of NZ, as we are virtually implicated in that name Kiwi Farms. Who are these awful people?

        And that reminds me of how stupid and naive and unbusinesslike our leaders have always been. Government and business. They should decades ago, even a century ago, have bought back the name Kiwi once they realised it was a national identifier used for Kiwi shoe polish. Then it belongs to the country not to every geltmeister that wants to use it for their own scummy purposes.

    • dv 2.2

      Trump has tweeted that
      The U.S. stands by New Zealand for anything we can do.

      So we should call Trump to get the info the police want from Kiwi Farms web sit

    • WeTheBleeple 2.3

      Yes. Where is the value of five eyes if it can’t coerce data from an obvious cauldron of repressed incestual desire.

      • Sacha 2.3.1

        Our spy agencies will already have all the data. Knowing what to do with it is a different matter.

    • 5 Eyes will have all the Information don’t you worry about that.

      The Intelligence Services have to go through a procedure to recover the Information.

    • Gabby 2.5

      If the yankers can grab the Huawei lady can we have Moonboy? Bet not.

  3. marty mars 3

    Great article from a great citizen – Dame Anne Salmond

    “After this terrible tragedy, let’s be honest, for once. White supremacy is a part of us, a dark power in the land. In its soft version, it looks bland and reasonable.

    Eminent New Zealanders assure their fellows that Māori were “lucky” to be colonised by Europeans, that te reo Māori is worthless, that tikanga Māori have nothing to teach us.

    Others simply assume ancestral legacies from Europe are superior to those from the Pacific — in the law, science, social and cultural life….”


    Sadly there is a disconnect in these people and they can’t even see the link. That disconnect is a danger to our society imo.

    • Macro 3.1

      Thanks for the link marty. Agree 100%
      Can I return the favour with an article I just read on Vox – It looks at the problem of extremist in the US – but it is just as pertinent to us here.


      In two documentary films, White Right: Meeting the Enemy and Jihad: A Story of the Others (both of which are currently streaming on Netflix), Khan sits down with white supremacists and jihadists (respectively) and tries to understand what’s really motivating them. It’s an attempt to cut through the rhetoric and the ideological trappings and find out why so many young men — and yes, it’s primarily young men — are drawn to extremist movements.

      The results are stunning. At the beginning of White Right, for example, she says to Jared Taylor, a prominent white supremacist, “I am the daughter of immigrants. I am a Muslim. I am a feminist. I am a lefty liberal. And what I want to ask you is: Am I your enemy?” Taylor is an old hardliner and so he doesn’t buckle, but Khan’s interactions with other white supremacists go in surprising directions, and you learn quite a bit about who these people really are

      Here is the Trailer to one of the two films she made “White Right. Meeting the Enemy”

      • marty mars 3.1.1

        Thanks macro – we often are in alignment (and I am so grateful for that) so I’ll look into those.

        • Macro

          I think the interview on Vox is hugely enlightening.
          I must say that I’m one who would call out these white idiots for what they are and not have a bar to them. But as the interview shows – really that is what they crave – to be vilified and feared. To actually break them down is to actually engage. It seems contradictory to all reason. But as this brave young woman found and demonstrates – it can actually have a profound effect.

          • WeTheBleeple

            The documentary is an outstanding piece of work. I could not find a ‘conventional’ link…

            While there are some differences between the white supremacists in US and NZ, much of it is the same. This documentary should be used in an advisory capacity here. Especially watch out for the ones in suits. They’re out of the woodwork in US, some of them…

            Racism, all racism, is completely and utterly wrong.

            Unless they’re Orange. Fuck that guy and his shitty crustacean face.

      • aj 3.1.2

        Streaming on NetFlix in New Zealand? can’t find them.

    • JanM 3.2

      She’s brilliant, and she’s right. I am a Pakeha – my family are Maori and my profession is in Early Childhood Education. I see and hear casual racism around me constantly and it often comes from people who should know better some of whom purport to be my friends. Every time you feel your heart cracking a little more.

      • marty mars 3.2.1

        Yes Jan I understand the heart breaking bit. I am a Māori who can walk in 2 worlds and I have heard so many hurtful racist comments sometimes even from people who i have, up to that point, thought were ok people.

        • WeTheBleeple

          I’m a white guy who challenges casual racism when it crops up (jokes they say! – mostly). I’m fucking exhausted repeating myself I can’t imagine how it is for you.

          That being said – the ‘funny’ casual racist Australian that visits next door didn’t have boo to say as we talked about events this weekend. Very subdued. Introspective one would hope.

          • marty mars

            Ta mate yes it is exhausting for us all because it is so stupid. Bit like the graphic – racism for dummies. On one side 3 eggs – dark medium and light coloured shells. On the other side 3 eggs are unshelled on the plate looking exactly the same. Seems just so simple.

          • bwaghorn

            They should teach people that if you wouldnt say something about a race if a person of what ever race that is was standing there then its casual racism.
            Had an old falla say to me today that I’d learnt his Maori trick for fixing a fence today . He looked a little stunned when i said that’s funny because i learnt it from a pakeha.

      • Rapunzel 3.2.2

        You kid yourself most times that they aren’t worth the dignity of an “argument” knowing most times you will face, as per below, “just joking” often followed by “some of my friends are . . . .”.
        Will this open some eyes? Is this really what it takes? I can see it is mainly through young kids mixing at school that change might come, things are too entrenched in older people who have “kept to themselves” all their lives. From seeing that I actually know that I have somethings to learn myself, I just hope enough people have enough conscious to do it.

    • Like Sir Donald Brash

    • OnceWasTim 3.4

      @ Marty – in some ways I’m reluctant to make the following comment because for many, they simply don’t like having their attitudes (whether conscious or unconscious) challenged. In many ways, if anything good has come out of the past week, it is that many are being forced to do so.
      Dame Anne’s contribution is one of the most accurate, succinct and non-sensational pieces I’ve seen in a long long time. When it first appeared at 5am this morning, it hit you in the face on Granny’s website, and I wish it had remained there – top billing.

      As she states: “………ancestral legacies from Europe are superior to those from the Pacific — in the law, science, social and cultural life….”

      What interests me is how this plays out in terms of power relations in our Public Service. Admittedly things were bad in the 60s and 70s , slightly improving over time, but as she suggests, they continue to bubble away just below the surface.

      I’m not going to couch it in terms of the “white NZer” but rather as the NZer with European ancestral legacies – they remain firmly in control of our public services, and therefore in the way in which we have been governed. I’m hoping that’s about to change.
      I was also hoping – even before the Herald piece was published – that someone such as Dame Anne , and even Susan Devoy might have input into the upcoming inquiry into security services, Police, Customs and Immigration NZ.

      (incidentally, if the past week hasn’t provided enough reason to take INZ out of the MBIE umbrella – which has a business focus – and which has prioritised its operations primarily on that basis over the past decade, I don’t fucking know what ever will.
      But having said that, DON’T be surprised if there are recommendations from the ‘seniors’ having those European ancestral legacies to suggest a need for some sort of ‘Border Force’. If that ever comes to pass, it’ll show me at least how legacies will prevail)
      But you see it all play out in various ways – from the serious to the trivial.
      As far as things trivial – the way we copy the Motherland in ambulance and police vehicle colour schemes – supposedly based on ‘best practice’.

      As far as the more serious things go – in the way the “we” the “us” have responded to the likes of Anjum Rahman, or a couple of others who tried to report their concerns over what we now describing as white supremacy.

      Or the way those with that senior public servants with “European ancestral legacies” actually though it OK to undertake all that “Demographic Profiling’ in the first place, and then in the second place, the way they sought to justify it after they were told it was unacceptable.
      Or the way they faffed around when a NZ-born Maori taken overseas at the age of 6 months attempted to return at the age of 28.
      Or the way INZ (predominantly headed by those with those ‘European legacies’) continue to fail understand other cultures.

      Having said all the above, there are positive signs. Jacinda Adhern has excelled herself – much to the disappointment of her opponents. And her government has been acting in quietly behind the scenes.
      We’ll see whether that continues I guess. I’ve just lost extended family who’ve decided to return to their birthplace after having had close to ten years of public service ‘European legacies and colonial attitude’ foisted on them and decided it was all too hard. I may yet follow them.

  4. esoteric pineapples 4

    Has anyone discussed the Christchurch attack and gun control from a neo-liberal/monetarist perspective?
    In 1984 Monetarist economic policies were introduced to New Zealand which were actually social policies as well, and can be summed up simply as individual rights are more important than the public good. It came in all sorts of guises such as “user pays”, “level playing fields” and “trickle down theory” and attacks on the union movement ie an economy where you give individuals as much freedom as possible and remove the state, is a more efficient productive economy. Anything that opposes individual rights is bad.
    Since then, there has been an inertia in national and local government in implementing any sorts of restrictions on individual rights whenever there is a conflict between the two.
    What made me think about this was a post by Martyn Bradbury which asks, if we can ban single use plastic bags and fireworks, why can’t we ban semi-automatic weapons. The fact is, that despite thousands of New Zealanders signing a petition to ban fireworks, and hundreds of animals killed, injured and frightened every year, we are still no closer to banning fireworks and probably have less chance of banning them than banning semi-automatic guns.
    You see the same thing being played out in issue after issue, and in virtually all cases, national and local government is either slow to act, and only after huge public pressure, or continues to favour individual rights and not act at all.

    • Dennis Frank 4.1

      Folks aren’t yet ready for deep thinking around the situation: most of them are still in reaction mode. The obvious link to neoliberalism is re the electoral mandate for excessive immigration – I’ve never seen any evidence that the left/right govts producing it in western countries did so on the basis of an electoral mandate.

      If they did not seek that mandate, it would provide a logical basis for the rightist push-back (which the left keep claiming is due to racism).

      So the left/right govts that have been using neoliberalism the past 30 years may have been given instructions to bring in excessive immigration covertly, as part of the elite agenda. The Bilderbergers don’t allow media to report their meetings, but they remain entirely open to informing the public which western political and industrial leaders attend. Other opinion leaders get invited regularly too: the influential historian Niall Ferguson acknowledges his involvement in his 2017 book about “Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook”:

      “In consequence of my work as a writer and professor, I have also joined a number of economic and political networks such as the World Economic Forum and the Bilderberger meetings.”

      The establishment uses democracy as a façade just like the puppet shows we watched at beach carnivals as kids. Most people are captivated accordingly. Use of the left & right as glove puppets goes back to the 19th century but it only becomes obvious to the few who read history…

      • marty mars 4.1.1

        “Folks aren’t yet ready for deep thinking around the situation: most of them are still in reaction mode.”

        More attempted shaming – I’ve put up links to lots of thoughtful articles from thoughtful people thinking deeply as have others. I’ve read deep deep analysis by some on here and shallow thinking too. I think you are showing how irrelevant and out of touch some can be in the face of horrendous events.

        • Gabby

          Hey leave franky alone, he’s a neminence gris dewnchnew.

          • marty mars

            I’ve been gobsmacked by the lack of self awareness – big brain or not that is sad.

            • solkta

              I think you mean big head.

              • marty mars

                No doubt he’s smart just limited in vision due to priviledge and unable to recognize it imo. Pretty common in that cohort.

                • KJT

                  He’s a “centrist”, doncha know.

                  Another Pete George?

                  RL, regrettably, seems to be going the same way.

                  “But, on the other hand”.

            • OnceWasTim

              Sometimes “fuck off muppet!!!!!!!” is so much of an easier response, and probably a more economical use of time and place. But of course we’re adults in here eh?
              It’s why I’ve decided to comment on rare occasions, but sure as shit there are quite a few that test my caring and sharing-I’m so cool’look at moi disposition

              Btw @ Dennis – you had me fooled but you also reminded me of something.
              “Never judge a book by its cover”.

              It’s a valuable lesson.
              Now where is the Beige Badger when he’s needed ? (Probably stuck half a mile up a DF arse somewhere)

      • solkta 4.1.2

        If they did not seek that mandate, it would provide a logical basis for the rightist push-back (which the left keep claiming is due to racism).

        Of course it is due to racism you prat. In the North here we have had a flood of immigrants from the US, England, Germany and (white) South Africa yet we don’t have people complaining about, threatening, damaging property of, or trying to kill these immigrants.

        • Dennis Frank

          I fail to see how conflating the right with the alt-right can lead to intelligible political discourse. The whole point of responsibility for behaviour is correct allocation. The killer was alt-right, so blaming rightists is banal – particularly when the media is full of rightists condemning the massacre in the same terms as anyone else.

          Your repetitious use of personal abuse here serves a worthwhile purpose: it draws attention to the habit moderators have of tolerating it. The longer this continues the more likely it will become that this forum gets a reputation for formenting an abusive culture…

          • solkta

            I guess the worst reputation that the site could have would be that it is the home of idiots.

            Perhaps you can give me some examples of moderate right wing pushback against immigrants from the US, England, Germany and (white) South Africa.

            • Shadrach

              Why would the moderate right wing push back against immigrants full stop? The concern among the moderate right is not that immigration ceases, but that a sovereign nation gets to set its own immigration policy. NZ has had moderate left and right governments. In the past few decades their appears to be little difference between the respective immigration policies they have implemented.

          • Rapunzel

            Suck it up some are continually on the receiving end of the “left” being conflated with “alt-left” or something similar or a number of other labels.

          • Skunk Weed

            Go back to Kiwi Bog swamp dweller

            [lprent: Carry on like that and you may have to go there yourself. The swamp is the traditional place of residence for those banned here. ]

      • greywarshark 4.1.3

        ep and DF
        Interesting stuff. Helps when asking Why??
        This resonates.
        The establishment uses democracy as a façade just like the puppet shows we watched at beach carnivals as kids. Most people are captivated accordingly. Use of the left & right as glove puppets goes back to the 19th century but it only becomes obvious to the few who read history…

        It seems that democracy was only a first step training ground to becoming a citizen and moving to a balanced, better way of living and running the country than the familiar despots and paeons. But apparently you have to take politics seriously, be working at it all the time; learn about it not just regard education as alphabet soup.

        We have let it slip out of our fingers, thinking we have got it, leave it to others to run, and now all will be fine! Can we sharpen up, learn how to stop half- understanding each other, falling off the argument track into splintered fragments? Can we establish groups of people in each town who specialise in one area of governance and are knowlegeable and who come together to advise government? And have regular meetings that talk about problems that locals have put up, and have people come along and listen, with speaking time. A bit like local Council usually does. And can those people think and agree what is needed, and put ideas forward on which public interested in the public good can vote? Then they would go ahead as remits for action locally to fit into national plans and be the basis of government actions. (Cleangreen and a group apparently, has been doing this for a while over the need for rail access to Gisborne).

        It seems that is one way we can get our democracy back out of the hands of superior, narcissistic people who are really callous and self-interested.

        • Dennis Frank

          In the Greens we decided to advocate participatory democracy. Not so much to replace representative democracy, more as a complementary system. To empower citizens. I suspect it was derived as a general principle by learning from how ngos were operating in the eighties – most who formed the Greens had prior ngo experience.

          Few people have the time, energy & motivation to do it. Thus we will continue to default to representative democracy. Unless social media becomes constructive (rather than destructive). There’s no reason the internet can’t become a force for good – after all, it was conceived as that as soon as it expanded beyond the military origin (Arpanet). Human nature polluting it could be regarded as a learning curve for us: self-organising systems do incorporate regulation via negative feedback. Humans do it via criticism.

  5. esoteric pineapples 5

    “Hell is empty and all the devils are on social media” ― William Shakespeare, The Tempest

  6. marty mars 6

    A tough article but beautiful as well.

    “Thing is, we really can’t claim total ignorance here. There have been a plethora of New Zealand news stories warning us about this threat, of Jewish graves being desecrated, pig carcasses being left at mosques, refugees being beaten up, Asian students being abused on the streets, and a Molotov cocktail being thrown at a marae.

    This inattention is a type of racism in itself. This apathy. Turning a blind eye. It speaks at a very deep level to a lack of Pākehā connection, accountability and empathy towards those who white supremacists targeted: Māori, Pasifika, migrants, Muslims, refugees, the Jewish community. It speaks to the social bubble that most Pākehā live in, where we don’t come to really understand the grinding, corrosive and threatening effects of everyday racism and hatred… ”


    • gsays 6.1

      thanks marty, when those events are highlighted, (grave desecration, pigs @ mosques etc), it’s beyond belief that the spooks were looking at muslims, journalists, peace and eco activists.

      when the dust settles, i trust that the prime ministers statements about hard questions needing to be answered, are answered.
      especially questions from those most impacted e.g. the muslim women who time and time again, tried to bring this to the attention of the authorities.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1

        I suggest marty mars that it stems from not being bothered about it. The ‘Oh well, it doesn’t affect me attitude.’ SEP. Lazy about standards in public life. And with a higher sense of quality of behaviour, morality, and attitude in NZ than is justified when looking at the actuality.

  7. vto 7

    What sort of animal is David Tipple, of Gun City, in selling huge numbers of the weapons used in the massacre over the weekend… just a few kilometres down the road ffs?

    He is an enabler. What a terrible terrible person.

    Good opportunity for student protest – blockade all Gun City shops. Not just to prevent the sale of more guns, but to protest those supremacists who are so very familiar with gun sales, hardware and shops. Get in their face.

    • gsays 7.1

      “what a terrible terrible person”
      indeed, another word is capitalist.

    • Gabby 7.2

      It’s just possible that Dave Nipple is calculating the commercial benefits of violence.

    • marty mars 7.3

      + 1 totally agree and with that sick sign of his – just a disgrace.

    • mauī 7.4

      Yes, doesn’t want to get involved in the gun debate even though that is his business and a large part of his way of life. A man just putting his head down and doing his job without conscience?

    • joe90 7.5

      What sort of animal is David Tipple

      Someone deemed a fit and proper person to sell firearms, apparently.


      A gun dealer who has vowed to prosecute a TV journalist who bought a rifle from his shop without a firearms licence was accused of buying hundreds of guns with false identification in America a decade ago.

      Gun City owner David Tipple, 60, this week said if police did not charge MediaWorks journalist Heather du Plessis-Allan at the end of its investigation into her sting, he would launch a private prosecution.

      Records show the Christchurch millionaire has himself faced charges of illegally buying firearms, which were eventually dropped.

      In 2002, Mr Tipple was arrested at Los Angeles airport after US Customs officials found 29 guns and 340 rounds of live ammunition in his baggage.

      He pleaded guilty and was convicted of failing to notify an airline in writing that he had firearms in his luggage.

      Mr Tipple received the maximum sentence of 12 months in a New Mexico jail after violating his bail conditions by travelling to Japan and Frankfurt.

      But just weeks before his release date in 2004, he was indicted on federal firearms charges for illegally buying 363 rifles and shotguns from a US gun dealer.

      The indictment, seen by NZME News Service, alleged that he “knowingly made a false and fictitious” claim to Franklin’s of Athens gun shop in Georgia that said he was a resident of the state.

      The charges alleged that between August 2000 and August 2002 he illegally bought hundreds of mainly Ruger, Remington and Browning rifles, and Winchester and Beretta shotguns, a Colt pistol and many other brands of firearms.


      Road spikes were needed to stop a Christchurch gun-shop director in a high-speed, late-night police chase, a court has been told.

      Gun City director David Matthew Holden Tipple was yesterday fined $1250 by Christchurch District Court Judge Stephen Erber after he admitted reckless driving and failing to stop for police. He was disqualified for eight months.

      The judge said Tipple had picked up a car after returning from an overseas trip. He was seen speeding late at night by police near Tokoroa, and was clocked at 137km/h.

      Police began a chase but even after reaching 168km/h they were not closing the gap as they approached the Waikato town.


      And, like father…


      Tim Tipple
      Sales Manager/Imports

      My favourite type hunting is Wallaby Shooting, this Saiga 20K shotgun is the gun I like to use because the detachable mag and Semi Auto action makes it the ultimate for wallabies.



      The Crown Solicitor at Christchurch charges that Timothy John Holden Tipple on 19 June 2004 at Christchurch without reasonable cause otherwise dealt with a firearm with reckless disregard for the safety of others.


      The applicant was convicted on his trial before a District Court Judge andjury on a count of careless use of a firearm laid pursuant to s 53(3) of the Arms Act1983. He appealed unsuccessfully to the Court of Appeal and now applies to this Court for leave to appeal.


      There is nothing in any of the matters raised by the applicant which disclosesa question of general or public importance or the possibility of a miscarriage ofjustice. The application must be dismissed


      edit: seems it runs in the family

      Matt Tipple

      My favourite type of hunting is wallaby shooting, I like to use the 5.7×28 upper on an AR15 because it’s quiet and has a large magazine capacity



      Ram-raid ring sequel in court
      findNZarticles partner logo

      Date: 2003

      Matthew James Holden Tipple, 21, son of David Tipple who manages the firm Gun City, is sentenced for receiving stolen items.


      • Rosemary McDonald 7.5.1

        That is one impressive bit of research joe90. Love wayback machine. One can hide…but not for long.

      • Bazza64 7.5.2

        Thanks Joe90

        Didn’t know all that history about David Tipple, a really revealing read – doesn’t seem like the guy should still have a licence to sell guns.

      • Gabby 7.5.3

        I had no idea gun smugglers were allowed to be legal dealers. Maybe the police just didn’t know. They often seem not to know stuff people tell them.

    • Cinny 7.6

      Someone should do some serious investigation into tipple.

      And that stuff article on him that lists his convictions etc…. they should change ‘shot at some skinheads’ to ‘shot at some junkies’

      Time for the truth to be told.

  8. alwyn 8

    Well this was certainly quick.

    “Minister in charge of intelligence agencies says inquiry into terror attack will show spy agencies did their jobs”

    Little has told the inquiry what they have to come up with in their report and that it has to say that all the Agencies he is responsible for are perfect.
    I am leaning toward Seymour’s opinion that any inquiry must be a Royal Commission. If we are going to get the truth it has to be done by someone who is totally independent of the Government.
    Otherwise we will get results like this preordained one that Little has announced.

    • Dennis Frank 8.1

      Not a good look, eh? Andrew seemingly lapsed into Labour party thinking. Auto-defend public servants regardless of wrong-doing. He’d been fronting his ministerial roles well up to that point.

      • alwyn 8.1.1

        It isn’t just the Labour Party though.
        It rather smells as if New Zealand First have been leaning on the Police to try and pin something on Bridges and, when they haven’t done so, got them to pass it on to the SFO while Shane Jones instructs the SFO on what outcome is required.

        • mpledger

          Have you got a smidgen of evidence for this fanciful story you’re spinning.

          • alwyn

            Well here is something he said in Parliament last week.
            ” I make a prediction: the Serious Fraud Office, once unwisely sicked by that side of the House on to our leader, knows we will study every single step that they take, to ensure—because it’s the National Party—it’s not whitewashed. We will ensure that happens.”
            If that is not telling the SFO what the Government expects from them I don’t know what is.
            I suggest you read the whole of his speech. It isn’t very long.

            • Gabby

              Why wally that’s unheard of, a government agency doing its job. It smacks of the worst excesses of the French Revolution.

              • alwyn

                Are you really one of those people who think that Government Departments are solely there to enforce the wishes of the Government MPs?

                I suppose you are happy with the idea that anyone who is other than totally admiring of the Government members should simply have the IRD demand a million dollars of them in back taxes and then bankrupt them.
                No evidence of any offence should be needed of course.

                Or that the Police should charge them with some crime that they never committed and that a Court should then sling them in prison because the PM wants it done.

                Thank God you aren’t in power. You really do sound like a fascist. Or like one of the leading lights in Putin’s Government which is, of course, the same thing.

                • Gabby

                  Well done on condemning the gnatses wally, you clearly agree with the Pompous Prince of the Provinces.

          • Incognito

            Thank you.

  9. gsays 9

    listening to RNZ, i am heartened to hear that the privacy commissioner, John Edwards, is asking for police to get the names of everyone who ‘shared’ the coward shooter video.

    that might give people the message that they are not anonymous, and what a disguting, perverted behaviour they took part in.
    to me, sharing the clip is applauding the shooter.

    also, in the above clip, 50 advertisers are considering pulling facebook ads.

    have y’all removed yourselves from the platform?

  10. Dennis Frank 10

    We now have a Marxist woman defending Sean Plunket: “Plunket was one of the few willing to interview the campaign group Speak Up For Women and discuss the encroachment on women’s rights by transactivists. The transactivists have denounced SUFW as spouting hate speech and bigotry and demanded they be no-platformed, and had posters taken down, and tried to shut down meetings. The hate and bigotry in this case came from the accusers not SUFW.”

    Leftists must begin taking responsibility for their use of hate speech. Their addiction to copying the alt-right is escalating hostilities. Grow up, fast!

  11. vto 11

    Where are the leaders of the Anglican and Catholic churches in Christchurch? (and others)
    Shouldn’t they be publicly denouncing the massacres and meeting with the Muslim community?
    Where are they?

    • Sabine 11.1

      no actually they should be on TV telling everyone that christianity is not a religion of hate.

      we would expect this of Muslim clerics if the terrorist would have been a muslim.

      however seeing that you have issues using google



      • vto 11.1.1

        sure, but that aint enough imo.

        they should be face-to-face, and on tv, as you say

        it should be significantly more public in nature than that shown in your links

        • Sabine

          well why don’t you tell them that what they do is not good enough and why don’t you tell them in detail what would be good enough for you?

          what have you done?

          seriously you are a bit full of yourself ey?

          besides, you can go and check to see if you see more info coming up, cause i did not try hard and only took the first two option that came up.

          why would i support your laziness and your arrogance?

          • vto

            having a bad day dearie..?

            fyi, this was in our backyard and we have been as involved as we can handle, which includes dealing with these issues directly and personally, outside of here, including making contact with the churches as above

            but good on you and your glued-up butt

            now tell us what you have done

            • Skunk Weed

              Will be interested to know who the Australian Gunman has been communicating with here in NZ ?

            • Gabby

              You could take up the slack veetee, pull finger sweety.

            • Sabine

              i found you some samples of clergy doing stuff.

              You do a lot of whinging honey, yet you seem to be unable to use a. a search engine, or b. to look up local news .

              and please leave my lovely back behind. I don’t like verbal sexual harassment.


        • mpledger

          It’s up to the news media who gets on tv. Obviously TVNZ and TV3 didn’t think the comments of church leaders worth showing.

        • Cinny

          I take it you didn’t watch Q+A last night vto?

          Or TVNZ late night news, last night.

    • Ad 11.2

      The PM’s team will be guiding all the major institutions on official commemorations.

      One of the big Christchurch churches proposed doing one on Saturday but the Police were not able to provide a security plan in time and recommended against it.

  12. marty mars 12

    I think name and shame on this is the way to go. We must show everywhere, including Australia as in this example, that hate will not be tolerated.

    “Police prosecutor Brevet Sergeant Peter Finey told the court police were on Friday made aware of comments posted by Vinzelberg and photos that showed him with a firearm.

    “It was after the Christchurch massacre,” he said. “He posted certain things on Facebook in support of that.””

  13. marty mars 13

    Thank you Jacinda – there is no ambiguity here – time for some people to front up and get on board – you’ll be applauded by me.

    “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has urged gun owners to follow the lead of others and hand them over to police.”


    • Peter Christchurh nz 13.1

      Yep, as much as I previously detested her, I have to admit she was placed under intense pressure and has risen to the occasion. Great job PM!

  14. UncookedSelachimorpha 14

    On RNZ today:

    “The man accused of Friday’s terrors attacks in Christchurch was also active on social media in expressing his views.

    A security analyst John Coyne from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute told Morning Report the chances of tracking every radicalised person online was extremely difficult for security services.

    Dr Coyne said it was hard to distinguish between an immature teenager’s ranting and a committed ideologue’s rant among a massive amount of data.”

    Surely either (immature teenager… committed ideologue) is good reason to revoke a gun licence?


    • Sabine 14.1

      no rather code, a lot of his speak is gamer talk. according to someone who games a lot and who read parts of the manifesto it seems that he is ‘trolling’ the readers.

      this guy is sane. he should not be given the excuse of ‘insanity’.

      it took him two years to come here, get the weapons, train, stake the location etc and then go in for his ‘party’.

      Most teenagers i have met are rather mature, they go to school, they have jobs, they do chores, they volunteer, they have lives. And they – as of now – don’t go about shooting people assembled to pray in a house of worship.

      • WeTheBleeple 14.1.1

        “according to someone who games a lot and who read parts of the manifesto it seems that he is ‘trolling’ the readers”

        Absolutely. His writing is poison and should be avoided. Psychopath.

        • Sabine


          we should read it, we should discuss it, and we should understand that the part that is not code and trolling is deadly serious and we should know.

          Because those of us that are not right wing wanna be Ersatz Nazis, we have no idea what these guys want to do.

          These guys are not economically anxious white male working class, they are no little angelic boys gone wrong, they are happy to kill us.

          They have been raised on this stuff, coming from politicians, clergy, reporters, news men / women, opinionators and the likes and the worst we can do is read the shit they believe and want to enact so that we don’t always stand there like deer in the light wondering why this shit happens.

          He is not a psychopath, he is a racist. Out and proud white power. White supremacy. Name it and then we can realise that what he did in his believe is the only logical thing to do. Eradication of people because they are not white. He is the personification of the ‘banality of evil’.

          And many here have posted links to musings on racism, posts about lived racism and discrimination, and yet we still have people that believe that if they just put their heads really deep in the sand it does not happen.

          well, it does happen here because it is us, it comes from us and it kills us.

          • WeTheBleeple

            I get what you are saying. It is obviously of academic and security interest.

            I was recommending, for the general public, not a good idea.

            Twisted crap I’d hazard a guess.

  15. dv 15

    Surely either (immature teenager… committed ideologue) is good reason to revoke a gun licence?

    Or at least have a visit.

  16. Dennis Frank 16

    So, their first building got taken out last year, their second this year. Serious serial deletion: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/385032/kaitaia-gun-club-fire-suspicious-say-police

    Makes one wonder if a copycat take-out of the Chch gunshop is in the pipeline, eh?

  17. arkie 17

    Lamia Imam: ‘I cannot forgive the rhetoric that got us here’

    I looked at my New Zealand passport with pride and told myself I came from a country that was more compassionate and kind, a country that was slightly better.

    Today we are no better. We as a country failed to stop something horrific, because we like to believe we are better. We like to believe that for example Duncan Garner’s words that compared immigrants shopping at K-mart to a human snake are not racist.

    The media published a New Zealand First member’s words that Indians and Pakistanis are arrogant and force their ways and means on New Zealanders without thinking about their impact.

    We don’t believe these words can ever have a violent impact, because we are New Zealand and we are better.

    When MPs talk about immigrants in terms of net numbers, economic burdens, their inability to assimilate, we think that language is acceptable because it is not as bad as what white supremacists say.

    • marty mars 17.1

      Thanks for that – so powerful. I promise I wont forget this in election year or when the next anti immigrant rhetoric starts up again. No more backward steps.

      • solkta 17.1.1

        I promise I wont forget this in election year

        Are you thinking of joining the Greens marty?

        • marty mars

          No but may vote for them again – felt my vote for Met a bit of a waste last time but they got two ticks from me. I try to walk the walk not just talk the talk but try is the key. 🙂

          • solkta

            A shame as your ideas are a very close fit. Try is all any of us can do.

            The Party Vote is the one that counts.

    • Stuart Munro. 17.2

      You need to distinguish between race and policy based criticisms of immigration.

      “New Zealand’s current migration rate is almost four times as high as the United Kingdom and the United States.” Google

      That’s high by international standards, and contributes to extremely serious issues like the housing crisis.

      Under the previous government, all of the restrictions that moderated negative migrant influences were being routinely circumvented. Fake qualifications, fake students and training courses, fake jobs and fake worker shortages had become the rule rather than the exception, and even now there is little to suggest that Immigration is doing the job that is expected of a competent civil service.

      Conflating policy failure criticisms of immigration with white supremacy is the fastest way to destroy public support for migrants.

      • greywarshark 17.2.1

        Stuart M
        Thanks for persisting in trying to keep a reasoned thread on the talk as we all are feeling emotional about the recent event and all the bumbling and irrational and rorting policy that preceded it.

        • Stuart Munro.

          Thanks Grey – bit of a Sisyphean task, but I try.

          • WeekendWarrior

            Agree, thanks Stuart. I do fear that anyone attempting rational debate on immigration issues going forward will be tarnished by some as aligning with the white supremacist.

  18. Peter Christchurh nz 18

    Ian Lees-Galllway stated today that ‘automatic residency for victims of the Mosque shooting is being considered’ by the government.

    Great humanitarian gesture. I am sure most people right across the political spectrum would be in support of this.

    • Stuart Munro. 18.1

      I know the Muslim refugees I taught many years ago were badly stressed by slow processing from Immigration that kept them inappropriately in limbo for years.

      This atrocity has no doubt caused massive stress all around it, and expeditious resolution of immigration matters would be one way to take some stress away.

  19. Kevin 19

    Bridges couldn’t lie straight in bed.


    “National leader Simon Bridges says an “emotional junior staffer” deleted a UN migration pact petition after the Christchurch terror attack, which killed 50 people.”

  20. Sacha 20

    Pussyfooting over. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/18/christchurch-islamophobes-media-anti-muslim

    Politicians and the media know exactly what they are doing. They know that hating Muslims sells, whether it is for votes or for clicks or for profile raising. They know that there is a sweet spot where prejudice against Muslims and anti-immigration sentiment intersect, and that the former is a good way of legitimising the latter.

    To still think that there is some productive debate to be had, some way to successfully challenge these views by inviting them into the mainstream and “exposing” them, is to be lulled into a false sense of security. The horse hasn’t just already bolted: it is armed with intent and livestreaming its rampage on Facebook.

    • WeTheBleeple 20.1

      Great article. On a local front of Islamophobia:

      Who can forget this little gem – Someone on facebook comments the bus seats look like burqas, photo gets shared almost 13K times by a group called Fatherland First, so NZH prints an article on the reactions bla bla while reprinting the photo and some of the ‘clubs’ bile.

      THE CONTROVERSY. Not Islamophobia < = see, controversy.


      I got no filing system but I can pull up historical BS from trigger words all day.

      From your link

      "It is time to stop pleading. It is time to call things what they are and not temper or apologise for the strength of the allegations, to call people racists, opportunists and complicit hatemongers even if they do grace our prestigious publications and seats of governance. It is time to do what they always accuse you of doing anyway, and “shut down the debate”


  21. joe90 21

    Of course, MBS and Javanka are besties

    (alternative link below)

    WASHINGTON — Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia authorized a secret campaign to silence dissenters — which included the surveillance, kidnapping, detention and torture of Saudi citizens — more than a year before the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, according to American officials who have read classified intelligence reports about the campaign.
    At least some of the clandestine missions were carried out by members of the same team that killed and dismembered Mr. Khashoggi in Istanbul in October, suggesting that his killing was a particularly egregious part of a wider campaign to silence Saudi dissidents, according to the officials and associates of some of the Saudi victims.
    Members of the team that killed Mr. Khashoggi, which American officials called the Saudi Rapid Intervention Group, were involved in at least a dozen operations starting in 2017, the officials said.


    The Rapid Intervention Group also appears to have been involved in the detention and abuse of about a dozen women’s rights activists, who were detained last spring and summer. The activists, who had campaigned for lifting the kingdom’s ban on driving by women, included several well-known figures: Loujain al-Hathloul, who had been jailed for trying to drive her car into the kingdom from the United Arab Emirates; Aziza al-Yousef, a retired computer science professor; and Eman al-Nafjan, the linguistics lecturer.
    At first, the women were not held in a prison, but were detained informally in what appeared to be an unused palace in the Red Sea port city of Jidda, according to Ms. al-Hathloul’s sister, Alia. Each woman was locked in a small room, and the windows were covered. Some of the women were frequently taken downstairs for interrogation, which included beatings, electric shocks, waterboarding and threats of rape and murder.


    • Kevin 21.1

      But where does she stand on Guaido?

      • joe90 21.1.1

        WTF are you on about?

        • Kevin

          She seems to have very definite stance on state sponsored killing in SA, but on Venezuela, other than opposing sanctions and calling for new elections she has little to nothing to say about Guaido.

    • Dennis Frank 21.2

      If true, such organised evil requires surgical excision. I’m suspicious about why the admin officials are being so coy though. Looks like the situation is serious enough to form the basis of a global corrective campaign. I agree the Trump regime ought to exhibit moral spine and take action.

      • joe90 21.2.1

        They’ll do nothing because US foreign policy now revolves around enriching both royal families.

  22. marty mars 22

    Audit hard, prosecute harder if appropriate.

    “A Christchurch insulation company which promotes Nazi themes has been reported to police and removed from a popular review website following a terrorist attack at two Christchurch mosques on Friday.

    Beneficial Insulation, which was incorporated in 2010, features a number of Nazi-related themes in its name and branding.”


    • Cinny 22.1

      Welcome to the ChCh that only some people are aware of…..JS

    • joe90 22.2

      Dude’s an actual nazi.

      Video emerged on Friday featuring Christchurch tradesman Philip Neville Arps packaging and delivering the pig heads to Linwood mosque in 2016. Photo


    • Exkiwiforces 22.3

      Holy moly, look at what the cat drag in from the sewage my love. A former white power member from Hornby/ Hei Hei area well Mr Arps you bully boy and I remember you very well my son in more ways than one. Karma is such bitch when the size 9 is on the other boot.

      How many of your white power pals from Hornby/ Hei Hei area with their little whores in tow are going to get nicked? Well one down about 40- 60 to go from memory if they are not already in the prison.

      Well I can tick you off now.

      Must be wee quite at the Yaldie or at the Trust Hotel or those dingy honker tonk bars near the mall atm as no one else we’ll have you lot? Heck even the Swamp and the Mile probably won’t you lot either.

  23. Dennis Frank 23

    Andrew Little’s attempt to predetermine the outcome of the intelligence inquiry has been condemned by another leftist: No Right Turn.

    It’s a good example of how leftists seem to naturally subdivide between those who want to do things properly and those who don’t. Of course, it’s also possible that Andrew is motivated by his conscience: dramatizing the tendency as a deliberate intention to provoke public awareness of it.

    • Incognito 23.1

      I didn’t see the interview on Q&A but I did read the article in the NZH and although I can see why a biased person would jump to the foregone conclusion, I don’t arrive at the same. To me “organisational blind spots” is a euphemism for “screw up”.

  24. WOW !

    Turkish President warns NZ over mosque attacks, invokes Gallipoli …


    Turkish President President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has invoked the Anzacs’ Gallipoli campaign in World War I in responding to the mosque attacks in Christchurch, saying anyone who went to Turkey for anti-Muslim reasons would be returned “in coffins”, as their grandfathers were.

    Foreign Minister Winston Peters rebuked Erdogan’s use of that footage and Erdogan’s comments about New Zealand, saying he had told Turkey’s Foreign Minister that it was unfair and dangerous to blame New Zealand.

    “Anything of that nature that misrepresents this country, given that this was a non-New Zealand citizen, imperils the future and safety of the New Zealand people and our people abroad and is totally unfair.”

    Erdogan seems almost as unhinged as the very people he rails about.

  25. OnceWasTim 25

    The hypocrisy of the National Party just astounds me!
    The latest – Gerry Browlee claiming security services’ failings re NZ’s darkest day has been a “massive fail” (RNZ News 13:00 today).
    And previously, their Immigration spokesman suggesting PR for the families of victims (actually the least we could do).
    However, it was 9 long years of a gNat junta that allowed the culture within our security services and public service generally to become normalised – even fostered.
    The under-funding and under-resourcing of agencies, the yea/nah, complacent, we-know-best-we’re-the-experts attitude and culture.
    Good to see yesterday’s ‘Daily Review’ and contributions from the likes of @TRP, @Arkie and others.
    And that the likes of Anjum Rahman’s concerns haven’t gone unnoticed.
    Roll on a Commission of Inquiry, and more broadly Chippie’s public service reform. Hopefully both will be broad in their terms of reference

    • marty mars 25.1

      Yep they are low. The truth will out and we will remind them of their roles. They are rightfully frightened by what they have not done and by their words.

      • greywarshark 25.1.1

        marty mars
        Could you tell me what the meaning of ‘wahanui’ is? It probably is something low.

      • OnceWasTim 25.1.2

        Howdy @Mister Marty Mars.
        It’s good to see that the best thing that’s come out of the past few days is the awakening of a laid back public – many who’ve been distanced from a reality they’re yet going to have to face.
        Hence headlines such as “the loss of innocence” and the like.
        You can understand (probably), while most of ‘lil ‘ole NuZull is shocked, the likes of Anjum Rahmun, and myself and many others are “not surprised”.

        And it’s actually quite good that the international media descended en masse – it’s at least served as a bit of a bullshit detector to the inadequacies of our own – if only because many of NZ’s so-called 4th Estate membership have aspirations towards more global stardom, and in some cases pulled their shock-jock heads in. (BBC – and in particular Kananjit Leyl, Clive Myrie, CNN and Aljazeera aside from our own RNZ ).

  26. arkie 26

    Saziah Bashir: Four things you should do following the Christchurch terror attacks

    Firstly, we must reject the notion that “this is not us”, because it is.

    White supremacy has always been a part of New Zealand.

    White supremacy formed the basis of colonial conquest.

    It is a disservice to Māori to engage in this erasure of their history and struggle, when the consequences of colonisation are very much relevant for tangata whenua today if you look at any measure of wellbeing, such as rates of incarceration, or health and education outcomes.

  27. WeTheBleeple 27

    Three Cheers for the Banks?

    It’s a topsy turvy world we live in. Banks withdrawal of advertising from social media might be seen as merely a publicity stunt by the most cynical of us, and sure, it at least partially is, but as pointed out, it may be our best way to effect change.

    So well done, and all the other businesses doing this.

    It would be nice if someone had a list of them someplace. Good eggs to do business with.


  28. Kay 28

    PM’s parliamentary statement this afternoon must be seen. Sitting still going so link should be available soon. Her refusal to ever name the shooter could also be interpreted as a challenge to stop naming him. It will be very interesting to see if our local media, at least, take up this challenge.

    • Rosemary McDonald 28.1

      Likewise. Every time his name is spoken or writ it gives him oxygen.

      As events were unfolding on Friday I stumbled across his ‘manifesto’. He is a liar. He is a narcissist. I vowed never to speak his name. He is the terrorist.

      Nah. The media won’t be able to help themselves.

      • WeTheBleeple 28.1.1

        I’ll try to stop. I’ll have to think of me own nickname shatpants is not my cuppatea.

        I’ve forget his surname already. Haha.

        They should read that out in his cell tonight. I’ve forgot his name already.

        And read the Quran. And play Bollywood movies (but never the last 5 minutes).

        And folk music, really insipid twee folk music.

        I missed my calling. I could’ve been great in the Inquisition.

  29. mpledger 29

    I’m finding it rather ironic that the Australians were worried about immigration and deported NZers of “bad” character when it was NZ who should have been worried about an Australian immigrant of “good” character.

    Even more ironic was the Australian senator who blamed the attack on Muslim immigration when the blame should reside squarely on an Australian immigrant.

  30. mpledger 30

    I read on stuff (I think) that they were thinking of deporting the Australian terrorist back to Australia for jail. The previous precedent of the French Rainbow Warrior bombers shows that it is a terrible idea.

    In Australia, the sentiment against immigrants and NZers means he’ll probably be admired in jail whereas in NZ he’ll be shunned. He purposefully did the crime here, he should do the time here.

  31. Peter Christchurh nz 31

    WO blog with its constant hate speech in its comments section (led over the last 2 years or so by SB) has without any doubt whatsoever has added fuel to this simmering fire.

    Please please please let’s all overwhelm this hate site with sane commentary.

  32. SPC 32

    Wonder what they will do to help students who read books there (some cannot be ordered on-line and loaned out) in support of their university study?


  33. R.P Mcmurphy 33

    the eagle eyed will have noticed that TV1 published bridges statement from parliament on facebook an hour before the PM’s statement.
    this disresepct and pandering must cease immediately.
    simon dallow lead the charge for john keys in 2008 and he is still allowing TV1 to carry out his slimy agenda.
    Time for a good cleanout at TVNZ.
    it belongs to the people of New Zealand and not dallow and his cronies

  34. lprent 34

    See-hitt.. I just saw that wordpress are showing the number of my comments on the backend. 20,263 and 963 published posts. That seem like a lot until I did a Nick Smith and mathed it so that it sounded better.

    About 4233 days (taking 17th August 2007 as the start date – can’t be bothered looking it up)

    20,263 / 4233 = a mere 4.8 comments per day
    963 / (4233 / 7) = a paltry 1.6 posts per week

    Still a lot of coding time that wasn’t used for its intended purpose.

  35. Eco Maori 35

    Kia ora The AM Show I can not see why the authority’s could not make a special arrangement to get the bodys back to there love ones. Evedince they have enough evidence to sink a whale that excuse does not stack up.?????????????????????????.
    steve rodgers you are full of it trump would use any tactics to grab power that’s why he is get the fingers pointing in his direction I am very careful what I write he does not care about the effects of his words. duncan must have a hard look in the mirror why put that idiot on the show of course there needs to be gun control guns don’t kill people do if they cannot get guns problem solved O stupid steve that ight the american national rifle association have a direct control of the White House. Look at that.
    We had a system of registration of firearms why did we drop that law well that association above would have influenced that. There you go you should not have even talked a them fool. That’s just another neanderthal USING anything he can to cling to power like a couple of others around the world. Christchurch is run by ational supporters they are not going to do anything to lesson the damage our government could get from this. Why doesn’t Americans change the White House name to something more politically correct.
    Excuse Excuses Excuses. Ka kite ano

  36. Eco Maori 36

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  37. Eco Maori 37

    I was talking to a good cousin of mine about 3 years ago I pointed out the reality of racisem in New Zealand to him he looks up at Te Ra and said don,t play that card you see in Aotearoa even Some alot of Maori can not see it or don,t want to beleve that Maori are getting shit on by this system the pakiha will higher his m8 when I was asisstaint manager on a 5000 dairy cow farm the farm ran smovely I worked my ASS of but got know agnolagement for my HARD WORK but I did higher 12 whanau/Maori
    Even the Maori Farm trust higher Pakiha they are being Raciest to OUR OWN TANGATA and they don,t even comprehend that there actions in not highering Maori for the Top jobs on farms is just helping the pakiha in suppressing Maori FOOLS.
    i will give them a education on these FACTS
    Taking New Zealand’s institutional racism in health to the UN
    We went because we wanted to challenge what our government was saying. I think ((((we were heard and the UN committee agreed with us that we weren’t doing as well as we could. It means that forever it is on the record that we disagree, that it isn’t all rosy, because it isn’t. Currently, the human rights of Māori in New Zealand aren’t being protected. )))))
    Simon Day | Partnerships Editor
    Partner content
    In August a group of New Zealand researchers presented a report to the UN detailing the effects of racism on Māori. Simon Day spoke to AUT’s Dr Heather Came about the causes and cures for New Zealand’s racism.
    When Dr Heather Came listened to the New Zealand government delegation present to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) she was surprised to hear New Zealand was apparently doing well for its indigenous people and ethnic minorities. In her research Came had learned the exact opposite.
    “When I sat there and listened to the New Zealand government do their spiel it felt like they put up a tourism brochure, written by PR people who have never been to New Zealand. I don’t know how such intelligent senior public servants could deny the institutional racism that is prevalent in their administration of the public sector. It was quite a bizarre experience to see that,” says the AUT senior lecturer in public health.
    Came had the chance to give the UN a different perspective. A group of nine institutions working with public health and Māori presented a report to CERD on 20 key issues where institutional racism is affecting outcomes for Māori in New Zealand. It condemns the absence of the Treaty of Waitangi in public health policy, the way Māori are portrayed in the media, and the deep institutional racism of the public health system.
    It also offered the government solutions to this systemic racism. They’re solutions that engage the potential of the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi to improve outcomes for Māori, and embracing the potential of a Māori worldview to contribute to health policy. But first Pākehā New Zealand needs to accept and acknowledge this problem exists.
    t does institutional racism look like in New Zealand?
    Institutional racism is a pattern of behaviour that disadvantages one group while advantaging another. So there’s always a flip side. Whenever there is racism, there is privilege.
    Lots of our work has been documenting the institutional racism in the health sector. My PhD looked at policy and funding practices – I did a nationwide survey and looked at Māori health providers’ experiences of Crown funding. We compared this with the experiences of primary health organisations, other non-governmental organisations, and public health units that are based in DHBs – mainstream providers. What we found was that across those different providers, in terms of factors like the length of their contract and the frequency of how they were scrutinised, there were a whole lot of domains where we could show statistically different treatment of Māori health providers – and that treatment was negative. That was an example of the racism.
    There was no justification if you read the policy documents, and frameworks, and how the ministry of health or the DHBs are supposed to be doing procurement, there is no explanation for why they would be giving Māori shorter contracts than other providers. There are a whole lot of places where you can identify this racism.
    How does institutional racism manifest itself for individual experience, once it reaches the people?
    Our work is about the structural stuff. Other people like Ricci Harris at Te Rōpū Rangahau Hauora a Eru Pōmare, have done a lot of research around what happens when people are trying to access health services. They’ve done research that shows if you turn up at A&E and you’re Pākehā, and you have a set of symptoms, and you turn up at A&E and you’re Māori with the same set of symptoms, you will get offered different treatment plans. You will get offered more expensive stuff, and more aggressive stuff if you’re Pākehā, because there are assumptions about how motivated your family are, or what resources you have available to care for yourself. The failure of screening programmes to reach Māori and Pacific communities means they miss out on early protection, and that impacts on their health outcomes.
    My discipline is public health. And that is about keeping whole populations well. We are the people that try to get people to wear seatbelts, we are the people that try and stop people from smoking, we’re the people that are interested in ending poverty because it is a key determiner of health. So we are interested in groups of people rather than individuals, but you can see the reach of institutional racism across all sorts of domains.
    Do you think New Zealanders are aware of the extent that racism exists in our country?
    I think racism has been normalised, so it is often hard for Pākehā to see the racism. We are enormously monocultural in how we conduct ourselves.
    I think we could do much more, for example by making te reo Māori compulsory in schools and helping encourage and nurture people to learn more about te ao Māori. Certainly for me, my contact with te ao Māori has been really positive – I’ve learnt lots of amazing things about this land and the people who live here that make me feel a fuller and more useful human being. I think there are lots of opportunities to learn from te ao Māori.
    In the last few weeks we have seen the commentary that’s labelled the Treaty a cover up and complained about hearing te reo Māori on the radio. What effect do comments like that have on Māori, and the success of New Zealand?
    I think it is great if people can take the time to read the text of the Treaty and take the time to learn a bit about our colonial history. If we believe in fair play, which I believe many New Zealanders do, we need to come to terms with the impact of historical racism on this country. If we manage to stop the racism in this country and improve the health and educational outcomes of Māori, we will lift up the health and well being of all New Zealanders. It is in our best interest to support Māori taking control of their health and well being.
    What needs to be done to make that happen and what role would the Treaty have in that?
    I would love every New Zealander to spend a day going to the Waitangi Tribunal hearings, and listening to the evidence and getting a bit of the sense of what happened. I went to the Wai 1040 claims up in Nga Puhi because I was living there at the time. There wasn’t many Pākehā there, but it was very humbling and interesting.
    From my understanding of a Māori worldview, the past is before us – it is not tucked away, it is forever present. The way Māori were talking about Te Tiriti at that hui I was at, it was as if it was signed yesterday. For a lot of Pākehā people, 1840 is ancient and buried history.
    We have an opportunity to choose to engage with Māori going forward with integrity and honourability going forward, and to honour the agreement that my ancestors made on our behalf. That is an approach of integrity and fair play – and that is a more useful way forward than burying it and pretending it never happened.
    We can make this right, if we have the political will to do this. For a lot of Pākehā family like mine, my god daughter is Nga Puhi, I am a seventh generation Pākehā New Zealander, my nieces are Ngati Maniapoto and Ngati Whatua, my grandchildren are Ngati Kahungunu. This is the future of Pākehā that we are going to have this blended whakapapa.
    There are a hundred reasons why we have to come to terms with what’s happened in this country, and try to end the institutional racism that we have. Let’s not be a divided country, but instead a country that is rich in equity.

    The Society section is sponsored by AUT. As a contemporary university, we’re focused on providing exceptional learning experiences, developing impactful research and forging strong industry partnerships. Start your university journey with us today. Ka kite ano


  38. Eco Maori 38

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  39. Eco Maori 39

    Keep Championing the good cause YOUR FUTURE ENVIROMENT Kia Kaha Tamariki
    Students drag mayor out of office for climate ‘strike’
    Marlborough students dragged their mayor from a meeting to make sure he them as they joined the student-led global protest on climate change.
    After their chants outside the council did not raise him students went in to the building to get Marlborough Mayor John Leggett.
    The protest in Seymour Square was among about 30 events planned across New Zealand as part of the global School Strike 4 Climate Action movement.
    About 1500 students and supporters joined in on the protest in Blenheim, most donning placards or green war paint, in a call for urgent action on climate change.

    * Climate change strike: This is why Kiwi kids are ‘bunking’ school
    * Timaru’s young women to strike against climate change
    * Telling students whether to take part in climate change strike ‘patronising’, Shaw says
    Marlborough rally organiser George Glover, Year 12, was surprised Leggett did not come to the protest.
    “I’d much prefer to be out here, watching and listening to the really amazing and talented support for the cause you’ve come together for. I applaud you for that,” he said.
    It was also great to see young people heading the strike, as it showed young people were willing to create change in the area, Leggett said.
    “This is a great show of solidarity and great show of support for something that is going to be affecting us all, so I applaud you for that and keep up the work.”
    Climate change action was something students needed to “keep momentum on”, he said.
    “No more coal, no more oil, keep your carbon in the soil,” students chanted outside Smith’s office.
    Glover, of Marlborough Boy’s College, said it was worth getting a black mark on his attendance record to encourage the community to take action on climate change.
    He was encouraged to spearhead the Marlborough protest after going to the Sir Peter Blake Trust Youth EnviroLeaders’ Forum last year, he said.
    “We’re only striking for one day, but we’re going to make a bloody big difference.”
    Springlands School students Zoe Meeten, 9, and Jess Bell, 9, were encouraged to organise their peers to head out on the strike after watching Swedish teen climate activist Greta Thunberg on YouTube. ka kite ano links below




  40. Eco Maori 40

    See Whanau human caused climate change is going to have a devarstating negtive effect on OUR POORER COUSINS while the billionares sit on more money than anyone needs making excuses about why it is OK for them the oil barrons to denie reality they don,t want to lose there money because with it they are treated like god,s but they don,t treat the people like treasures all life should be treasured not just the RICH PEOPLE
    The devastating cyclone that hit south-eastern Africa may be the worst ever disaster to strike the southern hemisphere, according to the UN.
    Cyclone Idai has swept through Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe over the past few days, destroying almost everything in its path, causing devastating floods, killing and injuring thousands of people and ruining crops. More than 2.6 million people could be affected across the three countries, and the port city of Beira, which was hit on Friday and is home to 500,000 people, is now an “island in the ocean”, almost completely cut off.
    The official death tolls in Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Malawi are 200, 98 and 56 respectively. But these totals only scratch the surface; the real toll may not be known for many months as the countries deal with a still unfolding disaster.
    Mozambique’s president, Filipe Nyusi, announced three days of national mourning late on Tuesday and said his government would declare a national emergency.
    The country has been hit by cyclones and floods before. The most devastating in recent memory were in 2000, but these could be even worse.
    Houses, roads and telegraph poles are completely submerged. The Mozambican and South African military and other organisations are working to rescue people from the air, though many are struggling to get supplies and teams to the region because roads and bridges have been ripped up or have huge sinkholes in them.
    Some people are stranded clinging to trees; others are on houses or “new islands” that have formed, and have no food, according to rescue workers.
    “Sometimes we can only save two out of five; sometimes we rather drop food and go to someone else who’s in bigger danger,” Ian Scher from Rescue SA told AFP. “We just save what we can save and the others will perish.”
    A pilot doing a survey for Mission Aviation Fellowship flew over the basin of Buzi river in Mozambique, which had burst its banks, and was able to provide the first information on the area.
    “It was a heartbreaking flight today as we flew over many miles of flooded land in the Buzi River basin. We saw many people stranded on roof tops surrounded by kilometres of water. It was difficult to comprehend and think about that probably many have perished,” Rick Emenaker told the South African site Lowvelder.
    With the first flight leaving on Sunday and one mobile network, Movitel, just restored, more details are beginning to emerge of what happened in Beira when the cyclone hit. Ka kite ano links below P.S while I write this post the sandflys are playing silly little buggers with my computa


  41. Eco Maori 41

    Kia ora Newshub Those men on the World stage strutting their STUFF is exactly WHY ECO Maori backs Equality for OUR Wahine neanderthal want war Wahine use their intelligence and deplomacy and treasure all life .
    The big tech companies need to comply and help pull those obscene videos and stop them from being reposted.
    I seen that stan just chasing money at any cost the Kaitaia trucking contractor it’s good to see big businesses held accountable for there dirty deeds Its is human caused climate change that’s causing the desaster in Africa at the minute . Ka kite ano

  42. Eco Maori 42

    M8Kia ora Te ao Maori News I the old Maori way was to treasure all life its cool that other cultures get that about us Maori.
    Its Ka pai to see all the good people making donations to help the Muslims people who lost there love in the Christchurch tragedy it will help smove the Wai in their Futures.
    That’s a awesome event gaveing all the best brightest Maori tamariki STARS together in Waikato to brain storm talk about there future journeys up there ladders of Life Ka pai.
    Kia ora to all the people who attended the World ILGB conference in Wellington. “I” we must axcept that people are different and give them the same respect as on would give there Kaumatua Ka kite ano P.S I smelt a funny faimlar smell at 6 pm tonight.????????????

  43. Eco Maori 43

    Kia ora The AM Show I will have to be careful not to back a person directly I will rember that.
    Its good to see NZ rose tinted glasses are working good the 8th happiest country in the world.
    Just the action of that idiot shows how some Australians class Aotearoa that’s why there pollies can use the deportation of Australian Kiwis as a political vote grabbing Tool it was never about what’s best for the 2 countrys just vote grabbing.
    The tech company’s are to powerful some have Ex Presidential administratior people working for them big CONFLICT OF INTEREST there.
    shonky gave them to much Power our police force which includeds all the spy agencies the main computers x3 do not have the correct security features to protect your /OUR personal data from unscrupulous PEOPLE using it against good people. IE they don’t no who the people that have clearance to axis OUR data are they can not be identified.??????????. Ka kite ano

  44. eco maori 44

    Here you go just some of the new powers that shonky gave them
    New spy laws signal “most significant” reform to the agencies legislation in the country’s history, says John Key.
    The Government is set to break a long-standing ban on the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) spying on New Zealanders with a sweeping revamp that brings our spy agencies under a single law.

    Prime Minister John Key on Monday said Cabinet had accepted the bulk of recommended changes, including extra powers for the GCSB, recommended by the Cullen-Reddy review in March.

    He said at the heart of the Bill – the most significant reform to the agencies’ legislation in the country’s history – was the protection of New Zealanders.

    Former deputy prime minister Sir Michael Cullen co-authored with incoming Governor- General Dame Patsy Reddy the report recommending new spy law.
    Former deputy prime minister Sir Michael Cullen co-authored with incoming Governor- General Dame Patsy Reddy the report recommending new spy law.
    :​The key aspects of the law changes contained in the New Zealand Intelligence and Security Bill were:

    * A single law to cover the agencies, replacing the existing four laws.

    * A new warrant system including a “triple lock” protection for any New Zealander placed under surveillance.

    * More effective cooperation between the GCSB and the Security Intelligence Service (SIS).

    * improved oversight through a strengthening of the role of the Inspector-General and expanded parliamentary oversight, including an increase in membership of the committee that oversees the agencies.

    * Bringing the SIS and the GCSB further into the core public service.

    There would also be a new offence for people with a government security clearance, or who have been given access to classified information on a confidential basis, who copy or leak classified information.

    The bill also proposes a clarification for whistleblowers, stipulating disclosures of classified information must only be made to the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security.

    But the Government varied from one recommendations in the report by former deputy prime minister Sir Michael Cullen and incoming Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy.

    It would have given the GCSB the power to enter and search private premises, but the new law would instead make it clear, for instance, that the GCSB can conduct a “remote search” of a computer but the SIS would carry out a physical search of a property.

    But they would have the full suite of powers when operating together.

    Labour will support the Bill to select committee but has problems with some elements of it, including the definition of national security and the level of privacy protections.

    Labour leader Andrew Little said the law controlling the work and scope of the agencies needed to be updated so they can adapt to a rapidly changing environment and new challenges.

    “While we will support the Bill at first reading, it does not get the balance quite right. I have confidence changes can be made at select committee which is why Labour will support the Bill at first reading.”

    The present definition of national security was too broad “and must be narrowed down to actual threats to security and government”.

    Key indicated the Government was open to changes, including to the national security definition, to get broad support.

    Asked why the Government was changing the long-standing ban on the GCSB spying on New Zealanders. without a warrant from another agencies such as the SIS, Finlayson gave a “theoretical” example.

    He said the SIS may not be able to get a warrant, say, after a tip-off someone was working with Islamic State, because it could not identify the individual. But the GCSB could not offer assistance to the SIS because the SIS could not get a warrant.

    The Government was trying to deal with those sorts of situations.
    * Spy agency review calls for ‘Civil Union’ between SIS and GCSB
    * Expanding spy agency powers ‘significant erosion of Kiwis’ privacy
    * Report on NZ’s spy agencies recommends more powers, greater oversight
    * Spy laws, explained
    * Editorial: Spy review hobbled before it begins

    He said New Zealanders had a high degree of confidence the Government was “not out there snooping on their private thoughts, their private emails or aspects of their life that have no relevance to other New Zealanders”.

    They expected the agencies – the GCSB and the Security Intelligence Services (SIS) – to look for genuine or real threats that one or two of a very small group of people potentially posed. Ka kite ano links below


  45. Eco Maori 45

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute https://youtu.be/94dBVPpymac

  46. eco maori 46

    There you go I did say that these agencys bend over backwards for the US


    A Dotcomedy Of Errors. GCSB Illegally Spies On NZers.

    Content Sourced from scoop.co.n Ka kite ano

    [lprent: Use links and don’t waste my time with breaking copyright or my computers time serving content that it can get elsewhere.. ]

  47. Eco Maori 47

    The wealthy countrys must help our poorer cousins as it is the wealthy countrys that have burned the most carbon in my view we OWE them at least that HELP
    .Thanks to the countrys that have sent AID into Mozambique
    Cyclone Idai: Foreign aid comes to Africa, media coverage impacts amount pledged

    [deleted – looks like a full dump of copyright material from Stuff ]

    Ka kite ano

    [lprent: Use links before I start banning you for wasting my time. Adding you to probation as this is the second one I have ssen. ]

  48. Eco Maori 48

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

  49. Eco Maori 49

    Kia ora Iprent how long is the ban for I did not mean to have the standard liabil for in fringe of copyrights Ka kite ano

    • lprent 49.1

      It isn’t a ban – just probation to stop any more until I saw that you’d seen the warning. Now you have responded and understand what the issue is, I will release it.

  50. Eco Maori 50

    If I seen the first warning I would not have post the second post I did not see the warning till I posted the second post my device does not up date automatically sorry how long is the probation period Ka kite ano

  51. Eco Maori 51

    How long is the probation please the sandflys will love me to have no defences

  52. Eco Maori 52


  53. Eco Maori 53

    Thanks I will be more careful I just have a lot on my plate at the minute Ka kite ano

  54. Eco Maori 54

    Kia ora Newshub It’s good news that OUR firearms laws are being tighten up to ban Automatic machine guns.
    NO comment on that x2
    There is a major catastrophic desaster in Mozambique if the whole world does not help it will get WORSE.
    I seen that trump went after Macain no need to comment on that as you will be thinking the same.
    Dust devil making havoc in Australia Ka kite ano

  55. Eco Maori 55

    Kia ora Te ao Maori News Don’t pu kana Eco Maori.
    Its logical to have a gun registration system so that the authorities no who has what firearms and if the firearm is used in a crime the owner can be held accountable for there actions or in actions.
    Heta a Eco Maori uncles name that was a good Haka in Christchurch.
    I seen one speach of hers she has a kick at people complaining about imergration for losses of jobs I still back my words as people should not be displace by out people I don’t mind imergration I just don’ like seeing the Whanau losing jobs because of it as that is a form of suppressing MAORI as far a Eco Maori is concerned if one is to be humane everyone’s wellbeing has to be taken into account when making one’s choices. Ka kite ano.

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