Open mike 20/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 20th, 2013 - 100 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

100 comments on “Open mike 20/08/2013 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    20 August 2013 at 6:17 am

    Roy Morgan.
    National down 7
    Labour up 5
    Greens up 4.
    Guess the corporate media won’t mention it then.
    http://www.roymorgan.com/morganpoll/new-zealand/voting-intention-summary

  2. just saying 2
    20 August 2013 at 6:55 am

    I couldn’t find anything on last night’s meeting in the Herald this morning, despite going right to the bottom of the page. I guess it will be tucked away somewhere. Ironically, an article on Key’s performance in his interview with John Campbell, was still up, despite it being days old.

    sigh.

    • Saarbo 2.1
      20 August 2013 at 7:04 am

      Yes, Campbell’s poll result 52666 votes, 89% against the Bill. Combined with another amazing pack public meeting…and virtually nothing in the NZ Herald.

      However number 1 item on RNZ 7am News.

      • Paul 2.1.1
        20 August 2013 at 7:17 am

        Will RNZ get a live interview from the government on the issue?
        Or will JK have a quiet chat with his mate Hoskings on ZB

        • Huginn 2.1.1.1
          20 August 2013 at 8:09 am

          If you mean the Hoskings who wrote this, then yeah, I’d really like to hear how that quiet chat goes . . .

          “Government of laws and not of men” is not a left wing principle: it was most clearly enunciated by John Locke, whose writings on government in the late 17th Century form the basis of much classical liberal and conservative philosophy about private property rights – and what is personal privacy if not a private property right? – and small government.

          Those who favour small government, and having the rights of officials to interfere in your lives and business kept under firm legal control, should be concerned about this legislation.

          You might be irritated by the way a few prominent left wing journalists have seized upon this and used it as a soapbox.

          You might be outraged at the shamelessness of opposition parties who rail against this particular extension of state power but who plan to extend that powers with every other announcement they make.

          Put that irritation and outrage to one side for now. It will keep, believe me. There is a more important issue to deal with now.

          Think on this: what will those politicians from the left wing parties like the Greens or Labour do with these powers when and if they attain office?

          If you think they will do anything rather than use these powers to further bolster the size of the state in our lives, then I have an emissions trading scheme to sell you.

          http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/gcsb-bill-why-small-govt-conservatives-should-be-worried-rh-p-144493

          • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.1.1
            20 August 2013 at 4:51 pm

            Hasn’t the Green Party said it will repeal the Act? How is this consistent with your spin?

            I suspect that, especially given the information uncovered by Nicky Hager, any SIS/GCSB left employed under a Labour/Greens/Mana government would keep spying, but not as directed by the government. The information obtained, probably about the left, would go straight to Washington. The Greens and Mana know this and even some in Labour are waking up to it. The latest revelations have only driven the point home – as a sovereign nation we cannot afford to have intelligence services linked into UKUSA, Echelon, or whatever. If we need one, we’re going to have to rebuild from scratch.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.1
              20 August 2013 at 5:33 pm

              The latest revelations have only driven the point home – as a sovereign nation we cannot afford to have intelligence services linked into UKUSA, Echelon, or whatever. If we need one, we’re going to have to rebuild from scratch.

              QFT

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1.2
              20 August 2013 at 6:07 pm

              Hasn’t the Green Party said it will repeal the Act? How is this consistent with your spin?

              repealing the Bill isn’t any good as the original Act is more full of holes than Swiss cheese.

    • Paul 2.2
      20 August 2013 at 7:13 am

      The NZ Herald’s online heading

      Rugby’s $64m injury bill
      The ACC forked out nearly $64 million for rugby injuries in the past year – with almost 70,000 active claims for players at all levels.E
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11111163

      Bread and circuses.
      Who is the editor of the Herald?

    • Pascal's bookie 2.3
      20 August 2013 at 7:32 am

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11111048

      It’s in the ‘Most popular’ sidebar on the website, currenty number two. No sign of snapper.

  3. Ugly Truth 3
    20 August 2013 at 8:52 am

    A lawyer, and atheist, and the ugly truth about NZ’s corrupt judicial system:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/08/marriage_day.html/comment-page-1#comment-1189287

  4. Sable 4
    20 August 2013 at 9:05 am

    Wonder why human rights abuses are becoming the norm here and our laws watered down. Take a look at what happening in the UK. Its time to sever ties with this country:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-interview-detention-heathrow

    • Ugly Truth 4.1
      20 August 2013 at 9:20 am

      Human rights are legal fictions which are used in place of the natural rights of common law. There are very good reasons to sever state ties with the UK, but it isn’t something that can happen overnight because of the oaths of allegiance of NZ MPs and judges.

  5. Linz 5
    20 August 2013 at 9:10 am

    “Go Figure” Moment of the Day: on Firstline this morning…
    “If Shearer was really serious about being Prime Minister he would have come and sorted this out because that’s what Helen Clark did with the then Leader of the Opposition.”
    A bit of role reversal going on there I think.

  6. Richard Christie 6
    20 August 2013 at 9:21 am

    In accordance with most historical mass movements, those opposed to GCSB might consuder adopting a simple symbol of opposition to wear as a badge etc.(e.g. HART badges, red poppy, etc)

    I suggest the outline of a fish or snapper, in red. (J Key’s attempted red herring). Easy to make, easily recognisble.

  7. Greywarbler 7
    20 August 2013 at 9:28 am

    I wish as much concern for our nation’s families in need of assistance could be shown to match that of the search for the yacht Nina and its occupants. Apparently there are 41 satellites viewing this area of the world – I don’t know if that is the total or just from the west. Concerned people are scouring views from one private satellite (the USA refused access to its own citizens to view the government’s records) looking for signs of these precious people. Our NZ parents and their children are not so precious.

    Perhaps we could have a report every day of one NZ family that had been needy and had received all the help wanted to improve their position and find themselves in a secure home, with transport, able to manage their parental duties, near to work, and with a holiday weekend provided and paid for and tutoring and sports equipment for the children, and further part-time education for the parents. Just to show that we and our government agencies are working to assist citizens to have opportunities to successfully make their way in life. To show we do not abandon our people when there are rough times and they are under stress from poverty and lack of job opportunities and low wages.

    • phillip ure 7.1
      20 August 2013 at 9:54 am

      “..I wish as much concern for our nation’s families in need of assistance could be shown ..”

      you could maybe go and watch hones’ speech to the ak town hall meeting..

      ..he deviated from the script..reminding the mainly white/middle-class audience..

      ..that minorities/the poor/beneficiaries..are already living in/under a surveillance state..

      ..with petty/minor officials bullying/combing thru/prodding into/ruling over the minuitae/privacies of their lives..

      ..(a loan required to buy tampons..?..as they are deemed a ‘luxury’..?..by work and income..?..f.f.s..!..)

      ..as part of their everyday work..

      ..hone also pointed out the truism that likely a lot of the audience present nodded along in agreement with the idea of ‘benefit-reform’..

      ..and called on that audience to attend to these injustices as vigorously as they oppose this spooking-legislation..

      phillip ure..

      • amirite 7.1.1
        20 August 2013 at 12:15 pm

        Best speech of the night, and not staged at all. I have more and more respect for the guy.

        • North 7.1.1.1
          20 August 2013 at 6:28 pm

          Agree Amirite. Hone added perspective which has always been visible but so often ignored. And “we” expect “them” to help “us” fight “our” battles. Much like the times when Maori and low boys were only any good if they won tests or the Ranfurly Shield. Those times are still with us in measure, as much as popular middle class canard denies it.

      • Greywarbler 7.1.2
        20 August 2013 at 2:10 pm

        Hone has some powerful things to say that apply to Maori and pakeha as well. Good on him. You can’t just ask nicely, you’ll get the brush-off. Someone has to insist for fair treatment and an opportunity to live life, and not the vicious punitive government punch in the nose.

        They have given away other people’s property (our trade barriers were part of our resources that protected us ensuring home-made could compete with imports – would the Dutch mine their polders,barriers against the sea, for a quick buck?) to ensure one section of society can trade without let or hindrance. Doh, they then make their own hindrance. And don’t have proper surveillance where it is needed, over their own processes and pipes. Can’t have pipes flowing with money into NZ and not have clean pipes going out.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.1
          20 August 2013 at 6:40 pm

          You can’t just ask nicely, you’ll get the brush-off.

          yep. look at the history of the abolition movement, the 40 hour week, womens suffrage, the right to form trade unions.

          The Left has forgotten what it takes to make real changes. Its why the fuckwit Right Wingers go on about “having better manners” to lefties. Because they know about the power of taking concrete action on concrete issues.

          Without doing that we will always get watered down policy wonkish positioning.

        • srylands 7.1.2.2
          20 August 2013 at 7:04 pm

          “our trade barriers were part of our resources that protected us ensuring home-made could compete with imports ”

          Trade barriers are a major cost. They especially hurt the poor while transferring resources to the few. Capitalists become lobbyists and get rich behind tariffs (or worse import licenses). How can you support policies that transfer resources from consumers to producers to prop up inefficient local production? It is ridiculous. I thought this debate finished 20 years ago.

          • Jackal 7.1.2.2.1
            20 August 2013 at 7:13 pm

            Trade barriers hurt the poor? Are you saying that competing with Chinese laborers pound for pound, who on average get paid as little as $6,500 NZD annually (Gansu province) is good for people on low incomes in New Zealand? It is clearly not more efficient to compete with economies that pay their workers peanuts, especially when none of those savings are transferred to consumers.

          • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.2.2
            20 August 2013 at 7:23 pm

            some trade barriers will be required in order to bring a degree of localisation back to the NZ economy, and to buffer us from external economic shocks.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.2.3
            20 August 2013 at 9:07 pm

            Removal of barriers only works if each country has the exact same wages, exact same services (hospital, fire, telecoms, etc), exact same laws and protections and, most importantly, the exact same enforcement of those laws and protections. If they’re not the same then the price difference is incorrect which results in industry going to where it’s least efficient. Exactly as we’ve been seeing over the last few decades.

          • KJT 7.1.2.2.4
            20 August 2013 at 9:17 pm

            When we had trade barriers, Fairylands, we did not really have any poor!

            We did not have workers paid less than it cost to live. Funny that!

          • lprent 7.1.2.2.5
            20 August 2013 at 10:51 pm

            What a strange idea. Debates never finish.

    • Tim 7.2
      20 August 2013 at 10:00 am

      @Grey
      I’ve often thought the same sort of thing after a large earthquake – the politicians, the media, councils et al – anxious to show their concern and understanding.
      I guess killing them slowly (the beneficiaries, the indigent, etc) is acceptable these days.

      • Greywarbler 7.2.1
        20 August 2013 at 2:20 pm

        What we need is to follow Thatcher’s way and decide to have a good war, it takes people’s minds off their chilblains after earthquakes destroy their housing and revitalises National Spirit.

        Trouble is after the traditional expressions of concern, the government will want the affected people to wait for a few years till they get round to taking them seriously. I remember this approach being applied to an African famine fast approaching. The authorities were preparing and expected to be ready to mount humanitarian assistance within six months. But only six weeks food was left – the reporting journalist was in tears. /sarc

  8. vto 8
    20 August 2013 at 9:59 am

    So they say that our GDP per capita is increasing.

    But is it really? Are we as a nation of people more active and producing and doing more? My suspicion is no we are not. My suspicion is that the GDP numbers simply reflect an increase in the amount of money spinning around the economy. And where has that money come from? My suspicion is all of that extra money has come from debt lent into existence and printed by the banks.

    So, same level of activity just with more debt.

    If so, that is good how?

  10. Pete 10
    20 August 2013 at 11:45 am

    @Lynn – I like to open up several tabs at once and browse between them. I’ve been getting this message quite a bit lately.:

    Your access to this service has been temporarily limited. Please try again in a few minutes. (HTTP response code 503)

    Reason: Exceeded the maximum number of page requests per minute for humans.

    Is this a bug, or a feature?

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      20 August 2013 at 12:32 pm

      Yeah I do the same and its been slowing down my Colonial Viper turbo boost!

    • lprent 10.2
      20 August 2013 at 2:02 pm

      It is a anti-spam “feature” from wordfence. It looks at how many page requests different types of organisms make per minute and throttles it if it exceeds a quantity (currently 4) in that minute, then you get that message.

      What it is for is to stop someone trying to dump the whole or a large part of the whole site at once thereby making the site largely inaccessible for others. One or the other of the limits get hit multiple times every day. The bingbot is particularly obnoxious. But there is also someone from China reading successively through various authors comments last week. And we’ve had attempts to do simple page sweeps from inside NZ (and not just the National Library)

      • freedom 10.2.1
        20 August 2013 at 3:02 pm

        lprent, you have mail

      • Daveosaurus 10.2.2
        20 August 2013 at 6:56 pm

        Bit of a bugger if you’re someone who just looks at the site every few days, opens anything that looks interesting in a new tab and settles down for a quick few minutes’ concentrated reading.

        I was ready to blame it on Sticky Beak Key and his insatiable desire to read all my emails though. Might be an idea for something to do if the error page is customisable…

        • lprent 10.2.2.1
          20 August 2013 at 10:20 pm

          I’ve widened it out from 4 pages per minute to 10 pages per minute. That should reduce the problem.

          A lot of new traffic today coming in via google. They’re reading the GCSB posts. I guess that Snapper isn’t as interesting as John Key thinks?

  11. yeshe 11
    20 August 2013 at 11:46 am

    Slippery finally tells a truth:

    “If I wholesale blatantly flout the law as Prime Minister I’m never going to survive anyway.”

    Audrey Young

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11111384

  12. joe90 12
    20 August 2013 at 11:48 am

    Sixty years later and although they may have moved on from fomenting coups and calling them silly names they’re still at it. John Phillip Shah Key…?.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/19/politics/cia-iran-1953-coup/index.html

  13. amirite 13
    20 August 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Is Trevor Mallard shit stirring? Is there a self proclaimed A and B Labour team? WTF is he on about?

    Trevor Mallard ‏@TrevorMallard 3m
    Labour “B team” #fairnessatwork pic.twitter.com/QwJw0IrrDo

    • Murray Olsen 13.1
      20 August 2013 at 4:59 pm

      Whatever he’s doing, I wish he’d just bugger off, and take Goff, King, Shearer, Jones, and Hipkins with him. He is an irrelevance and an embarrassment. His major achievements have been to close schools and gag Cunliffe.

  14. johnm 14
    20 August 2013 at 12:21 pm

    The home of the NeoLiberal revolution the U$. The Brave new world we have been copying courtesy of Roger the Dodger and his followers continues to show its true colours:

    “Drastic growth in “extreme poverty” in US”
    The 1% continue to crow on the pile’s top having cornered most of the wealth.

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/19/extr-a19.html

    • Colonial Viper 15.1
      20 August 2013 at 5:13 pm

      This is very very bad.

      • Not THE JK 15.1.1
        20 August 2013 at 8:49 pm

        Well yes, Colonial Viper, it IS very bad if the Guardian had to destroy the Snowden material, but
        why on earth – seeing they’re dealing with spooks, spies, and goodness knows what else – didn’t they keep a back-up copy or two (or more) on other sites? Surely when you’re dealing with such sensitive material you (the media concerned) would ensure safety of content by copying, and re-copying and taking the USBs elsewhere. Maybe they did do that ….. hope so, anyway.

        • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.1
          20 August 2013 at 9:12 pm

          but why on earth – seeing they’re dealing with spooks, spies, and goodness knows what else – didn’t they keep a back-up copy or two (or more) on other sites?

          They did.

          You seem to be missing the point, the UK government shouldn’t be able to demand that information that the media has be destroyed. Going the route that the UK has here it shows that the UK is well on the way to becoming an oppressive, totalitarian state.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1
            20 August 2013 at 10:33 pm

            The Guardian notes that the UK Govt was probably just making a point – that it can physically interfere with a newspaper publisher if it wants to.

            The Chief Editor wrote an editorial – remarkably – outlining what happened. He said that Whitehall officials were told that copies of the data were held internationally and that Glenn Greenwald was writing and publishing from Brazil so wouldn’t even be affected by any UK injunction.

            They ordered the smashing of the Guardian’s computer equipment anyway. One of the agents joked while witnessing the destruction that they could now call off the “black helicopters”.

  16. vto 16
    20 August 2013 at 1:13 pm

    What is it with New Zealanders and dogs? I reckon we are about the most uncivilised race on the planet when it comes to dogs. Can’t walk down the street without having to keep an eye out for dogshit bombs. Can’t go to places where dogs are either banned or required to be on a lead because so many owners ignore the rules (despite people with kids going to these places to avoid dogs). Can’t sleep in many urban locales because there will be some dog barking incessantly.

    Then you get this sort of thing.. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9064361/Rottweilers-had-attacked-a-child-before

    New Zealand dog owners are irresponsible shitheads to an extent greater than pretty much every other place ever visited. They need to sharpen up.

    Grump growl snarl

    • karol 16.1
      20 August 2013 at 1:22 pm

      Most dog owners are responsible.

      However, it annoys me that, walking places from my home, I sometimes come across a dog not on a lead (some times with, sometimes without an owner). It can make what should be a pleasurable, and environmentally-friendly way of getting place, unpleasant – because unleashed dogs scare me. The owners may think they are harmless, but how can I be sure of that?

      • vto 16.1.1
        20 August 2013 at 1:33 pm

        Exactly Karol. Nobody can be certain about a dogs intentions, as the above linked article indicates (again). Imo it is unacceptable for dog owners to impose themselves on other people in this way. Similarly with the bombs left on the footpath – in our neighbourhood I would challenge anybody to walk around any block in the vicinity with eyes closed (!) and not end up with the stinking goopoop jammed into their shoes and then walked into the house. Gross.

        Finally, I appreciate most owners are responsible but it seems from mine anecdote that the proportion of responsible owners in NZ is far lower than elsewhere.

        • framu 16.1.1.1
          20 August 2013 at 2:06 pm

          “Nobody can be certain about a dogs intentions”

          at an absolute level yes – but you can tell an awful lot about how a dog might behave if you understand their thought process and non verbal cues. The signals are different for different breeds – but theres a lot of common ground and they are surprisingly easy to learn and the responses you can use are highly effective (most of the time)

          while i agree there are some really shitty dog owners out there (hey, i live in west AK) they ARE a minority and it serves no one to take a position of it being an issue of dog owners imposing on everyone else.

          The far more sensible and productive angle is to accept there are dogs and learn how to mitigate the possible outcomes for both yourself an others around you.

          and i say this as someone who has had to drag their partner through the front door and slam a rotties head in said door to get it to detach from her leg.

          i hate crap dog owners but i equally have little time for people who assume dogs think and react like humans. I see it as we all have responsibilities when it comes to dogs in society

          (this is in no way a comment about the dog attack case in question, or an attack on yourself VTO – just my 10cents)

          • vto 16.1.1.1.1
            20 August 2013 at 2:30 pm

            I’m sure you’re right framu, especially when it comes to reading a dog’s tell-tale signs.

            Don’t know about this though “is to accept there are dogs and learn how to mitigate the possible outcomes” or this “we all have responsibilities when it comes to dogs in society”. That is imposing one person’s life choices on others and I don’t see why that is reasonable. I accept it is a reality but only in the same way that drunk drivers are a reality.

            Gotta fly…. later ..

            • framu 16.1.1.1.1.1
              20 August 2013 at 2:56 pm

              sheesh – most dogs you see in public are on no way compareable to the threat you face from drunk drivers – hyperbole much?

              re: we all have responsibilities – think of it this way.

              You see a dog in the street, you are responsible for how you react.

              The dog owner cant be accountable for kids running up to a dog and trying to pat it, or people deliberatly jumping right next to the dog, leaping at it, teasing it or any other number of reactions that will lead to a pretty predictable result. They are accountable for their dogs reaction however

              (though im a firm believer in accepting how others see your dog in public – if i had a muscular type dog it would wear a muzzle in public even if it was a softie)

              Are we not imposing our selves on dog owners and dogs by behaving like this? Imposition and compromise is a two way street. You cant sit there and say “Well im not into dogs therefore all dog owners have to adjust themselves to suit me” That just leads into a dead end with each side saying its not their fault

              Dogs exist – we should take the initiative and educate ourselves and our children on how to behave around and interact with them, otherwise someone gets bit, and the dog possibly gets put down

              • wtl …
                20 August 2013 at 3:21 pm

                But surely if one was on the street minding their own business, it is not their responsibility to avoid a dog that is off a lead, any more than it is their responsibility to avoid being hit by a drunk driver.

                • framu …
                  20 August 2013 at 3:33 pm

                  true – im more talking about our general attitude than a specific scenario.

                  You are still the author of your reaction – if the dog is showing zero signs of threat and you ignore it its probably going to go on its way – if you leap about the place and act scared the dog is going to start showing interest – possibly unhealthy interest

                  If you look back at what im saying here we all have responsibilities – dog owner and general public.

                  I firmly favour knowing both your dog AND how others view your dog. If youve got a rottie its not the most socially harmonious thing to walk it off its lead regardless of its temperament.

    • srylands 16.2
      20 August 2013 at 7:07 pm

      “New Zealand dog owners are irresponsible shitheads to an extent greater than pretty much every other place ever visited.”

      You should spend some time in Paris.

  17. Mary 17
    20 August 2013 at 1:26 pm

    An example of the approach the opposition needs to take to show the public precisely what Key’s doing in a way that everybody understands and that convinces people that Key is wrong:

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/selling-it-on-credit.html

    The opposition needs to focus properly on convincing the public, not its mates who already agree with them.

  18. vto 18
    20 August 2013 at 1:40 pm

    lprent if you’re around, what has happened to the small colourful square things that used to sit next to each posters name? Always found these extremely helpful in running through a thread – could decide whether to ignore or consider at a far faster pace. Now it takes longer to run down a thread and see what’s going on….

    • lprent 18.1
      20 August 2013 at 1:49 pm

      They should be there on both the desktop and mobile versions. But I’ve been trying out a late loader on the desktop version to conform to the mobile version. It loads the images via javascript after the rest of the text page has loaded.

      Do you have javascript turned off? Is there are blank space for them? What are you running on?

  19. Te Reo Putake 19
    20 August 2013 at 3:11 pm

    New RM poll: The relentless lying about spying has caught up with Johnny Sparkles.

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5113-new-zealand-voting-intention-august-2013-201308200137

  20. chris73 20
    20 August 2013 at 4:27 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9064246/Labours-spy-bill-changes-unwanted

    Oh dear, just when Labour start to get a bit of traction Shearer stuffs it up, wonder why he didn’t want norman to know and what will norman think of that…

    and heres the clip if anyone (including Cunliffe ;)) is interested:

    • BM 20.1
      20 August 2013 at 4:32 pm

      What a disappointment

      National party undercover agent 26 – David Shearer has official blown his cover, arghhhh frustrating he’s done some great work but the jobs not quite done.

      Key will be gutted.

      • Jackal 20.1.1
        20 August 2013 at 11:10 pm

        Don’t be stupid BM/chris73. The Minister in charge of the GCSB, John Key, is obliged under law to inform the leader of the opposition about any significant developments concerning the GCSB. The fact that Shearer had to approach Key shows that the Prime Minister is ignoring the rules.

    • McFlock 20.2
      20 August 2013 at 5:34 pm

      lol

      Given that Key’s got past history of having to correct statements in the House about who initiated contact with whom, and is apparently incapable of remembering what he’s seen, been briefed on or signed, I’d frankly want his story to be corroborated by a host of angels and saints before considering the possibility that Key’s not outright lying.

    • Draco T Bastard 20.3
      20 August 2013 at 5:38 pm

      Considering how many times John Key has been lying over the years, I’d say that everything he said there was complete and utter BS.

      • ianmac 20.3.1
        20 August 2013 at 5:53 pm

        The lesson is do not enter into confidential chats with John Key to improve cross-party cooperation, because he will twist it to make it appear like a betrayal. Dirty tricks indeed. Surprised? Na.

        • BM 20.3.1.1
          20 August 2013 at 5:57 pm

          Seriously?

          Shearer asked Key twice, the first time Key gave Shearer the opportunity to change his mind or alter the question.

          But alas David Shearer the dumbest mofo ever blindly blundered on and darwined himself.

          • chris73 20.3.1.1.1
            20 August 2013 at 9:05 pm

            Whats funny is that if Key had said no as per the agreement and it came out later they did have meetings the left would have been all up in arms about brain fades and lying…

            Of course Shearer could maybe not be so much of a fucking idiot in the first place

          • Draco T Bastard 20.3.1.1.2
            20 August 2013 at 9:16 pm

            You’re obviously incapable of reading:

            Shearer asked Key if he or any of his staff had contacted Labour as the Government worked to gain cross-party support for the proposed legislation.

            Shearer insisted “who approached who” was important – he instigated the meeting and Key had his “facts round the wrong was”.

            “This is the Government’s bill, the Government did not do anything to try and initiate a sit-down with other parties in order to get broader consensus across the House,” he said.

            It’s National’s bill and they should have been the ones approaching other parties – they didn’t.

  21. johnm 21
    20 August 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Addendum

  22. Penny Bright 22
    20 August 2013 at 5:35 pm

    FYI – arguably the most pivotal question in the Auckland Council Mayoral election?

    AUCKLAND COUNCIL ELECTION: Question asked on http://vote.co.nz/dashboard/answer/2424

    Are our CCO’s just duplicating effort?
    At present, citizens and ratepayers who have a question about council issues or who want to report a problem have to choose between the Auckland Council service centre or one of the CCOs. Would you support integrating the CCO service centres into a single service centre?

    Currently if you report a leaking drain, your call may be handled by Auckland Council, WaterCare or AucklandTransport depending on where the drain is.

    If you want to ask a question under the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act, you may have to ask Auckland Council AND Auckland Transport AND WaterCare. And they may all give you copies of the same information!

    What would you do to overcome this waste of ratepayers’ money? waste of citizens’ time and duplication of effort?

    Bruce
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    20 August 2013

    THE CONSIDERED OPINION OF AUCKLAND MAYORAL CANDIDATE PENNY BRIGHT, ON ‘CCOs’

    To be blunt – I believe that the ‘Council Controlled Organisation’ (CCO) model has been the mechanism for the corrupt corporate takeover of the Auckland region.

    (If you want evidence of corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ – check out for yourself http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    This is the self-appointed, self-selected, ‘invitation-only’ private sector lobby group, which really runs the Auckland region.

    Check for yourself, the links between Auckland Council and Auckland Council CCOs.

    How many Auckland Council and Auckland Council CCO contracts are going to member companies of the Committee for Auckland? )

    Unelected, appointed businesspeople now control core Council services.

    I am, and have been for years, adamantly opposed to the CCO model, and have had considerable experience fighting the former Metrowater CCO model, in my capacity as Media Spokesperson for the Water Pressure Group.

    CCOs must go.

    Core Council services must be brought back under the direct democratic control of elected representatives.

    The reality is that private sector businesspeople do NOT ‘transmogrify’ into competent ‘public servants’.

    The LAW, systems, culture and habits from the private sector business world are not the same as those from the ‘public service’ / government world.

    In fact, in my considered opinion, the neo-liberal ‘Rogernomics’ mantra that ‘public is bad – private is good’ – has been a global rort and fraud perpetrated upon the public.

    At Auckland Council and CCO level, there are now thousands of consultants and contractors, with their private snouts in our public trough, making private profit out of public services which used to be provided ‘in-house’.

    Have YOUR rates gone up or down since this Auckland ‘SUPERCITY’ was forced upon us?

    If this ‘contracting-out / PRIVATISED’ model was genuinely more ‘efficient’ – wouldn’t rates be going DOWN – not UP?

    As Mayor – I will have directly-attached to the Mayor’s office, not ‘spin-doctors’, but a small team of forensic investigators, who will OPEN THE BOOKS and make available for public scrutiny, the NAMES of the consultants/ contractors; the SCOPE / TERM and VALUE of these contracts.

    Also, a ‘Quality Assurance’ expert in the public service area, who will help ensure proper ‘open, transparent and democratically-accountable’ systems are in place, to help ensure ‘prudent stewardship’ over our public monies, assets and resources.

    (I have had a Quality Assurance background myself, so have some knowledge and experience in setting up systems THAT WORK.)

    Also a ‘whistle-blower hotline’ direct to the Mayo\’s office, so that anonymous tipoffs from concerned staff/citizens, can help to expose corrupt conflicts of interest.

    Unless a ‘cost-benefit’ analysis proves that the use of private ‘consultants/ contractors’ is a more ‘cost-effective’ use of ratepayer monies, then these services will be returned ‘in-house’.

    ‘Cutting out the private consultants /contractors\’ should help to free up some hundreds of millions of ratepayers public monies.

    I believe that the public majority should benefit from our public monies, and this ‘corporate welfare’ must STOP.

    (For more information check out http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz http://www.stopthesupercity.org.nz http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz )

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Her Warship’

  23. North 23
    20 August 2013 at 6:05 pm

    These words from David Slack on Mora this afternoon in response to Mora asking whether the PM’s assurances affect his position on the GCSB bill:

    “No (!). If I’m buying a used car I’m going to listen to the mechanic not the used car salesman.” – wherein Key is the used car salesman and Geoffrey Palmer is the mechanic. Beautiful !

    What the hell has happened to this country ? Are we that dumb ? A country where seemingly all the mechanics can be roundly debunked by a wan “I disagree” from the used car salesman.

    Certainly the Affable Tory Fool Mora was somewhat animated in asserting that the PM’s assurances cannot be spurious (as the other panelist mentioned) because there are those who trust those assurances. What ? Thought Mora was Mensa material ?

    • bad12 23.1
      20 August 2013 at 7:36 pm

      Lolz wans’t that a good laugh, and the TV news made the guffaws even bigger, i have often accused the current Prime minister of turning the Office of Prime Minister into little more than the rough shack to be found on any used car lot in this country,

      Tonight Him and Bill confirmed that they are seeking the annual award for the top NZ used car salesman with a vengence announcing tonight a used car salesman pay a third now and a third later deal with the latest ransacking of New Zealand’s asset base,

      Bill from Dipton, never to be found wanting for a word when things get really really stupid, when asked how much flicking the next load of power shares on tick would cost against the price gained from the share offer looked impressively akin to the village idiot when He told the media he wouldn’t have a clue…

  24. bad12 24
    20 August 2013 at 7:46 pm

    Do we take it as read then, is the American NSA paying hard cash for the New Zealand GCSB’s ability to plug the US spy agency’s into the data stream of New Zealand citizens,

    What a neat way for the GCSB to avoid all New Zealand laws currently being enacted in the Parliament, simply plug the NSA into the data stream and they in turn can report back any ‘threats’ to the current National Government,

    Who’s going to know??? when the Prime Minister point blank refuses to confirm or deny the NSA payment question asked by Russell Norman in the House today who among us would now be willing to bet money that they are not paying the GCSB here to plug them directly into the data stream,

    When the Prime Minister could not answer NO to Russell Norman’s question in the House today over US NSA payments to the GCSB the equivocation simply screamed YES…

  25. North 25
    20 August 2013 at 8:02 pm

    “Equivocation” is such a beautiful word. Means “bullshitting”.

    That’s what our society has become. Bullshit ! Great BBQs in Parnell though !

    • bad12 25.1
      20 August 2013 at 8:14 pm

      i have to wonder if the payments made by the US spy agency NSA to foreign intelligence organizations includes GPS locations so as to give the Prez an easy target should He feel the need to launch a drone or two in the general direction should future events label ‘crticism’ as a definite terrorist threat…

  26. yeshe 26
    20 August 2013 at 9:26 pm

    I think the NSA has contributed/owned GCSB for many, many years .. as long as Waihopai has been open ( or is it closed?) and even Tangimoana before then. And I don’t think the prime ministers knew .. well, David Lange said he didn’t know until he read one of Nicky Hager’s books.

    Actually, I have always wondered how the US powers-that-be had power over Helen Clark to not make this country GM free when the chance was there and the mood of the country was with her. Never made sense to me, and I have to keep wondering. How little have we known for how long ??

    • Ugly Truth 26.1
      20 August 2013 at 11:27 pm

      .. in interview, Mr Livingstone said plainly that MI5, Britain’s “national” branch of the intelligence services (MI6 is international), had covered up paedophile rings, so they could find blackmail evidence as leverage on politicians.

  27. Draco T Bastard 27
    20 August 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Closing the consensus gap: Public support for climate policy

    Why attack the consensus? In recent years, social scientists have started to put the pieces together. A study published in the journal Nature Climate Change in 2011, replicated by a 2013 study published in the journal Climatic Change, found that public perceptions about scientific agreement are linked to support for policy to mitigate climate change. When people think that scientists are still debating about what’s causing climate change, they’re less likely to support climate action.

    The problem is that, for the last 20+ years, we’ve had a bunch of sociopaths/psychopaths attacking the consensus in the public domain and thus causing doubt in the public.

  28. vto 28
    20 August 2013 at 10:08 pm

    imagine if the world’s rules and norms and structures and governances worked to concentrate the wealth and power down to the bottom of the pyramid

  29. Paw prick 29
    20 August 2013 at 11:21 pm

    Anything that dose not suit your agenda annoyes you I think. From 08 or any other time. And then you stand upon your soap box and preach about democracy at the same time banning anyone who has a different point of view. Irony

    [lprent: Off topic for the post. Moved to OpenMike. Read the policy.

    I usually ban for silly behaviour. A good indicator would be to dump a off-topic comment into the top level comments of a post. You look like a good candidate. But who knows – now you have had your wee wank and spray like a miniature poodle, you may even have something to contribute. Stranger things have happened. ]

    • framu 29.1
      21 August 2013 at 7:30 am

      dude – its a blog, not the mechanism used to run the country – get over yourself

      also – know what your on about. There’s plenty of righties who come here and dont get banned

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