Open mike 22/03/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, March 22nd, 2020 - 236 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

236 comments on “Open mike 22/03/2020 ”

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  1. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 1
    22 March 2020 at 7:07 am

    Couldn’t sleep so went for a short drive around the Christchurch CBD at 2.30 am this morning, just for curiosity.

    Usually the place is buzzing about this time on a ‘normal’ Saturday night/Sunday morning. Now the city is as dead!

    Three hot spots, Victoria Street around the Casino, Hereford Street/Oxford Terrace and St. Asaph Street – hardly any people at all. Bars like Engineers closed, didn’t see one moving taxi and only four in the rank outside the Casino.

    Some customers in The Rockpool, but seemed about only 1% of normal and few people along the Terrace.

    Not much evidence of social distancing inside the bars, but I only glanced sideways as I drove slowly past.

    Sure, the health impact of Covid-19 will be great, but the economic effects will last longer and be more intense, imho.

    Welcome to the new ‘Great Depression.’

    • Sabine 1.1
      22 March 2020 at 8:39 am

      yep.

    • tc 1.2
      22 March 2020 at 8:46 am

      Bars would seem to be where cvid19 could be having plenty of transmission opportunities.

      Some Bars all over the globe haven't seen much difference so we're our own worst enemy.

      Bondi had to be closed yesterday as the sheeple gathered regardless… facepalm.

      • Ed 1.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 9:06 am

        Not sure you have seen Dr. John Campbell’s daily videos.

        They are a source of information and calm as we face the oncoming wave of COVID19.

        I mention him because in this most recent video he despairs of the behaviour of some British and American people, who have partied and gone to pubs, despite the growing threat.

        As he says; this literally means more deaths.

        He emphasises we must learn from South Korea.
        Test, trace, quarantine.

        Time for lock down.

        • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 1.2.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 9:29 am

          Try Chris Martensen at Peak Prosperity for a slicker presentation but along the same lines.

          • Ed 1.2.1.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 9:51 am

            Thank you.

            Yes I follow Chris Martensen as well.

            Both are singing from the song sheet.

            Case, case, cluster, cluster, boom.

  2. Chris T 2
    22 March 2020 at 8:30 am

    Ardern is doing alright

    Think I miss judged her.

    Could lose a bit of the patronising in her speeches, but apart from that is holding up for it.

    • weka 2.2
      22 March 2020 at 10:05 am

      Nice one Chris T.

    • Morrissey 2.3
      22 March 2020 at 10:11 am

      She is helped by the fact that the National "opposition" is so incompetent, and so poorly led.

      • Incognito 2.3.1
        22 March 2020 at 10:39 am

        Nobody is ‘helped’ by that, least of all the PM. The Opposition may want to learn the difference between holding to account and seeding discord.

        • ScottGN 2.3.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 12:08 pm

          The Opposition seems to have learnt from their missteps of last week. Bridges hasn’t really been seen since his tone-deaf performance during Question Time last Tuesday and this morning it was Shadow Finance Minister Paul Goldsmith in the Sunday Star Times urging the government to really open the cheque book in the fight to rescue what remains of the economy. He specifically said that National will support whatever actions the government needs to take. A marked turnaround in approach.

        • Chris T 2.3.1.2
          22 March 2020 at 1:33 pm

          Not sure if it is led or advised how to portray their thing.

          Either way Bridge's was just starting to look like a petulant arsehole

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 2.3.1.3
          22 March 2020 at 1:54 pm

          the difference between holding to account and seeding discord.

          That is an excellent distinction to make.

      • OnceWasTim 2.3.2
        22 March 2020 at 8:20 pm

        Just as an aside @Moz………

        I know curmudgeonhood is a rite of passage but it really is so exceedingly common old chap.

        I think they might have even developed a pill to combat it

    • Wensleydale 2.4
      22 March 2020 at 12:25 pm

      Well done, Chris.

      Once I had to admit that John Key had done something right. I felt dirty for weeks afterwards but after a little self-flagellation and a conversation with a counsellor, I was able to work through it.

      Now is not the time for division. I'm sure the usual program of partisan sniping can resume once we've navigated this particular hurdle.

      • David 2.4.1
        22 March 2020 at 2:17 pm

        When he resigned?

        • Wensleydale 2.4.1.1
          23 March 2020 at 1:31 am

          It was less a resignation and more a rat leaving the sinking ship. "We're not going to pull off another one this election, and I'll be damned if I'm shackling myself to this doomed vessel… every man for himself!"

    • mary_a 2.5
      22 March 2020 at 1:39 pm

      Good on you Chris T (2).

  3. mac1 3
    22 March 2020 at 8:33 am

    Heh! What over 70s get up to when in isolation. Found on Facebook.

    "Newstalk ZB is being closed down for the duration of the Covid 19 threat because of causing moral panic through the spread of misinformation and unfounded extrapolation. Mike Hosking has shouldered responsibility for the close-down, saying that he has been under personal stress for some time. The above is not fact-based."

  4. Ad 4
    22 March 2020 at 9:14 am

    My Significant Other has introduced me to the ways of Op-Shopping, Hospice-Shopping, and the like.

    Yesterday I discovered the recycling facility in Helensville, which is unseen from the road down a long driveway.

    It was a total hive of activity yesterday. The carport of 20 was full, there were people milling through a rabbit-warren of the usual books, clothes, and household paraphernalia, but out in the yard was a series of alleyways with long lengths of native timber, an area where whole old houses were being dismembered and displayed like a big wreckers yard, and a whole shed full of bicycles from near-new to Choppers and Raleigh 20s.

    It was like this was where the whole town actually hung out, instead of the shops.

    As the mainstreet retail economy dies for a while, I suspect we're going to become a real recycling economy.

    • Chris T 4.1
      22 March 2020 at 9:23 am

      Damn!

      One more person discovers the shops I have brought my whole wardrobe from since about the age of 17!

      Leave some for me!

    • weka 4.2
      22 March 2020 at 10:27 am

      I think so too. Let's also remember that low income people have been relying on op shops for survival basics, and to discourage overbuying.

    • greywarshark 4.3
      22 March 2020 at 10:58 am

      Busy busy with lots of really effective citizens co-operating but remember the 1 metre rule because otherwise it might end up being closed down as a source of infection-spread. This is hard to do I find. It has to be a deliberate rule I have to impose on myself. I feel well but….

    • Macro 4.4
      22 March 2020 at 11:53 am

      https://www.tcdc.govt.nz/Our-Services/Rubbish-and-Recycling/Seagull-Centre-Thames/

      The Seagull Centre is an award-winning, registered charitable trust and has been operating from the Thames site since 2004.

      Operating as a social enterprise, the Seagull Centre is a community recycling and resource recovery facility generating revenue from the sale of goods and materials contributed by the local community. By diverting waste from landfill, the Seagull Centre is a self-funded operation providing local employment and affordable goods. The centre also provides education and training services on enviromental management and assisting training students into work. Where possible, the centre also contributes goods and grant funding to other organisations.

      The Seagull Centre has gone through a major development to establish a Resource Recovery Park and will effectively be doubling operations to significantly increase it impact of waste diversion from landfill. A workshop is part of the expansion where donated goods can be reconditioned or upcycled for sale.

      • weston 4.4.1
        22 March 2020 at 5:47 pm

        I visited the seagull centre quite recently and was supprized to see almostt no timber or corrogated iron very few old windows completely crap tools etc .I wondered if the good stuff was being siphoned off elsewhere ?.I did find a working toaster for five bucks tho !

        /

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    22 March 2020 at 9:29 am

    I volunteer at an organic food co-op. We placed hand-sanitiser (tea tree-based) on a stand, with a politely-worded notice of instruction, at the entrance to the shop. 98% of people overcame their reluctance and used the "squirt-bottle". 2% did not. When asked, politely but firmly, by me to take the precaution "for all our sakes", some said, "I'm good" and left.

    Many people walked by without stopping to read the notice (un-missable, I thought), provoking me to speak up. People are a curious beast. Awareness of surroundings is a variable phenomenon.

    Edit: as of 4:30 yesterday, the shop is closed. Now, we are taking phone and email orders and delivering to those in need.

    • Ed 5.1
      22 March 2020 at 9:49 am

      The time for ‘please can you’ has passed.

      We need decrees, enforcement and penalties.
      We must learn from Singapore and China.

      • Robert Guyton 5.1.1
        22 March 2020 at 10:15 am

        Indeed, but at the "coal-face" it's difficult for many people to "play hard" if the rules are variable. We had a constant stream of "visitors" through and some were not being clear about how long they'd been here in NZ. One particular Australian woman had arrived one day before the "self-isolate" declaration and was revelling in being free to go wherever she wanted to. She'd come over because she didn't want to be trapped in Australia. We sprayed and wiped like crazy as soon as she left. Not amused.

        Personally, I favour the advice to have a hot drink regularly, to clear your mouth and throat of any lodged virus (flu or COVID) and anyone who has suffered hay fever in the past might know the method for "flushing" the nose with warm, salty water and how effective that is in doing what hot herb teas etc. does for your mouth.

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 10:40 am

          I'm hearing similar stories from people dealing with the passing tourist traffic.

          I pretty much at the point of I'd report tourists doing that. They have a phone line set up. She's technically not doing anything illegal, but in the absence of her communicating clearly that she understands the issues and is taking precautions I'd still want there to be a record of her and where she has been.

          • bill 5.1.1.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 10:56 am

            Just to say, I pity anyone who might pick up on my accent and think I 'deserve' policing.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1
              22 March 2020 at 11:08 am

              True, but I think most people in tourism will understand that it's not the accent that is the criteria but the touristy behaviour (people dealing with tourists a lot know how to figure out who are the tourists and who are the residents, because they have to do that all the time where they live).

              Reporting is not a step I take lightly. Tourists are still a strong potential for community spread imo. That will lessen soon, but there's been too many stories now of tourists not taking the situation seriously. That's understandable because they're on holiday and may not be up to speed with what is going on, but they're also less in the loop of the social structures currently supporting the big changes needed.

              • Bill …
                22 March 2020 at 11:20 am

                Went for a coffee in St Clair about a month back and was taken for being a tourist. Was funny because I reckon I might have been in NZ longer than the life span of the barista.

                • Molly …
                  22 March 2020 at 12:10 pm

                  Well, Bill, I've had over half a century of people asking me "where I'm from" even though I thought I have a very obvious Maaori/Pakeha ancestry. The issue, supposedly, is that my accent doesn't match my looks. A very subtle way of reminding people that they don't belong.

                  • RedLogix …
                    22 March 2020 at 12:20 pm

                    That doesn't have to follow. My accent doesn't match my ancestry or where I come from … and I've had many people ask the same question over the years.

                    It never occurred to me that it could be some subtle 'microagressive othering'. People are just curious is how I read it.

                    These days I frame the question as “That accent is interesting, where is home for you?”

                    • Molly …
                      22 March 2020 at 12:42 pm

                      Good for you RL.

                      From my perspective, I consider that my accent does match my ancestry, for someone born and raised in NZ – this is the result. Your "never occurred", could mean that the question when made to you is genuine. Usually, for me, the question comes solely from Pakeha NZers – giving rise to the implication that someone with obvious Maori ancestry doesn't talk like that. That has been confirmed more than once by the follow up statement "Oh, you don't talk like a NZer", when I talk just like many other NZers. The reality is, they expected a different accent from the one they have. This – thankfully is not so prevalent now – but it still occurs, as one young person we had staying with us was asked several times in her place of work. Usually by older people.

                      Imagine how many of those NZers are asked where they come from because of their looks and their accent? I’m guessing non of them.

                    • roblogic …
                      22 March 2020 at 5:21 pm

                      For the longest time I felt the same as Molly but it’s usually Uber drivers or co-workers doing it. Since they are from all over the place, it's just a natural question, so I try and be polite. Even though my family has been here for 5+ generations… people still think I’m “from” somewhere else. Really stupid, but reflective of 20+ years of scammy, dysfunctional immigration policy & demographic shock

                • weka …
                  22 March 2020 at 12:33 pm

                  All that needs to happen is they ask and you answer. No-one is suggesting reporting people on the basis of an accent.

              • Graeme …
                22 March 2020 at 1:15 pm

                It surprising, and interesting that most cases in NZ are from NZ residents returning with a few from tourists. There's been no cases popping up (YET) from tourism front liners.

                Talking to other front liners in Queenstown everyone's got a personal story/stories of interactions with visitors with persistent dry coughs and / or looking feverish. These go from early March to present, especially in US and European markets. How we don't have many, many cases in Queenstown and all around the industry I don't understand.

                Last week it was people who were saying they had been in the country for two weeks, but couldn't say where they had been. Then stories from visitors (US market) who said their tour had been cancelled and they had to find their own way home.

                A neighbouring business owner came back from Sydney on 14th and got rounded up on Thursday and told he had to self isolate, was in a hell of a flap trying to find somewhere, bit tight in that area around town….

                Other local phenomena are realestate signs sprouting on roadsides, and trailers loaded with household effects, cleared the flat and out of town. How this is going pan out if there is an outbreak here could be fun. Lots of people have lost jobs or had hours cut below survival in tourism / hospo.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  22 March 2020 at 1:53 pm

                  Hot-spot, Q-town!

                  Can't imagine a better Petri dish! Spilling over into Riverton, naturally, but no-one's exempt from the instinct to gather until the last moment…

                • weka …
                  22 March 2020 at 2:28 pm

                  I wonder if it's because the Chinese tourists stopped traveling so much early on? And other countries with high numbers also but a bit later. Some tourists probably went home early too. Would be interesting for someone to track cases leaving NZ and what happened on those flights, given how many tourists are here for a short time.

                  I'm hoping rents are going to drop in tourist towns. Maybe we're about to see a solution to the housing crisis too. All those Airbnb people wanting permanent tenants again.

                  • Graeme …
                    22 March 2020 at 2:54 pm

                    I don't think we have much exposure to Hubai tourism wise, so missed out there, also the Chinese government pretty much banned overseas tour groups, late Jan I think. Here the virus is an American or European virus. Levels of awareness in those markets where non-existent.

                    Yeah, rents will drop here, but there will be NO work, so will be even more unaffordable.

                    As for the Airbnb lot, I know someone who borrowed 6 mill to build / buy a raft of properties for an Airbnb operation, ideally the properties are quite different to something you'd live in full time and their locations are more suited to that use. Was doing really well with it too. They're not very happy right now.

                    Housing problems here are demand driven, high rents when high demand and empty properties when there's no demand because there's no jobs.

                    • weka …
                      22 March 2020 at 3:18 pm

                      "Here the virus is an American or European virus. Levels of awareness in those markets where non-existent."

                      But the time between high infections in those countries and us taking action was relatively short yeah?

                      Re Airbnb, I was thinking of the people that shifted their holiday homes from long term rentals to nightly.

                    • weka …
                      22 March 2020 at 3:20 pm

                      Just read this thread. Apparently they're not quarantining new arrivals for another 4 days. Yikes.

                      https://twitter.com/algoriphagus/status/1241547516325138432

                    • Graeme …
                      22 March 2020 at 4:49 pm

                      But the time between high infections in those countries and us taking action was relatively short yeah?

                      Think we'll discover that the virus had been circulating in US and Europe for far longer than we think. The delay due to denial "its just a hoax" in the west, followed by the consequences of that delay might make the initial Chinese response actually pretty efficient.

      • mauī 5.1.2
        22 March 2020 at 10:46 am

        Thank you Ed. We need daily patrols of the police and military pulling elderly off the streets for flouting the new rules. Elderly caught in public without ID should be sent back into isolation.

        • The Al1en 5.1.2.1
          22 March 2020 at 10:53 am

          Yeah, a few whacks with a baton, bushmaster pointed at their faces and confiscation of walking frames will teach them. 🙄

          • greywarshark 5.1.2.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 11:55 am

            About people over 70, in the UK, as on Sunday 15th. I haven't found the update within the past week. UK Mar.15/20 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-5189587

            Coronavirus: Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks'

            Every Briton over the age of 70 will be told "within the coming weeks" to stay at home for an extended period to protect themselves from coronavirus. When it happens, they will be asked to stay home for "a very long time", Health Secretary Matt Hancock said.

            The government is to release social distancing advice for elderly people on Monday – but they will not yet be asked to self-isolate for long periods. Mr Hancock said the over-70s and people with certain health conditions would soon be asked to self-isolate – but he did not say for how long.

            He told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show people without symptoms would still be able to visit older relatives and friends as long as they stayed 2m (6ft) away from them.

            The health minister for Wales, Vaughan Gething, said it was "entirely possible" elderly people would be asked to self-isolate for long periods. "That shouldn't be a surprise," he added.

            But the Scottish government said it had no plans to isolate the elderly, and would instead "ask them to reduce social contact". Jeane Freeman, Mr Hancock's counterpart in Scotland, said: "We don't want people who are elderly to be stuck in their homes alone not contacting anyone, with their families not able to be in touch with them and to help them.
            .

            And good idea for supermarkets – One called Iceland, it's apparently a brand name, in West Belfast is opening early for the older person. (Iceland, a supermarket brandname! Have they lost their identity to commercial interests as we have lost 'kiwi'?)

            Older people have enjoyed dedicated shopping sessions at some supermarkets as the coronavirus outbreak causes more people to stock up on goods.Pensioners were able to shop at Iceland and Lidl stores before general admittance to the public. In west Belfast, the local Iceland store at the Kennedy Centre opened its doors for older people only at 8am. https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/older-people-enjoy-dedicated-shopping-sessions-at-supermarkets/

        • weka 5.1.2.2
          22 March 2020 at 10:54 am

          We're not under martial law. The announcement yesterday was a request not a mandate, and it wasn't a request to isolate in the way you are suggesting.

          There are elderly people that still need to go out for food, they have no other way of getting it. They also need to get sunshine and fresh air and exercise to keep themselves healthy and to manage stress. They're not hurting anyone else by going outside so long as they follow the protocol. They should limit this, but it's not sensible to ban it.

          Corona virus isn't airborne in the medical sense. At this stage elderly people aren't going to catch the virus so long as they don't have close contact with other people (2m distance, handwashing).

          Please stop talking about locking people up. There are very good public health reasons to not do that at this stage.

          • Wensleydale 5.1.2.2.2
            22 March 2020 at 12:32 pm

            My Mum's 76 this year and in frail health. I've told her to stay at home and call me if she needs anything. Countdown is still doing online shopping so I've had a stash of groceries delivered to her (I restrained myself and didn't buy 150 rolls of Purex 2-ply though) so hopefully, she'll be able to ride it out. I will confess to being a little concerned, however.

            • greywarshark 5.1.2.2.2.1
              22 March 2020 at 1:06 pm

              This from a UK over 70s expressing a request for using reason and not a blanket prejudice against the age group.

              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/70-healthier-lot-younger-folk-dont-make-go-lockdown/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter

              From this weekend, we are being told to self-isolate for 12 weeks, which takes me back to my teenage years, when my father banned me from leaving the house, after I took up with a boy on a motorbike.

              The item was published on Tuesday, 17 March so it may have been written pre-weekend or refer to the weekend starting Saturday, 21 March. The writer makes her points succinctly. Apparently the very large Italian death toll, being found to be among the elderly, needs to be viewed dispassionately.

              The Italian population has apparently a large population of very elderly. The elderly people dying there have been largely in the 80s whose bodies have been suffering the degeneration that happens towards the end of life. It has been pointed out that the indication that coronavirus is the cause, masks the fact that they have had multiple health problems which they have kept at bay for the time being, and coronavirus is just the last straw – not a virus striking at a healthy, unlucky citizen.

              World Health Organisation report of 2015 shows that for over 65's they have 21.7% compared to EU of 18.9%. http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/355985/Health-Profile-Italy-Eng.pdf?ua=1

              Wired headline tells it: Why the Coronavirus Hit Italy So Hard

              The country has the second-oldest population on earth, and its young mingle more often with elderly loved ones. https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-coronavirus-hit-italy-so-hard/

              As the UK older says, give us over 65-70s a break and sensible guidelines that we are mature. wise and reliable enough to follow, please! And perhaps allow for Managed Demise for those in the older group, after certain legal steps have been followed, so we can go at our leisure with a plan probably for hearts and flowers, speeches, music, love etc. even if we have to be separated by a metre. It's called making the best of a bad job!

            • weka 5.1.2.2.2.2
              22 March 2020 at 2:30 pm

              My parents are in their 80s. I'm worried too, but there are people around to make sure they are ok.

            • swordfish 5.1.2.2.2.3
              22 March 2020 at 10:17 pm

              .
              My parents are in the high risk group – aged almost 90 with comorbidities.

              Have been self-isolating for a couple of weeks … but stuck in a horrendously stressful situation.

              Here's a quick overview:

              https://subzpsubzp.blogspot.com/

              And this comment: https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-16-04-2019/#comment-1608556 on The Standard early last year.

              • pat …
                22 March 2020 at 10:39 pm

                that is appalling….why isnt this individual in a secure mental health facility?

                • swordfish …
                  23 March 2020 at 6:04 pm

                  Cheers, pat.

                  Appreciate the support.

                  The most urgent concern for me at the moment is to prevent these kids – who've spent the past 4 months with their mother – suddenly being dumped on my Parents just in time for a 4 week (or just as likely 4 month) lockdown. Horrendous level of noise … like living under siege … 24/7 it'll be a living hell for them. High stress & sleep deprivation … just what two 90yos at high-risk of infection need to supress their immune system.

                  But this guy’s violence remains a major worry … and I'll need to make sure the Social Worker & Police supporting them remain closely in touch (just hope they don’t take time off work during the lockdown).

          • RosieLee 5.1.2.2.3
            22 March 2020 at 1:09 pm

            Yes, and a lot of over 70s are still working from necessity. Or looking after grandchildren. Or doing meals on wheels. etc. etc.

        • Anne 5.1.2.3
          22 March 2020 at 11:14 am

          Are you serious? We haven't been put into enforced isolation and nor should we at this point. We've been asked to stay home and only venture out on necessary errands.

          Trying to scapegoat the over 70s as senile old goats (and goatesses) who can't be trusted to act responsibly? How old are you?

          • mac1 5.1.2.3.1
            22 March 2020 at 11:23 am

            I read Maui as being OTT witty. No more. Well, I hope so!

            My old school mate living in Italy, who like me is 70 years old, says that in their restriction period they could be stopped by the police and had only two legitimate reasons for being outdoors off their premises. Who knows what powers the authorities will have in a phase three or four situation here in NZ?

            • Anne 5.1.2.3.1.1
              22 March 2020 at 12:00 pm

              I read Maui as being OTT witty. No more. Well, I hope so!

              Maybe you're right. He/she should have included an emoji or something. He/she is a great admirer of Ed's though so don't know.

              I'm a few years older than you but I see you're on the cusp of becoming a senile old goat. Welcome to the club. 😛

            • weka 5.1.2.3.1.2
              22 March 2020 at 12:18 pm

              I hope it was a joke, but mauī needs to clarify.

              It's on all of us to make our sarcasm clear now.

              • joe90 …
                22 March 2020 at 12:24 pm

                From someone who's spent the past few years singing the praises of totalitarian thugs and war criminals?

                • weka …
                  22 March 2020 at 12:31 pm

                  I'm still willing to give people the benefit of the doubt to clarify 🙂

                • Alice Tectonite …
                  22 March 2020 at 1:21 pm

                  Certainly an alternative view point.

                  But then Māui's always been alternative, right?

                  (Unsure about that comma…)

                  • weka …
                    22 March 2020 at 2:31 pm

                    mauī, it means something different than Māui.

                    • Alice Tectonite …
                      22 March 2020 at 3:54 pm

                      Sorry auto capitalised, didn't proof read. Tired, grumpy, stressed, not as careful as I should be.

                      Even more so now that I've just got back the super where I couldn't get various things due to #*!@ing hoarders clearing out various product lines. Crazy

                    • weka …
                      22 March 2020 at 9:50 pm

                      All good Alice. Hope your local supermarket settles down soon.

          • CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) 5.1.2.3.2
            22 March 2020 at 1:51 pm

            Also according to an RNZ report from Nelson Grey Power, many seniors don't have internet access, and aren't very up-to-date with current advice.

            Having worked in Auckland libraries, I know there are some seniors, and some people not so old, who have an aversion to using the internet. Other oldies use it a lot.

            But, also, some people on low incomes have relied on libraries for computer and internet access. Now Auckland Libraries are closed, so there will be quite a few people of all ages not getting online info.

            • Molly 5.1.2.3.2.1
              22 March 2020 at 1:56 pm

              Noticed that the library computers at our local branch are always being well – and sometimes inefficiently used.

              The old system of radio relayed information would be worthwhile to implement and advertise during news programmes. Older citizens who are more likely to have no internet, are also probably more likely to have radios. I would think radios would be as informative, and perhaps more reassuring than watching the television to keep up with the latest updates.

              • CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) …
                22 March 2020 at 2:04 pm

                Yes, the article also said that many seniors use radio, and that was an important info source for them. But, it also said some seniors were not well informed. Maybe it depends how often they listen to the radio, and the times they listen.

                RNZ is adding public service announcements. Also on freeview TV channels there are sub titles/tickers with some Covid-19 updates – during movies, etc.

          • KJT 5.1.2.3.3
            22 March 2020 at 3:11 pm

            Counterproductive I would think. Stopping the elderly from walking, biking and other non contact recreation will probably kill more than coronavirus.
            I think my 89 year old dad will go downhill fast without his daily bike ride.

            The same is true for many younger people.

            We are away sailing at present. Very easy way of avoiding people.

    • weka 5.2
      22 March 2020 at 10:06 am

      Such interesting social dynamics right now.

      • Anne 5.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 10:31 am

        I think many people are starting to leave their politics outside the door because when it comes to the crunch it really is the last thing that matters.

        • Anne 5.2.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 10:55 am

          Having said that just look at this:

          It's rich of the Prime Minister to accuse the opposition of playing politics with Covid-19 when her government's own response to the crisis is dripping with it.

          Heather Du Plessus Allan on HoS. It's premium so can't read the rest and wouldn't bother anyway. That woman is as clueless and classless as a headless chook yet she gets premium status.

          At least the regulars like Audrey Young, Claire Trevett and co. are professional journalists and deserve premium status even if you don't agree with them.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12318469

          • In Vino 5.2.1.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 11:25 am

            I read it at the café, and it is as bad as you surmise. Towards the end she criticises Simon B as well. But it struck me that even if Jacinda had played a lower profile just as HdP recommends, she would now be penning something like:

            "While the Govt. measures are not bad in themselves, the problem remains that there is an obvious vacuum of leadership at the top. Jacinda Ardern has been hardly to be seen, and still leaves us all with the impression that she is weak and vacuous."

          • Wensleydale 5.2.1.1.2
            22 March 2020 at 12:38 pm

            If Heather Duplicitous-Allan was in charge, we'd all die. I'm fairly comfortable with Jacinda's approach. It's all "This is serious, kids!" without resorting to police-state "All citizens must obey curfew under penalty of bludgeoning!" which is nice. I think she knows you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. However, you can't legislate against human stupidity and selfishness. I don't envy her. I doubt she ever imagined she'd be confronted with anything like this in her lifetime.

            • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.2.1
              22 March 2020 at 1:57 pm

              "I think she knows you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

              Love that!

    • Bearded Git 5.3
      22 March 2020 at 10:32 am

      "I'm good"….yes but nobody else is if you don't do it.

      Some people live in their own selfish bubbles.

  6. Morrissey 6
    22 March 2020 at 10:08 am

    Calling out a Serial Liar

    Go to the 29:00 mark and watch—without gagging, if you can….

    • bill 6.1
      22 March 2020 at 10:40 am

      So, come November, if the election goes ahead, Americans get to choose between a compulsive liar and a pathological liar. Great stuff.

      At least Biden's 'on to it" – sent out a tweet asking that bailed out companies forego stock buy backs. Meanwhile, Trump has already banned stock buy backs in bail out legislation.

  7. Adrian 7
    22 March 2020 at 10:15 am

    Please lets just get some reassurance from the maths in this most unwanted virus.

    In Italy with 48000 notified cases in 60million population that is still less than 1 person in 1000 who has contracted it. Lets stop panicking our children, the vulnerable and of course the stupid 'preppers '.

    Yes, it is nasty and we should take all nessecary precautions but we do need to keep it in proportion.

    The death toll in Italy is a bit over the top but Italians are notoriously subversive when it comes to their governments and it appears that everyone who has died having Covid has been classified as having died from it by the medics, but the flu, emphysema and associated lung and heart disease numbers are way down on a normal year.

    It may be just a way to " punish " the current government whatever iteration it happens to be this week.

    • Psycho Milt 7.1
      22 March 2020 at 10:21 am

      …that is still less than 1 person in 1000 who has contracted it…

      Thus far. This is estimated likely to infect 40 to 70% of the population, and the Italian health system is overwhelmed with only the cases they have already. Please take this seriously.

    • Sabine 7.2
      22 March 2020 at 10:27 am

      Italy had 624 death yesterday. a nothing burger, to punish the current government yeah, right Tui.

      Oh, btw, this lung disease kills young people too. Just sayin.

      • Bearded Git 7.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 10:39 am

        Italy actually had 783 death's yesterday Sabine.

        Weirdly Germany has had only 31 deaths from 14,000 infections; Italy's death rate is 40 times that of Germany. This is explained in part by this interesting article:

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/guymartin/2020/03/20/with-its-covid-19-caseload-spiking-to-14000-heres-why-germanys-mortality-rate-is-002-or-4000-times-lower-than-italys/#25e5a3a877ad

        • bill 7.2.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 10:47 am

          This is underway in NZ as I type, right?

          Germany's hospitals are prepared in a really interesting, and good, way. Hotels are being cleared and set up as ersatz-hospitals for the less critically ill non-Covid-19 patients, which clears beds in extant hospitals for Covid-19 patients.

        • Foreign waka 7.2.1.2
          22 March 2020 at 12:45 pm

          BG, the primary reason for that is that Italy is a prime tourist destination and in some areas, such as Lombardy the reaction for isolation etc was not implemented or too late.

          You will not believe this, but in Salzburg Austria, which is in quarantine and all shops, restaurants etc are closed, buses wit tourists arrive. How is this possible? Nobody can answer this. Please accept that this is not a racist comment but the majority of tourists come from China where the virus first broke out.

          I think we need to be prepared for a similar scenario over 12 or more weeks. It takes discipline to see this through. I am not sure whether the god of money will let this happen so easily. The hoarders rampaging through supermarkets in the last couple of weeks are part of that. I feel that the current situation will show whether the human race is civilized. I wont hold my breath though.

      • The Al1en 7.2.2
        22 March 2020 at 10:39 am

        Yours and a couple of others relentless sour negativity is quite tiresome.

        I'd use an ignore user feature if this site had one.

        • Sabine 7.2.2.1
          22 March 2020 at 10:49 am

          dude, i am sorry for the negativity, but this a actual reality.

          so ignore me, feel free. But don't deny reality. Look at it, because 624 people died yesterday in Italy, bringing the death toll of this disease in 1 MONTH to over 4000.

          that.is.reality.

          not pessimism.

          Reality.

          • The Al1en 7.2.2.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 11:03 am

            It's not an aversion to reality, most people here seem to have a strong grip on the handle of the mad/sane door, it's you losing the plot in a very public way, because you aren't getting what you want from the government, and for a week where one can set a watch by it, predictable as it is.

            It may be cathartic for you to express your right to free speech in such an ignorant and depressing manner, but it can't be helping much as there appears to be no end to the daily spews.

            [Pack it in with the abuse and bullshit labeling – this is a forum for people to express their thoughts, concerns and opinions.] -B

          • Adrian 7.2.2.1.2
            22 March 2020 at 11:31 am

            Only a tiny percentage and only if they have other compromising conditions.

            • Psycho Milt 7.2.2.1.2.1
              22 March 2020 at 4:12 pm

              Tiny percentage of a very large number is still a large number, and in this case still quite capable of overwhelming a country's health system.

          • Bearded Git 7.2.2.1.3
            22 March 2020 at 2:17 pm

            783 Sabine

      • Incognito 7.2.3
        22 March 2020 at 10:56 am

        Here are some facts about age and COVID-19: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

        I believe the Italian stats are even more heavily skewed towards old age but this might be because they’re ‘ahead of the curve’.

    • joe90 7.3
      22 March 2020 at 1:00 pm

      Lets stop panicking our children, the vulnerable and of course the stupid 'preppers '.

      My sister's two teenagers are scared shitless that the ICU their mother works in will be red zoned.

      But accurate and timely public health messaging should be tempered because bad thoughts?

      • McFlock 7.3.1
        22 March 2020 at 3:22 pm

        Well, bad thoughts, hoarding, and occasionaly mob violence.

        There's a balance that needs to be had between the "it's not so bad, only .2% mortality rate" (which is still thousands of dead if half nz gets it, even if accurate) and the sort of messaging that empties supermarkets not because of any shortages but because the markets literally can't restock their shelves quickly enough.

        Too far one way, people set up illegal roadblocks (and the next step is to arm the roadblock guards with firearms). Too far the other, the govt does fuckall then has to go straight to level 3 or 4 because they realise how badly they fucked up (UK).

  9. pat 9
    22 March 2020 at 11:55 am

    A rock and a hard place

    Dr Baker's call for lockdown and testing makes much sense in the immediate …

    "Baker, a professor at Otago University's Department of Public Health, wants "very intense social distancing for a period, maybe two to four weeks, while we're ramping up testing and then do a lot of testing and once the testing's done then we'll feel much more comfortable that we've got it under control".

    "It's extremely inconvenient to do this but the alternative is we follow everywhere else in the world, excluding parts of Asia, towards a certain future of widespread transmission."

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/21/1094258/the-case-for-lockdown-now

    However what occurs when those two/four weeks are up and we have expended our current testing capacity?…and will we be able to obtain more of these resources in the world of rampant demand?

    "Already, experts say, our testing regime risks being overwhelmed. In comment provided through the Science Media Centre, University of Otago Associate Professor James Ussher, Labtests director Gary McAuliffe and Canterbury DHB Dr Joshua Freeman say "diagnostic labs are really struggling to maintain testing capacity due to supply chain issues, which will be ongoing, as they are worldwide".

    Bloomfield said on Wednesday there were 30,000 swab tests in the country for Covid-19."

    At current testing rates (the past couple of days increased level) those kits will be used in 20 days and this pandemic is widely expected to run for months /years.

    The politicians are earning their money with this one

  10. RedLogix 10
    22 March 2020 at 12:01 pm

    I saw this last night and it made me so despairing (and I use that word sparingly) that at the moment I could not bring myself to safely repost it:

    A photograph of an elderly woman “in tears” in front of empty shelves in a Melbourne supermarket has demonstrated the heartbreaking consequences of people's panic buying behaviour.

    The picture was taken at midday on Thursday in the canned food aisle of the Port Melbourne Coles by Nine News journalist Seb Costello.

    “This captures who is suffering from the me-first, unnecessary, trend of panic buying,” he wrote in a post shared to Twitter.

    Time to name it for what it is … hoarding.

    • Wensleydale 10.1
      22 March 2020 at 12:45 pm

      I understand people are afraid, but they're also self-absorbed shitheads. Cut it out, New Zealand. It's not funny. What if that was your Nana?

    • Cinny 10.2
      22 March 2020 at 12:55 pm

      And the only people who can afford to hoard food are the ones with money.

      People with no money often live day to day and shop day to day.

      Would be appropriate to see supermarkets open to gold card holders (with limits on products) for the first hour of every day (would be super clean then too), the next hour for community service card holders and then everyone else.

      • CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) 10.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 1:01 pm

        Exactly. RNZ checkpoint interviewed some people at a supermarket. One woman, sounded like probably in her 40s, said she'd bought enough supplies to last for 6 weeks. You need the money, and a big freezer and pantry to store that amount of stuff.

        The woman sounded quite matter of fact, and didn't seem to have any shame about such bulk buying.

      • Bill 10.2.2
        22 March 2020 at 2:42 pm

        That dedicated shopping time is already being offered by UK supermarkets.

        I'd suggest a further step, and close shop for the purpose of restocking shelves. If the people who restock fall over….and (though I hate the damned things) go 100% self service and have the checkout staff redirected to shelf stocking too.

      • Janet 10.2.3
        22 March 2020 at 3:20 pm

        I live well out of town and shop every fortnight … It would not be great to come in and find I am short supplied by product limiting. You will have to re think the "rules" for limiting to make it possible for me to buy my groceries in one trip to town. .

        • Carolyn_Nth 10.2.3.1
          22 March 2020 at 3:33 pm

          Also, it seems to me that product limiting is per supermarket visit. So, what's to stop someone returning an hour later and buying more of the limited item; or 2 or more people from the same household each buying to the product limit at the same time?

          • Janet 10.2.3.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 4:14 pm

            When I come into town there is usually other things needed for the farm etc so I don,t want to have to return several times on the same day to get around product limitation, but yes, good idea take someone else along with me to pick up another ration of the limited stuff I need to fill my two weekly shopping list.

      • Treetop 10.2.4
        22 March 2020 at 4:57 pm

        Where would you put the immune compromised shoppers?

        I realise it is best for this group to stay home.

        I would like more health information for some conditions in particular autoimmune disorders. I am not sure if this is immune compromised as often it is when the immune disorder is active when you feel the most unwell. The full blood count can jump around a bit.

    • I Feel Love 10.3
      22 March 2020 at 12:59 pm

      Yes, preppers = hoarders.

    • Ad 10.4
      22 March 2020 at 1:04 pm

      It's a pretty accurate metaphor for the total wealth and property disparity of New Zealand:

      – housing hoarding

      – savings hoarding

      – disposable income for healthcare

      – life one payday away from crisis

      – business ownership of more than $1m equity

      It's simply that this specific crisis has unmasked our total crisis in inequality and poverty

      • RedLogix 10.4.1
        22 March 2020 at 1:16 pm

        Yes. I would express the same sentiment but framed from a slightly different angle; wealth itself is not the problem (after all who exactly is for poverty), but the irresponsible use of it.

        • KJT 10.4.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 3:38 pm

          Too much wealth in too few hands, is the problem.

          Simple arithmetic, when resources have finite constraints.

          For a few to have way to much, it is necessary for many to have way too little.

          Not political, just basic subtraction.

          As recent events have graphically illustrated.

    • Anne 10.5
      22 March 2020 at 1:07 pm

      Thursday midday I walked around with an empty trolley. No bread left. Almost no meat/chicken and other essential commodities. As I walked out… handed my empty trolley back to the manageress on duty… told her what I thought of the selfish shoppers coming in early and taking everything so that older and often disabled people missed out… asked that they start to ration out essential items. She told me she would be in touch with Countdown management.

      That evening Countdown announced it would ration out essential products… open an hour early to re-stock all the shelves and close an hour early. I'm sure I was not the only upset customer around the country, and I can't thank the staff enough for how splendidly they have responded to the situation. They deserve a medal when this is over.

      • RedLogix 10.5.1
        22 March 2020 at 1:22 pm

        Good story, the supermarket staff must hate this more than any of us.

        Supermarket management in NZ have been rather slow in getting on top of this. Here in Brisbane many of the big operators like Coles now have police or security staff at the checkouts to enforce limits.

        But without clear rules it's hard to enforce; and no-one is going to like it when the govt is forced to act.

        • I Feel Love 10.5.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 1:59 pm

          Security in supermarkets, who would have thought, but my kids mum was abused and threatened with physical assault while waiting in line, for standing "too close" to someone. My hope is the hoarders spend the next few weeks away from the supermarkets, as they have got their food, and leave the rest of us who are just shopping normally, in peace.

          • Robert Guyton 10.5.1.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 2:03 pm

            "My hope is the hoarders spend the next few weeks away from the supermarkets, as they have got their food, and leave the rest of us who are just shopping normally, in peace. "

            Good thinking, IFL

      • Treetop 10.5.2
        22 March 2020 at 5:05 pm

        The most greedy supermarket shoppers, would shop in numbers from the same home and have a trolley each.

    • weka 10.6
      22 March 2020 at 1:36 pm

      Red, it's an important thing you raise. I hope this ok, but I removed the photo. I think the woman deserves her privacy. It's also going to be too hard to look at for many people who are already overwhelmed.

      Hoping we can use this sad story to prompt discussion about actions people can take to stop people being left like this.

    • AB 10.7
      22 March 2020 at 1:42 pm

      This is where the 40-year long propaganda onslaught about people 'naturally' being "rational self-maximisers" leaves us – old ladies weeping in deserted aisles. Can we exhume Milton Friedman's corpse and stick his skull on a pike?

    • KJT 10.8
      22 March 2020 at 3:24 pm

      Well. If you expect over 70’s to self isolate for weeks, and others for two weeks, buying up in advance is not necessarily, selfish. It is necessary for many. One of Our local supermarkets has stopped online orders for a week, to catch up.

      With little kids and elderly relatives at home, we are trying to keep two weeks ahead for 7 people, without buying too much at once. But then, we need to limit the amount of times we go shopping, as we don’t want to expose them to more than necessary.
      Then there are elderly neighbours
      we are offering to shop for, as well?

      • RedLogix 10.8.1
        22 March 2020 at 4:07 pm

        It's my understanding that only a small minority of people are in self-iso at present. Even if they all shopped up for two weeks I can't imagine their small numbers would strip supermarket shelves bare. And if you do need to shop in bulk for legit reasons, it might be a good idea to take some documentation to support this, otherwise everyone just turns up claiming they're shopping for 16 kids and a street full of relies.

        If we wait for govt to act, it will be ration cards and all that comes with that.

        What we are seeing is the end game of a society that has demanded nothing by 'rights' for generations. Which while these are fine and good things, every 'right' comes with an complementary obligation on someone else. We've allowed our conversation about 'responsibilities' to lag very far behind, and now we pay the price.

        About 39 years ago, at a time and place pivotal in my life, I asked a question about the purpose of what we were doing, and the answer was "We are a people of duty". I thought it a bit dull at the time, but with time I understand it more and more.

        • Ad 10.8.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 4:36 pm

          That basic social contract from a citizen to the states of Australia or of New Zealand doesn't get pulled up with such a forceful tug too often. The most we rise to it usually is win a decent flood and we're all implored to pile up the sandbags together which then get reported n the TV news with warm bromides about community spirit.

          We haven't had that called upon on a national scale in living memory – perhaps for those in their mid 80s who can still recall World War 2. That rules out 85% of us with no such understanding of deep social contract.

          While we are figuring out what this new all-powerful all-subsidising state looks like, we have to address this spectacular growth in our state dependence is only possible because citizens will in future pay taxes to service the whole of the debt getting piled up.

          That's a great moment for a new generation to write that societal contract anew.

          • RedLogix 10.8.1.1.1
            22 March 2020 at 4:53 pm

            That's a great moment for a new generation to write that societal contract anew.

            Yes, but they will have to rediscover the words necessary to such a task.

        • KJT 10.8.1.2
          22 March 2020 at 4:47 pm

          Obviously there are people hoarding, who shouldn’t be.

          Often the same people who already have too much, and could easily afford deliveries and inflated prices.

          But. Expecting poor people to honour a “social contract” when they have experienced rich people dumping on them their entire lives, is a bit much.
          Why do you expect them not to grab what they need ASAP, before it is priced out of reach, after the example of the well off, “there is no such thing as society” for the last 35 years. Expecting prices to rise beyound their reach, and the wealthy to grab everything, simply coincides with their lived experience for most of their lives.
          After telling everyone for decades the greedy are superior people, you expect social cohesion?

          • RedLogix 10.8.1.2.1
            22 March 2020 at 4:57 pm

            Expecting poor people to honour a “social contract” when they have experienced rich people dumping on them their entire lives, is a bit much.

            Indeed. I wrote to that exact point; the rich do indeed have a responsibility to use their wealth wisely.

            As do the poor have a similar responsibility to use their time, talents and energy wisely.

            The two come as a package, by all means demand the former, but the left is rather prone to making excuses around the latter.

            • KJT 10.8.1.2.1.1
              22 March 2020 at 6:09 pm

              And the right persists on having expectations of responsibility on poor people’s part, which would never be expected, of rich people.

              There are reasons! Not excuses, why poor people cannot use their time and talents wisely. Being too hungry to learn at school is just one. Which I’ve seen, way too often.

              Read up on the many research articles about what being poor and stressed, does to cognitive ability.

  11. CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) 11
    22 March 2020 at 12:18 pm

    I can't remember my login/password for TS. Everything I've tried I get a temporary lockout.

    • Incognito 11.1
      22 March 2020 at 12:35 pm

      I think weka knows how to reset your password. I could try but better to leave to a safe pair of hands 😉

  12. Foreign waka 12
    22 March 2020 at 12:49 pm

    It should not be allowed. Its uncivilized and inhuman.

  13. The Al1en 13
    22 March 2020 at 1:17 pm

    Anyone care to give an idiots guide to the wage subsidies?

    After hearing from a couple of business owners how they got money from the government, my boss is now toying with the idea of applying. The business will suffer a drop in revenue after the ban on gatherings of 100 or more, so will qualify on that basis. How does that affect me as an employee? Do I get made redundant? How do I get paid, through her or someone else? Do I have to sign on? etc. I only work 24pw, but that is classed as full time, do I receive the full subsidy of $585 (more than I get now) per worker or my regular wage? or does my boss get the full amount, pay my wages as usual, and get to keep anything extra if given by the government?

    With level two here, I am, as an immune deficient diabetic, asked to stay at home like 70+ seniors, so what are my options regarding employment? It's a very confusing time to decide, or even know, the best course of action.

    As an aside, my employer told me that with the minimum wage, I'll have to lose an hour per week to cover the raise. 🙄

    • Sabine 13.1
      22 March 2020 at 1:31 pm

      Your boss can apply for wage subsidies for all of his staff that are on a regular wage.

      Shit out of luck are self employed, gig'ers, etc that are on irregular income or are doing a draw out once a year.

      But your boss should do this – if he can prove that he has had losses of at least 30%, he can revceive a subsidy for you for up to twelve weeks – this is my understanding – and this be a non refundable aid. it wont' be your full salary if you are above min wage as it only covers min wage. In saying that those that can apply for it should.

      • The Al1en 13.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 2:03 pm

        Thanks @Pat. On the phone now, but not really wanting to tie up the line for people with more pressing needs.

        I did find that there is an isolation subsidy called the Leave Payment.

        The COVID-19 leave payment will be paid at a flat rate of:

        $585.80 to a person working 20 hours or more per week
        $350.00 to a person working less than 20 hours per week.
        Employers receiving the payment for employees who are required to self-isolate can receive it for 14 days. As people may be required to self-isolate more than once, employers will be able to apply for this on an ‘as needed’ basis. It can be paid for the entire period an employee is sick (or looking after a dependent person who is sick) with COVID-19 but the employer must apply every 14 days.

        https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/products/a-z-benefits/covid-19-support.html#null

        My question is do 70s and immune affected people meet the requirement when told to stay at home as they are in the level 2 alert.

        • pat 13.2.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 2:47 pm

          had wondered the same thing but more in line with level 3 and 4

        • weka 13.2.1.2
          22 March 2020 at 2:53 pm

          Thanks, good to have solid information.

          Your last question is important, I'm guessing there will be more info available this week. But on the face of it the MoH guidelines are not yet including people who are being told to stay home from yesterday (which isn't a self-isolation but a recommendation).

          https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-novel-coronavirus-health-advice-general-public/covid-19-self-isolation#who

          • The Al1en 13.2.1.2.1
            22 March 2020 at 3:08 pm

            @Pat and @weka

            Just got off the winz hotline and still none the wiser, really, but thanked the operator from all of us anyway.

            The way I see it is stay at home means just that, and even though I wasn't told I was eligible or not, to do that, the leave scheme is my only option other than quitting. Advice to talk to my boss about it is okay, but I know she'll expect me to work so she can get the in work payment and get my labour for free.

            I guess it comes down to whether being told to stay at home trumps being told to go to work.

            I am scheduled for a call from a nurse when they're free, though, for some reason I didn't quite catch why.

            • The Al1en 13.2.1.2.1.1
              22 March 2020 at 3:19 pm

              I will ask for her to apply for the leave scheme on a recurring basis until the alert advice has been removed, what happens from there is then her call. She will say I work alone and only have contact with her in the mornings and minimal to others, but she is still working (over 70 and a health risk) in a retail environment, and I work in all weathers, at high risk of seasonal weather and resulting sickness, weakening my system exponentially. All right in the sun, the wind and rain, not so much.

            • The Al1en 13.2.1.2.1.2
              22 March 2020 at 6:53 pm

              The nurse just rang me back and said I should tell my boss I've been advised to ask for her to apply for the leave scheme. If she doesn't comply, I'm to call MSD and let them know.

    • McFlock 13.3
      22 March 2020 at 3:42 pm

      Don't know the details, but I do know an org that had a decent payment from govt in a few days of applying, so no interruption to payroll. Didn't seem to be too hard and took a chunk of stress away.

      • The Al1en 13.3.1
        22 March 2020 at 3:54 pm

        I had to work at a wedding yesterday, 75 people, one pm through after midnight, and a couple of guests told my boss how easy and quick it was to get the wage subsidy, so I can see why she's fully on board now, even if she wasn't when I told her about it last week.

        If I weren't deemed higher risk, I'd be more than thankful for the 90 days job security – great initiative, but I'm not sure, with the alert advice, it's in my best interest long term.

  15. Sabine 15
    22 March 2020 at 1:39 pm

    Italy.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/italy-to-close-down-all-productive-activity-except-for-indispensable-factories/

    taly on Saturday shut all non-essential factories after recording another record coronavirus toll that brought its fatalities to 4,825 — over a third of the world’s total and a grim reminder that the pandemic remains out of control.

    “The decision taken by the government is to close down all productive activity throughout the territory that is not strictly necessary, crucial, indispensable, to guarantee us essential goods and services,” Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said in a dramatic late-night TV address.

    The 55-year-old Italian leader stressed that groceries and pharmacies would remain open and did not spell out what “indispensable” companies were.

  16. Incognito 16
    22 March 2020 at 1:43 pm

    This ad really pissed me off! On Stuff, an ad for debt consolidation loans and a limited time offer of 12.99% p.a. on new loans of $20k or more. Under the circumstances, I’d call this unethical advertising. For obvious reasons, no link here 🙁

    • Sabine 16.1
      22 March 2020 at 1:47 pm

      i got an email from the bank – i don't have any loans what so ever on my business – that they happily would lend me money for buisness continuency at a 1% discount. These fuckers just got money for free and they have the gall to do that.

      In saying that, the government did nothing to prevent that either. Its not 'unethical advertising, its about the sum many small businesses like mine – businesses thad are not debt laden – to make it over then next 6 month i.e. cover leases, rates, building insurances, electricity, water. Overheads. For most of us that would be largly enough. We could shut, stay at home, and when life is going back to a new normal maybe pick up where we left.

      it would allow us to pay creditors, most whom are local businesses – packaging, printing, web hosting, etc etc – and again it would help the landlords that have mortgages to service to continue to service their mortgages.

      But as the Convid-19 bail out plan said as per the Spin Off, we are to talk to our 'financial advisors' or to our banks and when w have exhausted all of our means we can apply with Winz and be beneficiaries.

      So don't blame the banks. They are doing what they were told to do by our Government.

      • Incognito 16.1.1
        22 March 2020 at 2:44 pm

        Yes, I received a courtesy e-mail from my bank too. However, the ad is not for/from a bank but from a moneylender charging an eye-watering interest rate. People and businesses (SMEs) are struggling financially and it will get worse but they should not become easy prey for and fall victim to unscrupulous lenders. If I was ‘blaming’ anybody or anything, I was blaming Stuff for placing the ad.

        • Sabine 16.1.1.1
          22 March 2020 at 3:30 pm

          bank, money lender, loan shark….its all the same.

          everyone has bills to pay, stuff has, i have, the businesses in my town have. today i made enough moeny to pay one of my creidtors. Yei fucking me.

          nevermind, that i and everyone else should be at home, trying to deprive the virus of hosts. Yet, here we go work, as the government can't be bothered to either by emergency degeree to stop predatory lending – and this is what i consider it, predatory, as most of us not on the government tit have no way of paying any loans back any time soon, or be prepared to offer no interst loans to us that we can start paying back once we have a new normal that allows people to work.

          Stuff, has bills to pay so they allow for the ads that are paid for. I have bills to pay so I go to work – potentially getting infected myself, potentially infecting others, and it is just a shit show.

          In the meantime, i have gone through liters of santizers, santizing down eftpos terminal, benches, shop surfaces after every single customer, the hand sanitzer by the door is slowly but surly coming to an end, delivering, taking online orders, hoping every day to just make enough to just pay one more bill. (And i have been doing that since February).

          I am done putting the blame on capitalism, banks and so on and so forth, we have a government that can and should regulate, can and should use emergency decrees, can and should send checks to everyone, and i mean everyone, so that we are not going to have a country full of homeless, highly indebted people who will never ever be able to get themselves out of it.

          And so far all i am hearing is crickets.

  17. Whispering Kate 17
    22 March 2020 at 1:49 pm

    I am wondering if the supermarket will finally give the vulnerable and over 70's a designated hour for shopping to protect them from possible infected other shoppers. The supermarkets are frenetic at the moment and in our particular area there doesn't seem to be any door control on keeping numbers down in the shop at any one time like clubs do with bouncers.

    I have a daughter in the US and she said her partner aged 62 is shopping at a designated time in their Baltimore supermarket and she can't understand why this hasn't been implemented here. Hopefully this will come in and for front line staff and emergency workers who are so stressed right now. Right from the beginning a method of rationing should have been put in place. Two of everything in the long life section. It should have been policed hard and still should be in place. Leaving it to the goodwill of people is an exercise doomed to failure. People need to be instructed and steered in the right direction like road rules etc.

    Now we over 70's have been obliged to isolate it is going to be even worse for food shopping. The click and collect and home deliveries will not be able to cover everybody so are we now going to be named and shamed if we dare to go out once a fortnight to stock up the pantry??

    Meanwhile everybody look out for each other on this rocky ride ahead.

    • CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) 17.1
      22 March 2020 at 1:59 pm

      Yep. The home deliveries also need to be expanded, but that means more staff at supermarkets. And the cost of home deliveries will be too much for some seniors.

      Younger bulk buying hoarders should hang their heads in shame. This has resulted in the restricted hours, which makes physical distancing harder.

    • I Feel Love 17.2
      22 March 2020 at 2:09 pm

      "Leaving it to the goodwill of people" is a fine idea, but now it's proved a failure, it's time to impose rules. Funny you mention road rules, every time I drive I see people flout them, so maybe not a great analogy. As far as supermarkets and what you think they should do, ring the supermarket, email the company, don't wait for the govt, if people hassle the supermarkets enough they will do something.

      • CarolynS (@Carolyn_nth) 17.2.1
        22 March 2020 at 2:22 pm

        I've sent 2 emails to Countdown – only supermarket in my area. First to ask them if they were going to expand their home delivery and PickUp options, and questioning the cost of deliveries now that 70yrs+ and health compromised people have been advised to stay at home.

        The 2nd was to complain that I tried to place an order for home delivery and couldn't make it work – turns out their instructions are not good enough. A blank time/day slot does not mean it's available, need to find a slot that has "available" printed in it. So it means there were no "available" slots yesterday when I tried to place an order.

    • Graeme 17.3
      22 March 2020 at 7:38 pm

      Our local P&S has a two of any item limit, enforced through the checkout, you try and scan three of one item and the red light comes on and it all stops. Evidently Countdown is the same. Stopped it all in it's tracks, shelves all as full as normal at 7 pm, and everyone relaxed.

      They are also trolling the hoarders by putting lines that have been panic bought on good specials in prominent places shortly afterwards. You've had to walk around half a dozen pallets piled high with loo paper for the last week, right inside the door on a good price. They are going down, slowly. Same thing with canned tomatoes.

  18. Observer Tokoroa 18
    22 March 2020 at 2:16 pm

    We the People

    We the People are meant to be lucky to have the strange words of little Heather de Plessis.

    But, She struggles and slides backwards so regularly, spraying female vitriol for all of us to trample upon.

    Fortunately, she seems to seek the warm loving advances of strange Simon Bridges.

    It causes Her and Simon to flop around trying to kick the brilliance out of Jacinda Ardern.

    Two backward Loosers

  19. mary_a 19
    22 March 2020 at 2:51 pm

    Saw a disturbing video in NZH this morning of a supermarket in Auckland earlier today (sorry can't find the article now to put up a link).

    When the doors opened by what seemed like security guards, a never ending, snaking line of panic buying shoppers entered, young, old and in between. It seemed to go on and on and on forever with people packed close together, creating an extremely dangerous environment for virus spread, going against everything we have been advised what to and what not to do in public areas!

    Ignorance, selfishness and greed to the extreme. I feel so ashamed to be part of the human race at times!

    • Carolyn_Nth 19.1
      22 March 2020 at 7:04 pm

      Henderson, Lincoln Rd, PaknSave.

      With queues of people not keeping 1 meter distance. Message is probably not getting through to many low income people and elderly. Some innovative communications required.

      People are probably just scared as they see other countries locking down.

  20. Janet 20
    22 March 2020 at 3:06 pm

    I think it is a primeval urge surfacing in times like these. Don,t be so surprised.

  21. joe90 21
    22 March 2020 at 3:28 pm

    And epidemics become pandemics.

    Prague, March 21 (CTK) – The data on the payment by bank cards assembled by the Czech technological group COVID19CZ last week have shown that 46 percent of returnees from Italy did not observe at least once the rules of the two-week quarantine, the server Seznam Zpravy said today.

    On March 6, the government imposed the quarantine on the returnees from holiday in Italy in order to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus infection.

    https://news.expats.cz/weekly-czech-news/46-of-czech-residents-returning-from-italy-did-not-obey-quarantine-says-data-from-bank-cards/

  22. halfcrown 22
    22 March 2020 at 3:35 pm

    For what it is worth, As we are in our seventies(in fact one in the eighties) My wife and I have started on an Excel spread sheet all our movements from last Wednesday when we had to go down to the "Why you're up her" We have isolated ourselves as Ardern has requested since yesterday (Sat 21st)

    Simple to do as we have used our EFTPOS card and all the receipts give times and dates of any transaction and names of people who we have had dealings with. We have also listed others we know who we have come into contact with. If the worse comes to the worse our movements date & time are recorded and hopefully it will help to track others.

  23. Robert Guyton 23
    22 March 2020 at 3:49 pm

    "Remove shopping trolleys. Could work? Carry or Baskets only."

    Elegantly funny and appropriate, I reckon.

  24. joe90 24
    22 March 2020 at 4:45 pm

    Nothing quite like the power to indefinitely detain your opponents without trial to make your problems go away.

    The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the coronavirus spreads through the United States.

    […]

    The proposal would also grant those top judges broad authority to pause court proceedings during emergencies. It would apply to “any statutes or rules of procedure otherwise affecting pre-arrest, post-arrest, pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedures in criminal and juvenile proceedings and all civil process and proceedings,” according to draft legislative language the department shared with Congress. In making the case for the change, the DOJ document wrote that individual judges can currently pause proceedings during emergencies, but that their proposal would make sure all judges in any particular district could handle emergencies “in a consistent manner.”

    The request raised eyebrows because of its potential implications for habeas corpus –– the constitutional right to appear before a judge after arrest and seek release.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023

  25. Treetop 25
    22 March 2020 at 5:18 pm

    I would like to think that there is always food to eat in NZ. It might not be what you usually eat proportion wise for the duration of a pandemic.

    There might come a time when there is a fresh outside market selling fruit and vegetables in every supermarket carpark as a temporary measure.

    Some orchards might open up their orchard to the public.

  26. adam 26
    22 March 2020 at 5:29 pm

    Funny, in the past socialists had a global brotherhood thing going on – care and regard for working people across the globe.

    Not anymore I guess.



  27. McFlock 27
    22 March 2020 at 5:57 pm

    In good news, that Samoan case of suspected covid-19 came back negative.

    Lot's of relieved folk there, I bet.

  28. joe90 28
    22 March 2020 at 6:12 pm

    tRump's fuckwittery circles the globe.

    The Lagos State Government has warned against the unprescribed use of Chloroquine, an antimalarial drug, as preventive or curative drug against the Coronavirus disease.

    The warning is coming following the announcement of the United States President, Donald Trump, that the drug can now be used to treat Coronavirus.

    The announcement has been countered by the country’s Food and Drug Administration, which said it had not approved the use of the drug for treatment against Coronavirus.

    The Lagos State Commissioner for Health, Akin Abayomi, warned residents to avoid consumption of Chloroquine without prescription, noting that it could cause more harm than good to their health.

    Governor Babajide Sanwo-Olu during a live broadcast also cautioned residents against panic-buying of Chloroquine drugs, foodstuff and other household items.

    http://saharareporters.com/2020/03/21/chloroquine-can-cause-more-harm-good-lagos-warns-residents

  29. joe90 29
    22 March 2020 at 6:31 pm

    Poots lying? Nah….

    Russia, which has a population of 144 million, has reported just 199 coronavirus cases and some doctors have questioned how far the official data reflects reality, given what they say is the patchy nature and quality of testing.

    A sharp spike in pneumonia cases in Moscow, Russia’s biggest transport hub and a city with a population of around 13 million, has further raised doubts.

    “I have a feeling they (the authorities) are lying to us,” said Anastasia Vasilyeva, head of Russia’s Doctor’s Alliance trade union.

    The government says its statistics are accurate however, and President Vladimir Putin has complained that Russia is being targeted by fake news to sow panic.

    The number of cases of pneumonia, which can be caused by coronavirus, increased by 37 percent in Moscow year-on-year in January, according to Rosstat, Russia’s statistics agency.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coronavirus-health-russia-idUSKBN216305

  30. Carolyn_Nth 30
    22 March 2020 at 7:10 pm

    I was looking for something like this earlier today.

    RNZ reports:

    The free to use online farmers market called Maker2U fast tracked to launch this week, in order to connect people and small businesses.

    It does not seem to have got off the ground that much yet. they are asking small businesses to use their online ordering & their own home delivery services

    Maker2U about web page

    I'm gonna sign up as a buyer and see if there's any small stores near me doing home deliveries.

  31. joe90 31
    22 March 2020 at 7:33 pm

    My asthmatic SO has received the work from home order. The IT knobs are arranging for some kit to be delivered, I've sorted a click and pick up grocery account, on the cusp of being at risk myself, and that's it, we're both home for the foreseeable.

  32. Adam Ash 32
    22 March 2020 at 7:42 pm

    I see over 3000 health professionals have begged the government to go to level 4 immediately. Seems sensible to me.

    Btw, I cannot believe that Queenstown has few cases. Bars cafes thousands of folk in close contact with a very high tourist content. Not a living brain cell among the lot if them. It seems beyond belief that random tests are not being done there. The place should be shut down IMHO.

  33. Robert Guyton 33
    22 March 2020 at 7:48 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120481673/coronavirus-shane-jones-says-now-is-not-the-time-to-regulate-freshwater

    "Now is not the time to regulate fresh water" – Shane Jones

    Disaster capitalism, right here, right now.

  34. Morrissey 34
    22 March 2020 at 7:53 pm

    Letter to Prime Mininster Jacinda Ardern

    COVID-19 AND GAZA

    22 March 2020

    [deleted]

    COVID-19 AND GAZA

    The more than two million people living in the blockaded Gaza strip in Palestine are being left to face the Coronavirus with hopelessly inadequate medical facilities and extreme overcrowding – conditions in which the virus will spread rapidly and devastatingly unless action is taken now.

    The usual medical and public policy advice to Palestinians cannot hope to deal with this terrifying scenario. Health officials warn that if the virus enters Gaza, containment and treatment under the Israeli blockade will be nearly impossible.

    Gaza’s hospitals are already unable to cope with “normal” medical situations. In March last year the United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator for the occupied Palestinian territory, Mr. Jamie McGoldrick, reported on Gaza’s "chronic power outages, gaps in critical services, including mental health and psychosocial support, and shortages of essential medicines and supplies."

    In similar vein the Israeli human rights organisation B’Tselem has reported that, even before coronavirus, Gaza’s barely functioning hospitals are dealing with the fallout from thousands of injuries which have resulted from murderous Israeli sniper fire on demonstrators in the ”Great March of Return” protests on the Gaza side of the security fence.

    97% of all Gaza’s water is not fit to drink and Gazan hospitals don’t have enough clean water even for medical staff to wash safely. Simply calling on people to wash their hands regularly and keep social distances is a recipe for an unmitigated human catastrophe.

    The situation is little better in the occupied Palestinian territories of the West Bank where, as a result of Israeli’s brutal military occupation, medical facilities are also inadequate with serious shortages of basic medical equipment, trained personnel and essential medical supplies.

    The looming human catastrophe is clear. When medically well supplied countries like Italy and South Korea have struggled to contain the virus there is no way the hospitals in Gaza or the occupied Palestinian territories will be able to cope.

    Each year New Zealand votes at the United Nations for the end of Israel’s military occupation of the West Bank and blockade of Gaza.

    It’s now critical for the government to back up those votes with effective political action. We urge you to put the welfare of Palestinians alongside concern for New Zealanders and speak out calling for Israel to end its blockade of Gaza and military occupation of the Palestinian territories and allow Palestinians to access the medical supplies and equipment they need to deal with this crisis.

    [deleted]

    https://www.psna.nz/petition

    • weka 34.1
      22 March 2020 at 8:50 pm

      you know better than to do long cut and pastes. Next time I'll delete a lot more if the work if editing is left up to me.

  35. Sabine 35
    22 March 2020 at 7:59 pm

    maybe we can do what El Salvador did

    https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/el-salvador-to-offer-relief-for-those-hit-by-coronavirus

    SAN SALVADOR — El Salvador will take steps to limit the economic impact for people and businesses affected by the coronavirus outbreak, including suspending charges for some services, the government said on Wednesday.

    Salvadoran authorities have yet to detect any cases there, but the impoverished Central American country has closed its borders and is in a state of near lockdown as it attempts to prevent the virus from entering.

    Finance Minister Nelson Fuentes told a news conference the measures would only apply to people or businesses affected by the outbreak, which has pummeled financial markets and upended life around the globe.

    For a three-month period, affected parties will be exempt from payments for electricity, water, mortgages and personal loans, credit cards, telephones, cable and internet, among other services, Fuentes said.

    Once the three months are up, payment of the charges accrued will be spread over two years, without risk of default or damage to creditworthiness. Nor will they face interest charges.

  36. joe90 36
    22 March 2020 at 8:11 pm

    And idiots thought a tRump presidency would put an end to neocon PNAC aspirations.

    https://twitter.com/pkmacdonald/status/1241348720278503424

  37. David Mac 37
    22 March 2020 at 8:20 pm

    Just put new rubber on the mobility scooter, Satire Radials.

    Cervecería Modelo are not going to call their new brew Blonde or Pilsener, it'll be Corona Viris. As brand awareness goes, to date, Cervecería Modelo have received 4 trillion dollars worth of free global advertising before they even launch their new bottle with the 'Lick Test' label.

  39. Poission 39
    22 March 2020 at 8:29 pm

    Should we use international law academics for mandatory Covid 19 vaccine testing?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30373-1/fulltext