Open mike 22/08/2023

49 comments on “Open mike 22/08/2023 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   22 August 2023 at 7:02 am

   Labour had better wake up pronto – insipid and visionless policies that tinker around the edges are not going to win them the election. They owe their supporters a better effort than that.
   • Peter 1.1

     22 August 2023 at 8:15 am

     The problem with vaping has been a clear growing problem over years. Very shortly before the election, after six years in power, it gets the "We're taking this seriously, we're going to do something about it," treatment.

     It's all about perception.
     • Sanctuary 1.1.1

       22 August 2023 at 8:27 am

       But that is still faffing around the edges. They have to do something radical to get the phone back on the hook.

       Here is a couple of ideas they can still throw out there:

       A tax free income threshold of $10,000 and removing the tax exemption of churches – make them instead claim tax rebates based on their charity spending. That'd knock Peter Mortlocks and Bishop Brian's arse in and simultaneously show God's displeasure at prosperity doctrine by making them poorer in the realm of mammon.

       The money could then be used to partially offset the income threshold change. You couldn't think of a more classic case of "applied Christianity", to quote MJ Savage.
     • bwaghorn 1.1.2

       22 August 2023 at 12:16 pm

       It's all about perception.

       The perception is labour is playing whack a mole with national, it might be fun but it sure isn't impressing me!!
2. tsmithfield 2

   22 August 2023 at 7:44 am

   Of course, from my perspective, I am happy with the TVNZ poll last night.

   A couple of comments though:

   Firstly, I hope that Chippy keeps his job whatever the outcome of the election. I don't think he is the reason for Labour's position at the moment. He has had a nightmare ride thus far with all the discipline issues etc. I still think he is the best person for the role.

   Secondly, HDPA made an interesting comment last night about the rise of the extremes on both sides of the political perspective. She thought that voters are starting to see both of the main central parties as tweedle dum and tweedle dee, and if they want real change they need to move further in either direction.
   • Bearded Git 2.1

     22 August 2023 at 4:47 pm

     The Greens are not extremists…the vast majority of their policies are common sense.

     ACT on the other hand…..
     • bwaghorn 2.1.1

       22 August 2023 at 5:48 pm

       Putting people and planet ahead of profit is extreme in some eyes!!
3. Sanctuary 3

   22 August 2023 at 7:50 am

   [deleted]
   • Anne 3.1

     22 August 2023 at 2:31 pm

     
   • Higherstandard 3.2

     22 August 2023 at 10:09 pm

     Is the standard encouraging slander these days ?
   • weka 3.3

     22 August 2023 at 10:38 pm

     I don't know if that's a reasonable opinion, but please don't make potentially defamatory statements about public figures.
     • Anne 3.3.1

       22 August 2023 at 10:50 pm

       Well, I can't recall exactly what S said so am unable to confirm he said anything particularly defamatory, but the overall drift was right on the money.
       • higherstandard 3.3.1.1

         23 August 2023 at 3:45 pm

         So you approve of calling someone a racist on the basis of no evidence, simply because you don't like them……. noted.
         • SPC 3.3.1.1.1

           23 August 2023 at 4:04 pm

           So you approve of calling someone a racist on the basis of no evidence, simply because you don't like them……. noted.

           You have moved the goal-posts from not liking their politics, to something else.

           Back in the Cold War day, those who criticised US foreign policy were called anti-American, and those in the USA who criticised their lack of social justice were called fellow travellers with commies.

           Politicians are not above playing the race card.

           Brash tried Kiwi vs iwi and proposed removing the Maori electorates – when the issue of the day was foreshore and seabed claims of Maori. Yet Key's government enabled whanu ora, signing us up to UNDRIP and agreed with TPM on "no ownership of the foreshore and seabed" (undoing Labour's public domain) – allowing private land owners to deny access more easily.

           Now National foment concern about co-governance on water bodies and UNDRIP and oppose Maori Health and worse with ACT as partner.
4. SPC 4

   22 August 2023 at 8:35 am

   Zoe Hobbes just missed out on the World Championship final with 11.02, the 2 runners 8th and 9th (11.01) into the final.

   She was 4th in the fastest of the 3 semi-final heats – the winner Jackson was 2nd in the final, the 2nd placed Ta Lou was 4th in the final and the 3rd placed in her semi-final won the final (the three were the fastest in the semi-finals) – Shacarri Richardson in a very quick 9.65seconds.

   3rd in her semi-final, she was given lane 9. SR had a real slow start in her semi-final and came home much faster than Jackson. In the final she had a better start and as she was on the outside, they were only aware of her late run when it was over.

   Those with a VPN can watch it here

   https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/athletics/65740172

   Finals and semi-finals.
   • SPC 4.1

     22 August 2023 at 12:31 pm

     Zoe Hobbs, Jock not Thomas branch of the Hobbs/Hobbes dynasty.

     And its Sha’Carri Richardson (how do people get the apostrophe as part of their name?).
5. SPC 5

   22 August 2023 at 8:59 am

   Not just hundreds of South Asians also hundreds from South America – this will be thousands

   This is the latest in a string of alleged exploitation linked to the AEWV scheme described by INZ as a “higher trust model” that replaced six visa options a year ago.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/migrant-workers-claim-they-have-been-duped-into-believing-they-were-getting-jobs-and-a-better-kiwi-life/BVW7KEQFUNGSJAHSI45S44ZTKI/
   • Descendant Of Smith 5.1

     22 August 2023 at 12:43 pm

     Off twitter.

     Is Mariela Ehijo of the charity Abroad NZ the same person, Mariela Andrea EHIJO CONTRERAS listed as the sole director of BuildHub?
     Because if that is true then this is one horrible person. On one hand she is the CEO of a charity set up to help migrant workers, and on the other had she is the Director of BuildHub, the recruiting agency at the centre of alleged mass migrant exploitation. As a South American herself I cannot understand how she can treat these people so badly, people from her own continent that she ripped off with exorbitant fees and hollow promises of work, only to leave them destitute.

     If it's not the same person, then I apologize in advance for any offense caused.

     Looks like the Charity Abroad NZ is based at the same address as BuildHub.
     • Descendant Of Smith 5.1.1

       22 August 2023 at 12:59 pm

       Clip the ticket at both ends.

       Our History
       Abroad Global existed before as an immigration advisory firm that helped the migrant community for 7 years. Our decision to become a Charitable Trust was inspired by the large potential in the charity sector to help other non-for-profit organisations and the migrant section of the community.

       https://www.abroad-global.com/what-we-do
       • bwaghorn 5.1.1.1

         22 August 2023 at 5:50 pm

         Charitable Trust was inspired by the large potential in the charity sector

         Tax dodging all the way to the bank,
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.1.1.2

         22 August 2023 at 8:28 pm

         Mariela Ehijo is certainly represented in quite a number of charitable organisations. This one too…

         https://www.synergyadvisory.co.nz/charitable-sector
     • weka 5.1.2

       22 August 2023 at 10:54 pm

       please provide a link for your quote.
6. SPC 6

   22 August 2023 at 9:04 am

   I can’t help but laugh when I hear scaremongering about the Māori elite coming to take over the country.

   A nice reprise of the historic fear of Maori elites follows.

   The reason I can make this statement is because the same vitriol is not pointed at so-called white elites. There does not seem to be the antagonism to white people who can be considered part of the financial elite, the political elite, and the cultural elite.

   New Zealand’s 311 wealthiest families pay 8.8 per cent tax on their income compared to the 10.5 per cent paid by those on the minimum wage and there was only brief complaint about that from some left-leaning commentators.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/anaru-eketone-theres-a-lot-of-scaremongering-about-maori-elite-but-what-about-the-pakeha-elite/TQOJX5T4LFGGJPUUWPLQOL6WMA/
   • Molly 6.1

     22 August 2023 at 2:35 pm

     The article responds to concerns not currently raised, and redirects into a classic whataboutery to conclude.

     IF it is intended to alleviate some of the concerns re government policy and legislation, the author could at least attempt to describe some of those concerns accurately, and then address them.
7. SPC 7

   22 August 2023 at 10:02 am

   Criminalising peaceful protest against carbon corporates in Oz

   Criminalising cancelling carbon corporates in Aotearoa.

   Ms Penwarden was feeling gun-shy after having been convicted on fraud charges for sending a spoof letter pretending to be the organiser of a petroleum conference advising it was cancelled.

   It is incomprehensible any self-respecting industry hack would have accepted this document at face value, nor admitted to anyone that they’d been taken in by such an obvious lark.

   Parody is an act of free speech which, as a member of the Free Speech Union, I am committed to defending. And yet our police decided to devoted resources away from pursuing TikTok induced car thefts and persistent shoplifters to prosecute an irrepressible grandmother for trolling.

   Penwarden was convicted by a jury, which demonstrates that the human desire to supplicate to the whims of authority is a more powerful force than a willingness to apply our own moral compass.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300952877/damien-grant-freedom-to-speak-and-to-listen-are-rights-we-should-cherish
8. arkie 8

   22 August 2023 at 11:25 am

   Following on from my comment yesterday about the climate change impacts of the wealthy:

   Methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, is thought to be responsible for more than a quarter of global warming experienced to date. Controlling it is such an urgent priority that President Joe Biden recently hosted a “Methane Summit” at the White House.

   Most of the problem stems from just a few kinds of places: natural gas wells and pipelines, cattle feedlots, coal mines, rice paddies, and landfills. But occasionally, the scientists who hunt for large methane releases find them in surprising spots. Such was the case on June 4, when a plume of the gas was detected at the sprawling ranch in West Texas where billionaire Jeff Bezos tests space rockets.

   …

   Ironically, one of the growth drivers for the commercial space sector is launching satellites for environmental monitoring of pollutants, including methane.

   https://fortune.com/2023/08/21/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-rocket-tests-texas-emitting-methane-see-from-space-iss/

   This can be fixed but it needs politicians prepared to take inequality and climate change seriously, tax the rich, party vote Green.
   • Sanctuary 8.1

     22 August 2023 at 12:45 pm

     I was thinking about the Maui fires yesterday. Globally, fire weather seasons have increased in length by 27% since 1980.

     https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/07/climate-change-wildfire-risk-has-grown-nearly-everywhere-but-we-can-still-influence-where-and-how-fires-strike/

     Whilst increased rain in winter and spring is actually producing greater fire risks, because of warmer winters and wetter springs stimulating much greater growth in foliage.

     Once of the suspected causes of the fires in Maui was the failure of utility companies to cut power in high winds, causing arcing that sparked the conflagration.

     And I was thinking, could that happen here? Much of our urban development in the Waitakere Ranges is predicated on it never turning into a massive tinder box.

     Imagine this. Auckland, after nearly of year of constant rain thanks to La Nina, finally enters an El Nino phase. The rain stops in September, and a warm early spring and summer cause an explosion of plant growth. Vector, as usual, utterly neglect line maintenance in the Waitakere ranges.

     December and Xmas are gorgeous, green, luxuriant, blue skies and hot.

     By January, it hasn't rained for ten weeks and a glorious summer continues. Auckland is in a drought. Watercare is advising people to reduce use. In February a watering ban is introduced and a scandal around Watercare's failure to invest in storage infrastructure fills the MSM.

     In a blistering February, Aucklanders start to fondly recall the great deluge of the previous year. People grumble about the lack of rain, and magazines run stories on how to save grey water for the garden. Mike Hosking devotes hours of his show to calling people who are starting to warn of the fire danger alarmist killjoys who don’t like people having fun at the beach. The Waitakeres go from dark green, to deep shades of brown and yellow and to lighter shades of green.

     Summer stretches into March, temperatures remain in the mid twenties. The entire city is a tinderbox. An unseasonable, scorching high pressure system crosses the Tasman from the Australian deset bring record breaking temperatures and strong westerlies. Poorly maintained power lines cause a big scrub fire to break out above Piha. Attracted by the spectacle, a mentally disturbed arsonist decides this a good time to light a series of fires in the evening along the Upper Nihotupu Walkway. Within hours, a fire front stretching from Piha road to the Lower Nihotupu Dam Road is blazing, fanned by strong westerlies and tinder dry undergrowth. With little to no warning a huge fire sweeps down and destroys hundreds of homes along Scenic drive, and devastates Waiatarua. Firefighters can do nothing to stop it raging down West Coast Road and spreading down Forest Hill road. The next day, a firestorm erupts and the flames engulf Oratia, Laingholm and bite into Titirangi. By the time fire is contained, dozens of lives have been lost. Tens of thousands are evacuated, thousands lose everything, and hundreds of millions of dollars of damage has been done.

     Entirely possible, IMHO. And perhaps sooner than we think.
     • Adrian 8.1.1

       22 August 2023 at 1:38 pm

       I was in Lahaina 6 years ago in their mid summer and struck by the casual attitude to fire safety, with lots of bonfires and barbeques amongst the dried out scrub and a very large proportion of residents and visitors smoking and discarding still burning butts. There seems to be no fire restrictions or bans, probably because .. you know, FREEDOM.

       Big grass fires and sugar cane fires are common in Maui all exacerbated by the huge downhill winds in summer like the South Island east coast. It is a large island with apparently only 13 fire engines and a few available helicopters surprisingly. It is the opposite of here, the east coast is wet and the west is very dry.

       While there I made mention that the place, the west coast anyway, was ready made for a big devastating fire so therefore it was no surprise to me that the inevitable happened. Lahaina was a lovely old historic village and a loss but nowhere near as devastating as the loss of the people, some of whom we almost certainly met or stayed with.
       • aj 8.1.1.1

         22 August 2023 at 3:43 pm

         "Big grass fires and sugar cane fires are common in Maui all exacerbated by the huge downhill winds in summer like the South Island east coast"

         From:

         https://weatherwest.com/page/2

         Brief thoughts on the recent wildland-urban interface fire catastrophe on Maui

         . . . . As much as it might surprise some folks, the Hawaiian islands are no stranger to fire. Nearly all ignitions today are caused by human activities (though most are accidental). Wildfire risk is rising, especially on the dry sides of the islands (which, in some cases, receive an annual average precipitation similar to that of Los Angeles), due to a combination of unmanaged invasive grasses building up huge fuel loads on abandoned plantations and climate change–which is likely increasing the duration and severity of droughts on the lee sides of the islands and the intensity of wet-dry cycling of precipitation (which favors extra vegetation growth, and then rapid drying of that extra growth during high risk periods). Here, too, as in so many other places, subdivisions have been built and expanded that increasingly extend into high fire risk zones. In fact, in County of Maui planning documents, nearly all of Lahaina was characterized as being at high to extreme wildfire risk.
     • roblogic 8.1.2

       23 August 2023 at 9:48 am

       DOC commissioned a paper about controlled burnoffs in vulnerable areas – but NZ forests are evolved for a damp temperate climate, not extended droughts common in Australia and California.

       "Since only the kiss of flame is needed to rouse dormant seeds from decadeslong sleep, is it not strange that botanists do not turn arsonists on occasion that some floral phoenix might arise from the ashes?" (John Thomas Howell).
9. joe90 9

   22 August 2023 at 12:35 pm

   Nothing to confirm this, yet.

   H I Sutton

   @CovertShores

   ***UPDATE*** Reports that a #Chinese Navy (PLAN) submarine, apparently a nuclear powered Type-093 Shang Class boat, has suffered a serious accident in the vicinity of the Taiwan Strait This is currently *unconfirmed*, treat with great caution. Been hearing it for a few hours.

   […]

   @CovertShores

   Reports suggest all crew died. If so, RIP. However, again, caution that currently no evidence. And some reporting is less credible. But important to listen for more More info on this class of submarine http://hisutton.com/Chinese-Navy-T

   […]

   @CovertShores

   ·Should add, one thing which makes me doubt some of the accounts is that they have too much information, like crew dying, type of boat etc. However, that doesn't invalidate the underlying story. But waiting for more info, ideally credible sources (I may have missed some)

   https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1693742634244710455

   http://www.hisutton.com/Chinese-Navy-Type-093-Shang-Class-Submarine.html
   • Sanctuary 9.1

     22 August 2023 at 12:46 pm

     HI Sutton is a pretty reliable source, although I am sure he could be taken in by rumour.
   • joe90 9.2

     22 August 2023 at 6:44 pm

     Taiwan MOD;

     The Ministry of National Defense held a press conference in the morning. Spokesperson Major General Sun Lifang pointed out in an interview that the national military has carefully and carefully grasped the dynamics of all sea and airspace around the Taiwan Strait through joint intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance methods. This is what the Ministry of National Defense has been doing very seriously. .

     Sun Lifang said that so far, he has not heard any relevant information confirming the wreck of the Chinese nuclear submarine. Such information is circulated from social media, and there is no other official statement to further confirm it.

     https://www.cna.com.tw/news/aipl/202308220126.aspx

     google translate
10. bwaghorn 10

    22 August 2023 at 12:44 pm

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/132782366/why-were-considering-leaving-our-rental-as-a-ghost-house

    Landlord grizzling!

    House prices cooling is a plus, and a ghost house tax should free a great doer upper for a motivated 1st home buyer!!
    • SPC 10.1

      22 August 2023 at 12:58 pm

      It's not even intended as an expose of the entitlement mentality, but as preparation for an era of plutocracy entitlement under NACT.

      Our home ownership is lower than the UK and falling.

      Once upon a time they were known as the propertied class and working class society, now we are the colony with the precariat working class paying rent to the class above.
    • Blazer 10.2

      22 August 2023 at 1:50 pm

      Do they have a…'givealittle '….page for donations?
11. SPC 11

    22 August 2023 at 12:48 pm

    Feature story on Stuff

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/132782366/why-were-considering-leaving-our-rental-as-a-ghost-house

    A cry baby story about a mum and dad investor since 1984, who never paid any income tax on rentals for near 4 decades – running them with 3/4 of the rent income as mortgage so there was no net income to tax. All for the untaxed CG.

    Now with the looming loss of the mortgage cost deduction (this has been phased in over the past few years and is not yet fully established) has reduced the portfolio down to one last rental (being lived in) while building a new home.

    He says that on moving into the new home, they will leave the house as a ghost home, rather than borrow $40,000 to get it up rental standards. Crying too poor to have a spare $40,000 to do this without debt – when it's just more of a habit to finance their rentals via debt and claim this as a cost against rent income.

    He concludes that the loss of mortgage deduction is forcing mum and dad investors to sell their rentals – in this he ignores the fact that those who invest in new builds still qualify for the mortgage deduction as a cost. It is a policy to encourage investment in new builds to stop investors bidding up the price of existing property on borrowed money.

    The parasitic class given a public voice.

    National intends to restore the mortgage tax deduction to enable more of this (discourage new build investment, slow new supply and increase property values for those in it for the untaxed CG – while not paying any tax on their rent income).
    • Descendant Of Smith 11.1

      22 August 2023 at 2:46 pm

      Cries poverty without explaining how much untaxed capital gain they made on the houses they have sold – all paid for by their own hard work tenants.

      Forgets also the period where you could offset your losses against your other income.

      Doesn't explain what he has done with his capital gains that let his house get so run-down and unmaintained.
      • mikesh 11.1.1

        22 August 2023 at 4:32 pm

        TOP have a policy to stop that sort of thing: they would insist on a prospective landlord putting up a 100% deposit on purchasing a rental property. In that case, with no mortgage to repay the landlord would would either make a profit – and paying tax on it – or find himself providing his tenant with cheap rent.
        • Bearded Git 11.1.1.1

          22 August 2023 at 5:02 pm

          TOP are polling 1%.
          • mikesh 11.1.1.1.1

            23 August 2023 at 8:34 am

            TOP are polling 1%.

            Which suggests that 99% of the voting population have no real understanding of economics; or else that the don't care about the high rents that tenants are paying.
12. bwaghorn 12

    22 August 2023 at 12:53 pm

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/aug/21/rich-countries-trap-poor-nations-into-relying-on-fossil-fuels

    A debt amnesty to help combat emmisions!

    That'll have the wealthy bleating
13. alwyn 13

    22 August 2023 at 4:02 pm

    Oh dear.

    After the fuss about Seymour's joke regarding Guy Fawkes and the Pacific Peoples Ministry I suppose we are now going to get demands that the Labour Party dump Hipkins as leader?

    How dare he will no doubt be Sepuloni's diatribe after Hipkins made a joke about Steve Hansen. Will Chippie be calling on the King to cancel Hansen's knighthood?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/132789273/cancel-his-citizenship-chris-hipkins-jokes-as-steve-hansen-confirms-wallabies-role
    • Louis 13.1

      22 August 2023 at 4:39 pm

      alwyn, It is not the same as wanting to blow up the Ministry for Pacific Peoples after two men had entered the building and harassed and intimidated staff.
14. mikesh 14

    22 August 2023 at 4:16 pm

    A debt amnesty to help combat emmisions!

    Or they could repay the debt with fiat money, denominated in their own currency. That's what America would do if it found itself in that situation.
15. fisiani 15

    22 August 2023 at 5:06 pm

    People think that 29% is bad news for Labour but look at the slide in support for over 4 months. The mood for change is all around. How low will the support go? Will it reach 19%?
    • bwaghorn 15.1

      22 August 2023 at 9:58 pm

      Holy hell , what rock you been hiding under , fizzy??
    • mikesh 15.2

      23 August 2023 at 8:48 am

      National/ACT have only 50%, according to that poll, which is not enough to govern. FNZ might have given them another 1% but FNZ has a snowball's chance in hell of making it into parliament. Success, or otherwise, for the right will probably depend on what happens with NZ1st, the Maori Party result, and to a lesser extent, on the Ilam result. I note also that 12% of those polled were "undecided".
      • SPC 15.2.1

        23 August 2023 at 4:07 pm

        It's enough for 65 seats with NZF under 5%.

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