Open mike 23/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 23rd, 2019 - 189 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

189 comments on “Open mike 23/02/2019 ”

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  1. Andre 1
    23 February 2019 at 7:10 am

    Nate Silver takes a deep dive into Bernie’s 2016 support with a focus on the Hillary-haters’ choices, and what it means for Bernie in 2020.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bernie-sanders-was-helped-by-the-neverhillary-vote-what-does-that-mean-for-his-chances-now/

    tl;dr Bernie can probably count on his hard-core Bernie bros, but not a whole lot else. Because the Hillary-haters now have a lot of other options. So Bernie’s going to have to work a lot harder to get to the same level he got to last time around. Which ain’t looking good for him.

    • soddenleaf 1.1
      23 February 2019 at 11:03 am

      Bernie is more a VP, since so many don’t like him, or so msm tell us, but enough do to make him hard to remove. Aka pence religious block. That was Clinton’s mistake, her inability to unite the party was so glaringly obvious. So my bet is neither Clinton or Bernie will be in it.

    • Adrian Thornton 1.2
      23 February 2019 at 12:23 pm

      …”Hillary-haters ” ..what you don’t (or don’t want to, more likely) seem to get is that most US voters weren’t and are not today “Hillary-haters” but hate what she is the very symbol of..Liberalism, she is like the centrists very own Ayn Rand, proudly the figurehead on a sinking ship.

      You and the establishment Democrats desperately cling to and defend a defunk and hated ideology passionately, one that is being rejected right into your face…and the result of your lack of self analysis… Trump, pure and simple, yes it was you and people like you gave the World Trump, so job well done there pal.
      But you still bang on and on about Hillary-haters and Bernie Bro’s, fuck is that best you can do, is that all you have got…oh no that’s right you have the Russians to blame too.

      BTW your FiveThirtyEight has got it’s prediction wrong so many times, and has been outed as being pro Hillary (centrist) so many times I am surprised you would use such a compromised source as your lead in your comment…try better next time.

      Is FiveThirtyEight Biased?
      http://rhinopress.org/2016/05/31/is-fivethirtyeight-biased/

      https://www.allsides.com/news-source/fivethirtyeight-0

      On Trump…
      “Trump has a better chance of cameoing in another “Home Alone” movie with Macaulay Culkin — or playing in the NBA Finals — than winning the Republican nomination.”

      ” Trump’s support will probably fade. Or at least, given his high unfavorable ratings, it will plateau, and other candidates will surpass him as the rest of the field consolidates.”

      “Our emphatic prediction is simply that Trump will not win the nomination. It’s not even clear that he’s trying to do so.”

      I could go on and on and on with FiveThirtyEight’s and Silvers completely wrong predictions, but why bother…you trust anything and anyone that supports your views no matter how fucked up they are… including the FBI now I believe.

      • Andre 1.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 1:49 pm

        Was that cathartic?

        • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 2:13 pm

          I find pointing out your regular partyline regurgitated buillshit is actually pretty boring and tedious actually.

          • marty mars 1.2.1.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 3:22 pm

            It’s okay if you choose to stop doing it.

            • Adrian Thornton 1.2.1.1.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 4:00 pm

              Fine with me, so how about we compromise?
              You guys settle it down with all the fruitless but seemingly endless defence of your broken, debunked centrist Liberalism and Russian conspirisory rabbit hole rubbish, and I will settle down on my critiquing you for it.
              Sound fair enough to you?

              • cleangreen …
                23 February 2019 at 4:14 pm

                good call adrian 100%

                I hope they pull their heads in too.

              • Andre …
                23 February 2019 at 4:35 pm

                Just for you, Adrian. A roundup of the highlights of what’s been publicly exposed of the Chump campaign’s dodgy dealings with Russians and some others. Be warned, just the highlights is already a longish document. Covering all the important details would be bigger than War and Peace.

                https://www.vox.com/2019/2/21/18197995/mueller-report-trump-russia-collusion-investigation

                • Adrian Thornton …
                  23 February 2019 at 5:29 pm

                  Look I have already read enough of this rubbish to know it is just smoke and mirrors involving a lot of really dodgy people doing what they do…dodgy things.

                  Lets get down to the actual reality in the world today with some facts we can all agree on and can’t argue with and then let’s digest that information and then on the balance of this undisputed information make a judgment of Trump/Russia.

                  Facts.

                  !. The USA is the most dominate power in the World both financially and militarily.
                  2. The USA has historically shown it is seriously interested in maintaining that hegemony.
                  3. The USA would like to see President Bashar al-Assad removed from power and have intervened to that end through military and other direct aid.
                  4. The Russian have assisted President Bashar al-Assad remain in power and have intervened to that end through military and other direct aid.
                  5. The USA would like to see the Ukraine removed from Russian influence and have intervened to that end through military aid and other direct aid.
                  6. Russia have sought to remain influential in the Ukraine and have intervened to that end through military aid and other direct aid.
                  7. The USA would like to see Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro removed from power in Venezuela, have offered aid and recognized Juan Guaidó as the legitimate head of that country.
                  8. Russia would like to see Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro stay in power, have delivered aid to Venezuela and have not recognized Juan Guaidó as the legitimate head of that country.

                  So where on earth is this collusion between Trump and Putin in the actual real world?
                  I mean FFS the US have got heavy sanctions imposed on Russia, and as we speak right now a new round of tougher sanctions are being imposed.
                  And just for argument’s sake, say there was some sort of collusion from Russia just to get Trump in to power, then why wouldn’t the Russians use that information against Trump now to blackmail him or just expose and destroy him?

                  Nothing in this whole Russia Gate conspirisory makes any sense, nothing adds up, there have been absolutely no, none, zero results or wins for Putin or Russia that you could point toward since Trump got in to power that I have seen..or maybe you could enlighten me to the big ones I have missed?

                  If not, then what the hell are you on about?..and I mean in the real world and not in US liberal media fantasy land.

                  • Andre …
                    23 February 2019 at 6:25 pm

                    Pootee may well have filed helping out the Combover Con under “oh well, seemed like a good idea at the time” by now. If Pootee actually has something on the Dork from New York, I’m not interested in trying to speculate when or how those strings might get pulled.

                    Whatever the exact motives may have been, Pootee benefits from internal dissent in his perceived geopolitical opponents because by weakening them it boosts Russia’s relative strength. It also improves his domestic political position by making others look like fuckups. Fuckery in foreign countries is a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than doing the hard work to actually improve Russia for the general russian public.

                    I’m not interested in unpacking the deceptive framing you’ve used in laying out some of your facts. Particularly if you shift your viewpoint in some of those situations to the view of oppressed peoples trying to exercise a right to self-determination.

                    • Adrian Thornton …
                      23 February 2019 at 7:20 pm

                      A, Trump and the Democrats need no help from anyone to help them both from looking like a bunch of fuckwit’s, they both do that quite brilliantly all by themselves.
                      B. I was not getting into anything to do with ;oppressed peoples trying to exercise a right to self-determination’ I was just stating the two country’s actions alone geopolitically in the respective contested countries,, without a motive component, so stop distracting, and stay focused on the primary subject please,

                      So as per usual you don’t answer any of my question..just blab something really vague that really means nothing… you know you would make a great politician , always obfuscate from actually answering any question directly.,,never a straight answer from you is there,

                    • Andre …
                      23 February 2019 at 9:02 pm

                      Adrian, the primary subject that started this thread was Bernie’s prospects in the Democrat primary this time around without Hillary as the only other choice. Which you never addressed, but successfully diverted away from.

                      Good boy.

                    • Adrian Thornton …
                      23 February 2019 at 10:11 pm

                      Well as I had already exposed your dodgy link as mainly pointless, and certainly biased, I just assumed we had moved on.

                      I do understand that of course you will never answer my questions re; Trump/Russia because even a dedicated conspiratory nut like yourself couldn’t do the convoluted mental gymnastics needed to give your answer even the slightest hint of credibility…so to be fair to you, at least you have that much self awareness left, which is something I guess…I also think that probably in your heart of hearts you really know it’s pretty much all bullshit too…well at least I hope so.

                      But just for the hell of it, I ask again, what exactly has Russia gained from getting Trump elected?…something tangible and with supporting links please.

                      BTW this is an open question…any takers?

              • marty mars …
                23 February 2019 at 5:07 pm

                Nah – let the games continue hurrah!

        • McFlock 1.2.1.2
          23 February 2019 at 5:04 pm

          lol

  2. Ad 2
    23 February 2019 at 8:20 am

    I really enjoyed this from The Civilian posted yesterday:

    http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/relief-new-zealand-businesses-wont-have-to-pay-capital-gains-on-these-family-homes/

    If this government were actually able to form a budget with measurable outcomes against specific wellbeing categories, it should convince us of a fresh social contract with its citizens that shows where our taxes are going, and why they should take them from us for the greater good.

    That would be a stronger place from which to do any major tax reform. Until the government releases its own view in April, we get a full month of debate on tax just washing around. And until the budget in May, there’s no sense available of how tax from citizens provides whole-of-country outcomes. So that’s another month of debate without stabilization.

    If as the PM signaled recently, many budget wellbeing categories are still too hard to measure after a year of trying and preparing for this budget, any refreshed sense of government taking from our income with good reason will remain elusive.

    They are going to get lampooned from both sides unless the April tax announcement and May budget are deadlines to Ministers to rebuild the national narrative about tax and common outcomes.

    It doesn’t mean “the vision thing”. It means a bit of logic, easily communicated, about what they are trying to do, from tax to outcomes.

    • Pat 2.1
      23 February 2019 at 8:46 am

      you mean like a plan?……thats a novel idea

    • AB 2.2
      23 February 2019 at 9:19 am

      “form a budget with measurable outcomes against specific wellbeing categories,”

      It shouldn’t be necessary. If you are doing this you have already lost because you are using your enemy’s tools. How do you measure alienation?

      • cleangreen 2.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 10:56 am

        AB

        The Government should have it’s ‘own media communication system in place’ to carefully set the records straight by now well ahead of the release of the final draft inn april/may.

        The stupid Labour party Minister who was irresponsible back in November 2017 (Claire Curran) when she stuffed up so badly, as she had wrecked any chance of labour having any ‘media platform’ – as RNZ was meant to be is been totally taken over and run by a bunch of ‘helicoptered in National Party supporters’ who every day give more air time to the National opposition party’s stupid false claims.

        Labour now should be pointing out any merits the tax plan may have, such as funding the broken infrastructure all around NZ; – caused by National’s nine years of “deferred maintenance”; – as they robbed the public purse for;

        * flag referendums.
        *boat races.
        *Warner Brothers movies.
        *Saudi sheep trade deal bribes.
        *Four lane ‘roads to no where’.

        Labour now must spend $50 million to construct their own TV/Radio public service network like TV7 was.

        And keep the useless Claire Curran well away from broadcasting wrecking for life.

        Claire Curran could only be useful as the Minister of Parking Meters.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 12:35 pm

          Are you seriously suggesting that the labour party, who happen to be in power, spend $50m of taxpayers dollars to create their own TV/Radio “Public Service” network?

          • cleangreen 2.2.1.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 4:18 pm

            TS;

            Why not as your National Party spent lots for a flag and sheep for saudis, so Labour should do the same too; – fair enough?

            I suppose you will say Labour are different eh?

            This is what I really think;

            The ‘Kiwi way of life’ is a low imagination horizon anti intellectualism based on exploitation”

            I came back from 10yrs away working in Canada from 1988 to 1998, and suffered a large shock as most of my mates were either without jobs anymore or had a broken marriage.

            National was in Power then remember?

            It seemed that while away ‘rogernomics’ had gutted the country and closed most of the local regional HB/Gisborne businesses down.

            Then when ‘John Fucking Key’ the slimeball came along he just totally dredged the place, to close down and steal anything he could finally sell.

            I don’t have much respect anymore for politicians now, because they say what you want to hear.

            When in Government they just don’t do much at all.

            I just hope Jacinda doesn’t let us all down as they all have before.

            • Adrian Thornton 2.2.1.1.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 4:50 pm

              “I just hope Jacinda doesn’t let us all down as they all have before.”
              Unfortunately I have to say that I wouldn’t be holding my breath on that one.

              The beating heart of any political movement when in power, is it’s economic ideology, everything else is dictated to by this one element, that is just a fact of political life in a democracy, and unfortunately for us the economic ideology of New Zealand Labour under Jacinda Ardern is by and large on of free market liberalism.

              The link below is a very good read, although it doesn’t cover the Ardern govt, I don’t think anyone would argue that Ardern’s vision for NZ is to far removed from Helen Clarks….

              New Zealand’s Neoliberal Drift
              https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/03/new-zealand-neoliberalism-inequality-welfare-state-tax-haven/

            • Tuppence Shrewsbury 2.2.1.1.1.2
              23 February 2019 at 5:38 pm

              I’m not going to take issue with issues on the matters you’ve additionally raised. I have a different view on some and the same on some.

              What I can’t abide, and I would have said the same if national had done it while in power, is the idea that government should set up additional public broadcasting at the behest of its supporters and advocates.

              It’s like if the government founded Facebook then used it as a medium to spread its message. There is no independence. It would be a new Pravda, completely berefit if anything of anything of value to the electorate as a whole.

        • alwyn 2.2.1.2
          23 February 2019 at 6:21 pm

          “Four lane ‘roads to no where’”

          I’ve been on a couple of those roads recently.
          One was from Paekakariki to Peka Peka. That is SH1 north of Wellington for your information.
          Another was something called the Waikato Expressway.
          They both seemed to be very good roads and certainly weren’t roads to “nowhere”.

          On the other hand I have seen people claiming that building a new railway line from Napier to Gisborne would somehow be sensible. Now that really is an unneeded transport route to nowhere.

          I suppose they might get a little train once a week.

          • KJT 2.2.1.2.1
            23 February 2019 at 6:32 pm

            You have NFI, how much freight goes between Napier and Gisborne.

            I can assure you however, that it is a hell of a lot more than ” one small train a week”.

            • alwyn 2.2.1.2.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 7:07 pm

              I have no doubt there is more than that.
              However, unless you go back to the dark ages when we forced people to move their freight by rail if it was more than about 30 miles in the 30’s and 40 miles in the 1960’s I doubt if people will choose to put too much freight back on the railways.
              I don’t think people will really want to go back to the multi handling required to get goods to the rail, shift them onto and then transport them by train and then transfer them back to trucks for delivery.
              They got off rail as fast as they could when the restrictions were finally scrapped in 1983.
              https://www.kiwirail.co.nz/about-us/history-of-kiwirail/150yearsofrail/stories/road-transport-regulation.html

              By the way, when you purport to quote me by putting words within quotation marks, why don’t you do it accurately?
              I didn’t say ” one small train a week”.
              I said “a little train once a week.”
              I quite agree there is not, in this case, a significant difference in meaning but it annoys me when quotes are not accurate. It also leads to people claiming X said Y ever afterward when it simply isn’t true.
              It is also much easier to get the quote of course. If you are a slow typist like me a cut and paste is far faster than typing it out.

              • joe90 …
                23 February 2019 at 7:13 pm

                transfer them back to trucks for delivery.

                Point to point line haul is a thing?

                • alwyn …
                  23 February 2019 at 8:23 pm

                  I’m afraid I don’t understand what you are saying.
                  Is it to much to ask for an explanation?

                  • joe90 …
                    23 February 2019 at 8:54 pm

                    Line haul depends on lighter vehicles to do first and last mile transporting in much the same way as rail once did.

                    An increase in last mile traffic would be a small price to pay to rid the roads of 60 tonne behemoths.

                  • Kevin …
                    24 February 2019 at 6:13 pm

                    I suggest you head to the nearest Mainfreight terminal an observe how freight is handled.

            • Poission 2.2.1.2.1.2
              23 February 2019 at 7:36 pm

              port of gisborne exports tonnage exceeds aucklands and is growing till 2021 to nearly double aucklands.(around 5 million tons)

              • alwyn …
                23 February 2019 at 8:36 pm

                I’ll take your word for the 2021 projections.
                However I see that in 2018 99.3% of the exports were logs.
                http://gisborneherald.co.nz/localnews/3324691-135/record-year-for-port
                I find it hard to believe that very much, if any,of that would have come from anywhere served by a Napier/Gisborne railway.

                • KJT …
                  23 February 2019 at 8:44 pm

                  Where do you think the log depos are?

                  On the rail line of course.
                  Logs are already trucked from the forest to the railyards. Then dried before being trucked again. At present they are picked up again by trucks, because there is no rail line. There is no more handling by rail. Less in fact, at the port. Discharging individual trucks as they arrive at random, is a problem for ports. Playing havoc with labour and plant scheduling. Except for Lyttelton, who seem unable to get their shit together, trains can be scheduled to fit in with ships working.

                  Just like Northland. Which I can confirm because I had a job one year, counting all the cut timber between South Auckland and North Cape.
                  Currently logs are trucked from the old rail depos to Northport. With all the resulting problems and costs. Because some National party twat, cancelled the line to the port.

                • KJT …
                  23 February 2019 at 8:58 pm

                  Most people seem to be unaware how long haul trucking works.

                  It is depo to depo, just like rail was.

                  Smaller trucks do the local delivery.

                  If trucks had to pay all their roading costs and externalities, almost all long haul would be ships or rail.
                  As it would have stayed, if trucks had to pay their full road costs right from the outset.

                  It doesn’t even take any longer, in most cases.

      • David Mac 2.2.2
        23 February 2019 at 11:23 am

        Every successful initiative has measurement at it’s core. If we don’t measure we don’t know where we’ve been, what we’ve got or how to expend energy to get to where we want to be.

        Non measurement is the best way to disguise a window-dressing plan with little chance of success.

        Is Whanau Ora working? Crap measurement….we haven’t got a clue.

        Businesses that don’t measure quickly fail.

        We measure alienation by measuring what it produces. Well being is measured by monitoring the components of what we consider to be living well. eg: Health – hospital admissions, Prozac sales. Education, income equity etc.

        Everything can be measured and should be

        • Stuart Munro 2.2.2.1
          23 February 2019 at 11:30 am

          Not sure about that – there are intangibles that don’t lend themselves to quantification.

          It would be nice to have a joined up vision – but there’s plenty of firefighting to be done in the meantime. People with their feet to the fire want action more than they want a mission statement.

          • David Mac 2.2.2.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 11:43 am

            I hear you Stuart, but disagree. Intangibles are an amalgamation of tangibles.

            eg: I love ice-cream. My love is an amalgamation of texture, flavour, temperature, packaging, price, availability. Because of the tangibles, I love some ice-cream more than others. My love can be measured.

            Mission statements aren’t measuring, they’re a disguise for it. eg: ‘We want to build the best car in the world’.

            • Stuart Munro 2.2.2.1.1.1
              24 February 2019 at 12:10 am

              Back when I was a quality assurance enthusiast, I’d’ve told you desirable intangibles are emergent properties of systems that successfully deal with negative facets. So not quite an amalgamation but a product of one if all the negatives are recognized.

              Mission statements ought to be relatively important, but most enterprises in NZ don’t use quality as a competitive strategy, so they’re more of a lip service for certification purposes than the kind of thing you get from reading Imai.

    • Sacha 2.3
      23 February 2019 at 9:50 am

      “rebuild the national narrative”

      Fortunately they have finally hired a competent political comms manager. Let’s see if they listen to him.

    • greywarshark 2.4
      23 February 2019 at 10:08 am

      NZ Post just went down $101 million on an updated computer system I think. Now it is unlikely that they commissioned this in house. There are many ways that the government can’t guarantee that they will be able to do everything they envisage in a timely, efficient manner. If we did more through our public channels with reasonable criteria and measures. likely we would do better when aiming for a timely, workable, cost efficient model. And allow for some over-runs.

      (Aside. A chap who has been living in China. married there, bought an apartment there. Knows about the place says that there are cracks appearing in the apartment walls. Places were thrown up to take advantage of the property boom – thrown up, and now settling down apparently – all over the place. Bit shonky.)

      We are in lala land now where people set impossible unreasonable targets. Very little will ever turn out as envisaged and budgeted for. Let’s do the limbo, lower the target and effectiveness will go up.

      Limbo! Can we bring house prices down so that our discretionary spending comes up?

    • Wensleydale 2.5
      23 February 2019 at 12:38 pm

      That Civilian piece was comedy gold. The amount of hysterical shrieking going on over this is jaw-dropping. Watching National Party MPs ducking and diving over their vast portfolios had me grinning like a Cheshire cat. “Well… erm, I do have a few properties, but they’re mostly my wife’s. And some are in a trust so they’re not technically properties at all… they’re just… things in a trust. But the real issue here – the real issue, is hard-working mum and dad investors, blah, blah, drone, drone, squirm, squirm…”

      And Simon “Attack on the Kiwi way of life!” Bridges is the gift that keeps on giving.

  3. Cinny 3
    23 February 2019 at 9:27 am

    Question please…

    Has tv3’s ‘The Nation’ been axed?

    Parliament is back, Q+A is back…. but ‘The Nation’ isn’t.

    Edit… just found out they are back on 3 March

    • cleangreen 3.1
      23 February 2019 at 11:00 am

      Cinny.

      National is back next week or so my wife tells me.

      She said ‘Nation wanted some time to get the parliament dirt after they had been working for a week or so’; – it makes sense.

  4. vto 4
    23 February 2019 at 9:32 am

    If there is to be no capital gains tax

    Then there is to be no income gains tax

    How can you have one without the other?

    New Zealand – the land of ostriches

    especially out there in farmerland

    take a look … you can hear them …

    though they sound like chickens…. bok bok bok

  5. WeTheBleeple 5
    23 February 2019 at 9:51 am

    This prick.

    “I’m on the local water usage group”

    “We lease that land out to squash farmers … and they get spraying contractors in to move and set up the system”

    No care, no responsibility. Big talker twice removed from his own land.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12205866

    • greywarshark 5.1
      23 February 2019 at 10:11 am

      It’s a shame that more of the land is leasehold rather than freehold. Then proper use of water and tratment of the soil could be enforced. And being twice removed from his land would have a different meaning. Three strikes and you’re out would too.

      • greywarshark 5.1.1
        23 February 2019 at 5:44 pm

        That sounds weird. I mean it would be better if most of the land was leasehold rather than freehold. Government lease, Maori lease, with a limit on renewable periods. Otherwise, with renewals of long leases, it can be a virtual alienation of the land.

  6. Bewildered 6
    23 February 2019 at 10:06 am

    I see a 40 year Mp veteran has left the uk Labour Party ( now 9) Scathing of Jezzers, not fit to lead, anti Semitic and extremist I don’t think the coming of Jezzer and uk Labour is likely any time soon

    • James 6.1
      23 February 2019 at 10:16 am

      there have been a lot of Corbyn fans on here who have been overlooking the anti Semitic nature of the Labour Party and momentum movement for a long time.

      They are enablers.

      Lucky Corbyn is the best thing for the Tories since forever.

      • Ankerrawshark 6.1.1
        23 February 2019 at 10:27 am

        James I think you mean lucky Simon is the best thing for labour since sliced bread.

        If 6ou believe Jeremy Corbin’s anti-Semitic, you’ll believe anything.

        It might be hard for tories to realize that Jeremy Corbin is all about decency and that would extend to everyone……

        • mpledger 6.1.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 10:37 am

          Yea, it’s just Israel propaganda that the Torries have decided to run with.

        • Adrian Thornton 6.1.1.2
          23 February 2019 at 11:15 am

          +1, “If you believe Jeremy Corbyn’s anti-Semitic, you’ll believe anything.

          You hit the nail on the head right there… I wouldn’t bother with these Corbyn/anti semitic morons if I were you, they are beyond reasoning with.

        • McFlock 6.1.1.3
          23 February 2019 at 5:19 pm

          Just as anti-semitism and criticism of Israel are two different things, believing Corbyn specifically is anti-semitic and believing that anti-semitism seems to be tolerated by the Labour hierarchy are two different things.

          • greywarshark 6.1.1.3.1
            23 February 2019 at 5:49 pm

            VOR McFlock
            Voice of Reason. Israel government should listen to you. They are sort of throwing dildos in the world’s faces, saying hah we can do anything wish. Because we have been so badly treated. we will never have to say we are sorry for anything. There have been horrible happenings elsewhere though.

            • McFlock 6.1.1.3.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 6:04 pm

              The Israeli govt is what it is, and I strongly suspect the current regime plans to eliminate the ghettos in the next 50 years.

              But their claims of antisemitism to deflect from their fascism are essentially background radiation in this. The tory bleating is a bigger source. But a few of those clicks on the geiger counter seem to come from UK Labour, from what I’ve read.

      • Anne 6.1.2
        23 February 2019 at 10:44 am

        https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47330079

        Is it anti Semitism or anti Zionism?

        If it is the former, then that is shameful beyond words.

        If it is the latter, then my interpretation is they are anti the Israeli government which comes under the auspices of politics. Everyone is entitled to have their political views no matter how repugnant some of them may be.

        So, which is it James? To ‘mix’ the two together in order to smear a political party – and I suspect that is what is happening to the UK Labour Party – is dishonest to the point of disgusting given the subject matter.

        For the record, I have met and befriended many Jewish people over the years. I never met one I didn’t like and whose company I didn’t enjoy. On the other hand, I think the current Israeli government has become a hard-line, war-mongering nation that practices excessive brutality. I have been told that many of its inhabitants think like-wise.

        Edit: I’m not doubting there is some anti-Semitism in UK Labour but that, imo, would be the case in any political party. Anti-Semitism is an irrational and emotional response to generations of bigotry and prejudice and exists everywhere.

      • KJT 6.1.3
        23 February 2019 at 11:02 am

        Newsflash James.
        Palestinians are Semites.

        How can objecting to them being bombed, shot and imprisoned be “anti Semitic?

        • Psych nurse 6.1.3.1
          23 February 2019 at 11:33 am

          And most Jewish peoples are not Semitic, they are Jewish by conversion not genetically, I wouldn’t see Corbyn as being discriminating to Jewish people but supporting of Palestinian aspirations. Some see that as anti semitic.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1.3.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 12:39 pm

            Probably the most anti semitic statement ever written on this site.

            The mental contortions you must go through to justify your anti-semitism?

            Labour insiders leave labour over anti-semitism, but according to corbyn’s supporters it doesn’t exist as the new independents are blairites? go figure

            • One Two 6.1.3.1.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 3:03 pm

              Who are ‘semites’, in your option, TS ?

              Or did you just feel like dropping one in the elevator…

          • veutoviper 6.1.3.1.2
            23 February 2019 at 1:31 pm

            I don’t want to get into this discussion re whether Corbyn is anti-Semitic or anti-Zionism – or IMHO more probably anti the current Israeli government – as it is a very complex situation; but I really was more than astounded (to put it mildly) at your statement that:

            ‘ And most Jewish peoples are not Semitic, they are Jewish by conversion not genetically”

            This is an enormous subject which has attracted and continues to attract many differing opinions and theories; and a considerable number of genetic studies including DNA testing of many of the different groupings of Jews. Results have been variable depending on these groups.

            Some DNA studies of Ashkenazi Jews (those who dispersed through the Holy Roman Empire in Western Europe and then spread into Eastern Europe for example) have suggested that they may have little genetic relationship to their original Middle Eastern ancestors and that their genes seem more related to early European women in particular. However, these results are disputed by some and also contrast with the results of DNA testing of other groups of Jews such as Sephardic Jews who descend from Jews who settled in the Iberian Peninsula, and Mizrahi Jews, who descend from Jews who remained in the Middle East.

            While Ashkenazi Jews make up the majority of Jews throughout the world (eg roughly estimated at about 70-75%), even if the DNA studies of Ashkenazi Jews are accepted this does not necessarily equate to proof that they are Jewish by conversion.

            Conversion to Judaism is in itself a complex subject ranging from the very strict rules relating to matriarchal lineage of the ultra orthodox Jewish movement through the slightly less restrictive modern Orthodox; through the next main group of Conservative movements formed as a halfway house between Orthodox and Reform theology and practices; then the much liberal, progressive Reform groups; and to the much more recent groups formed in mainly Anglophone countries including Reconstructive Judaism which emphasizes modernism and gender equality etc.

            I really don’t want to get into a further discussion on this – or to divert from the main discussion on Corbyn etc – but merely wanted to provide the above as a caution against using or accepting such general statements as if they are fact.

            PS – I have now seen Tuppence Shrewsbury’s comment. While I won’t go as far as that, this is the third time in as many months that I have read very generalised statement re Jews here on TS. I responded to the first ( re whether Jewish people are often quoted as aspiring to their children become doctors, or now lawyers). but ignored the second despite the fact that it was a very ignorant and confused statement based on – wait for it – an article in TeenVogue magazine. Sorry. but not letting this one past without comment.

            (Please note the other two comments were by another commenter – not Psych Nurse).

            • RedLogix 6.1.3.1.2.1
              23 February 2019 at 3:06 pm

              Interesting ‘rant’. Anti-Semitism is of course a real thing, and has some very deep roots in European history. The genetic aspect is also interesting as well, and has some very real outcomes.

              Clearly the Jewish people constitute a very complex community and treating them all as one ‘identity’ group is a fail for a start. The story of Israel as a nation is also central to the Western narrative. Many, many complex threads and themes.

            • Morrissey 6.1.3.1.2.2
              23 February 2019 at 7:44 pm

              I don’t want to get into this discussion re whether Corbyn is anti-Semitic or anti-Zionism

              There is no discussion to be had. There is no evidence that he is anti-Semitic.

          • Ankerrawshark 6.1.3.1.3
            23 February 2019 at 2:37 pm

            Just read an article on fb book about the anti Semitic claims, that show the facts of the complaints of anti-semitism. None against Jeremy Corbin, complaints rigorously investigated, most not upheld, those that were got expulsion.

            Amazing how the right and the msm will try and spin a narrative

      • Stuart Munro 6.1.4
        23 February 2019 at 11:34 am

        Pish and tosh.

        Corbyn is no more anti-Semitic than Twyford is anti Chinese or the Gnats are anti corruption.

      • Cinny 6.1.5
        23 February 2019 at 12:14 pm

        James have you ever watched an investigation called “The Lobby”? it’s from 2017

        Al Jazeera Investigations exposes how the Israel lobby influences British politics. A six-month undercover investigation reveals how Israel penetrates different levels of British democracy.

        Anti-Zionism is deliberately conflated with anti-Semitism to suppress legitimate criticisms of Israeli policies.

        Episode Three: In part three, our undercover reporter witnesses a heated conversation between two opposing activists. The evidence raises serious questions about whether accusations of anti-Semitism are used to stifle political debate.

        https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

        There are also follow up episodes covering events which have happened since their investigation screened.

        Highly recommended viewing.

        • RedLogix 6.1.5.1
          23 February 2019 at 12:42 pm

          Yes the conflation of anti-Semitism with anything critical of the state of Israel is a tactic that has been around for a few decades now.

          It’s a very common technique to discredit your opponents that we see used a lot these days; taking usually selective misquotes from a source and then deliberately attaching them to a different, darker agenda that you can then attack freely.

          It goes beyond the mere strawman, into something more corrosive and perverse.

          • veutoviper 6.1.5.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 2:02 pm

            Agreed – but I will throw another spanner in the works.

            That is, IMO opinion “anti-Semitism” should never be conflated with “anti-Zionism”. BUT nor should either of those terms be conflated with being anti the current Israeli government and its policies/practices.

            Zionism used to have and should still have a very different meaning, aspiration to what now existing in terms of the current Israeli state/government and its policies/practices.

            Sorry, will just leave it at that as need to go out and I have already done a long rant at 6.1.3.1.2 above today about a generalised statement made above re Jews and Judaism.

        • Incognito 6.1.5.2
          23 February 2019 at 1:20 pm

          This’ll be a controversial comment. For years after WW2 many Europeans and non-Europeans alike used the terms Nazi and German synonymously. This was caused by their direct and indirect experiences and the compelling war (and post-war!) propaganda machines. It has taken 2-3 generations to disentangle these terms and the German people and governments have worked hard to help this along. The Wall came down and the unification is still a work in progress but perceptions have slowly changed over time.

      • Kevin 6.1.6
        23 February 2019 at 4:46 pm

        You couldn’t even comment on the colour of Netanyahu’s shoelaces without being labelled anti Semitic.

        Israel is not beyond criticism and hiding behind the antisemetuc slur at every opportunity does them no favours.

        • McFlock 6.1.6.1
          23 February 2019 at 5:45 pm

          If the criticisms about UKLabour were restricted to that level, I’d agree.

          Most of the criticism against Corbyn personally seems to be a beat-up, a politician associating with folk just because politicians associate with lots of folk and some of them might have unsavoury aspects.

          But some of the issues in the wider party seem to be a bit more serious than that.

  7. One Two 7
    23 February 2019 at 10:22 am

    International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP), an industry loyal NGO, and thus have a serious conflict of interest

    Abstract

    In May 2011 the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) evaluated cancer risks from radio frequency (RF) radiation. Human epidemiological studies gave evidence of increased risk for glioma and acoustic neuroma. RF radiation was classified as Group 2B, a possible human carcinogen. Further epidemiological, animal and mechanistic studies have strengthened the association.

    In spite of this, in most countries little or nothing has been done to reduce exposure and educate people on health hazards from RF radiation.

    On the contrary ambient levels have increased.

    In 2014 the WHO launched a draft of a Monograph on RF fields and health for public comments.

    It turned out that five of the six members of the Core Group in charge of the draft are affiliated with International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP), an industry loyal NGO, and thus have a serious conflict of interest.

    Just as by ICNIRP, evaluation of non-thermal biological effects from RF radiation are dismissed as scientific evidence of adverse health effects in the Monograph. This has provoked many comments sent to the WHO.

    However, at a meeting on March 3, 2017 at the WHO Geneva office it was stated that the WHO has no intention to change the Core Group.

    • cleangreen 7.1
      23 February 2019 at 12:10 pm

      One Two,

      WHO has made the right choice; – and inserted “The precautionary Principal” into its
      RF radiation adverse health effects in the Monograph.

      https://www.who.int/peh-emf/meetings/southkorea/Leeka_Kheifets_principle_.pdf

      THE PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE AND EMF
      Dr Leeka I Kheifets
      World Health Organization
      Tel: +41 22 791 49 76, Fax: +41 22 791 41 23, Email: kheifetsl@who.int

      Our bodies are naturally tuned between a low frequency between 308 – to 504 Hz, and were not capable of sustaining high frequencies as we now.

      We must use the ‘Precautionary Principal’ just as Government uses it’ all the time when they impose more ‘compliance’ rules upon us all every day.

  8. soddenleaf 8
    23 February 2019 at 10:51 am

    Find a farmer, they speak for all farmers,any farmer. Ask them to conflate benefits and a CGT. Speak to emotion, that they are just jealous of farmers, farmers work hard for every cent. Now you have your classic turd blossom. Hard too attack since where to start, the fact that less than 5% of the poorest people have a overwhelmingly say in the present govt, or that farmers in NZ compete against Australian farmers who do pay CUT. So what hard work,the hard work making up turd blossoms to keep that artificial govt subsidy of not pay CGT that competitors do. Oh, and you’ve ever wonder why subsides are bad, they hand people more income than the market actually was goibg to, that makes it easier to take more risks as farmers have more money, and so drives up a risk premium. Yes, NZ farmers laziness makes Australian bankers richer. A dairy farmer,say, competing with a Ozzie diary farmer can take a bigger risk in expanding their dairy. So let’s call the farmers out, their subsidy just makes them more reckless and the Aussie banks soakup the benefits. There should be a reason for every legislative difference between oz and nz or they should be removed. why don’t we have a CGT. Not why should me lifestyle be subsidized so that I can make profits selling homes to each other, and padding bankers with fees.

    • soddenleaf 8.1
      23 February 2019 at 10:57 am

      Foriegn farmer, business owner comes to NZ to find out why he gets beat by kiwi hard work, turns out his jealousy at our lack of CAT is miss placed, it should be pity, that we incentivized taking, expand put non productive sectors, and breed farmers who think its just the poorest jealous of their subsidized success.Bet the free press aren’t going to characterize farmers as beggars desperate for a free ride from the tax payers. What no farm subsidies in NZ, no CUT is a farm, real estate, risk premium nightmare. why are the neolibs backing a zero rate CGT, its not good economics.

    • greywarshark 8.2
      23 February 2019 at 11:56 am

      soddenleaf
      Rant right! I might agree if I could find an end to paragraph and capture the whole idea illustrated there. Sometimes it just comes pouring out sure. Why not take a minute and press enter at appropriate full stops. Don’t chuck the whole brick, get a better result from a number of smaller ones from different dangkles. (That’s a typo but I thunk it lookds good so I’ll leave it for decoration.)

  9. rata 9
    23 February 2019 at 10:55 am

    It is so important Labour is re-elected in 2020.
    A one term Labour Gov’t would see all the fairness go out the window.
    While this would mean the the over due evolution of a new party
    in the mean time National would dominate for another decade.
    So Labour needs to win while also evolving into a new party.
    A tough ask but essential.
    2020 is a defining year for Labour and all who rely on her

    • Bewildered 9.1
      23 February 2019 at 11:15 am

      You have a big problem when you personally rely on or look for your salvation on any government, I suggest it is not a goal for any one to aim for

      • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1
        23 February 2019 at 11:44 am

        Tell that to the daughter of a NZ cancer patient who recently wrote an open letter to the PM pleading for more public money to be allocated to funding new cancer treatments.

        Would an effective CGT, of the type most other developed countries have, be one way of publically funding these new treatments?

        Or we could just flog off the other half of our electricity providers to private interests – but only once.

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 12:01 pm

          Are these new cancer treatments curative or just lengthening time left. What do you think would be a fair approach to our health system and the afflicted person? Have an understanding that we will try to give the patient at least six month perhaps a year of low pain and good mobility time with family, and time to carry out some of the dreams that were in mind for later?

          How does that sound? The new drugs are very expensive and i hear demands for them to be rolled out so the diseased person can constantly put off dying at great expense to the country. Being fair should work both ways.

          • Cinny 9.1.1.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 1:30 pm

            The new drugs are very expensive

            Lotsa money to be made from cancer. Drug manufacturers holding the world to ransom. Sucks.

            CGT funding more R&D would be fantastic, however there are some powerful players in the game of curing fatal diseases.

            Wondering why the nats are all over the cannabis debate, but super quiet re euthanasia?

          • Andre 9.1.1.1.2
            23 February 2019 at 6:43 pm

            There do appear to be some instances of the new treatments being genuinely curative. Jimmy Carter is probably the highest profile example of Keytruda apparently helping to completely eradicate the metastasised melanoma he had in his brain and liver.

            But those instances of complete cure are still very rare and it’s still mostly very expensive life extension for a few months or at best a few years.

        • Bewildered 9.1.1.2
          23 February 2019 at 3:22 pm

          To answer your question probably not, most of it lost in administration, poor government spending and dead weight loss to the economy in increase in unproductive services like lawyers, valuers and accountants. Simiilsrky whst will impact of CGT on productive sector, less growth, investment, entrepreneurship, less jobs meaning less jobs and income tax / gst This is before even mentioning forecasting level of taxed raise is highly dubious, Not even Warren Buffet can tell you where asset values are heading so would not trust those clowns in government or wonks in treasury As it is it could be negative tax if assets start falling and people can offsetting capital losses against thier income CGT is not a magic bullet with many possible unintended consequences

          • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1.2.1
            23 February 2019 at 9:34 pm

            Bewildered, thanks for your considered, honest assessment.

            It seems that things haven’t been too rosy in the public health sector of late, what with concerns about deteriorating infrastructure and inadequate funding for new drugs, not to mention over-worked nurses and (junior) doctors striking for better conditions.

            IF you accept that NZ’s universal publicly-funded health system should not be allowed to deteriorate for lack of funding, then how best to secure the funding necessary to adequately support the professional efforts of public sector health workers?

            If increased taxation is an idealogical no-no, then how else might the Government go about it? Assuming that you think a universal publicly-funded health system is a good idea.

            “On average, other wealthy countries spend half as much per person on healthcare than the U.S.”

            https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/how-do-healthcare-prices-and-use-in-the-u-s-compare-to-other-countries/#item-start

        • Nic the NZer 9.1.1.3
          24 February 2019 at 9:58 am

          Its important to understand how public funding works. At any time the government can afford to purchase anything for sale in $NZ, that is all there is to it. Any further discussion is about the impacts of the governments taxation and spending decisions on the economy which are difficult to predict (and the budget forecast is frequently quite far off on many key variables within months of being issued).

          To put it simplistically (but correctly) the govt can today afford to fund these treatments and chooses not to do so.

    • patricia bremner 9.2
      23 February 2019 at 9:46 pm

      Yes Rata, and when you get told by Bewildered not to rely on any Government, when he/she is so obviously a Tory LOL LOL. Comments from that person have always dissed the Coalition and lauded National.
      We definitely need a Labour led Government for 3 electoral terms to establish a fairer system.

  10. Adrian Thornton 10
    23 February 2019 at 11:20 am

    Good News!
    Another step in freeing Julian Assange,
    Authorities confirm Assange’s Australian passport was renewed last October.

    “The implication is that DFAT’s decision to renew the passport several months later was based on an assessment that Julian Assange is “not the subject of an arrest warrant in connection with a ‘serious foreign offence.’”

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/22/pass-f22.html

    • greywarshark 10.1
      23 February 2019 at 11:51 am

      Julian Assange was a great help in inserting a wedge in the cogs of the powers’ people-wheel. They resented that and had to find something to darken his wan cheeks. Luckily they found something sexual. Otherwise they might have had to resort to announcing that he couldn’t pee straight.

      He definitely deserves our consideration, kindly that is, forgiving if necessary.

    • RedLogix 10.2
      23 February 2019 at 12:31 pm

      That linked article sums up this nasty episode very thoroughly Adrian.

      This story has been thrashed over many times here in the past and I’ve no wish to re-open them, but hell the longer this goes on the more absurd it becomes.

      • Adrian Thornton 10.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 1:06 pm

        Yes it is all very Kafka at this point, strangely it reminds me a lot of the many critiques that made their way out, from within the Stalinist regime during it’s ascendancy.

    • McFlock 10.3
      23 February 2019 at 5:52 pm

      So why doesn’t he walk out of the embassy?

      • Adrian Thornton 10.3.1
        23 February 2019 at 8:05 pm

        If you were in his position would you?

        • McFlock 10.3.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 8:33 pm

          There are apparently no warrants, just a pissy little jumping bail charge. Six months, a year at the outside, he’s done with the entire issue. Probably with greater freedom of movement than he currently has. Or are the brits now going to rendition him to the USA? Because didn’t he flee to the UK to avoid that eventuality?

          • Adrian Thornton 10.3.1.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 8:40 pm

            So I ask again, would you walk out of that embassy if you where in his position?

            • McFlock 10.3.1.1.1.1
              23 February 2019 at 8:54 pm

              I wouldn’t have walked in in the first place.

              In fact, I wouldn’t have had cause to leave Sweden.

              • KJT …
                23 February 2019 at 9:00 pm

                And. You would be sitting in solitary confinement in the USA.

                Pour encourager les autres

                • McFlock …
                  23 February 2019 at 9:15 pm

                  So he left Sweden and went to the UK to avoid rendition, but now apparently Sweden no longer wants him so he stays in the embassy to avoid rendition from the country he fled to in order to avoid rendition.

                  Bit weird.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    23 February 2019 at 10:09 pm

                    The situation Assange is in now, not to mention how he got there, may indeed seem a ‘bit weird’.

                    Despite Trump’s campaign assertion “I love Wikileaks“, if I was in Assange’s shoes right now I’d have to think really carefully about simply walking out of the embassy. Honest!

                    “Asked whether it was a priority for the justice department to arrest Assange “once and for all”, Sessions told a press conference in El Paso, Texas, on Thursday: “We are going to step up our effort and already are stepping up our efforts on all leaks. This is a matter that’s gone beyond anything I’m aware of. We have professionals that have been in the security business of the United States for many years that are shocked by the number of leaks and some of them are quite serious.”

                    He added: “So yes, it is a priority. We’ve already begun to step up our efforts and whenever a case can be made, we will seek to put some people in jail.”

                    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/apr/21/arresting-julian-assange-is-a-priority-says-us-attorney-general-jeff-sessions

                    Sessions is no longer attorney general, but the U.S. administration-led crusade to prosecute Assange has been going on for many years – it’s more than just personal.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 February 2019 at 10:29 pm

                      How does that differ from when he was asked to attend a second interview about sexual assault allegations?

                      The yanks want him in a yank jail. If he fled Sweden and jumped bail in the UK because he thought the Swedes would send him to the US if he were extradited to Sweden, didn’t this fear evaporate when the Swedes withdrew their EAW? He walks out of the embassy, does a month or two for bail-jumping, and leaves it all behind him.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    23 February 2019 at 10:35 pm

                    Suspect Assange would like to have your confidence and certainty, but being a shut-in for 6+ years…

                    Fortunately there are no consequences if we guess wrong.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 February 2019 at 10:41 pm

                      Thing is, I reckon there’s a really good chance that he only fled to the safety of the USA’s closest ally in order to avoid plain old sexual assault allegations. If it was a genuine concern, he would have copied Snowden.

                      Maybe he believes his own bullshit now. That’s probably poetic justice.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      23 February 2019 at 10:59 pm

                      You could be right that “there’s a really good chance” etc., but Assange fled a bit further than to the USA’s closest ally.

                      I get that you would take the gamble, but your suggestion that Assange is (now) too self-deluded to correctly evaluate the risk to his future life and liberty seems a bit of a low blow.

                      Whatever happens, his name and achievements will outlast most – maybe that’s some consolation.

                    • McFlock …
                      23 February 2019 at 11:09 pm

                      The dude’s been staring at the same four walls for a while now. That can do bad things.

                      If I didn’t know it was a gilded cage he selected for himself, probably to avoid accountability for actions in his personal life, I’d be inclined to sympathy.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      23 February 2019 at 11:21 pm

                      “A gilded cage” – we should all be so ‘lucky’! If “bad things” have been ‘done’, maybe that’s punishment enough.

                      If “the dude’s” free to walk, what accountability is he avoding?

                    • McFlock …
                      23 February 2019 at 11:22 pm

                      As for his achievements, Wikileaks and encouraging the use of protected leaking was a tremendous good. Doxing female Turkish voters was a bad thing.

                      But people and groups can be more than one thing, and complicated. And sometimes the drive and self-image that enables the good also enables the bad (Churchill also comes to mind with that).

              • Adrian Thornton …
                23 February 2019 at 9:56 pm

                I didn’t ask you any of those questions, nor am I interested in your opinion on those matters, so now about you just answer the simple question that I proposed to you three questions ago please.

                Would you walk out of the embassy today if you where in his position?

                • McFlock …
                  23 February 2019 at 10:22 pm

                  Yes.

                  Why wouldn’t I? There are no warrants out for me…

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    23 February 2019 at 10:51 pm

                    Well I will send you a care package c/- Guantanamo bay, obviously you have plenty of trust in the American justice system it would seem, I know I don’t….might see you in about 10-15 years if you’re lucky.

                    “The visit came a day before Assange received bad news from the US, where a federal judge refused to force the Justice Department to admit the existence of what are believed to be criminal charges laid against him in secret.”

                    “The existence of the charge has long been rumoured and was all but confirmed by a mix-up in a Virginia court last year, when an otherwise unremarkable document filed by a government lawyer referred, out of context, to “the fact that Assange has been charged”.

                    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/australian-diplomats-visit-assange-told-of-deteriorating-health-20190201-p50uyq.html

                    • McFlock …
                      23 February 2019 at 10:56 pm

                      So as soon as he step out of the embassy, he will be renditioned by the yanks? From downtown London? And if they have a formal criminal investigation, why would they send him to Guantanamo, which is for people without an actual criminal or POW status (which is why thay’re using non-US soil)?

                      Walk me through the process here. How does he get from the front door of the Ecuadoeran Embassy in London all the way to Guantanamo?

                    • McFlock …
                      25 February 2019 at 3:16 pm

                      lol crickets

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    25 February 2019 at 3:57 pm

                    “Walk me through the process here. How does he get from the front door of the Ecuadoeran Embassy in London all the way to Guantanamo?”

                    Obviously I was using Guantanamo as analogy of the US’s complete lack of interest adhering to any international law if it does not suit them.
                    I was just assuming that you would understand that this lack of regard for the rule of law that could so easily be applied to someone like Assange that has been so openly threatened by so many powerful people in powerful positions in the US would make you a little more circumspect about walking out that door, I know wouldn’t walk out that door, Assange wisely does not, no it is only you who seem to think that the Yanks are just a bunch of forgive and forget kind of guys..you know let bygones be bygones…Yeh right.

                    • McFlock …
                      25 February 2019 at 5:06 pm

                      Nice dodge. Show us exactly what you are afraid of:

                      He goes out to the front step of the embassy, and then…

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      25 February 2019 at 8:57 pm

                      It appears that ‘last word-McFlock’ (just a bit of fun) has reopened this case – not sure that was necessary, but I’ll bite.

                      Here’s a remote, but (IMO) not inconceivable sequence of events – note that since I have no legal training it should be fairly easy to shoot down.

                      1. Assange steps outside the embassy, is arrested by MET police (tipped off by an Ecuadorian embassy ‘friendly’ on retainer) and detained. [“The Metropolitan police have previously said he would face immediate arrest if he left the embassy, for breaching the terms of his bail conditions when he sought asylum.“]

                      2. The US asks its “closest ally” (your words) to facilitate extradition of Assange to the US, where he is incarcerated pending trial. It’s unlikely that Assange would be granted bail while awaiting trial, since he had previously skipped bail, or failed to appear in court, or whatever.

                      3. If normal U.S. legal conventions (Law & Order) are followed, then it might take several appeals before Assange eventually winds up in Guantanamo or some other ‘correctional’ facility.

                      Don’t know whether you auto-dismiss Guardian articles; this link is just evidence that a little over 3 months ago senior news writer Esther Addley was thinking along similar lines, at least for the for the first few ‘steps’.

                      https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-have-criminal-charges-been-prepared-us

                      State authorities can occassionally be quite vindictive when it comes to making public examples of those who have inconvenienced ‘the state’, and revealing secret machinations is an inconvenience.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 February 2019 at 2:08 pm

                      rephrasing an unasnwered question within a couple of hours is hardly “reopening”, but whatevs.

                      1: yes, because he jumped bail.
                      2: if the yanks request extradition, Assange is well-versed in delaying proceedings. And of course US proceedings against him will have to be formally and openly at a level where he would have been charged under UK law. And I suspect the reasons for extradition would be highly challengable under UK law, anyway.

                      3: If he is extradited to the US, he will be delivered to US soil, so he will have constitutional safeguards (which is why they used a base on Cuban soil in the first place).

                      And he only faces this issue because he jumped bail in the first place. Otherwise the yanks would have asked for him when he was walking around London.

                      If I were Assange, would I accept an invitation to do a speaking tour of the US? Shit, no. Would I plea bargain with the CPS for maybe a couple of months jail or a fine for bail-jumping? Rather than spend another X years in the embassy, yup, I’d definitely see what they had to offer.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      26 February 2019 at 5:51 pm

                      McFlock, regarding ‘reopening‘, I was refering to your 3:16 pm 25 Feb. “crickets lol” comment (taunt?), posted some 40 hours after your 10:56 pm 23 Feb. comment, which might have been the last word in your back-and-forth with AT, but for ‘crickets lol’.

                      Since you already had the last word (10:56 pm 23 Feb), I interpreted (perhaps misinterpreted) your “crickets lol” comment, some 40 hour later, as a taunt to the effect that no-one had rebutted your ‘last words’.

                      I support your right to assert that if you were in Assange’s shoes you would walk out of the Ecuadorian embassy. We’re all individuals.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 February 2019 at 8:57 pm

                      I’d asked a genuine question, and got a non-answer. So I asked it again, and gave Adrian enough time to give a geniuine answer. So upon receiving none, I highlighted that fact.

                      Your scenario includes extradition to Guantanamo. That’s not why Guantanamo or indictments exist. To get to Guantanamo, he’d have to be kidnapped off the streets of London. Chain of custody records being what they are, he’d actually be safer in a British jail than walking around, if G was a genuine likelihood. And he’s pretty safe in the streets of London, because he’s famous. It would be difficult to anonymously kidnap him and then get him out of the country.

                      But G’s not in the picture for Assnge, because apparently the yanks are trying to run him through their legal process. That means public trials in the courts and appeals in the UK, then public trials and appeals in the USA. He’s rich and white, he’s got a better chance than most, even if they try to extradite him. And espionage against the US is much less a universal charge than sexual assault.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      26 February 2019 at 11:11 pm

                      The 40-hour separation between your consecutive replies to AT had me wondering why, so thanks for the explanation/justification, and kudos for “highlighting that fact“.

                      Agree that Gitmo seems a very unlikely final destination, but mental health facilities have been beefed up.

                      https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article213231219.html

                      Just for info., from The Guardian’s legal affairs correspondent Owen Bowcott (23 Jan 2019):

                      https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/julian-assange-launches-legal-challenge-against-trump-administration-extradition

                      “WikiLeaks founder’s lawyers file urgent application in attempt to prevent extradition to US“

                    • McFlock …
                      27 February 2019 at 12:01 am

                      I was busy Sunday 🙂

                      Interesting article. I doubt they’ll get anywhere though – they seem to be under the impression that the current US regime gives two fucks about pretending to give two fucks about international legal bodies. It’s difficult to get worse in that regard than some previous administrations, but this lot manage it.

      • Morrissey 10.3.2
        23 February 2019 at 8:19 pm

        So why doesn’t he walk out of the embassy?

        ??????????!!!!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?

        https://i0.wp.com/bobcesca.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/cant-tell-if-serious.jpg

  11. cleangreen 11
    23 February 2019 at 11:42 am

    This country (NZ) cannot go on having more people coming into use our infrastructure.

    We have such a ‘small tax base’ – so get used of more taxes; – until we have all our infrastructure system around NZ upgraded to a 21st century model, so we can cope to take more people.

    • Chris T 11.1
      23 February 2019 at 4:45 pm

      Is that from an Ardern speech?

      • Sabine 11.1.1
        23 February 2019 at 5:02 pm

        nah, it’s from John Key and Bill English when they raised the GST to 15% to make up for the Tax Cuts for the haves.

    • alwyn 11.2
      23 February 2019 at 6:31 pm

      It would probably be rather nice to have a 21st Century infrastructure in New Zealand.
      The problem is that our current Government seems to want to spend the money on early 20th century cycle tracks. 19th century railways and even earlier provisions for horses. What is it that makes Tsar Winston want to provide tax deductions for people who buy “pretty racehorses”?

      • KJT 11.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 10:10 pm

        Yes. Railways need upgrading to the 21st century. Electrification for a start.

        As for those gas guzzling, expensive mid 20th century trucks, and their insatiable demand for more and better roads.

        Time they were kicked to touch and replaced by rail, shipping, and electric or hydrogen powered, short haul.

    • greywarshark 12.1
      23 February 2019 at 12:57 pm

      FDOTM
      first dog on the moon – cartoon gives a succinct view of doings on the earth (the turd- like things that people do and leave etc.)

  13. Gabby 13
    23 February 2019 at 12:12 pm

    FuckTard Of The Month?

  14. joe90 14
    23 February 2019 at 1:16 pm

    Oh boy, this is brutal and after reading it I need a shower. But I doubt hot water and soap will cut it.

    (seriously, a grim, nauseating read so careful )

    https://www.lareviewofbooks.org/article/kompromat-or-revelations-from-the-unpublished-portions-of-andrea-manaforts-hacked-texts/

    • veutoviper 14.1
      23 February 2019 at 1:49 pm

      Agreed – warning to anyone reading it. You need to – but be prepared to be shocked even if you think you are shockproof.

  15. marty mars 15
    23 February 2019 at 3:32 pm

    yes the best thing for the animals was to kill them, the poor bastards.

    “Wellington Zoo has euthanised four male baboons after their social structure broke down.

    Habib,14, Osiris, 7, Les,17, and Rafiki,15, were all born at Wellington Zoo. They were put down on Saturday.

    They were the only baboons at the zoo, which has housed baboons since 1967…

    …Wellington Zoo animal welfare committee member Dr Ngaio Beausoleil said it was a tough decision – but the humane one.

    “It is Wellington Zoo’s responsibility to have the knowledge and experience to do what is best for the animals in their care.””

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110816348/wellington-zoo-euthanises-four-male-baboons

    Ban zoos.

    • Andre 15.1
      23 February 2019 at 3:50 pm

      Are you aware of the role some zoos play in the recovery of species about to go extinct?

      For instance, the San Diego Zoo played a big part in saving the California Condor from going extinct, and their Center for the Recovery of Endangered Species is currently active in many programs on their sites and out in the field. Auckland Zoo is active with the kakapo effort, native frogs, bats and insects, plus undoubtedly a whole lot more I’m not aware of.

      Even when zoos don’t have direct endangered species programs, they will often participate in worldwide breeding programs to maintain biodiversity. This is especially important for species that only have remnant populations in the wild.

      Yes, without zoos these programs might continue. But zoos are a good way to put together large and diverse teams of specialist professionals that really do work well together for these species recovery programs. As well as being effective places to publicise how badly fucked up our natural world is getting.

      • Sabine 15.1.1
        23 February 2019 at 5:05 pm

        that might be true, but essentially only because us humans are so prolific at killing of wilderness everywhere to the point where wildlife now needs to live in a Zoo in order to save the species.

        what i would like to know is why 4 baboons had to be killed. Socials structure break down, would that be the natural happening of a younger male maybe challenging and defeating an older male? and the response to that would be ‘kill them all and let god sort them’?

        So yeah, it would be nice why these four apes had to be destroyed in order to save the zoo or whatever.

        • Andre 15.1.1.1
          23 February 2019 at 5:34 pm

          Yeah, I’m fkn furious we humans have so badly fucked up the world we live in that those sorts of measures are needed. But compared to the emotional investment the people directly involved in species recovery put into their work – well – my anger seems like a token gesture. As much as we’d like it to be different, that’s the world we’ve made and live in and have to try to do our best with.

          • Sabine 15.1.1.1.1
            23 February 2019 at 5:49 pm

            essentially zoo’s should be shut down, one after the other. If we can’t have the species survive in the wilderness that we have not yet killed off then they don’t need to survive in a zoo just so that we have something to gawk on on days were we need entertainment.

        • greywarshark 15.1.1.2
          23 February 2019 at 9:43 pm

          The spokesperson said that others had already died, and a dynamic had been set up so that their behaviour was set on destructive and they expected that if left to work itself out, they would continue to attack, injure and kill each other.

      • marty mars 15.1.2
        23 February 2019 at 5:28 pm

        Sure, good on them. To me zoos are a disconnect from nature. I also have a dubious moral objection in that I believe in the intrinsic value of living entities in and of themselves, just for existing, and I feel zoos lower that value by objectifying the creatures no matter how many extra years they live. But the dubious bit is that my caring is also as exploitative as the zoos, just more speciesism.

        I also think it’s the way it goes that species go extinct. It’s more human hubris imo to try and stop them all because we can hardly stop any and why anyway? Cos we like them? Cos they were pretty? Cos the ecosystem will suffer? It’s all a bit silly really.

        • Andre 15.1.2.1
          23 February 2019 at 6:36 pm

          I’ve visited areas that have been re-wilded, and been privileged to see California Condors living back in the wild. Those experiences are some of the very few things that give me hope we can salvage something good from the disaster coming at us.

          That zoos might be refuges and reservoirs for re-establishing a natural world sometime in the future goes some way towards mitigating what’s wrong with them now. Further, most zoos have an honest commitment to continuously improving animal welfare. If they didn’t, I’d be a lot less willing to argue that they have redeeming features.

        • alwyn 15.1.2.2
          23 February 2019 at 7:11 pm

          Wow, when I said much the same thing about species becoming extinct a few days ago I was jumped on with hobnailed boots.
          I am pleased to see I am not the only person contributing to this site who doesn’t think that the current lot of species on earth at this date must never be allowed to change.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1.2.2.1
            23 February 2019 at 10:19 pm

            Alwyn, when you write in favour of allowing (some of) “the current lot of species on earth at this date” to ‘change’ [i.e. ‘go’ extinct], does that include Homo sapiens?

    • Gabby 15.2
      23 February 2019 at 5:20 pm

      They couldn’t send them off to other zoos then. Convenient that the humane option was the cheap one.

      • McFlock 15.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 5:57 pm

        Zoos trade and relocate animals all the time. Sucks to be a not-particularly-rare socially-maladjusted primate in a zoo on the arse-end of the planet.

  17. Exkiwiforces 17
    23 February 2019 at 5:31 pm

    Not sure if anyone has seen this article on the stuff.co.nz website? About EQC and the National Disaster Fund. Since 1988 the NDF was seen as a great big honey pot by the pollies and treated it as an IOU and that’s before we even start taking about “No Mates Party” who stopped paying into EQC in the 1990’s. To make matters even worst both EQC and the NDF while managed by the muppets at Treasury until recently.

    From my POV, It’s probably no wonder why there is a lot a talk of a CGT being introduced into NZ when the Neo Con/Lib vandals of both major parties since 1988 had their hand in the honey pot. Trying to rebuild the funds up a hurry before the next major natural disaster or CC related event without cutting all the Government Depts like the last bunch of muppets did, so they could get their so surplus and instead of trying to rebuild/ increase fund the NDF and EQC.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/110674808/plunder-how-the-bill-for-the-canterbury-earthquakes-was-passed-on

    • KJT 17.1
      23 February 2019 at 6:42 pm

      Not too much different from ACC, accumulating money to fatten it up for sale, and make the Government accounts look better, rather than paying out to claimants.

      We will see a lot more of this come to light as the Neo-liberal civil service, is slowly purged of ACTiods.

    • alwyn 17.2
      23 February 2019 at 6:47 pm

      When you read this story why don’t you also look at what the New Zealand First Party want to do with the Cullen Fund.
      They want the Government to spend the money on their own personal infrastructure projects.
      ““New Zealand First would encourage the fund’s managers to invest in infrastructure in New Zealand so it works for New Zealand’s long term interests,” says Mr Peters.”
      You can ignore most of the rest of the story. That is just Winnie’s usual b*s.
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1709/S00281/cullen-fund-performs-but-national-taxes-it.htm

      They aren’t the only ones of course. In fact I think only ACT has resisted the temptation.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103750310/nz-super-fund-keen-to-build-and-operate-aucklands-light-rail?rm=m
      When you see the word “unsolicited” you should of course take it with a very large dose of salt.

      Just what do you think is going to happen when the money is needed from about 2040 or so and it has all gone into politicians stupid hobby horses?
      The best thing to do with the Cullen Fund of course is to pay it back to individual taxpayers and encourage them to put it into their personal Super Funds.
      Then the taxpayer can provide the General Super from taxes as they do now. That is what is going to have to happen anyway once the bloody politicians have squandered away the Cullen Fund..

      • Ad 17.2.1
        23 February 2019 at 7:54 pm

        NZSuperFund and ACC already spend tonnes on NZ infrastructure projects.

        Peters should just take another sip and relax into his political easychair.

      • KJT 17.2.2
        23 February 2019 at 9:12 pm

        I agree. Super should be PAYGO, from taxes, as should Government investment.

        Privatising super has worked just as well as all the other privatisation. Putting money into private super schemes, is unlikely to survive the next GFC.
        Another reason why we all invest in houses.

        Better to invest more taxes in public works, education and development, which will increase the wealth available in future,

        However the level of infrastructure, services, health and housing investment required, either needs more taxes, or more borrowing.

        I favour more taxes, or QE, tempered by taxation, as borrowing means we all pay more in the long run. It just makes banks rich.

  18. One Two 18
    23 February 2019 at 5:40 pm

    Non-thermal effects: Wifi Frequencies

    Citations:

    Cellular DNA damage
    Glaser (1971); Yakymenko et al. (1999); Aitken and De Iuliis (2007); Hardell and Sage (2008); Hazout et al. (2008); Phillips et al. (2009); Ruediger (2009); Makker et al. (2009); Yakymenko and Sidorik (2010); Batista Napotnik et al. (2010); Yakymenko et al. (2011); Pall, 2013, Pall, 2015b; Asghari et al. (2016); Pall (2018)

    Changes in testis structure, lowered sperm count/quality:
    Glaser (1971); Tolgskaya and Gordon (1973); Aitken and De Iuliis (2007); Hazout et al. (2008); Desai et al. (2009); Gye and Park (2012); Nazıroğlu et al. (2013); Carpenter (2013); Adams et al. (2014); Liu et al. (2014); Houston et al. (2016); La Vignera et al. (2012); Makker et al. (2009)

    Neurological/neuropsychiatric effects
    Glaser (1971); Tolgskaya and Gordon (1973); Raines (1981); Lai (1994); Grigor’ev (1996); Hardell and Sage (2008); Makker et al. (2009); Khurana et al. (2010); Levitt and Lai (2010); Consales et al. (2012); Carpenter (2013); Pall (2016b); Belyaev et al. (2016); Kaplan et al., 2016, Sangün et al., 2016

    Apoptosis/cell death
    Glaser (1971); Tolgskaya and Gordon (1973); Raines (1981); Yakymenko et al. (1999); Batista Napotnik et al. (2010); Yakymenko and Sidorik (2010); Pall, 2013, Pall, 2016b; Asghari et al. (2016); Sangün et al. (2016)

    Calcium overload
    Adey, 1981, Adey, 1988; Walleczek (1992); Yakymenko et al. (1999); Gye and Park (2012); Pall, 2013, Pall, 2015a, Pall, 2015b, Pall, 2016a, Pall, 2016b); Asghari et al. (2016)

    Endocrine effects
    Glaser (1971); Tolgskaya and Gordon (1973); Raines (1981); Hardell and Sage (2008); Gye and Park (2012); Hardell and Sage (2008); Makker et al. (2009); Pall (2015b); Sangün et al. (2016); Asghari et al. (2016)

    Oxidative stress, free radical damage
    Raines (1981); Houston et al. (2016); Hardell and Sage (2008); Hazout et al. (2008); Desai et al. (2009); Yakymenko and Sidorik (2010); Yakymenko et al. (2011); Consales et al. (2012); La Vignera et al. (2012); Nazıroğlu et al. (2013); Yakymenko et al. (2015); Pall, 2013, Pall, 2018; Dasdag and Akdag (2016); Wang and Zhang (2017)

  19. CHCoff 19
    23 February 2019 at 5:52 pm

    ‘European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker plans to write to Orban to congratulate him on his victory, according to a commission spokesman. “The European Union is a union of democracy and values,” he said, adding that defending these principles and values is the duty of all member states…

    ….But German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer, who is also the chairman of the Bavarian conservative party CSU, was a very prominent exception.

    “I’m happy about his electoral victory, which was once again a very clear one,” Seehofer told reporters in Munich.’

    https://www.dw.com/en/european-right-greets-viktor-orbans-hungary-win/a-43307193

    ‘By the close of the ongoing budget negotiations in November 2018, Germany will have to decide on the future of its armed forces’ long-term recovery. ‘

    https://dgap.org/en/think-tank/publications/dgapanalyse-compact/responsible-defense-policy

    ‘A German return to traditional power politics certainly has its risks. But the alternative is to maintain the status quo and forego a joint EU security policy…’

    https://www.neweurope.eu/article/will-germany-permit-joint-european-security/

    As they say, & these are just some examples, like begets like (ahem, Brexit folly). Most societies will have unaccountable elites to some degree. It is inevitable that as the current cycle stumbles with the inevitable multiple pressures of a reset, increasingly chaotically, that the pockets of such elites will emboldenly pressure increasingly regressive directions to put off their further social dislocations to the redundancies of unwarranted privilege and having to pay their tab, by filling the vacuums.

    The alternative is classical commonwealth trading practises, which derive from civic societal structures & virtues, internally & thus in due course to external added value relations. Despite our own Natia, NZ isn’t far, relatively, from the potential in it’s general cultural fabric & approach to be a contributing template setter to a different type of winning with trading block associations.

  21. Morrissey 21
    23 February 2019 at 7:34 pm

    Jonathan Pie on Labour’s Hopeless Eight
    and their Conservative Party “allies”.

  22. Morrissey 22
    23 February 2019 at 7:37 pm

    Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton, and Diego Sequera discuss
    billionaire tax-evader Richard Bastard’s concert for Trump

    Also talking about the obscene P.R. stunt with politicized “aid” and the Maidan-style snipers and other provocations of the Venezuelan right wing.

  24. Muttonbird 24
    23 February 2019 at 9:53 pm

    A returned Labour-led government and CGT in some form is looking good. My conservative old Dad read out Bernard Hickey’s piece from the other day over dinner tonight and is in total agreement that productivity and investment has been skewed in this country because no-one has had the guts to do it so far.

    Also, Ardern and Robertson have played this well because to argue against a CGT on property now looks mean and out of touch.

    Once the government have consensus on what parts of the TWG CGT recommendations they are going to proceed with, Ardern needs to prepare a ground-shaking, nation-changing speech about why this simple act is crucial to the healthy future of this country. She needs to have points in it which are easily revisited and recounted every single time they are required over the next 18 months.

    The greedy Nat voters who have had their hand out for free gains over the last 20 years will have no shame in demanding their gravy train continues. Their screeching needs to be calmly rebutted.

    Jacinda Ardern has the ability to change this nation for the better forever. It’s a 100 year moment coming up folks. Let’s back her.

  25. patricia bremner 25
    23 February 2019 at 9:53 pm

    Yes Rata, and when you get told by Bewildered not to rely on any Government, when he/she is so obviously a Tory LOL LOL. Comments from that person have always dissed the Coalition and lauded National.
    We definitely need a Labour led Government for 3 electoral terms to establish a fairer system.

  26. Fireblade 26
    23 February 2019 at 10:07 pm

    The Kiwi way of life. An inspirational message from Simon Bridges.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/simonjbridges/status/1099167384349200384

    He’s a superstar!

    • Muttonbird 26.1
      23 February 2019 at 10:28 pm

      Jesus, what a car crash.

      That’s his response to criticism of his misguided “Kiwi way of life” gaffe? To double down by crying how tough he had it as a kid?

    • McFlock 26.2
      23 February 2019 at 10:36 pm

      I’m going to miss that dear little lamb when Judith finally eats his liver with wine and chianti.

    • Cinder 26.3
      23 February 2019 at 11:54 pm

      And that was quite a put down of West Auckland, way to go Soimon.

      I assume his PR team didn’t vet that tweet.

      • Muttonbird 26.3.1
        24 February 2019 at 12:06 am

        It was a put down of West Auckland. He spat it out, or is that just his faux accent?

        Also interesting was his claim that his parents didn’t own their home when he was growing up, and that that was “doing it tough” and “being on the breadline”. Only education got him through the horrors of living in a rental!

        If today’s Waitakere Man thinks Bridges is batting for him, he is mistaken.

  27. Muttonbird 27
    23 February 2019 at 10:18 pm

    Umm. Lime, disruptive tech star-up, app driven new kids on the block, resort to good old automated email spam to try to drum up support for their failed scooters.

    Not sure the council is going to be too happy about considering their case after this stunt.

    Why am I underwhelmed by their protest action, and the method of protest, having injured hundreds of people after dumped 1500 scooters on the street on NZ with not a care in the world.

    I was out and about in Auckland today and it was Lime-free. It was a beautiful sight.

    Get rid of them.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/02/lime-calls-for-transport-revolution-users-to-email-support-to-auckland-council.html

  28. joe90 28
    23 February 2019 at 10:36 pm

    Big Pharma oppression howls in 3… 2….

    YouTube on Friday said it would prevent channels that promote anti-vax content from running advertising, saying explicitly that such videos fall under its policy prohibiting the monetization of videos with “dangerous and harmful” content. The move comes after advertisers on YouTube pulled their ads from these videos, following inquiries from BuzzFeed News.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/youtube-just-demonetized-anti-vax-channels

  29. Eco Maori 29
    24 February 2019 at 11:52 am

    On the night he cheated the Amercian people of the White House Administration.
    Eco Maori could see on trumps and his whanau face that they could not beleve there reality they had cheated and WON The President of The Power Fullest Country of the Papatuanuku.
    That is a big problem to the welbeing of te mokopuna and the world as he started changing good enviromet rules in favour of his Oil Barron M8 at the expence of te mokopunas future hence trump GETS ECO MAORI,s FULL WRATH P.S A Kumra never tells how sweet it is
    US special counsel Robert Mueller’s Trump-Russia report is there in plain view
    Donald Trump was in full deflection mode.
    The Democrats had blamed Russia for the hacking and release of damaging material on his presidential opponent, Hillary Clinton. Trump wasn’t buying it. But on July 27, 2016, midway through a news conference in Florida, Trump decided to entertain the thought for a moment.
    “Russia, if you’re listening,” said Trump, looking directly into a television camera, “I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing” – messages Clinton was reported to have deleted from her private email server.
    Actually, Russia was doing more than listening: It had been trying to help Republican Trump for months. That very day, hackers working with Russia’s military intelligence tried to break into email accounts associated with Clinton’s personal office.
    It was just one small part of a sophisticated election interference operation carried out by the Kremlin – and meticulously chronicled by special counsel Robert Mueller.
    RUSSIA, LOOKING TO INTERFERE
    The plot began before Bernie Bros and “Lock Her Up,” before MAGA hats and “Lyin’ Ted,” before there was even a thought of Trump versus Clinton in 2016. It started in 2014, in a drab, concrete building in St Petersburg, Russia.
    There, a group of tech-savvy Russian nationals, working at an organisation called the Internet Research Agency, prepared “information warfare against the United States of America.” The battleground would be the internet, and the target was the 2016 US presidential election.
    Using a game plan honed on its own people, the troll farm prepared to pervert the social networks – Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Instagram – that Americans had come to depend on for news, entertainment, friendships and, most relevantly, political discourse.

    It was a long game. Starting in mid-2014, employees began studying American political groups to see which messages fell flat and which spread like wildfire across the internet. The organisation surreptitiously dispatched employees to the US – travelling through states such as Nevada, California and Colorado – to collect on-the-ground intelligence about an America that had become deeply divided on gun control, race and politics.
    As they gathered the research, the trolls began planning an elaborate deception.
    They bought server space and other computer infrastructure in the US to conceal the true origin of the disinformation they planned to pump into America’s social media blood stream. They began preparing networks of fake accounts they would use like sock puppets to masquerade as US citizens.
    The Russian trolls set up accounts that appeared to be associated with Black Lives Matter, the Tennessee GOP, Muslim and Christian groups and the American South. By late 2015, as Clinton sparred with Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, her rival for the Democratic nomination, and as American media still saw Trump as a longshot to emerge from a crowded Republican field, the Internet Research Agency began secretly buying online ads to promote its social media groups.

    Smelling a possible political advantage, the Trump campaign reached out to Roger Stone, a close confidant of Trump’s who is known for his bare-knuckles brand of political mischief. Stone had been claiming to have connections to WikiLeaks, and campaign officials were looking to find out when Wikileaks would drop its next batch of documents.
    According to an indictment against Stone, after the first release of DNC documents, “a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact Stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information” WikiLeaks had regarding Clinton’s campaign.
    In August, Stone began claiming he had inside information into Assange’s plans. At the same time, he was privately sending messages to a radio host and a conservative conspiracy theorist – both of whom had claimed to have connections to WikiLeaks – seeking anything they knew. (No evidence has emerged that these messages made it to Assange).

    The deceptions played out as Mueller methodically brought criminal cases. He indicted the Russian hackers. He did the same to the troll farm. He exposed Manafort’s tax cheating and his illicit foreign lobbying, winning at trial and putting the 69-year-old political operative at risk of spending the rest of his life in prison. And one by one, his team got guilty pleas from Flynn, Papadopoulos and others.
    Most recently, he indicted Stone, accusing him of witness tampering and lying to Congress about his efforts to glean information about the WikiLeaks disclosures. Despite emails showing him repeatedly discussing WikiLeaks with Trump advisers and others, Stone told lawmakers he had no records of that sort. (Stone has pleaded not guilty.)
    In the backdrop of all this is Trump and his family.
    Mueller’s grand jury heard testimony from several participants of the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting arranged by Trump Jr, but no charges have been filed.
    The mercurial president himself has made no secret of his disdain for the Mueller investigation and his efforts to undermine it. Mueller has investigated whether any of Trump’s actions constituted obstruction of justice, but the special counsel hasn’t gone public with what he found. Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/110203530/trump-advisers-lied-and-lied–mueller?rm=a

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/109054622/us-congressman-suggests-trump-adviser-roger-stone-may-have-lied-about-assange?rm=a

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/103293553/democratic-party-files-lawsuit-against-russia-trump-campaign-alleging-conspiracy?rm=a

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/110821699/us-special-counsel-robert-muellers-russia-report-is-there-in-plain-view–but-may-never-be-released

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQPwcUdV5T4
    Our 21,s Century Communications Device can be used for bad shit but every bit of data can be traced one can not hide anything if the resorces are given to find the data for NOW.
    Once Arificial Intelligence is here that phenomen will change and the people in control of that power will have the ultimate power to manipulate te Papatunuku,s DATA Thats a fact.

  30. Eco Maori 30
    24 February 2019 at 1:02 pm

    Today is a day to be thankful to OUR Tipuna for the Mana they gave us as I watch the finals of Te Matatini it gives me a sore face .
    For its was our tipuna,s who shaped our Papatunuku to the reality we have to day.
    I watch Te Matatini and Know that the whole Papatuanuku can see Te Aotearoa,s Tangata Whenua.s Culture,s and Mana on display this is one of the reason,s that Eco Maori is proud to be a MAORI our Tipuna is another .
    It is our tipuna to thank for us still having this GREAT Mana and knowone else they made the best moves they could to give us there Desendants Mokopuna,s the Mana we have Bestowed on MAORIOM TODAY Kia Kaha Ka kite ano P.S Some one is making me hungry

  31. Eco Maori 31
    24 February 2019 at 3:11 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.
    https://youtu.be/iO_WxYC34eM

  32. Eco Maori 32
    24 February 2019 at 4:30 pm

    Kia ora The best tangata on the day won Te Matatini Tamaki Makaurau won the first prize after many years of trying to win the ultimate prize in Maoridom well deserved Eco Maori says Kia kaha to all Ka kite ano

  33. Eco Maori 33
    24 February 2019 at 5:30 pm

    A Eco Maori video for the minute.
    https://youtu.be/7UP8tOpV8FQ

  34. Eco Maori 34
    24 February 2019 at 6:35 pm

    Kia ora Newshub Rental housing getting a shake up by our government it is usually the poor people that end up in bad housing as discrimination plays a major part in tangata getting good homes for their tamariki.
    YEA the housing short tsunami is still rolling in this will take our government a little while to get undercontrol good housing is getting very hard to find .
    Wairoa a beautiful little town got a few whanau there.
    Shut up that lawyer putting his spin on that story on R Kelly.
    Te Matatini was great and is getting greater the next competition is in this years winners home of Tamaki Makaurau Ka pai
    That’s awesome the tamariki getting earimplants his first words Mama so cool it won’t be long before chips implanted in the nervous system that will make us even more advanced .
    Ka kite ano

  35. Eco Maori 35
    25 February 2019 at 8:43 am

    Kia ora The AM Show insulationing a house and having good heating will save the tenants money on power and best of all save on health cost that action will save lives to.
    Exactly duncan.
    You got your m8 on early duncan no Atoearoa does not trust you simon with the economy. Only people that haven’t grown up like Mark and duncan do they have self-serving egos .
    The transport agency is showing your legacy its a mess. Electric cars need to be subsidise to decrease the amount of carbon we burn building 4 Lane highway and scraping our rail is the worst thing one could do to our environment We all know who are national party big donaters are big civil construction companies they would have loved creaming that big flat 2 Lane Highway in Tauranga??? you gifted to them.
    I have all ready educated te tangata on the positive,s of a capital gains tax it will slow Aotearoa,s capital from being syphoned off over Seas.
    Mark you would not servive all the low down dirty tactics that goes down in the national party it will be like leaving a hyena in a room with a lamb you will not be able servive that lol.
    Good on the Stars for showing their support of Harry & Megan and putting on a big baby shower some trolls don’t treat them respectfully.
    Yes Phil safety is a Priority as humans don’t have 2 lives so we you must protect te tangata lives no ifs no buts make sure the lime scooters are safe Ka pai. Building a good stadium for our stars in down town Auckland will be a lot better than up grading Eden Park with all the ristrictions that are placed on the uses of Eden Park.
    Frank it looks cold up there it’s cold in Rotorua.
    Good teacher are a must and teaching tamariki that failure is just part of life.
    A good teacher engages students on their level.
    Fireworks should be only used by professionals they are big boys toys alot of young children are actually scared of them so are animals. Matariki should be celebrated as it is tangata whenua culture that needs reviveing as te culture has been suppressed.
    It Just depended on how hard I’m working at the time if I was not stuffed after a HARD DAYS WORK I would help with most dermestic duties I don’t like folding clothes thou Ka kite ano

  36. Eco Maori 36
    25 February 2019 at 10:11 am

    He started out with all the power and he thought he was untouchable so much for being the best deal maker in the world he has just pissed the world off and is getting his reward for doing that Ana to kai
    You’re fired!’ America has already terminated Trump
    The Mueller report looms but the president is doomed anyway – no one who screws the people so blatantly can win re-election
    When the public fires a president before election day, as it did Jimmy Carter, Nixon and Herbert Hoover, they don’t send him a letter telling him he’s fired.
    They just make him irrelevant. Politics happens around him, despite him. He’s not literally gone but he might as well be.
    It’s happened to Trump. The courts and House Democrats are moving against him. Senate Republicans are quietly subverting him. Even Mitch McConnell told him to end the shutdown.
    The Fed is running economic policy. Top-level civil servants are managing day-to-day work of the agencies.
    Isolated in the White House, distrustful of aides, at odds with intelligence agencies, distant from his cabinet heads, Trump has no system to make or implement decisions.
    His tweets don’t create headlines as before. His rallies are ignored. His lies have become old hat.

    Dear Mr President,
    While many of us disagree on ideology and values, we agree on practical things like obeying the constitution and not letting big corporations and the wealthy run everything.
    Your 35-day government shutdown was a senseless abuse of power. So too your “national emergency” to build your wall with money Congress refused to appropriate.
    When you passed your tax bill you promised our paychecks would rise by an average of $4,000 but we never got the raise. Our employers used the tax savings to buy back their shares of stock and give themselves raises instead.
    Then you fooled us into thinking we were getting a cut by lowering the amounts withheld from our 2018 paychecks. We know that now because we’re getting smaller tax refunds.
    At the same time, many big corporations aren’t paying a dime in taxes. Worse yet, they’re getting refunds.
    For example, GM is paying zilch and claiming a $104m refund on $11.8bn of profits. Amazon is paying no taxes and claiming a $129m refund on profits of $11.2bn. (This is after New York offered it $3bn to put its second headquarters there.)
    They aren’t breaking any tax laws or regulations. That’s because they made the tax laws and regulations. You gave them a free hand.
    You’re supposed to be working for us, not for giant corporations. But they’re doing better than ever, as are their top executives and biggest investors. Yet nothing has trickled down. We’re getting shafted.
    Which is why more than 75% of us (including 45% who call ourselves Republicans) support Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s proposed 70% tax on dollars earned in excess of $10m a year.
    And over 60% of us support Elizabeth Warren’s proposed 2% annual tax on households with a new worth of $50m or more.
    You’ve also shown you don’t have a clue about healthcare. You promised us something better than the Affordable Care Act but all you’ve done is whittle it back.
    A big reason we gave Democrats control of the House last November was your threat to eliminate protection for people with pre-existing conditions.
    Are you even aware that 70% of us now favor Medicare for all?
    Most of us don’t pay much attention to national policy but we pay a lot of attention to home economics. You’ve made our own home economics worse.

    We’ll give you official notice you’re fired on 3 November 2020, if not before. Until then, you can keep the house and perks, but you’re toast.
    Respectfully,
    America.
    Ka kite ano Ana to kai links below P.S Te Wahine are rallying agains the domanaint old neanderthals who think that,s lifes all about the money over a humane and Equality of life for all

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/24/youre-fired-america-has-already-terminated-trump

  37. Eco Maori 37
    25 February 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  38. Eco Maori 38
    25 February 2019 at 2:16 pm

    Kia kaha tamariki it is your Papatuanuku that the neanderthals are making a big mess of at the moment hope is here and now let your voices be heard let everyone know you want a healthy happy humane futures for all this can be OUR Reality as the many can over ride the 00.1% who run the world at the minute . The tipping point is happening{{{ NOW}}}
    Christchurch pupils to strike as part of global climate change action
    Christchurch pupils will stage a school “strike” and protest in the street as part of a global campaign for action on climate change.
    The rally, scheduled for March 15, will run alongside several other marches across the country in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland as part of a movement known as Schools 4 Climate Action. Tens of thousands of young people in at least two dozen countries and nearly 30 American states plan to skip school on the same day to protest.
    Globally, their message is clear. They are sick of waiting for adults to save their world so they are going to do it themselves.
    The movement began with 15-year-old Greta Thunberg, from Sweden, skipping class to sit outside government buildings because she believed her country was not following the Paris Climate Agreement. Since then, children across Europe and Australia have been inspired to hold their own demonstrations.
    Christchurch event co-ordinator Lucy Gray, 12, said the march was an “awesome opportunity for students to stand up for what they believe in”.
    University of Canterbury student Bridget White encouraged people no longer in school to attend the march, which will begin at Cathedral Square at 1pm. There will be music, guest speakers and cultural showcases from schools around the city.
    Ka kite ano Links below P.S Eco Maori Knows how tech works and I make sure that te tangata I tau toko is worthy

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/74520024/null?rm=m

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/110702878/christchurch-pupils-to-strike-as-part-of-global-climate-change-action

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