Open mike 25/01/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 25th, 2023 - 82 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

82 comments on “Open mike 25/01/2023 ”

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  1. Muttonbird 1
    25 January 2023 at 7:15 am

    Conservative writer for and about Asian perspectives, Dileepa Fonseka, has an issue with Chris Hipkins already.

    The incoming PM spoke too much about where he comes from and not enough about the Lunar New Year!

    Mr Fonseka feels immigrants new and old are being ignored because they don't know where the Hutt Valley is, therefore it is exclusionary to mention it. Why then does he spend half his article on referencing 1981 play Foreskin's Lament and the apparent dangers of Labour government borrowing 50 years past? Hardly accessible concepts for his audience.

    He infers parallels between this government and the pace of change by the Kirk government and the upset that caused conservative voters, and references the apparent rise of Paul Spoonley's "working-class conservative". I suspect Dileepa's real audience are voters Asian and non-Asian who might like the spread the word that Hipkins is no good.

    The writer complains about the new PM mentioning his local Cossie Club, but it might be worth him looking up the word, "cosmopolitan", and see what it says about diversity:

    cosmopolitan

    adjective

    1. including people from many different countries.

    "immigration transformed the city into a cosmopolitan metropolis"

    Similar: international, multiracial, worldwide, global, universal

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131051861/dileepa-fonseka-chris-hipkins-saying-cossie-clubs-misses-the-new-working-class

    • Peter 1.1
      25 January 2023 at 7:43 am

      Fonseka is just a writer trying to find an angle to justify being in work.

      Maybe today one of his colleagues will fashion a piece about Hopkins being 'anti sports' and not interested in sports people because he hasn't included those in his initial comments.

      Or doesn't care about old people as shown by not referring to retirement villages.

    • mary_a 1.2
      25 January 2023 at 2:52 pm

      @ Muttonbird (1) Thanks for this …

      Here we go … and we are off to a nit picking start already, before PM Chris Hipkins has even been sworn in as our Prime Minister! For crying out loud.

      Amongst other things, our poor Jacinda wore herself down, trying to be everything to everyone in NZ!

    • SPC 1.3
      25 January 2023 at 6:05 pm

      Fonseca is a shill for the migrant worker pipeline to business class interest.

      An apologetic that the migrant worker is the new working class is of a design to obstruct labour focus on worker training, fair pay/industry awards, standards/regulations for businesses employing migrant labour.

      This “salt of the earth” routine is an attempt to prevent a backlash similar to the one seen when Labour was elected with a thumping majority under Norman Kirk in 1972. Kirk had big plans and ushered in big changes, but by 1975 inflation was soaring, the country had borrowed heavily, and it had been hit by an oil shock.

      The pace of change had disillusioned some of the conservative voters who had voted for Kirk, and then the major economic problems, like heavy government borrowing and skyrocketing inflation, had dislodged Labour’s urban “working-class” supporters.

      Utter tosh, what pace of change? This is a specious effort to imply a comparison to the here and now (the only one is inflation). There was some economic insecurity because the loss of the UK market (EEC) and this together with the oil price shock impacted the BOP (and because this was pre floating the currency it was hard to make the right economic adjustment). National had no response either and thus 75-84 was a waste of 9 years (they needed to float and NAFTA 1967 to CER by 1978, not 1984).

      “When he can afford to be really intellectual, he starts worrying about the mortgage, and the missus, and his next naughty on the side.

      Here Fonseca is a shill for a business class who covet a generation of working class people who pay rent rather than own homes, because they do not want to pay people enough to own homes – they want a constant supply line of low wage migrant labour to exploit.

      A future where National and a migrant labour supply on tap are the future of our economic and political society is a nightmare scenario.

      Posing labour as of the past for getting in the way is classic apologetic for neo-liberalism global market hegemony.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3.1
        25 January 2023 at 6:18 pm

        a business class who covet a generation of working class people who pay rent rather than own homes, because they do not want to pay people enough to own homes – they want a constant supply line of low wage migrant labour to exploit.

        Well summed ! Queenstown be the epitome of that, but theres nowhere to even rent …to paraphrase that famous song "Work and pray, live on hay"… and in a tent : (

      • Muttonbird 1.3.2
        25 January 2023 at 6:37 pm

        Cheers for that.

        This is why I comment here, to get ideas down on paper so others more knowledgeable can pick it up and expand.

        Always been suspicious about Fonseka's motivations and wanted to make that point so everyone can see and understand when they read him next time that his loyalties lie with NACT and open tap rather than managed immigration.

  2. tsmithfield 2
    25 January 2023 at 7:30 am

    Hipkins intends to reprioritise the government's focus this year likely away from some of the policies that have been unpopular or controversial.

    One major problem for Hipkins in this strategy, is that it leaves the government open to a very simple and compelling response from National. That is:

    "If you want to be sure that the policies you hate aren't regurgitated after the election, then vote National."

    I imagine policies such as the RNZ/TVNZ merger will get the chop. But one of the tricky policies will be Three Waters. This is already a long way down the track with a lot set up. So, it is going to be very difficult to ditch this policy now.

    • Muttonbird 2.1
      25 January 2023 at 7:37 am

      How will voters know what National Party policies they like or hate?

      There simply aren't any.

      • tsmithfield 2.1.1
        25 January 2023 at 8:00 am

        Not so much core National voters. More swing voters who hate some of those policies for whatever reason.

    • Maurice 2.2
      25 January 2023 at 7:40 am

      Indeed. Eye watering amounts have already been spent on 5 waters (as it is now) with the new 'authorities' set up and staffed up to eight months before the legislation was passed in Parliament. Councils were instructed this week to remove water assets from their balance sheets for the 2024 financial year – so locals were informed yesterday. (no link just verbal from the council).

      No doubt HUGE compensation and redundancy will be demanded if it is cancelled.

      • tsmithfield 2.2.1
        25 January 2023 at 8:47 am

        Personally, I don't think they can scrap 3/5 Waters now.

        But, Hipkins might tinker with the co-governance aspect as that seems to be causing a lot of agnst about the policy. Though, that would likely buy a big fight with the Maori Caucus.

        • Muttonbird 2.2.1.1
          25 January 2023 at 8:52 am

          Yes, consensus left and right is that water reform is necessary, just no Maoris please.

          • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.2.1.1.1
            25 January 2023 at 8:59 am

            just no Maoris please.

            Yeah…that is a sad but true. On that….I read this. History an all…

            For the first time in 76 years, the 28th Māori Battalion Battle Honours memorial flag will be fully displayed and recognised in Rotorua for Waitangi Day.

            Great !….but then I read on….: (

            Soldiers who fought in the battalion weren't allowed to enter RSAs, hotels and other public places, and were told to leave.

            More than 600 soldiers who fought in the battalion never received their medals either.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483036/28th-maori-battalion-battle-honours-memorial-flag-to-fly-in-rotorua-for-waitangi-day

            I get that "most" NZers are 100% different in attitudes now.

            But there is still a racist chunk..who arent. As shown daily….

            • Scud 2.2.1.1.1.1
              25 January 2023 at 4:00 pm

              BTW, Quite a lot of WW2 Veterans never received their Gongs besides the 28th.

              A large number & I mean a large number of the 3rd NZ Div never received theirs & nor did those serving with NZ Homes Forces Command who were mobilise during the Japanese Scare between December 41 to early 43 when the last Units were stood down.

              And that's before we start looking at the rest from WW2 or even further back to WW1.

              There are Thousands of Thousands of unclaimed Gongs sitting in a vault somewhere in Trentham from WW1 to WW2.

              • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                25 January 2023 at 4:42 pm

                Well..thats pretty sad ? Surely some few could be assigned to sort that out? I'd say there would be Interest..even from an Historical point.

                • Scud …
                  25 January 2023 at 6:18 pm

                  In many cases, like those assign to NZ Home Forces Command in WW2 like my NZ Grandfather was, he didn't even know he had a couple of Gongs until the RSA change their membership Rules in the late 90's as he need his War Services Records & 2 or 3 Gongs arrived with War Service Records. Needless to say, he & Grandma were a tad shock & so was Mr Gladstone their neighbours in Bronte St in Nelson who ex 27th MG Battalion 1939-45 who finished up in Italy with a Italian war wife.

                  His brother was in 3 NZ Div and the way that was treated during its draw down in late 43-44 was quite shocking and it no surprising that most of them never got their respective gongs.

                  Then you have the Next Of Kin who had Family members KIA or WIA never received their Gongs either.

                  As the Willie Walker Former RSM-A & ex Tankie (not of Long Tan Fame), who I last spoke in Nov 2017. Who was in charge of the NZDF Medals & Awards Dept. Said it's a Kiwi thing most, as Kiwi Families rather forget the about the Wars etc & they got on with life post conflict. Because in the end, the average Kiwi Male is Pacifist as we only to war when we need too as we rather be working, playing sport, fishing/ hunting, going to the races or doing whatever as we find war a bloody inconvenience.

                  Thence NZ's fighting reputation, even though Peacekeeping as Nation that you don't Fuck with unless you have signed your own death warrant.

                  But we need to keep them, because eventually someone does write in too claim pops or uncle's gongs etc. As attitudes do change or one is doing a family history etc.

              • Shanreagh …
                25 January 2023 at 7:39 pm

                Just recently TPK (Te Puna Kokiri) had initiated work to track down the recipients of unclaimed Maori batallion medals

                https://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/mo-te-puni-kokiri/our-stories-and-media/returning-unclaimed-war-medals-to-whanau

                They came on a bit of a roadshow to several small towns around Wellington eg Otaki.

                I am sure that genealogists could help locate families of unclaimed medals. Genealogists worked with Nat Lib to locate families of many soldiers whose pictures were taken at photographic studios before they embarked to go overseas.

                I do know that there will be the ones like my sister's father in law who refused to claim his medals. Apparently there was a process to go though and his words were:

                'They know my address, it is on my enlistment documents, they should send them to me I shouldn't have to apply for them.'

                I am not sure whether to this day anyone from the family has claimed

                I am not sure what the process entailed, possibly a form & witnessed declaration.. There seemed to be some sort of signed form on the documents that came from NZDF when we applied for our dad's service records.

      • weka 2.2.2
        25 January 2023 at 9:03 am

        what are the other two waters?

        • Mac1 2.2.2.1
          25 January 2023 at 9:08 am

          "Holy' and 'swamp'.They seem to resonate with the belief systems of our disaffected. Or am I just taking the piss/

        • Maurice 2.2.2.2
          25 January 2023 at 9:18 am

          1) Fresh [White?] Water 2) Storm Water 3) Brown [Grey?] Water to which were added 4) Coastal Water and 5) Geothermal Water at the Select Committee stage.

          • weka 2.2.2.2.1
            25 January 2023 at 10:18 am

            Ta. Funny, because when I first heard about 3 Waters I assume they meant something like fresh water, oceans, and human uses.

            • Visubversa 2.2.2.2.1.1
              25 January 2023 at 1:21 pm

              The original "3 Waters" was Freshwater (the stuff that comes out of your tap), Wastewater (the stuff that comes out of your sinks, baths, toilet etc) and Stormwater (the stuff that falls out of the sky).

              The first 2 you can charge for either providing, or taking away. The last one is a bit of a nuisance as it just arrives and has to be managed without providing any sort of return. It is however, very important as the others all depend on it eventually!

      • Louis 2.2.3
        26 January 2023 at 11:05 am

        It is not 5 waters.

        "critics (including former deputy prime minister Winston Peters, and the National Party) that the government's reforms aren't Three Waters, but "Five Waters."

        But the prime minister insisted that was not the case.

        "I've read the legislation, it does not change the scope. It's a reference to the impact that if you pump for instance wastewater into the ocean, it has an impact on coastal water," Jacinda Ardern said on Tuesday.

        But she acknowledged that part of the bill could be clarified.

        "It has caused potentially some confusion. So we'll ask the drafters whether there's a way to make it much clearer."

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/479301/government-moves-to-address-three-waters-confusion

        • Maurice 2.2.3.1
          26 January 2023 at 12:45 pm

          Ah! The One Source of Truth …. that's it then

          Or perhaps ALL WATERS?

          Gathering it all together and removing it from Council balance sheets makes it so much easier to privatise/sell surely?

          • Louis 2.2.3.1.1
            26 January 2023 at 3:32 pm

            Well the truth is certainly not coming from you Maurice. Three waters reforms will make it harder to a future National govt to flog it off.

            How can communities be sure these assets will not be privatised?

            "Continued public ownership of these water services is a bottom line for the Government. Safeguards against future privatisation will be written into legislation to maintain ongoing ownership of the new entities by local authorities elected by communities. Beyond that, the Government will make communities the ultimate guardians of public ownership through a public referendum with any future proposal for privatisation requiring 75 per cent of votes in favour to carry it.

            Additionally, any surpluses would have to be reinvested in water services to address significant infrastructure deficits, making the entities an unattractive proposition for investors. The involvement of iwi/Māori, with councils, in the strategic oversight and direction of the entities will enhance these protections"

            https://www.dia.govt.nz/three-waters-reform-programme-frequently-asked-questions

            From the same link

            "Councils will collectively own the water services entities providing services for their district, on behalf of their communities.

            Communities will therefore retain an influence on three waters assets and services through their council and through other consumer and community interest forums"

    • weka 2.3
      25 January 2023 at 9:05 am

      they don't have to ditch 3 Waters, they just need to make sure the process brings people along instead of enforcing change that people either object to or don't understand. Remember the 80s? Yeah, let's not do that again.

      I don't know if Labour or the central government departments understand how to do this. Or maybe they've been thinking they can force it through. Hope the lesson has been learned.

    • Louis 2.4
      26 January 2023 at 11:01 am

      Three waters legislation is too far along to be pulled back. Water Services Entities Bill has already passed and the remaining pieces of legislation are at the committee stage.

  3. ianmac 3
    25 January 2023 at 8:32 am

    Morning Report and what a swamp for Luxon to get caught in! Poor chap was totally confused about his anti-co-governence position. Corin Dann showed the terrible inconsistency of his position. Luxon did his usual word salad in defence.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018874960

    • Grey Area 3.1
      25 January 2023 at 8:53 am

      Guyon Espiner. But yes Luxon was flapping around like a fish out of water.

      • ianmac 3.1.1
        25 January 2023 at 9:05 am

        Thanks Grey. Maybe that it was because it was Espiner that Luxon was being held to account. On reflection Dann would have helped Luxon get a more coherent answer.

    • Mike the Lefty 3.2
      25 January 2023 at 1:33 pm

      NZ ratepayers deserve to know how much their rates will go up if National scraps Three Waters but Luxon doesn't want to talk about that.

  4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4
    25 January 2023 at 8:42 am

    Pākaraka signs marking Whanganui village destroyed hours after being installed

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483055/pakaraka-signs-marking-whanganui-village-destroyed-hours-after-being-installed

    Ahuh….theres still "some" (how many?) haters out there. Sad : (

  5. observer 5
    25 January 2023 at 9:53 am

    John Key's head just exploded. "I went to your wedding and this is how you treat me!?":

    https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/status/1617975282983665664

    • Mac1 5.1
      25 January 2023 at 11:23 am

      Yesterday Mike the Lefty at #11 in the post about Jacinda Ardern's 5 years being remembered said that John Key left the PMship because his flag referendum was negative. Might it have offended the Royals having their symbols removed in a move towards a republic?

  6. Sabine 6
    25 January 2023 at 9:57 am

    Her Penis ….will be send to a prison full of vaginas.

    Holy Inclusivity!

    https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1617945134687211520/photo/1

    • weka 6.1
      25 January 2023 at 10:00 am

      was just about to post this, from the 'it will never happen' files (again)

      https://twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1617945134687211520

      • Sabine 6.1.1
        25 January 2023 at 10:11 am

        I will never figure out how to get the image to show. I am pathetic when it comes to that sort of stuff! Thanks.

      • weka 6.1.2
        25 January 2023 at 10:13 am

        this needs pointing out. There are at least five problems here

        1. A rapist (i.e. a man) decides to use self ID to get send to women's prison instead of men's prison. Whether that's because he will be safer in a women's prison, or because it gives him access to women to rape, or both, we don't know.

        2. Self ID is being used as intended. Any man can say they are a woman at any time, and society will be expected to then treat him as a woman. Including institutions.

        3. The Mail headline is a hot nonsensical mess and a gross insult to the women who were raped and women generally.

        4. None of that serves transsexual women, men with extreme gender dysphoria, or gender non-conforming males. It probably does serve AGP males, and sexual offenders.

        5. Gender ideology activists will argue that either he's not really trans and thus this is nothing to do with their politic, or he is trans and should be referred to as she and allowed to be in a women's prison. Wish they'd make up their minds.

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11670803/Transgender-woman-guilty-raping-two-women-man.html

        • Sabine 6.1.2.1
          25 January 2023 at 10:26 am
          1. both
          1. agree
          2. the mail does as they are told to by their DEI advisor lest they get a shitshow for 'misgendering'
          3. all of that actually actively hurts these people as it hurts women
          4. Gender kultis will say what they need to say to keep this gravy train going.

          The backlash to this will be extreme conservatism. The Handmaids tale only talks about the effects after the 'revolution' it does little to address what came before. I think it might have been unfettered liberalism coupled with extreme capitalism that now views the human body as the only profit center left and want to appropriately exploit that resource. We have fully gone down the rabbit hole. Good intentions badly applied lead to misery everywhere.

        • Molly 6.1.2.2
          25 January 2023 at 12:11 pm

          Don't know if this is accurate or not (only the vulnerability of the male is assessed before transfer), but if it is, the situation regarding the female prison estate in Scotland is worse than reported:

          (Have time started at the relevant point)

          https://youtu.be/CWlBaPXteuI?t=3400

          • Sabine 6.1.2.2.1
            25 January 2023 at 12:15 pm

            Same as for Canada and the US.

            In a radio interview with Kellie Jay Keen the interviewer told her about rape in prison by males – he mentioned two inmates and a warden.

            Holy Inclusivity, here are your human offerings to keep you peaceful.

  7. PsyclingLeft.Always 7
    25 January 2023 at 10:21 am

    Auckland mayor Wayne Brown gave two direct interviews to journalists in his first month in office, of the 108 requests made by media.

    Wayne Brown was not good in front of a microphone, but he was good in the boardroom, RNZ has been told.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483064/auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-grants-two-interviews-of-108-media-requests

    Yea…

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130780078/why-auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-was-in-hot-water-for-airport-comments

    His minders….dont want him making any more "gaffes"

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/130046317/auckland-mayoralty-browns-offcamera-jibe-deemed-undignified-by-rival

    • Peter 7.1
      25 January 2023 at 11:09 am

      Any idea which day will be the weekly morning interview with Mike Hosking?

    • Sanctuary 7.2
      25 January 2023 at 12:26 pm

      Wayne Brown is clearly out of his depth, so is kept on a tight leash by Matthew Hooten. He doesn't need to talk to non-Auckland based media, and fortunately he currently has an uncritical platform at the Herald to give his views unfiltered by any sort of pesky questioning. The other way he gets his views out is via "sources" giving press breiefings to the likes of Bernard Orsma, who is nothing but delighted that his sources have been upgraded from a few right wing councillors leaking documents to the mayors PR handlers giving him stuff.

      The comments section of the linked article above indicates the Herald is basically the house journal of the sort of pricks who voted for him so as long as he dogwhistles them and they continue to block vote for him, democratic accountability can get fucked.

      The tragedy is you can see that the CCO's have already decided that at 76 years old and not in the best of health they can afford to stonewall him for three years and see who comes along next, and the council itself is on a knife edge as to whether or not his agenda of cutting any service not used by well off boomers will succeed.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.2.1
        25 January 2023 at 4:40 pm

        Simon Wilson…(He of nearly Urinal "fame")

        Wilson said Brown had two modes of talking to people, one being an off-the-record chat and the other, that he was good at telling people what to do.

        Talking to the media did not fit into either of those, he said.

        Wilson said Brown simply was "not good at talking to media" and believed a decision had been made that doing so risked him "looking less than he would like to".

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/483064/auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-grants-two-interviews-of-108-media-requests

        And yea you are right…those who voted for him..could care less what he says or does. As long as he's in the tent….

  8. Corey Humm 8
    25 January 2023 at 11:52 am

    Sooo anyone in IT working for a govt department get the memo today about offshoring IT jobs.

    Despicable.

    We spent billions on bureaucratic reforms to the health system, and not one new operation, not one new nurse or doctor will be provided, all it did was empower a shit load of overpaid middle management bureaucrats.

    And now nz's health systems IT workers all have to prove that we are worth our meager pay or our jobs will be offshored so they can pay foreigners peanuts to access our health infrastructure critical information.

    Thanks Jacinda. Thanks Chippie.

    Bugger this country.

    We had to work throughout COVID lockdowns, we had to work even if we were sick and now this country takes our jobs overseas.

    Team of five million what a joke.

    I'm so angry for my friends. This govt and this country stabbed us all in the back.

    I feel bad for people who can't skip country but every young nurse, doctor and it worker should gtfo of dodge.

    They like to throw around $$$ for foreign consultants so why not save a few billion and pay someone from india 25cents an hour to manage a national service desk

    They’re quite obviously trying to copy the failed NHS mod that took 10 years to complete and they’re STILL having problems!

    NZ can get f***ed

    • Sabine 8.1
      25 January 2023 at 12:30 pm

      Thanks Andrew Little the great Union Man.

      In the meantime in the UK the NHS is being set up to be sold – one brick at a time.

      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/01/22/jsic-j22.html

      <blockquote>
      ir Keir Starmer has publicly committed the Labour Party to the further privatisation of the National Health Service (NHS).

      Writing in the <em>Sunday Telegraph</em>, the house organ of the ruling Conservative Party, Starmer declared in an op-ep that nothing was &ldquo;off limits&rdquo; when it came to the NHS. It should not be &ldquo;treated as a shrine&rdquo;, he said, repeating the formula employed earlier by his Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting.
      </blockquote>

    • Sanctuary 8.2
      25 January 2023 at 1:02 pm

      Oh no! A restructure! How can life BE so CRUEL??? Who knew your employer might kick you in the teeth?????

      HOW DID WE LET THIS HAPPEN????

      Will no one think of the children?

      You know where the airport is. Less whiney talkie talkie and more walkie walkie!

      I am sure foreign employers will be far more considerate of your views when making decisions.

      • Cricklewood 8.2.1
        25 January 2023 at 1:11 pm

        Lol a big restructure so a bunch of jobs can be sent offshore… sounds like something Act would do… maybe Labour's just getting in first…

        For the record if true its pretty shit.

        • Shanreagh 8.2.1.1
          25 January 2023 at 2:05 pm

          Ill thought-out restructurings are always 'pretty shit'.

          In my working life I went through at least 8 though some masqueraded as some thing less by being called realignments (that made us feel soooo much better). Others that I started my working life with had been through 11 when I rejoined them in 2000.

          I can say honestly that not a single one was well thought out and, dare I say, necessary.

          Ironic really as when the first restructuring started back around 1985/86/87 (Envrionmental restructuring) started I had just finished doing management papers through Massey. One of these was fiercely saying that people who found themselves having to do abrupt shifts and changes in direction were poor managers as they had not been keeping their eyes one the ball. It was desirable & respectful of staff & markets to move in an incremental and slow-ish way respecting the value of staff knowledge and staff themselves. .

          Funny that Stan Rogers, Richard Prebble, Roger Douglas and the eminence gris behind them from Treasury, Graeme Scott, did not seem to have read this stuff and treated the PS with absolute disdain.

          Later I met one of my former restructured out staff members (with me in her first job out of Uni) in London where she was working in a Govt dept and she said her managers were agog (in a negative way) at the stuff that was happening in NZ and one said they were going to wait until the dust settled before seeing if they could learn anything but at first glance he felt an more incremental approach was usually better. (obviously having read the same types of management studies that I had!)

          An incremental approach does not work for those wanting huge change, as part of an ill thought-out (ACT) or invisible (Nats) manifesto and who neither respect the PS nor the people who work there.

          NZ decimated it's PS in the neo lib era (error) and though we have had some good years in the PS since there is a high degree of inherent suspicion of places like SSC/Treasury and their OTT influence on things, and a feeling that we may be slightly more politicised than is necessary. The importation of CEs from overseas increased the turmoil/churn with the restructurings.

          Also to remember that it was Labour who started this neo lib madness and we should always be keeping an eye on them too.

          Corey I am feeling for your friends in PS IT. I am feeling also for my young cousin who is part of a cohort of techies who were employed in the PS to provide a future/positive place to work across several departments. Hopefully he is not affected. It is so demoralising seeing those in their first jobs being swung around and spat out as part of terrible restructurings.

          Think about the waste of lives and the slow down in departments as new entities tried to do what the old ones had been doing…what a complete and utter shambles this time was.

          • Tony Veitch 8.2.1.1.1
            25 January 2023 at 4:46 pm

            I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and what a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization

            Gaius Petronius Arbiter c. AD 60.

            (Though some question his authorship.)

            • Shanreagh 8.2.1.1.1.1
              25 January 2023 at 7:43 pm

              Got it in one! In fact that came though to a secluded fax during one of the restructurings, mass-sent all around NZ to trusted faxes.

              I used to keep a collection of these but I think I threw them out as it got beyond a joke.

          • Belladonna 8.2.1.1.2
            25 January 2023 at 10:03 pm

            Having been through several local government restructures myself – this really resonated.

            "An incremental approach does not work for those wanting huge change,"

            It seemed that the majority of the managers on the restructure treadmill wanted to 'stamp their mark' on the organization – and it was change for changes sake, rather than actual improvements.

            The general trend was to remove decision-making and responsibility (and therefore salary/pay) from the front-line site managers – to back-room people – nicely insulated from the consequences of their decisions.

            The fact that you then have considerable 'churn' in those less-attractive front-line jobs (all of the stress, little responsibility, pay or job growth prospects) – all incurring ongoing hiring and training costs – never seems to get considered in the bottom line….

            • tWiggle 8.2.1.1.2.1
              26 January 2023 at 7:53 pm

              Waka Kotahi being doing this very same front-line to back-room shuffle under an Aussie CEO. Shame on Labour's government for weakening the Public Service.

              [Please use the correct e-mail address in your next comment, thanks – Incognito]

      • Shanreagh 8.2.2
        25 January 2023 at 2:17 pm

        Obviously Sanctuary has not been subject to an ill thought out and possibly unnecessary restructuring…..if so are you qualified to give any sort of opinion let alone a sneering dismissive one.

        Or is this some heavy irony I am not getting?

        • Sanctuary 8.2.2.1
          25 January 2023 at 2:28 pm

          Oh, I've been restructured many times – it was practically a sport after the dotcom boom fell apart. First they come for the least productive, then they amputate whole departments and finally they fire the HR staff who made it possible to sack everyone in the first place.

          The thing is a restructure/outsourcing isn't (usually) personal and they are always bad for the business, particularly harsh ones when everyone's morale falls off a cliff. They are shitty as, but you develop a bit of resilience and you realise you don't hang around waiting for the redundancy cheque if you've had a gutsful. Don't moan, just spend company time looking for a new job and leave. And if your leaving means they are in the shit because they planned on keeping you, tough luck.

          • weka 8.2.2.1.1
            25 January 2023 at 5:17 pm

            this is a political blog. I think pointing to the politics of this situation is warranted beyond 'stop moaning and get another job'.

          • Shanreagh 8.2.2.1.2
            25 January 2023 at 8:34 pm

            They are shitty as, but you develop a bit of resilience and you realise you don't hang around waiting for the redundancy cheque if you've had a gutsful. Don't moan, just spend company time looking for a new job and leave.

            And there is another myth, that you develop resilience. In the charts about life stressors losing one's job is in one of the 10 most stressful eg in the Holmes and Rahe scale.

            1. Death of a spouse (or child*):
            2. Divorce:
            3. Marital separation:
            4. Imprisonment:
            5. Death of a close family member:
            6. Personal injury or illness:
            7. Marriage:
            8. Dismissal from work:
            9. Marital reconciliation
            10. Retirement:

            So imagine it happens once, at the same time as a marital break-up. Bad, so two years later it happens again and your dad dies, then again and again. I used to say to these outside consultant companies

            'Please write your procedures so that there is recognition that losing one's job may not be the only sad or stressful thing happening to our staff'…..all to no avail.

            This only plan only works if there are jobs 'outside' that are similar. Some PS jobs involve incredibly specialist work, that is hard to match in the private sector let alone even in the wider PS. I have been involved in some of the point matching jobs with others within yr dept and outside yr dept.

            Some times the points matching comes down to a similarity only on generic attributes. Sometimes the resilience is to something akin to weekly beatings, or an inhumane living or home life, like the boiled frog syndrome. These are not necessarily good adaptations.

            The damage to people, on going and the waste of potential is incredible. The NZ Govt must have spent/wasted $NZ billions on this.

            One of my dad's wartime mates developed shell shock or PTSD 30 years after his war service ended. My dad was told that this was not unusual. I wonder if as retirement comes along for many of these folk involved in these restructurings if there will be a blip in the numbers seeking help for unresolved injuries to self now that the mind is free.

            I know that many of us had much less to retire on than we were anticipating after raiding super and other savings after our redundancy monies were all gone. We were not eligible for any benefits, most of us, as we had 'earned too much', and spent it keeping family, hearth & home together.

            I took early retirement once I became aware that I was not going to get a job in the last restructuring, too old (55) and had too much 'corporate baggage" I was told. You know the stuff they called 'goodwill' like having skilled, stable staff with a knowledge of the business where people pay money to secure it was labelled 'baggage' in this restructuring.

            There is no good restructuring, it is a myth. The only 'restructuring' that is good is the ones we initiate ourselves as Jacinda Ardern did, and as happened in our workplaces, often after a long holiday.

            With good training, good performance management/pay and good management much of the knee jerk obliteration of workplaces can be avoided.

            If NAct gets it they are likely to use any cruel and unnecessarily damaging restructuring methods, wholesale, and 40 or so years after the last cut swathes through the PS we will have it again for our people.

            It is ghastly to see it happening now under Labour.

            I had some wonderful jobs after being restructured out, none in the skills I had been specifically trained in though. But it was wonderful to come back to the rump of the Dept I had been restructured out of all those years ago for 5 years before I took (forced) early retirement during a restructuring on account of my decrepitude

            On another note related to misogyny/sexism/racism when I did come back all the corporate knowledge & goodwill about these 'isms' had been lost in the mists of time. We had CEs who had no working knowledge of concepts such as equal pay for equal work let alone evolving concepts such as equal pay for work of equal value (the police versus nurses pay), the glass ceiling, etc

    • gsays 8.3
      25 January 2023 at 2:24 pm

      "And now nz's health systems IT workers all have to prove that we are worth our meager pay or our jobs will be offshored so they can pay foreigners peanuts to access our health infrastructure critical information.

      Thanks Jacinda. Thanks Chippie."

      Neo-liberals gotta neo-liberal.

    • satty 8.4
      25 January 2023 at 3:13 pm

      Sooo anyone in IT working for a govt department get the memo today about offshoring IT jobs.

      …

      And now nz's health systems IT workers all have to prove that we are worth our meager pay or our jobs will be offshored

      I know people working in government IT (not Ministry of Health though) or are fully aware of all major IT projects in Wellington, so this is news to me.

      Do you have some more information and/or a link to a news report?

    • SPC 8.5
      25 January 2023 at 6:22 pm

      Angry, mean and spite are words too.

  9. roy cartland 9
    25 January 2023 at 2:24 pm

    I just listened to Neale Jones on the Kathryn Ryan RNZ show, saying 1 out of every 11 houses in NZ was built by the Ardern Govt. The biggest housebuilding scheme in NZ history. Is this right? Why the hell didn't I know that? Why doesn't everyone know that?

    • satty 9.1
      25 January 2023 at 2:55 pm

      All houses / dwellings or state houses?

      I don't think we're talking all dwellings in NZ, which is over 2 million. And NZ builds around 25,000 to 30,000 houses a year.

      For state housing: Kainga Ora manages 69,000 homes and around 1,500 are build a year.

    • Jimmy 9.2
      25 January 2023 at 4:18 pm

      I find that hard to believe

  10. Adrian 10
    25 January 2023 at 3:19 pm

    Isn’t that bloody Labour through and through, building too many houses so the market falls by 20%! Bastards!

    • Sabine 10.1
      25 January 2023 at 4:18 pm

      Just sad that no one can afford the loans at the high interest rates. So Yei, more houses, but sad high interest loans, inflation, high cost of living and a fair chance of high unemployment in the future. Never mind that what ever the number is, it is woefully inadequate.

      State Houses new builds barely keep up with the amount sold.

      Daily Blog is providing a nice run down here. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/11/14/hundreds-of-millions-in-state-house-land-sold-by-labour-in-the-middle-of-a-housing-catastrophe-for-people-on-low-and-middle-incomes/

      As per the government from last year, they are happy to have overseen the build of 10.000 'permanent' public housing which comes to about 1800 per year, and is woefully inadequate to keep up demand.

      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/10000-more-permanent-public-homes-added-under-labour-government

      we also bought houses and i would guess that they are in the 'more permanent public homes' https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-spends-1b-buying-state-homes-in-five-years/2AOGBWVRXTBFA4KP6VYX45Z65Q/

      we also sold or demolished at least 2000 by April 2021 so feel free to guess how many we have sold or demolished by now.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/government-has-sold-or-demolished-nearly-2000-state-houses-since-july-2018.html

      The whole housing mess has just gotten progressively worse, and to be honest i think it is going to get 'worser'.

      • SPC 10.1.1
        25 January 2023 at 6:18 pm

        There were 67,000 state houses in 2017, and now there are in 69,000 in 2022 (it was 68,000 in 2021).

        They are also renovating old stock, so that they meet rental standards *.

        Houses demolished are often on land for future state house building ** or for KiwiBuild *** or the sale for money (for * and ** and ***). That said they are also increasing capital invested in Kainga Ora.

        • Mac1 10.1.1.1
          26 January 2023 at 1:09 pm

          My area with 1% of NZ's population will have 40 Kainga Ora houses go and 57 built. There are also initiatives being supported for house building by NGOs such as the Sustainable Housing Trust, and three local churches are building houses. Iwi also have some 4 ha of repatriated land that had been earlier donated by local iwi for hospital building being developed for housing. Abbeyfield is interested to build locally.

          Rental houses locally are snapped up with but 16 houses available recently. Emergency housing continues to be built. Our area has a waiting list of 234 on the Housing Register, which contains applicants not currently in public housing who have been assessed as eligible and who are ready to be matched to a suitable property.

          State houses go for all sorts of reasons- dilapidation, depopulation,- the big thing is that they are replaced with dry, warm houses in greater number and more suited for the aize of families who will live there.

          There is still need but all is not gloom.

          Dealing with our local Nat MP pre-2017 taught us that more state houses were being sold than built, even though the official line was that they would be replaced……

    • SPC 11.1
      25 January 2023 at 6:12 pm

      Hilarious … move onto a National government that sees holding down wages as the way to deal with inflation and wants to increase inequality by returning to mortgage interest deductability for multiple property owners.

  12. RP Mcmurphy 12
    25 January 2023 at 8:36 pm

    who is jenna lynch?

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