Open mike 26/01/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 26th, 2024 - 116 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

116 comments on “Open mike 26/01/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Jenny 1
    26 January 2024 at 6:54 am

    Who will be this guy?

    https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/resistance-responses-collaboration/non-conformity/refusal-to-salute/

    As hundreds of Palestinian civilians are being killed by Israel every day, and the survivors are being herded into smaller and smaller pockets, Germany Intervenes to support Israel's actions at the World Court.

    https://www.dw.com/en/what-does-it-mean-if-a-third-party-intervenes-at-the-international-court-of-justice/a-68024168

    Will Germany's Judge Nolte be the new August Landmesser?

    There is strong evidence that judges sitting in the World Court favor the states that appoint them.

    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/430765#:~:text=The%20International%20Court%20of%20Justice%20(ICJ)%20has%20jurisdiction%20over%20disputes,the%20states%20that%20appoint%20them.

    Will Judge Nolte defy his country's support for Israel?

    The 17 judges of the World Court are due to release their decision on, whether or not the World Court will grant South Africa's application for an interim order for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza.

    South Africa sought their application for an interim order for a ceasefire from the world court, on the grounds that Israel is conducting war crimes in Gaza that amount to genocide. The crime of genocide is decided both by evidence of "intent" and by the evidence of acts that "destroy in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group."

    The burden of proof for the World Court to issue an interim order for a ceasefire is much lesser than that for a full hearing of the court. All that needs to be proved for an interim order, is that there is a "possibility" that Israel's actions in Gaza amount to genocide.

    The United Nations International Court of Justice, AKA The World Court, is the highest legal body in the United Nations system.. The judgements handed down by the World Court are always partly political partly judicial

    For example the US Judge will vote against a ceasefire, the judge for South Africa will vote for a ceasefire, the judge for Israel will vote against a ceasefire, etc,

    Some time in the future, this World Court hearing and the deliberations of its judges made in chambers, will be dramatised. This dramatisation may even be streamed on Netflix.

    Like the recent Netflix dramatisation based on the transcripts of the Tokyo War Crimes Trial, the manipulation and pressure on the judges by the US will be laid bare. The published dissenting opinions of the judges made in chambers against US pressure and manipulation of the court will also be laid bare.

    https://www.netflix.com/nz/title/80091880

    Who will be the main protagonist of this new Netflix dramatisation?

    Germany's Georg Nolte will be the one to watch.

    Germany have filed a intervention with the World Court in support of Israel. The sole country to do so. Germany's intervention will not be heard in this preliminary hearing, for an interim order, and will only be heard at the full hearing, which everyone admits could be months or even years away.
    I suspect that the reason the German government have lodged an intervention with the court in support of Israel is to send a message to Georg Nolte.

    The message being delivered to Judge Nolte by the German state, is this – If you vote for South Africa's application for an interim order for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, you will be up against the full weight of the German state.

    Based on how their countries have voted on the issue of a ceasefire in the UN General Assembly, the vote by the judges of the World Court for an interim ceasefire order will be very close, Just one judge going against the expected outcome will make a difference. Israel and the US have made it clear what the expected outcome of the World Court will be.

    All politics is pressure.

    Because of US political pressure on its allied governments, I expect that the judges in the World Court appointed by those governments, will not vote to issue an order for a ceasefire in Gaza and the best South Africa could expect from the judges of the World Court is a watered down interim order for Israel to allow in more humanitarian aid.

    Georg Nolt's vote in chambers could change this dynamic.

    Why would Judge Nolte be motivated to go against his country?

    Judge Georg Nolte is a Holocaust scholar an a stickler for the letter of law in international affairs and has edited several published works on international law relating to genocide. Judge Nolte is well aware of the historical parallels of voting with the other US allied judges against South Africa's ceasefire application.

    Will Judge Nolte be Germany's new August Landmesser?

    Georg Nolte hero, or villain?

    History will decide.

    • Subliminal 1.1
      26 January 2024 at 8:48 am

      "An absolute tsunami of aid trucks refused entry into Gaza". Starvation of 2 million Palestinians as a weapon of war.

      Also, bombing of hospitals now not even claiming the presence of Hamas. Ethnic cleansing at its most brutal

    • Ad 1.2
      26 January 2024 at 1:14 pm

      This all presumes that there will be some calm "day after".

      That's conceit, though well intentioned.

      There will be no logical transition from active conflict to some calm post-conflict reality, one where we see some clear shift in the politics, economy, and security environment for Gaza.

      This is already looking a lot worse than the UN-security team buffer zones on the Egyptian border or even the Golan Heights.
      No nation in their right mind would send their people to secure Gazans from Israel or Israelis from Hamas – even if both sides permitted it.

      This one is really different. There's no quick withdrawal of Israel and no commitment by Hamas to stop either. It's many years away.

      The only players still trying for a settlement are the UAE and the US. Every plan is being rejected both by Hamas and Israel.

      Gaza looks now like a highly compressed form of Kabul: recently taken over fully and anyone looking for freedom is instead consigned to increased disintegration and despair.

    • Jenny 1.3
      26 January 2024 at 5:29 pm

      '

      Crunch time:

      Friday 26 January, 2024, 1 p.m. Central European Standard Time.

      ….the International Court of Justice will deliver its Order on the Request for the indication of provisional measures submitted by South Africa in the case concerning Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel). A public sitting will take place at 1 p.m. at the Peace Palace in The Hague, during which Judge Joan E. Donoghue, the President of the Court, will read the Court’s Order…..

      https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240124-pre-01-00-en.pdf

      The reading of the Court's order can be followed live in New Zealand at 1 a.m.
      Saturday 27 January, 2024, on the Court’s website and on UN Web TV.

      https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1u/k1uwq4cxuv

  2. KJT 2
    26 January 2024 at 7:10 am

    The cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy and inconsistency of ACT. The party of "property rights" ( and inherited privilege for white, wealthy people) opposing the "property rights" of Mãori.

  3. tsmithfield 3
    26 January 2024 at 8:51 am

    Here is an excellent video by Sabien Hossenfeilder explaining the key science that proves that modern climate change is caused by humans. An excellent video to give to skeptics or climate change deniers you may know.

    She also provides an excellent video debunking the somewhat outlandish claim that I often hear that runaway global warming will turn earth into Venus. She goes into the science of how Venus became what it is, and why that is unlikely to happen on earth.

    I think the real, provable issues are serious enough, and that outlandish claims that are easily disproven simply gives ammunition to the denialists. So, I think it is important to focus on the actual problems rather than hysterical claims that I think are actually counterproductive.

  4. Sanctuary 4
    26 January 2024 at 9:46 am

    Jesus Christ, how corrupt do you have to be in NZ politics before the media call you out as corrupt?

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350158370/tobacco-lobbyist-guest-ministers-swearing-ceremony

    NZ First are a bunch of filthy, corrupt grifters. The whole party is owned by tobacco money yet our MSM is to cozy with their place in the swamp to be bothered calling it out.

    The recent review of our electoral laws was pretty damn long on making it easier for political parties – given half a chance and they'll happily have four year terms, lowered thresholds, and utterly opaque funding rules forever – but anti-corruption laws? Nah.

  5. Reality 5
    26 January 2024 at 9:58 am

    Kiri Allan in today's Herald gives an extraordinary and insightful interview on her time in politics and summation of how it all fell apart. Well worth reading and it's not a "premium" item.

    • David 5.1
      26 January 2024 at 12:15 pm

      Yes it’s a brilliant PR piece, perfectly timed for her upcoming book release.

      • Robert Guyton 5.1.1
        26 January 2024 at 1:23 pm

        Zero compassion, right there.

      • Anne 5.1.2
        26 January 2024 at 5:53 pm

        David @ 5.1
        You piece of common shit!

        • David 5.1.2.1
          26 January 2024 at 7:08 pm

          Have you ever lost a relative or close friend to a drunk driver, Anne?

          • Anne 5.1.2.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 7:10 pm

            Pffft!

          • weka 5.1.2.1.2
            26 January 2024 at 7:17 pm

            Have you ever lost a relative or close friend to suicide, David?

            • David 5.1.2.1.2.1
              26 January 2024 at 7:18 pm

              Yes. On both counts.

              • weka …
                26 January 2024 at 7:20 pm

                so we're back to zero compassion.

                and fwiw, I think Anne just showed zero compassion as well.

                • David …
                  26 January 2024 at 7:31 pm

                  You're right, Weka, I can't show compassion for Kiri. I know I should be able to (genuinely), but not after reading Claire Trevett's piece.

                • Incognito …
                  26 January 2024 at 8:39 pm

                  and fwiw, I think Anne just showed zero compassion as well.

                  The difference is that Kiri Allan is a public figure and we know a fair bit about her and the context around the incident. OTOH, David is an anonymous commenter on TS since 29 November last year who might even be using a pseudonym and we know next to nothing about him, or at least not until he chose to share some background info @ 7:41 pm.

                  David’s first comment in this thread @ 5.1 (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26-01-2024/#comment-1986817) was insensitive enough to provoke a (negative) response.

                  He claims he “can’t” show compassion because of a piece written by someone else, which to me suggests a possible underlying bias towards Kiri Allan.

                  • weka …
                    26 January 2024 at 9:13 pm

                    the comparison was between David and Anne 😉

                    Anne was dismissive about how someone might feel about having someone close to them kill themselves. That's compassionless.

                    If we can't have compassion for our political enemies, why should anyone including David?

                    And if the issue is that David is a troll, or astroturfer or just a RWNJ, then isn't it better to err on the side of caution? Otherwise why would RWNJs not display the same behaviour towards us?

                    On and on it goes.

                • Anne …
                  26 January 2024 at 10:55 pm

                  My response weka @ 7:20pm had nothing to do with 'lacking compassion' for someone losing a friend or relative in an accident involving a drunk driver.

                  On the basis of David's original comment @ 5.1, I saw a nasty put-down of someone who has been to hell and back. I saw it as a cop-out. He then comes up with a reply to me about drunk driving which I also saw as a cop-out. I called him out with my "Pffft".

                  He eventually relates his personal experience which he should have provided from the get-go then I would have understood where he was coming from. Still doesn't let him entirely off the hook.

                  Kiri has every right to tell her story, just as Golriz has done and Todd Muller before them. I felt compassion and admiration for all three of them. It takes guts to front up like they did.

                  • weka …
                    27 January 2024 at 8:57 am

                    sure, you have compassion for some people and not others.

                    His reply wasn't 'about drunk driving'. It was about having someone close to you who is killed by a drunk driver.

                    Have you ever lost a relative or close friend to a drunk driver, Anne?

                    Which you were very dismissive of.

                    I’m sure you had your reasons. It was still a compassionless comment in a conversation about compassion.

                    • Anne …
                      27 January 2024 at 11:06 am

                      Anne was dismissive about how someone might feel about having someone close to them kill themselves. That's compassionless.

                      That's one hell of a leap to take! Any suicidal thoughts involved were not even known to me until I saw Waghorn's comment last night. I was responding to David’s comment at 5.1 only. Check the timelines if you don't believe me.

                      As Incognito pointed out, he made his original statement with no context whatsoever. In his short life span here thus far, 'David' has made numerous smart-arse comments designed to inflame. Despite his subsequent explanation, which I don't dispute, I still suspect he took the opportunity to have a crack at Allan.

                      In future, please don't put a claim in my mouth that was never there. Thank-you.

                    • weka []
                      27 January 2024 at 11:34 am

                      Sorry, that should have read “Anne was dismissive about how someone might feel about having someone close to them be killed by a drunk driver. That’s compassionless”

                      David’s comment and your reply to that comment, from above,

                      David 5.1.2.1
                      26 January 2024 at 7:08 pm (Edit)

                      Have you ever lost a relative or close friend to a drunk driver, Anne?

                      Reply
                      Anne 5.1.2.1.1
                      26 January 2024 at 7:10 pm (Edit)

                      Pffft!

                    • Anne …
                      27 January 2024 at 7:35 pm

                      Accept you got it wrong weka. My "Pffft" was to inform him that his response @ 7.08pm had no bearing on his original remark @ 5.1 which was:

                      Yes it’s a brilliant PR piece, perfectly timed for her upcoming book release.

                      His reply introducing the subject of drunk driving was a diversionary tactic imho. You misinterpreted my response. I will not be commenting further.

                    • weka []
                      27 January 2024 at 7:41 pm

                      Unfortunately none of us are mind readers and when a commenter uses one word that is by definition dismissive, then people are going to read that in response to the comment it was made about. If you want to have more nuance in your commentary, maybe use more words.

    • ian 5.2
      26 January 2024 at 5:38 pm

      I thought it was her media colleagues buttering up their last resort readers. she should never have got the job she was incapable of. She should shut up and take the punishment.

  6. Reality 6
    26 January 2024 at 10:02 am

    This government seems hellbent on creating dramas all over the place. Haven't got off to a good start at all. Luxon's "I used to run an airline" self belief is waning rapidly,

    • Ad 6.1
      26 January 2024 at 10:22 am

      And yet their popularity is rising strong.

      Luxon got through the mini-budget and 2 separate large engagements with Maori quite unscathed.

      There is no organised opposition to them in Parliament.

      Also with inflation coming down, unemployment still good at 3.9%, no tropical disasters to respond to, and GDP forecasts improving, they have momentum going into the May Budget 2024.

      • Bearded Git 6.1.1
        26 January 2024 at 11:51 am

        Yes I heard Willis on RadioNZ saying something like "yes we have inflation coming down but we still have more work to do" as though the drop to 4.7% happened under their watch when in reality it was under Labour's

        There is always a honeymoon period for new governments….check the polls in a year’s time.

      • SPC 6.1.2
        26 January 2024 at 12:12 pm

        The RB wanted 4% by the end of 2023 – but the 1.8% increase in the 3rd quarter stopped that.

        The 4th quarter 0.5% means they have a chance of getting it to the 3% target by the end of 2024, when that 1.8% quarter is in the past.

        Their problems are higher rates (water costs) and rising rents (migrant labour and maybe student inflow pressure). And higher shipping costs.

      • adam 6.1.3
        26 January 2024 at 12:35 pm

        Inflation will be back to double figure by may, could be sooner. So I'd be careful saying how good it is now.

        https://moverdb.com/container-shipping/

        • SPC 6.1.3.1
          26 January 2024 at 12:53 pm

          Trade from the Persian Gulf to ASEAN refineries is not impacted, nor that in North Asia (or ASEAN) areas to us. Nor that from America to us. Nor across the Atlantic

          This is a specific targeting of the European West (supporting Ukraine) who switched away from Russian supply (sanctions) and their supply of energy and EV's/electronics etc from Asia.

          The current GOP block of funding to Ukraine (and subsequent risk to NATO from a Trump victory) explains belligerent talk from Mdvedev of late (Ukraine belongs to Russia and they will have what they want elsewhere in Europe).

          It's a, first Ukraine then Palestine, strategic allegiance after all (Russia-Iran).

          • adam 6.1.3.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 4:04 pm

            Debate, nope it's the SPC show.

            Bugger me.

            • SPC 6.1.3.1.1.1
              26 January 2024 at 4:15 pm

              It's not my problem that you thought that inflation would rise to double figures because of a shipping cost rise on a route that does not impact us.

              • adam …
                26 January 2024 at 4:26 pm

                OH dear, you missed the price of all containers went up?

                You get that, I was not making any other argument – you just go on a waka of your own, all the time.

                Assumptions make asses…

                • SPC …
                  26 January 2024 at 4:30 pm

                  Nevertheless, Container shipping remains by far the cheapest way to ship goods internationally, but prices vary widely between where you’re moving from and where you’re moving to.

                  The world index is an average … duh.

                  • adam …
                    26 January 2024 at 5:13 pm

                    Yeap and the average has gone up. And is still going up.

                    Too soon to point that out, too soon to point out we are not immune to rising averages.

                    You get how inflation is created right? I’m not noticing that at the moment.

                    • SPC …
                      26 January 2024 at 5:45 pm

                      Don’t play the shmuck card.

                      This page shows some of the regional variations.

                      Europe to Asia up a lot both ways

                      America to Asia variable dependent on direction, Asia to America up, not otherwise.

                      America to Europe not up either way, but down.

                      https://moverdb.com/container-shipping/#top%22

                    • adam …
                      26 January 2024 at 9:28 pm

                      Minutia is the all in option with you. So no more. If I'm right in May apologies or I'll admit I'm wrong. Happy to wait and see.

                    • SPC …
                      26 January 2024 at 10:39 pm

                      The extent of the higher cost factor will be dependent on how much of our Asian trade is on ships that are/were on the Asian-Europe route – and whether they charge separate container rates within the region or not.

                      For mine it's a possible 1%+ issue, so I don't see the risk of a rate higher than 5% (as it is at the moment).

  7. weka 7
    26 January 2024 at 11:54 am

    I want to try this concept out on Standardistas.

    The difference between pre-culture war L/R politics and L/R politics now, is that now people are more committed to their partisanship than they are to the country they live in (although they may not see the difference).

    For instance, in the 80s and 90s there was a strong L/R political culture in NZ, but it was more like we swung between the two, there was a strong fight between the two, but we all still got on.

    Whereas now, the divides aren't as binary, and some are downright unclear. Many people operate as if the divides are still binary. And there is a strong commitment (on all sides) to positions that overrides concern for the wellbeing of people, community and country.

    That last paragraph presents differently depending on the position.

    What do you all think?

    • SPC 7.1
      26 January 2024 at 12:04 pm

      The difference in the 80's/90's was that it was an economic change to a neo-liberal market order with a lot of victims (and a lot going to Oz, thus their 2001 response) – unemployment and then declining health (convergence for older workers and the super increase age 60 to 65 1990-2000).

      The end of our egalitarianism(1/4 acre homeownership stock standard) is subject for lament.

      Now it is more cultural and otherwise a sense of global middle class (educated, job and travel mobile) and local underclass.

      The American input is faith based provider term limit welfare reform, high levels of imprisonment/parole/probation management/community policing, prosperity religion gospel where God is on the side of the middle class (and wealthier elites) and end time rapture where God is to come judge the liberals and send them all to hell – culture war fuel.

      Then there is the anti-globalism of the American nativism – a reboot of their isolationism being spread on social media (sovereignty movement, anti UN etc).

      • weka 7.1.1
        26 January 2024 at 12:21 pm

        I was thinking about the US, particularly how the rise of Trump has empowered a politics before country culture.

        It's hard to tell with the US though. Maybe it was always like that and Trump just allowed it to be more obvious.

        Likewise with your second to last paragraph.

        • Cricklewood 7.1.1.1
          26 January 2024 at 8:19 pm

          Trump managed to successfully engage a massive cohort of people who regular politics had left behind. In a NZ context its like he managed to energize the whole of West and South Auckland to vote for him. Boris sorta did the same, theres a lesson for the left in there somewhere….

    • Robert Guyton 7.2
      26 January 2024 at 12:04 pm

      Against a background of great global and psychological unsteadiness, people feel they need to choose a corner the defend it like crazy – or they'll go crazy.

      Logic, accomodation of new ideas, kindness toward the other corners, doesn't get a look in now.

      Imo.

      • weka 7.2.1
        26 January 2024 at 12:13 pm

        that's how I see it too. Conservatism is a natural response to stress and perceived danger.

        I think there are other things going on too. The degree of disconnect from shared reality and objective reality among some of the new political movements. Social media and the huge degree of intentional emotional/psychological manipulation being done. Both of those undermine attempts to resolve issues via as you say logic, new ideas, kindness.

        I also think the climate and biodiversity crises are of such a scale that the human mind and heart aren't well equipped to understand and respond them.

        • Robert Guyton 7.2.1.1
          26 January 2024 at 12:22 pm

          You are correct, weka, imo.

          Sadly, others recognise this and seek to exploit 🙂

          I do think though, that the human mind is equiped to understand and respond.

          Yours is.

          • weka 7.2.1.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 7:16 pm

            true, but I had and have to work at it. The urge to respond well is built into me, but the skills in how to cope with the scale of the crisis, those I had to develop.

        • ian 7.2.1.2
          26 January 2024 at 5:46 pm

          I am a carrier of stress and don't show any symptoms. I am also a conservative who can see light at the end of a very dark tunnel.. Ardern killed kindness by preaching it and doing the opposite. As a farmer I am welcoming climate change as it is a positive. the bank also recognises that climate change will be beneficial to our business and dropped 20 basic points of the mortgage. You guys need to get all that shit out of your heads and rejoin the modern world.

          • Cricklewood 7.2.1.2.1
            26 January 2024 at 8:22 pm

            Yep in NZ its an opportunity to do new things, have run across a few mango trees doing well and fruiting outside in Auckland, Sugarcane on the marginal land in the North, Bannanas, Pineapples on a commercial scale we are actually well placed.

          • Muttonbird 7.2.1.2.2
            26 January 2024 at 8:34 pm

            I just dropped 20 basic points trying to work out what the fuck you are on about. Explain yourself.

            • alwyn 7.2.1.2.2.1
              26 January 2024 at 8:47 pm

              I'm sure that all will be clear if you read it as 20 basis points and not 20 basic points. I'm sure that that was just a typo by Ian and he meant basis.

              • Muttonbird …
                26 January 2024 at 8:48 pm

                Gee, thanks for that mate. Not the bit I didn’t understand…

                • alwyn …
                  28 January 2024 at 6:28 pm

                  It seemed very simple to follow to me.

                  Still, I often find it very hard to understand some of the wild conjectures made by some contributors to this blog so who am I to comment.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    28 January 2024 at 6:44 pm

                    The evil hag Ardern killed kindness and waged war on we rich white farmers who are now quite happy because we might have some mangoes, but sad because of our repressed rage that a woman built a very dark tunnel which I got stuck in. The bank gave us some basic points which we will use to grow more mangoes and stop female harridans from stepping out of the kitchen and building more tunnels.

                    Listen to yourselves, idiots.

                    • alwyn …
                      28 January 2024 at 7:42 pm

                      My, my.

                      You certainly do have some exceedingly dark thoughts about our former PM. Relax, she is no longer in the job and persisting in such ideas can't possibly be good for you.

      • SPC 7.2.2
        26 January 2024 at 12:19 pm

        Quite apart from the * or ** or *** divides of focus on media, for many there is a higher level of pressure in their daily lives (affording rent/mortgage – education standards/access to a functioning health system).

        • weka 7.2.2.1
          26 January 2024 at 12:24 pm

          that's both not new, in the sense we've had those times before, and new, in the sense that now we have the accumulation of nearly 50 years of neoliberalism and it's compounded.

          I don't know if it's just me, but I find myself having to actively reframe my mind to stop believing that things are going to go back to normal. I don't think they are going to, but my brain is habituated to thinking they will (godzone)

    • gsays 7.3
      26 January 2024 at 12:22 pm

      A few thoughts.

      Other divides that seem to be wider than 20 yrs ago- Rural/Urban and Haves/ Have-nots.

      I think part of the polarisation is social media. In two ways. Someone else's pithy paragraph sums up them (othering) rendering everything black and white, no grey.

      Also, and more importantly, time spent at the screen is time spent reinforcing, polishing and hardening the idea of the individual. Time not spent in others company- church, sports or cultural or interest groups, service or volunteer time. All of which bring you into meaningful contact with folk dissimilar to you.

      The demise or splintering of the left was way more pronounced by the state's reaction to Covid than it was for the right.

      • Robert Guyton 7.3.1
        26 January 2024 at 12:25 pm

        Because the "left" is where the action is, gsays. It's not surprising that multiplication of thought occurred there; the Right abhors such divisioning (made-up word).

        In any case, it wasn't the "State's" reaction to Covid – it was the Left's 🙂
        Plus, I challenge your claim that the Rural had divided more from the Urban. This is not true.
        Your penultimate paragraph though, I agree with, although it needs parsing 🙂

        • gsays 7.3.1.1
          26 January 2024 at 12:47 pm

          In regards to rural urban, what I am getting at is the disconnect with so many folk as to where their food comes from.

          In the mid '80s I feel in love with a horticulturalists daughter. He would send his produce off to the auctions and would get a fair price for it.

          Over the next few years, the rise and rise of the supermarkets meant that they would tell him when his season would start, finish and how much produce he would deliver and at what cost.

          This has two effects, city folk get most of their food whims met (regardless of season or country of origin) and plenty of primary producers forced into the arms if the foreign owned banks. Therefore dancing to the banksters tune rather than their local community.

          • Robert Guyton 7.3.1.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 1:06 pm

            I'm fully on-board with your "supermarket-kills-growers" vibe, gsays. It is true.

            I love that you "feel in love" with a horticulturalists daughter (there's a film in there 🙂 The return for growers from those supermarkets is a crime against humanity.

            • gsays 7.3.1.1.1.1
              26 January 2024 at 6:36 pm

              Hah, feel worked then, still does as a matter of fact.

              Typing on a small screen during lunch break and fading eyesight.

            • Cricklewood 7.3.1.1.1.2
              26 January 2024 at 8:26 pm

              Yeah, only need to do the math on a $2 Broccoli head at countdown in season to figure that the people that actually do the hard bit are getting shafted.

      • SPC 7.3.2
        26 January 2024 at 12:26 pm

        Time not spent in others company

        This began before social media, with the change in employment laws and requirement to be able to work shifts and two incomes to afford rent and mortgage. This ended the concept of a common time for gathering. Basic things like not being able to be available for evening training or weekend games played their part in the beginning.

        • Robert Guyton 7.3.2.1
          26 January 2024 at 12:37 pm

          For me, "others" means, "other-than-humans".

          If we don't spend time with birds, trees, fish, flies, we become disconnected and start to spin out.

          We are presently spinning out, as a species, imo.

          • SPC 7.3.2.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 12:41 pm

            That will be an impact on older folks who don't get out as much or as far as they did.

          • Macro 7.3.2.1.2
            27 January 2024 at 9:48 am

            If we don't spend time with birds, trees, fish, flies, we become disconnected and start to spin out.

            We are presently spinning out, as a species, imo.

            Totally agree Robert. I gave a reflection on this very subject last year – too long to post here.

            A summary:

            If we look at the history of the theology of creation perhaps the the fault lies with the Masoretes.

            The Masoretes were groups of Jewish scribe scholars who worked from around the end of the 5th through 10th centuries. Each group compiled a system of pronunciation and grammatical guides on the external form of the biblical text in an attempt to standardize the pronunciation, paragraph and verse divisions, of the Hebrew Bible for the worldwide Jewish community. Had they put a tsere (two dots) under the Resh they would have the root word yarad which means to come down or lower oneself. The original had no dots. Perhaps it is more correct to use root word yarad (to lower oneself) rather than radah (to rule over). In the original Hebrew the word starts with a Yod which is a picture of a heavenly messenger or yarad which means to lower oneself and not a Resh which means to rule over.

            St. Francis of Assisi would go to the woods to worship God with the animals. It is said that the animals wild and tame would approach him. That is why you always see St. Francis of Assisi pictured with a bird on his shoulder and a wolf by his side. The story goes that a town was being attacked by a wolf and the town leaders came to St. Francis knowing his affinity for animals and asked if he could help. St. Francis went to the wolf and had a little conversation with the wolf and then reported to the town leaders that the wolf was just hungry and if they would feed him he would not attack. Thus, the town sort of adopted this wolf as a result of St. Francis’s conversation or yiredu with the wolf.

            The industrial Revolution was firmly based on the assumption of humans dominion or radah over creation. And look where that has ended up.

            • Robert Guyton 7.3.2.1.2.1
              27 January 2024 at 10:00 am

              Thanks, Macro – your sample indicates that the full reflection will have been a valuable read. I'm a big fan of St. Francis, o at least, of what I have gleaned from popular stories about him. His epiphany/metanoia interests me very much, especially where he abandoned all, including his clothes, something that's not unknown with young people nowadays experiencing overwhelm of a serious sort; the rejection of all of societies trappings 🙂

              I wonder if you know "Valerian Hare" by Janosh? It's a story for children and reflects the St. Francis's tory beautifully.

              • Macro …
                27 January 2024 at 10:13 am

                I wonder if you know "Valerian Hare" by Janosh?

                No I haven't Robert – now I'm intrigued.

                Will see if I can find a copy.

      • weka 7.3.3
        26 January 2024 at 12:27 pm

        such good points, thank-you.

    • Ad 7.4
      26 January 2024 at 12:34 pm

      Lordie Weka it's a whole post in its own.

      It's more efficient to describe a massive decrease in both left political activism and party membership from the mid 1980s, and a parallel big decrease from even mild political participation in voting either at local or central elections.

      The last big march about climate change, for example, was 2017 which is 6 years ago.

      The last big Maori-focused march was the Foreshore and Seabed hikoi which was 2004.

      That doesn't mean there's fewer people doing good things; it means more activists are choosing to put their energy into local trusts and charities, and only occasionally getting back into it for particular campaigns.

      Now, why that is, is a whole book.

      • weka 7.4.1
        26 January 2024 at 12:38 pm

        I know, I know, I hope to do a post. Maybe you can too. Maybe all the authors could, we run a kind of blog party.

        Was the decrease in party membership a consequence of the shift to neoliberalism or was it already happening?

    • Dennis Frank 7.5
      26 January 2024 at 5:59 pm

      Seems a worthwhile view. I'm in favour of a framing based on triadic structure. Whereas the ancient microcosm/macrocosm binary ruled identity via belief/paradigm, connecting persons into large like-minded group, it makes more sense nowadays to insert mesocosm in between.

      To do so, a user must use metaphysics combined with pragmatism: google only gives us ecosystemic framing via examples of usage, so be pragmatic & use their utility as basis for extending the principle. Define mesocosm as the user's group context. Since commons in the group mind produce like-mindedness in the group, idiosyncrasy works in natural complementarity with collaboration. It allows individuals to align with tam spirit when mutual benefits make that a good idea at the time.

      Most folks operate unconsciously but will shift together in mesocosmic operational contexts they use via the tacit psyche (as verified by Kahneman & Tversky) which Polanyi first provided the philosphical basis for all those decades ago (Personal Knowledge). When public intellectuals realise the number 1 produces holism, 2 produces dualism, 3 relates things to each other (relativism) they'll acquire a principled basis upon which to theorise. Principles are primary components of metaphysics.

      Since 1 provides common operating context to parts of the whole it creates by integrating them, the user connects the framing to their situation experientially to check the match between cerebral waffle & what actually happens. Problematic traditional categories often confuse participants: relevant or bullshit? Half the time folks are uncertain, so we ought to use the grey zone for all such uncertain states of mind. Call the grey zone the third dimension of politics between right & wrong.

      • Dennis Frank 7.5.1
        26 January 2024 at 6:18 pm

        No time to proof-read that so it's team spirit I was mentioning at the end of the second paragraph. The other triad relevant is voter/party/state.

        The gist of where I'm coming from on politics in a state of malaise is that the conceptual reframe enables progress. Others will be unconvinced, feeling that the status quo always wins, so only the proactive will be early adopters.

  8. lprent 8
    26 January 2024 at 3:27 pm

    Sorry about the break in the site. I disabled two plugins on the main site so that I could make them site specific. Got the dreaded white screen of death on the main site.

    It left my test site running, but I couldn't get to the backend for either the multisite or the thestandard. So I couldn't turn the plugin back on.

    Had to relearn wp-cli and how to activate a 'network' plugin.

    Now I have to to figure out how I want that plugin to operate in the new theme. It runs the data for the other site right bar RSS pickups.

    • lprent 8.1
      26 January 2024 at 3:30 pm

      Now I have to figure out how to detach that RSS aggregator from the site. It really needs to run as a separate process like the sphinx search does. I'll look around for a linux tool.

  9. adam 9
    26 January 2024 at 4:20 pm

    International Left news.

    Well done to the Unions in Argentina – A general strike to protest a bill which will widen the powers of their nob of a president.

    Also from, the ABC – war against the far right Junta in Myanmar is going well

    In this shit just got totally sick – IDF using drones to kill civilians. War crime scum, being war crime scum.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-israeli-quadcopters-hi-tech-weapon-menacing-palestinian-civilians

    Russia Vs. Ukraine – Now a utter cluster fuck of a meat grinder. And in both cases just means death for young men who are thrown into the front lines. If you just support one side and don't feel for those young men on both sides. I question your ability to make a moral judgement.

    https://libcom.org/article/darkest-hour-dawn-assemblys-view-another-year-trench-warfare-2024

    • SPC 9.1
      26 January 2024 at 4:53 pm

      War crimes

      1. sniper shooting civilians after they talk with journalists (done to intimidate both the public and media).

      2. use of drones to fire at unarmed civilians in streets makes a war crimes charge list – unless a street/area curfew was made known first (hardly likely if it was a place to gather for food aid etc).

      The question here is whether this candidate will be allowed to contest Putin's re-election. Putin had said allowed candidates would be those not opposed to the war in Ukraine.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68095968

      • adam 9.1.1
        26 January 2024 at 5:54 pm

        mansplaining war crimes, really?

        Also do me a favour and put up something which in not propaganda like the BBC on Russia. I mean I'm no fan of Putin, but even so the BBC are so beyond fucked up in this area of reporting, so lack credibility on Russia to anyone with half a brain.

        • SPC 9.1.1.1
          26 January 2024 at 6:07 pm

          You described the IDF as ***. I described what actions were war crimes by those who did them. The IDF is complicit dependent on orders given.

          Want to cancel the BBC?

          • adam 9.1.1.1.1
            26 January 2024 at 9:21 pm

            The IDF is complicit dependent on orders given.

            Bugger off. Lets just do the great march of return. I can give you hours and hours of the IDF being low life scum.

            Want to cancel the BBC?

            Bloody nora, can you read? I said, on Russia the BBC has no credibility. SMD, you have no credibility on some subjects – do you need to be canceled? Next stupid question.

            [

            SMD, you have no credibility on some subjects – do you need to be canceled? Next stupid question.

            If you ask stupid questions like that here you’re guaranteed reactions that make you think more carefully about what you wish for – Incognito]

            • SPC 9.1.1.1.1.1
              26 January 2024 at 10:27 pm

              And you post that to someone who wrote this a day ago.

              https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25-01-2024/#comment-1986608

              Is the anger at those who do not emote in sync, supposed to discourage debate and welcome only affirmation? Is that not a little tribal?

              As for the BBC report it was based on an interview with someone standing for President, what about it could be problematic. It’s the BBC and it is Russia?

              • adam …
                27 January 2024 at 1:11 am

                My post had nothing to do with elections in russia – it was about a dumb f*&king war that has turned into a clusterfuck of a meat grinder, and the men at the front. You know the actual working people who are actually being thrown into this sick meat grinder. Did you even read it? Or was party politics in a dictatorship more important?

                News Flash – russia is not a democracy!!!!!!!

                BUT the Beeb.

                I see you have no comment of the Great March of Return. Was it the assassinations you could not handle? The killing of Women and Children by the IDF? The murder of unarmed medics and journalists? What are you scared of? That the IDF you have defened is actually evil – truly moral bankrupt den of scum and villainy? I have seen the building/cars/tents blown up, lost friends, heard the heart breaks, and then seen the bodies.

                The IDF are evil – the most simplest statement in 2024.

                • SPC …
                  27 January 2024 at 2:24 am

                  More anger for not emoting in sync.

                  I would have thought the relevance of a Russian standing for President, on a policy of ending the war relevant as to a tiring of the loss of life, (Ukraine of the war zone the one unable to hold an election) fairly obvious.

                  I see you have no comment of the Great March of Return.

                  I mentioned something about it on the 25th – the relevance of the link in the post at 10.27pm.

                  It appears discourse is not always the wise option.

            • Incognito 9.1.1.1.1.2
              27 January 2024 at 8:54 pm

              Mod note

              • adam …
                30 January 2024 at 10:25 pm

                Not even sure what you said, care to clarify?

                Because out of context many things go awry.

                • Incognito …
                  31 January 2024 at 6:46 pm

                  Thank you for asking clarification.

                  The context is easy. I included a direct quote of your offence in the Mod note. The idea being that you’d pay attention to what you said.

                  Let’s start with this site’s Policy (https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/), which you should know very well by now. Right at the top:

                  Rules

                  We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views. But this site run for reasonably rational debate between dissenting viewpoints and we intend to keep it operating that way.

                  What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others. We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate.

                  Cancelling is excluding others and suggesting or threatening this therefore draws the inevitable response of the Moderators here. In any case, you don’t have the means to cancel other commenters whom you (strongly) disagree with and/or dislike. Thus, it was a stupid question, even if it was rhetorical. And preceding it with the acronym “SMD” was particularly dim-witted.

                  If you cannot stick to the Policy and engage in robust & civil debate here then take your aggro somewhere else. I note that this is not the first time Mods pull you up on this behaviour.

                  • adam …
                    7 February 2024 at 1:35 am

                    Context – please re-read his comment about cancelling the BBC – which is stupid statement and totally at odds with what I said.

                    My response, as always is not angry, just forthright. So lets review – My point was a media outlet is not trustworthy on a topic, the other punter went to utter stupidity about me cancelling said media outlet. My response was to point it was like cancelling them and their Small Minded Dementia – utter stupidity. How can you read it any other way, unless your looking to read it another way.

                    Because

                    When have I ever supported cancelling here or anywhere, and offered an opinion contrary to – thinking anyone who supports such cancelling or censorship, is quite frankly, an authoritarian tool. If we are talking about not first times and such.

                    So thank you for the clarification.

                    • weka …
                      7 February 2024 at 8:32 am

                      I get what you are saying here adam, and agree that you weren't suggesting cancellation but instead indirectly pointing out the problem with the previous comment.

                      But it would go a long way if you stopped casting aspersions on other commenters, and now a moderator. This is why you come across as aggro. And it makes some of your comments hard to parse.

                      You should be aware that often mods are reading comments in the backend list as they are published ie out of context.

  11. SPC 11
    26 January 2024 at 8:53 pm

    January 26 India's Republic Day – and well poised to win by an innings vs England in a test match

    January 26 Australia's Invasion Day – Smith fails to impersonate Warner and they collapse and look likely to trail the West Indies on the first innings by 100-200 runs.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2024/01/australia-day-protests-erupt-nationwide-against-invasion-day-police-chase-protesters-at-parliament.html

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.