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Open Mike 26/08/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 26th, 2017 - 192 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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192 comments on “Open Mike 26/08/2017 ”

  1. The decrypter 1

    IMHO Jacindas rise through Labours ranks to leader has been engineered by some very, very clever tactics. Andrew, with guidance and support set the party up to become a potential winner with Jacindar in mind some time ago. Her obvious -“to the backroom planners,” skills have been carefully kept up their sleeves until being unleashed these last few weeks Cloth caps off to all of you..

    • CoroDale 1.1

      Multi Choice Response

      A) BAU
      B) Think I’m missing your point.
      C) Was that post from a bot?
      D) Why am I responding to that?

    • Graeme 1.2

      It’s got that look about it, and rather well done when you look at it from that angle. If you’ve read and understood Sun Tzu’s Art of War you will appreciate it even more. A lovely bait and switch.

      • Pat 1.2.1

        lol…only credible if you believe Labour plan that far ahead, are organised enough t implement it …..oh, and control the votes of the districts and unions…..yeah,nah

        • marty mars

          Yep the look of happy realisation on everyone’s face from JA down shows that this was an unknown that has paid off. Big ups to JA – she alone has accepted the weight on her shoulders and she’s away, carrying it up the hill. We either help her or get out the road imo. That’s if we want a change of government of course.

          • The Chairman

            We require more than a change of Government, Marty. So why don’t you stop accepting a lowering of the bar and help us achieve that?

            • CoroDale

              Are rumors true that the Nazis are planing a march outside the Reserve Bank? Tidy dog owners may be able to help.

              Open Mike 26/08/2017

              • The Chairman

                • CoroDale

                  Yeah, on steps of Reserve Bank NZ. The State is planning to erect a statue of a Hobbit with BROWN SKIN! Nazis are on to it. The Bolsheviks with be there throwing food, which is sure to attract big crowd of homeless folk. Looks like the poor bankers are going to get caught in the middle of it!

            • marty mars

              Chairman I’m not interested in your bullshit – i don’t believe what you say sorry.

              • The Chairman

                You’re free to believe whatever you like, Marty. But do refrain from calling “bullshit” unless you are prepared to substantiate it.

                Nevertheless, do tell us, do you also think the Salvation Army report is “bullshit”?

                • McFlock

                  Asks for substantiation of bullshit allegation, then provides it with random, imprecise, passive-aggressive segue.

                  • The Chairman

                    “Then provides it with random, imprecise, passive-aggressive segue.”

                    No, it was a question actually.

                    I was trying to establish what Marty is running around crying bullshit over.

                    • McFlock

                      Because the sallys have only ever written one report?

                      But the answer to your question is simple. Your comment.

                    • The Chairman

                      I’m not (a bullshitter) and I do (provide links).

                      However, in this case Marty was aware of the report, thus there was no need. I wasn’t talking to everybody in this instance, I was replying directly to Marty.

                    • McFlock

                      So at best that removes “imprecise”.
                      Good for you.

                  • The Chairman

                    Marty knew which report I was referring too.

                    And if you were more informed, perhaps you would too.

                    My comment was a question and it wasn’t bullshit, so hell knows what you are on about. Are you on the turps?

                    • McFlock

                      If you weren’t a bullshitter, you’d provide links so everyone would know what you’re talking about.

                  • The Chairman

                    You are overlooking the fact it was a genuine question and not a passive-aggressive segue.

                • No chair just you are the bullshitter bullshitting about bullshit. Clear enough noddy?

                  • The Chairman

                    “No chair just you are the bullshitter bullshitting about bullshit.”

                    Really? Where is this “bullshit” you’re asserting too, Marty?

                    • You said I accepted a lowering of the bar in your first comment to me upthread – that is bullshit and a lie, completely made up and fabricated.

                  • The Chairman

                    By not speaking out on their policy short comings and telling people to get in behind and help her, you are accepting a lowering of the bar, Marty. And you are also encouraging others too. Can you not see that?

                    Moreover, by running down others (calling them naysayers, etc) and implying they shouldn’t speak out (claiming there is no justification) comes across as a bit standoverish. Bully boy.

                    • Sure (deleted) lol – because you aren’t worth it chair. Your 2nd rate arguments, temperment and political nous are just not my cup of tea. Mate, you are a slimespinning bullshit artist who pretend cases for the ‘true left’ whilst putting the boot into labour every chance you get and then saying you’re doing it because you are voting Green. I. don’t. believe. you.

                    • The Chairman

                      “Because you aren’t worth it chair.”

                      It’s not about me, Marty. It’s about doing what’s right.

                      Marty, you called me a bullshitter, yet you didn’t refute my comeback that showed you up for what you are.

                      I rather vote Labour, Marty, but can’t bring myself to accept their lowering of the bar. Hence, I’m trying to do something about it.

                      If you think discussing policy is putting the boot in, you need to harden up. I haven’t even got my boots on yet.

                      Like i said before, Marty, you’re free to believe what you like.

                    • In Vino

                      Mr Chairman, your concern trolling is always a bore.
                      +1 to Marty and McFlock.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    This is the literal exemplar of publicity you can’t buy:


    Great stuff!!

  3. Ed 3

    Duncan Garner: After nine years in power, why is National’s report card so full of fails?

    “Because the list of blind spots for National is too long. If this is success then our standards have slipped.

    We have families living in cars. I saw one woman and her two kids the other night at the top of my street. It’s not how we do thing in New Zealand. Except now it is.

    We have a Government that is too hands off. Let the market sort it. But markets fail. Markets don’t build emergency, social, state and affordable houses.

    Governments, in partnership, lead and build. National utterly failed this group of struggling and increasingly bewildered and powerless New Zealanders.

    The Government now buys entire motels to house the homeless and English says that’s a good thing, it’s unprecedented. Sure is. It’s National’s emblem of failure. The gap between the haves and have-nots appears starker than ever.

    National also packed the immigrants in to the rafters in record numbers. Wages as a result have been suppressed.

    They also forgot to plan where everyone will live. More than 140 people arrive in Auckland every day, sadly housing is provided for just 80 of them.

    The poorest Kiwis have been squeezed to the sidelines. Auckland needs 14,000 homes built a year to meet demand.

    After nine years of National the past year has seen just 7000 homes finished. Our infrastructure is creaking. The average price of a house in Auckland is more than $1m.

    Good luck. First home buyers should be marching in the streets. They face renting for life. Or buying in Huntly or Levin.

    National is also ambivalent on climate change, dirty rivers and our waterways. Action is needed now, not another kick for touch.

    Polluters should pay. Get this into law. They do in Britain. Emissions have reduced. Why the free pass for our polluters?

    Yes the headline numbers around the economy look good. And they are. But the family tree underneath is stressed and in some instances broken.

    Over the next 28 days ask yourself this question: Am I living that promised Brighter Future?”


    • Tracey 3.1

      He did make a couple of odd comments about Labour in there.

      Decade of deficits? Didnt Labour get to surplus only to spend it in 2008… like National are doing now? There is a reason Nats dont want to cool.immigration and housing because factor those into cpi and inflation and the truth of their management and many lives is laid bare.

    • tracey 3.2

      Decade of deficits? Didnt Labour get to surplus only to spend it in 2008… like National are doing now? There is a reason Nats dont want to cool.immigration and housing because factor those into cpi and inflation and the truth of their management and many lives is laid bare.

      • Nic the NZer 3.2.1

        The NZ governments spending capacity is unaffected by the surplus/deficit situation. As a currency issuer it can always afford to buy everything for sale in NZ dollers. The question of what gets funded in the budget and how much is one of values but never capacity.

    • Bearded Git 3.3

      Garmer doesn’t mention NZ government net debt that between 2008 and 2016 has risen from 5.4% of GDP (when Labour lost power) to 24.6% of GDP.

      Net government debt at 2016 was $62 billion. If the Nats had kept the ratio the same as that bequeathed it by Labour debt would only be $14 billion.

      The Nats always try to blame the $48 billion gap on the GFC and earthquakes, but after insurance inflows and the EQC the earthquakes cost less than $20 billion and NZ came out of the GFC largely unscathed.

      THE FACT IS THE NATS HAVE BORROWED TO GIVE LOWER TAXES (or not increase or impose taxes) mostly to the better off. The first thing they did after winning in 2008 was to give tax cuts of over a billion a year to the better off. They also stopped contributions to the Cullen Fund (adding more billions to the $48 billion gap) leaving future governments to pick up the tab.

      This is not sound or fair management of the economy; major fail.

      • The first thing they did after winning in 2008 was to give tax cuts of over a billion a year to the better off.

        That’s not precisely correct. It lost the government a billion dollars of income but they actually decreased taxes upon the rich by quite a bit more than that. The difference was put upon the poor via higher GST.

  4. Ed 4

    Mike Hosking’s views and attitude dangerous to TVNZ’s integrity

    ‘To TVNZ: Hosking cannot speak our native language correctly. He didn’t apologise after making a mistake. He has not acknowledged the damage he may have done and for that.

    After blaming the Māori Party for his own flippant remarks, can we really say he deserves his position as a TV commentator or the privilege of hosting our election debates?

    TVNZ, Hosking’s poisonous attitude is dangerous to your company’s integrity. Get him off.’


    • CoroDale 4.1

      TVNZ’s integrity is just nostalgia from when we where pure and innocent.

    • riffer 4.2

      True, but what’s more interesting is that these last two quoted articles are the top stories under the main story about the disastrous Afghanistan mission.

      The tide does seem to turn at times.

      • CoroDale 4.2.1

        So three terms of the bad-cop seems to be enough. Let the good-cop deal with a tsunami from falling house prices. Remind us how good the bad-cop really was? Noooooooooo, the darkness has taken me. See the light, see the light, see the light!

  5. Cinny 5

    National launch their campaign in Auckland this weekend, will be very interesting to see how many turn out compared with the thousands that flocked to see Jacinda last weekend.

    Wonder if National will be renting a crowd? Wouldn’t put it past them.

    Still reeling after list Mp Maureen Pughs supporter (maybe her campaign manager) assured my 12 year old that he was happy to swim in rivers where cows were shitting and she should have no problem with it as well. What a muppet.

    • Ed 5.1

      At Sky City?

    • Unfortunate gnat name with that story. I have so wanted to get Pugh and English (heh that goes together nicely) signs down over here – smug smiles and all but they are reminders of what we don’t want so all good. Sick of not seeing the new labour ones – come on Damien the election is just about here.

      • Cinny 5.2.1

        Marty, the new labour signs have just gone up here over the last few days and they look fantastic, no doubt they will go up down the coast soon as, maybe even this weekend.

        Turns out Pugh has had two signs defaced here. “No Thanks” spray painted in large black letters, polite and to the point. She’s not well liked at all.

        She said yesterday that she hadn’t set up an office in Motueka this election because she was sick of her office being vandalised during the last election.

        It wasn’t me who broke her window, but I will raise my hand for taping up notices pointing out she was never in her office and questioning her record as mayor of Westland. Sure the notices snowballed as others decided to write down their feelings and tape them onto her doors and window, but thats not vandalism that is information sharing 😀

        Marty she turned up to meet the candidates in collingwood wearing sparkly shoes, the farmers were not impressed.

        Wondering where she is on the list this time

        • marty mars

          Yes I heard the Collingwood crew had some head scratching going on. In the bay I want the new labour sign – maybe today cos it’s a good day for the market here.

          • Cinny

            Gosh yes the “Clean Rivers’ sign would look super in the bay, was sure I heard yesterday they were going up this weekend.

        • Matiri

          Maureen Pugh is 44 on the list. Pretty invisible so far in our part of the electorate.

        • Ms Fargo

          Maureen Pugh sounds very frightened…

  6. garibaldi 7

    Does anyone know if this is true?
    NZ is increasing it’s military force in Afghanistan by 30%. It is putting in 3 more soldiers to increase it’s “non-combatants” to 13 !
    WTF, are we really the laughing stock of the World?

  7. CoroDale 8

    Can anyone confirm, deign or spread this rumor:

    Has Sue Bradford replaced herself with a stunt double on leaving parliament?

    National Security are shitting themselves. The rebellion has teamed up with the hobbits and has a cave network stretching the full length SH1! The State is helpless. If they evict hobbits, the loss of tourism will bring down the whole system!

    • Leave Sue alone bud.

      • CoroDale 8.1.1

        Do you mean don’t blow her cover? She put the Greens on the map, but she out-grew the map. Then I liked her again. Folk like her are no good locked up in parliament. Glade Catherine D is free again. Sitting on the motor-way certainly did it for me. (that was the link, bit sloppy sorry) I would truly love to see her backed with a hobbit collaboration. Though I’ve no idea what she’s doing these days. That’s the blessing of being under cover I guess 😉

  8. CoroDale 9

    Riddle Time

    Rooster crows, sun to rise.
    Decades pass, clucky Govt sits,
    Wild chicken, hiding all the eggs.
    Solving light rises in the East.
    Labour know it in the 30’s ‘n’ 40’s.
    Which came first, the money or the loan?

  9. Sans Cle 10

    Imaginative response to a planned alt-right March in San Francisco this weekend… Turd Reich
    Its’s interesting to see non-violence as a deterrent.

    • Cinny 10.1

      That’s hard case as, thanks for sharing.

      Sans Cle, seen this on Al Jazeera?

      “More than 2,100 people have “adopted a Nazi” in the US, raising more than $134,000 to help neo-Nazis and white supremacists “fund their own demise”.


      • Sans Cle 10.1.1

        Thanks Cinny. It’s good to see. I still cannot resolve complete non-violence (as logical conclusion to non violence is lack of self defence: victims having a moral (non-violent) authority over Nazi prison guards in Auschwitz didn’t help their cause, when led to the gas chambers). Hopefully we, as humanity, can use non-violent methods against violent extremism.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Make no mistake, their violence is the everyday reality for the targets of their prejudice. Turning up in numbers might stop a hate-march but it won’t stop the lower-level street violence and discrimination.

  10. Cinny 11

    Leaders debate on The Nation this morning at 9:30 am

    Edit: it’s just started


    Mana Leaders debating

    • Dspare 11.1

      Thanks for the link Cinny, I was busy this morning but just tried to watch it. The sound quality was horrendous with constant feedback – may try again later when I’m not on headphones.

      Bradbury has a review of it, but he seems to be very biased towards Morgan – apparently he did well here (but then according to Bradbury, he also won the Māori TV debate too; something no one else noticed, I’m sure it has nothing to do with the banner ad TOP has taken out on TDB).


  11. Sanctuary 12

    When is the next round of polls due, anyone know?

  12. Graeme 14

    The Sustainable Business Council released its Election Manifesto yesterday,


    “As the election looms, the Sustainable Business Council Election Manifesto has revealed many leading New Zealand businesses are uneasy about the gap they see between the prosperous and the poor, and they see action on climate change as a priority.”

    My reading of the article linked above and the manifesto linked within is of a quite explicit rejection of National’s leadership of our society and environment. It also aligns closely with Labour and Green intentions.

    The members of this organisation are our top companies, so really interesting that they have come out like this.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      Don’t forget the lie that the National Party encourages its followers to repeat to one another: no-one in the “real world” supports left wing policies.

      The Sustainable Business Council just delivered yet another rebuttal of the lie. Not that that will stop the National Party spreading it. As DtB is fond of pointing out, if they didn’t lie about everything they represent, they’d never get elected.

      • Graeme 14.1.1

        It’ll be interesting to see how National respond to this, will they suddenly embrace climate change and sustainability (shit, that’ll be entertaining on KB and sewer) or do they tough it out and try and say Sustainable Business Council are deluded.

        Either way, I think they are fucked. Both approaches are going to loose them votes.

  13. Herodotus 15

    Spent the last 2 weeks trying to get builders to pay their accounts for materials. There is a large amount of stress and poor cash flows with spec houses not selling and very few “design and builds” out there.
    Hate to be the next govt as there is so much pent up stress within the industry(i image that other sectors within NZ are in a similar situation), and the Fletcher situation is just 1 large embodiment of this.
    Not to worry, should Labour lead the next govt- National will have an out in 2020 as all the countries issues will be Labours fault … again.
    I hope my observations are wrong, but this has been building up for over a year, it hasn’t presented itself in a manner that most can see.

    • Cricklewood 15.1

      There is a pile of cash flow pressure in the industry currently, a lack of skilled workforce to get through the workload and fast rising overhead costs have blown out pricing done 3-6months prior. It’s not pretty out there and it doesn’t take much to tip a reasonably large company over especially if they have financed large amounts to buy machinary to facilitate growth.

      The lack of traditional 3-4 year apprenticeship training over the last 15 years or so is really hitting home now.
      Damn near a generation of skills haven’t been passed on and there is some really shoddy work going on due to people not knowing better…

    • tracey 15.2

      I am in Rolleston in Christchurch. Today while walking the dogs we counted 42 homes under construction and about 5 which have been for sale since Feb.

  14. patricia bremner 16

    Labour has just announced $8 Dr. visits for community card holders, among other improvements. More for the poor.

    • Ad 16.1

      And a great populist media-catch that will ruin National’s weekend. Excellent work again from Labour.

      Labour ready to overtake National in the polls.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2

      So private/public partnerships are ok when the private partner is unemployed?

      Quit screwing around Labour and fully fund healthcare for the poor.

  15. Bearded Git 17

    Latest policy from National-freedom campers. Vans without toilet facilities will not be able to overnight less than 200 metres from toilet facilities.

    Apart from being pathetic-there are surely bigger issues-this is very Nanny State. it is also probably impossible to realistically enforce.

    The way to go is to build more facilities at rest stops to welcome our tourists, not hassle them.

    We are looking at a dying regime.

    • Graeme 17.1


      Pathetic is really the only description of this. It’s nothing new, just a tepid re-heat of the existing situation. A tired, out of touch government on the way out.

      The freedom camping and AirBnB thing is starting to really piss people off down here. Hotel operators have had enough of paying full rates and compliance while the cowboys skim off the cream. Heard of a situation where a hotel is very quiet while the AirBnBs down the street are full and non-compliant, private investigators in the bushes with cameras, the whole nine yards. Hotel also can’t get staff because there’s no rental accomodation.

      This is another one from last week, https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/tourism-tensions-boil-queenstown

      • Bearded Git 17.1.1

        AirBnB should not be confused with Freedom Camping. Entirely separate issues.

        Having said that I agree that AirBnb is an issue too-I live near Wanaka. The QLDC is able to do something about this through its rating policy and monitoring.

        • Graeme

          The extent of it getting beyond them IMO, and the 90 days / year threshold for consent makes it really hard to enforce quickly.

          My conflating of the two issues was to point out that this government has badly mismanaged tourism, about the only thing they are doing well is destroying the industry’s value proposition and turning New Zealand into a destination for low value mass markets.

          • Bearded Git

            Backpackers are usually well-educated middle class people who spend hundreds of millions of dollars in our economy and then come back as yuppies 15-20 years later and spend oodles. That is if they have had a good experience here in the first place. Hassling them is not consistent with this.

            • Graeme

              The mismanagement I’m talking about is that tourism yield per visitor has gone down since 2008. We’re getting more visitors, but getting much less out of them. Also, the freedom camper is a subset of the backpacker market and the ones that are causing problems are a very small subset of visitors in vans.

              National’s brain fart doesn’t say anything new, as I said it’s just stating what’s already happening, and missing the real issues . It also seems aimed at existing National voters which looks a bit desperate.

      • Dspare 17.1.2

        I get that freedom camping by tourists rankles with many. Although given the number of kiwis who are proud of doing similar on their OE, that does seem a bit churlish. Of course, no one wants their local public spaces to become open sewers, but I’m with BG that the answer to this is more facilities.

        What concerns me is that anti-freedom camping laws are also anti-homeless laws. If people are reduced to living out of their cars, then a spot fine backed up by threat of legal action for noncompliance isn’t going to help matters. Only allowing vehicular habitation to those who can afford; a camper with contained toilet, means the poor who can’t afford such luxuries are the target. Maybe if buckets with chemicals in them were counted as self-contained toilets and available from foodbanks that might help? Though that brings the problem of spillage and question of where they can be emptied.

        Otherwise, these are just vagrancy laws under another name.

    • Gabby 17.2

      I don’t suppose it would be possible to do both. You know, build more loos and compel their use. Of course the burden of building is going to fall on relatively few ratepayers.

    • tracey 17.3

      I am surprised they are not blaming the freedom campers for the dirty rivers

    • tracey 17.4

      Exactly. Which magic pixies will be enforcing this?

      • Graeme 17.4.1

        LOL, ohh so we’ll have magic pixies patrolling Bill’s 10 billion worth of new roads that look like they are going to be paid for from the magic money tree

  16. adam 18

    Sorry repeating myself, but if you care about the world as a whole you should read this.

    So, well corporations are the enemy. They do deceit, and only worship money. They do not care about you or your family.

    The biggest oil company lied for 40 years knowing that Global Warming is a major issue.


  17. Bearded Git 19

    Henry Cooke is making things up again in the Herald today. He says:

    “The Green Party’s late entry into the scene on Thursday, breaking an unspoken deal they had with Labour….”

    Wrong Henry, there was no deal. The Greens withdrew their candidate as a favour to Labour, the sole reason being to give Greg O’Connor a better chance of beating Peter Dunne, and so reducing the Right’s voting power by one in parliament. When Dunne ran for the hills there was no longer any reason for the Greens not to have a candidate, so they are now treating Ohariu the same as all of the other electorates. Cooke is here:


    What is most worrying is that the usually superb Gordon Campbell got the Ohariu situation wrong on his blog. Perhaps, like Vernon Small and the rest of the MSM, he has an anti-Green bias and would like to see them gone?

    Labour will not be able to form a genuinely progressive government if the Greens fall below 5%. The MSM knows this.

    • Dspare 19.1

      Bearded Git
      Even saying; “The Greens withdrew their candidate as a favour to Labour”, is overstating the amount of deal-making. More; the GP saw that it was in their own interest to not stand a candidate, but now that Dunne is no longer a factor have got the candidate from 2014 back to boost their profile.
      Gordon Campbell has not had an anti-Green bias in the past, If anything he has pro-Green sympathies than he tries to keep in check in the pursuit of journalistic integrity. His piece reads to me as more a warning about feeding self-fulfilling perceptions of vulnerability rather than an attempt to kick a party when it is down.


    • tracey 19.2

      Also the MOU, as I understand it, ends on Election Day.

      There does seem to be a ghoulish desire to kill off the Greens. Almost lije the Press Gallery do not like a mirror held to them either. All the blind eyes turned, shallow reporting…

  18. Sanctuary 20

    And the Confederacy loses again… one left hook at a time.

  19. Ad 21

    With Houston and Austin directly in the path of the new category 4 hurricane Harvey, the strongest storm to hit the US since 2005 could not come as a more brutal reminder of the weather and the climate to this US administration.

    • Anne 21.1

      Actually category 4 cyclones (as we call them) in historical terms are two a dime as the Yanks would say, so the chances of this administration seeing anything untoward is very remote. Even so, they are going to occur with ever increasing frequency but I doubt that will have much effect on them either. Deniers cannot see past the end of their noses because anything further is beyond their brains’ ability to cognate.

  20. Cave Johnson 22

    Journalist Tim Murphy on Twitter…

    Tim Murphy @tmurphyNZ
    Turns out those who said this mad election had one more explosive convulsion to come weren’t wrong. Could be soon. #motherofallscandals
    1:16 PM · Aug 26, 2017

    • Cave Johnson 22.1

      Tim Murphy @tmurphyNZ
      Could be real collateral damage.
      1:18 PM · Aug 26, 2017

    • Cave Johnson 22.2

      Tim Murphy @tmurphyNZ
      Replying to @cazz_h
      Soon. This could be the Royal Flush of scandals….

      Tim goes on to later say that the metaphor he used is not random. He adds that the news will likely break Monday.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 22.3

      Nothing would surprise me, including if it turned out this isn’t about Bill English’s text messages.

    • Muttonbird 22.4

      Who’s out of the country apart from…John Key!

    • millsy 22.5

      Yeah well, we shall see. Not getting my hopes up.

      • Robert Guyton 22.6.1

        Tim Murphy
        “You can strangle the rooster but the dawn will still come”
        Kim Young Sam

        “CoroDale 9
        26 August 2017 at 8:27 am
        Riddle Time

        Rooster crows, sun to rise.
        Decades pass, clucky Govt sits,
        Wild chicken, hiding all the eggs.
        Solving light rises in the East.
        Labour know it in the 30’s ‘n’ 40’s.
        Which came first, the money or the loan?”

    • McFlock 22.7

      between “collateral” and the cards, maybe someone’s been playing silly buggers with someone else’s cash.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 22.7.1

        Damage that hurts more than one party…

        • In Vino

          Only a memorandum of understanding could qualify? Especially now that bow-tie has bowed out?
          Lord, I remember when Brian Edwards was going to stand for labour in Mirimar, I think. Out came the news that he was ‘living in sin’. Hugely shocking back then – he had to withdraw.
          So what can this new scandal be? Overdue library books??

          • One Anonymous Bloke

            Well, if it were about Todd Barclay’s criminal behaviour and the corruption stemming from it, it could hurt a lot of senior National Party pondscum, and that would fit the metaphor rather well.

            Or it could be about Jacinda’s affair with Winston and James Shaw and Marama Fox. No, wait, that’s only four cards.

            Time will tell.

          • Mrs Brillo

            Brian Edwards DID stand for Labour in Miramar, he did not withdraw. He managed to lose the safeish Labour seat despite a swing to Labour nation wide.
            He was living with another woman while still married, as the front page of Truth pointed out. The electorate took a dim view, but whether of his reputation or his TV persona, only they know.

            • In Vino

              Correction accepted. I remember being disappointed.. I would think it was the ‘living in sin’ thing that counted..

  21. Anne 23

    Royal Flush – a set of cards that a player has in a card game (such as poker) that are all of the same suit (such as diamonds) and are the most valuable cards (the ace, king, queen, jack, and ten) in that suit.

    Does a suit pertain to a particular political party and does it involve a lot of money changing hands in a clandestine manner?

    I’ll run with that line anyway. 😈

    • Cave Johnson 23.1

      Maybe someone just wants a republic…

      • Anne 23.1.1

        But that ain’t a scandal.

      • Muttonbird 23.1.2

        Are you saying it’s about Ardern’s call for a discussion on a republic?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Double Dipper is a monarchist. Or it’s a cryptic segue derived from the metaphor…or it means that every single party leader left will have to resign 😈

      • Cave Johnson 23.1.3

        We have Royal Flush (royalties? Kingmaker?). We have Collateral Damage (Afghanistan?). We have Mother of all scandals (budget? Shipley?). 3 clues.

        His parting comment was “I’ve said too much, I’ve said too little” (Andrew?).

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          The stuff before the fact is called “hype”. That said, I’ll stop speculating until something concrete emerges.

          …except to say this: something concrete has emerged re: English’s text messages, Murphy says “no-one has” them. I take it that includes Dickson.

          • weka

            emerged today?

            Not sure what the point of Murphy’s text was tbh. Apart from ragging on tweeps.

            • One Anonymous Bloke

              Looks like marketing to me.

              • weka

                I guess, although it hasn’t been retweeted that many times, so hard to know how much it’s gone beyond the people that would have picked it up quickly on Monday morning anyway. That against a bunch of people wild speculating and presumably mostly getting it wrong.

                • weka

                  Maybe Murphy was also signalling to other media that Newsroom had the story and was running it soon.

              • Yep game playing.

          • tracey

            You mean Honest Bill hasn’t asked his Telcom to retrieve his messages so he can be transparent????

        • tracey

          Peters loves the flutter on the horses

    • joe90 23.2

      Royal flush / top of the deck / they’re all involved?

      • Psych nurse 23.2.1

        Royal flush=leadership change=Paula Benefit fraud.

        • Anne

          Well, since there are two scandals (according to M Bradbury) coming, my pick is that’s one of them.

        • tracey

          Why are we assuming it is to do with nats? Wouldnt they have had the wallet out trawling for scandals since little was rolled/resigned?

  22. joe90 24

    Oh dear.

    Worst couplet: “Three things taught me conservative love / Jesus, Ronald Reagan, plus Atlas Shrugged”


    Worst couplet: “People want to go against the word of God and live alternative / the media wants to crucify conservatives”


    Worst couplet: “After spending goes up, you gotta borrow some mo’ / borrowin’ from the Chinese like (Oh, my lawd!)”


    Worst couplet: “I just want to make America great / I just want to have a Trump Steak on my plate.”


  23. The Chairman 25

    Good to see Labour upping their game and outplaying National in this regard (see link below).


    Now we need to see them outplay National on social housing. National are offering to build 2000 state homes compared to Labour’s 1000.

    • McFlock 25.1

      regardless of whether what you say is true, national promises are worthless.

      • The Chairman 25.1.1

        If you were more informed, you’d know it’s true.

        At around 00:55 in the link below

        Regardless if it turns out to be worthless, we can only work with what they commit too.

        And like the $18 doctors visits, National have upped their game.

        However, Labour have just outplayed them on the cost of doctors visits, now we need to see them up their game and outplay them in social housing.

        • McFlock

          There’s a joke going around Dunedin lately: “last election we were promised a hospital, and all we got were frozen meals trucked down from Auckland”.

          Only a fool works with the promises of a proven liar.

          • The Chairman

            We are dealing with politicians, so we can’t really trust any of them.

            So it doesn’t leave us with much choice. We can either work with what they commit too. Or we can think they are all full of shit and leave them to it. Waste of time commenting on policy if it’s all bullshit.

            And when it comes to trust, Labour also have a lot to make up for. They are distrusted by a number on the left and on the right.

            • McFlock

              That flavour of bullshit you did just there is what we call a “false equivalence”.

              Thing about most of the criticism of Labour from the left that I see is based on perceived holes in their policies, or matters of interpretation. Whereas national are less than outright liars, the actual truth is irrelevant to them, They’re bullshitters, like you.

              • The Chairman

                I’m not a bullshitter. And despite your bluster, seeing as you haven’t substantiated your assertion, it makes you look like one.

                A number from the left haven’t regained the trust lost from Rogernomics and the grip the right within still hold today.

                So much for your false equivalence fallacy.

                • McFlock

                  We’re discussing the trustworthiness of policy promises.

                  My assertion regarded what I saw, being that it is the perceived shortcomings in policy that Labour is criticised for, not the truthfulness. It is my observation. You are welcome to show a “left wing” comment that says a Labour policy is an outright lie.

                  That is not equivalent to just being a load of bullshit.

                  • The Chairman

                    Your initial assertion was directed at the lack of trust of National.

                    When I made this comment: “And when it comes to trust, Labour also have a lot to make up for.” I extended it out from policy to overall trust.

                    And then went on to say: “They are distrusted by a number on the left and on the right.” Hence, my point stands.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, so now you’re claiming that it wasn’t false equivalence, you merely shifted the goalposts so that you could bring Labour into it.

                      You’re so full of bullshit it’s hilarious.

                      In an argument as to whether Labour need to match national policy promises, your new goalposts are irrelevant. Labour don’t need to “up their game” simply to match promises that no sane person would trust.

                      If national promise unicorns, Labour don’t need to promise unicorns with rainbow farts. They just need reasonable policies that show they plan to govern competently.

                  • The Chairman

                    You are the one claiming false equivalence. I never did.

                    I extended the discussion on trust to overall trust to show National isn’t the only one to have voter trust issues.

                    You seem to have forgotten Labour has just upped their game ($8 doctors visits) thus not only matching Nationals policy, but also bettering it.

                    And as for social housing. Not only do labour need to up their game because National is offering more (which Labour should find embarrassing) it may also cost them votes and may be problematic in the up and coming leaders debate.

                    On a side note,10,000 homes compared to 1000 state homes indicates to voters where their values sit. As a comparison, Hone is offering to build 10,000 state homes.

                    Additionally, and more importantly, Labour need to up their game in this area because what they’re offering is vastly insufficient. As you can see in the earlier link I provided you.

                    • McFlock

                      lol Labour don’t need to do a thing you suggest (shifting goalposts included). But I’m sure they’d thank you for your concern.

                • A number from the left haven’t regained the trust lost from Rogernomics ….

                  And fuck isn’t it annoyingly obvious on this blog’s comments threads every day. It isn’t 1986 any more, get over it. In the actually-existing Now, the one in which the 4th Labour government is 27 years in the past, you have two choices in this election: continuing the existing National-led government or replacing it with a Labour-led one. The Chairman’s perfect government isn’t on the menu – pick from the two options available, and keep in mind that “no vote” equates to “I choose to continue the current National-led government.”

                  • The Chairman

                    “The Chairman’s perfect government isn’t on the menu”

                    But it could be, if more were unwilling to accept Labour’s lowering of the bar and opted to vote for another party on the left.

                    If we can get Labour to up their game, that would be great. They don’t need to be perfect, but they do need to be a lot better.

                    Alternatively, if we want genuine change of more significance we need to get the Greens up higher.

                    So the question the left needs to ask is do we just want to change the Government or do we want more significant change?

                    To achieve this we need to apply more pressure on Labour and/or vote Green and help give them more clout.

            • Draco T Bastard

              We are dealing with politicians, so we can’t really trust any of them.

              Oh, BS.

              There’s some politicians we can actually trust. They’re not in National or ACT.

              • The Chairman

                You may (trust them). A good number don’t.

                • McFlock

                  lol “a good number” 🙄

                • Incognito

                  If a person can be trusted it does not automatically follow that this person will be trusted. This choice is influenced by personal bias & prejudice (heuristics such as ‘common sense’), ignorance and false beliefs, irrational fear or desire, mental apathy & laziness, to name just a few. The point I want to make is that many people are projecting, psychologically speaking, when it comes to politicians (and many others for that matter). This includes projection of hope, which may be an important factor in the recent rise in the polls of Labour.

                • Trust, like facts in general, aren’t a popularity contest.

          • weka

            “There’s a joke going around Dunedin lately: “last election we were promised a hospital, and all we got were frozen meals trucked down from Auckland”.

            Only a fool works with the promises of a proven liar.”

            Very good.

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          National have upped their game.

          …by telling the same lies they’ve been telling for the last forty thousand years, with greater frequency.

          Only Labour could lose to this gameplan.

    • CoroDale 26.1

      The Guardian is more than just MSM, they use words like; inimical. (survived two paragraphs and checked a paragraph or two, skimmed, and two more links, hoping for meat, but just got stuff like this:

      “Attempts to limit competition are treated as inimical to liberty.” (from neo-liberal perspective) https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

      Then please allow me to predict a little paradox to their statement and general tone: If our next govt was to, “back fiscal spending with state cash”, the action would not be inimical from internal economic factors (though I’m sure their supply-n-demand hypnosis would claim otherwise). It would be inimical from the external hand of our neo-liberal God-Fathers. And it would be the anti-thesis of liberty on their minds. Our currency would be sent to the time-out corner, for even thoughts of competing with their totalitarian control.

      But genuine thanks for posting a link which is totally on-track regarding the next government’s inimical options. Points out just how big the challenge is, when even the mighty Scottish Guardian…

      • CoroDale 26.1.1

        Oh, I read some more. (Could have better used my time in the cow shed.)

        There was some flag waving for “real democracy” or something, and a bit of stuff like that, and this:

        “…but from humanistic values such as public spiritedness, conscience or the longing for justice.”

        Kinda seemed to be their conclusion.

        Right, I’ll go check on the cows, see if they can’t offer me a few insights.

        • Stuart Munro

          What my students and I conclude is that neo-liberalism consists of a corporate grab of the liberties that the enlightenment brought to citizens in a series of reforms, perhaps most notably the European spring. This is an impropriety in several ways, but perhaps most notably because corporations already enjoy the wealth and patronage of the most privileged classes. The investor/state rules adhering to the TPP are an example – claiming to limit the powers of government to regulate in the public interest effectively usurps the citizens’ franchise.

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