Open Mike 26/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 26th, 2017 - 161 comments
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161 comments on “Open Mike 26/10/2017 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    26 October 2017 at 7:05 am

    Hosking’s daily rant is about the Greens today.
    In it he manages the words ‘ politically correct ‘ and ‘communist’.
    How surprising.

  2. Patricia Bremner 2
    26 October 2017 at 7:10 am

    The Greens need a donation as they are in the red, I’m Labour but have donated to our coalition buddy. Hope others will.

  3. Andre 3
    26 October 2017 at 7:23 am

    Auckland to get a regional fuel tax, to help with public transport improvements. Good, about time. And it’s not like Auckland drivers will be hard done by at the pump. From what I can see, prices in Auckland tend to be lower than pretty much everywhere else in NZ anyway.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11936797

    • Stunned mullet 3.1
      26 October 2017 at 7:29 am

      If the tax take on petrol etc etc that was taken out of Auckland was spent in Auckland I’m not certain this would be necessary. I also suspect the arc will keep pumping up local rates regardless. As usual the taxpayer/ratepayer will be getting royally pumped… same old same old.

      • dv 3.1.1
        26 October 2017 at 7:33 am

        SM, then who should pay for the Auckland infrastructure?

        • Stunned Mullet 3.1.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 8:56 am

          Quite happy for Aucklanders to pay for the Auckland infrastructure as per my comment. Who do you think should pay for regional infrastructure ?

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 10:08 am

            You seem to be talking out your arse.

            Wouldn’t the people who pay for Auckland Regional Infrastructures be those people living in the Auckland Region which happens to include Auckland?

            BTW, Auckland has been subsidising the rest of the country to the tune of $1 billion per year for years (I’ve linked to it before). Perhaps it’s time some of those subsidies flowed the other way.

      • Andre 3.1.2
        26 October 2017 at 7:45 am

        I’m aware that most of the time, proportionally more fuel taxes, RUC etc gets collected in Auckland than gets spent in Auckland. So it looks like Auckland is subsidising the regions.

        But consider: when I go on a long trip, I’ll usually fill up in Auckland before leaving, and I will generally arrive back with the tank fairly low. My Landrover that I pay RUC on in Auckland generally only gets used for long trips with lots of people and gear outside the Auckland region. Similarly, what proportion of trucking and bus companies are based in Auckland and buy their RUC there, but mostly use them outside Auckland?

      • halfcrown 3.1.3
        26 October 2017 at 7:59 am

        Welcome back Stunned, were you banned or something? as I haven’t seen you since before the election. Looking forward to seeing your opinions.

        • Stunned Mullet 3.1.3.1
          26 October 2017 at 9:00 am

          Thx, must admit the break was very nice. Suspect I’ll post not too much in future once you’ve had a good break from visiting and posting your perspective of the time wasted and views on the tone of the place tends to change.

    • Andre 3.2
      26 October 2017 at 11:00 am

      And now Harold gives us the panic reaction from its readers. Come to think of it, if they make good on their promise to leave, it will certainly ease the housing pressure in Auckland.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936852

  4. Cinny 4
    26 October 2017 at 7:37 am

    It really is the gift that keeps on giving. The outgoing PM, who has never ever been elected by the people to lead our country hands in his resignation today.

    • The decrypter 4.1
      26 October 2017 at 7:50 am

      3rd time lucky will say james,– or something pretty similar.

      • Cinny 4.1.1
        26 October 2017 at 7:57 am

        Speaking of things coming in three’s, I wonder what’s next for national,

        Election loss
        Eminem
        Could it be the Todd Barclay verdict? Or something even bigger?

        • halfcrown 4.1.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 8:10 am

          Talking about National I now know why they run this country into the ground and did nothing for the last nine years. This morning I have heard nothing but knockers winging about Ardern’s policies “how it can’t be done”
          These must be the “experts” that the National government spent millions on advising “how it can’t be done” so National didn’t do anything just sold the country to the lowest bidder and let everybody else pollute the place.

          • Cinny 4.1.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 8:23 am

            It’s going to be incredible to watch our country change and so many lives improve after having such a selfish government for almost a decade.

            The can’t be done ‘experts’ are the ones who don’t see any benefits for themselves, away with selfish people, there is no place for you here anymore.

            • BM 4.1.1.1.1.1
              26 October 2017 at 8:46 am

              You’re going to be disappointed, life’s going to get a lot tougher for many people.

              Cost of living is about to go through the roof.

              • Psycho Milt …
                26 October 2017 at 8:52 am

                Cost of living is about to go through the roof.

                “About to?” Do you maybe believe the working poor in Auckland living in their cars are doing that because they don’t like to be tied down?

                • BM …
                  26 October 2017 at 8:57 am

                  How’s making everyone else poorer going to help?

                  Higher interest rates, crashing dollar, higher unemployment, cancelled FTA’s.

                  Good times ahead.

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    26 October 2017 at 10:55 am

                    This “everyone will be eating grass like North Koreans after a few years of a Labour government” meme gets trotted out every time, and funnily enough people are generally better off under those Labour governments (except for one particular one that really did manage to make people poorer, but that one doesn’t help your case at all).

                  • McFlock …
                    26 October 2017 at 1:08 pm

                    Two of our biggest industries are agriculture and tourism. They like low dollars.

                    The dollar crashing will be a boon for the regions, and that cash will trickle up to the main centres until it’s finally extracted by offshore corporations.

                    Unemployment will plummet.

                    • Stunned Mullet …
                      26 October 2017 at 1:37 pm

                      The dollar crashing will most certainly not be good for the country.

                      Fonterra and other primary producers may get a short term windfall however much of this will remain in their pockets and in the farmers case a large amount will be utilised to pay down debt on over leveraged farms. Tourism has been booming despite our high dollar.

                      For those not reaping the rewards of a low dollar in primary production areas or tourism they can expect increases in their cost of living coupled to increasing interest rates.

                      There is undoubtedly a sweet spot for where the country would be best served in terms of the value of the dollar but talk of a crashing currency being good news is daft.

                      Edit – I have moved a reasonable amount of free cash to alternate currency as I believe there will be a slide in the NZD and have exited a fair proportion of my real estate as well as I’m betting that’ll slide back a bit as well, most people don’t have the luxury of taking a similar action to protect against drops in real estate value or the NZD.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 October 2017 at 2:09 pm

                      well, talk of a crashing currency in general is a bit daft.

                      But the thing is that a sustained lower dollar will not be a “short term” windfall for the rural sector, it will be a sustained windfall for the rural sector.

                      Good to know capital flight is already happening. The less speculative money in the country, the better – it just exacerbates boom and bust cycles, and fucks things up for real businesses.

                    • Stunned Mullet …
                      26 October 2017 at 2:18 pm

                      Disagree – If our rural sector can only compete via being the cheapest in the medium to longer term we are stuffed.

                      As I said, and someone should feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, our tourism sector has been doing very well despite the highish dollar – that must be down to the visitors seeing us as offering something unique or particularly desirable this has to be where we get to with primary produce and adding value to it rather than a race to the bottom.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 October 2017 at 2:33 pm

                      Who said rural can only compete by being the cheapest?

                      But being cheaper while maintaining other advantages brings more money in. Nobody has said rural production or tourism are in existential peril. My sole point is that the extra money coming in to the regions from an anticipated lower dollar will help the entire country, rather than it being all doom and gloom for the folks who don’t know the price of butter.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      26 October 2017 at 2:35 pm

                      Oh do give over – surely you remember when the dollar was worth about 80% of what it is now, and the sky fell on everyone’s heads.

                    • Stunned Mullet …
                      26 October 2017 at 3:03 pm

                      “Oh do give over – surely you remember when the dollar was worth about 80% of what it is now, and the sky fell on everyone’s heads.”

                      Well it certainly won’t effect me very much and Fonterra would certainly be ecstatic but I suspect the inflationary effect on the economy especially via transport and grocery costs would hit some sectors of the community quite hard.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 October 2017 at 3:21 pm

                      I’m sure some sectors of the community are touched by your concern, but that’s not what happened last time we had a low exchange rate.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      26 October 2017 at 6:28 pm

                      @BM

                      We’ve been spending far more than we earn for decades now. Now, the reason why we have a floating dollar is to balance our trade. As we import more our dollar is supposed to decline decreasing the amount we import while increasing the amount we export. The problem is with those high interest rates we’ve had for decades keeping our dollar artificially high and thus allowing us to spend beyond our means (really, I thought you RWNJs were all for spending within our means).

                      That being the case with all that excessive importing our dollar should, by now, actually be worth less than the Chinese Yuan. But, of course, the Chinese Yuan is artificially low so as to encourage exports from China as well as creating work there.

                      So, although many may not like what will happen when our dollar crashes but it is something that needs to happen. Same as the housing bubble needs to burst. If the government does it well it won’t hurt the majority too much – especially considering the boost in employment that will come with it.

                      The first thing that the government could do is make mortgages and business loans available at 0% interest from Kiwibank.

              • Sabine …
                26 October 2017 at 9:46 am

                You are about 6 years to late. Living costs have risen so much that people live in cars and don’t ever buy butter.

              • adam …
                26 October 2017 at 9:57 am

                Rock living under, echo chamber much BM?

                It would seem it was….

              • halfcrown …
                26 October 2017 at 10:50 am

                “Cost of living is about to go through the roof.”

                That has already happened BM I have noticed some items in the supermarkets in the last 6 months rising by 20,30,40% BEFORE the new administration was sworn in. Then we have rates always on the rise as the majority of councils are controlled by right-wing fuckwits who love to preach the Neo Theorem “everybody has to stand on their own two feet” but have great enthusiasm for spending ratepayers money on right-wing wish lists and adventures like Stadiums, Velodromes, Art Museums.

                • BM …
                  26 October 2017 at 11:52 am

                  It’s going to get a lot worse, old fella.

                  Apparently, the water tax that’s been canned to appease Peters, from what I’ve read is now going to be shifted onto councils.

                  Rates up again.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  26 October 2017 at 2:31 pm

                  There’s a reason Ardern and Clark chose the Arts portfolio for themselves. “Because it’s a right wing adventure” isn’t it. Have another guess.

              • Cinny …
                26 October 2017 at 11:10 am

                Cost of living for whom BM? For you?

                I know it won’t for me, it’s spring, vege’s are cranking in the garden, free food, fantastic, mega crop of raspberries by the looks of it.
                Summer is coming free entertainment is a 5min bike ride to the beach.

                Our local Dr only costs enrolled patients $18 per visit.

                Fuel is up to ten cents cheaper at NPD’s self service pumps at the start of town.

                I just got a pay rise

                The awesome old boy from next door is to old to use his mint as bench saw and wants to sell it, as long as it goes to a good home and is used loved and appreciated, darn sight cheaper and better quality than one would find in a store, thanks neighbour.

                Girls and I have been invited for a drink with our new Minister of Agriculture tomorrow night.

                Life is good for us, and the hope that this change of government brings is not going to fade anytime soon.

                • BM …
                  26 October 2017 at 11:47 am

                  If you’re all right that’s all that matters does it Cinny?

                  How very socialist of you. 🙄

                  I’ll make a prediction

                  Dollar around .50 within a year and interest rates somewhere above10% within 18 months.

                  Have a think about that and the flow on effects.

                  • Cinny …
                    26 October 2017 at 12:05 pm

                    See that’s where you are so very wrong BM

                    My vege garden feeds the whole neighbourhood, stop by my house once harvest comes to see a variety of FREE FRESH VEGETABLES at the gate. Why, because community is important so I always grow more than we need.

                    My neighbours are awesome, they get free food from my garden too, because they are elderly and good neighbours look out for each other, in fact I waterblasted my neighbours fence yesterday, not because he asked me, but because it looked like it needed it, his back is stuffed, my back is all good. That’s what’s been a good neighbour is, helping others out. He was thrilled. And actually I’m doing some sewing mending for a little old lady over the back fence, no charge, crikey if she were able she would do it, but her eyes are not as good as they used to be. No gain in it for me, her smile is enough to brighten my day.

                    Doing volunteer work again at the school tomorrow, teaching kids creative skills in the morning and in the afternoon teaching them how to grow food in the school vege garden, yes I’ve supplied them with plants as well, why? Because kids are important and so is learning to grow food, schools are unfunded and I don’t mind sharing my skills with others one little bit. And they are a great bunch of kids down there.

                    Not too worried about the interest rates at all, we weren’t silly enough to mortage ourselves up to the eyeballs. But that’s beside the point. If more people helped out others we will improve our communities, be the change you wish to see and all that.

                    It’s not about what people can get, it’s about how you make people feel.

                    And one more thing, I’ve a pet hate for selfish people, put number one first and all that, no thanks. JS

                    • marty mars …
                      26 October 2017 at 12:35 pm

                      + 1 thanks for being part of, and helping create, a community Cinny. At this time our community over the hill is supporting me and my family – someone gave my wife a petrol voucher today and said they appreciated everything we do for the community. I couldn’t think of a better or bigger compliment – made me feel proud and humble at the same time. What we give is so much more important than what we get and it is up to us to work to create the community we want to be part of. Selfish people never understand that.

                    • mary_a …
                      26 October 2017 at 2:01 pm

                      @ Cinny … you are a gem. The face of NZ’s future I hope with our change of government.

                      What you are doing for your community is the NZ I remember as a youngster many years ago. We all pitched in to help each other and wouldn’t see our neighbours wanting for anything. It was good. It was was what NZ was all about and I look forward to it being the same again.

                    • weka …
                      26 October 2017 at 3:01 pm

                      “What we give is so much more important than what we get”

                      I think this is a value that many in NZ fail to understand. Certainly in BM’s ‘it’s the value of the dollar that’s important’ world.

                  • bwaghorn …
                    26 October 2017 at 12:15 pm

                    At .50 for the $ farming will boom

                    • BM …
                      26 October 2017 at 5:42 pm

                      Dairying is a dirty word with this government, it’s not like we can raise production or create more farms and cash in.

                      If anything I’d expect pressure to come onto farmers to cut herds or retire farmland, remember it’s all about the environment now, dairy doesn’t fit into this equation.

                    • McFlock …
                      26 October 2017 at 6:04 pm

                      Dairy isn’t the only rural export, and the point with the low exchange rate is that we’d already be cashing in without changing production.

                      You looked at incomes potentially jumping, and then complained that you couldn’t make them jump any higher by increasing production. Cheerful bugger, aintcha.

                  • Andre …
                    26 October 2017 at 12:22 pm

                    If interest rates above 10% happen, it will be because the economy has taken off like a rocket and the Reserve Bank is desperately trying to slow the activity down.

                  • SpaceMonkey …
                    26 October 2017 at 4:24 pm

                    Interest rates at 10%? You’re dreaming… All the global pressure on interest rates is downward and despite the printing of billions of dollars worldwide by central banks to reverse that, it has had no effects… which highlights further the strength of that downward pressure.

                    • BM …
                      26 October 2017 at 5:51 pm

                      What happens here will be localized, all the change and uncertainty will be driven by government policy

                      If the property market starts to really tank which is highly likely with what Labour/NZ First is proposing then I’d expect to see rates jump.

                      A bit like insurance companies after the earthquakes gotta recoup those losses.

              • JC …
                26 October 2017 at 8:42 pm

                “No brain at all, some of them [people], only grey fluff that’s blown into their heads by mistake, and they don’t Think.”

                ~ (Eeyore), A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

            • marty mars 4.1.1.1.1.2
              26 October 2017 at 8:52 am

              Yes Cinny – already hope is there and everyday new good things happen. It is awesome to see what changing the government has already done and they haven’t even started yet. The only better thing is the self absorbed gnat lovers like bm bleating about nothing and making dildo Joyce, the failure, seem like a brainbox. Good times to be alive ☺

        • cleangreen 4.1.1.2
          26 October 2017 at 2:26 pm

          Cinny coulld be “Panama papers part two”?

          Revenge for killing of a Jouralist?

      • james 4.1.2
        26 October 2017 at 5:25 pm

        Gee Decrypter you really are besotted with me ain’t you.

        • The decrypter 4.1.2.1
          26 October 2017 at 8:47 pm

          No james, just wonder if thing are ok in your neck of the woods? hope they are. Too be honest, politically the last few years have been pretty miserable for me so know the feeling–I assume.

    • Patricia Bremner 4.2
      26 October 2017 at 12:03 pm

      4. I thought that too about Billshit, Cinny.

      Some of the things happening to National have made me realise I have become a bit vindictive over the 9 years.

      I am unashamed in my enjoyment of their poor choices and attitudes and the resulting outcomes.

      I am awaiting the unraveling of nasty policies, and will greet each with glee.

      As the perfidy of Joyce English Key et al is revealed, I say yes!!. Bring it on!!!!

      • Cinny 4.2.1
        26 October 2017 at 12:17 pm

        So hearing you on that Patricia, trying hard to be a grown up, while very much enjoying the bullies world falling apart, karma big time.

        Meanwhile Talleys, our largest employer in Motueka will be giving the majority of their workers a payrise soon and life just got so much better for those on minimum wage and all their families.
        Our town seems to be glowing with smiling faces as people learn more and more about the improvements which will happen because of our new Government. It’s so awesome.

        • cleangreen 4.2.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 2:32 pm

          Nice to hear Cinny,

          We in Napier are waiting for our rail to be fixed since Labour/NZF/Greenspromised us they would reopenthe rail serice as we like nelson port are contiually suffering from thusands of logging trucks comming through our town too all night and day now we have 2400 trucks passing our HB Expressway every day now and causing us all hell as nobody can get any sleep.

          Rail would taske at least half these bloody trucks off the roads.

          • Cinny 4.2.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 5:22 pm

            Holy moley that’s a heap of trucks, crikey. That’s fantastic to hear how rail will improve things up there, good stuff, the locals will be thrilled about the change of government.

  5. Philg 5
    26 October 2017 at 8:36 am

    And RNZ need to clean out their old contacts list and start afresh too. The Motueka air is so fresh today…. aaahhh…

  6. Carolyn_Nth 6
    26 October 2017 at 9:04 am

    There’s lots for left wingers to like about the incoming Lab-NZF-GP government, as outlined by David Slack.

    However, the relationship between Labour and the GP in relation to ministerial roles, give me pause.

    I have long wanted a new Green Left, and thought that a blend of Labour and Green party would be the way forward.

    However, it looks to me the rollercoaster of an election has successfully done what the NACToids have been trying to do for a while: split off the economic justice parts of the Green Party platform from the environmental and gender-policy elements of the GP.

    Ardern was quick to kick Turei, and her anti-poverty, pro-beneficiary campaign to the kerb. Now Ardern is staking her claim as the champion fighting child poverty. The later, in itself, is a very good thing for a PM to do.

    However, for me, it will all be about how it is done. My praise will be for the positive gains to wind back poverty, and restructure social welfare (and the GP did make a gain in their coalition deal over this). My concern is that this may be de-radicalising the GP, and moving it more to the centre. And with that, the NZ left will have lost a vital political component.

    I will wait to see how much influence the GP has over social and economic justice issues.

    • BM 6.1
      26 October 2017 at 9:11 am

      Greens have been absorbed into Labour, there won’t be any need to vote Green next election

      Just like what National did to Act, Labour did to the Greens, on a positive note, at least the Greens made it into parliament once.

      • marty mars 6.1.1
        26 October 2017 at 9:19 am

        Your lines just come across as silly now.

      • Carolyn_Nth 6.1.2
        26 October 2017 at 9:22 am

        For me, it all depends on how the Greens perform in government, and on their membership as well.

        The Green political movement internationally is strong, with its planks of ecological justice, social justice and grass roots democracy. That’s what the GP membership signed up to. It’s not going anywhere in a hurry.

        But let’s also not forget that people like Sue Bradford are talking of setting up a new left wing party to campaign in the 2020 election.

        It is also a very good thing that the Labour Party have owned environmental issues. Labour have also agreed (as part of the deal with the GP) to reforming social welfare, and stuff to do with housing and countering energy poverty. Labour is strong on worker rights and employment relations, but they have dragged the chain on welfare and those precariously employed.

      • ianmac 6.1.3
        26 October 2017 at 9:27 am

        Matthew writes, “National has always been an informal coalition of urban right-wing liberals, right-wing conservatives, and a significant rural support base of many ideological flavours,…”
        Maybe now would be time for National to split into its minor parties. Act would blossom. Rural Party would gather 3-4%. Pity National blocked the lowering of the Threshold otherwise the parts of National would have a chance to make a coalition.

        • BM 6.1.3.1
          26 October 2017 at 9:34 am

          I could definitely see a rural/conservative party starting up within the next few years.

          National could do a deal in one of the rural seats if they started polling around 5% if that happened NZ First’s days would be well and truly numbered.

          • ianmac 6.1.3.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 9:39 am

            NZF has much more support outside the rural seats, though I believe that in most rural seats National votes declined where NZF votes went up. (My recollection anyway.)

          • marty mars 6.1.3.1.2
            26 October 2017 at 9:46 am

            Yep the gnats are finished as a political force. Billshitter loses twice, Joyce is the village idiot and the most unplesant cast of next in lines since the Klingons make that a surety.

            Perhaps a rural party could work to hover up all the sad and disillusioned gnatites – good call bm.

          • cleangreen 6.1.3.1.3
            26 October 2017 at 8:40 pm

            BM = BULL MASTER

      • AB 6.1.4
        26 October 2017 at 10:58 am

        “There won’t be any need to vote Green…”
        With the current positioning of Overton’s window, there aren’t many sane people to the right of National, whereas there are plenty to the left of Labour. On these settings the Greens will likely be around for some time. If the evidence for climate breakdown becomes experiential rather than a bunch of scientific measurements, that will also strengthen the Greens’ hand.

      • Stuart Munro 6.1.5
        26 October 2017 at 11:05 am

        Greens have ministers now – and without tainting their brand. It’s the Gnat support that’ll be collapsing as all their bullshit is shown up like a certain ‘fairly legal’ ripoff.

      • infused 6.1.6
        26 October 2017 at 11:59 am

        The Greens are hardly Green anymore. It’s a lefter Labour party, so yeah. I agree.

      • Patricia Bremner 6.1.7
        26 October 2017 at 12:18 pm

        BM, 6.1 The Greens can call Labour to account, as they are in a role where that can happen.

        To pretend they are Labour’s clingon is a stretch.

        Jacinda will acknowledge gains made by her support parties as, unlike National, she will want them strong for 2020 and beyond.

        Today our new Government is sworn in, after a wonderful week.

        They have already shown clear Leadership and direction, and won praise from Audrey no less.

        Even Hosk has said there is no need to get hysterical, (talking to himself LOL)

        So BM, you will have to do better than that to divide and conquer.

    • marty mars 6.2
      26 October 2017 at 9:27 am

      To have the Pm take the roleshows the importance of it and is a good thing imo. Sure results count and having it resting there is the best chance of good results because the scrutiny in on.

      I think Metiria has the gumption to accept resonsibility for her own actions and I believe she has – i don’t buy the line she was sacrificed or her concerns kicked to the curb. In fact I’d be surprised if she didn’t get exactly what she wanted in some ways – just need to see her early days – imo she is an activist and being out of the house gives her more freedom, more mana to influence and make positive changes for those that need the most support.

      • ianmac 6.2.1
        26 October 2017 at 9:29 am

        Maybe Metiria will be offered a significant role in any committee or action group.

        • marty mars 6.2.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 9:31 am

          She will have significant roles I think. And her influence will be very impactful, even more than when she was in the house.

          • Carolyn_Nth 6.2.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 9:33 am

            I agree on that, mm and ianmac.

          • Stuart Munro 6.2.1.1.2
            26 October 2017 at 11:06 am

            Social services ombudsman would be good.

          • Carolyn_Nth 6.2.1.1.3
            26 October 2017 at 5:41 pm

            Unfortunately, I do think it will need to be pressure from outside government that will be needed for significant reform.

            Yes, it sets a priority of reducing poverty by having the PM take a strong role in it.

            However, Labour and Ardern, in recent years, have argued that the key to eliminating poverty is raising wages. There’s an element of the morally uplifting role of work – and that works better for middle classes in jobs they can get some satisfaction from. For lower paid manual workers, not so much.

            In recent years Labour has been weak on challenging the negative image of beneficiaries. And the Greens, with Turei in the lead, were the party that strongly countered that.

            Now, their role in poverty reduction, and in restructuring social welfare, has been somewhat marginalised by not having any ministerial responsibility for it. They have something included in their coalition agreement about reforming welfare, but little responsibility for it.

            It’s a little concerning that, so far, it seems Ardern’s minister for social development, Carmel Sepuloni, is still in charge of the “Social Investment Agency”. I like Sepuloni, and hope she will be a strong advocate for beneficiaries. This Social Investment Agency is to be reviewed, so I hope that it is dismantled.

            Perhaps some of the Pacific and Maori MPs will help champion the cause of beneficiaries?

        • Patricia Bremner 6.2.1.2
          26 October 2017 at 12:23 pm

          That occurred to me as well Marty. If Willie can be forgiven and bought into the fold so convincingly, … surely??

      • Carolyn_Nth 6.2.2
        26 October 2017 at 9:31 am

        Well, I think we are never going to agree on the Turei issue.

        But for me that, plus Ardern’s initial comments about Peters when she became leader, it signalled early on, that Team Ardern would always be more positive about NZF than the GP.

        I am pleased about the general direction for change taken by the Ardern government. But I have my concerns about their centrism, and about how committed they are to truly reforming social security. It’s something I will be watching.

        • marty mars 6.2.2.1
          26 October 2017 at 9:38 am

          Fair enough I seem to remember you saying you were burnt by Blair and cool Britannia. I am less wary and have a bit more trust in Jacinda I spose and I hope that is justified. After supporting the MP, Mana Movement and Hone I’ve seen plenty of dreams smashed though ☺

          • Carolyn_Nth 6.2.2.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 9:42 am

            Yes. I’ve been disappointed in the past – by the UK Labour, but also, ultimately, by Clark’s Labour. They stick to a fairly centrist line, and their prime reference point is the middle classes. I see that also in Ardern.

            We need more political leaders from the working and precarious classes. There are some in the new intake of Labour, and in the likes of Carmel Sepuloni, as well as with Marama Davidson.

            But, so far, they have limited power and influence in their parties, while the middle class bureaucrats hold sway.

      • Karen 6.2.3
        26 October 2017 at 11:03 am

        +1 Marty.
        Taking on responsibility for reducing child poverty is a very brave thing of Jacinda to do. It leaves her vulnerable to attack if is progress is slow, which says to me that she is determined to act. To suggest that she has somehow jumped on the Greens policy is a denial of her whole parliamentary career – she has been talking about reducing child poverty from the time she became an MP.

        Also incorrect to suggest that the Greens have been sidelined and would have no influence on anything outside the environment . James Shaw is Associate Finance Minister and a review of WINZ is one of the items in their agreement with Labour. I heard Carmel Sepuloni on Checkpoint last night saying that this was a priority.

        • marty mars 6.2.3.1
          26 October 2017 at 11:12 am

          tautoko Karen

        • Patricia Bremner 6.2.3.2
          26 October 2017 at 12:45 pm

          Yes, and for the first time the Greens are in government, and do have budgets and targets. It is brilliant.

          Coalition means compromise to a degree to get agreement. Being rigid doesn’t work.

          I come from a family of activists and I’m proud to acknowledge my Uncle William Lawrence, one of the longest serving members of the NZ communist party.

          Uncle Bill used to write to the Waihi Leader, outlining the ills of the world and the government of the day. His letters were always published.

          He was a brilliant mind, and would have loved a forum like this. He died 8 years ago at 98, still talking politics.

          He used to say people should live in harmony with the land. He belonged to a walkers club until he was 90, when his sight failed.

          We need to like and respect each other for our special qualities. Always look for the best in each other and above all be kind.

          I am finding that hard with National, but then I think many have been deluded by the system, and a different way may change some, and bring them over.

        • weka 6.2.3.3
          26 October 2017 at 3:09 pm

          I agree that it’s good for Ardern to pick up child poverty and that the Greens will have good influence on aspects of social justice.

          But the difference between Labour and the Greens is that the Greens moved out of the deserving poor position and stated that all beneficiaries deserve quality of life. They then presented policy around that. We have yet to see if Labour will move on that too (haven’t seen it yet, and NZF is probably a factor) and to what extent they will enable the Greens to make real changes on welfare.

          If the welfare debate shifts back to being predominantly focussed on child poverty we will have lost ground again.

        • Tracey 6.2.3.4
          26 October 2017 at 4:04 pm

          Agree on everything you wrote. People like BM judge Green and its supporters by his own standards. He cannot understand a party that sees its goal as change not power at any cost

      • weka 6.2.4
        26 October 2017 at 3:06 pm

        Labour appear to have no intention of raising benefits, and they haven’t really moved from their position that beneficiaries are a different class than other NZers. Yes, the Greens will have influence in sorting out WINZ, but I’m not sure that they will be allowed to go deep enough. When Labour shifts out of its deserving poor and people need to be incentivised to work (never mind those that can’t) position, I think we will see true change.

        (the WINZ change in itself will be hugely beneficial but let’s not pretend that it’s going far enough).

  7. repateet 7
    26 October 2017 at 9:25 am

    Yesterday someone sent me a link with something I think is dramatically illustrative.

    I seldom have newstalkzb on. The link is from zb last Saturday morning with one of their erudite, perceptive commentators. It has the inflections and stresses to add to the gravitas.

    An early part: “I don’t know about you but this whole Winston thing it, it did my head in. I mean I like old people my parents are about his age and I like them but he’s giving old people a bad name. The modern world moves at a slightly faster pace and I know that he was tasked with choosing a government not uploading a snapchat story, but still, does it need to take that long for the love of God? The drawn out painful charade lasted longer than a bad round of bingo at a rest home.”

    And it went on.

    Start at 9:45
    http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/ZB/auckland/2017.10.21-09.00.00-D.mp3

    Apparently it is the wife of Mike Hosking.

    • ianmac 7.1
      26 October 2017 at 9:35 am

      Weird but not surprising for the Hoskings. (What role models for his kids!)
      The selection process was incredibly quick compared to other MMP countries. Well done Lab/NZF/Greens. Sad for National that the National Board forbade National from making concessions and instead hang out for a Government collapse, like vultures really.

      • repateet 7.1.1
        26 October 2017 at 9:41 am

        As an aside the woman’s probably not heard of Winston Churchill or Konrad Adenauer so not have any idea of anyone continuing to be involved in government past the past-it age of 72.

        • Stunned Mullet 7.1.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 9:54 am

          Churchill was undoubtedly the greatest politician of his generation but it’s also true that his best years were behind him at the end of WW2 when he was in his early seventies.

          • garibaldi 7.1.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 10:30 am

            Churchill may have been the man of the moment in WW2 but he was just a pompous pommie twit in WW1, for which we colonialists paid dearly.

            • Stunned Mullet 7.1.1.1.1.1
              26 October 2017 at 11:40 am

              No doubt that Gallipoli was a disaster.

            • ianmac 7.1.1.1.1.2
              26 October 2017 at 11:46 am

              It was Churchill who in about 1914 refused credit for the work done in UK shipyards on Turkish ships. This left no choice but for Turkey to side with Germany. The Germans then mounted a Turkish flag on a German ship, sailed into the Black Sea and shelled Russia. Hence Gallipoli should never have happened.

      • Whispering Kate 7.1.2
        26 October 2017 at 4:19 pm

        If you have ever had the misfortune of reading one of her weekly columns in one of the junk women’s magazines you will realise she leads a life of any other NZ mother raising her kids. As if she is the only mother in the world to have to keep constant vigilence and work hard to keep the kids fed and watered and loved. Beggars belief that the magazine thinks that she is offering anything out of the ordinary. If she could offer some insightful views that would warrant her having a weekly column one could put up with her. She is just plain ordinary, sorry folks, Hoskings didn’t pick a power house special woman at all.

        • Pete 7.1.2.1
          26 October 2017 at 8:17 pm

          And (to be particularly nasty, vindictive and childish) she certainly didn’t get the pick of the crop.

  8. eco maori 8
    26 October 2017 at 9:52 am

    There is a big struggle going on in OUR World at the moment well using that against the older Honorable President we can see someone trying to steal his Mana .
    These people get into power with all good intention’s and there adviser’s leed them down the wrong path It’s the establishment civil servants lobbyist that are to blame for the stuff ups.
    I like seeing all the small country cottage industry on Tv and seeing them flourish with there innovative and industrious approach to seceded what is there well cheese making crafts Organics products and many more.
    I say we use all OUR Marae / settlers cottage to grow our cottage industry’s make them charitable I.E there main goal is to provide good safe products that we could export and to unite the local community and the main goal is to provide employment .
    This will have to have rigorous auditing as some people are to short sighted to see that there actions will damage the integrity of the project . This is in your face to neo libral big business way of thinking which is lump em all in a big city and milk them in my view.
    They could be making chocolate’s Icream’s salami’s all sorts of high value nich food’s .
    making Maori art and wooden furniture what ever there are many products that we could make in these community’s these would have to be tailored to the resources location and environment of OUR Marae / Settlers cottage .
    One could make a blue print of 10 of these units that are designed to have all the vital equipment built in a modular way I.E all the food progressing equipment what ever that is vital to prouduce those products built in containers the could be trucked in and this design is a insurance and motivation for our people to make it work I.E If it is not working in a time frame of fail’s one could lift these containers and move them to another location and give them the opportunity to have employment .
    We could encourage the locals to make donation’s I thought that we could get all members to donate $5 a week to Marae and get them to put some of there own money to get it started as this will be a incentive to make it work may be a third of the money fund-raised I’v been thinking for a while why we don’t use all our people to give our Marae Mana by using this system of everyone whom want’s to help donate’ to our Marae. We need the Regan’s to keep there money in the regan’s .This could provide food to the locals at a cost effective way Me think’s this is a good Idear.
    Man can not let his ego go as they pump anyone I talk to and try to use it against me well It’s just adding to my Mana lucky I’m my own boss because I have the time to post this I’m going to be a bit late DUMP him Kai Pai

  9. marty mars 9
    26 October 2017 at 10:02 am

    Good article and history. Nothing comes from nothing- the poor and disadvantaged didn’t fall out of the sky they are the RESULT of policies and actions, often from generations ago.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/98218154/looking-back-on-the-northern-war-will-help-inform-ngpuhis-future

  10. North 10
    26 October 2017 at 10:43 am

    Would someone amongst us please keep a list of blowhard Hosking’ s daily trash talk. So far we have “……it’s a mess” (on account of JA not being present with cabinet list within 15 minutes of coalition announcement) then few days later ‘…..well, maybe the sky won’t fall in’, and today it’s all ‘yay yay yay James Shaw’ and the communist thing. Crikey Mikey. Get a grip. All of that said you’re allowed to applaud Andrew Little’s decision re Teina Pora. Won’t even require you to acknowledge what a bunch of bastards the National Party were in resisting it in the first place. OK….Mikey Toss King ?

    • Andre 10.1
      26 October 2017 at 10:56 am

      As always the appropriate reply to “would someone…” is you’re welcome to do it yourself. If you thought of it and think it’s a good idea, then you’re probably the best person to do it. Personally the only time the Hosk taints my pixels or sound waves is by accident and it only lasts the time needed for an emergency click on the close window box.

    • Cinny 11.1
      26 October 2017 at 11:17 am

      Thanks Beautiful, tuned in and feeling very very proud 😀

      I must say Ron Mark looks very smart wearing his medals, our new Minister of Defence, fantastic 🙂 Am very happy about that, he’s switched on as.

  12. Ad 12
    26 October 2017 at 10:48 am

    Marcus Aurelius would say to any government leader, but particularly this one:

    “Think of all the years passed by in which you said to yourself “I’ll do it tomorrow,” and how the gods have again and again granted you periods of grace of which you have not availed yourself. It is time to realise that you are a member of the Universe, that you are born of Nature itself, and to know that a limit has been set to your time. Use every moment wisely, to perceive your inner refulgence [radiance or splendour], or ‘twill be gone and nevermore within your reach.”

    • Robert Guyton 12.1
      26 October 2017 at 10:56 am

      Lordy! I’m out of here – my garden calls!

      • left_forward 12.1.1
        26 October 2017 at 1:10 pm

        jealous 🙂

      • weka 12.1.2
        26 October 2017 at 1:27 pm

        Hoping your garden is particularly refulgent today Robert.

        • Robert Guyton 12.1.2.1
          26 October 2017 at 1:57 pm

          as a fire-fly’s bum, weka.
          Today I’ve planted Lady’s Mantle along the mid-strip in the driveway, repaired the hump-backed bridge that leads to the spring in which the giant kokopu swim (there are seven and they are hungry fish – I threw in little chunks of squid left over from last night’s seafood chowder and they frenzy-fed on those as if they were sharks!) re-tied the grape vine that grows over the face of the shed, fed the hens left-over porridge mixed with grain (two are clucky, one sitting on duck eggs, the other her own) potted-up kākābeak seedlings, grafted a rare apple variety (Gloria Mundi), transplanted little lilac saplings to a sunnier spot and generally potted about enjoying the refulgentness of it all 🙂

      • eco Maori/kiwi 12.1.3
        26 October 2017 at 5:54 pm

        I wish lol

    • weka 12.2
      26 October 2017 at 1:28 pm

      Probably good advice for most of us, but seems pertinent to the new govt too.

  13. Philip Ferguson 13
    26 October 2017 at 11:13 am

    One of the Labour-NZF articles of agreement is rather strange. It says this: “Record a Cabinet minute regarding the lack of process followed prior to the National-led government’s sponsorship of UNSC2334.”

    That was a resolution, co-sponsored by NZ at the Security Council just before Xmas last year, criticising Israel for its policy of settlements in the Occupied Territories. The United States abstained and everyone else on the SC voted for it.

    Is Peters particularly pro-Israel?

    Meanwhile, let’s keep in mind that the two-state ‘solution’ is really no solution anyway.

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/is-there-a-two-state-solution-to-israel-palestinian-conflict-2/

  14. Eco maori 14
    26 October 2017 at 11:15 am

    Many thanks to Gull fuel for there support of our new government dropping the price to day I will fill up with Gull all the time now there fuel is fine only prob is I filled up yesterday Ka Pai Gull

  15. r0b 15
    26 October 2017 at 11:17 am

    We have a new PM.

    Excellent.

  16. Ad 16
    26 October 2017 at 11:18 am

    Prime Minister Ardern and Cabinet is sworn in:

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/election-2017/live-ardern-sworn-pm

    OMG I am happy.

    • marty mars 16.1
      26 October 2017 at 11:32 am

      + 1 yep me too… 😊

    • mac1 16.2
      26 October 2017 at 12:10 pm

      Me, too. Found myself banging on the computer table with approval, gratitude and hope. And a special part was to see the smiling new Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, acknowledge her ministers as their names and portfolios were signed off by the G-G.

    • left_forward 16.3
      26 October 2017 at 1:11 pm

      I’m ecstatic !

    • Andre 16.4
      26 October 2017 at 1:17 pm

      Me, I’m just “meh”. Maybe I’ll be less of a grump when they actually start achieving things I believe in.

      • Puckish Rogue 16.4.1
        26 October 2017 at 3:11 pm

        That’s bordering on heresy 🙂

        • Andre 16.4.1.1
          26 October 2017 at 3:23 pm

          I was pretty happy when Jacinda stepped up and showed her substance. I was pretty happy at the announcement of the Lab/NZF/Gr government to be formed. This right now is just the ceremonial bumf before any real action happens.

          • McFlock 16.4.1.1.1
            26 October 2017 at 3:47 pm

            Pretty much – although I thought the leadership change was the seal on a nat election victory. Being wrong can be fun 🙂

  17. Eco maori 17
    26 October 2017 at 11:30 am

    Would be nice if all my clients payed up early a than usually because I’m trying to buy a van .Ka pai

  18. mauī 18
    26 October 2017 at 11:44 am

    It’s great to see thoroughly decent people taking the oath for the country today, people who will look outside their own interests. It could easily have been a bunch of sharks and swindlers in there.

    • The decrypter 18.1
      26 October 2017 at 11:51 am

      Agee Maui, bit close for my liking Anyway now can we have a ceremony showing the outward bound bastards scurrying back to their cess pits ?.

  19. marty mars 19
    26 October 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Funny

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/tv/25-10-2017/mike-hosking-and-the-five-stages-of-ardern-government-grief/

    Worth noting the stages can rearrange and you can repeat them so not sure if he is out the other side yet.

  20. veutoviper 20
    26 October 2017 at 3:34 pm

    And just to cap a wonderful day for Jacinda Ardern (and the new government), Jacinda’s sister Lois, who lives in London with her Columbian husband, gave birth to a son!

    Here is Jacinda announcing it while on the steps of Parliament with Clarke and his sister’s two daughters.

    https://twitter.com/henrycooke/status/923353599333122048

    Jacinda raced off to Spain at the end of June to surprise her sister when she and her partner/husband got married.

    https://www.nowtolove.co.nz/lifestyle/weddings/jacinda-ardern-on-her-sisters-wedding-day-surprise-33666

    (Not usually into Woman’s Day type stuff, but lets have one exception today!!!!)

  21. Herodotus 21
    26 October 2017 at 3:40 pm

    Sad to read that “Pretty legal” has been found to be NOT. There goes my response to being pulled over for speeding 😉

  22. tracey 22
    26 October 2017 at 4:18 pm

    Fascinating article here… helps to explain Key and English’s fixation with averages.

    ” Dalio’s argument focuses on the wide disparities in factors including labor, retirement savings, health care, death rates and education between the top 40% and bottom 60% of the country, and how average statistics fail to capture this increasingly bimodal distribution. ”

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bridgewater-ray-dalio-us-economy-looks-like-1937-recession-principles-book-2017-9?r=US&IR=T

    ” There has been no growth in earned income, and income and wealth gaps have grown and are enormous. Since 1980, median household real incomes have been about flat, and the average household in the top 40% earns four times more than the average household in the bottom 60%. While they’ve experienced some growth recently, real incomes have been flat to down slightly for the average household in the bottom 60% since 1980 (while they have been up for the top 40%). Those in the top 40% now have on average 10 times as much wealth as those in the bottom 60%. That is up from six times as much in 1980. “

  23. greywarshark 23
    26 October 2017 at 5:03 pm

    Chris Trotter on Bowalley Road is putting up some hard-hitting posts.
    Unfriendly Capitalism’s Bodyguard Of “Expert Lies”. is the latest.
    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/unfriendly-capitalisms-bodyguard-of.html

  24. eco Maori/kiwi 24
    26 October 2017 at 6:39 pm

    Ka pai teno pai Congratulations YES fabulous yea to much all good we I’m fucken happy
    Our New Coalition Government will be successful and best wishes to you all have we seen a crowd like that when a new government has been sworn in me thinks not so who’s got the mandate to rule .I think thing are going to change for me shortly.
    If those other idiots stayed in power It would have been a lot harder for me to sort this shit out. Use to listen to Fats Domino a lot when I was a kid Many thanks to him and his family for what he has done for OUR society a great legend .
    Ka Kaha to our league men we no you have the skills and the Mana to win this P.S my new Van won’t be new it will be second hand ECO does not buy new I’m off to see my Moko’s Kia ora

  26. Ed 26
    26 October 2017 at 8:49 pm

    The fable of chicken licken.
    For all those National supporters saying ‘the sky is falling.’

  27. Ed 27
    26 October 2017 at 8:50 pm

    ‘Twyford’s Auckland regional fuel tax slammed by Herald readers.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11936852

    Leave then,

  28. Peter 28
    26 October 2017 at 9:08 pm

    Capitalism is a “blatant failure” when it comes to housing the poor, says Jacinda Ardern.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/10/homelessness-proves-capitalism-is-a-blatant-failure-jacinda-ardern.html

    Mike Hosking “Capitalism has not failed, he says. It is, in fact, the opposite. Capitalism and markets have delivered unprecedented increases in living standards and quality of life across a whole range of aspects that we care about that no other system can match.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11936869

    It seems to me that Ardern is being deliberately misinterpreted by Hosking. She did not criticise capitalism’s ability to raise living standards etc. Rather, she commented on its undisputed inability to meet all socio-economic needs. His simplistic, selective, rants do not deserve the prominence they receive.

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