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Open mike 27/04/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 27th, 2021 - 165 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

165 comments on “Open mike 27/04/2021 ”

  1. Gosman 1

    Marama Davidson is currently criticising herself for not doing her job and reducing the number of people requiring emergency housing. Well she is not so self aware as that but she is bemoaning how so many people are in unsafe emergency housing. Here's some free advice for you Ms Davidson. How about you come up with a plan to fix the situation?

    • Incognito 1.1

      Selective hearing and then selective reporting back here on TS without an appropriate link. One wonders whether you comment here in good faith at all.

      The government was working to "rectify" the situation by creating more transitional housing, that is contracted by the government and provides individual support services, Davidson said.

      She blamed "successive" governments for the housing affordability crisis, but acknowledged there was "not enough currently in the pipeline".

      The previous National administration "gutted" the public housing stock, she said, and the current government was now "really, really stuck because of that massive, rapid increase in affordable housing that we've seen over the past year".

      "And that just means we've got a slow sort of process to try and get the quantity up to what we actually need."


    • David 1.2

      Here is the link Gosman


      Apparently the problem is not in her “direct delegation”. Splitting the health and housing portfolios 600 ways is therefore the perfect excuse to do very little, given the problems are unlikely to fall to anyone’s “direct delegation”

      • Sabine 1.2.1

        Ain't that convenient for the Party that has a majority? Well to be fair, they ran on 'keep moving' not on fixing intergenerational homelessness. That is in the too hard basket, keep moving – even if it is to nowhere is much better.

    • Sabine 1.3

      The women got a job that the Labour government fucked up. Generally i have no use for her. But she is not going to manage to do anything for which a. gets no specified funding from the current majority holding Labour government, b. for which the Labour government would be giving the green light – again, majority holding Labour government, and c. about which the Labour party cares so little about that they put her into that position in the first place.

      So you might want to flog dear Marama, but she is the wrong horse. The horse currently pulling NZ in deep entrenched, multi generational homelessness is this current Labour majority held government and before that it was the Labour coalition government and before that it was John 'Can i pull your ponytail' Keys with his handler Paula' Pigdog' Benefit.

      Find a better person to complain about it, or at least complain about the silence of the Greens about this issue – until now. Not being able to do something is one thing, keeping mum about it is another altogether.

      • Incognito 1.3.1

        Just as well, Davidson did not keep mum about it. Have you got nothing better to do than spewing your negative bile and ranting? Have a Kit Kat, that’ll cheer you up.

        • Sabine

          You should read the whole comment and you would see that while i have not much use for the Green Party i do not fault Marama Davidson for the posioned pill that is homelessness and the losing position that she was put in by the current government.

          And you really should eat better chocolate than that, and that includes snickers. They are not good for you at all. No chocolate, only fillers and palmoil, and such, you know, compound "chocolate'. You know, nice choclate, artisan chocolate made by someone in your local community.

          • Bearded Git

            Sabine-why would you have no time for the only party that takes poverty seriously?

          • Incognito

            I read the whole comment, and all your others. Trust me, it is my job as Moderator.

            You wrote:

            Generally i have no use for her.

            Coming from you I guess that’s faint praise and an unfortunate choice of words; obviously, Davidson is not an object that may or may not be of use to you.

            I personally don’t need chocolate, artisan or with fillers and palm oil, because I run on coffee. Luckily, NZ has come a long way making a decent coffee.

      • Morrissey 1.3.2

        Generally i have no use for her.

        !!!??!? Why not? If ever there was a decent and admirable member of parliament, it's Marama Davidson. What leads you to claim you "have no use for her"?

        • Ad

          Greens in Parliament are in the worst of all worlds; not in Cabinet, not opposition, no charisma to be noticed, such policy initiatives as they have quickly taken over, and about as close to power as Pluto.

          They might want to take some notes from the German Greens who appear to be on a sweet trajectory into Ministerial positions.

          • Treetop

            My beef with the Green Party is that they want to be too ambitious to quickly. E.g they want entire benefit reform which the country cannot afford and they have a benefit specialist Menendez who could make a statement that TAS is a failure due to rent rises consuming the limit/cap. Or to increase the limit on TAS for rent.

            Benefits are survival money. My concern is a roof above people's head, preferably not a motel roof.

            Not capping TAS or replacing it with uncapped SB and comparing this to the cost of motel accommodation is what I want the answer to. It is not just about the cost of living in a motel, the negative social aspects are magnified.

          • Bearded Git

            Ummm they just won Auckland Central with no charisma?…..Shaw has been one of the best performing MP's over the last few years, he thinks and speaks calmly rather than shooting his mouth off and and blustering like others. Genter is excellent on transport.

            Plenty of talent among the other Green MP's.

            • Sabine

              Yeah, and before that Auckland Central was won by Nikki Kaye National and constantly lost by Jacinda Ardern Labour until she was gifted Mt. Albert.

              So really winning an Electorate in NZ really means nothing much, consider that the woman who never won this particular electorate is now PM.

            • RedBaronCV

              They won Auckland central with split votes from labour supporters . Party vote Labour candidate Green. Wellington and Dunedin are rather more reliable for the Greens. Lots of party votes there.

            • Treetop

              The priority for talent from the Green Party I want to see is to fix homelessness, rising rents and the cost of housing for first home buyers. National and Act need to find some talent as well.

              Expecting the government to cop the last 20 years of housing mismanagement is unfair.

              • Sabine

                no it is not.

                In the last 20 years we had





                the are part and parcel of what got us here in the first place.

                • Treetop

                  Shipley market rents for state homes. Key selling off state homes and no brightline test.

                  Clark reversing market rents in state homes. Ardern a coalition with Peters, a pandemic and the other elephant in the room the health system.

                  Brightline test and tax changes will help but needed to have been done sooner. Less immigrants into the country will also help housing to stabilise. More homes need to be built and go back to the state housing system of placing people in state homes and managing the tenants. MSD is income related and not a housing provider. State homes used to have interim homes.

                  Personally I feel that what happened with fracturing of DHBs has happened to state housing. Just the cost to run each DHB is wasted money. So is public, emergency, transitional housing as fractured due to waiting for a home.

                  As well bring back overnight shelters until homes are built.

                  • Sabine

                    But people in Kainga Oranga do pay 'market rent'. Just not all of it. The pay what they can and Winz pays the rest even now.

                    See here in regards to Rotorua from a OIA request 2020.


                    And aren't we all lucky now that Labour is in majority and has no one else to blame for their own fuck ups now? Cause that 'they had to content with NZ FIrst is getting tiresome, without NZfirst they would be sitting on the backbenches rendering their shirts in impotence or in the case of some leave politics altogether to make more money at some dumb think tank. Also the pandemic turned 1, not nearly 4 years old, and as we small business people were told so many times, did they not know to prepare for a pandemic? surely they should have known better, what with Sars 2003 outbreak which happened under Helen Clark. Heck, i am coming to think that they did not prepare for a win nor a pandemic. They are there because Winston Peters went into a coalition with them and the rest is history.

                    • Treetop

                      Market rent in public housing is subsidised, but only 25% of income is paid in rent.

                      Removing special benefit was under Clark 1 April 2006.

          • Incognito

            They might want to take some notes from the German Greens who appear to be on a sweet trajectory into Ministerial positions.

            That is a brilliant suggestion, ceteris paribus.

        • Sabine

          Individually and personally as people i agree with you. But as the Green Party – no use. When the Green Party grows up and realises that it does NOT need to be the handmaid to any ruling party, but could very well govern with gusto from the opposition bench and maybe even achieve more as a principled opposition bench party, i might consider them again. As for now, i have no use for the Green Party as a Party that I would vote for. I keep it with the socialists, they are more to my liking.

          As to what i believe is that Labour has set up Marama Davidson as a scapegoat, and considering the funding she gets you will find it very hard to convince me to the contrary. I can see a few people be very happy about M.D. fail, so to speak, despite the fact that she was never set up to win.

      • Tiger Mountain 1.3.3

        MPs Sue Bradford (ex Auckland Peoples Centre, and Te Roupu) and Marama Davidson have been the exception for NZ MPs in recent decades, most of whom have little hands on experience with what people seeking assistance from MSD/WINZ have to endure. Riccardo is new so give him a few more months perhaps, but he was certainly active with AAAP–Auckland Action Against Poverty. AAAP runs clinics at WINZ branches for which people que in the dark, knowing that with an experienced advocate on their side, case managers will actually offer them what they are bloody entitled to in the legislation rather than branch “policy”. Marama has been to these clinics and offered her support.

        Most MPs since the 80s have been of middle class or above socio economic status, without a clue of the WINZ sadism unemployed, disabled, and long term sick get from the state. So I am a Marama supporter.

        • Treetop

          20 years ago for 3 years 15 hours a week I was a benefit rights (BR) advocate. I knew how to fill out a special benefit form and accompany the client to the MSD office and get their entitlement. This was under 9 years of a National government.

          I knew a person was better off when an advocate accompanied them. There are to few benefit rights services in the country. Every area requires one like a community law office.

          No hospital pass to Menendez from Treetop.

          Who is advising MSD on emergency accommodation and capping TAS for rent?

          • Tiger Mountain

            You need to be a special kind of person to be a beneficiary advocate–it is coming at you from all sides!

            • Treetop

              To be determined, non judgemental, work alongside the client, know the legislation, be honest and deliver results and to think outside the box.

              [fixed typo in user name]

        • Treetop

          Think I need to watch the numbering to reply. In saying this I can have a strong view to a previous comment which I did not make.

        • Sabine

          I would vote for Sue Bradford as PM any day of the week. And if only to see some heads explode. But the work that she does in beneficiary advocacy is phenomenal and so so badly needed.

        • Bearded Git

          Metiria Turei was excellent and would still be in parliament but for the rat pack.

          • Sabine

            she was the last Green Person i voted for, as i wrote her in as candidate for PM sadly we got whom we have now.

          • Treetop

            I gave Turei a thought when I first looked at this thread. It has gone full circle for the Green Party re welfare short fall which has an extreme impact e.g. living in motels and transitional housing.

            More Bradford's are needed on the front line of defence against poverty.

          • Tiger Mountain

            Fair point Git it was shameful the way so many turned on her for pointing out the obvious. Thousands of beneficiaries are now debtors because benefits are way too low.

            Tactically Metiria made a mistake of outing herself via her own case then. Now that we have two tier benefits (COVID & non COVID), and a number of middle class people have encountered the sadism of MSD/WINZ I think she might get a different reaction.

            • Sabine

              In twenty odd years time when someone will look at rates of absue, sexual violence etc of minors/women/others suffered in tax payers funded emergency housing we should keep in mind that these people were forced to forgo 25% of their below the poverty line benefits for the pleasure of being not 'housed' but warehoused out of sight out of mind by simply another callous government.

            • greywarshark

              Thanks for that thoughtful and perceptive comment Tiger Mountain.

            • greywarshark

              Tiger Mountain – I don't know if women have pointed out how Metiria was following the feminist idea, that a solo woman with a family could get good education and/or training for a well-paid job, and earn sufficient money to bring up her family and work. It would always be difficult to do two jobs, but the idea was that a woman would be able to choose being a one-parent family and give the children a good home, education upbringing enough to match those of a couple, if she wanted to and worked hard. But she would need help particularly as the beginning, affording the education and managing her home and child responsibilities while doing so.

              By keeping solo and single parents short of money, preventing them from achieving the required educational and parental standards, governments have thrown out the real upward mobility for all women that most feminists expected.

              Also married women have had their pay gradually reduced in real terms. Originally the idea of women having workplace experience and having both parents working, was so that they could boost the man's basic wage, and the pair's finances could rise more quickly, so they could save to buy a house. Another stake in the heart that government has dealt to women.

            • Bearded Git

              Agreed Tiger.

    • Morrissey 1.4

      Well she is not so self aware as that…

      Marama Davidson is one of the few people in parliament with real integrity and courage—in 2016 she actually went on the protest ship Zaytouna-Oliva, along with Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan and many other activists, that broke the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza. She is a committed supporter of human rights campaigns both in Aotearoa and overseas.

      For someone like you to dismiss her like that—"not so self aware" indeed!—is beyond ironic.

    • weka 1.5

      Lol, this is the Greens doing their job: raising awareness of the problems including the ones they don’t have the power to fix. They’re not even properly part of government, this is on Labour not the Greens. You’re not so stupid as to not understand how parliament and government works, so spare us the rw taking points and give us some actual rw political analysis.

      • Gosman 1.5.1

        Umm… She is the Minister of Homelessness. If she doesn't have the power to fix this issue she should be demanding she be given it or she should resign.

        • Sabine

          She is the Associate Minister of Homelessness….the sad fact that we actually have a ministry of that name seems to escape you. Thus she falls under the portfolio of Megan Woods (who surely at some stage will do something about the homelessnessness this country experiences, or well not. Its hard work. )


          Hon Dr Megan Woods

          Minister of Housing

          Hon Poto Williams

          Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing)

          Hon Peeni Henare

          Associate Minister of Housing (Māori Housing)

          Hon Marama Davidson

          Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness)

          But i agree with you: She should have lobbed that poisioned chalice back into J.A. open arms and said' Thanks dear, but no dear, this drink is all yours and that of your majority.

          But dear Jacinda knows that on homelessness the Labour Party are as clueless, oblivious, and uninteressted and a guilty as was National under John Key, Helen Clark, Jenny Shipley and everyone before them since at least the late 80.s.

          So Marama got the associate ministry and the Greens can pretend that they are again 'part of government' decision making. – or not depending of whom you ask.

          But yeah, she got 4 million – 4 fucking million for something while we spend a million alone on emergency housing pretty much ever night. Which is not transitional housing, which is not public housing, which is not housing.


          Associate Housing Minister Marama Davidson today announced funding support for new initiatives that will prevent and reduce homelessness in Whangarei, Auckland, Napier/Hastings, Rotorua and the Hutt Valley.

          “Over $4 million has been allocated to projects that address homelessness in local communities,” Marama Davidson said.

          “This is the first round of funding from the Government’s $16.6 million Local Innovation and Partnership Fund, which is a key part of our Homelessness Action Plan.

          But but 16.6 Million local innovation and partnership fund, now that is as orwellian as it gets. Innovation and partnership fund to fix what? I don't think they know.

          Fuck the poor and homeless in this country are so screwed. Intergenerational Poverty, Homelessness and th government has 16.6 million local innovation and partnership fund, and the hapless associate Minister of Homelessness MUST cheer this lest she gets nothing from dear Grant Robertson. This fucking government.

          • Treetop

            The 4 mil spent on homelessness projects I would have put that into benefit rights services (BRS) establishing new ones. Even if just for emergency housing BRS. I do think Davidson
            is a sincere person.

            • Sabine

              I never said she is not sincere, i said she was and is set up to fail. That is not quite the same.

              • RedBaronCV

                Yes she was set up to fail. No money and no clout. Was she supposed to use the $4mill to persuade Maori entities to put up housing to relieve the state?

                Meanwhile, Labour keep letting new people into the country. We've now had almost 18 months to train teachers, nurses and a lot of other occupations. Would it be so bad if we let the population decline a bit? Free's up housing for one.

              • Treetop

                I agree on the set up to fail.

            • Sabine


        • weka

          So if she stamps her foot enough Labour will give her more power?

          /end massive eye roll

          • Incognito

            Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best.

            – Otto von Bismarck

            With some commenters here, nothing is possible yet everything is possible, nothing is attainable yet all is attainable, instantly, of course, and nothing is ever good enough. They are walking sacks of cells full of negativity and contradiction and mental wastelands where creativity and originality have died long ago in the winds of howling despair.

    • Chris 1.7

      The whole thing started when Key's government was in charge. They started shoving people into motels to save the embarassment of families sleeping in cars. Then complaints that motels were costing up to $2k a week, even though they were loans, caused the government to invent tranistional housing which is the government commandeering any hostel-style dwelling regardless of the condition, old motel units, RSE worker accommodation, whatever it can find. The government didn't want to run them so they statrted contracting incompetent community groups to do it. The whole mess has been the result of one knee-jerk reaction to another. No planning, just a series of silly decisions all aimed at staving off bad publicity.

  2. Treetop 2

    MSD can resurrect the special benefit (SB) to enable many people to stay in a rental. Temporary additional support (TAS) has proven to be insufficient to enable people to afford the rent as it is capped. So the accommodation supplement (AS) is insufficient, plus TAS. Think old special benefit is not capped. Possibly $100 – $200 SB would be required per week. I would give AS plus SB. Some people still recieve the old SB not sure why.

    Menendez could do special benefit costings due to his skills from working as a benefit rights advocate.

    Sabine's suggestion to pay the entire weeks rent I would consider this short term.

    Sorry for my reiterating as I feel the above is required immediately.

    • Chris 2.1

      It was interesting how in the 1990s the numbers of people receiving a special benefit were slashed. The Labour opposition declared they'd make sure people who were entitled to the special benefit received it, which from 1999 they did a reasonable job of. Then they decided it cost too much so abolished it, replacing it with the temporary additional support. That's Labour for you.

  3. Adrian Thornton 3

    Here is a quite amazing BBC interview where Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Environmental Advisor to the UN shuts down their anti China rhetoric in real time….

    "Professor Jeffrey Sachs, a current serving Environmental Advisor to the UN, said that the broadcaster's framing of the debate was "not what [he had] expected" when he was asked to come on the show.

    The climate change expert stated that he had initially been asked to discuss the environment, but claimed that the BBC's choice to instead debate China's human rights abuses – whilst completely ignoring human rights abuses of the West – was "absolutely bizarre".

    Prior to the interview, the BBC had aired a segment (which was seen by Mr Sachs) detailing how the US's relationship with China was becoming strained due to the Asian nation's record on human rights.

    The BBC segment then posed the question about whether the USA could really continue to work with China on climate change given their record on human rights."

    Jefferey Sachs comes on @ 6.30

    • The USA should disband immediately out of sheer embarrassment at the huge amounts of hypocrisy they generate on a daily basis right – its just outrageous how they parade around telling the whole planet how to live their lives ! . On the other hand of course Professor Sachs works at Colombia University , Lives in NYC and probably has a pretty good upper middle class life in the USA and can happily criticize his government all day long without any repercussions . I wonder how that level of public disagreement with his own government would go over if he lived in China do you think ?

      • aom 3.1.1

        The reason Professor Sachs was on the BBC programme was no doubt because of his qualifications and expertise on climate change.

        "Jeffrey D. Sachs is a world-renowned professor of economics, leader in sustainable development, senior UN advisor, bestselling author, and syndicated columnist whose monthly newspaper columns appear in more than 100 countries. He is the co-recipient of the 2015 Blue Planet Prize, the leading global prize for environmental leadership, and has twice been named among Time Magazine’s 100 most influential world leaders." – Columbia University site.

        The BBC, as it is want to do, blindsidedly changed the agenda from climate change to human rights abuses. As this is not the professor's area of expertise, he engaged the interviewer, without success, in an attempt to stop her derailing of the debate. The set-up became very obvious when it emerged that the other participant was a Chinese dissident. It does not appear he is qualified in any academic fields related to climatology – the topic of discussion.

        The salient question might be, would a programme debating mutual approaches to climate change, if on Chinese media would have devolved into an interviewer's engineered slanging match on respective human rights abuses? One would hope not!

      • Morrissey 3.1.2

        …. and can happily criticize his government all day long without any repercussions.

        Abolitionists, union organizers, feminists, free speech advocates have been targeted by the U.S. state right from the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, and state laws against "sedition" down to the persecution of journalists and whistle-blowers like Ellsberg, Snowden, Manning and Assange. Thanks to the struggles of free speech advocates dating back to Patrick Henry and Ben Franklin, there is still freedom to speak out in the United States. It is, however, increasingly under threat.

        • Dal Tarrent

          Civil rights activists , Politicians and Activists in Hong Kong , Scientists , Artists , Businessmen , common farmers concerned about their lands being polluted or taken by corrupt officials – have all been punished , imprisoned and executed by the PRC and its security organizations right up to this very day with no sign at all of this kind of behavior by the Chinese regime showing any signs of slacking – just getting more extreme .

          See how easy it is to pen a very broad/ sweeping paragraph about how poorly a particular National entity behaves towards its own citizens ?

          I can probably write one about NZ too !

          But of course you did not respond to my original point which was how long of a career do you think the fair Professor would have in the PRC .?

    • Morrissey 3.2

      Laila Harré did pretty much the same thing last week, as she injected some rare seriousness and rationality to National Radio's light chat show. ….


      • Sacha 3.2.1

        Thank you for not offering a 'transcript'.

        • Morrissey

          Why the scare quotes, Sacha? Actually I'm working on a transcript of that memorable piece of radio right now. Her putting straight of the notorious Prof. Patman*, as well as the complacent Wallace Chapman and the right wing ideologue David Farrar was too good to be lost forever in the ether.

          * https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11092013/#comment-694967

          • Incognito

            vox Morrissey

            Don’t bother posting it here on TS; we prefer original contributions.

            Some things should be lost forever in the ether.

            • Morrissey

              Don’t bother posting it here on TS; we prefer original contributions.

              So how come you tolerate the likes of Joe90 simply posting up Twitter messages every day?

              Some things should be lost forever in the ether.

              Fair comment. That applies to 99 per cent of Wallace Chapman's show. But not to sterling contributions by thoughtful and articulate commentators such as Laila Harré.

              • Andre

                … Joe90 simply posting up Twitter messages every day?

                I know it goes whoooosh over your head, but joe90 actually generally conveys more original thought and commentary in just a handful of well-chosen words accompanying those posts than is present in the screeds of repetitive stuff you continually re-post.

                • Morrissey

                  …. conveys more original thought and commentary in just a handful of well-chosen words accompanying those posts than is present in the screeds of repetitive stuff you continually re-post.

                  That's one of the funniest statements you've ever made. Far funnier than any of those daily jibes at President "Tweetyturd" to which you treated us over the last four years.

                  A decade or so ago, one Michael White made the outlandishly funny claim that the pompous Channel 4 autocue reader Jon Snow was a better journalist than, of all people, John Pilger.

                  I'd say he does more good for progressive attitudes than half a dozen Pilgers, wouldn't you?


                  Congratulations. You're right up there with…. Michael White. sad

                  • Incognito

                    Even your ad homs are boring and stale. C’mon Mossie, go deep, aim high, and make’m fly, to the sky.

              • Incognito

                Hmmm, what is the difference between prefer and tolerate?

                BTW, I cannot read tweets as I’m not on Twitter; my ‘department’ is transcripts.

                PS Joe90 is a cool name!

              • mauī

                "So how come you tolerate the likes of Joe90 simply posting up Twitter messages every day?"

                You gotta love the double standards of a blow happy referee.

                • Incognito


                  You gotta love those amateur arm-chair ‘referees’ who think they know better, think they see more, but who don’t fully understand the rules of the game, don’t know how to tune their Smart TV or how to operate the remote and then when the game wasn’t to their liking they want their money back and blame the referee angry

                • Adrian Thornton

                  "You gotta love the double standards of a blow happy referee." +1…except I also think it is actually very damaging to the general atmosphere of TS.

                  • Incognito

                    I think you are actually polluting discourse and creating a suffocating atmosphere here. What’s worse, your attacks are setting a bad precedent for others. It seems you’re Hellbound to escalate this to a point of no return. Are you sure about this?

              • Adrian Thornton

                "So how come you tolerate the likes of Joe90 simply posting up Twitter messages every day?"…that is because Incognito mostly agrees with Joe 90 and never with you…as has become plainly obvious over the previous months the only debate incognito can generally handle are ones that take place within the walls of their own set political paradigm..or at least close to it.

                BTW I and many others on TS really enjoy reading your transcripts..and I assume TS isn't here just to conform to Incognito's dubious aesthetic.

                • Incognito

                  One transcript speaks (nearly) a thousand words: https://thestandard.org.nz/walkergate-mp-quits/#comment-1727532.

                  Many readers don’t mind at all scrolling and scrolling past these transcripts on their phones or past your own legendary exchanges that descend into conspiracy rabbit holes committed by Ruskies and Yankees and attacking just about every other commenter who needs to “turn [more/further] Left”, in your view.

                  Of course, your thinly veiled and indirect attack on me as Moderator ignores the fact that those transcripts not only are often long and tedious to read and/or scroll past, puerile, and often contain errors as noted by others here (e.g. https://thestandard.org.nz/brash-bassett-and-hide-take-up-blogging/#comment-1775697). You do seem to go about it in a sly way when attacking some (i.e. the usual) people on this site.

                  I’d be most obliged to you if you could find me a few examples where I unequivocally agree with joe90 given that you assert that I mostly (??) agree with joe90. I might reciprocate with a few examples where I do actually agree with Mossie even though you assert that I never (!) agree with him; I’m not that disagreeable by nature unless I’m hangry and need a Kit Kat.

                  I would also be highly appreciative if you could give a description of my “set political paradigm” and show how this is influencing my moderation here in a way that is unfair or unreasonable to you and/or Mossie and interferes with your desire to express yourself here as you wish without giving any consideration of how you come across to others. In fact, you always seem to be looking and thirsting for a ‘good [shit] fight’ here.

                  Lastly, I do try to encourage robust debate, which should be inclusive and without undue prescription as long as it adheres to this site’s Policy. Removing noise & dirt & nasty trolls have nothing to do my “dubious aesthetic” although I do admit that I prefer beautifully worded arguments and masterly crafted comments.

                  I prefer not to let this drag on for much longer, because the fun part is long gone for me and you constantly needling, criticizing, and attacking a Moderator might set a wrong example for others. I look forward to you backing up your accusations soon with rockhard watertight evidence or dropping this exercise in futility and surefire way to self-Martyrdom, so that we can move on.

                  The ball is now in your court, for the very last time, i.e. put up or shut up.

                  • Morrissey

                    One transcript speaks (nearly) a thousand words:


                    MEMO Incognito:

                    It was not a transcript, it was a satire. Everyone who commented underneath that little drama—ianmac, Drowsy M. Kram, and georgecom—got that it was a satire. Surely you don't think it was really a transcript?

                    • Incognito

                      Didn’t read the commentary, just picked the first ‘transcript’ that suited my comment. If you insist, I can pick one of your real transcripts from your oeuvre here; there are some real doozies among them.

                      I have to ask, was that intended as self-satire, if there even is such a thing? Pretty good effort, I have to admit; I fell for it, in my hurry to finish the comment on time.

                      I get that some people enjoy your transcripts and the suggestion has been made for you to post them on your own blog. I think that is an excellent suggestion, a win-win for all.

                    • Adrian Thornton

                      Siobhan, myself and few other lefties we know who started reading TS about the same time, were/are all big fans of your‘transcripts’ Morrissey and would get great enjoyment out of reading them and then recounting and laughing about our favourite bits when we got together.

                      Unfortunately most of those other Lefties no longer read TS, which is doubly sad because most of them where younger Lefties in their twenties. I would go into the reasons why they don’t bother reading TS any longer…but I think that is pretty clear.

                      This movement to not allow you to put those great pieces of truly original and funny satire on The Standard any longer is an indescribable loss for TS, one of main points of obvious humour cut out like this only illustrates what a humourless place it is being pushed into becoming.

                    • Morrissey

                      Thanks very much, Adrian. I'm ecstatic, yet humbled, to hear that.

                      You're welcome to stage National Party Emergency Caucus Meeting (© Daisycutter Sports, 2005) or Mrs Brown's Boys (© Daisycutter Sports, 2013) or The Clobbering Machine (© Daisycutter Sports, 2013) at any time. I'll even drive the Breenmobile down to the Heretaunga Plains to help you workshop it if you like.

                    • Incognito []

                      I love good satire. We need more political satire in NZ although Don and Boris have killed it, I’m afraid. Just no transcripts.

                • weka

                  BTW I and many others on TS really enjoy reading your transcripts..and I assume TS isn't here just to conform to Incognito's dubious aesthetic.

                  I can think of three moderators who have reached the end of their patience with the transcripts. For me it's the historical inaccuracy and simply not having time to check. That and him having a habit of slandering public figures and putting the site at legal risk is why there's an intolerance now.

                  • Morrissey

                    Pretty good effort, I have to admit; I fell for it, in my hurry to finish the comment on time. I get that some people enjoy your transcripts

                    Thanks for that, Incognito. I appreciate that you acknowledge that fact.

                    and the suggestion has been made

                    By Sacha. Only by Sacha. Who has hardly ever said anything kind or even reasonably good-tempered to me.

                    for you to post them on your own blog. I think that is an excellent suggestion, a win-win for all.

                    No, I will not cease putting up transcripts of the vacuous and/or malicious things that politicians and broadcasters say. However, because I don't want to bore you or the other people on this site or overwhelm them with transcripts, I have hardly put any up at all for a long time, and I don't intend to for a while either. Except possibly just a bit of that Panel segment featuring Professor Robert Patman and Laila Harré.

                    • Adrian Thornton

                      You know only boring people get bored easily..well that is what have observed of my life time anyway.

                    • Incognito []


                    • Incognito

                      Please, allow me to make a suggestion to you: don’t post your transcripts here on TS but post them on your own blog instead. Please never ever post transcripts from yesteryear here again.

                      If you must post new transcripts, I would strongly encourage you to go extremely lightly with them, so lightly that none of the pissed-off Moderators gets even more pissed off with them and/or you.

                      It’s just a suggestion, of course 😉

                      You could provide a link to the audio, with a bit of original commentary and personal analysis but without any ad homs and without any transcript. I know, it sounds radical, but most commenters are doing it this way here and I’m confident that you can too 😉

                    • Morrissey

                      I've just told you, quite clearly, that I have not posted any transcripts for many, many months. If I do put any up, than I will keep them short and to the point.

                      I have spent a lot of time on the transcripts that I've done for this site. I take great pains to present them attractively, and with complete accuracy. I have transcribed things that politicians and broadcasters would rather were forgotten—for example, RNZ National Panel hosts and guests hooting in derision at the suffering of Julian Assange, or a National Party Cabinet minister telling Kathryn Ryan that there is "a variety of various variables", or Paul Henry ranting on breakfast television: "We have to be in there STRONG and HARD! We have to KILL THEM ALL! And in the course of this, bombs are going to bounce into tents where there are women and children! But we must not get up in arms about that! Kill them all!"

                      Why should I not put such things, awful and disgusting as they are, up on this site? I thought this was a forum for serious discussion and analysis.

                      [Ok, have it your way, you’re now being Moderated.

                      I’ve just told you, quite clearly, that I have not posted any transcripts for many, many months. If I do put any up, than I will keep them short and to the point.

                      And right on cue, you produce a humourless transcript from yesteryear: https://thestandard.org.nz/australia-is-picking-a-fight-with-china/#comment-1790135.

                      It didn’t take me long to find a number of transcripts, or are they satires, over the last couple of months or so:


                      I’ve even asked you before in a Moderation note to start up your own blog: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-04-2021/#comment-1787661.

                      I know transcribing is hard work, although software applications are becoming quite impressive and useful, and I know that some here lament the loss of your transcriptions here as the last remaining sense of humour and thus of human creativity and intelligence on this site. I sympathise with those losers.

                      However, a number of Moderators now have outlined why they have a wee problem with your transcripts. Given that transcripts are simply a written copy of audio, a link to the original source would and does suffice. If necessary, provide a time stamp pointing to the specific segment that you want to highlight. As such, (your) transcripts are no substitutes or surrogates for serious discussion and analysis. Unfortunately, you seem to put so much effort in the transcribing that you omit adding any decent analysis other than snide remarks about a wonderful interviewer/panel and the awful interviewee or vice versa. As weka mentioned, on occasion this has bordered on slander and putting this site at risk.

                      You insist that will continue putting up your transcripts (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27-04-2021/#comment-1790116). This could be a problem because you’ve demonstrated beyond any doubt that you cannot self-moderate your comments and commenting behaviour.

                      You can do whatever you like on your own blog and others can visit and read your transcripts to their heart’s content over there, but on this site, you must take heed of Moderators’ guidance. This is your warning – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      See my Moderation note @ 11:40 pm.

                    • Sacha

                      Hey, I was sincerely thanking you. Was about to agree with another comment of yours too.

                      Weka has explained concisely the problem for the site regardless of the opinion of me or anyone else. Please think broader.

                    • Morrissey

                      And right on cue, you produce a humourless transcript from yesteryear…

                      The humourlessness of that transcript is entirely due to the Australian prime minister and his moronic interlocutors. It's actually far worse than "humourless", of course: it's a brutal and nasty demonstration of contempt for both Pamela Anderson and the political prisoner she is speaking for.

                      As weka mentioned, on occasion this has bordered on slander and putting this site at risk.

                      That ONE occasion—I was unable to provide evidence of a politician alleging something nasty—has been well and truly put to bed. I apologized to both Mr Prent and the politician involved. You personally thanked me for that apology. Now, when else have I ever "bordered on slander" or put this site at risk? Was I slandering Scott Morrison by transcribing his malicious and humourless denigration of a political prisoner?

                      …. you’ve demonstrated beyond any doubt that you cannot self-moderate your comments and commenting behaviour.

                      That is an unfair and highly prejudiced accusation. Where have I ever personally denigrated anyone on this forum, or used foul language, or—apart from the one incident already mentioned and dealt with—made unfounded accusations about anyone?

                      You can do whatever you like on your own blog and others can visit and read your transcripts to their heart’s content over there, but on this site, you must take heed of Moderators’ guidance.

                      I do take heed of Moderators' guidance.

                      [Why are you wasting more Moderator when you’re already being Moderated?

                      Clearly, whether your transcripts are funny and contain humour is highly subjective but also irrelevant to this Moderation. This site is not an entertainment channel for people to express and enjoy their personal fetish. Nor is it aiming to compete with Comedy Central. There’s plenty of room and opportunity for sharp wit and satire, without your transcripts.

                      Yes, you apologised when you crossed the line, which was the right thing to do. I’ve no interest in trying to find other instances that might have occurred before I became Moderator here; I have a feeling the other Moderators could easily chip in here, but this is not necessary. Once is enough to make the point. Note that this is not the only reason for your Moderation.

                      There is a tediously long history of warning you in comments and Moderating you. You still don’t get it or still don’t want to get it; you dig in, you argue back, you resist, you litigate, you’re a recidivist offender who has wasted hours of Moderator time here over the years. I see this lack of adaptation and improvement as proof that you cannot self-moderate or don’t want to. Moreover, your comments regularly contain snide remarks and negativity/negative criticism aimed at others although perhaps not generally others on this forum (i.e. other commenters), which is synonymous with “denigrate” in my version of the English language. Criticism is ok, necessary even, but it needs to be fair and constructive and supported with analysis (which a transcript is not!). Taking potshots at people is the act of a small-minded wee soul. And it is not funny.

                      You assert you take heed of Moderators’ guidance. You forgot to qualify this conditional assertion; if you had taken heed in the past, we wouldn’t have that long history, or should I call it “precedence”, and if you had taken heed, I would not have to spend time writing this Moderation note either, which is yet another one added to the ever-growing list.

                      Don’t assume you can use this site as your personal playground and sandpit; you don’t pay a cent towards its running costs and you don’t spend any time & effort in managing it nor do you write any (Guest) Posts. You’re free to comment here as long as you follow instructions. You have your own blog where you can be in total control and do whatever you like within the boundaries of NZ Law.

                      This conversation is now closed! Take it or leave it – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []

                      See my final (!) Moderation note to you @ 3:08 pm.

            • Sacha

              Bound to be 'original' like most fiction is. 🙂

          • Ed

            I'd love a transcript Morrissey!

            Like you, I despair of the verbose, partisan and ineffectual Chapman.

            • Sacha

              Perfect! He can post it on his own blog and send you the link.

              • Adrian Thornton

                What the hell does it matter to you if he posts it on The Standard?…if you don't like then don't read read…there problem solved.

                • Incognito

                  Do try a dose of your own medicine: “if you don’t like then don’t read read…there problem solved” [sic]. Up the dose when coming across any commenter or Moderator, comment or Moderation note, that might make your brain explode and trigger a verbiage of verbal diarrhoea from you.

                • Sacha

                  signal to noise ratio.

                  and what the hell does it matter to you if he posts it on his own blog..

                • Morrissey

                  She reads them all right, Adrian. She even had a minor supporting role in one, back in December 2013*, which is the reason for her unending anger and animosity.

                  • She was supporting ….. (wait for it)…. Matthew Hooton.


                  [link fixed]

                  • Incognito

                    Who is “she”? Michelle LeBoag?

                    BTW, I fixed your link. FYI, don’t paste (Ctrl + V) TS links but use the Link button (Ctrl + K) in the comment/text editor.

                    • Morrissey

                      Thanks for fixing the link. You're a real champion, I think.

                      "She" is our good friend Sacha. My first ever interaction with her came after the post "Mr Brown's Boys", which sent up the naïveté and gullibility of commentators on Russell Brown's site. She's had it in for me ever since. The old Breen charm routine fails to impress her, I'm afraid. blush

                    • Incognito []

                      Oh dear! You pay so little attention to other commenters and comments here because you’re too busy ad homming and ‘discussing’ people. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10-04-2021/#comment-1787675.

                      Maybe Sacha doesn’t like to be insulted and who does? They can fill you in on their motives, if they wish 😀

                      The “old Breen charm routine”? You’re starting to sound like an old sleazebag wearing Old Spice.

                    • Morrissey

                      Maybe Sacha doesn’t like to be insulted and who does? They can fill you in on their motives, if they wish

                      “They”? OMG, how many Sachas are there?

                      You’re starting to sound like an old sleazebag wearing Old Spice.

                      Tough assessment—but fair, methinks. And funny. That's a Kit-Kat for you, my friend.


                    • Incognito []

                      OMG, how many Sachas are there?

                      Yeah, I know, astroturfing is becoming a problem and it is hard keeping them apart when they all use the same name, which can be very deceiving.

                      That’s a Kit-Kat for you, my friend.

                      Oh yum! I’m gonna share it with my other friend here, Sabine.

                    • Sacha

                      I really thought he had paid more attention. 🙂

  4. weka 4

    Robert, if you are around thought you might enjoy this. Others here too.


  5. GreenBus 5

    Side issue. Motels are not slums. Even cheap ones are infinitely better than living in a car. Since there are not enough houses to go around, isn't this a pretty good solution? Motel rates need to be brought under control though. And you can't choose your neighbours if the mob moves in next door, it can happen to anyone. Yes NZ needs more houses built but this will take a long time. Can't the Gov't just buy these Motels for 'the state' and let developers build more new ones?

    • weka 5.1


    • Sabine 5.2

      you must not have seen some of the motels and the people housed there.

      If you lived next to drug peddling gangsters with your family and you have no way of escape you might think twice about living in a van or car.

      No the government 'can't just buy' these motels, they are private property -landbankers if you want so – and they are getting greased by the government beyond believe. Heck for 400 NZD a night (highest amount paid so far as per reports) they could pay rent fully. But then that would be a novel idea, and we only ever tried the known, tried and true and for the best profit for the motel lobby. Cause some industries are more deserving of receiving governments money then others. Never mind the all the unpleasantness about it.

      • GreenBus 5.2.1

        Sabine as an ex rep I can claim to have stayed in more motels than most including low cost south Auckland motels many times. It's comes down to security if you want safe. It's no place for children though, which is what you are alluding too I suppose. OK for adults as long as your aware of your surroundings and live accordingly. It is still much better and much safer than a car. Maybe some people worry too much about the lower socioeconomic situation and let the media hype put unreasonable fear into conservative people.

        • Sabine

          As an ex rep you have no idea what you are talking about. Thanks.

          Maybe you should have a good look at the motels that participate in this scheme, and you will find that most are motels that you as a rep would never have booked in, or say your company would have paid for.

          Shoving a family of 4+ into a 25sqm 4 – 6 bed room is not the same as you coming as a rep, eating in a restaurant for dinner, coming in to sleep – maybe a cuppa and some Sky before going to bed before you travelled on to the next motel to stay for A night.

          Apples and oranges are both fruit, both come from trees and that is literally where all 'sameness' then ends.

          • GreenBus

            Nope. Still better than living in a car. BTW I have stayed in plenty of low end motels and had takeaways mostly. Dining by oneself is over rated. I'm not saying all motels are good. There are a lot of shitholes out their BUT they have more room, are warmer, have a bed, shower, kitchenete, etc etc etc. Your car have this?My bus does, but then it is not a car. I lived in my car at the Mount for 6 winter months when I was a bit younger. I have very low standards it would seem.

      • Sabine 5.3.1

        but but but – details details Joe.

        also this 🙂


        read this article and then weep. Homelessness is big business for motels tha twould have already died due to lack of tourists. Heck, so it seems that one part of the tourism industry does get help from the government.

        With the election over, there's a renewed drive to lease or purchase hotels for transitional housing – but industry leaders warn it is simply subsidising the tourism industry without fixing the crisis in homelessness.

        Government agencies want to buy up motels to house families who may otherwise spend Christmas on the streets, or crammed into sheds and garages.

        The homelessness crisis was temporarily swept out of sight during the Covid lockdowns and, conveniently, the election campaign. It is now re-emerging ahead of Christmas.

        Moteliers say Work and Income has been paying them enormous amounts to rent motels rooms for days and weeks at a time; as well as paying the full nightly tariff, Work and Income pays for security and up to $2500 for repairs to every room after they have been used.

        they could have rented a standard bog property of trade me irrespective of the cost of that rental, housed a family longterm that way, and still have saved money.

        yeah, and it is as cynical as that:

        He welcomed the Government's renewed drive to purchase motels, saying they would be purchasing in lower socio-economic suburbs like Taradale, and by removing stock from the market would help the remaining moteliers.

        "It's fantastic that they are starting to buy again," he said. "They're looking after the people who need accommodation and, for any current motel owner, it should increase our occupancy rates. It's a win-win."

        this fucking government.

        • Patricia Bremner

          Where are these mythical properties the Government could rent.? A potty mouth and a twisted view of the world does not help.. Some of your arguments are cogent, but most are thorough going rants.

      • Jimmy 5.3.2

        I have never been to Wanganui. After watching this, I never want to go to Wanganui.

        • Sabine

          Silly you, Wanganui is a lovely place.

          • Jimmy

            Well this particular video of Wanganui is hardly selling it as a tourist destination…..think I would prefer to holiday in the Sunshine Coast (or virtually anywhere other than Gonville, Wanganui)!

            • In Vino

              So, Jimmy, you judge all Gonville and Whanganui by one little video of one little spot.

              I and others will take this into account when assessing the intrinsic value of all your future comments – if we bother to read them.

              • Jimmy

                Perhaps you could list a few of the tourist highlights and points of interest of Gonville for me, and maybe we will look at it as a possible holiday destination.

  6. weka 6

    GreenBus, apparently they tried and word got round and sale prices went up.

    • Sabine 6.1

      we are paying somewhere of 110 – 400 NZD a night, guaranteed occupancy. No way Tiny Dean in Rotorua is selling his Motels, this is the best money he ever made. And he don't even need to do anything else then say, yeah, i can squeeze another twenty into here for 150 buck a nigh per person.

    • Sabine 6.2

      What gets me is, that they can be build faster then houses – i have seen some Motels go up very fast here in Vegas, same as for oldfolks housing, – what the government should do is maybe build to that model and start with 1 – 2 bedrooms and make it permanent housing with a concierge, maybe an on site social worker/ advocate that can help navigate Winz and such.

      That would be a much better use of money then what we are doing now.

      • greywarshark 6.2.1

        Sabine you will burst a foo-foo valve if you don't take a break and stop fulminating. For every criticism and fault you find – see if you can find something good and positive. Otherwise you and we will be off to the mental health and they are already overcrosded. How about taking a break every half an hour for a cup of tea or something.

        • Sabine

          Got nothing to say then dear?

          How about a nice virtual cup of your tea with your special sweetner of ' cant' be bothered'.

          As for me? Like with chocolate, i don't like the cheap crap, its too sweet, has no flavor and is essentially just a waste of money.

          Just like hte current governments inaction on our homeless crisis.

          bye now. 🙂

  7. Obtrectator 7

    Erdogan's attitude to women-in-power being made plain for all to see (not that it really needs pointing out any further):


    I'll never be convinced it was any kind of oversight. And Charles Michel's "reaction" was little short of contemptible.

  8. Ed1 8

    Old Man's Beard

    One of the nastier little changes the Nats made was to remove the requirement from house owners to eliminate noxious plants such as old mans beard. I don't know whether that can be done by regulation or whether an act is required, but there has now been long enough for that pest at least to regain a foothold in quite a few areas. This might be a ping pong issue (and landlords will complain about yet more regulation and costs pushing up rents), but I believe it worth doing as soon as possible.

    • Sabine 8.1

      moth plant, kudzu, etc.

      yet here our council sprays the good plants so that the weeds prosper.

      The best one that i saw a few years ago was a 'blackberry' weed eradication programme – never mind all of us who liked to go and pick these for jams and pies. The managed to kill most of the blackberry and now replaced it with kudzu and moth plant.

      Pests. ey?

    • greywarshark 8.2

      I am amazed too that old man's beard is not a hot issue, I see so much of it. And sneak into any controls one against bindweed – Convulvulus arvensis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolvulus_arvensis

      Bindweed actually has quite a pretty, white, trumpet-like flower but it is a brute of a plant. An invasive vine, once established it's extremely difficult to get rid of. … The Bindweed stems creep along the surface of the soil, climbing fences, other plants and whatever else they encounter, forming dense, tangled mats. https://www.henrystreet.co.uk/battling-bindweed-in-your-garden/

      But that's a half-truth. Actually it grows roots like thin pipes underground whether you can see it above or not, quite often both. Morning glory (Calystegia) can also be called bindweed.

  9. Ad 9

    A big shoutout to Dunedin's Mayor Dave Cull, who has died at 71.


    Under his leadership at Dunedin there was a fair few fine moves that occurred. The ones I noticed are:

    – Turning the historic precinct from a run-down and derelict waterfront into a high-end innovation and commercial precinct.

    – Wrinsing out the historical corruption within Dunedin City operations, and enabling a new generation of managers to rise through a good CE

    – Getting a much stronger grip on Aurora Ltd and their horrific maintenance record. And a generally stronger grip on all the City companies

    – Getting DCC's debt under control, post-stadium build

    – Upgrading all of the central Dunedin water supply from E to A

    – Enabling rail tourism to flourish

    – Persuading NZTA to get cycleways all the way out to Port Chalmers on one side of the harbour, and out beyond Portobello on the other (though it took until this term to see it really rolling)

    – Pushing successfully (both as Mayor and as Chair of Southern DHB) for a brand new hospital (which is still going through another Cabinet cycle)


    And from all reports I got, being effective as a leader at the Council.

  10. lprent 10

    Hopefully no-one got affected by the disk change tonight. Upgraded the disk array for The Standard. Took about 25 minutes longer than it should have.

  11. Jimmy 11

    I hope they fine this guy a decent amount, as it sounds like he travelled from Perth when he knew he shouldn't have, and basically puts everyone else at risk. If he ends up with a slap from the wet bus ticket it will be no disincentive.

    Man who flew from Perth 'knew he should not be travelling to NZ': Immigration boss | Stuff.co.nz

    • lprent 11.1

      I hope they fine this guy a decent amount…

      Yep. Or just stuff him in special MIQ in Mt Eden for 2 weeks and charge him full price for it. But somehow, instead, they picked him up at the border and sent him home in Northland to self-isolate. Just encourages more irresponsible idiots.

      Not sure who has control in a case like this, police, customs, MoH?

      I have very little tolerance for people who knowingly put whole populations of people in potential jeopardy.

      • Jimmy 11.1.1

        Concerns me that they trust him to self isolate in Northland, especially after the way he left Perth and changed flights etc. It doesn't sound like he is that trustworthy.

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