Open mike 27/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 27th, 2023 - 85 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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85 comments on “Open mike 27/11/2023 ”

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  1. Tricledrown 1
    27 November 2023 at 9:27 am

    Pathetic Luxon defends tobacco companies using the tobacco lobbiest's propaganda black market threat and vaping .No mention of the5,000 deaths every year or the $billion cost every year to the health system so robbing Peter to pay Paul . The health system is paying for Nationals tax cuts.

    • dv 1.1
      27 November 2023 at 10:05 am

      There was a report in Stuff (can't find it now!!!) where Luxon said that the labour plan to reducie the tobacco levels etc would increase RAM raids. Duh

  2. Ad 2
    27 November 2023 at 9:41 am

    I think there's so many disheartened people in this country right now that we need some posts on people we draw inspiration and hope from.

    • weka 2.2
      27 November 2023 at 3:30 pm

      good idea Ad. I've been awol with posts, but might get back into it soon.

    • Robert Guyton 2.3
      27 November 2023 at 4:32 pm

      "people we draw inspiration and hope from"

      Visited a sheep farm last week, where the sizeable blocks of remnant native forest have been covenanted and fenced, and a good percentage of the remaining pastureland planted in trees. The farmer, 5th generation on that farm, described the significant increase to his projected income; through the particular "carbon trade" agreements he has undertaken. A very smart man. Also in attendance was a kaumatua manawhenua who described the much-longer and incident-rich history of his hapu with the rolling country, rivers and streams of which the farm was part. The connection and good relationship between him and the farmer was very apparent. There are very good, calm and connected people out there who take "changes of state" in their stride. Both of these men are polite, well informed and refuse to malign anyone. I tried to learn from them 🙂

  3. Reality 3
    27 November 2023 at 9:42 am

    As a non-smoker who grew up from childhood to adulthood and beyond, surrounded by smokers, I have had COPD for many years. This requires frequent daily medication, and my physical activity has been very much affected. This is an appalling cigarette policy of the incoming government. Venal, as always. I have no respect for any of them.

    • Patricia Bremner 3.1
      27 November 2023 at 11:34 am

      Reality, this is affirmation of their hollow nastiness.sad

    • Terry 3.2
      27 November 2023 at 12:33 pm

      Tobacco contains an addictive drug. We should have learned by now that prohibition on drugs leads to a uncontrolled black market.

      I’m absolutely sure the gangs, aka the mongrel mob, black power etc, will fully support the absolute banning of tobacco, alcohol, as well as the continued criminalisation of cannabis. This is how they make their money, so they can buy their Harley Davidsons

  4. Reality 4
    27 November 2023 at 9:51 am

    The lack of people in the new government who have any real and genuine empathy for people I have yet to see. They seem so calculating and cold and make it so obvious money is all that matters – yes that matters but so do people's lives.

    • gsays 4.1
      27 November 2023 at 12:57 pm

      I caught up with a buddy who's is a member of one of the nautical unions. (He works on a cement transport ship).

      He spoke of seeing Brooke Van Helden(?), the new Workplace Relations minister, gleefully saying the end of Fair Pay Agreements was nigh.

      He observed "We knew it was gonna be unfair, but you don't have to be so happy about it."

  5. Robert Guyton 5
    27 November 2023 at 10:02 am

    Well this is awkward…

    “After briefly calling for the world to bid adieu to fossil fuels, Kiwi diplomats may have to change tack at this week’s UN climate summit.

    The election and drawn-out coalition talks have cast uncertainty over New Zealand’s position on a global phase-out of coal, oil and gas – likely to be a major point of debate at the talks that begin Thursday.

    Negotiators were given the green light on the environmental issue by the Labour Government in July, after the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade gauged public opinion.

    The ministry said it now must consult with the incoming Government before and during the summit. The National, ACT and NZ First parties want to promote, not limit, domestic oil and gas extraction and wouldn’t answer questions on their intentions for the major summit.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133340711/from-fossilfree-to-fossilfavouring-how-new-zealand-could-pivot-on-world-stage

    • Robin The Goodfellow 5.1
      27 November 2023 at 10:10 am

      Not really, new government new priorities

      • Macro 5.1.1
        27 November 2023 at 10:55 am

        Apart from trashing the environment and grifting themselves more money at the expense of others, just exactly what are those priorities?

        • Robin The Goodfellow 5.1.1.1
          27 November 2023 at 11:03 am

          A stronger economy and well paying jobs, especially in the provinces is a good start

          • Macro 5.1.1.1.1
            27 November 2023 at 12:54 pm

            All achieved at the expense of the environment and externalising costs onto the public and future generations – brilliant!

            BTW what exactly do you mean by "stronger economy"? Nice words – but just exactly what is that? A few extra plums for the well to do? And what is the economy for anyway? Have you ever asked yourself that?

            • Robin The Goodfellow 5.1.1.1.1.1
              27 November 2023 at 1:28 pm

              Which equals well paying jobs which equals more tax money and lower crime rates so yeah it is a good thing

              No more 'captains calls' for awhile and good riddance

              • KJT …
                27 November 2023 at 3:04 pm

                Please explain? How continuing to spend billions in supporting overseas oil companies, is better for an economy than using locally available renewables?

                That is before we even consider the costs of mitigation of long term climate change. We have just had some examples in Hawke Bay. I suppose all that fixing of climate disasters adds to GDP!

                I am OK with words of two syllables or less, as that seems to be the limit of your economic comprehension, combined with the typical right wing nut jobs inability in basic arithmetic.

    • Rolling-on-Gravel 5.2
      27 November 2023 at 10:41 am

      So much for the "we don't matter" contingent.

      Fuck that crowd.

      We goddamn matter and we should know it.

      We must and should be a climate leader.

      • Barfly 5.2.1
        27 November 2023 at 10:57 am

        “We must and should be a climate leader”

        Well we all know we can bend over and kiss that idea goodbye for at least the next three years

        • Robin The Goodfellow 5.2.1.1
          27 November 2023 at 11:00 am

          three six years

          [Stop trolling. This is your warning – Incognito]

        • Rolling-on-Gravel 5.2.1.2
          27 November 2023 at 11:22 am

          There's always protests, crises, and unexpected moments.

          Shrugs.

        • AB 5.2.1.3
          27 November 2023 at 11:26 am

          Maybe they know that the likelihood of actually finding any commercially viable new sources of oil and gas are pretty low. And all they are really after is to juice some provincial economies by having foreigners turn up for a few years and look for the stuff. Then it’s on to the next bit of magical thinking. Could be so, they are that short-termist.

          • Robin The Goodfellow 5.2.1.3.1
            27 November 2023 at 11:41 am

            If, and thats a big if, there is no gas or oil to be found then at least some money has gone into the provinces which is better than none

            Personally I think they'll find some, hopefully enough for stable, long term jobs in the region

            • AB 5.2.1.3.1.1
              27 November 2023 at 12:24 pm

              It doesn't need to be a case of "no gas or oil to be found" for exploration companies to walk away. It can also be a case of oil or gas being found in quantities and places that mean it can't be extracted profitably, or at least more profitably than alternatives in other parts of the world when calculated over the entire lifecycle of the reserves discovered. That is a pretty high threshold and it's why NZ is not Saudi Arabia.

              The risk of course is that if you want to juice the local economy by letting people look for the stuff, you might get unlucky and they do actually find an exploitable reserve. Then the government is committed to climate vandalism that trashes our reputation.

              • Stan …
                27 November 2023 at 12:48 pm

                It's possible that we have one of the world's biggest crude oil fields in the Great South Basin. Drilling there in the 70s was very promising, just too deep and rough to profitably extract but may be now. Here's hoping they do some more exploration there.

                DOI my dad was a geologist on Penrod '74, we still have little bottles of crude and condensate that he brought home stored away somewhere

                • AB …
                  27 November 2023 at 1:25 pm

                  Do you have technology capable of industrial-scale atmospheric CO2 extraction that would remove the CO2 emitted by burning such an oil reserve? Are you and your Dad working on something in the garage perhaps?

                • Robin The Goodfellow …
                  27 November 2023 at 1:26 pm

                  Imagine all the business and employment opportunities if that were to happen in Otago and Southland

                  Heres hoping

                • roblogic …
                  27 November 2023 at 3:27 pm

                  The dirty little secret of socialist utopia Norway is they struck it rich on North Sea oil. It could be a change of fortunes for us stuck here at the arse end of nowhere trying to sell cheese to the world

                  • KJT …
                    27 November 2023 at 4:25 pm

                    Unlike NZ Governments, the Norwegian Government didn't pay the oil companies to take it away.

                    The concessions NZ gave to even get oil companies to bring exploration rigs here, gives a good indication of the lack of economic benefits they expected.

                  • satty …
                    27 November 2023 at 5:14 pm

                    When working for a power company here in NZ a CEO or CIO suggested in an internal post that NZ should follow Norway in fossil fuel extraction. So I had a look into the Norwegian oil industry (as a comparison to UK for example).

                    As a summary, I pointed out he probably wouldn't want NZ to be like Norway. I never got a reply. Everyone only sees the wealth Norway created, but not the how they achieved it.

                    They had (probably still have) higher royalties for their oil than most other countries. They didn't allow the oil companies to burn off anything, they forced the oil companies to have a (head) office in Norway, where all profits have to be declared (employee of the Norway tax office working in the oil company offices) and taxed, all jobs had to be done by Norwegians (after training), all equipment had to be built and serviced in Norway, any oil spills have to be cleaned by the oil company and on top of it the companies have to pay for the lost oil… the list was impressive, not sure if all of the above still applies.
                    Statoil

                    Also all the royalties and tax was invested in a state owned fund, which had very tight investment restrictions, for example none of the investments were allowed to lift inflation within Norway.
                    Norway Government Fund

                    • roblogic …
                      27 November 2023 at 5:26 pm

                      That is brilliant – good for them. Can't see our present coalition of laissez-faire munters lifting a finger to enact such comprehensive protections.

        • Tricledrown 5.2.1.4
          27 November 2023 at 1:14 pm

          Just listening to the farming show on RNZ.Climate change with constant flooding slips then.most likely followed by drought. Then prices are down for lambs, beef ,Dairy all unprofitable .So many farmers will go bust. WHY because farmers are not preparing for the future farmers are a private enterprise a huge number vote ACT .Now farmers will want bailing out again no amount of ripping up the red tape will turn farming to longterm profitability. Value adding is the only answer exporting commodities only makes money for Trucking Shipping and retailers. Until Federated fits pull back from living in the past and add real value like prepared meals that can be microwaved or heated in an oven quickly. Like Nestlé do Farming will rely on capital gain on their land to make money.That stops productivity and innovation.Since exporting frozen meat in the 1890's Farming hasn't made any giant leap forward just making incremental improvements and bigger scale farming. National and Labour need to push farmers out of their comfort Zone. Processors need to be able to send reasonable priced ready meals that markets like China and India desire.But this will require millions of dollars in investment. Our major meat processors are barely profitable even in good years.Dairy profitable every 2 ou 4 years.Not a good way to run a business.

          Now National ACT NZ last are shutting the productivity commission.Dumb idea.

          Only because they have shown Nationals policies are not increasing productivity but the reverse leaving the Agriculture sector to carry-on failing and flailing. Luxon doesn't want any criticism of their lack of policy or vision. The bury your head in the sand and tax cuts and ripping up red tape followed by a heavy dose of Austerity is the only way.Maybe Shane Jones will get another $billion to spread around to a few politically high profile hand outs.

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.2
        27 November 2023 at 12:32 pm

        I'm interested in the "too small to matter" argument. I hear the usual responses; if each state in America claimed the same, the whole of the USA would stop action" etc, but rather than deny that those claiming "too small to matter", I'd agree with their claim that our contribution is small – we are small, after all, but then ask if it's up to us to pull out of the global actions and instead suggest that we should petition the global community and ask their permission to pull out. That would be the correct way of going about it, doncha think? 🙂

        • AB 5.2.2.1
          27 November 2023 at 5:33 pm

          ask their permission to pull out

          Quite so Robert. But the other part of the "too small to matter" delusion is that the rest of the world won't even notice our attempted freeloading if we do pull out, so we're absolved from the obligation to even ask.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.3
      27 November 2023 at 11:36 am

      Hello Robert. Yes this is an about turn that could impinge on Trade.

      • Robert Guyton 5.3.1
        27 November 2023 at 12:20 pm

        Hello Patricia. Trade, yes but also knock back the resolve that more and more New Zealanders were building to confront the challenge of climate change and take meaningful action on it. To be sold out by our Government is a set-back, but we shall see if it serves rather as a provocation to action.

    • Tony Veitch 5.4
      27 November 2023 at 12:02 pm

      The sad fact is:

      Governments will not make required changes to energy policies based on theoretical threats – there must be sufficient emperical evidence of harm to force action.

      Quoted in Nature Bats Last

      NACTNZF will be reactive rather than proactive because they're infested with climate deniers. After the floods . . . droughts . . . storms . . . etc they will do too little too late, a la the ChCh earthquake response.

      Restarting oil and gas exploration is the signal of their intention to burn the only planet we have!

    • Anne 5.5
      27 November 2023 at 12:22 pm

      Hi Robert.

      I thought about you this morning because we hadn't heard from you. Perhaps it was prompted by the same horrifying concerns about Climate change progress.

      The new CC minister is my MP and be assured he must be an expert. He lives in a house on a cliff overlooking the Hauraki Gulf and he can see all the clouds zipping by and the rain and the wind and the waves when they grow big with lots of white flecks so I guess that gives him the necessary knowledge for the role. He has a hybrid car covered in self advertising which he leaves parked in prominent positions close to his home. He also has a BA in management and accounting and finance which I am sure will stand him in very good stead as the CC minister.

      From all accounts he doesn't have a good reputation as our local MP but I'm sure all of that is about to change. crying

      • Robert Guyton 5.5.1
        27 November 2023 at 12:40 pm

        Hi Anne. Thanks for thinking about me 🙂

        I have to say, I'm not personally horrified; there's no gain in being so and I aim to further progress these matters. I don't blame any individual either; we are wrestling with a deeper current and shouldn't be fooled by the behaviour of those individuals bobbling around on the surface. The narrative must change and foolish, myopic actions from central government can serve to galvanise changes of perception. This sounds a bit precious, I know, but I've been on holiday from commenting and it'll take a while to get rhythm back 🙂

    • Ad 5.6
      27 November 2023 at 12:23 pm

      How many brownout threat notices from Transpower do these people need?

      In 2021 we had most of the central North Island shut down in the coldest day of the year.

      But apparently the market will solve it, next year, with fresh gas peaking plant built at the same time as a fresh gas field is discovered with fresh Transpower grid.

      Spare me from these fools.

      • Rolling-on-Gravel 5.6.1
        27 November 2023 at 12:26 pm

        Indeed, we treat the market as too much of a sacred thing. Wish we could consider stuff outside of the usual paradigm and start to do things that National may not expect to see us doing. I do not yet know what that would look like but that's what we need to do.

        • Robert Guyton 5.6.1.1
          27 November 2023 at 12:46 pm

          We do, Rolling. We can, There are solutions hovering in in anticipation of us finding them. Here is a good place to share them when we do.

    • Sandra Le Cron 5.7
      27 November 2023 at 12:44 pm

      No one wants to drill and explore off the coast of New Zealand anyway! It is now far too expensive so the previous ban was essentially just banner waiving and the removal of it will make no difference!

  6. alwyn 6
    27 November 2023 at 12:36 pm

    I almost felt sorry for Hipkins after seeing a press conference he held on Friday. I had been watching some of his interviews with the Press from just before the election.

    At those he had been backed by anywhere from 4 to 6 Ministers, all looking as if they were in awe of hearing their leader talking and all nodding in unison at the words he was uttering.

    On Friday he was all alone without any support and with only a very few journalists listening to him. It was a reminder of the great Bessie Smith singing her classic Nobody knows you when you are down and out.

    How long will Chippie last in the job? He must know that he is now a dead man walking. If he sees two of the Labour MPs talking will he still think they are simply be polite to him when they stop on his approach or will he be thinking that they were discussing his overthrow?

    As I say. I almost think I should feel sorry for him. Then I remember that he was a major figure in the worst New Zealand Government of my lifetime and that we are far better off with him gone.

    • Jack 6.1
      27 November 2023 at 12:58 pm

      Chippie really does have to stop that smarmy nodding donkey routine he perfected in the leaders debates. He was on the news again last night. Can’t remember what he was talking about. Probably wasn’t important. Just more smarmy nodding donkey.

    • Muttonbird 6.2
      27 November 2023 at 1:03 pm

      The worst New Zealand government in my lifetime is the current one.

      • Mike the Lefty 6.2.1
        27 November 2023 at 4:51 pm

        That's pretty hard criticism seeing they were only sworn in today.

        • alwyn 6.2.1.1
          27 November 2023 at 5:29 pm

          When he wrote that Luxon had been PM for about an hour and a half.

          The lefty journalists we have in NZ are probably already complaining that he hasn't got rid of the waiting list for orthopedic surgery yet. I'm sure that Labour would have completed the task by now, or at least claimed they had.

    • Mac1 6.3
      27 November 2023 at 4:34 pm

      Having that song in my repertoire, I must say that I don't think that Chris Hipkins could be the singer of such words as "Once I lived the life of a millionaire, Spent all my money without any care". Words better suited to John Key or Christopher Luxon perhaps.

      And who wants to be like a man who has no friends when he has no money? That's not the left wing ethic. A song for us would be more like "I Don't Want your Millions, Mister" or "The Preacher and the Slave (Pie in the Sky)."

      Both songs seen a mite apposite in today's climate with today's new government.

      • alwyn 6.3.1
        27 November 2023 at 5:37 pm

        If Chris was singing it the second line would be "spent all the tax-payer's money"

        Actually I would have to agree that the songs you mention are great ballads but I've never heard anyone sing them in a voice that was nearly as tuneful as Bessie at her best. I still have a lot of Pete Seeger discs but I would never say he had a great voice.

    • AB 6.4
      27 November 2023 at 5:43 pm

      Dear Alwyn, Those of us who have been around for a while realised long ago that you never feel sorry for anyone but yourself. That's the starting point for all forms of malice. It's OK, none of us is perfect. Life is a journey after all.
      “All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well”.

    • AB 6.5
      27 November 2023 at 5:57 pm

      “worst New Zealand Government of my lifetime”

      If they had been 'better' your lifetime might have been over by now. This has the makings of a difficult moral dilemma.

  7. Adrian 7
    27 November 2023 at 2:47 pm

    Now it appears as though the ramraids mysteriously all stopped after election night. Intriqueing coincidences always raise my suspicions and combined with my long held reply to any call of "Who did it and why? " I use that old standby,'" just follow the money ". To get all conspirational, can anybody remember hearing anybody proclaim on TV or anywhere…. "The little shits stole my Mazda Demio and crashed it into a dairy ". No? nary any poor old soul waving a walking stick in frustration at losing their shitbox shopping trolley….. so where did all these unclaimed Demios come from, or more to the point who supplied them, along with a bit of cheap piss and 50 bucks each to fund the mayhem?. Who had the money, like a bit of loose change from 6.8 million bucks looking to splash on a bit of destabilising arseholery ? I wonder who that could possibly be ?.

    My money is on a gang, no not one of them, but a gang with a political agenda, a right wing arseholery agenda, to move fast and break things agenda. Too fanciful you say, just don't forget that nearly every coup you can think of starts with broken shop window glass on footpaths, Hackney Diamonds in other words, or a Kristallnacht.

    Now lets start a list of the of rightwing arseholes capable of just such a campaign. Or just start the rumour… newspapers love rumours, it gives them something to follow, like dogs chasing a sewerage truck.

    • Robert Guyton 7.1
      27 November 2023 at 3:15 pm

      That's a bow of impressive length you are drawing there, Adrian, but fun to read. The now-Opposition will be rightly able to claim that the cessation came while it was still Government, which might quell the blowing-hard members who now squat on the Government seats.

      • weka 7.1.1
        27 November 2023 at 3:32 pm

        Great to see you back Robert. Hope all is well in your part of the world.

        • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1
          27 November 2023 at 4:18 pm

          Thanks, weka. As well as can be, given recent events 🙂

          My garden's thriving; I've 15 banana plants outside amongst the quinces and mulberries and they're looking very comfortable along with tamarillo that are flowering with intent. Council is absorbing the Government's proclamations and insinuations with mixed feelings. It's curious how much bolder one feels, when in "opposition". I see much feather-ruffling in the future.

          • Macro 7.1.1.1.1
            27 November 2023 at 6:37 pm

            mmmmmm Mulberries. Where can I get one. Looked all around the garden centres here. My daughters in Perth is just laden.

            • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1.1.1
              27 November 2023 at 6:47 pm

              You just have to want one really badly, then it will appear, as mine did 🙂

              It is possible to buy them at some plant stores, but that's cheating 🙂

              They taste so good!

          • weka 7.1.1.1.2
            27 November 2023 at 7:25 pm

            banana, quince and mulberry pie!

            Yes, I feel a term of Opposition has the potential to do good for the left. Hope we rise to the occasion

            • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1.2.1
              27 November 2023 at 9:39 pm

              I'm looking forward to Day One in the House – for entertainment purposes only.

              So many possibilities, so many past statements to be re-presented as questions to Ministers!

      • Adrian 7.1.2
        27 November 2023 at 5:02 pm

        Glad to amuse you Robert though I'm not much of an archer. Yes it pisses me off that it was rarely if ever mentioned that as the Police had been saying, they had pretty much arrested all the likely suspects and it would all peter out. I see a lot of countries from Australia to Germany seem to be having the same rash of ram raids, a crime as old as the automobile

        Although, there was one person of interest, a snappy dresser in a 3piece brown suit, if 60s style wide lapels, garish ties and a wrong side of town vibe and a big mouth could be called snappy, more sappy to my way of thinking and who always appeared to be there before the cameras and possibly even the cops and yet seemed to know the whole story. Interesting!!!

        • Visubversa 7.1.2.1
          27 November 2023 at 5:17 pm

          Ram raiding goes in and out of fashion. I had a couple of "friends of friends" who were quite keen on it about 30 years ago. They were older and they did the big stuff – warehouses at night, not corner Dairies. Some of them went to jail, some did not – and they all gave it away.

          And Adrian, I know exactly which greasy, waka-jumping opportunist to whom you refer!

          • Mike the Lefty 7.1.2.1.1
            27 November 2023 at 6:49 pm

            Luxon will inevitably claim for success in reducing ram raids, even though it happened before he was sworn in.

    • AB 7.2
      27 November 2023 at 5:51 pm

      Nah – they are all paralysed with fear of the divine, all-seeing wrath of Mark Mitchell. Surely?

    • Patricia Bremner 7.3
      27 November 2023 at 8:04 pm

      Adrian, yes Made a comment to him indoors about where some of those millions might have been spent.devil

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