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Open mike 27/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, May 27th, 2014 - 142 comments
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142 comments on “Open mike 27/05/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    27 May 2014 at 7:06 am

    Classic Herald headline. “Exports drive trade surplus to $1.2b”
    A headline for the illiterate right to crow over.

    But then read the full article and the future is nothing like so rosy……
    The comments by the Deutsche Bank chief economist are particularly informative.

    Funny the Herald didn’t write this headline.”Declining milk prices foreshadow future blowout in deficit.” But then that wouldn’t get Key re-elected, would it?

    Here are selected sections that show the deficit is likely to increase again.

    “But economists expect the improving trend in the annual trade balance to reverse when the sustained decline in dairy prices in Fonterra’s fortnightly auctions over the past three months is reflected in the value of shipments crossing the wharves.”

    “April is usually a surplus month and the latest surplus, equal to 12 per cent of exports, was in line with the average 13 per cent of exports over the previous five April months.”

    “On a seasonally adjusted basis dairy exports fell more by volume than by value last month compared with March, implying around a 3 per cent rise in export dairy prices.”

    Deutsche Bank chief economist Darren Gibbs expects the 12-month running trade surplus to continue to rise over the next three months and to narrow the current account deficit to about 2.5 per cent of gross domestic product from the 3.4 per cent recorded in December 2013.
    “[But] from later this year,” he said, “we would expect to see the deficit expand gradually as the trade data begins to reflect the lower dairy prices that have been seen in February and as import volumes continue to expand.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11262240

    • karol 1.1
      27 May 2014 at 7:10 am

      I didn’t look at the article, but I did wonder about the headline – what else would most likely drive a trade surplus, other than exports?

      • Gosman 1.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 7:32 am

        Lower import costs. Do you have evidence that volumes or prices have declined in this area?

        • Puddleglum 1.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 7:45 am

          Well, there is this from Paul’s comment above:

          “On a seasonally adjusted basis dairy exports fell more by volume than by value last month compared with March, implying around a 3 per cent rise in export dairy prices.”

        • Tracey 1.1.1.2
          27 May 2014 at 9:49 am

          are you pleased with the picture painted for the next year or two relating to exports and in particular the large decline in price for milk solids?

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.2
        27 May 2014 at 9:17 am

        They always talk about a great trade surplus but when you factor in the $15B p.a. that foreign owners take out of NZ per year, we end up in a nice fat long term current account deficit.

        Of course they won’t put that in a headline.

  2. Paul 2
    27 May 2014 at 7:31 am

    RNZ Morning Report now captured by the right. Just compare and contrast Espiner’s tone when interviewing Cunliffe today with his demeanour on Monday when chatting with Key.
    We pay taxes to support such bias.

    • odysseus 2.1
      27 May 2014 at 8:46 am

      This interview was appalling, Espiner was shrieking by the end …

    • ianmac 2.2
      27 May 2014 at 9:10 am

      But didn’t David do well!
      And yes Guyon’s rule of thumb is “Cuddle John” but “Scratch David’s Eyes out.”

    • Olwyn 2.3
      27 May 2014 at 9:29 am

      I noticed also that “David Cunliffe is planning to restrict immigration…his party is trailing 20 points behind National” featured on Morning Report as a news item. As if catching up to National was the only reason one might look at immigration levels. As if it was an FPP election.

    • Mary 2.4
      27 May 2014 at 10:04 am

      I like it when it Espiner’s questions are so off the mark his bias shows. Morning Report really has shown Espiner as the crap journalist he is.

  3. felix 3
    27 May 2014 at 7:32 am

    The Nation had Colin Craig on this weekend debating Labour’s Sue Moroney.

    Why does the media treat him as if he’s a member of parliament? He’s never won a seat. I don’t see members of Teh Libertarianz invited to debates on tv.

    What makes Colin special?

    • Paul 3.1
      27 May 2014 at 7:35 am

      His money and the fact he’ll support Key’s corporatocracy.
      Multinationals love people like that. As long as they can continue to pillage a country, they’ll probably allow some wacky policies.

    • Disraeli Gladstone 3.2
      27 May 2014 at 7:41 am

      I don’t think the media are flattering Craig and giving him air time because they like him. I think they’re giving him air time so he says something stupid on their television show and everyone goes to watch it.

      The Herald’s obsession with ACT is the odd one.

      • felix 3.2.1
        27 May 2014 at 7:56 am

        There are plenty of idiots who want votes and will say stupid things. I gave Teh Libertarianz as one example.

        What makes Colin special?

        • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 9:23 am

          Colin got 2.65% of the party vote at the last election, Libertarianz got 0.07%.

          If you don’t see why that would make Colin someone the media might want to talk to, and whoever it is from the Libertarianz remains in obscurity, then I don’t know what to tell you.

          Also according to Wikipedia, Libertarianz was dissolved in February, so another reason why they wouldn’t be interviewed.

          • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1.1
            27 May 2014 at 9:33 am

            Colin got 2.65% of the party vote at the last election, Libertarianz got 0.07%.

            If you don’t see why that would make Colin someone the media might want to talk to

            Yours is of course a logical assessment but partial IMO as we should not discount as relevant that the PM and his staff had been strategically lifting Colin’s profile in the media by mentioning him and the Conservatives in every conversation about coalition partners.

          • Tracey 3.2.1.1.2
            27 May 2014 at 9:40 am

            they seek him out more than those currently in parliament or with higher %.

            • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1.2.1
              27 May 2014 at 9:06 pm

              How do you know?

              It seems quite likely to me that other MPs they might approach to talk about a particular subject:
              1. Don’t want to, or
              2. Don’t have the time

              Colin Craig on the other hand will make time to get as much media coverage as possible.

              The question is whether the media are going to him first as an interviewee, or if he’s farther down the list (as rightfully befits him).

              • felix …
                28 May 2014 at 4:00 am

                Oh come on Lanth, how many Nat MPs are there? They’re not all busy at once.

                The ACT MP is probably busy but his leader is always happy to provide villiage idiot content.

                Then there’s Peter Dunne, then there are three maori Party MPs.

                And then we get to unelected non-representatives.

          • felix 3.2.1.1.3
            27 May 2014 at 10:34 am

            Hi Lanth, yeah I get why they might want to talk to him about why he’d like to be in parliament.

            But what I’m seeing over and over again is Colin Craig being placed opposite actual MPs and presented as if he is already an elected representative speaking on behalf of one side of the house.

            They even had him debating marriage equality opposite Louisa Wall who sponsored the bill!! They couldn’t find someone who was voting on the bill to oppose it?

            Sure, talk to him about his policies, his party list, whatever. But they shouldn’t present him as a representative because as of yet, according to our democratic system, he isn’t representing dick.

            • Puddleglum 3.2.1.1.3.1
              27 May 2014 at 3:23 pm

              And the tv3 poll keeps putting in the Conservatives with seats in their graphic.

              They must be assuming a gifted seat. Kind of legitimising or ‘socialising’ the idea.

              • Lanthanide …
                27 May 2014 at 9:07 pm

                They really, really should not be doing that.

                They give the other minor parties seats on the basis that they retain their seat. Conservatives have no seat to retain.

      • Ben Adam 3.2.2
        27 May 2014 at 9:13 am

        Paul Henry too seems an ACT and NAT fan. One can discern his overt and covert support to those parties and personalities.

        • Mary 3.2.2.1
          27 May 2014 at 9:55 am

          Only “seems”? Henry and Hoskings have got the two networks covered. The only difference between the two is that Hoskings gives his pathetic holier than thou right-wing diatribe in a cult leader-like fashion at the end of the programme while Henry shoots off the same stuff throughout.

    • tc 3.3
      27 May 2014 at 7:43 am

      Putting one of the blue sock puppets like bridges up against moroney is not what ct want this year. The slimy one struggles on is own, imagine JLR v SM….ouch.

      Loony distraction politics from the obediant msm, colon could be the new act as the nats like to blame the more extreme policies like charter schools on someone else.

    • Blue 3.4
      27 May 2014 at 9:56 am

      National needs him to form a government after the election. John Key’s media friends are looking out for him by promoting his potential coalition partners every chance they get.

    • The Lone Haranguer 3.5
      27 May 2014 at 11:22 am

      Felix, Why pick on Ms Moroney? She weems to be an able and likeable list MP

      In looking at the records of the 48th, 49th and 50th elections, It would appear that Sue Moroney has won exactly as many electorate seats as has Colin Craig – namely none at all.

      By virtue of the MMP system, she serves Labour in Parliament.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.5.1
        27 May 2014 at 12:12 pm

        By virtue of the MMP system, she serves Labour in Parliament.

        In other words, she’s been voted in whereas Craig hasn’t been at all.

      • felix 3.5.2
        27 May 2014 at 6:20 pm

        I’m sorry you don’t understand how our democracy works, The Lone Haranguer.

        Sue Moroney most certainly won her seat as part of the Labour Party list.

        ps is this another reason righties hate MMP so much: that it requires cooperation and collective effort as part of a greater whole?

  4. phillip ure 4
    27 May 2014 at 7:50 am

    the mana party/internet party deal is happening..

    ..woo-hoo..!

    ..now things will start to get interesting..

    • bad12 4.1
      27 May 2014 at 9:36 am

      Seems to be so Phillip, there will be an announcement from the Mana/internet parties from the Parliament at 11am this morning,

      IF this alliance does go ahead i can see at least 3–4% of the party vote going to Mana/Internet, as shown from the initial negotiations, and the publicity surrounding them, both Mana and Internet climbed in support on the following Roy Morgan poll, Mana to 1% and Internet to 1.5%,

      This was extremely good news at the time for the Labour/Green parties both of which also went up in that particular poll, showing that Mana/Interent are not necessarily going to ”poach” votes from Labour/Green,

      i am ”seeing” this election as being as tight or even tighter than 2011, a Mana/Internet alliance in the Parliament with 3–4% of the Party vote might just provide the perfect foil to Winston’s NZFirst where on the numbers National might not have an outright majority even with NZFirst counted on their side of the House,

      Dotcom is said to have cashed up the Internet Party with a 240,000 dollar donation,

      The ”ball” i would suggest is now in Labour’s court, do they do whip the rug out from under National by advising its voters in Te Tai Tokerau to split their votes electorate in favor of Hone and Party in favor of Kelvin Davis,

      Is 3 more years of Slippery the PM’s National Government really an acceptable price to pay for electoral purity and holding ‘the moral high ground’…

      • Tiger Mountain 4.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 10:11 am

        if Matt McCarten is earning his money Labour will give Davis a high list ranking, but my instinct says fortress Labour will rule as in Epsom last time

        • Anne 4.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 10:26 am

          Fortress Labour won’t have much say this time TM. The moderating committee which finalises the order of candidates is elected from the activist membership. I believe the Leader/Co-Leader and the President/General Secretary are automatically included. There’s a fresh leadership at the top and the old leadership will have little more input than the activist membership.

          Having said that, the problem lies with the individual lobby groups (or one-horse-pony groups as I call them) whose primary aim is to get their candidates well placed. In some cases this is laudable, but it does carry the risk that some good people end up languishing too far down the list. That seems to be what happened to Kelvin Davis last time.

        • bad12 4.1.1.2
          27 May 2014 at 10:35 am

          Yes Epsom, the ”other” crucial electorate in this years equation, it will be a tragedy of the highest order if both Labour and the Greens approach Epsom this election with any other intent than to have the National Party candidate ”win” there,

          Last time round David Parker for Labour and David Hay for the Green’s between them picked up around 8000 electorate votes, Banks won that seat with less than a 2000 vote majority

          David Parker and Julie Ann Genter this election will contest the Epsom electorate and if they approach this with the sole intent of installing the National Candidate as the winner the pair of them may well have ”won” the election outright for the ”left”,

          Strategy for this election has gone way way past ”the message”, Labour in the Te Tai Tokerau and Waiariki Maori electorate seats hold the keys to the Treasury Benches in their hands,

          In Epsom, the Labour/Green candidates hold a second set of keys to those Treasury Benches,

          It sounds a little bizarre doesn’t it, BUT, the truth is for Labour, losing Te Tai Tokerau and losing Waiariki along with ensuring National win Epsom will ultimately ensconce Labour firmly on the Treasury Benches,

          If David Cunliffe and Matt McCarten cannot see this and convince the Party of this then i for one will be a very unhappy camper for the next trimester…

          • The Al1en 4.1.1.2.1
            27 May 2014 at 10:53 am

            If political expediency is to be practice of the opposition, then surely it would make more sense to gift an electorate to NZ1st, rather than mess about with a 1% party, who would at best, bring 1 or 2 extra members to the house.

            • Clemgeopin 4.1.1.2.1.1
              27 May 2014 at 11:22 am

              Ha, ha, ha you are funny and a cunning misleading dicky to boot!

            • Tracey 4.1.1.2.1.2
              27 May 2014 at 3:22 pm

              you cant gift to nzf as long as the rule out declaring pre election allegiances. imo.

              labour needs to put parker in a different seat. how do ordinary labour voters not vote for their partys deputy leader.i

              • The Al1en …
                27 May 2014 at 5:49 pm

                Sure, that goes without saying, but from a practical point of view, ensuring Winston got a seat takes the possibility of 2008 happening again right out of the result equation.

                I wouldn’t ever vote NZ1st, but then I would do as Sue Bradford has and not have anything to do with dotcon either.
                Just saying, if gifting seats is to be the done thing, then you have to give wisely. If I were Labour and the Greens I’d have nothing to do with Hone’s dirty money, but then if you really look, it’s only the mana one percenters that see it as a good thing… Them and TV3’s news room that is.

                • Clemgeopin …
                  27 May 2014 at 8:25 pm

                  That Kim.Com’s is ‘dirty money’ is debatable.

                  In any case, what is to say for sure that the money coming from the donors of National and ACT is not ‘dirty money’ too?

            • basd12 4.1.1.2.1.3
              27 May 2014 at 4:01 pm

              Yes that is one hell of a Laugh Out Loud comment Alien, there is a big difference between NZFirst and InternetMana,

              It is this,”In the heads of agreement that the two parties have signed that form the rules of the alliance both parties agree NOT to support the National Party”,

              Now whats Winston’s position on this again???…

          • Bearded Git 4.1.1.2.2
            27 May 2014 at 11:01 am

            +100 Bad

          • Clemgeopin 4.1.1.2.3
            27 May 2014 at 11:25 am

            Well said. MMP calls for such pre-election pragmatic strategies. We are no longer in FPP.

          • Rosie 4.1.1.2.4
            27 May 2014 at 2:18 pm

            Well said bad. It would be tragic if the opportunity to promote tactical voting in edgy seats was lost, especially if it were through some pretence at adherence to “loyalty and morals”. It would be immoral not to! (see comment on Kohlberg’s theory of moral development on yesterday’s open mike – it’s about the post conventional level of morals: social contract and universal ethics).

            Besides, the Nat candidate for Ohariu, limpid ex sales rep, Brett Hudson has been honest, clear and upfront about only seeking the party vote, so game on I reckon.

            • basd12 4.1.1.2.4.1
              27 May 2014 at 3:30 pm

              Yep Rosie, i specifically didn’t mention Ohariu in my comment above, i seriously think the ‘blocks’ of votes from across the 3 Parties Labour/National and Dunne are two big to seriously expect a big enough tactical vote to oust Dunne via a vote for the National candidate,

              Labour are still if what David Cunliffe said on RadioNZ National news at 3 is the final word, still mired firmly in last centuries First past the Post system,

              Words to the effect that Kelvin Davis will be fully contesting the Te Tai Tokerau electorate and He,(Cunliffe), fully expects Davis to win, along with, ”Labour expects to take back all the Maori electorates,

              Go the Dinosaur Party, last centuries electorate tactics have little place in an MMP enviroment…

              • Rosie …
                27 May 2014 at 5:44 pm

                Agreed, re your scenario.

                Disappointing about Cunliffe’s stance though…………….

                Sigh.

          • [email protected] 4.1.1.2.5
            27 May 2014 at 2:54 pm

            Bad – have you been picking my brain while I’m sleeping. My thoughts exactly.
            Strategy, strategy, strategy! No point in ‘winning the battle’, only to have to concede the war.
            Think bold, outside the narrow vision.

          • Anne 4.1.1.2.6
            27 May 2014 at 3:19 pm

            Bad 12. I don’t think Parker is standing for Epsom this time. As I understand it, it is Michael Wood who is an up and coming young Labour star. Very intelligent and articulate.

            • Tracey 4.1.1.2.6.1
              27 May 2014 at 3:23 pm

              god I hope you are right.

            • basd12 4.1.1.2.6.2
              27 May 2014 at 3:37 pm

              Tah for that Anne, my bad for not keeping abreast with the ‘facts’, i assume after listening to Cunliffe on the radio this afternoon that the Labour candidate will also be ”fully contesting” Epsom for the electorate vote,

              Is this Labour strategy: ”wait for things to get so ugly for the masses under National that they have no choice but to vote for Labour”,

              Slippery the PM must be laughing fit to bust, The choir boy with high morals versus the Bankster with the mega-bucks campaign fund happily gerrymandering elections,

              Not a pretty sight…

        • Salsy 4.1.1.3
          27 May 2014 at 11:23 am

          So everything seems to be pointing at Shane Jones for the new leader of IP – Now that may be better for National than Labour, and certainly not good for the Greens..

      • Mary 4.1.2
        27 May 2014 at 10:17 am

        “The ”ball” i would suggest is now in Labour’s court, do they do whip the rug out from under National by advising its voters in Te Tai Tokerau to split their votes electorate in favor of Hone and Party in favor of Kelvin Davis,”

        Labour is too stupid to do anything as strategic as that. But hey! -that’s just the way Labour rolls!!!

      • Skinny 4.1.3
        27 May 2014 at 11:16 am

        No Labour voters will be voting for Davis and if Hone/Mana hook up with The Internet Party he may well be rolled. Labour may throw Mana a life line by candidate voting Annette Sykes in an attempt to remove Favell.

        Minto lost all cred’s by favouring an alliance between the 2 party’s, given TIP founder Kim DotBlob is so pro deregulation. I wonder if their party’s foundation policy will be removing copy right laws?

        • phillip ure 4.1.3.1
          27 May 2014 at 12:34 pm

          skinny..if davis gets a good list-placing..harawira can credibly argue that northland can get two mp’s for the price of one..

          ..and from the position of a mana party member..(who voted for this deal to go thru..)

          ..i can tell you that you cannot overestimate the degree of respect with which minto is afforded by mana party members..so you are wrong there..

          ..and..having taken part in one of those meetings that decided for this to go ahead..

          ..i can report that many who i saw initially opposed to this deal..

          ..are now able to see how this could well get us more mp’s into parliament..

          ..and that we should roll with it..

          ..which is why the voting was overwhelmingly in support of this alliance-lite deal going thru..

          ..this grouping of poverty/surveillance-smashing parties is the politics of the future..

          ..and the mood for change is here/upon us..

          ..both national and labour are what came before..

          ..and the greens seem stuck in a limbo between the two..

          ..and as for what support will this new grouping get on election day..?

          ..well..because a recent poll had the mix on 2.5%..(before any official announcement..)

          ..i don’t see it as unrealistic-expectation for a well-run/funded/innovative election-campaign/advertising..

          ..to add 4-5% to that total..

          ..in fact..i think i am being comservative..

          ..there is one historical fact not to forget..

          ..bob jones with his party..captured/rode the public appetite for change..

          ..and got 22% of the popular-vote..

          ..if this new grouping is clever enough in marketing their new brand/model of politics..

          ..and can catch that current mood for change..

          ..both labour and the greens should be very very nervous..

          • Rosie 4.1.3.1.1
            27 May 2014 at 2:28 pm

            phillip, it’s good to hear the view of a Mana member on this alliance and that the vote of the membership for the alliance was largely in favour – a good sign, I think.

            I’m over my initial sense of weirdness and apprehension at the prospect of of such an alliance and now see it as something fresh and hopeful. Modern stylez eh? To reflect a modern voter base. Onya’s.

          • Tracey 4.1.3.1.2
            27 May 2014 at 3:26 pm

            cunliffe ruled out effectively having kelvin just contest party vote.

    • Murray Olsen 4.2
      27 May 2014 at 7:39 pm

      Interesting like the Chinese curse. I think this is the beginning of the end for Mana as a worthwhile movement. There may be some temporary electoral success, but the contradiction between Maori workers and libertarian net nerds, half of whom think Hone is racist, will tear things apart.

  5. phillip ure 5
    27 May 2014 at 8:03 am

    and in weather/poverty news..like many others in my position..

    ..in new zealand..after 30 yrs of neo-lib/randite ‘evil’ dismantling of the welfare state…from both national and labour..

    (..and despite never having had my power disconnected for non-payment..being forced onto by supplier .. that rip-off-of-the-poor pre-paid electricity..(they make so much more profit from that..eh..?..

    ..and when the money runs out..?..pop..!..instant disconnection/darkness..)

    ..there is no way i can afford to run a heater..

    ..so i have to layer-up..

    ..and on this chilly morn..it’s thermal long-johns/thick tracks/thick socks on below..

    ..and t-shirt/thermal long-sleeved top/ thermal hoodie/thermal waistcoat/over-jacket..

    ..(i look like the fucken michelin-man..)

    ..and mittens with fingers cut out..(so i can type..)

    ..and a duvet wrapped around my legs..

    ..and i am one of the lucky ones..

    ..after several years of this..

    ..i am prepared..i have those layers to put on..

    ..and i get pretty angry when i think about all those others in my position unable to warm themselves..

    ..and those sleeping rough..(in this oh so rich country..)

    ..and those residents in christchurch..

    ..in their still..after all this time..broken/unrepaired homes..

    ..freezing their arses off..

    ..and i get even fucken angrier..

    • Tracey 5.1
      27 May 2014 at 8:30 am

      welcome to the brighter future phil.

      Whereabouts in nz are you living?

      • phillip ure 5.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 8:37 am

        that’s what i mean..!..i am in sub-tropical ak..!

        ..and the many poor in nz don’t only live in these (usually) benevolent climes..

        ..so it’s no ‘poor-me!’..

        ..’it’s more ‘poor them!’

        ..and then those sleeping-rough..who..funny story..!.. both the current mayors of wellington and ak promised to ‘help’/house ..at one time..when campaigning..

        ..and who since being elected..have both done sweet fuck all for..

        ..as i say..’in this oh so rich country’..

        ..thank you labour…thank you national..

        .for what 30 yrs of yr mis-rule has wrought..

        ..and good luck there labour..!

        ..with yr reaching out to the disposessed non-voters..

        ..with yr middle-class fretting about ‘affordable-homes’..

        ..eh..?

        ..and about ending that institutional/grinding-poverty..?

        ..that is the reality/day-to-day life of ‘the poor’..?

        ..like before…you are offering sweet-fuck-all..

        ..eh..?

        • Clemgeopin 5.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 9:36 am

          Well said Phil.

        • Skinny 5.1.1.2
          27 May 2014 at 11:35 am

          I hear you brother Phil, all be it sitting here feeling sorry for myself having taken a sickie suffering from man flu. However lucky for me I’m in the warm comfort of my lounge with my Kent fire blazing away. In the corner of my eye I see one of my lizards under his heat lamp adding to the coffers of the rich pricks who robbed us of our power assets.

          Even the charity stores put close to market rates on quality woolen clothing. Just goes to show the tentacles of the market have no boundaries in our capitalistic land of milk & honey!

          • phillip ure 5.1.1.2.1
            27 May 2014 at 1:20 pm

            don’t get me started on charity shops that start getting ideas above their station/role in life…

            ..and start to charge accordingly..

            • minarch 5.1.1.2.1.1
              27 May 2014 at 5:07 pm

              when did second hand become “vintage”…..

              when it meant the price goes up

              about the same time the “personnel dept” (actual people !) became the “human resources” (to be exploited) dept ?

            • greywarbler 5.1.1.2.1.2
              27 May 2014 at 7:10 pm

              I know all about prices rising in op shop.. It is the trend in the op shop I have been involved in. The workers are nearly all superannuitants and of course get a nice fortnightly cheque, not enough in some cases but definitely there without argy bargy. Their heads are all filled with memories of growing up in a different NZ. The news that people have had no wage rises or ones under the measured cpi inflation does not register, if they know someone who is hard up it can seem an individual difficulty. And the prices go up as if it was the old days with inflation bouncing along. If the garment has a clothing industry ‘label’ on it then they charge an extra $1 or $2 for it, and the condition may not even be good. But the talk goes, I think we can get more for this, when it is ordinary clothes needed for everyday. Just like a second hand charity shop. Which is not what I call true charity.

  6. Tracey 6
    27 May 2014 at 8:26 am

    Interestingly mrs banks testimony mirrored her husbands, exactly. No one calling it a fit up? Interesting comments she made about the “type” of people the dotcoms were and how they wouldnt give banks money. Of course they did, more than anyone else apparently, so she is not a great judge of people it seems.

    More interestingly was the former mp who gave evidence about how honest banks is. Seems ok til you recall

    He resigned as deputy speaker after illegally parking by aschool pedestrian crossing and trying to get the police commissioner to revoke the fine. So, his yardstick for integrity aint very high. Ian revell.

    Banks problem remains sky city.

    • phillip ure 6.1
      27 May 2014 at 8:30 am

      “..Banks problem remains sky city..”

      aye..!..the sky city evidence is far more precise/clinical/damming than the dotcom stuff..

      ..and just removes any uncertainties around the dotcom stuff..(not that there is much to be ‘uncertain’ about..)

      • Tracey 6.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 8:34 am

        i am still not clear if by not reading it before he signed it he LEGALLY cant have signed KNOWING it was false.

        The thing is, as i understand it, signing the form as being true and correct without reading it isnt the offence. It should be, cos otherwise the declaration is meaningless. I hope i am wrong, i truly do.

        • ianmac 6.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 9:16 am

          Yes it all hangs on that Tracey – I think. But if I sign any legal document (and now an email?) I am held to that. It cannot be that I cannot renege on a deal simply because I didn’t read the small print. Loan Sharks get great returns from such signage.

          • Clemgeopin 6.1.1.1.1
            27 May 2014 at 9:23 am

            May be they should play this in the court to clear things up all round.

          • Tracey 6.1.1.1.2
            27 May 2014 at 9:44 am

            yea but loan sharks have a contract. I am definitely agreeing signing a declaration that something is true and correct should matter. banks is heaping alot onto the guy who filled out the form but he could never know what banks received anonymously outside his presence if banks didnt tell him. I think that guy is being unfairly tainted by banks behaviour.

            not to bust to solicit money from all and sundry like a desperate whore but too busy to comply with responsibilities… thats mr banks.

            online stuff and herald act as tho a senior politician is not on trial for electoral fraud… cf with brown coverage.

        • bad12 6.1.1.2
          27 May 2014 at 9:59 am

          Yes Tracey, not having researched the question might have me commenting from a position of ”i thunk it therefore”, but, i have to assume that an electoral return of finances is an actual Statuary Declaration and as such those who sign such are legally responsible for what it contains no matter who filled it out or if those who sign such actually read its contents,

          Perhaps in the fine print of the Law, those who wrote it, politicians, gave themselves a little ”out” for just such ocassions…

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.3
          27 May 2014 at 11:10 am

          Banks might have been able to confuse a jury to the the extent they’d swallow his “I obeyed the letter of the law” defence but I hope the judge won’t be so lenient. It’s clear what Parliament’s intent is, unless you take the view that Parliament is a deeply cynical establishment. You or I might very well think that. The court will not.

        • Mary 6.1.1.4
          27 May 2014 at 2:14 pm

          The difference is that the issue Banks is facing is a criminal one so even if he signed it off as true and correct the offence still may not have been committed. This is as opposed to, for example, if the matter were a contractual one where signing something is generally binding, subject of course to specific exceptions/protections.

          • Tracey 6.1.1.4.1
            27 May 2014 at 3:33 pm

            the wording of the charge is crucial he has to have known it was not true and correct. his defence is by signing it without reading he never knew. couldnt know.

            hes called all his character witnesses. all swear on his abhorrence of deceit. yet he was ed of hujlich… took fees and didnt ask any questions… had a deal with key but didnt think the electorate should know what they said…. watched key mislead parliament… took dotcoms hong kong gift and upgrade…

            and with ian revell as a character referee… dame jenny gibbs… restauranteur wife of ” tony”… you wonder what passes for integrity in some circles…

            and lets not forget that honest john signed someghing as true and correct, he says, without reading it… = honest? integrity?

            hell in a handbasket peolle

            • Mary 6.1.1.4.1.1
              29 May 2014 at 10:13 pm

              “the wording of the charge is crucial he has to have known it was not true and correct. his defence is by signing it without reading he never knew. couldnt know.”

              Yes, precisely, but I can’t see a judge taking too kindly to statements from “character witnesses” as evidence in a criminal trial too well. If the defence feels it has to stoop to doing that my guess is that it knows it’s stuffed. Having said that, this is New Zealand where everyone knows everyone including the judiciary which means anything can happen.

  7. Philj 7
    27 May 2014 at 8:40 am

    xox
    Hilarious,on The panel, Jim Mora and Boag calls him out for talking ‘rubbish’! Three times in quick succession. Jim was forced to back down and had no chance against the National juggernaut. And Brian Edwards, deferred to the dragons flaming. Really funny. The power of the woman. Mora and Edwards had no chance. The program needs some balance if it’s not to become a joke.

    • Gosman 7.1
      27 May 2014 at 8:47 am

      Brian Edwards is not left wing enough for you then?

      • bad12 7.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 9:05 am

        Brian Edwards Gosman, in my opinion is not a leader, He is a follower, and, as such, has followed Labour as it departed its left wing roots into neo-liberalism and from there into the confining electoral space of chasing a small flake (5%), of the middle class vote which has been the election battleground for far too long now,

        As Labour have increasingly pandered to this over-coat changing slice of the middle class it has provided less and less for those further down the income scale,

        My belief is that Labour is still very much stuck in that space fighting for that small flake of the middle class vote and until it can snap out of this will continue to bleed the support of the low waged/low income demographic that was its traditional support base…

      • felix 7.1.2
        27 May 2014 at 9:07 am

        Brian Edwards is left wing? When did that happen?

        • Tracey 7.1.2.1
          27 May 2014 at 9:11 am

          how many left wing panelists on the panel or kathryn ryan have shouted down the host or the other commentator…

        • phillip ure 7.1.2.2
          27 May 2014 at 9:31 am

          @ felix..

          ..no no..it’s ‘left winging’…

          ..(i think it must have been a typo…the ‘ing’ being left off..)

          ..edwards winges about the concerns of herne bay residents..

          ..(oh how they suffer..!..the poor-darlings..!..)

          ..and the trials/travails of/from buying/selling multi-million dollar houses..

          ..these are the concerns/politics of ‘left wing'(ing) edwards..

        • Mary 7.1.2.3
          27 May 2014 at 10:07 am

          It’s an illusion created only when he’s on The Panel with Michelle Boag.

    • Paul 7.2
      27 May 2014 at 10:04 am

      Solution…turn it off and listen to some music.
      Much better for the blood pressure….

    • Mary 7.3
      27 May 2014 at 10:13 am

      “The power of the woman.”

      No, just a rude and arrogant and in my view ill-informed mouthpiece the lazy media go to for a talking head.

  8. captain hook 8
    27 May 2014 at 8:55 am

    what about you then gooseman?

  9. bad12 9
    27 May 2014 at 9:21 am

    Nanaia Mahuta quoted on RadioNZ National this morning, ”Maori home ownership is down to 22%”,

    Right Nanaia, that is the problem, where is the proposed solution from Labour???,

    i would suggest that in the other Labour heartland, the Pacifica-belt of South Auckland the figures for Pacifica peoples home ownership is even more dire than 22%,

    And herein lies Labour’s big ”Problem”, cannot Labour see that among its South Auckland vote the building of 10,000 ”affordable homes” goes down like a lead brick,

    Its Pacifica vote, mostly low waged, the first to be fired and the last to be hired will never be able to ”afford” one of these 10,000 homes,(unless Labour adopts the Green party variable mortgage payment policy),

    This is the same for Labour’s Maori heartland, an ”affordable home” in the provinces is obviously going to be less costly than one in Auckland but a bank mortgage will never address the issues of Maori employment where as like the Pacifica people Maori are the first to be fired and the last to be hired when the financial poo becomes entangled in the ventilation system,

    The 10,000 affordable homes policy, no matter what it actually is, is perceived in the wider electorate as homes for the middle class, Labour need to come up with additional policy that directly addresses that perception,

    And fast…

    • Tracey 9.1
      27 May 2014 at 9:47 am

      reactive not proactive…

      thats why

      look elsewhere for ideas to address real problems by people who bother to get shoulder to shoulder with real life in nz for so many

    • DH 9.2
      27 May 2014 at 10:25 am

      “Labour need to come up with additional policy that directly addresses that perception,”

      I agree with that. Kiwis in general are still a pretty egalitarian bunch but the middle class voter won’t give up their own lifestyle for the poor. Labour look to have decided they can’t win votes if they lower property values so their solution to the housing problem is raising incomes. On paper it sounds ok but we’ve been there, done that. It hasn’t worked yet & people are getting a bit jaded with the same old. What we really need is some creative thinking; do something different that people can get excited about.

      There’s plenty of options, it’s not as if the problem is insurmountable. They could capitalise accommodation supplements into a large deposit for a home, presently that annual $1.2 billion plus supplement is just pissed against the wall for no economic return. At existing Govt borrowing rates $100 per week pays the interest on a $130,000 loan. The Govt could retain title to the section or strata title until the loan is paid back.

      Another option is for the Govt to create a new housing market for low income earners. The state buys the land, leases it at peppercorn rates to the home buyer who builds their own dwelling. The lease itself should act as the security for the loan to build the dwelling.

      It’s only the price of land that makes houses unaffordable, and only the inability to come up with a deposit that stops those who can afford a mortgage. So remove land from the equation and use it as the deposit. It’s not rocket science.

      • Olwyn 9.2.1
        27 May 2014 at 11:09 am

        joe90 put this comment up yesterday, with a link to the NY Times, in which the term “hedge cities” is suggested for cities in which the international rich park their money.

        Open mike 26/05/2014

        The author of the linked article suggests charging these people “parking fees,” but this doesn’t offer a solution as to where the locals are to live, or how they might attain housing security. The whole business looks like a basis for huge tension between people who need houses as dwellings and people who see them as poker chips in an international casino. And huge problems for governments who do not want to bring down their economies, but who do need to ensure that people are housed. Not only that, it has such potential to suck the life out of an economy that those with property really do become dependent on its putative “value”, and not just bewitched by the numbers.

        • fender 9.2.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 11:23 am

          Charge overseas speculators an extra 50% of the property value, then invest this “parking fee” in building social housing!

          • Olwyn 9.2.1.1.1
            27 May 2014 at 12:39 pm

            Yes, it could also be a way of getting some of the funds needed to rebuild the local economy. But I do have an aversion to the term “social housing” – it suggests that a house is a poker chip first and a dwelling second.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.2.2
        27 May 2014 at 12:47 pm

        Creative but a waste of time. Just have the government build enough state houses that come with a lifetime lease. People get affordable living and get to be part of the community.

    • Skinny 9.3
      27 May 2014 at 12:04 pm

      Bad 12

      I suggest if you want policy results from Nanaia Mahuta take a pad and pen on any given Friday to a certain Hamilton yum cha restaurant. I kid you not every time my side kick and me treated ourselves low and behold who is in the house lol.

      • basd12 9.3.1
        27 May 2014 at 3:49 pm

        Lolz Skinny, if i still had my house-truck i might just take you up on that, but alas, i am earth bound in Wellington at the moment,

        Do i detect a small modicum of criticism of Nanaia in your comment Lol, can’t be right, you being there as many times as She,

        Yeah the point of my comment about what Nanaia was saying on radio this morning was in the vein of ”She had the airtime to point out the low rate of Maori home ownership,(abysmal at 22%), but She didn’t have the policy to announce about what Labour intend to do about this”,

        As i point out above, Maori like everybody else need ’employment prospects’ that will ladst 40 odd years to be able to sign up to ‘Kiwibuild’, increasingly rotational employment would suggest that that aint going to happen…

  10. Mary 10
    27 May 2014 at 10:19 am

    Will the opposition try to skewer key in the House today on his blatant lies about how Fletcher was appointed?

    • Paul 10.1
      27 May 2014 at 10:29 am

      If they do the speaker will probably eject them…or allow Key not to answer the question.

  12. Ron 12
    27 May 2014 at 10:47 am

    Just reading today’s The Spectator LabourList which can be read here LabourList which says some things that are applicable to NZ Labour in my opinion

    Some key points:
    Understand what makes people vote UKIP This means, in part, understanding concerns about Europe and immigration

    Be positive: The way to win over those who believe that all politicians are the same is not to run a negative campaign attacking politicians

    Door knocking is important – but it doesn’t win seats on its own

    Listening to the polls that matter

    All these items have relevance to NZ situation so read article and comment.

    • fender 13.1
      27 May 2014 at 11:17 am

      Oh dear….

      Did you read beyond the headline lumpy?

      Mr Keenan is a NZ citizen, not an overseas speculator!

      • grumpy 13.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 11:21 am

        So are many of the Chinese house buyers Labour are complaining about. but he is also a Cunliffe donor…..

        • fender 13.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 11:35 am

          “So are many of the Chinese house buyers Labour are complaining about”

          You need to pay attention. It’s overseas “investors” Labour are talking about, these people aren’t NZ citizens.

          • grumpy 13.1.1.1.1
            27 May 2014 at 11:49 am

            OK, fair enough – but he’s a “rich prick” working for the Boston Consulting Group – and a campaign donor for Cunliffe.

            • fender 13.1.1.1.1.1
              27 May 2014 at 12:14 pm

              Yeah he donated money towards Cunliffes leadership campaign..

              Maybe one day when you ditch the grumpy persona you may gain a friend or two, and then you may learn what friendship is about.

            • framu 13.1.1.1.1.2
              27 May 2014 at 12:16 pm

              which is utterly irrelevant and is just you desperately hanging onto your attempted slur even though its fallen over

    • phillip ure 13.2
      27 May 2014 at 12:08 pm

      that is one sad/shallow beat-up…

      (tho..i do think..that like with raising the pension-age..

      ..that labour are on the wrong foot with immigration..

      ..and them becoming winston-peters-lite on the subject..

      ..is actually quite unedifying to watch..

      ..(and the anti-asian thread running thru it..doesn’t help that ew!-perception..)

      ..and i know that most i vote with wouldn’t agree with me on this..

      ..but i can’t get past the fact that the japanese know of/call nz ‘the empty islands’..

      ..we are so far from being over-populated..(and with our seriously under-populated/stagnating provincial-centres…)

      ..it is ridiculous to make any claims that ‘we have no room’..(go and drive around this country..see how ’empty’ it really is..)

      ..i put that together with our miserable/shaming levels of refugee-acceptance..(750 a year..?..)

      ..(and we often don’t even make that quota..!..)

      ..and all of that leads me to a desire to seriously upgrade the numbers of refugees we offer new homes/lives to..

      ..and to relax our immigration-hurdles to a serious degree..

      ..(and this can be done in conjunction with stopping bus-loads of australian ‘investors’..

      ..cruising around auckland..and buying a brace of homes each..)

      ..and as for immigrants ‘changing’ our lives..i feel they change our lives for the better..

      ..auckland has only become an interesting city by the threading of asian/p.i/dutch/dalmatian/immigrant-cultures..

      ..with the white/working-class english/scots/irish/welsh immigration that prevailed ..

      ..up until the dutch started arriving..

      ..as the first wave of change..

      ..(and of course..at that time maori/maori-culture was mainly rural..

      ..so those working class celts/english pretty much had it to themselves..)

      ..who would want to go back to that..?..(shudder..!..)

      ..and further multi-cultural/nationalities/immigrant populations will only add to the richness/wealth of the new zealand culture/life..

  14. captain hook 14
    27 May 2014 at 11:09 am

    thats bullshit grumpy.
    why dont you speak for yourself?
    stop peddling that crap from the flacks at the auckland rag.

    • grumpy 14.1
      27 May 2014 at 11:20 am

      Looks pretty suss to me (and NZ Herald). Cunliffe “helps out” a major overseas based donor while ranting about overseas buyers pushing up housing prices. Imagine if John Key had done that!

      • fender 14.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 11:44 am

        A NZer living overseas wants to buy a house in his own country and you think it looks “suss”.

        You must be livid with the corrupt practices of Judith Collins then.

        Can you quote the passage that shows the NZ Herald find it “suss”…..please….

      • framu 14.1.2
        27 May 2014 at 12:19 pm

        serious question grumpy – in what capacity did cunliffe help his friend and what did he do?

        if youve got a claim that cunliffe used his position as an MP to help with the purchase, and/or the rules were broken re: real estate sales, then lets hear it – because thats the only complaint that could be made

  15. yeshe 15
    27 May 2014 at 11:23 am

    It’s just arrived and I haven’t read it yet, but here is Memorandum of Understanding twixt Mana and Internet Party .. here we go !

    https://internet.org.nz/news/31

  16. just saying 16
    27 May 2014 at 1:54 pm

    Missing Rogue Trooper these days.

    So anyway, this is for others enjoying a delicious, sunny, indolent snow day.

    Nick Cave “Fifteen Feet of pure white Snow” Enjoy.

  17. Mary 17
    27 May 2014 at 2:34 pm

    David Cunliffe asking questions in the House again that don’t demand an answer and Carter again giving Key free rein to say what he wants. Meanwhile, Metiria Turei asking proper questions Key is forced to answer properly, whether correctly or not but putting him on record in relation to real issues. When will Cunliffe learn how to use the questions for oral answer properly? So dumb.

    • Tracey 17.1
      27 May 2014 at 3:38 pm

      it wont happen but for the left to get true representation in nz greens need more vote than labour. labour acts like a party of entitlement. they behave like its fpp… cosying up to nzf and not conceding some seats.

      seemingly to labour if they cant be dominant they are happy to inflict another 3 years of national on the nation.

  18. basd12 18
    27 May 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Good afternoon Mods, every comment of mine made this arvo has gone into moderation, is there a specific reason???,

    If a comment today has been in any way offensive can i have a hint which one???…

    [It is your name. Correct it and all should be fine – MS]

    • bad12 18.1
      27 May 2014 at 6:43 pm

      Lolz, thanks MS, i win the dumby of the day award, my stubby fat little fingers weren’t made for typing and i managed to hit the s at the same time i hit the d..

      • Clemgeopin 18.1.1
        27 May 2014 at 8:28 pm

        Ah, that explains it! I was wondering why you were leaving out the ‘tar’ before the d!

        • bad12 18.1.1.1
          27 May 2014 at 8:54 pm

          Ah, your comment explains why i have never had to wonder why you lack any skin on your knuckles…

  19. Paul 19
    27 May 2014 at 6:22 pm

    The 1% support the banks’ heist of the economy in 2008 and think they saved the world
    Well, that was worth knowing, NZ Herald.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11262214

  20. karol 20
    27 May 2014 at 8:11 pm

    For those who haven’t already seen it, there’s a re-run of The Shock Doctrine coming up on Maori TV at 8.30pm tonight.

  21. Paul 21
    27 May 2014 at 9:18 pm

    This is what happens when you privatise public resources…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11262808

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