Open mike 27/09/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 27th, 2012 - 126 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

126 comments on “Open mike 27/09/2012 ”

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  1. Bored 1
    27 September 2012 at 6:20 am

    If you want to know what is happening ask a taxi driver…..Max Keiser does in the funniest clip for a while. The man is on fire with justifiable rage against the kleptocrats, John Key needs to ride with this man.

  2. tc 2
    27 September 2012 at 7:24 am

    Notice this ‘Give us our waterfront campaign’ getting column inches in grannyoid….who are these people?
    Coincidental timing with POAL refusing OI requests, gov’t not interested in allowing citizens to see details on the assets they own etc etc
    Also Crusher getting ‘tough’ on parole hearings with the mother of murdered girl woodman some years back in wellington being put out their by the media.

    Divert, delay, distract, dogwhistle they’ve got it all going on.

    And could the opposition ask a direct question on the last day of parliament please…..FFS enough material to light a bonfire and those clowns can’t even get a BBQ underway.

    • karol 2.1
      27 September 2012 at 7:41 am

      I don’t know, tc.

      It’s simmering away, and Granny reports some hits from the opposition in the House yesterday:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836791

      Key on the back foot as Opposition leaders twist knife
      By Adam Bennett
      5:30 AM Thursday Sep 27, 2012

      Mr Key appeared to become confused when asked by NZ First leader Winston Peters when his chief of staff was first told of the Ministerial Certificate issued in Mr Key’s absence last month by his deputy Bill English.

      Mr English issued the certificate to prevent details of the GCSB’s involvement in the Dotcom case emerging in court.

      “I do not exactly know, but to the best of my knowledge it was on Monday the 17th when I knew,” Mr Key said. He later returned to the House and made a personal statement saying it was only this week that he learned of the document.

      Labour deputy leader Grant Robertson last night said Mr Key “looked incredibly uncertain” in answering questions about the involvement in the Dotcom case by organisations of which he had oversight.

    • RedBlooded 2.2
      27 September 2012 at 7:47 am

      Also not so sure tc. Just watched replay of question time and with ShonKey getting so frustrated he starts blaspheming (Colin Craig will be clutching his pearls with disgrace) seems to me they are having quiet a success at scraping off the Teflon.

    • Red Rosa 2.3
      27 September 2012 at 7:49 am

      Opposition? A few minor items from the Dotcom saga to begin with…police apparently lying under oath…’misstatements’ from PM & deputy…US influence in NZ…but will we see any pointed questions from Labour on all this?

      • Te Reo Putake 2.3.1
        27 September 2012 at 8:03 am

        None so blind, etc.
         
        Labour, and the other opposition parties have had a great couple of days poking the borax at National in the house and in the media. If you haven’t noticed, that’s not their problem, RR, its yours.
         
        ‘But Labour, wah wah …’ is getting pretty tired, particularly when polling such as the latest Roy Morgan shows they are on track to lead the next Government.

        • blue leopard 2.3.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 12:11 pm

          Opposition have had a great couple of days and yet I still hear Mr Key get away with saying
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          “There is insufficient evidence”
          and I don’t hear any objection. I don’t hear the question posed “….of what”

          He is just allowed to go on his merry way confusing the issue and transmitting his spin.

          Mr Key and other National members get to grandstand for minutes on end
          Where is the objection to this?

          It is obvious when he is about to do it.
          Why do the opposition not cut him off with an objection?

          This is now a public channel and I consistently see National getting unreasonable airtime for their half-baked notions and spin tactics. I am sorry that our opposition don’t appear to factor in the powerful effect of spin because it makes me furious every time this Government gets time to grandstand in the way they regularly do in parliament when there are sound rules in place to disallow this.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.2
          27 September 2012 at 12:14 pm

          …is getting pretty tired, particularly when polling such as the latest Roy Morgan shows they are on track to lead the next Government.

          So far, only by default and not because they’ve become any more palatable.

        • muzza 2.3.1.3
          27 September 2012 at 1:40 pm

          Voice – And what will Labour do that is any different if they are at the wheel…

          Other than provide a platform for you to use your pom poms, leading the cheering team!

          Gimme a

          N O T H I N G

          • blue leopard 2.3.1.3.1
            27 September 2012 at 4:36 pm

            There is insufficient evidence for your comment Muzza

            • muzza 2.3.1.3.1.1
              27 September 2012 at 4:42 pm

              40 years of NZ economic decline, regardless of government you mean!

              Oh, you were being sarcastic…

              • blue leopard …
                27 September 2012 at 4:58 pm

                @ Muzza,

                no…I wasn’t being sarky…can see why you thought I was though and there was a little facetiousness involved in employing our Prime Spin Junkie’s favourite saying…

                Thanks, your comment makes more sense now that you’ve mentioned the decline.

                I am a tad averse to anyone mentioning all Governments are the same because this may be so for the middle section of NZers, but in the least economically endowed the different Governments make quite a bit of difference (or even a small difference means a lot when one doesn’t have much)…also a different atmosphere when we have smug contemptuous types in charge…also tend to hear …and therefore there is no point in voting after it…which admittedly is a serious condition…hearing voices and all….

                • muzza …
                  27 September 2012 at 5:44 pm

                  BL – My original response was aimed at TRP…

                  Take your point though about those at the very bottom, and the differences that even a slower journey with the same co-ordinates could make for them.

                  If only the middle would stop to think that they too are in the firing line, just a little further along the schedule. If they understood this, then they would be not be pouring scorn on those less off, and they would certainly not be backing the corporate takeover we in NZ are laying witness to.

                  Cheers

                  • blue leopard …
                    27 September 2012 at 7:38 pm

                    “If only the middle would stop to think that they too are in the firing line, just a little further along the schedule. If they understood this, then they would be not be pouring scorn on those less off, and they would certainly not be backing the corporate takeover we in NZ are laying witness to.”

                    I second that-thoroughly agree. If they would think about direction rather than here and now, or look at what has happened to America (as I understand it there are many who used to be comfortably off now sharing houses or without a house at all).

  3. yeshe 3
    27 September 2012 at 8:04 am

    please take a moment to sign this to protect Marlborough Sounds … urgent today if you will, please …

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/The_Sounds_are_for_All_say_NO_to_nine_new_salmon_farms/?bpyhmab&v=18238

  4. K 4
    27 September 2012 at 8:04 am

    And…needing a distraction from the Kim Dotcom circus the government makes an announcement around welfare recipients. This one is a little weaker than usual. Guess what? MSD is now information sharing with the IRD. Not the best distraction. Perhaps half a million in fireworks would distract the media pack better than the few beneficiaries (and how many is that exactly? 1%? 20%? Perhaps half?) who exploit the system.

  5. mickysavage 5
    27 September 2012 at 8:10 am

    The latest Roy Morgan poll is out.

    National is down 3% to 43.5%, Labour up 2 to 33%.  Greens are down slightly to 11.5%.

    The trend is in the right direction.

    The impression that National is on that long slippery slope to defeat is growing stronger … 

    • weka 5.1
      27 September 2012 at 8:34 am

      The balance of power is still with the MP and NZF 🙁

    • Te Reo Putake 5.2
      27 September 2012 at 8:44 am

      I did a quick run through of the numbers yesterday and it ends up, assuming ACT, UF and the MP all retain their current electorate seats, with the Gov’t 58 vs Lab/Greens 55. Winston has 6 seats. So a L/G/NZF coalition would have a reasonable majority. However, if Labour cuts Nationals direct lead over them by a further 2 pts (ie down to a single figure gap), then Winston becomes less relevant and a minority Lab/Green Gov’t is just as likely an outcome.
       
      This poll heaps real pressure on the Maori party, who need to be in Government to be effective. Mana get two seats, btw.

      • weka 5.2.1
        27 September 2012 at 9:15 am

        “So a L/G/NZF coalition would have a reasonable majority.”

         
        Am I the only person who remembers Winston Peters categorically refusing to be part of any government that included the Greens. Is there any evidence that this has changed? 

        Even if NZF were willing, it’s pretty hard to see how that could work. 

        • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 9:21 am

          He did say that he wouldn’t work with the Greens, either in 2002 or 2005, but things have moved on since then. I imagine 3 years in the wilderness may have changed Winston’s stance a little and the Greens are not the same party either in terms of both policy and leadership. And I note Key has switched from ruling NZF out 4 years ago to realizing he won’t be PM without them, so its clearly a dynamic situation!

          • weka 5.2.1.1.1
            27 September 2012 at 9:24 am

            How do you see a L/G/NZF government working?

            • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1.1.1
              27 September 2012 at 9:41 am

              Awkwardly!
               
              I think Shearer will have his work cut out keeping unity, but its worth remembering that’s the work he used to do in his earlier job. As long as he can stop them stepping on each other’s toes, then it’s got a chance of success. Giving WP his old Foreign Minister role should keep him happy (and out of the country for long periods). A couple of other NZFers will need associate roles, too. Defence? Revenue?
               
              The Greens would be looking for senior roles, though not the Deputy PM’s job I think, because of the shared leadership system they have. It would cut across that to have one of the two leaders in a clearly senior role to the other. Environment, Education, Social Develeopment?
               
              Labour will want total control over the checkbook and the affairs of state, of course. 
               
              And, as I suggested yesterday, I wouldn’t rule out the Maori Party making a pitch to be in the Shearer waka, too. That might give Shearer just enough votes to form a minority Government without Winston or at least play hard ball with him in the negotiations.
               
              One other option that is almost viable on the Roy Morgan numbers is L/G/Mana. The most left wing Government since the Alliance fell apart!

              • Dr Terry …
                27 September 2012 at 10:08 am

                TRP – Your assumption that Shearer will be the Leader bothers me, and I suspect, a good many others.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  27 September 2012 at 10:16 am

                  A bitter pill for you to swallow, Doc? As long as the numbers stay good, Shearer’s home and hosed, so best get used to it.

                  • Professor Longhair …
                    27 September 2012 at 12:32 pm

                    Sleepwalking to victory. I’m not entirely convinced about that as a Labour Party tactic.

                    What’s needed right now with this massive scandal involving Messrs Key and English and a perjuring policeman, is decisive, resolute leadership. We are seeing that from Mr Kim Dotcom, who is without a doubt the most impressive and lucid speaker involved in this scandal.

                    The official Leader of the Opposition, on the other hand, when interviewed on the radio yesterday, began by saying: “Ummmmm…”

                  • prism …
                    27 September 2012 at 12:47 pm

                    Te Reo Putake
                    Does this mean in English ‘Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings’?

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      27 September 2012 at 12:53 pm

                      Sorry, Prism, does what mean ‘out of the mouths’ etc?

                    • Jokerman …
                      27 September 2012 at 1:22 pm

                      it was Dylan, off Empire Burlesque (appropriate title)

                    • prism …
                      27 September 2012 at 2:08 pm

                      TRP
                      I tried to get meaning of putake and looked up the Maori Dictionary on google and it seems the ‘source’ is one of its variants. I thought then that you might be referring to the pure source of reason and truth in the language, and what’s purer and less unsullied than what comes out of the mouths of babes.
                      Perhaps what you say about Shearer comes from this direct source to truth and wisdom?

                      Bit convoluted eh. I think it would be simpler to ask what does your pseudonym means?

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      27 September 2012 at 3:37 pm

                      I switched from ‘The Voice of Reason’ on Waitangi day. TVOR was confusing people, who didn’t get the joke, so I thought I’d celebrate the day by changing to the maori translation. I wasn’t alone, ‘one anonymous bloke’ became ‘kotahi tane huna’ at the same time. We’ve both been accused of being the blogging equivalent of bl00dy maaris by knuckle draggers since then!

                    • Kotahi Tāne Huna …
                      27 September 2012 at 3:46 pm

                      I considered changing mine to the NZ sign equivalent too, until it occurred to me that people who sign don’t have a problem with reading 🙂

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      27 September 2012 at 3:52 pm

                      ps, prism, you’re not alone in trying to work out the meaning. Check out my stalker! 🙄

                      (it’s the maori language post, not the go at Micky S. Tellingly, Pete knew what the correct translation was when he wrote the post, but he pretended otherwise)

                    • weka …
                      27 September 2012 at 8:22 pm

                      Jeeze, link warning please!

            • weka 5.2.1.1.1.2
              27 September 2012 at 9:44 am

              r0b has a post up about NZF/Nats here

              http://thestandard.org.nz/key-peters-2014/ 

      • Lanthanide 5.2.2
        27 September 2012 at 12:24 pm

        How does Mana get 2 seats?

        My understanding of the MMP review is that if National does change the law, the changes will be in place for the 2014 election. One of the proposals is the abolishment of electorate coat-tailing. So unless you can show that Mana is going to win 2 electorate seats, I don’t think it’s wise to suggest they’ll get 2 seats.

        • Te Reo Putake 5.2.2.1
          27 September 2012 at 12:48 pm

          If they win Hone’s electorate seat and gain 1.5% of the party vote, they will be allocated another seat, whcih will be an overhang, bringing the total number of MP’s to 121.
           
          That’s the situation now, Lanth, under current law, and that’s what I based my comment on. Yes, it may change, but my analysis is based on currently known facts. I’ve also assumed that the MP, ACT and UF will retain their 5 seats for the same reason. That is also a future unknown, but its the current fact.

    • ScottGN 5.3
      27 September 2012 at 8:44 am

      Polling was from 10-23rd September so covered the Banks donation scandal but none of the Dotcom spying scandal. Next Roy Morgan will be interesting, often the Govt suffers a dip only to recover in the next poll? But another poll that suggests a centre left coalition at the next election is good news.

      • lprent 5.3.1
        27 September 2012 at 11:43 am

        Full effect is unlikely to be fully through until late October. I’ve observed on average about a 6 week delay between events and when they start hitting the Morgan polls.

    • millsy 5.4
      27 September 2012 at 10:09 am

      One is reminded of the England Rugby team doing a lap of honour at Old Trafford after being beaten 25-8 by the All Blacks back in 1997.

      A L/G government may be a possility, but it is only a mathematical one. The gap between Labour and National is still very large. Were there an election held today, National will still win comfortably, and even if L/G manged to cobble together a coalition, it would be undermined at every corner by the opposition, business and the like. Past (and present) Labor governments with precarious majorites in Australia are a glaring example.

      • Lanthanide 5.4.1
        27 September 2012 at 12:23 pm

        If an election were held today, the published poll results would probably look different than what we have.

        It’s rather a silly fiction to imagine that the poll results are what parliament would be like if the election had been held.

        • muzza 5.4.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 1:58 pm

          If an election were held today, the published poll results would probably look different than what we have.

          It’s rather a silly fiction to imagine that the poll results are what parliament would be like if the election had been held.

          Correct, it is a game played by the media, because its a mornic distraction, brought into by simple people!

          Waste of Time and Energy!

      • Professor Longhair 5.4.2
        27 September 2012 at 12:39 pm

        “One is reminded of the England Rugby team doing a lap of honour at Old Trafford after being beaten 25-8 by the All Blacks back in 1997.”

        That actually embarrassed many of the England players and supporters. The ridiculous “losers’ lap of honour” sprang from the fertile mind of the egregious Clive Woodward.

        Years later, he foisted the disgraced war criminal Alistair Campbell on the British and Irish Lions as a “manager” for their disastrous 2005 tour of New Zealand. Some of the Irish players in particular were incensed by this, and on one memorable occasion de-bagged the bullying creep in front of the whole team.

  6. captain hook 6
    27 September 2012 at 8:25 am

    so when is len brwon going to fire the ports of auckland management and get some proper government servants in to do the job?

  7. Herodotus 7
    27 September 2012 at 8:27 am

    To me the NZ government appears to be running out of money. Within the last 6 months I have experienced 3 GST refunds being withheld beyond the 20 day period, and when I contacted them the payments were released that day. Other large businesses I have contact with, with also large GST refunds $250k+ are experiencing the same. On making contact the refunds are released. No reasons given for the delay. If we are late there is an immediate penalty 10% then normal penalty rates. When the IRD are late a 2% p.a. interest applies.

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      27 September 2012 at 8:41 am

      the House always wins mate.

    • vto 7.2
      27 September 2012 at 9:08 am

      Interesting Herodotus. Exact same whispers and non / delayed payments have been around last few months with EQC and other government organisations in Christchurch.

      Smoke and fire ……..

      Many of us here in Chch fully expect that if/when the final global financial meltdown hits soon all work and money expected for the rebuild here will stop dead.

      Best head west …….. at least there is plenty food, water, shelter and wood. Imagine being in the middle of one of our cities when the shit hits the fan and the supermarkets last a single day. Wouldn’t wanna be a nearby farmer no…

      • muzza 7.2.1
        27 September 2012 at 5:55 pm

        VTO – I don’t reckon there is any intention of rebuilding, because if that were the intention there would be some proof of it by now!

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.2
        27 September 2012 at 6:17 pm

        Wouldn’t wanna be a nearby farmer no…

        Nah no fuss. That’s what you have your .223, your dogs, good neighbours all around looking out for you, and your extended family on the farm for.

  8. Jokerman 8
    27 September 2012 at 9:29 am

    Neo-Darwinian biologists and evolutionary psychologists have focused on the self, the, I, . I, is what passes genes on to the next generation, what engages in “reciprocal” altruism, the seemingly selfless behaviour that actually serves self-centred ends. The market is about the choosing, I, The economy is about the consuming , I, The Liberal Democratic (finger down throat) is about the voting, I. Yet, I, is lonely. I, is bad at relationships, in a world of , I’s, marriages do not last. Communities erode. Loyalty is devalued. Trust grows thin, John.

    Einstein famously said, “Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind”.

    Islam, one of the three Abrahamic monotheistic faiths, spread faster and wider than any religious movement in the lifetime of it’s founder, endowing the world with imperishable masterpieces of philosophy, poetry, architecture and art, as well as a faith seemingly immune to secularisation or decay.

    Don Brash, Bob Parker, (take your pick); “on the surface he’s profound, but deep down he’s superficial”.

    To paraphrase Wittgenstein, ” The meaning of the system lies outside the system. Therefore, the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe”.

    If we are free, then history is not a matter of eternal recurrences. As we can change ourselves,
    (see learning Revolution) we can change the world. That is the religious basis of hope.

    There are cultures that do not share monotheistic beliefs. They are ultimately, Tragic cultures, for whatever shape they give the powers that they name, these powers are fundamentally indifferent to human fate.
    They may be natural forces, human institutions: the empire, the state, the political system or the economy.
    They may be human collectivities: the tribe, the nation the race.
    Yet, all end in tragedy, because none attaches ultimate significance to the individual as individual.
    All end by sacrificing the individual, which is why, in the end, such cultures die.

    There is only one thing capable of defeating tragedy, which is the belief in God, who in Love, sets his image on the human person, thus endowing each of us with non-negotiable, unconditional
    Human Dignity. -from Jonathan Sacks

    1 John 4: 16. God is Love. Whoever lives in Love lives in God and God in (them).

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Dr Terry 8.1
      27 September 2012 at 10:13 am

      Jokerman – a noble, and probably true statement at the end. I would like to believe it, but how many Government members do you think truly “live in God”? (No comment on God living in them).

    • kiwi_prometheus 8.2
      27 September 2012 at 10:56 am

      Democracy and its values of social justice are not based on the Bible.

      It is all based on Humanist philosophy.

      I’m suspicious of your Einstein quote.

      Here’s what he wrote in a letter auctioned recently at Bloomsbury, in a reply to a philosopher mate:

      “The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

      “For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.”

      As for your unctuous bible quote:

      “1 John 4: 16. God is Love. Whoever lives in Love lives in God and God in (them).”

      Love isn’t an argument. Love is a force – it can go in all directions. The Nazis loved their nation, look what they were willing to do to “protect the Fatherland”.

      • Jokerman 8.2.1
        27 September 2012 at 1:38 pm

        interesting. unctuous indeed. not a ‘follower’ of Plato or his neo-platonic derivatives; more a Pythagorean.
        Sacks suggests the shortcomings following the transliteration of semitic script (written right to left) upon introduction to the Greeks ( evolving to “from left to right”), the introduction of vowels and the implications of both for the dominance of cerebral hemispheres in cultural transmission / development.

        agape’

      • Jokerman 8.2.2
        27 September 2012 at 3:47 pm

        Further more,
        Simon Baron-Cohen (cousin of Sacha, believe it, or not!)
        –
        Autism-3/4 are boys
        Aspergers-males to females; 10-1

        Autism-marked by features suggesting diminished right- hemisphere abilities;
        -lack of ability to empathise
        -low on social skills
        -difficulties in making eye contact
        -or stare too long
        -often good at Mechanical (repetitive) tasks, mathematics or
        -memorising lists
        -foreign words
        -can be obsessional
        -do not understand irony, humour or ambiguity
        -tend to treat people as objects
        -have difficulty in developing a first-person perspective
        -and a self-image

        Baron-Cohens Theory? that autism is a condition of hyper-maleness!!!

        Hans Asperger and Baron-Cohens theses; that female brain predominantly hard-wired for empathy, male brain for systemising.
        -empathisers and systemisers have sharply different skills
        – in particular, empathisers relate to people, systemisers to things
        (see Carol Gilligan on gender and moral reasoning) or Pinker, “The Blank Slate” on vocational preferences)

        Then, there is Jerome Bruner , “Actual Minds, Possible Worlds”, on the difference between two types of mental construction: argument and narrative; point Bruner makes, that narrative is central to human construction of meaning, meaning what makes human condition human.
        (see logotherapy)

        I could go on… but i gonna read the local paper (check out Bronfenbrenner)

        Next? 🙂

    • just saying 8.3
      27 September 2012 at 11:52 am

      There are cultures that do not share monotheistic beliefs. They are ultimately, Tragic cultures, for whatever shape they give the powers that they name, these powers are fundamentally indifferent to human fate.
      They may be natural forces, human institutions: the empire, the state, the political system or the economy.
      They may be human collectivities: the tribe, the nation the race.
      Yet, all end in tragedy, because none attaches ultimate significance to the individual as individual.
      All end by sacrificing the individual, which is why, in the end, such cultures die.

      Evidence, links etc. please.
      Remembering extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence….

      • Bored 8.3.1
        27 September 2012 at 4:01 pm

        JS I don’t think these are “extraordinary” claims. They seem to me fairly commonplace in the literature. The claim of tragic beliefs made me think of the Greek gods who were fundamentally indifferent to what impact they had on man. The monotheistic God (Jehovah, Allah) has an intimate interest, he created man in his image (or is it the other other way around)????

        All good fun, Jokerman might spend a little long with his nose in a volume of Jung methinks.

        • Jokerman 8.3.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 6:54 pm

          nope. not into archetypes and “shadows”; light and darkness, although, An answer to Job awaits,
          🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 8.4
      27 September 2012 at 1:00 pm

      There is only one thing capable of defeating tragedy, which is the belief in God,

      From what I’m seeing the biggest threat to humankind and the rest of the world is a belief in god.

      • muzza 8.4.1
        27 September 2012 at 2:05 pm

        From what I’m seeing the biggest threat to humankind and the rest of the world is a belief in god.

        No – Thats just what the crew who are pulling the strings want you to think.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.4.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 6:11 pm

          Could be that too but the number of people who seemingly vote for candidates because of the expressed religion of that candidates does seem to be very high.

          • muzza 8.4.1.1.1
            28 September 2012 at 7:54 am

            Seems to me that in order to suck people, in the puppets have to reference religion or etc, all the while there are religous wars being waged around the globe, all stirred by the same crew who present the politicians we get to choose from at our elections, believing we live in a democracy.

            IMO the idea seems to be to destroy religion, which is most likely how it was designed to be used, along with providing cover for other activities and worship. Darkness rules this world of ours, that is very clear to me, so preaching light, which is what “god” is supposed to be, all the while tearing religon apart, would be the work of people who are into something most people would find disturbing, and not comprehend.

            To me “god” is everyone and everything, it is all around us, the universe is “god”, and all that is in it, and it seems to me that the great decption is in keeping human beings from realising the togetherness, we all share.What TPTB fear most, is people realising that we are all one, then turning to see who is behind the curtain!

      • Jokerman 8.4.2
        27 September 2012 at 3:23 pm

        Hey there big Guy. Still lovin’ your work.

        (affect heuristic cycle very droll) 🙂

        however, as Bob sang, “you are gonna have to serve somebody ” and His yoke is very light.

        I hope that you are not wasting all that brain power and experience? although you have certainly sowed some seeds and resonated with moi

        Yay! Robertson got his urgent debate

        btw, the reports of education standards for primary schools across the board here in the bay are just freakin shocking!!!

        are they Trying to raise mushrooms? keep children in the dark and feed them bullsh# t?
        so sad 🙁

        • Bored 8.4.2.1
          27 September 2012 at 4:06 pm

          Great work Jman, God always pleases the crowds whether he is called Jehovah, Allah or something simple like Marx. Or maybe Adam with his mates the “Invisible Hand” and the “Market” (an unholy trinity if ever there was one).

          And man oh man can we do the cats and dogs thing when the “received words” and “wisdom” meet in the alley. Blood will run.

          • Jokerman 8.4.2.1.1
            27 September 2012 at 7:04 pm

            u onto it; from memory, which comes and goes, u are making a difference in your neighbourhood

          • Jokerman 8.4.2.1.2
            27 September 2012 at 7:18 pm

            freakin edit let me down Mr B.

            it appears that your memory is Excellent. ( i began with “blood will run in the streets” in a galaxy far, far away)

            and, it may have been u that first replied, to me characterisation of the front bench; i was perpetually surprised that such characterisation was not illegal, yet then, one only has to think of that racist, bigotted, hypocritical, ATTENTION SEEKING dick Laws and the divisive, numb-skull invective that he spouts; Just freakin disgusting (disgust is a natural emotion, in case one is wondering, it leads us to Vomit up that which is unpalatable, unhealthy and harmful.

            🙂

  9. prism 9
    27 September 2012 at 10:02 am

    For fans of Bill Bailey – he’s on Radionz after the 10am news.

    • Rosie 9.1
      27 September 2012 at 11:56 am

      Bill Bailey is always reliable for a good ol’ crack up. There was a good interview with him on Radio Active a few weeks back too.

      • prism 9.1.1
        27 September 2012 at 12:51 pm

        Thought this quite funny from google on a theme bailey used for his shows.
        Bill Bailey | Tour Updates
        http://www.billbailey.co.uk/tour/
        BILL BAILEY – QUALMPEDDLER – 2012 LIVE. Bill Bailey had Doubts about the modern world, but these have now grown into qualms. He will be channeling …

        Qualmpeddler – a man for our time.

        • Rosie 9.1.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 1:25 pm

          Thanks Prism. Ha! Cluster qualm. Like it. And the broth of anxiety. BB conveys worldy apprehension and anxiety in such a charming way.

        • insider 9.1.1.2
          27 September 2012 at 4:33 pm

          Billy Bragg has a great story that his sons favourite Bragg song is in fact unisex chip shop by bill bailey. They’ve even done it on stage together – it’s very funny.

          I love German hokey tokey with I think the real kraftwerk.

  10. prism 10
    27 September 2012 at 10:08 am

    Garth McVicar speaking on prison parole – it should be a privilege rather than a right. Actually that phrase should be applied to his speaking to the media. His opinion of no standing and kneejerk thought, is something that should be heard even more rarely than it now is. Why don’t the media follow up the regular talk back radio phone-ins and ask them for opinions? They have many and often strongly worded, so good soundbites, and much on the same level as McVicar.

  11. Dr Terry 11
    27 September 2012 at 10:16 am

    McVicar succeeds because so many people enjoy the more “sensational” news, particularly when they are so punitively minded.

  12. kiwi_prometheus 12
    27 September 2012 at 11:14 am

    nzherald article on benefit fraudster, Michelle Hawke, getting kicked out of NZs most expensive state house, there in Orakei. She’s been there for 12 years!!!

    “Hawke’s lounge looks out onto the Sky Tower, Orakei Domain, Waiheke Island and towards Bastion Pt, where her relatives occupied the land in 1977.”

    She’s got 90 days to bugger off! I’d give her 90 seconds, the lazy, thieving, good for nothing!

    On second thoughts, actually I’d make her clean up the filthy mess she and her Whanau have made of a tax payer property that we provided her with for next to nothing. Would probably be the first time in her life she had to get off her lazy bum and work.

    “Graffiti adorned fences and the section was covered in rubbish. ”

    Wish I could get free housing, but I don’t because I actually work – in a job I dont particularly like with coworkers I don’t particularly like, but hey I turn up in time, presentable, not hung over or on drugs and get the work done.

    I have to rent. But I don’t trash the place, I don’t leave rubbish strewn everywhere. I keep it clean and tidy. Isn’t that how a human being is suppose to behave? Even animals keep their nest/den tidy.

    Bugger off Ms Hawke, NZ doesn’t need you.

    Too bad we can’t push the useless good for nothing out to sea in a leaky dinghy.

    • fatty 12.1
      27 September 2012 at 11:26 am

      you didn’t answer my question here

    • BernyD 12.2
      27 September 2012 at 11:32 am

      “Isn’t that how a human being is suppose to behave”

      R u asking bud ?, You sit there on your high horse lording your success over the peasants, and then you ask us if that’s the way you’re meant to behave.

      ” in a job I dont particularly like with coworkers I don’t particularly like, but hey I turn up in time, presentable”

      Well this is surprising, you bitch about your job as well as wour workmates. But make sure you are “presentable” too them, opening your eyes yet Buddy?

      “Yeah Naaah M8!”

      • kiwi_prometheus 12.2.1
        27 September 2012 at 11:42 am

        “You sit there on your high horse lording your success over the peasants”

        No I’m actually working class.

        “you bitch about your job as well as wour workmates. But make sure you are “presentable” too them”

        It’s not bitching its just the reality, most people are in a similar situation. But you just get on and do.

        Why do you feel obliged to defend a thieving, lazy, good for nothing?

        • fatty 12.2.1.1
          27 September 2012 at 11:44 am

          still not answering that question KP? if you can’t back up your claims, that’s cool, it doesn’t really surprise me

        • BernyD 12.2.1.2
          27 September 2012 at 11:48 am

          “Prometheus is a Titan, culture hero, and trickster figure who in Greek mythology is credited with the creation of man from clay and the theft of fire for human use”

          You created them buddy, you tell us why you made them that way.

          Blowarse, I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about you.

        • BernyD 12.2.1.3
          27 September 2012 at 1:08 pm

          Ok, sorry for making you angry KP.
          (How’s ya hard drive ?)

          I applaud you for getting on this board and speaking your mind.

          There is a reason no one here validates your whinging, but every one of us actually reads it.

          That should tell you something about accepting that other people will make their decisions for their own reasons, they play the cards they are dealt not the ones you were dealt.

          If you can accept this simple fact then your heart will stop breaking (Stop Beating, and yes anger will do that), which makes your memory unravel for a few seconds.

          The problem with this is you will forever repeat yourself without ever understanding yourself and how you get to those places, so I recommend you undertake Anger Management.

          And just for the record my IQ is 600+

        • Draco T Bastard 12.2.1.4
          27 September 2012 at 6:20 pm

          Why do you feel obliged to defend a thieving, lazy, good for nothing?

          Who is?

          That said, yes the actions, if reported accurately, are atrocious but my thought would be to ask why were they atrocious? rather than to pass uninformed judgement as you did.

    • prism 12.3
      27 September 2012 at 11:56 am

      k p
      What a blood and adrenalin boost you get from dissing the lower classes that you decide are below contempt! Self-indulgent tub-thumping – you’re a waste of space.

      Try keeping up that sort of thing about the shonky financiers and business directors funnelling off money that directly belongs to NZ people, it’s not even taxes ‘wasted’ by the government. Let’s ensure fraud and mismanagement doesn’t eat away into our aggregate wealth so ensuring that we will always be a poor country.

      And for goodness sake k-p don’t waste our time putting stuff on her that is fit only for a ran t on a talk back session. Yours isn’t political discussion.

    • prism 12.4
      27 September 2012 at 12:07 pm

      k – p
      You actually work. That apparently elevates you to a lofty prominence over the rest of us.
      I think you are lucky. Lucky to have a job. And you sound like one of the ignorant part of working class who are right wingers and don’t support each other in necessary activity to achieve better conditions and wages for all. Blue collar, red necker perhaps. What do you do – are you a manager or skilled tradesman or barman or self-employed towtruck driver or what?

    • Colonial Viper 12.5
      27 September 2012 at 6:30 pm

      Too bad we can’t push the useless good for nothing out to sea in a leaky dinghy.

      You should lead by example.

  13. prism 13
    27 September 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Interesting point about bad language that I referred to earlier in another thread. I mentioned potty mouth men and women. There was a very heartening item on Radionz this morning about a boxing and training outfit in Naenae.
    Radionz on Nine to Noon – Billy Graham runs the Naenae Boxing Academy in Wellington. He has released a new book with Phil Gifford Making Champion Men : How one New Zealand man’s vision is changing boys’ lives, published by Hodder Moa.

    The speaker Billy Graham, demands self-discipline including in the choice of speech there, no swearing. He also has to speak to some parents both men and women about constant bad language. He’s written a book about what he does and the interview is a good listen too. We need to hear good news sometimes. And after hearing that, how would this type of enterprise fit into our present education process or into a charter school perhaps?

    Talking about life experience and supporting our young people in NZ how did that army guy get drowned if he was wearing a zipped up lifejacket? And if all on the boat didn’t have them, why not? The Army has put recruits at risk before resulting in them dying for lack of proper resources. It should look after its precious resources, people, before sending them off to do the actual work in the killing fields.

    It was interesting to hear one recently say that they were not in Afghanistan helping to construct and rebuild which has been the PR I’ve heard. Why can’t the Army be trained in these positive skills? They shouldn’t let their distressing muck-up over the farm bridge that collapsed and killed the beekeeper and cost the farmers their livelihood put them off. I am sure they could succeed and learn how to do it right for long term safety and enable them to do good in the world’s war or climate-torn needy areas.

    • McFlock 13.1
      27 September 2012 at 1:30 pm

      You dislike “bad language”. I regard infantile expressions like “potty mouth” a greater debasement of the language than an f-bomb.
               
      Not that I give a damn anyway.
             
      As for the army stuff:
      a) the most basic circumstances of the case haven’t come to light yet so speculation and finger pointing is a bit premature; and
      b) the non-reconstruction army staff in AF would be the SAS “logistics” revenge contingent. The real reconstruction team actually do build schools and so on.
             
       

    • Jokerman 13.2
      27 September 2012 at 1:46 pm

      language is behaviour; behaviour is way into, or out of, Values

    • Bored 13.3
      27 September 2012 at 4:11 pm

      A well placed fekk as a stress on another word can be useful. A Shakespeare or Biblical quote goes well astray 90% of the time (but they are more satisfying to use).

    • weka 13.4
      27 September 2012 at 8:20 pm

      “The speaker Billy Graham, demands self-discipline including in the choice of speech there, no swearing.”

      Sure, but it makes sense in that context that he has rules that promote self-discipline – they’re learning a sport where self-discipline is crucial. I already have control over what I do or don’t say, so swearing isn’t about lack of discipline, it’s because I like the language.

      I’m with McFlock on the term ‘potty-mouth’. 

  14. Tiger Mountain 14
    27 September 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Dear Gordon does the spade work again….

    No wonder ShonKey looked so relieved to be kicking for touch via a short time frame enquiry into the “Dottie” affair.

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2012/09/27/gordon-campbell-on-the-flawed-inquiry-into-the-dotcom-security-breaches/

    PM eager…
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836884

  15. Logie97 15
    27 September 2012 at 5:00 pm

    The Penguin

    If you didn’t already know it, the bloke knows nothing but has been putting the Party Line spin on Dotcom with impunity on the Panel this afternoon.

    On a lighter note, The Panel was asked who had the best male singing voice outside Andy Williams.
    The Penguin opined, “…well actually Andy Williams was a bit before my time, and I would have to choose between Johnny Cash and Elvis Presley. Elvis’s “Return to Sender” does it for me…”

    A quick Wiki search shows Cash, Presley and Williams started performing together in 1956. “Return to Sender” was a hit in 1962. As was “Moon River.”

    Nice one David …, flannel as ever.

    • karol 15.1
      27 September 2012 at 5:02 pm

      Please someone do a photoshop of DF, with “Return to Sender” slapped across it.

    • Jokerman 15.2
      27 September 2012 at 9:41 pm

      ha ha “David”- try ” i Hurt myself today..like I always do…”( Cash or NINE INCH NAILS)
      no wonder the general public is so uninformed considering the people Paid to inform them

      Speaking of which- “Close Up” about to go down the “entertainment” drain
      apparently 80% of free to air veiwers prefer something light over something substantial according to ol’ pizza brain (oops, thats not very compassionate Jokerman you n0rty boy you)

      Fluff, freakin InsulFluff is what they are apparently wanting.

      Now, go to bed you n0rty boy!

  16. Te Reo Putake 16
    27 September 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Wow! John Key has just discovered that Radio New Zealand has news shows and whats more, he’s appearing on one right now. Apparently, the illegal spying is just a simple mistake, but it’s also “mind blowing”. And it’s all the legal teams fault and he didn’t need to know about it. What a sap.

  17. Colonial Viper 17
    27 September 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Principles of false flag attacks

    Dedicated to travellerev

  18. prism 18
    27 September 2012 at 8:40 pm

    A little item on queuing in USA – the way it is changing – on Radionz tonight. In some places they have coloured wristbands you pay for and wear which will give you priority at various locations. Good for queues in the hot sun where other people have to wait longer. The speaker commented on the increasing distance between the strata of society there. This is just another way of making life harder.

    Then also there is a fastlane on a motorway in one of the states. This was provided by doing away with the previous car pool lane that had a two people minimum. Now the travel of a non-paying commuter has changed from about half hour to an hour and a half. I think this is what he said.

    I can imagine that in public-private partnerships for roads than include tolls, this type of elitist approach to what is a democratic need for transport routes, might be one of the unexpected disadvantages that ordinary citizens have to bear.

    In industrial Britain I understand that adults were rejected as cotton mill workers, with their children being employed instead, sometimes being the only workers in the household. They had to walk to the mill and I think were docked serious money if they were late. There weren’t too many watches around then either! Some I believe had to get up at 3 am to get organised for the long walk to work to make sure they were on time. There are so many ways that people can be ground down by harsh conditions. Preference for the better off is one way.

  19. Lou 19
    29 September 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Me at the airport = uneconomically viable invisible person
    Actually i choose not to fly anymore due to the HUMUNGOUS environmental footprint, which i guess makes me even more invisible (just as well given how uneconomically viable i am)