Open mike 28/08/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 28th, 2022 - 60 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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60 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2022 ”

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  1. Ad 1
    28 August 2022 at 8:33 am

    So Europe+UK have energy bill spikes, long term drought and food production collapse, refugee floods, war, inflation, export decreases through power shortages, looming deep recession into the remainder of 2020s …

    … but no current changes in policy direction.

    That's going to take a lot of riot Police.

    Something will really have to change.

  2. Jenny are we there yet 2
    28 August 2022 at 9:13 am

    Why can’t we cut our greenhouse gas emissions?

    “Governments should pick targets, not technologies.

    In one sentence vested interest polluters define the farcical Zero Carbon by 2050 act, and why emissions keep going up.

    Zero enforcement.

    Just how the polluters like it

    Party, party, party.

    Aussie car industry rejects 2035 ICE ban

    The Australian car industry has rejected a push to effectively ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2035…..

    …..‘leave the technology in our hands’.

    ….“Governments should pick targets, not technologies. Decisions around technology should be left to the experts – the vehicle makers.

    https://evcentral.com.au/aussie-car-industry-rejects-2035-ice-ban/

    Umm. Wasn't this the industry that picked tetraethyl lead technology in petrol, leading to millions of premature deaths and human illness?

    ……putting lead, a deadly heavy-metal neurotoxin, into gasoline; releasing ozone-destroying Freon into the stratosphere; and unleashing the scourge of chlorofluorocarbons, implicated in aerosols and just about every piece of foamed plastic choking the world’s landfills and waterways. Once upon a time—with the aid of an aggressive and sustained public-relations program funded by a trio of mighty corporations…

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a39356456/the-man-who-poisoned-the-world-with-leaded-gasoline/#:~:text=The%20Man%20Who%20Poisoned%20the%20World%20With%20Leaded,made%20him%20a%20millionaire%2C%20but%20destroyed%20his%20body.

    Come to think of it Elected governments should be a toothless advisory bodies to leave business alone to run the country and decide the future, isn't this how all right thinking, right wing, vested interest groups think?

    Oh No! governments spoil the party with regulations. How can this be? Governments shouldn't be choosing the technology. Why didn't they just give us targets?

    Countries Ban Leaded Gasoline

    In August 2021, Algeria was officially the last country to ban leaded gasoline. There has been a long-lasting humanitarian struggle to ban leaded gasoline throughout different countries. The first country to ban leaded gasoline was Japan in the 1980s. Then, other developed countries had followed, including Austria, Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the United States. During the 2000s until the 2020s, 117 more countries, developed and developing, pushed to ban leaded gasoline.

    Bribes, Finance and the Holdouts for Ban on Leaded Gasoline

    Some countries, such as Indonesia, were guilty of receiving bribes from leaded gasoline oil industries. However, Indonesia finally banned leaded gasoline.

    “By 2016 only Algeria, Yemen, and Iraq were holdouts," said National Geographic.

    …..Leaded gasoline companies were reportedly sending bribes to countries to encourage them to continue using leaded gasoline. It is clear to see why some countries took much longer to ban leaded gasoline than other countries.

    Ban of Leaded Gasoline Everywhere is a Huge Win

    There are an estimated 1.2 million people who die from leaded gasoline each year. The hospital rates are even higher. Now that there is a ban on leaded fuel, “The fuel’s elimination will save $2.45 trillion a year, UNEP estimates, reflecting the economic side of lives and nature saved,” said Geneva Solutions Inger Andersen,

    https://borgenproject.org/ban-of-leaded-gasoline/

    The Prime Minister has said that climate change is this generation's nuclear free moment.

    Yeah right. Maybe David Lange instead of banning nuclear ship visits should just have set targets and politely informed the nuclear powers of them.

    • Jenny are we there yet 2.1
      28 August 2022 at 9:51 am

      Time for ICE import ban, Shaw says

      BY GEOFF DOBSON November 18, 2020.

      So says climate change minister James Shaw​, telling Stuff he’d recommend the policy to new transport minister Michael Wood​ as an “anti-dumping measure” as well as for environmental reasons.

      Shaw earlier outlined the Green Party’s proposed ban but has brought it forward for consideration with the UK aiming to ban all new ICE cars by 2030.

      However, Shaw isn’t certain a ban on ICE imports will get Cabinet’s OK…..

      https://autotalk.co.nz/news/time-for-ice-import-ban-shaw-says

      Shaw isn’t certain a ban on ICE imports will get Cabinet’s OK.

      Of course it won't.

      Daring to suggest regulation of industry inside cabinet is blasphemy to neo-liberal economic theory. Climate change has no Minister in cabinet to keep out any blasphemous talk of regulating industry.

      God forbid. Where would we be if government started interfering in business?

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    28 August 2022 at 9:25 am

    Bryce Edwards writes:

    "Trevor Mallard is widely regarded as the worst Speaker of Parliament the country has ever had."

    He goes on to show that he is one of those people who subscribe to what I believe is an erroneous view. I have watched a good deal of the Speaker's work in the House and found Trevor Mallard to be a very good Speaker, unafraid to do what he could to rein-in unimpressive behaviour by MPs during Question Time.

    Apologies if this has already been covered here on TS.

    https://democracyproject.nz/2022/08/26/bryce-edwards-mallards-diplomatic-appointment-lacks-integrity/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bryce-edwards-mallards-diplomatic-appointment-lacks-integrity

    • Barfly 3.1
      28 August 2022 at 9:36 am

      For Bryce Edwards to be balanced in his writing he would to became blind in his one remaining eye.

      Perhaps he is impartial – and just recently had a significant brain injury which has robbed him of all memory of David Carter.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1
        28 August 2022 at 12:21 pm

        David Carter – words fail me. I attended an event at which he spoke. I thought, "Is this a set-up? Should we applaud his clever performance? – Spoof, right??"

        Nope. He was what he was.

      • Bearded Git 3.1.2
        28 August 2022 at 1:00 pm

        Agreed Barfly on Edwards and Carter. Both atrocious.

        Sir David Carter (!!) was the worst speaker I have seen in terms of bias.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3
        28 August 2022 at 9:01 pm

        devil The tractor, the dismissal of the women MP's stories, Etc!!!!

    • Jenny are we there yet 3.2
      28 August 2022 at 10:07 am

      Trevor Mallard has never been noted for his tolerance.

      In my opinion the violent scenes at Parliament could possibly have been avoided, if Trevor Mallard had taken a less belligerent approach.

      Mallard was the wrong man, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and lost his job, because of it.

      • Robert Guyton 3.2.1
        28 August 2022 at 10:14 am

        Bad behaviour shouldn't be tolerated.

        Trevor's not responsible for the violent scenes on Parliament's lawn.

      • Shanreagh 3.2.2
        28 August 2022 at 10:22 am

        I wasn't aware that he had lost his job?

        I had known that he had signalled his wish very early on that this term would be his last and then formalised his resignation, possibly when the Ireland posting came up.

        The violent end to the protest was writ in stone much before the sprinklers etc. In my view from the moment the group refused to on and put up the tents. And who can forget the frightening snarling face of the protester Brett Power as he was led away. When you have groups espousing the overthrow of Parliament/lynching/killing of many public figures, a refusal to move on, it more or less called out for the Police response to move them on, just as the similar protest in Ottawa did.

        To lay this on one man is naive in my view.

      • Nic the NZer 3.2.3
        28 August 2022 at 10:51 am

        Tolerance? In fact an attempt was made by elements of the protest to invade parliament on the 7th of February (day 2). That was the basis for the trespass notices, basically recognising that allowing the protest to camp out on the lawn made it very difficult for parliament to function. On the 10th Police already attempted to remove the encampment and arrested people who had been camped there illegally (since the 7th).

        The sprinklers were left on on the 11th by which time the protest was clearly entrenched and had well prior made its first attempt at January 6th storming.

        • Jenny are we there yet 3.2.3.1
          29 August 2022 at 9:01 pm

          Nic the NZer

          28 August 2022 at 10:51 am

          …..an attempt was made by elements of the protest to invade parliament on the 7th of February (day 2)….

          Do you have a confirmation of that assertion Nic?

          Unfortunately I have tried googling this, but couldn't find anything to back it up.

          I have tried several versions of 'Anti mandate protesters attempt to invade 'parliament 7/02/2022' with and without quotations and could find nothing.
          I have tried using the date as you have written it '7th of February' I have replaced anti-mandate with 'anti-vaxxer'.

          A little help here.

          • Nic the NZer 3.2.3.1.1
            29 August 2022 at 10:45 pm

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest#First_week

            Of course I also remember it being reported at the time as well.

            • Jenny are we there yet 3.2.3.1.1.1
              30 August 2022 at 7:30 am

              Nic the NZer

              29 August 2022 at 10:45 pm

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest#First_week

              Of course I also remember it being reported at the time as well.

              Accuracy is important.

              What you remember and what was reported are two different things.

              Especially when emotions are running high.

              I can understand your hatred. The antivaxxers views and behaviour are/were despicable, appalling. And though there was an attempt, "to push through a fence outside Parliament" There is no report of an actual attempt made to invade parliament, at least not in this wikipedia entry.

              Nic, the wikipedia entry you supplied, confirmed my recollection of the events, which was that police forcibly attempted to remove the antivaxxer protesters from the grounds of parliament. (a public space).
              On the order of Trevor Mallard.

              I argued at time that this heavy handed approach was counter productive, and that this confrontation is just what the far right element among the protesters wanted.

              Trevor Mallard is a hothead with a history of violent assault, inside the parliament building.

              Bryce Edwards is a Left academic with a coherent Left world outlook.

              Trevor Mallard, an alumnus of the Neo liberal Lange/Douglas administration, is an impulsive hothead and bully with no coherent recorded Left outlook.

              I stand by my statement that Trevor Mallard was the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

              Some could argue he always has been.

              Good riddance to bad rubbish.

              ……protesters attempted to push through a fence outside Parliament but were stopped by Police, who formed a ring around the entrance to the Parliament Buildings. Three men were arrested and issued with trespass notices. One of those arrested was the conspiracy theorist Brett Powers, who unsuccessfully attempted to arrest Minister of Health Andrew Little for alleged culpability in vaccine deaths.[68][69] Police also issued orders for protesters to remove their tents and marquees from Parliament grounds. The attempt to breach the police line outside Parliament may have sparked tensions between the original organisers (who advocated calm) and Counterspin (who pushed for the storming of Parliament).[68] [65]

              Police attempted to forcibly remove the protesters from Parliament grounds on the 10th February…..

              • Nic the NZer …
                30 August 2022 at 11:48 am

                "What you remember and what was reported are two different things."

                Actually they are not two different things, I wasn't there so all I am remembering is what was reported. All I'm saying here is that what is written in that wiki entry basically describes the same events which I also saw reported. It appears your building some sophistic argument based off your fallacy interpreting my comment. If that is to be your mode of discussion you can fuck right off! You also appear to agree that the description via wiki is basically a reasonable description of events.

                "I can understand your hatred."

                What hatred is that? All I've attempted to do is described what is known about what individuals involved did at the time. If there is any hatred which might need to be reviewed it appears to be emanating from your comments.

                Now back to the point. You challenged the statement "an attempt was made by elements of the protest to invade parliament on the 7th of February (day 2)" and claimed that this didn't occur.

                So far you have conceded that attempts were made to push through a barrier (which was in front of parliament) and 3 people were arrested (many more than 3 were participating in the push) and one of those arrested was Brett Powers who was attempting to 'arrest' Andrew Little in their attempt. Andrew Little was inside parliament.

                Given the demands from the protest camp that politicians be arrested and tried (and the posts on social media describing kidnapping politicians, or other parliamentary staff) it seems entirely reasonable that after breaching the barriers these elements would further try to enter parliament.

                So I submit this confirmation of just what I said in my statement.

                As far as Trevor Mallards actions (on day 5) go this is clearly irrelevant. The protesters were clearly camped out from day 1 and the police were needed in numbers from day 2 already, trespass (on the grounds of the camping, which is against parliaments rules) was discussed from day 2 and any other speaker would have done the same in similar circumstances.

                • Jenny are we there yet …
                  30 August 2022 at 12:58 pm

                  Nic no matter how you twist things to fit your pro-authoritarian narrative.

                  That no attempt was made to invade parliament is a fact. Some barriers erected on parliament grounds were knocked down. So what?

                  It wasn't the first time.

                  Peaceful Kiwi protesters calmly put back up barricades after knocking them down during rally against Covid vaccine mandates

                  • Anti-vaxxer protesters in Wellington politely put back up knocked-down barriers
                  • Authorities set up ring of steel around country's parliament building on Tuesday
                  • One protester filmed knocking down barricade as he gestured angrily at police
                  • Work was undone though by three other protesters who quickly put it back up
                  • Came as thousands rallied against Covid vaccination mandates on city's streets

                  By Charlie Coe for Daily Mail Australia and Reuters.

                  11 November 2021

                  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10188789/Covid-New-Zealand-Polite-anti-vaxxer-protesters-barricades-theyre-knocked-down.html

                  The anti-mandate protesters, (whether it is true or not), maintain that only a tiny minority were violent and Far Right extremists.

                  A bull in a china shop.

                  When we needed a deft hand, instead we had, an impulsive and intolerant authoritarian with a proven history of violence used to having his own way. Who instead of exercising restraint in a tense situation. From the very outset appeared intent on escalating and inflaming the situation.

                  In effect driving the moderate protesters into the arms of extremists.

                  Just what the extremists wanted.

                  This giant egotist has set a precedent for how protesters blockading polluters or union pickets against scabbing will be treated by the police force.

                  All I can say is thank goodness Trevor Mallard wasn't calling the shots at Rugby Park Hamilton in 1981.

                  Since those days and since the Urewera police raids, the police have taken a more softly softly approach to protesters.

                  Why do we have to repeat what happens overseas?

                  I had hoped for better for this country.

                  • Nic the NZer …
                    30 August 2022 at 1:12 pm

                    This doesn't challenge what I said. I only claimed elements attempted to invade parliament. It was day-2 and this attempt caused a major split in approach between protest organisers.

                    But considering your knowledge that Brett Powers was tackled behind the barricades and your insight that he was not attempting to cross the line (and enter parliament). Have you considered replacing Ian Foster as ABs coach?

                  • Incognito …
                    30 August 2022 at 6:08 pm

                    This giant egotist has set a precedent for how protesters blockading polluters or union pickets against scabbing will be treated by the police force.

                    That’s another long bow by you, but I dread the use of awful music and sprinklers instead of water cannons as future crowd dispersion tactics by NZ Police inspired by Mallard; it will be a new textbook entry.

                    All I can say is thank goodness Trevor Mallard wasn't calling the shots at Rugby Park Hamilton in 1981.

                    All I can say is, here’s a challenge for your cognitive ability to reconcile fact with your prejudice and confirmation bias:

                    The guinea-pigs put Mr Mallard, a protest veteran himself, in mind of his own days as an activist, which included being hauled out of the public galleries of Parliament during an anti-SIS bill demonstration and being arrested during the 1981 Springbok tour.

                    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fond-memories-of-a-trouble-maker/ITQDV6HPMKMCK4DXHNCXBU6A5E/

                    Why do we have to repeat what happens overseas?

                    You mean sprinklers and ‘earworm’ music instead of water cannons and tear gas? You seem prone to exaggeration and hyperbole.

              • Incognito …
                30 August 2022 at 5:55 pm

                Bryce Edwards is a Left academic with a coherent Left world outlook.

                laugh

                • lprent …
                  30 August 2022 at 6:22 pm

                  Bryce Edwards is a Left academic with a coherent Left world outlook.

                  He has consistently been a perfect adherent to one party, New Labour. It was dissolved 21 years ago.

                  The gum that his political viewpoint was created with has lodged with appears to have become yellow and quite stiffened with age. The only consistent message I have heard from him over the decades is that he doesn’t like the New Zealand Labour party. At various phrases he has been enthusiastic about other parties like Mana and other unsuccessful and usually now dissolved parties.

                  In my view the only thing that I am sure about with his coherence is that he is a consistent picker of parties, people, and policy that haven’t had any electoral support either here or worldwide. Consequently none of things that in his “coherent Left world outlook” have come to pass.

                  I tend to view him as a negative prophet. An incompetent critic who is happy to criticise but fails to actually suggest anything that is viable because his criticism lacks suggestions about alternatives. basically a Mrs Grundy too concerned about what the neighbours are being active about to ever do any work himself about how to change what he complains about.

                  If you want to see how useful criticism should be done, then read Gordon Campbell at Werewolf or No Right Turn. They not only point what they perceive to be to the problems with the NZLP, but also to specific solutions and policy changes some of which might actually work.

    • roy Cartland 3.3
      28 August 2022 at 12:03 pm

      That is a grossly unfair claim from Edwards. As speaker, I thought he was surprisingly adept, and uncommonly balanced. The previous speaker, Carter, was pathetic in getting ministers to "address" questions.

      OTOH, Trev as a guy is a complete boofhead, but that's by the by.

      • Robert Guyton 3.3.1
        28 August 2022 at 12:25 pm

        I'm with you, Roy.

        Mallard though, did destroy Whaleoil (on a bicycle).

        That's epic/mythologic.

      • Peter 3.3.2
        28 August 2022 at 9:34 pm

        I watched so much of Speaker Carter and was appalled knowing that at the end of his stint, after his dismal performance he would be knighted.

        Every time Mallard peed off the National and ACT supporters I relished the thought of him too being knighted and how that would rile them more.

        It was especially funny seeing dumbo efforts from the likes of David Bennett and Paul Goldsmith who were too thick in basic comprehension to understand the rules, what they'd said and how to get back on track. Being brought into line by the rough and ready Mallard who grasped they didn't have a grasp was fun.

    • newsense 3.4
      28 August 2022 at 3:27 pm

      Bryce Edwards is the most impressively credentialed appeasement figure in NZ. Though that may be unkind to appeasement figures.

      • Peter 3.4.1
        28 August 2022 at 9:25 pm

        Contexts and truths:

        Edwards: "Trevor Mallard is widely regarded as the worst Speaker of Parliament the country has ever had."

        Me: "Donald Trump is widely regarded as a brilliant man, the best person to be President of the United States and in fact the best President the country has ever had."

  4. Barfly 4
    28 August 2022 at 9:27 am

    Well because the NZRFU are collectively insane we may well have Ian Foster as coach for the World Cup – for the sake of New Zealand, Labour must have the next election before the World Cup quarter finals as being bundled out early in a humiliating manner will result in countrywide need to punish someone and you don't want to be the incumbent in an election after that! crying

  5. pat 5
    28 August 2022 at 9:45 am

    "Real change would mean decentralisation of decision-making, progressive taxation, wealth tax, significantly higher levels of investment in free access to education, health, social housing and other key public services, dealing with the impact of colonisation on Maori, working with other governments to regulate international flows of capital, power-sharing in business enterprises, building an economy that is international in outlook while producing more onshore and on and on"

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300670053/no-easy-fixes-in-inequality-debate

    "This is a huge and radical agenda. But only policy on this scale will deal with what Piketty identifies as the core of the income inequality problem.

    I cannot see this happening soon in any democratic nation."

  6. arkie 6
    28 August 2022 at 9:52 am

    Despite widespread support from councils and interest groups, Chlöe Swarbrick's Alcohol Harm Minimisation bill is encountering resistance as it works its way through parliament:

    Green Party MP Chlöe Swarbrick, who submitted the Alcohol Harm Minimisation member's bill, told Morning Report she was frustrated by the political inaction shown by the government.

    "I am frustrated and I think that this is indicative of why the New Zealand public get frustrated at politics, we have health agencies, we have overwhelming evidence.

    "We even have two reports that the government commissioned in the last term of Parliament which said get on with these recommendations from 2014 and from 2010 and 2011, which have subsequently been ignored by the bogey man of the alcohol industry."

    The proposed bill had received the most widespread support out of any members bills ever that had yet to reach its first reading, she said.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/472602/swarbrick-frustrated-by-deputy-pm-not-backing-alcohol-harm-minimisation-bill

    Today the it's the turn of the Health Minister:

    South Auckland's top public health expert "crossed the line of political neutrality" by supporting a Green MP's alcohol harm reduction bill, Health Minister Andrew Little says.

    …

    Director of Population Health in Counties Manukau Dr Gary Jackson wrote to a number of MPs in July, using a Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand letterhead.

    He expressed concern about children's exposure to alcohol advertising and urged MPs to support Auckland Central MP Chlöe Swarbrick's alcohol harm minimisation bill.

    Dr Jackson has since retracted the letter but in it said the legislation would give communities the power to decide alcohol availability in their local areas and protect children who watch broadcast sport.

    "Children in New Zealand see alcohol advertising everywhere, especially promoted by their sporting heroes. The Bill proposes to take action on alcohol harm by restricting alcohol sports sponsorship and advertising," the letter said.

    "We have a vision of unborn peepi, tamariki and rangatahi growing up free from the harms of alcohol. People should be able to live, work, play and socialise in communities free from the harms of alcohol. With your help, we can make real progress towards achieving this vision."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/473646/minister-rebukes-health-leader-over-alcohol-bill-support

    Perhaps the 'learnings' from this could be that this is a popular and needed bill and the government should support its passing.

  7. Sacha 7
    28 August 2022 at 11:00 am

    Useful brief thread of tweets – click on the first to see the others:

    https://twitter.com/ConanMcKegg/status/1563417337880948737

  8. bwaghorn 8
    28 August 2022 at 1:55 pm

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/129677583/antimandate-doctor-running-for-wellington-city-council

    Stuff needs to be applauded ,this is about the 4th article today ,shing a light on the dangerous and delusional infiltrating the halls of power.

    • Robert Guyton 8.1
      28 August 2022 at 2:15 pm

      She "loathes" stuff.

      X

    • Bearded Git 8.2
      28 August 2022 at 3:52 pm

      Agreed-well done Stuff.

      Dr. Ate Moala should be struck off for spreading misleading health advice that could lead to many deaths.

    • mauī 8.3
      28 August 2022 at 7:29 pm

      Go on, actually watch all the valid points she makes to the Health Select Committee (theres a link within the article) speaking as a doctor of 34 years specializing in public health, rather than the snippets of propaganda you've got from stuff.

  9. bwaghorn 9
    28 August 2022 at 2:03 pm

    https://phys.org/news/2022-08-efficient-carbon-dioxide-reduction-visible.html

    Mostly gidderish to my untrained brain but this is the stuff that will help save us,

    • Robert Guyton 9.1
      28 August 2022 at 2:13 pm

      Well, it gives … "scientists at Tokyo Tech hope in the fight against global warming.", so it must be good, right?

      🙂

      • bwaghorn 9.1.1
        28 August 2022 at 5:49 pm

        Availability is all that stops p topping the physical stats,, its addictive qualities out way alcohol by miles,

        P destroys all basic decency makes good people dirt bags of the highest order.

  10. newsense 10
    28 August 2022 at 3:31 pm

    Luxon announces crackdown on youff crime!

    Haven’t looked at the details, but firstly youth crime is down, and surely there isn’t room in the National caucus for all those who can’t be reformed?

  11. Stephen D 11
    28 August 2022 at 4:17 pm

    This is the road that National could take us down if left unchecked.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-conservative-party-is-suffering-from-a-talent-vacuum/

    “Foreign Secretary Truss, for example, with her promise of a growth boom and tax cuts across the board, doesn’t seem to realize — or simply doesn’t care — that these policies will probably lead to a massive inflationary spiral over and above the double-digit price hikes the U.K. is already suffering from. Former Conservative Chancellor Nigel Lawson warned this could be the case earlier this month, stating that former Prime Minister Edward Heath’s similar policies in the 1970s crippled the British economy and put millions out of work. “

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