Open Mike 28/06/2017

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1. Ed 1

   28 June 2017 at 6:11 am

   The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union.
   The only union the Herald ever publishes.
   Surprise surprise.
   Their economist says a sugar tax won’t work.
   Their economist is only just out of University.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11882517
   https://nz.linkedin.com/in/macmckenna
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.1

     28 June 2017 at 7:42 am

     The purpose of the sugar tax is ambitious – to reduce obesity – yet campaigners for New Zealand’s version of a sugar tax only want to tax soft drinks.

     from article in NZH
     Obesity is not the only reason. There is a link between gout In men and sugar In soft drinks. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/96164.php
     There is dental decay particularly in children attributed to soft drinks plus fruit juice.

     The article in the Herald written by the economist representing the Tax Payers’ Union has this as the last paragraph:

     There is an abundance of health advocacy and information on what we should and should not be eating and drinking. If people still choose to consume “unhealthy” products in spite of these health warnings then what right does the Government have telling people they are making the wrong choice. I certainly do not want government bureaucrats making health decisions on my behalf.

     “what right does the Government have telling people they are making the wrong choice?” The government, which should represents the people, has the right because we, the tax payers, pick up the tab for the consequences, just as we have to treat those who have smoking related illnesses.

     We also have a duty of care to prevent as far as possible the child’s rotting teeth, the gout, etc just as we have rules about smoke alarms, high viz vests, hard hats, etc.
     The Tax Payer’s Union (Championing Value For Money From Every Tax Dollar) should be SUPPORTING A TAX ON FIZZY DRINKS.
     • bwaghorn 1.1.1

       28 June 2017 at 7:55 am

       ”The Tax Payer’s Union (Championing Value For Money From Every Tax Dollar) should be SUPPORTING A TAX ON FIZZY DRINKS.”

       for that to be true would have to believe the tax payers union is about helping tax payers , and not the spotty buck toothed illegitimate child of the nats and big business
       • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.1.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 8:04 am

         So true. In fact the Herald article is such that if it was not credited to the economist from the TPU, it could have been paid content on behalf of the soft- drink companies.
       • greywarshark 1.1.1.2

         28 June 2017 at 10:42 am

         “what right does the Government have telling people they are making the wrong choice?”

         In Transactional Analysis, which shows you how to understand the points of view governing your mind and those you are talking to, that would be a comment coming from the Child self and particularly the rebellious Child, which is in all of us.

         It’s definitely not a reasoned argument. After all who presents the different products that constitute the choice, why these types of products in this form, and who gains; if they are not wholly advantageous and healthy?
   • Draco T Bastard 1.2

     28 June 2017 at 8:46 am

     Their economist says a sugar tax won’t work.

     Strange because economists have been saying such things work for ages.

     Given that I suspect that it’s just lies.
     • Ed 1.2.1

       28 June 2017 at 8:03 pm
2. Robert Guyton 2

   28 June 2017 at 6:28 am

   A battered car, blue paintwork chipped and faded, rattles its way aimlessly through a gloomy Deep South, swerving laboriously to avoid the deep and hidden potholes in the road. The driver’s window rolls down. The pallid light from the Southland dawn barely illuminates the sallow face of the man behind the wheel. He sets his jaw, squints into the gloom of an oncoming squall and tosses an expired cigarette butt out of the open window. The thin light of the car’s headlights picks out a finger-sign on a drunkenly-leaning lamppost ahead, “Dipton”.
   • The decrypter 2.1

     28 June 2017 at 8:34 am

     Dipton–pop 0.
   • Muttonbird 2.2

     28 June 2017 at 8:48 am

     Haunting. Enjoyed that, thanks.
     • In Vino 2.2.1

       28 June 2017 at 6:23 pm

       Me too. I assume it was the aftermath of a dark and stormy night…
       • marty mars 2.2.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 6:53 pm

         You mean a stormy and dark night don’t you…
         • In Vino 2.2.1.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 8:21 pm

           Tempestuous and tenebrous… ?
   • greywarshark 2.3

     28 June 2017 at 2:08 pm

     Robert Guyton
     That reads like a laconic tale of a PI in New York or in deepest USA rurality rather. The gumshoe type. Have you written any other short stories? I have a few of the great old Argosy periodicals where there was a market for these. When it is cold and wet perhaps you could pen a few for publication in NZ.
     • Robert Guyton 2.3.1

       28 June 2017 at 2:26 pm

       Ha! It’s not my genre really but Bill’s got the face for it. I’m more flippant and chirpy, by nature. I used to, btw, read Argosy, whenever I was staying at a friends bach at Kaiteriteri, back in the day. They had bookshelves stuffed with them and whenever it rained or it was too hot to go outside, I’d read’m.
3. Ad 3

   28 June 2017 at 8:24 am

   While the MSM and the business commentators will continue having multiple orgasms about how winning the Americas Cup is a superior business leadership model and will save us all, back in the actual economy it just gets worse.
   The export economy is simply not paying our way.

   Imports of petroleum products and motor vehicles pushed our imports way up, far higher than 2016.

   And we still generate roughly the same products that we did around World War One: dairy commodities in the form of milk powder, butter, and cheese. Plus other agricultural commodities: beef and lamb, forestry, fruit, and wine. What we make is great, it’s just not enough to raise the tax to run a society with the kind of services we deserve.

   I would love to have business and government leadership in this country that can tell us we will get rich without screwing the land, or buying houses to rent, or just worshipping tiny teams of sportspeople as if means anything.

   http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/industry_sectors/imports_and_exports/OverseasMerchandiseTrade_HOTPMay17.aspx

   Media release:

   http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/industry_sectors/imports_and_exports/OverseasMerchandiseTrade_MRMay17.aspx

   Anyone with a plan, now’s your time.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     28 June 2017 at 8:50 am

     I would love to have business and government leadership in this country that can tell us we will get rich without screwing the land, or buying houses to rent, or just worshipping tiny teams of sportspeople as if means anything.

     So would I but it can’t happen in a capitalist society which means that we’re on the path to complete collapse but probably only after we’ve seriously altered the balance of the environment.
     • David Mac 3.1.1

       28 June 2017 at 9:33 am

       Draco, how many New Zealanders will accept the idea ‘The state is going to cancel all property rights. The government will own all land and buildings?’

       I think I could count them up without removing my shoes and socks.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 11:00 am

         Who said anything about cancelling all property rights?
         BTW, the government already owns all the land and everything in it. That’s not going to change.
         How many already pay rent? For a large number of people it would just be a change in landlords and for many of those it would be an improvement.
         Is there anything inherently wrong with the government owning all buildings?

         Is there anything inherently right about property rights that put a few people above everyone else, that then allows those few to become massive bludgers?
         • David Mac 3.1.1.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 11:15 am

           What percentage of New Zealanders do you think would go for the State controlling all land, buildings?
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1

             28 June 2017 at 11:44 am

             Don’t know but I suspect that it would be more than expected. It may even be a majority as it is.

             A good explanation as to why it’s necessary would probably change that.

             BTW, do you have any intention of answering the questions I asked?
             • David Mac …

               28 June 2017 at 2:59 pm

               I don’t think we need to trial the State owning all buildings and land to see how it goes. We need only look to every other regime that has gone down that path. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places but I see an equality of misery and hardship every time.

               Our current regime is so far from a revolution we can’t prompt a million people to go and tick a page one September morning.
               • fender …

                 28 June 2017 at 4:33 pm

                 In Draco(nian) dream land the state would own everything, even all the underpants.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   28 June 2017 at 4:44 pm

                   Guess who owns all the world now?

                   And have a look at all the poverty and restriction that it produces.
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 28 June 2017 at 4:42 pm

                 Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places but I see an equality of misery and hardship every time.

                 And I see the same thing when looking at capitalism. And even more I see the destruction of society brought about by the greed of the capitalists.

                 Are you thinking that those 30% of children living in poverty and their parents are living bright, happy and fulfilled lives?

                 In fact, when you look at those couple of 20th century examples what you really see is state capitalism so it’s really not surprising, once you look at the true history of capitalism, that it failed.
                 • David Mac …

                   28 June 2017 at 5:44 pm

                   Do you see an equality of misery and hardship all about you? Where do you live? I’m in NZ’s poorest region and I don’t. A million of us can’t be bothered voting.

                   I watched Simon Reeve walking around Cuba on the TV recently, a 2012 doco. I found the tentacles of capitalism rising in the streets fascinating. Obviously he could of skewed his show with bias but he seems like an upright sort of rooster. He found few upset to see capitalism rising.

                   Yes household poverty is a concern, the government taking control of all houses and distributing them via a show of hands is not a solution. It’s a path to bigger problems.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     28 June 2017 at 6:54 pm

                     Do you see an equality of misery and hardship all about you?

                     No, I see a massive increase in poverty while a few bludgers get richer. Was about the same in the USSR, the DPRK and China as well. A few very well off while many aren’t.

                     Yes household poverty is a concern, the government taking control of all houses and distributing them via a show of hands is not a solution.

                     Why would the government be distributing them?
                     And isn’t that what ‘the market’ does?

                     Massive inequality is what capitalism does and it’s what eventually destroys a society. That bit hasn’t gone away as the rise in inequality and poverty prove. We’re still destroying ourselves to make a few greedy bludgers richer.
     • greywarshark 3.1.2

       28 June 2017 at 12:10 pm

       Ad
       Time for reassessment, back to the drawing board, with pencils and paper. Let’s get away from the heady field of computers. put the ideas, thoughts and suggestions down where everyone can look at a permanent physical list and plan.

       Also look at the number of government departments and agencies. Gather a group of interested learners and experts to each one and make a plan that all agree would take us into the future in an affordable way. Then look at what government or their creatures are doing and the direction. Set up a think tank to push them in the right direction. Give monthly reports of what is being achieved. Get an enthusiastic following that likes the result or comments as to where it can be improved.

       Get the people of NZ behind the roll-out watching and wanting NZ to do well as a total country not just an enclave of the self-anointed.
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1

         28 June 2017 at 1:32 pm

         Time for reassessment, back to the drawing board, with pencils and paper. Let’s get away from the heady field of computers. put the ideas, thoughts and suggestions down where everyone can look at a permanent physical list and plan.

         far easier and less costly to do all of that over the internet.

         Also look at the number of government departments and agencies. Gather a group of interested learners and experts to each one and make a plan that all agree would take us into the future in an affordable way. Then look at what government or their creatures are doing and the direction. Set up a think tank to push them in the right direction. Give monthly reports of what is being achieved. Get an enthusiastic following that likes the result or comments as to where it can be improved.

         Or we could all talk together, discuss what we all want and then hire people to bring that about.

         ATM we have it backwards in that we hire people to tell us what to do.
         • greywarshark 3.1.2.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 2:00 pm

           DTB
           Telling us what to do, instead of us taking the design and thought into our own hands. That’s what we are doing.

           There are many free and fanciful thoughts though. That is why I think it would be good to put pen or pencil to paper and then face to face discuss the matters worked out at first individually. It would be a whole new experience for all the key tappers.

           Considering that technology and smart alecing has got us so far up ourselves that we meet ourselves coming back again, quantum like, I think we should revert back to the styles used where our present policies are taking us, somewhere about the 1930’s (with huge human malpractices going on carefully unnoticed by the general public in an organised fashion.)
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1.1.1

             28 June 2017 at 2:20 pm

             That is why I think it would be good to put pen or pencil to paper and then face to face discuss the matters worked out at first individually.

             And how do you get face to face with three million people?

             Considering that technology and smart alecing has got us so far up ourselves that we meet ourselves coming back again…

             It wasn’t technology that did that but lack of being able to talk with each other because of lack of technology. Instead we ended up with a hierarchical system.

             It’s technology that can bring about what you want. Trying to go back to the 1930s will prevent that.
             • greywarshark …

               29 June 2017 at 10:10 am

               DTB
               You are overlooking the findings of numerous thinkers (who I can’t recall exactly) that most ideas and changes come from a very few people.
               The three or so million that you refer to are those who are given the chance to vote for some idea in elections, and many of them hardly bother to think and just trot off along their well-oiled railroad track to the usual tick. Some don’t bother at all.

               Poof to your 3 million. We need people who care to think, and then think right through to the end and understand and assess the pros and cons considering known facts, possibilities, past failures and successes and human nature’s ability to skew legislation and methods, and then we would get some good stuff. And I want to look at people’s demeanour to check out their plausability, even with skype people lack the ability to observe and judge, which is important in deciding who has depth and trustworthiness, reliability etc
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 29 June 2017 at 11:41 am

                 You are overlooking the findings of numerous thinkers (who I can’t recall exactly) that most ideas and changes come from a very few people.

                 Not really. IMO, it’s wrong. All people have ideas all the time. The problem is that most of them aren’t heard.

                 The three or so million that you refer to are those who are given the chance to vote for some idea in elections, and many of them hardly bother to think and just trot off along their well-oiled railroad track to the usual tick. Some don’t bother at all.

                 That’s a matter of culture. Change the culture and we change society. Keeping it the same as is or taking it back to the 1930s isn’t going to bring about the changes that we need.

                 The solutions to the problems of the Now aren’t to be found in the Past.

                 We need people who care to think

                 We need to get everybody to care and to think. Then we’ll have the mass of ideas that will realise a solution.

                 And I want to look at people’s demeanour to check out their plausability, even with skype people lack the ability to observe and judge, which is important in deciding who has depth and trustworthiness, reliability etc

                 We already have personality cults – they don’t work.

                 What we need is people reading the scientific findings and then making sure that policy meets those findings.
                 • greywarshark …

                   29 June 2017 at 3:39 pm

                   DTB
                   Too much wishful thinking there. The world can’t wait for ideal situations to arise and I don’t trust the average person to turn into a research oriented decision maker.
         • David Mac 3.1.2.1.2

           28 June 2017 at 7:44 pm

           Hi Draco, I’ve run out of reply buttons, I’m responding to this comment.

           “Do you see an equality of misery and hardship all about you?

           No, I see a massive increase in poverty while a few bludgers get richer. Was about the same in the USSR, the DPRK and China as well. A few very well off while many aren’t.

           Yes household poverty is a concern, the government taking control of all houses and distributing them via a show of hands is not a solution.

           Why would the government be distributing them?
           And isn’t that what ‘the market’ does?

           Massive inequality is what capitalism does and it’s what eventually destroys a society. That bit hasn’t gone away as the rise in inequality and poverty prove. We’re still destroying ourselves to make a few greedy bludgers richer.”
           .
           .
           .
           .

           New Zealanders don’t want the Government owning everything Draco. I fear the good ideas you have are overshadowed by your extreme core solutions. Capitalism isn’t the culprit, we’re just doing it wrong. Your efforts should benefit my life and mine yours. We need to re-jig what we’ve got, not chuck it all out.

           At the moment too much of the wealth we create and circulate leaves our country. We need to get better at using it to enhance each other’s lives.

           I hear in the news today that Google got fined 3.7 billion dollars for directing searchers to retail websites they have an interest in. How much have they got away with? That’s where capitalism sux.

           Me selling you a loaf of bread I made and you making sandwiches to sell to office workers…it’s not evil brother.
   • David Mac 3.2

     28 June 2017 at 9:24 am

     There are only 3 ways to grow any business, whether that business be a lawn-mowing round or a nation.

     Get more customers.
     Get more from the customers you’ve got.
     Cut overheads.

     I think we need to focus on the rate we gobble through our resources. Rather than giant slabs of 20,000 year old kauri being shipped to China. The ship’s hold should be filled with presentation boxes of 20,000 year old chop-sticks. Much of the appeal of this wood in China is due to it’s age. Chinese civilization dates back about 20,000 years too. There’s a great marketing story to tell.
     • Molly 3.2.1

       28 June 2017 at 10:37 am

       Or consider not growing business at all.
       • Red 3.2.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 10:51 am

         Well done molly a very uninformed comment, let’s just stop human enterprise and improvement, business come and go if they stop providing value to me, you and everybody ie not productive or some one does it better , it’s not a zero sum game, think a little bit deeper
         • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 11:04 am

           Molly didn’t say anything about stopping enterprise or improvement. Just to stop growing business.

           Reality is a zero sum game. Believing otherwise is delusional.
           • David Mac 3.2.1.1.1.1

             28 June 2017 at 11:19 am

             When we stop growing we ripen, when we ripen we rot.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               28 June 2017 at 11:42 am

               We’d continue developing – we’d stop getting bigger.
           • Gosman 3.2.1.1.1.2

             28 June 2017 at 11:38 am

             Except the definition of economic growth is more to do with innovation than in using more of something.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               28 June 2017 at 11:41 am

               If that were true then the government and business wouldn’t be so concerned with increasing the number of people here or increasing the amount we export.
             • Gristle …

               28 June 2017 at 3:07 pm

               Having read more than a few economics books and studied economics and worked using economic theories and tools, I would suggest that as a starting point the definition of economic growth has little to do with innovation. As a method of increasing the rate of economic growth, innovation has a medium term to long term impact. A short term to medium term methods are as stated above:
               

               Get more customers.
               Get more from the customers you’ve got.
               Cut overheads.
         • Molly 3.2.1.1.2

           28 June 2017 at 12:19 pm

           Human enterprise and improvement is independent of growth.

           Both can be used to reduce use and impact. Growth is a ridiculous indicator to use for both improvement and enterprise, particularly if it is the only one.
     • Gosman 3.2.2

       28 June 2017 at 11:34 am

       Excellent idea. Why don’t YOU set up a business to do just that?
       • Molly 3.2.2.1

         28 June 2017 at 12:24 pm

         Or use my consumer dollars to support those who already do? Unnecessary duplication often leads to unsustainability and more waste.

         Setting up a business in a climate that rewards businesses that engage in paying non-livable wages, and have bad environmental practices does not appeal to me.
         I prefer the utilising and participating in the volunteer and sharing sector. I am lucky in that I don’t “need” much more than what I already have.

         Your response shows the limits to your perception of success and values alignment. Mine includes but is not limited to: owning a business.
         • xanthe 3.2.2.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 2:36 pm

           I’m with you molly on this.
           The mantra that “growth” is the only answer (whatever the question !) is just bullshit.
           There are many paths to a better quality of life, exponential growth of consumption is not one .
       • David Mac 3.2.2.2

         28 June 2017 at 1:50 pm

         I’ve got all the business I want in my chosen field Gosman. So why don’t YOU do it.
     • mauī 3.2.3

       28 June 2017 at 1:20 pm

       I don’t think we should be shipping ancient or old wood, water or other resources to anyone. It just seems wrong. Those resources should only be able to be used by locals in the area who understand their value. There’s no reason why a local community can’t produce much of what it needs in terms of food, housing and clothing. This may sound foreign to our heavily financialised world, but one thing it is, is sustainable.
       • David Mac 3.2.3.1

         28 June 2017 at 2:04 pm

         We’ve become heavily dependent on trade and the produce of other countries. We like electrical cable, Japanese cars and Spanish tomatoes in winter.

         I don’t have a problem with trade and utilising our resources I just think we need to get much smarter with it and add more value.

         Polar bears stay warm because their fur fibres are hollow. Their body warmth travels out through the fibre and creates a fabulous warm jacket for them. A jumper made of polar bear fur would be a natural garment with astounding natural body warming qualities. Scandinavians would pay about the equivalent of NZ$1000 for such a garment.

         Polar bears share this near unique quality with one other creature: Possums.
   • AB 3.3

     28 June 2017 at 9:44 am

     “or just worshipping tiny teams of sportspeople as if [it] means anything”
     Yes – I really do pity all those people who over the next few years will be required to attend ‘leadership workshops’ and be divided into groups and asked to come up with ideas on what it is about Team NZ that makes them ‘winners’, and then be asked to ‘present’ back to all the attendees on their findings and how they could be applied.
     And there will be a well-dressed (and well-paid) external ‘facilitator’ and numerous post-it notes will be written and stuck around the walls.
     And it will all mean absolutely f***ing nothing, and nothing will change and the few people with any originality will hate every minute of it and maybe stay sane by humming Tom Waits songs in their heads, or trying to remember a poem by Yeats about things falling apart.

     Really I think that our sclerotic, conformist, hierarchical workplaces hold us back.
     • Red 3.3.1

       28 June 2017 at 10:54 am

       I sympathise and share your view on leadership conferences AB
       • Halfcrown 3.3.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 11:17 am

         Well said Red and of course AB, I think we all have had experience of those over the years, though I thought it was a disease of the 80/90’s only, did not realise that crap is still going on.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.3.2

       28 June 2017 at 11:14 am

       Really I think that our sclerotic, conformist, hierarchical workplaces hold us back.

       QFT

       Went to one of those self-help things that tertiary institutions put on. It was supposedly all about making us stand out to employers but the reality was that it was all about getting people to conform and that conformity was dictated by those in power.

       Capitalism is about conforming to the greedy and it really does hold us back.
   • Trewindle 3.4

     28 June 2017 at 3:55 pm

     Technically our product base has regressed massively when you consider the heavy industry capabilities we had until the 70s/80s. We built our own whiteware and textiles and even locomotives during the time you mention. Economically rather than diversifying NZ has pretty much shrunk the actual productive economy to barely beyond what pre-industrial societies were producing as their mainstay.
4. Muttonbird 4

   28 June 2017 at 9:14 am

   Bruce Plested ripping into National here. Plenty of soft National voters (i.e. those with a conscience and a vision beyond their own wallets) will hang off every word someone like Bruce Plested says.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/94132260/mainfreight-founder-turns-eye-to-social-and-environmental-issues
   • Ad 4.1

     28 June 2017 at 9:29 am

     Pleated and Braid have been sane voices in an insane economy.
     • Ad 4.1.1

       28 June 2017 at 10:59 am

       Ahem. Plested.
       • s y d 4.1.1.1

         28 June 2017 at 12:21 pm

         This is the self same Mr Plested who is on record as a large donor to the National Party.
         • tc 4.1.1.1.1

           28 June 2017 at 2:37 pm

           And braids minfreight doing very nicely out of the ‘anti rail’ policies national have, heavier trucks, lower real wages etc

           Bet they both fall into line with the old ‘they listened and we’re backing them now’ bs these shills switch to on the GE run in.
   • ianmac 4.2

     28 June 2017 at 9:43 am

     Bruce says, “The problems could not be fixed by the market but were like law and order issues politicians should deal with.”
     But Joyce/English/Key et al, all swear by Market Forces. They must be right.
     Aren’t they?
     • greywarshark 4.2.1

       28 June 2017 at 2:15 pm

       The recipe for economic riches from laissez faire and muscular business individuality has apparently been wanting something. Rising powder?

       Perhaps the ingredients have passed their use-by date and have lost their freshness and spark of energy after being bled and bleached for years, many just left sitting at dockside waiting for someone to pay the costs of importation.
5. millsy 5

   28 June 2017 at 10:00 am

   RE: Todd Barclay.

   It seems that young National Party MP’s are too hungover after a night’s partying to show up for work the next day. They may have to use migrant MP’s instead 🙂
   • Gosman 5.1

     28 June 2017 at 11:39 am

     No they will leave that to the Labour party as they have experience of doing that.
     • grumpystilskin 5.1.1

       28 June 2017 at 11:59 am

       We are all immigrants here, some just arrived later then others. Where’s your cut off point on becoming tangata whenua, 1/5/10/100+ years?
   • Sabine 5.2

     28 June 2017 at 3:25 pm

     it’s as the double dipper said

     Kiwi blokes are useless…….

     we need indeed some migrant MP’s to fill the slots for which we can’t find qualified applicants with a clean police record and or at the very least an applicant who can hold his liquor and show up for work the next day.
     • greywarshark 5.2.1

       29 June 2017 at 5:56 pm

       Yes and they would probably come cheaper. All around NZpollies don’t shape up well on the political olympics.
6. Red 6

   28 June 2017 at 1:30 pm

   Dam that’s inconvenient as reported by stuff.co.nz Labour also uses leadership budget to satisfy internal employment issues and ensure confidentiality I assume to avoid public scrutiny of a private matter (fair enough barring sanctimonious comments of many labour supporters here ) ) by avoiding going to court

   [you want to make assertions of fact in this political climate, then put up a link and quote the relevant piece that supports your assertion (no, I’m not going to trawl an article to try and see what you mean). Otherwise I will considering you to be trolling and ban you. Consider this a warning. I’d also suggest using punctuation because once I get my moderator hat on if I have to read your comment 3 times in order to understand it, I consider that wasting my moderator time. – weka]

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
   • Gabby 6.1

     28 June 2017 at 1:40 pm

     For people they don’t employ?
   • McFlock 6.2

     28 June 2017 at 1:54 pm

     got a link? It’s not that I don’t trust you, it’s just that I don’t trust your grip on reality.
     • weka 6.2.1

       28 June 2017 at 2:03 pm

       I don’t trust them or their grip on reality.
7. mauī 7

   28 June 2017 at 1:53 pm

   CNN gets caught out pushing the unbelievable bullshit “It’s all Russia’s fault” line. Not that this should be surprising.

   http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-27/cnn-exposed-undercover-sting-producer-admits-russia-story-fake-news-pushed-ratings-0
8. Robert Atack 8

   28 June 2017 at 2:07 pm

   That would have been 2001 ish, and the prediction is still running. But WTF if people want to gamble then go for it
   7.3 billion or 9 billion people, it don’t matter to the planet we are all gone burger
   I haven’t got kids so I don’t give a fuck, just like pointing out the obvious, you know stacking the ‘I told you so’s’
   Quite simply the king has no clothes, but 99.4 ish of the pesants can see the brown eye the TPTB are shoving in your faces, the joke is on us all.

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   
9. Halfcrown 9

   28 June 2017 at 2:07 pm

   This is interesting, just before the election as well.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/333995/nz-officials-told-to-release-info-on-us-billionaire

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/326696/thiel's-nz-citizenship-one-of-a-kind
10. swordfish 10

    28 June 2017 at 2:21 pm

    From young Ricky Harman at Politik

    Maori Party makes another move to squeeze Winston out – Politik

    The Maori Party are today unveiling another strategic alliance which National are quietly hoping will get the party enough votes, so National doesn’t need Winston Peters to form the next Government.

    Today’s alliance will be with the One Pacific; a South Auckland-based Pacific Islands political movement

    The goal is to make inroads in Labour’s fortress South Auckland seats and Pacific Island candidates will stand under the Maori Party banner.

    The Maori Party leadership believe the partnership could make inroads into the　 50,000 votes that Labour got in Mangere, Manukau East and Manurewa last election.

    Dear oh dear – this The South Auckland Pasifikas are about to defect en masse meme gets trotted out almost each and every Election (also in the 2010 Mana By-Election in terms of Porirua East Pasifika voters) and always gets dutifully regurgitated by the MSM.

    Yet strangely enough these highly excitable predictions Never Ever seem to come true.
    • Muttonbird 10.1

      28 June 2017 at 2:27 pm

      I think ordinary families can see it for what it is – National elites and Maori elites and Pacific elites all lining their own pockets.
11. Robert Atack 11

    28 June 2017 at 2:25 pm

    All us nobreeders (currently about 3 billion of us) are victims of our parents egos
    I didn’t ask to be born, and have done my best not to add to this clusterfuck
    Parents are a major part of the problem ….. thanks mum
    And before a dickhead suggests I kill myself … it is not my fault.
    But yes sucide is very much in my future, as it will be for most people
    See 22After.Com warning don’t watch this alone 😉

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
12. weka 12

    28 June 2017 at 2:53 pm

    Anyone know how to make Greenpeace’s URLs into ordinary ones instead of the client ID tracking ones?

    Click on one of these campaigns to see what I mean

    http://www.greenpeace.org/new-zealand/en/
    • McFlock 12.1

      28 June 2017 at 3:15 pm

      One of the reasons I find greenpeace easy to resist: a friend of mine signed a petition, then got cold-called in the middle of a meeting by someone shilling for gp donations. I’m amenable to some of their causes, but their marketing techniques are corporate mercenary through and through.
      • weka 12.1.1

        28 June 2017 at 5:47 pm

        They could have at least use a URL that could be edited. Don’t know what their thinking is, maybe they care if people link them.
        • weka 12.1.1.1

          28 June 2017 at 6:43 pm

          *don’t care.
13. adam 13

    28 June 2017 at 2:59 pm

    Not sure if this is the right site anymore for a topic like this.

    Brig. Gen. Hugh McAslan (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11824303) has said that we are using white phosphorus on civilian targets.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm

    It was used as a incendiary munition. An important distinction.

    Now folks this is being led by NZ, and they are killing civilians. If this is what Key meant by getting some guts. Then God help us all. This is what the rabbit hole looks like.

    Oh, and here is the piece where they admit they are using it in civilian areas.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/06/13/532809626/u-s-led-coalition-has-used-white-phosphorous-in-fight-for-mosul-general-says
    • weka 13.1

      28 June 2017 at 6:44 pm

      seems an appropriate topic for here.
      • In Vino 13.1.1

        28 June 2017 at 8:32 pm

        Sobering, saddening.. Technology and (false) news dissemination improve, but if anything human behaviour seems to flatline at bottom.
14. repateet 14

    28 June 2017 at 4:37 pm

    I admire Michelle Boag’s ability to do impersonations. I particularly like the fine nuances she can bring to them.

    She’s just been doing an impersonation of a slime-ball on RNZ and was bloody brilliant. What really took it to a higher level was the way she finished it off wth the touches of ‘arrogant hag.’ Bravo Michelle.
    • ianmac 14.1

      28 June 2017 at 4:44 pm

      Just heard the Miserable Michelle Boag on RNZ twisting the “facts” against Nigel Haworth. Spiteful I think?
      • Ed 14.1.1

        28 June 2017 at 8:01 pm

        Can’t imagine why Mora has her on the panel
15. Tony Veitch (not etc) 15

    28 June 2017 at 4:54 pm

    Sorry, I don’t know how to select part of a video – or even if this is possible – but listen to the first 13 minutes of Thom Hartman and Dr. Richard Wolff discuss the American health care system.

    I thought, this man (Wolff) is talking about New Zealand – especially in relation to the Employment Contracts Act!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT
16. ianmac 16

    28 June 2017 at 5:29 pm

    Just watched John Campbell visit the Marae where the students are staying. Looks pretty good to me. The students were not allowed to speak during the visit but a small group will be on air after 6pm.
    Gives a balance after the political storm created by Government sources.
    (Mr Phillips points out that most groups are there for just a few days so communal living is a bit harder for longer stays.)
    • James 16.1

      29 June 2017 at 10:56 am

      So a small group of “pIcked” students were allowed to talk and shin horror stayed on the prescribed message.

      If it was balanced they would have allowed access to any of them. Gutless.

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