Open mike 29/11/2019

32 comments on “Open mike 29/11/2019 ”

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1. cleangreen 1

   29 November 2019 at 8:20 am

   Did anyone else hear yesterday's early around the 7am RNZ news when Lisa Owens was stating that a leakier has released a document linking NZ First to arranging funding for the party?

   It seemed at the time to be a hot story she was sending, among the current investigation going on by the Electoral Commission and may have been a hoax?

   So since then the story was not repeated again, – did anyone hear that?.

   If Lisa made an error will she be fired?
   • ianmac 1.1

     29 November 2019 at 9:08 am

     Lisa Owens is not usually on at 7am Clean. Could not find any record of such a leak on Thursday's program

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/20191128
     • Anne 1.1.1

       29 November 2019 at 3:21 pm

       That would have been a promo for her Checkpoint show between 5 and 6pm cleangreen. They always pick a soundbite from the previous evening which is supposed to whet the cerebral appetite.
       • cleangreen 1.1.1.1

         29 November 2019 at 4:47 pm

         Thanks Anne & Ianmac,

         Yes maybe it was a promo as I had just awaken and turned RNZ on and she was going hard at it so I tuned out and never heard the end because it was off the wall for me at that early time.

         Cheers for that, a promo from Lisa Owens is most probably was.
   • arkie 1.2

     29 November 2019 at 9:14 am

     Document leak: Why the NZ First Foundation was set up

     Key documents about a mysterious foundation loaning money to New Zealand First have been leaked to RNZ, detailing why the New Zealand First Foundation was set up, how it would operate and who knew about the idea from the outset.

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/404385/document-leak-why-the-nz-first-foundation-was-set-up

     This is the article you are referring to? It appears to be an Espiner joint, nor does it seem to be a hoax.
     • ianmac 1.2.1

       29 November 2019 at 10:42 am

       Very interesting arkie and cleangreen.

       This bit stood out:

       "The precedent is clear. It is the National Party's National Foundation. In essence this proposal suggests a cloning of that model into the New Zealand First Foundation," the document says. "There can be little doubt that the model is legally sound and is operated in a manner that meets all legal and ethical obligations."

       But Bridges is calling for a full enquiry so will that be extended to National's Foundation?
       • Sabine 1.2.1.1

         29 November 2019 at 12:50 pm

         hahahahahahah
   • OnceWasTim 1.3

     29 November 2019 at 2:23 pm

     I think its Owen (singular @cleangreen, though I can't be certain given a lot of people's desire to pluralise S'John (going forward)

     And if you heard it in the mouring, was more likely to be a Fergusson.

     Can't be certain these days tho' eh bro? A Fergusson here and an Owen there.

     What's a big of partisan populist fuckwittery 'tween and twixt frenz (even those that come with benefits).

     I think the problem is with all those 'other people' – possibly all those "ONES" the gummint's official stakeholders are unwilling to consult with (in this space, going forward, AND in the fullness of time)

     Could be wrong tho' eh bro'! Good things apparently take time these days eh?

     So even as spatial awareness diminishes (and all that goes with that), AND as change becomes faster and faster, we're assured that the responses to it should get slower ans slower – might be better to just drop the big OD now and be done with it eh?
     • cleangreen 1.3.1

       29 November 2019 at 4:54 pm

       OncewasTim

       Yes that was the one for sure, and Lisa was banging it out like it was a 21st century miracle development but it appears to be cloned to most political parties now for reasons we are awaiting to find out.

       Media are very hungry for any story now it seems..
2. A 2

   29 November 2019 at 9:26 am

   The Ministry of Health continues to exhibit symptoms…the latest is insisting on telling cute little girls who once were overflowing with joy and confidence "fat".

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12289228

   But Carey said it was a bizarre measure. As a result of the test: "Short people think they are thinner than they are, and tall people think they are fatter.

   "What worries me is families who may really want support don't get it because their child has been categorised as being a healthy weight and some families don't actually need the referral but they think they do," Carey said.

   Wellington mum Kym Clough said her daughter Abby, now 7, was told by a Plunket nurse she was fat at the age of 4 and, three years on, the comment has stuck.

   "She'll finish a two-hour tap class and say 'Mummy do you think I've lost weight?'

   "As a parent it's awful knowing she is constantly thinking about her body image like that," Clough told the Herald.

   The mum-of-two said she remembers coming home after the B4SC and crying thinking she was a bad mother.

   "I was horrified because she eats healthy, we grow our own vegetables and are not the type of family who sit in front of the TV for ages.

   "The next day I took my daughter to kindy and asked the kindy teachers if they thought she was fat, because I knew they would be honest, and they said absolutely not."

   Clough said hearing the nurse tell her daughter she was fat came as a huge shock because she was always an active kid.

   "Even from a young age we would go to the park and she wouldn't walk, she'd run and my brother would always say she's going to be a gymnast or a long-distance runner."

   Well that was before, now after assistance from the Ministry of Health she might end up with an eating disorder instead. I hope she learns to love herself more than the opinions of healthcare professionals.
3. greywarshark 3

   29 November 2019 at 10:55 am

   Is this going to be an intelligent investment in a world being ruined by technical developments and their consequences?

   The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) commissioned Deloitte Access Economics to develop the plan which sets out goals and actions for how the city will become a world recognised aerospace hub.

   https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1911/S00585/christchurch-plan-to-be-nzs-aerospace-testbed-by-2025.htm
   • Sabine 3.1

     29 November 2019 at 12:52 pm

     no worse then moving the port to whangarai and then building a 4 lane road to truck the goods back to AKL and beyond.

     But then i am not an economist.
     • greywarshark 3.1.1

       29 November 2019 at 1:31 pm

       The port moving and the four lane highway are two different things. We have to keep on doing things. The economy has to keep grinding on, but keeping on dropping a cog, trying for an adequate sustainable level not 8-10% return on capital, and keeping climate change in mind all the time.

       Like I think a railway north would be a good idea for transporting the goods. But what about extreme heat on the rail tracks I wonder. They could buckle and derail. I will have a look on google.

       Google – People in a speed train affected. https://mashable.com/article/train-tracks-climate-change-warping/ Germany

       France http://www.rfi.fr/en/environment/20190726-french-railroad-tracks-can-t-keep-extreme-heat

       USA https://www.climatecentral.org/news/climate-change-warp-railroad-tracks-sun-kinks-17470

       India has let its vital railway system run down. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-28156439

       Smart tech fixes all!! https://www.smartrailworld.com/5-fascinating-future-rail-trends-and-when-we-can-expect-to-see-them

       Practical methods: How we prevent tracks from getting too hot: We work closely with specialist weather forecasters and local weather stations to make necessary plans and take action so rails are less likely to buckle.

       • Our teams check track stability each winter as part of ongoing maintenance, and strengthen any weak parts before summer.
       • We paint certain parts of the rail white so they absorb less heat – and expand less. Typically, a rail painted white is 5°C to 10°C cooler than one left unpainted.
       • As most track is made up of long pieces of rail that are stretched and welded together, there is much less chance of buckling in very high temperatures because there is reduced compression.
       • When a track is made up from short rails bolted together, we leave small gaps between each one so that expansion doesn’t cause a problem.
       • We’re always improving how we measure and calculate rail temperatures. One way we’re doing this is by installing probes that alert us when track temperatures rise to give us chance to take action and stop a problem before it happens.
       • In some parts of Britain’s rail network, tracks are laid on reinforced concrete slabs rather than on sleepers and ballast (the bed of stones that supports the sleepers). This helps to prevent rails from buckling. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/delays-explained/buckled-rail-and-summer-heat/
       • Sabine 3.1.1.1

         29 November 2019 at 1:36 pm

         you dont' really have to explain trains to me.- I grew up in Germany, lived in France and have never owned a car. Not even in NZ have i owned a car.

         Seriously, i grew up with them, they are my preferred method of transport and no one is gonna build a train up to Whangarai. You are lucky if you get a 4 lane highway that will then be destroyed by trucks like any other highway in NZ that is covered in Trucks.

         In this country we can't even build a commuter train to hamilton/rotorua/wellington etc. Heck we can't even build a train to AKL Airport.

         But they are gonna build a train to Whangarai. Yeah, right Tui.
         • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1

           29 November 2019 at 4:00 pm

           You will come in handy if there is a fire by you. You have the biggest supply of wet blankets in NZ.
         • Sacha 3.1.1.1.2

           29 November 2019 at 4:05 pm

           All those rail projects are coming, despite any amount of denial or whinging about them. A 4-lane motorway north on the other hand is just a Nat/banker fantasy.
           • Molly 3.1.1.1.2.1

             29 November 2019 at 4:28 pm

             A 4-lane motorway north on the other hand is just a Nat/banker fantasy.

             Yep. Here's hoping.
           • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.2.2

             29 November 2019 at 5:00 pm

             Sasha try reading this logic

             Subject; Article below entitled; “The Hidden Trucking Industry Subsidy” This US based article shows we ‘public’ give an exorbitant unfair amount of subsidy to the trucking industry. We now want the Transport Minister to please drive around regional NZ and just see the impacts of 50 to 60 tonne “B train ‘trucks and their destruction of our “soft roads” that do not even have an adequate under base to carry the 50+ tonne laden weight trucks, as they need a ‘steel mesh reinforced concrete base’ as US/Canadian and EU roads have installed under their truck routes.

             https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/

             Quote; Freight trucks cause 99% of wear-and-tear on US roads, but only pay for 35% of the maintenance. This $60B subsidy causes extra congestion and pollution, and taxpayers pay the bill. SO; This is a question for NZTA “why is it fair that the NZ taxpayer gives trucking industry a subsidy and not our own publicly owned rail”? We must now request ‘public’ money for roading must also be given to restoring our public owned regional rail. Since this document came out we know that the public is massively funding road repairs for private trucking companies so now we need to level the playing field for rail as it is a public owned entity owned by us taxpayers so we now desperately need at least an equal 50% contribution of the ‘public road funding’ be given to rail to restore the regional rail services around NZ. Here are the plain facts;

             https://truecostblog.com/2009/06/02/the-

             hidden-trucking-industry-subsidy/ The Hidden Trucking Industry Subsidy Freight trucks cause 99% of wear-and-tear on US roads, but only pay for 35% of the maintenance. This $60B subsidy causes extra congestion and pollution, and taxpayers pay the bill….. more to come so read all.
             • Sacha …

               29 November 2019 at 8:24 pm

               Well aware, thank you. The more rail replacing freight the better.
         • Molly 3.1.1.1.3

           29 November 2019 at 4:13 pm

           There used to be a train to the Far North – the North Auckland Line went to Whangarei. The grading for most of the tracks still remain.

           The Okaihau branch which went from Opua on the North Auckland line, was intended to reach Kaitaia but was never completed. Some of the graded tracks are part of the northern cycleway.
         • Naki man 3.1.1.1.4

           29 November 2019 at 10:01 pm

           I think there will be a train and a 4 lane highway to Whangarei, they will need them when the port moves their. It might take another ten or fifteen years.
4. Karol121 4

   29 November 2019 at 3:02 pm

   I am posting in relation to the Julian Assange matter, which drew a lot of attention here on TS yesterday, but this is not entirely Julian Assange specific, so I post it today on Open Mike.

   The treatment of both remand and convicted prisoners by prison authorities, including assessing and intervention in an attempt to ensure that both the physical and mental well being of the prisoner is adequate, can often be seen as equating to, or consistent with the general attitude and culture of the both the state, and society in any ne jurisdiction.

   So for example, compare our prisons with prisons in say, Thailand or South America, and equate it to attitude, demographic and both culture and what is believed to be acceptable.

   If we were to take a look at the Jeffery Epstein incarceration and death in custody, we might detect that many in New York probably privately believe that it was the best outcome and acceptable given the allegations. Of course, rightly or wrongly, New Zealand takes a lot of markers and cues from the United States of America in relation to justice, law and order principles, even though we are more closely aligned to England, Australia and even Canada.

   So, in relation to what happened to Epstein, why have many throughout the United States, or at least throughout New York not expressed seriously concerns, and why are they not insisting on finding out just what occurred?

   Well, perhaps they should be, not so much out of a concern as to what Epstein went through personally once incarcerated, but in relation to what they or others they care about might also undergo if they were ever to find themselves on remand, and subject to less publicly visible hostility of one sort or another.

   I have no doubt that the Jeffery Epstein attitude held by many also applies to people considered to be traitors or whistle blowers leaking national security material.

   The litmus test in relation to the above "traitor" assessment might relate to the general determination of motivation and the overall detrimental impact or damage caused by such disclosures. Also, the extent (if any) of any subversion attempt if subversion was believed to be an objective.

   Many believe Julian Assange to be a traitor, but many also consider him simply to be a former political commentator or journalist who is being politically targeted, and perhaps quite cruelly.

   Who will win out in relation to this (suspected) game of cat and mouse is anybody's guess.

   Whichever way it pans out, it seems very unlikely that Julian Assange will emerge from it gaining or winning much of anything at all.

   Mainstream media have utilised him and dropped him, and they have latterly had their fun with him as well. He certainly brings in advertising revenue for them by way of the various news article presented and associated with him.

   Despite cries of little or no transparency and of prisoner maltreatment, most people just leave the system, or the law of the prison jungle to "do what it wilt" on many occasions. This is how society usually behaves, especially when their focus is regularly redirected (and occasionally misdirected) here, there and elsewhere. There is so much going on.

   Prison managers and all staff have duty of care to the prisoners they manage and house.

   Both psychiatric and psychological evaluations should be regularly made on high (personal and health) risk prisoners such as Assange, and the evaluations should be both free of any personal bias by the assessors, and free from any undue influence further up the ladder.

   This of course is an idealised, would be, should be, could be deliberation by me. In reality, who really can determine how it works from one day to the next, or from one situation to another?

   Locally, and more especially on Howard League, it is clear that so many support an overhaul of one kind or another. This is healthy. Never stop taking an interest in these matters, and never stop asking questions when they need to be asked.

   Perhaps this would be an opportune time to continue to vocalise as a lobby group whilst also lending support to those MP's and both those local body representatives and candidates who have a track record of approaching the matter realistically and supporting change if or where it is needed.

   I can think of two MP's already, (focused less on the driving licence aspect and more on the generic). Both are Labour Crown Ministers, and are well respected.

   Another ran for Auckland mayoralty recently and appears to have had a lot of support in relation to attempting to realistically address many social reform issues, and where prison reform is actually one of them.

   Why not seize the opportunity to push for positive change this time if you believe that change must take place in New Zealand?
5. Sacha 5

   29 November 2019 at 4:20 pm

   The marketers have been all over this one. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12289584

   The Tohu (symbol) is shaped by our natural landscape which stretches from the top of the Southern Alps to the depths of our moana. Taking the form of the letter 'C' but expressed in a way that is unique to us. It nods to our legacy while moving us forward.

   …

   Ultimately, it was decided that no name better represented the club's commitment to living its values – crusading for social improvement and inclusiveness, and crusading with heart for our community and for each other – than 'Crusaders' did.

   Yep, it's some sort of Māori social improvement agency, not a ruddy sporting entertainment corporation rooted in posh school classics.
   • McFlock 5.1

     29 November 2019 at 6:32 pm

     I think they scraped all that up after one of their horsies trotted by with a chap in a suit of armour on its back.
   • SPC 5.2

     29 November 2019 at 6:33 pm

     1. (verb) (-a,-ina,-ngia,-tia) to instruct, advise, save the life of, spare, guide, direct, instruct, appoint.
     2. (verb) (-a,-ina,-ngia,-tia) to point out, show, indicate, point at, gesticulate.
     3. (verb) (-a,-ina,-ngia,-tia) to preserve, conserve.
     4. (verb) (-a) to perform a ritual.

     https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?&keywords=tohu

     They looked for a Maori word/expression/symbol to connect to the Crusaders brand and localise/modernise it. And no connotation of violence …
6. Eco maori 6

   1 December 2019 at 5:52 am
7. Eco maori 7

   1 December 2019 at 6:30 pm

   Kia Ora 1 News.

   Condolences to the family of the people who we losted on London Bridge.

   That's the great phenomenon about Aotearoa there is only one predator to worry about humans?????.

   Its good to see Tuhoe history told in art Ka pai.

   Ka kite Ano
8. Eco maori 8

   1 December 2019 at 6:47 pm

   Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

   Ka pai to Monga Taranaki getting its real name back.

   I remember that lol.

   Ka kite Ano
9. Eco maori 9

   2 December 2019 at 8:33 am

   Kia Ora 1 News.

   Its great to see a Wahine get given Mana.

   I see that working with mother natures creatures is a great way for humanity to live a learn.

   Ka kite Ano
10. Eco maori 10

    2 December 2019 at 11:21 am
11. Eco maori 11

    2 December 2019 at 6:27 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    We need to become carbon neutral.

    Ka kite Ano.
12. Eco maori 12

    2 December 2019 at 6:51 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I agree with Ngai Te

    Rangi in Tauranga Aotearoa it should be tangata whenua welcoming visitors in Maori not other cultured people.

    That's the way Opotiki tangata our mokopuna coming into this World are very important so champion for your maternity unit to stay open in Opotiki.

    That's awesome Maori and Pacific tangata mahi together to get better health treatment and other things to help our mokopuna.

    Ka kite Ano

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