Open mike 29/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:21 am, August 29th, 2014 - 162 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

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162 comments on “Open mike 29/08/2014 ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    29 August 2014 at 6:22 am

    The cray cray level of this campaign level has been dialed up a few notches.  Cunliffe convincingly bet Key in the first debate.  It may be that Key was distracted by rumors that a Judith Collins staffer had approached Winston Peters to discuss the possibility of NZ First supporting a Collins led government.

    Key always talks about stable government.  If the rumor is true National is in turmoil.

    • tc 1.1
      29 August 2014 at 7:19 am

      Winstons time is nigh, revenge is a dish etc etc. Keys delivery was terrible and the albatross that is collins was nailed on. Hope those unemployment numbers key and DC disagreed on get some air as the flat out ‘no they aren’t ‘ from JK shows an out of touch wilfully deceptive trader man in action.

      Hosking was better than expected but still not up to the task of being even, it’s just not in his nature.

      • s y d 1.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 9:27 am

        From the BOP times…..

        “New Zealand First Tauranga candidate Clayton Mitchell said his party was now in a strong position: “We are now in a position to negotiate with National and get what we are after and that is what is best for New Zealand.””

    • brian 1.2
      29 August 2014 at 11:07 am

      I am only guessing, but the person who spoke to Winston Peters sounds like David Farrar.
      .
      In the last few days his research company was including Bill English in a list of “preferred Prime Minister” where Bill was the only person not currently a party leader. Why would he have done that?
      .
      Winston was approached before the Orivada scandal when Collins was in her ascendency, and Whaleoil/Farrar were trying to “help” her. I doubt that there was anything wrong in what he did (it sounds like the typical leadership plotting that happens in many parties), and I also doubt that Collins was aware of what he was doing.
      .
      Farrar is extremely aware of the power of information, and getting information on possible replacements for John Key – Judith Collins earlier this year, and Bill English now would feed this. Or it may simply have been an attempt to “get to know” Winston, in a personal desire to have connections with all the important political players.

      • brian 1.2.1
        29 August 2014 at 11:21 am

        This is what Farrar says about the person who spoke to Winston Peters: (from kiwiblog)

        I’m 95% certain I know who Peters is referring to. He is
        not an MP. He is not an official of the National Party. And
        he is not close to Judith Collins. In fact I don’t think he has
        had a conversation with her in almost three years!!! I’ve
        had more conversations with Winston Peters in the last two
        years than this person has had with Judith Collins, so does
        that mean if I say something, it can be seen as being on
        behalf of Winston Peters?

        Which still leaves open the possibility that the person was Farrar himself.

      • Tracey 1.2.2
        29 August 2014 at 11:44 am

        I was polled by Curia.

        They asked us to rate party leaders and then included bill english. He was not listed as a preferred prime minister

    • yeshe 1.3
      29 August 2014 at 12:16 pm

      Mickey .. maybe worth noting this was prior to the main Oravida scandal, according to Winston on TV3 this morning. And Winston is willing to swear an affidavit no less.

    • blue leopard 1.4
      29 August 2014 at 1:47 pm

      …and now that we have witnessed the insulting treatment dished out to Mr Cunliffe/Labour all year by the media with their ongoing fantastical, ‘don’t-just-report-the-story-make-it-up’ questioning of whether the Labour caucus should ditch their leader, I am exceedingly interested to see whether the media are going to play the questioning over the National leadership for as long and hard as they have done so with Labour.

      I wait with bated breath.

  2. CnrJoe 2
    29 August 2014 at 6:34 am

    Bet key? Beat key? I didn’t see it!

  3. phillip ure 3
    29 August 2014 at 6:50 am

    comments still vanishing..

    [lprent: From the behaviour it appears that some security patch from a few days ago doesn’t like odd punctuation, like .. and ://. I will probably have to limp through to the weekend before I have time to find and fix it. ]

  4. phillip ure 4
    29 August 2014 at 7:01 am

    i had high expectations of cunnliffe last nite..

    ..and that’s ‘cos..thru doing commentaries on q-time..i have probably seen more of cunnliffe in action than most..

    ..and i had seen many times how well he presents his arguments..how on top of the facts he is when doing this..

    ..but most of all..how he was able to rattle national/key..and in labour..he was best at that ‘rattling’..

    ..those observations made then are why i supported cunnliffe to lead labour..

    ..’cos i knew he wd be able to foot it against key…

    ..and he didn’t disappoint..

    • Saarbo 4.1
      29 August 2014 at 8:11 am

      Agree, I have been contacted by 2 non political, middle of the road voters this morning saying “Wow, David Cunliffe was amazing, why haven’t we seen him like this before”, which I think is really interesting.
      The fact that people haven’t seen much of the real Cunliffe is an indictment on our MSM media who have sucked up to their “insiders” and have made sure that DC doesn’t get any favourable coverage.
      I think the other biggie here is that National always knew that David Cunliffe would look good in the debates, that is why they have been on a concerted attack against him ever since he was voted Leader (helped by some self serving Labour insiders)…they have been affective given where Labour polls are currently.
      Perhaps the other point is that Nicky Hagar’s Dirty Politics book has exposed Key’s main tool: nasty attack lines. Without his nasty attack lines Key has had to try and use facts and policies, and consequently looks weak…”facts and policies” aren’t exactly National’s strengths.

  5. Awww 5
    29 August 2014 at 7:20 am

    Conservative Party is a “Pro White” party supported by the National Front.

    http://www.nationalfront.org.nz/?p=1288

    Does this make Colin Craig our version of Pauline Hanson?

    • weka 5.1
      29 August 2014 at 9:11 am

      I think that’s stretching it a bit. I’d want to see Craig’s response.

      • adam 5.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 10:40 am

        But you should not be surprised Weka. Colin and company are very white and very reactionary in their policies. They also bat shit crazy enough, to attract the bitter nasty right wing nut jobs.

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 10:48 am

          I’m not surprised that the white supremacists are attracted to the Conservatives, I just thought that a stronger connection was being made.

    • Rosie 5.2
      29 August 2014 at 10:15 am

      I thought Richard Prosser from NZ First would be more their kind of thing:

      “Richard Prosser said young men who were Muslim, “look like a Muslim” or came from a Muslim country should not be permitted to fly on “western” airlines, in an article he wrote for Investigate magazine.”

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/8293690/Racist-Prosser-slammed-over-Muslim-comments

      And yuck, NF give me the heeby geebies. I remember seeing one of their rallies. It was like swarm of hate.

      • adam 5.2.1
        29 August 2014 at 10:43 am

        No Rosie – the extreme authoritarian right are not just Muslim haters – oh no. They have a special kind of hate in their hearts for everyone who is not white, and thinking straight like them.

    • TheContrarian 5.3
      29 August 2014 at 10:21 am

      National Front supporting =/= Conservatives supporting the National Front

  6. b waghorn 6
    29 August 2014 at 7:31 am

    He trashed Key on every level. Any one who takes those Sort of poles seriously is a fool

  7. Awww 7
    29 August 2014 at 7:41 am

    What happens to the Whale if he can no longer generate $ from his blog? Back to the bene?

    • Rich 7.1
      29 August 2014 at 7:56 am

      He doesn’t generate enough money to pay for his tea and sugar from his blog in all likelihood. The money comes from Corporates and the National Party as per whaledump.

    • yeshe 7.2
      29 August 2014 at 12:20 pm

      sugar daddy ?

  8. One Anonymous Bloke 8
    29 August 2014 at 8:00 am

    Comments vanishing here too. Another try:

    Poisonous wingnut cancer closer to being publicly identified. Every single action taken by this filth while betraying New Zealand should be investigated and prosecuted where appropriate.

    Does anyone seriously expect this trash gave neutral advice?

    • weka 8.1
      29 August 2014 at 9:19 am

      I loved this,

      Slater said he would be telling police he believed Kim Dotcom was involved in the hacking due to “the fact that he was gloating, the fact that he’s made comments prior to this happening, a whole lot of other stuff”.

      Gloating as signifier of guilt? Does that mean half the country was part of the hacking?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 9:29 am

        What’s more significant is that Slater waited until now to go to the cops. My guess is he didn’t lay a complaint about the original hack because he didn’t want anyone with a badge knowing what he was up to, whereas now we all know he’s got very little to lose.

        • weka 8.1.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 9:33 am

          I got the impression he laid the complaint previously from Israel, but is only just now meeting with the police because he’s just back in the country. Don’t know when the complaint was laid though.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.1.1
            29 August 2014 at 9:45 am

            Why didn’t he lay it in January when his cesspool was attacked?

            • weka 8.1.1.1.1.1
              29 August 2014 at 9:54 am

              Ok, I see what you mean (I thought you meant why didn’t he lay the complaint when the book came out).

    • Murray Olsen 8.2
      29 August 2014 at 9:45 pm

      I loved the irony of the idiot calling poor people stupid in comments posted from a work computer. I’d say that’s fairly typical of the Blubber Army.

  9. Draco T Bastard 9
    29 August 2014 at 8:06 am

    And National’s smear machine still operates:

    BlogWatch columnist Peter Fowler looks at the controversy around the song “Kill the PM” and how misinformation about NZ On Air spread quickly through blogs and reader comments online.

  10. Draco T Bastard 10
    29 August 2014 at 8:08 am

    Another one bites the dust
    Another one bites the dust
    And another one gone, and another one gone
    Another one bites the dust
    Hey, I’m gonna get you, too
    Another one bites the dust

    Spam trap must be hungry.

  11. Tracey 11
    29 August 2014 at 8:17 am

    I have only just read toby manhire’s opinion piece from 15 August. It makes Garth George’s effort look foolish. The comments are entertaining too.

  12. Saarbo 12
    29 August 2014 at 8:18 am

    Collins on RNZ being interviewed by Suzie Ferguson…wow, COLLINS IS ANGRY.

    She even reckons there is “Cyber bullying on The Standard”…nah, just a bit of friendly banter, never seen any “cyber bullying “on here.

    • Tracey 12.1
      29 August 2014 at 8:37 am

      is she saying that IF there were cyber bullying on the standard her behaviour is vindicated. I think shes lost it. Minister of Justice?!?

    • vto 12.2
      29 August 2014 at 8:38 am

      well she should stop with the ridiculous forehead and eyebrows

    • Lanthanide 12.3
      29 August 2014 at 9:07 am

      You missed the part where Collins categorically said The Standard is a Labour party website.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.3.1
        29 August 2014 at 9:34 am

        Yeah, I wonder if they’ll be issuing an apology and retraction for the Minister’s lie.

        She was livid – “I despise Winston Peters’ racist policies…”

        • s y d 12.3.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 11:46 am

          and the part where she said she hadn’t read the cabinet manual…..

          • Lanthanide 12.3.1.1.1
            29 August 2014 at 11:50 am

            Actually she was saying she hadn’t read the email leaks, Suzie just mis-interpreted what she’d said.

        • Puddleglum 12.3.1.2
          29 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

          I thought Ferguson did well to follow up those repeated comments about Peters’ being racist and that he was “the last person” she would have contacted with the question about whether she could work with him in a coalition.

          She floundered around saying ‘that’s up to John Key’ but Ferguson reminded her that it was also up to her (she could decline to be a minister in such a Cabinet or government, for example).

        • Daveosaurus 12.3.1.3
          29 August 2014 at 7:18 pm

          ” “I despise Winston Peters’ racist policies…” ”

          I wonder if any journalist thought to ask her what she thought of Colin Craig’s racist policies, or Jamie Whyte’s racist policies…

      • Hanswurst 12.3.2
        29 August 2014 at 12:07 pm

        No. She didn’t say that it was “a Labour Party website”, she said that it was The Labour Party Website. Even worse. Either she is being deliberately misleading or she is pig-ignorant. Either would make her equally unfit to be police minister.

        • lprent 12.3.2.1
          29 August 2014 at 12:30 pm

          I’ll say. I will have to have a look at that.

        • Tracey 12.3.2.2
          29 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

          or Justice Minister. Isnt red Alert the labour party blog?

          I also recall recently, lprent, posting he would vote Greens. So he is not very good at bei g part of THE labour party blog…

      • emergency mike 12.3.3
        29 August 2014 at 12:26 pm

        Yep she said The Standard is a labour party website and that Cunliffe’s people use it for cyber-bullying.

    • adam 12.4
      29 August 2014 at 11:02 am

      Cyber bullying what a joke – a difference of opinion and butting of heads – yes. I think I’ve clashed with a few people here. But does that mean I carry on clashing with them, loss respect for them and hold a grudge – Hell no. Politics on the left is passionate and people get heated – and say silly things -I should know, I’ve done it a few times. But, we know what we want at the end of the day is a better society, that works for everyone – even if we disagree what form and shape that should take now and into the future. If at times sound rough, tough, and a bit abusive – it is the medium not the message.

      However attacking opponents who lie, and keep repeating the same lies over and over and push and ideological line which is anti-human, selfish and self indulgent. Well maybe Collins is right – because for some strange reason logic, or well formed rhetoric with these individuals does not work. No matter how many facts, figures or truths you put to them, they will always come back with the lie, the repetition, and the rigid ideological defence. I then point out the character flaws – if that is cyber bulling – then I’m a cyber bully.

      And silly question – why do the hard right always fall into rapid vicarious political correctness as a defence? As they seem to be the ones who say – political correctness is mad http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/tag/political_correctness

      but please you don’t need to follow the link.

    • blue leopard 12.5
      29 August 2014 at 12:52 pm

      My, my ‘what a sensitive wee sausage’ Collins turns out to be, when in hot water.

      And the water is hot due to her own bad, fractious and divisive behaviour.

      So no sympathy from this quarter.

      She needs to learn what the word ‘bully’ means, then perhaps she might learn to stop being one.

      Key needed to be a better leader to stop this type of stuff -undisciplined behaviour and disarray – proliferating.

      Big fail to you and your casual ‘hands off’ attitudes, Key.

  13. Tracey 13
    29 August 2014 at 8:24 am

    Is it too late for the dirty brigade in national to now leak to slater everything they can to spike colin’s party?

  14. Saarbo 14
    29 August 2014 at 8:37 am

    Interesting comment from Wayne Hope and Claire Robinson (Claire was angry too) on RNZ re last nights debate, both reckon that the debate has “cemented Cunliffe in as leader of the Labour Party post election”

    Hallef%&$#&lujah

    • crocodill 14.1
      29 August 2014 at 8:43 am

      Cunliffe will be so pleased since, like, a week ago, he confirmed he’d be around for 2017 election win or lose. Not a reassuring statement for leader to say going into a hard-win election, but I’m sure someone somewhere knows what it really means.

      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 9:07 am

        I’m pretty sure that that means that Cunliffe won’t be stepping down if Labour loses the election. Which, IMO, would be good.

  15. phillip ure 15
    29 August 2014 at 8:42 am

    “..Now why would companies that make opioids want to line the pockets of marijuana prohibitionists?..”

    http://www.alternet.org/leading-researchers-who-oppose-legal-pot-are-paid-painkiller-manufacturers

    • adam 15.1
      29 August 2014 at 3:35 pm

      OxyContin is one of the worst drugs ever invented. Period, if you have anyone use this drug for an extended period, you will know what I mean. I have advocated people off it to marijuana. Yeah pot can male you a bit spacey, but Oxy makes you dumb, incompetent and lifeless.

      Why am I not surprised by this wonder piece of investigative journalist by Lee Fang.

      In the States and here the gangs see Oxy as a good way to make money. Can we please grow up, and treat marijuana as a health issue – not a criminal one.

  16. crocodill 16
    29 August 2014 at 8:46 am

    The Standard spellcheck tells me Cunliffe is actually spelled Conifer. Do I want to add to dictionary? No, I like the idea that there might be a David Conifer somewhere planning a secret coup from his corner of the forest.

    • Lanthanide 16.1
      29 August 2014 at 9:09 am

      “The Standard” doesn’t have a spellcheck. It will be whatever browser you’re using.

    • David H 16.2
      29 August 2014 at 10:46 am

      For your browsers spell checker to assume that Conifer is Cunliffe, usually means you have told it that’s how it’s spelt.

      • crocodill 16.2.1
        29 August 2014 at 12:46 pm

        I suspect I’ve been hacked by a blogger close to The Green Party, to boost their support. Every time I write Booo Cunliffe! It’ll come up as Booo Conifer! and gardeners everywhere will be steeled in their resolve to vote Greens, just to teach me a lesson. Sneaky people, those Greens.

        [lprent: Or you could just add Cunliffe to your spell checker?

        Besides which it could be just a Lebanese conspiracy… ]

  17. marty mars 17
    29 August 2014 at 8:49 am

    Jeepers comments falling like the black-hole-memory of dirtkey.

    Go John, Go IMP, Go left, Go Labour, Go Greens Go you bloody beaut go!!!

    “Internet-Mana would have four MPs in Parliament including veteran activist John Minto, if its support in the latest Herald-DigiPoll survey were translated to an election result.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315806

    • yeshe 17.1
      29 August 2014 at 12:29 pm
      • 100 Marty ! Imagine what Question Time will become … yes, go, go go !!
    • weka 17.2
      29 August 2014 at 2:54 pm

      nice one marty, and good to see that voting for the IMP won’t be a wasted party vote 😉

      I hope they get enough to get Miriam Pierard in too (5% I believe).

      • adam 17.2.1
        29 August 2014 at 3:38 pm

        Miriam and Annette – one, two in the house!

        Would not the Tory scum, learn politeness and manners then?

        • phillip ure 17.2.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 3:50 pm

          it wd certainly wipe the habitual-sneers off their faces..

          ..and i was asked by an mp why i had stopped doing the commentaries on q-time..

          ..and i said i had got ‘bored’…

          ..but said that i fully expected to be doing them again..for the new parliament..

          ..’cos it will be anything but ‘boring’..

  18. Ffloyd 18
    29 August 2014 at 8:59 am

    I think key will be doing a midnight flit when he loses the election. There must be ton of dirt he hasn’t been able to shred or bury yet. No way will he be able to stay in NZ. Could be more stuff to come from whaledump yet. Collins might let us all know what she has on him. I wonder if he has broken his pledge not to drink alcohol until the election is over? I thought last night that he looked like a meerkat looking for a way out. He looked like a man without a plan. Aloha John key!!

    • s y d 18.1
      29 August 2014 at 9:40 am

      He looked like he was well and truly over the whole circus.

      What’s in it for JK now? He’s been the PM for 6 years, in his eyes (and many others) been fairly successful at it, but where to from here? Whats the upside for JK? All the good stuff has been sold, Chch assets will be stripped shortly, Auckland’s stuff can’t be got at. He’ll get his “Sir John” and the CV will be complete.

      The faeces are awfully close to the fan and I got the distinct impression JK feels it’s not worth the risk hanging around to find out where it’ll spray.

      Hand in pocket, waiting for the limo…………………

      • aerobubble 18.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 10:45 am

        JK been successful at spin and shining the turd blossom. He’s done nothing about housing, he’s lived off earnings from the ChCh and the Year of the Dragon Chinese Birth boom. The core problem with the NZ economy is the tax system rewards building a business as much as buying and selling homes! Think about that, which would you rather do to get wealthy, sit on your hands counting up the rental takings or have to use you noggings to fight world competition for profits.
        But wait its got worse. The GFC caused world national banks to print money, zero interest loans, and for life nor money Key can’t get it into his scrawny tiny economic head that cashed up foreign buyers get to out buy Kiwis. Sure if they stay fairs fair, but that’s not whats happening, absent owners of farmland and homes isn’t good for out economy, as that capital Key says he wants to attract goes straight into the non-productive housing market, or into raw production and offshoring of the added value chain. Its pretty much absymal from a right of center commerical point of view, unsaleable you’d think. But Key’s not going for the intelligent vote, he’s after the I want my tax cut because I don’t know were taxation comes from brigade. Tax cuts eventually reach a limit where they start eating the economy rather than revving it. Where the tax cut winners start sending their money overseas, or worse, pay more to buy into homes and assets!!!! due to foreigner bidding up the prices. Its reckless economics, breed from a time of luxury when cheap high density fuels got year on year cheaper.

        • yeshe 18.1.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 12:44 pm

          He will have made multi-millions out of NZ in his supposedly blind Aldgate Trust. Would not surprise me at all to discover down the track both Key and English gained multiples from the govt guarantee of SCF and its subsequent collapse.

          Why isn’t the Serious Fraud Office asking more question ?

        • Flipnz 18.1.1.2
          29 August 2014 at 7:36 pm

          +1 analysis. Doing better than the finance minister and treasury, media commentators and reserve bank.

  19. Keepcalmcarryon 19
    29 August 2014 at 9:28 am

    I noted the following:
    *Key noteably surprised at start when Hosking pushed him hard for an answer – put him off and he never recovered, JK was expecting usual patsy questions and had no where to hide. No answers without his team in his ear, it showed.
    *Hosking still a plonker albeit reasonably even handed (for him)
    * Cunliffe truly impressive, Ive not seen this man before.
    *TVNZ poll obvious bullshit.
    Give us more of this Cunliffe please.

  20. Tobias Tohill 20
    29 August 2014 at 9:32 am

    Well done David Cunliffe. My impression of you hadn’t been very good, but the debate last night changed has my mind and reading Dirty Politics has cemented my vote against Key and Collins. It’s time for a change of government – you have my vote. Best of luck for the election.

  21. logie97 21
    29 August 2014 at 10:23 am

    Latest Poll.

    Will be interesting to hear Key’s slant on the prospects of John Minto.

    John Minto earned his hatred by the Right through his involvement in the 1981 tour.
    Of course he has been in the forefront of many movements since, but none that
    would earn him the “opprobrium” of ’81. Only those “living” at the that time carry those feelings.

    Key will have to be careful how he comments, because it may just identify his position in the 1981 spectrum… “Oh, I can’t really remember.” Yeah Right.

    Perhaps the MSM might Key what he thinks of the possibility of John Minto getting into parliament.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315806

    • Undecided 21.1
      29 August 2014 at 11:00 am

      “Labour is continuing a decline and polled 24.1 in the new poll. It polled 30.5 per cent in June, 26.5 in July, and 25.2 last week.”

      “National is up marginally to 50.7 per cent and would be able to govern alone with 64 MPs.”

      This is a good start by David but lets not get too ahead of ourselves

      • logie97 21.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 11:07 am

        Undecided.
        … and your point is?
        The Link and discussion I have commented on is John Minto.
        Last I heard was that he is standing for Mana/IP.
        Where does my comment mention Labour or any other parties?

        (Unless of course your comment has been linked to my post 21 in error, in which case my apologies).

    • yeshe 21.2
      29 August 2014 at 12:33 pm

      In a different world, John Minto would have been New Zealander of the Year several times over !

      • kiwi_guy 21.2.1
        29 August 2014 at 3:34 pm

        If NZ had joined the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, then yeah possibly.

        • Murray Olsen 21.2.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 11:54 pm

          Quite the opposite, kiwi-guy. John Minto was not overly popular with the Soviet aligned Socialist Unity Party. Does your knowledge come from reading Whalespew and Kiwibog?

  22. aerobubble 22
    29 August 2014 at 10:33 am

    High house prices, high housing material costs, high rates. Work hard to be mugged. Welcome to John Key’s economy.

  23. logie97 23
    29 August 2014 at 10:50 am

    Education?
    Herald reporter Robb Kidd today equates exclusive (private) with “best.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315977

    “…former principal of one of the country’s best schools…”

    One hopes he is not one of the Herald’s education columnists.

    • aerobubble 23.1
      29 August 2014 at 11:23 am

      Communities are coalesce around and through the act of gift giving. Whether benefits street, or Broadway where the currency is a mention, a good review. In Tory circles the currency is the recital of the neo-liberal myth, tax cuts. Tax cuts are the gift the Tories are gifting to each other. They honestly believe that with yet another tax cut they will be better off. Its just one giant cult.

      Humanity, creates collectively, the wealth we now all enjoy. Humanity, underwrites it, with its own lives if necessary, since our freedom to trade comes from our willingness to stand up and defend ourselves against dictators. Even the act of getting up in the morning to a timetable, commuting to work, embracing a common language, common laws, defending one law for all (no three strikes tying the hands of judges), all are gifts to good order, and generate the underlying fabric that makes wealth possible. Yes, staying within the white line while driving is a cooperative social act that has wealth connotations. So when some desperately weak minded Tory jumps up with their mythology of tax cuts, how they worked hard for what they gotten, I just shake my head. How long before people start pissing in the collective well, how much collective inertia is built up due to good people worrying they may be making Tories richer.

      Well arguable it happens a lot in NZ, when some kiwis aggressively need to pounce on perceived weakness, is to my mind nothing more than the break down of the social compact. What are gangs? but more of the same notion extolled by National supporters who believe seizing wealth is the right of the strong. The weak should pay more taxes, which is essentially what they mean when they want tax cut (Keys tax cuts raised GST on the poorest).

      So yeah, extolling private schools as better, or Key as competent, is yet another way for Tories to be seen as good Tories and has actually nothing to do with the actualities of the matter. Its a profit cult after all.

  24. North 24
    29 August 2014 at 11:30 am

    Dear Old Duffer Armstrong – obviously feeling better today after the discomfort of having to call Cunliffe the victor in last night’s debate – renewed tra-la-la love affair with TheGodKey this morning. You up’n’at’em John ! And good lad……don’t mention that bloody debate again. People might think it relevant enough to question your perennial negative framing of Cunliffe.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-armstrong/news/article.cfm?a_id=3&objectid=11315805

  25. Petrus 25
    29 August 2014 at 11:34 am

    Judith Collin’s interview with Suzy Ferguson this a.m. was interesting: firstly because her head was suddenly above the parapet and secondly for the blanket denials: the first unusual recently, the second par for the course.

    Of greater interest, I think, is the reason she has now re-appeared in the arena. It goes like this: she claimed that she is unable to comment further about any of the matters relating to her outing of the civil servant (just business card details, nothing more) because – wait for it – everything relating to the information stolen from a blogger’s website is with the police who are “making a serious investigation” and that therefore any further comments would constitute interference with their investigation. And she wouldn’t want Suzy to accuse her of that, would she?

    The complainant is, of course, Cam Slater, back for a spot of fishing in the politcal pool. The happy conjunction of events ( Cam comes back, lays a complaint, Judith is free to walk again in the sunlight shielded by a hint of sub judice sunblock) is indeed fortuitous and in no way a plan. No smoke and mirrors here at all.

    Does anyone know if the Police have acutally accepted Slater’s complaint?

    (Ref RNZ website MR download, between 5-8 mins in.)

  26. Ant 26
    29 August 2014 at 11:42 am

    Saw this article this morning, guilty or not guilty, how much was Cameron Slater paid for this:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315977

    From the TVNZ article:

    “Jackman spoke out on the advice of public relations consultant Carrick Graham, who advised her to tell her story quickly to circumvent any pending court order.

    Graham said he had a client a few years ago who “faced pretty extreme suppression orders and that limited greatly my ability to help her in the media. I just said to her ‘it’s best to go out there early”‘. Neither case involved children.”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/courts-impose-gagging-orders-exes-online-attacks-5302020

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/peter-clague/

    All part of the retainer I guess. Quite interesting in seeing how these things were put together.

  27. Pascals bookie 27
    29 August 2014 at 12:12 pm

    “Cathy Odgers has resigned from the Lichtenstein based business adviser Jeeves Group by mutual consent – Alex Jeeves confirms”

    https://twitter.com/Zagzigger/status/505112240752582657

    Wonder what brought that on?

  28. weka 28
    29 August 2014 at 12:19 pm

    As exciting as the politics is, the big question for me this morning is whether phil will change his commenting syntax, or be willing to let his comments sit in the spam filter for variable amounts of time before appearing. Quite a fascinating dilemma.

  29. crocodill 29
    29 August 2014 at 12:26 pm

    “Unusual punctuation in comments is automatically going into spam. It is a bug. Your message will be extracted manually.”

    Wondered what that was. I just assumed it was last night’s cheese.

    • Daveosaurus 29.1
      29 August 2014 at 7:28 pm

      ” Your message will be extracted manually. ”

      … That sounds rather uncomfortable.

  30. blue leopard 30
    29 August 2014 at 1:09 pm

    A picture tweeted by ‘Caniwikiwi’ who tweeted it to Max Rashbrooke (and retweeted by Laila Harre) starkly showing the systemic racism in existence in New Zealand by comparing Maori, Pacific Island and Pakeha incomes between 1988 & 2013. 🙁

    http://twitter.com/MaxRashbrooke/status/504857676761661440/photo/1

    [lprent: corrected per comment below by BL. ]

    • kiwi_guy 30.1
      29 August 2014 at 3:44 pm

      That’s not “systemic racism”, whatever ‘systemic’ is suppose to mean, its low skilled work that is in decline as most of those jobs went to Asia over that period. Glut of low skilled workers = flat or declining wages.

      But in real terms basically EVERYONE on a salary or wage has flatlined i.e not even keeping pace with real inflation eg housing.

      • blue leopard 30.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 5:03 pm

        If it is not systemic then please tell my why the top wage of Maori is the lowest wage for a Pakeha?

        How can you argue a point without knowing what that point means?

        I suggest you look up the term systemic racism prior to arguing a point about it.

        I would link to the online Oxford dictionary for you, but that will mean my comment gets rejected for hours due to the fault on the Standard today.

        • kiwi_guy 30.1.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 6:30 pm

          [Deleted]

          [lprent: if you want to be an idiot troll playing stupid word games rather than expressing your own ideas, then try wanking on the whale. ]

          • Te Reo Putake 30.1.1.1.1
            29 August 2014 at 6:44 pm

            Why do maori and PI workers fill those low paid positions, kiwi guy?

            • kiwi_guy 30.1.1.1.1.1
              29 August 2014 at 7:21 pm

              Lprent, no wonder you guys are crashing in the polls despite being given so many gifts on a silver plate lately.

              What the fuck! Im moderated, deleted and now unmoderated again? LOL

            • kiwi_guy 30.1.1.1.1.2
              29 August 2014 at 7:23 pm

              Explain to me “systemic racism”, its not the dictionary where I was told to go look by one of your comrades.

              • blue leopard …
                29 August 2014 at 11:26 pm

                Oh well Kiwi_Guy, in case you have returned to read responses.

                Your first comment indicated you didn’t understand what ‘systemic’ was and had you looked that word up, it may have given you a clue as to what ‘systemic racism’ was.

                In my words: Systemic Racism is where disadvantages are embedded within the system, causing poor outcomes for those races that it affects. i.e a person of that race will have a harder time getting any of the benefits that the system is supposed to provide to all because there are inbuilt obstacles to them doing so. Places people of that race at a disadvantage to those who are not of that race.

                It might lead, for example, to the people of that race, overall, being paid less than those of other races.

                Wikipedia has a page on Institutional Racism.

          • kiwi_guy 30.1.1.1.2
            29 August 2014 at 7:26 pm

            LOL, you censor my comments and then post criticisms about them?

            [deleted]

            [lprent: Yeah. You obviously don’t respect private property enough to read the local rules. I don’t like graffiti wankers… Bye. ]

      • Murray Olsen 30.1.2
        30 August 2014 at 12:51 am

        Every time you comment, it becomes more obvious that you haven’t got a clue. We have had better RWNJs in here.

    • blue leopard 30.2
      29 August 2014 at 11:31 pm

      I made an error in comment @ 30: It was not Max Rashbrooke who tweeted that, it was ‘Caniwikiwi’ who tweeted it to Max Rashbrooke. (Sorry, Caniwikiwi, if you are reading! )

  31. Pete 31
    29 August 2014 at 1:53 pm

    The Roy Morgan poll looking at what are the election issues the public are interested in makes heartening reading for the left. The top issue is inequality. Then the economy, then unemployment and job security. There’s lots there that the left can get its teeth into.

  32. bad politics 32
    29 August 2014 at 2:56 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11315798

    National staffer ministry of Social Development writing messages on WO, “Comments linked to the ministry’s computer systems included saying “people who are so stupid (already being poor, they then have children) should not be allowed to vote”. Other comments included attacks on Muslim immigrants, unions and Labour leader David Cunliffe.” A few right wingers on these blogs have suddenly gone silent, makes me wonder.

    • kiwi_guy 32.1
      29 August 2014 at 3:38 pm

      The vast majority of NZers would agree that people who can’t afford children but go ahead and have them on the tax payers tab are indeed stupid – in fact they would probably offer some more colourful descriptions.

      This is one reason maybe that Nats haven’t taken much of a hit from the Dirty Politics fallout (yet).

      • Te Reo Putake 32.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 6:49 pm

        The vast majority of NZers would agree that people who can’t put together a coherent argument without resorting to talkback memes are indeed stupid– in fact they would probably offer some more colourful descriptions.

        • kiwi_guy 32.1.1.1
          29 August 2014 at 7:30 pm

          You are toxic like the rest of the “Progressives”.

          You want to see the reason the NZ public won’t touch you with a barge pole even after Dirty Politics, go take a look in the mirror.

          Oh, and ask that manhater Ms Rogers what the NZ public would think of a Labour activists with Twitbook friends called “Cuntess van Mankiller”. What a bunch of crazy losers.

          [lprent: OK, you really are a stupid wonder. Banned for attacking an author personally. Guess you never read the policy. I guess that being an ignorant dropped is just cool eh? Get your jollies that way huh? Just another limp fuckwit ]

      • Flipnz 32.1.2
        29 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

        You have no idea why people have kids or why they are ‘stupid’. The evidence suggests a poverty cycle has a lot to do with it.

  34. Hami Shearlie 34
    29 August 2014 at 5:21 pm

    The funniest thing last night was Steven Joyce tweeting his outrage that Cunliffe was talking over Key – that piece of hypocrisy was almost as funny as Michele Boag, when talking of Judith Collins and Slater’s friendship, saying “My Grandmother always told me, if you lay down with dogs, you’re going to get up with fleas” !! Those dear old Natz, always good for a laugh!!

    • phillip ure 34.1
      29 August 2014 at 5:32 pm

      the back-story to that is that boag and collins are from opposing sides in the internicine warfare currently raging in national..

      ..’game of thrones’..indeed..!

      ..and fast heading for their big wedding-scene.

  35. Saarbo 35
    29 August 2014 at 6:30 pm

    Amazing, Cunliffe wins last nights debate hands down and both TV1 and TV3 News find stories to attack Labour. Labour needs to check details on TV1’s Vote Compass and check whether it can be manipulated, if its a net driven survey then Id guess Nat Members are playing it.
    Both news managed to say that Labour had back tracked on the sale to foreigners, which is a story about the “benefit that a foreign buyer brings” when they purchase. I think the question the media need to be asking is, given this requirement is already in our legislation, how are so many foreigners managing to purchase land without bringing any obvious benefits other than paying more than locals can afford. Labour are just going to make sure that this is happening, which is good government.

    • Belladonna 35.1
      29 August 2014 at 6:36 pm

      I switched from tv1 to tv3 and then turned my tv off in disgust. They are too stupid to realise that around 50% of the public vote for the left and most wont be impressed at their bias. I really hope Labour does something to make this scummy media account for their unprofessional bias.

      • Richard Christie 35.1.1
        29 August 2014 at 7:51 pm

        I switched from tv1 to tv3 and then turned my tv off in disgust.

        Me too!

        I couldn’t believe my ears.

        The carcass of public broadcasting is well and truly rotten.

    • karol 35.2
      29 August 2014 at 6:49 pm

      Yep. A pretty shoddy effort by Tova O’Brien – repeating John Key’s spin, without any critical analysis.

  36. ScottGN 36
    29 August 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Anyone else notice that Key has been musing about the possibility of running a minority government in the same fashion that his mate Stephen Harper has done in Canada. Such governments are common in Canada both at the federal and provincial level. Opposition parties vote for the Speech from the Throne (mostly because their electoral support is low and/or fractured and they don’t wish to further antagonize the electorate by fruitlessly sending everyone back to the polls) and thereafter the government negotiates all legislation through the House until the opposition parties decide a more propitious time has arrived for another election or the minority government believes it has enough backing on a particular issue which warrants the calling of another election that it hopes might deliver a majority. At which point a confidence vote is contrived and the government falls. Governments rarely go full term and needless to say there’s plenty of potential for legislative timidity from the minority government that’s clinging to power. There’s no reason I guess why we couldn’t have this system in NZ except that unlike us, Canada (and Australia) are federal systems with provincial/state governments and have bicameral systems with an upper house to act as legislative backstop. Also given that all governments in NZ since at least the Second World War have commanded a majority in the House of Reps a significant change of thinking would be required from the Governor General to facilitate such a government in NZ.
    For Key and National to even have been posing the possibility of this sort of minority government surely demonstrates a stunning retreat of ambition for this election on their part.
    (sorry about the wordy post).

  37. TeWhareWhero 37
    29 August 2014 at 10:34 pm

    Have just been to a political meeting – a debate between the local youth council and the three main candidates in Kaikoura – National’s Stuart Smith, Labour’s Jannette Walker and Green’s List MP Stefan Browning.

    A question about child poverty was answered by Stuart Nash Smith – his opening claim that the ‘poverty gap is actually closing’ was met by a roar of derision; he compounded his stupidity by saying ‘the statistics prove it’ which caused another wave of laughter – and then he made my night – by saying ‘statistics don’t lie’. The hall erupted. This clearly upset some right-wingers and when Jannette Walker was replying to the child poverty question someone bellowed ‘tell the parents to stop smoking and drinking’. She proceeded to tear them up for bog paper – she’s got guts and she has real passion.

    Stuart Smith is just a bland suit – deeply unimpressive to anyone other than those who are walking round in a permanent blue haze – and I’m not at all sure he understands the nature of the electorate south of Blenheim. It’s a lot more marginal than the Nats thought it would be when they booted out Colin King.

    [lprent: fixed per later comment by TWW. ]

  38. TeWhareWhero 38
    29 August 2014 at 11:21 pm

    Oops should be Stuart Smith second para – got Nash on the brain.

  39. dad4justice 39
    31 August 2014 at 6:23 pm

    With all this dirty politics going on I am thinking of not voting. What’s the point of supporting a lifestyle of lies and deception.