Open mike 30/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 30th, 2023 - 108 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

108 comments on “Open mike 30/11/2023 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    30 November 2023 at 6:29 am

    Māori affiliation with Christianity has fallen from 46.2 percent to 29.9 percent.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/503554/maori-atheism-on-the-rise-legacy-of-colonisation-driving-decline-in-traditional-christian-beliefs

    The authors report a variety of reasons for the generational shift, with a selection of personal views sampled: 16, of which three quarters were brought up in a religious household but have evolved a more independent stance. Default to atheism is what the media do normally as the result of indoctrination into trad binary thinking.

    Reluctance to acknowledge the general trend of western civilisation toward the personal spirituality option during the past half-century seems evident in the subtext, though that could be due to the RNZ editor being a slow learner rather than the authors. Census questions usually recycle the antiquated conventional religious framing, and Labour failed to shift them in the direction of reality, which would be evidenced by inclusion of a personal spirituality option in both the census questioning and resultant bar graphs!

    • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1
      30 November 2023 at 9:00 am

      Wonderful that The Standard gives you opportunities to pass on the wisdom and experience you have gathered across numerous life lessons in order to help empower or support others – forgive them, for they are slow/binary, and know not what they do.

      Forgiving Behavior among Emerging Adults: The Influence of Religiosity and Spirituality and Personality Traits [15 March 2023]
      Forgiveness is multifaceted in nature and therefore there is no consensus among researchers regarding its definition. However, most scholars agree on one aspect that forgiveness is an important psychological asset and is highly beneficial to self and others and promotes mental health and well-being. Increasing empirical literature states that those high in forgiveness experience greater self-rated health, recovery abilities, personal healing, and psychological well-being and decreased negative emotions, the risk for substance use, somatic symptoms and risk for mental illness.

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.1
        30 November 2023 at 10:48 am

        Not really a good idea to forgive media pros for their incompetence &/or failure to provide suitable public service. However implying that discrimination against spiritual folk is a desirable leftist attribute seems rather uncouth. We ought to encourage both groups to do better. angel

        • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1
          30 November 2023 at 11:34 am

          Not really a good idea to forgive media pros for their incompetence &/or failure to provide suitable public service.

          Would your 'suitable' suit everyone? Split a piece of wood; perceived incompetence is there. Lift up the stone, and you will find failure there.

          We can all "do better" (I know I can) – to err is human, to forgive divine.

          Elsewhere in his essay, Pope stresses the many human factors that lead to bad outcomes: overconfidence, tunnel vision, bias, prejudice and inconsistency, among others, and exhorts us to combine “good nature and good sense” in our judgment.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_on_Criticism

          Let your good nature shine through smiley

          • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1
            30 November 2023 at 12:10 pm

            Yes, I do agree that goodwill is crucial in politics. A basis for ongoing relevance of the teachings of Jesus around that, huh? Also relevant is the Dalai Lama's focus on compassion.

      • Sanctuary 1.1.2
        30 November 2023 at 3:35 pm

        I dunno, I read a lot of Dennis Frank's posts as billboards for the Dunning-Kruger institute.

        • Incognito 1.1.2.1
          30 November 2023 at 4:07 pm

          In other words, he’s spamming this site?

        • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2.2
          1 December 2023 at 12:00 am

          Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble, but (imho) Dennis is doin’ the best that he can!

          TbF, I'm suprised he has time to grace TS with his presence and ‘pearls’.

    • Ad 1.2
      30 November 2023 at 2:33 pm

      If you've ever seen a hospital ward, engineering company, aid organisation, or local charity, know that they are all chock full of Christians doing the work for you.

      Default atheism is so useful in understanding the politics of south Auckland, west Auckland, Pacific Island states, the Middle East, South and middle America, all of Africa, southern and eastern Asia, Turkey, Ukraine, all post-soviet states, and Russia.

      Go right ahead figuring them without all that "antiquated framing" you so loathe.

      Analysis like yours is the reason the west is increasingly out of step with the rest of the world.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    30 November 2023 at 7:03 am

    Hipkins seems to believe Peters ought to be silenced by Luxon. You know, in accord with the logic that leaders of political parties ought to be unable to express political opinions. If he's serious, he ought to advocate a law change to enforce such censorship.

    If he's merely posturing, is the posture more impressive than the one Peters adopted? They both seem equally amusing.

    Hipkins told TVNZ’s Breakfast this morning that Peters was potentially breaking the law by making false claims that the media was bought off through the Public Interest Journalism Fund. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labours-chris-hipkins-first-press-conference-as-opposition-leader-claims-national-led-govt-has-fiscal-hole/4GWILLN3EZA5BCPI6VUX3Z3AVY/

    It's as if he believes that potentially breaking a law is a serious matter. Like red-light runners, when they decide to brake instead. Election bribes are a typical product of democracy, yet somehow nobody told Hipkins.

    Still, Tova & Jenna feel the bribery framing is naughty and ought to be punished, so maybe the Peters posture is somewhat effective. I dunno, looks like politics as usual: both left & right playing the fool. What's wrong with govt giving taxpayer money to media anyway?? They serve the public interest by explaining what's going on – most people can't figure it out for themselves.

    • observer 2.1
      30 November 2023 at 7:24 am

      You've built yourself one heck of a straw man there. Of course leaders of parties can express opinions, it's nonsense to suggest Hipkins is saying otherwise.

      It is however blindingly obvious that in a government, the PM should be in charge, not the Deputy PM. Peters has lied, and Luxon has not corrected his lies (in public … privately he has no doubt been fuming).

      False accusations of corruption and bribery are NOT an acceptable part of our democracy, and they do not end well. Ask Jami-Lee Ross.

      • bwaghorn 2.1.1
        30 November 2023 at 9:02 am

        luxon was on the verge of tears last night on te news when questioned about winston ,cause jeez we've got more important things then the dp being a dishonest shit.

        • Tricledrown 2.1.1.1
          30 November 2023 at 10:12 am

          The dead cat has been thrown and Nationals promise of changing working for families increase the top bracket from $42'000 to $50'000 giving a $25 increase in working for families is no longer going ahead.The poorest paying for wealthy landlords tax cuts.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2
      30 November 2023 at 8:06 am

      "Hipkins seems to believe Peters ought to be silenced by Luxon."

      You're misreading the situation.

      Hipkins believes Luxon should publicly admonish Peter's inflammatory, untrue statements, not demand silence, imo.

      • Kat 2.2.1
        30 November 2023 at 9:12 am

        Yes but hilariously Luxon commented that whether the journalism bribe was true or not, and he believes the jury is still out on that, is not the main point because it's really about perception…………ah yes the old smoke and mirrors perception trick…….

      • Dennis Frank 2.2.2
        30 November 2023 at 10:37 am

        Could be right, Robert. So his tacit signal is Peters `ought not to express a different view to mine on the issue'. I suspect he even believes such virtue-signalling works.

        smiley It's also entirely feasible that he feels the need to exhibit a simulation of a strong moral stance, since a measurable portion of voters are easily impressed by such exhibitions. Perhaps Labour's focus groups indicate that?? If so, fair enough, but the unimpressed would have too many to easily number.

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.1
          30 November 2023 at 10:58 am

          Again, no, Dennis.

          Hipkins is saying Peters shouldn’t lie and Luxon ought to express that view also.

          • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.1.1
            30 November 2023 at 11:15 am

            Oh, you mean the assumption that folks will default to a lawyer's definition of bribery, due to Peters being a lawyer? Would not be widely shared in my opinion – too many know about metaphor.

            I think electoral bribery could usefully be parked in economic policy, so that the $55 million appears as a line item in the budget. Chomsky 1.01 is all a political party need tell the media. Manufacturing consent is how commercial democracy operates, so it's an appropriate test to use on media pros.

            When the eyes glaze over, watch carefully to see if the penny drops. If it doesn't, suggest that they tell their employer they need a remedial course in standard methods of using political influence in a democracy.

            • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.1.1.1
              30 November 2023 at 11:44 am

              Sure, clever, if you support "being misleading" as a valid political strategy.

              The implications of "misleading" are interesting to ruminate upon.

            • observer 2.2.2.1.1.2
              30 November 2023 at 12:17 pm

              You're being remarkably obtuse on this.

              Every 3 years the word "bribe" is used as a political metaphor, and in all directions. A tax cut "bribe", a fees-free "bribe", a dental care "bribe", and so on. It means (as you well know) a party offers a policy that they hope will win votes.

              What Peters has alleged is nothing whatsoever to do with that. If you haven't read what he said, please do. If you have, maybe read it again. He lied. It is as simple as that.

              • woodart …
                30 November 2023 at 2:01 pm

                yes observer, I observe that frank dennis is trying to have a bob each way , much like peter winston. hard to spot the difference.

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    30 November 2023 at 7:34 am

    Tory take over at NRC in Whangārei…

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/503478/new-northland-regional-council-chair-geoff-crawford-elected-at-explosive-meeting

    Dirty farmer Mr Crawford said on RNZ this morning that the NRC was now aligned with the new Government!

    This piece again shows the value of Local Democracy Reporting, some local papers dropped their Council and Court “beats” long ago and LDR has done some sterling work.

    • observer 3.1
      30 November 2023 at 7:43 am

      No, we must not have reporting on local councils! Ratepayers and voters must not be told what is going on, in their name, with their money!

      That is Winston Peters' view, and it seems, Luxon's as well. Money is spent on reporting, therefore it is a bribe. Idiotic.

      NZ On Air and RNZ launch new Local Democracy Reporting service with NPA | NZ On Air

    • Robert Guyton 3.2
      30 November 2023 at 7:59 am

      Herein lies the Left's/progressives vulnerability. The ideological ruthlessness of the Right shows no mercy.

      I feel for those councillors battered by those blunt instruments. It will have been a hideous feeling, though they knew it was coming.

      Once they've recovered, those for-now-disheartened councillors will find that there are avenues and opportunities to sustain what they achieved when they were more influential. The victors likewise, will discover that smashing stuff down is not so easy as they expect. Plus, climate change.

    • AB 3.3
      30 November 2023 at 9:15 am

      These guys belong in a Faulkner novel – maybe minor members of the Snopes clan.

    • Peter 3.4
      30 November 2023 at 9:29 am

      There's been a constant caterwauling about terrible Northland roading in recent years.

      The fact is that for 70 odd years Northland almost totally elected National MPs.

      The fact is that the Regional Councils and industry bodies like Federated Farmers in the region have basically sat on their hands and backed the neglect. Excuses were always made with local 'leaders,' it was always 'softly softly.'

      Of course in 2017 the tone changed. Aligning with the National Government got the region jack shit.

      I expect the next thing we'll hear about is the NRC putting its oar into the debate about Government funding for the Whangarei Hospital redevelopment. You know, the "Please hurry, this is urgent, we've been promised, this is critical for the region" sort of thing. The "National whinged the money Labour had labelled wasn't enough, we demand more," type of message.

      Reckon that'll happen? Along with "We're happy with your Tobacco decisions since we're aligned with you even though they will affect the region to the extent of scores of millions."

  4. Sandra Le Cron 4
    30 November 2023 at 8:15 am

    Winnie certainly has a point in his assertions that the media was bribed by the media grants.These were given to maintain media friendliness and therefore exert some influence upon the multitude at a time of high media frenzy,of which he personally gained some benefit and recognition.Reality.

    • Sanctuary 4.1
      30 November 2023 at 8:18 am

      when will be rid of this tedious troll?

      • Anne 4.1.1
        30 November 2023 at 9:20 am

        There's a few of them around at the moment.

        • Kat 4.1.1.1
          30 November 2023 at 10:22 am

          But they are getting easier to spot Anne…….difficulties with reasoning, logic and problems with judgment and critical thinking are sure give aways….

    • observer 4.2
      30 November 2023 at 8:35 am

      If you mean in 2020, it was when Covid had devastated business in so many ways, not least advertising revenue. Were wage subsidies "bribes" too?

      If you mean after 2020, which is when the vast majority of the fund was allocated, it was so successful in manipulating the media coverage that … er, Labour's vote slumped from 50% to half that. Oops.

      The Google archive has hundreds of relevant pages on this, so it's easy to inform yourself if you care.

      • Pat 4.2.2
        30 November 2023 at 9:48 am

        “The Public Interest Journalism Fund was introduced during Covid because it was a disastrous time in terms of media and we were pressured by good people out there to say, ‘hey, you support financial institutions so how about supporting local media that’s struggling’.

        “It was aimed at supporting New Zealand media to keep producing stories and was not just for RNZ and for TVNZ.

        “We never ever had any editorial control over anything anyone wrote, and that’s the truth. For Winston to insinuate some conspiracy is absolute disinformation and falsehoods."

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/willie-jackson-describes-winston-peters-behaviour-as-worrying/S3AF6DZFTVBORNLU4E3ZWDMMMY/

        No editorial control is true to say but the dispersement of funds was conditional (as it should be) and that itself provides a level of control…the question that arises is whether you think the conditions were reasonable or had a political slant.

        https://d3r9t6niqlb7tz.cloudfront.net/media/documents/220221_PIJF_General_Guidelines_updated.pdf

        Decide for yourself.

        • observer 4.2.2.1
          30 November 2023 at 10:06 am

          A good guide to the reliability of any accusations like this is whether the accuser gives any examples of this "corruption" or only hides behind vague language without any specifics. We all wait for Winston to cite chapter and verse (but don't bother, he won't).

          NZ on Air have funded shows like Q & A for many years, long before Ardern's government. They still do and will continue (the coalition agreement says nothing about scrapping NZ on Air or RNZ or TVNZ). So, there is no good faith here, at all.

          Of course many (most?) of the public aren't going to delve into the details. Peters knows that, and anyway his target is 5%, not 50.

          • Pat 4.2.2.1.1
            30 November 2023 at 10:34 am

            The public have the choice whether to allow their opinion to be formed for them by others or to seek the information and form their own.

            In this instance the public is unlikely to be provided with a unbiased appraisal when the party accused of being subject undue influence (the media organisations) investigates itself.

            As the fund ceased to operate in June this year it is now history in any event, but as with most things political various parties will make use of its existence for political purposes and the implications are likely to impact for some time to come.

            Same old, same old and an affliction of all political hues.

            Sadly positions will continue upon tribal lines for most, to the detriment of progress.

          • theotherpat 4.2.2.1.2
            30 November 2023 at 3:12 pm

            bring back Kim Hill and she can interview Winston Peters aka imafwit and ask a few pointed questions tho i doubt if we would accept an interview with a person of her calibre.

    • Robert Guyton 4.3
      30 November 2023 at 8:39 am

      Sandra Le Cron's naive and simplistic comments mark "them" as an easy-pick for the Right – their vote would have been a certainty and their willingness to troll this Left-wing site, taken as read. Bothering to respond to their shallow provocations, or not, gives us control, but yes, they are a pest 🙂

      • woodart 4.3.1
        30 November 2023 at 2:08 pm

        you are correct robert. I havent been here for weeks , but instantly picked her/his comments as coming from a fisherman/woman. so shallow as to virtual signal their trolling ability/inability.

  5. Adrian 5
    30 November 2023 at 8:26 am

    It has come to pass that this new gummint has an obvious trouble with telling the truth, pretty much everything they say is lies. A few days ago both Luxon and Willis defended the smoke free cancellation because of the threat of robberies saying that there would only be ONE outlet in Northland, Alesha Verrall had to correct them and say the proposed refs would have 14. Neither Nat can obviously read and just lie as a default setting.

  6. Kat 6
    30 November 2023 at 8:58 am

    Had to laugh listening to morning retort today, Luxon says the new govt is going to fix the economy, which is in a really really bad state, after the worst financial vandalism in NZ history by the former Labour govt. Shortly afterward Adrian Orr is on saying the NZ economy is in great shape, there never was a recession and agreed his comments yesterday on potential OCR rise is a warning shot across the banks and financial lending institutions bows. The old too much money by too many people chasing too few goods problem…….apparently….

    But then wait….really really really big news…..the Wellington mayor has a drinking problem….

    • Bearded Git 6.1
      30 November 2023 at 10:01 am

      S and P, Moody's and Fitch would have criticised the NZ economy and downgraded their ratings if the NZ economy was in a bad state, but they haven't. It follows that Luxon is talking rubbish. The question is why does the MSM let him get away with talking rubbish like this?

      Meanwhile on RadioNZ last night I heard that the bar owner where Tory Whanau was drinking said that there was no problem and that he would be glad to have the group of people back any time.

      • Kat 6.1.1
        30 November 2023 at 10:15 am

        Anything that involves in-depth investigative journalism is way beyond the skills of most in the MSM these days. The editorial directive, or above, is to focus on sound bites, catchy headlines, opinionated commentary articles, anything scandalous involving public or sporting figures, and if it bleeds it leads……..

      • Jack 6.1.2
        30 November 2023 at 10:29 am

        Of course the bar owner said Tipsy and her friends were no problem. Likely to be some of their most profitable customers.

  7. observer 7
    30 November 2023 at 10:25 am

    New Regional Infrastructure Fund: Chris Bishop says it's all good.

    Provincial Growth Fund? Chris Bishop said it was all bad.

    "Shane Jones has an appalling track record of inappropriate behaviour, conflicts of interest and lack of accountability – traits that have become a stain on the Provincial Growth Fund.

    “The PGF was Labour’s reward to NZ First for supporting the coalition. The result is a slush fund that lacks transparency and is being treated as NZ First’s campaign chest for 2020.”

    Can't see how this relationship can possibly go wrong!

    Shane Jones’ PGF answers don’t pass the sniff test | Scoop News

    • Kat 7.1
      30 November 2023 at 10:47 am

      Chris Bishop has a habit of inserting the wrong memory stick when making comments……….could be he can’t see the right one for all the smoke………and all the mirrors really confuse things…….

      • tc 7.1.1
        30 November 2023 at 2:30 pm

        Bishop is as trustworthy as his former employers are about the health impacts of their products.

        With the likes of him, Shane Jones etc the integrity bar is set rather low.

  8. Tricledrown 8
    30 November 2023 at 10:27 am

    Trump is saying the same BS the US economy is in serious trouble because of Biden yet low unemployment and a massive increase in manufacturing .Luxon just keeps repeating the lies Trumpish like.Nationals policy will start another round of house price inflation, then the Tax cuts in July will dump a large sum of money into the retail sector causing more inflation just as Adrian Orr will have inflation nearly under control.Here we go back to the 1990's yo yo economy small bursts of growth followed by recessions and Austerity increasing the OCR to bring down the inflation caused by tax cuts.PWC warned everybody before the election about these election bribes which damage the longterm economy.

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    30 November 2023 at 11:06 am

    Aotearoa seems set to balance relations with China & USA:

    The Chinese Communist Party newspaper, “Global Times”, has already noted that Luxon has been clear about his interest in collaboration with China under the Belt and Road Initiative framework. Pressed during the election campaign on whether a National government would take money from China to pay for new roads, Luxon said: “Yeah, absolutely.”
    https://www.politik.co.nz/national-takes-over-infrastructure/ | Politik

    No reason spare money ought not to be used to strengthen relations between nations, right? Depends how you do it though. We're currently deploying this triad in China: https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/asia/china/new-zealand-embassy/our-people-in-china/

    I wonder if Lux will retain it or reconfigure it. Will he issue instructions to see how soon they secure suitable results? Asian-ethnicity ministers could be useful in view of our current ethnicity numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand

    Parity of asians with maori is a fact of life, in any ethnicity-voter framing. Folks will notice it. Media may even report it, with a gosh of surprise at the time lapse since last reported. May even connect the dots to the treaty relevance, huh? Lux may notice a useful lever here. Too thick?

  10. UncookedSelachimorpha 10
    30 November 2023 at 11:24 am

    I have quite often seen russian propaganda regarding russia's attacks on East Ukraine and Crimea, parroted on this site.

    Russian investigative journalist, Andrey Zakharov, and others, have compiled the history of how putin planned, propagandised and executed his attack on Ukraine:

    'His War' is Andrey Zakharov's historical investigation into Vladimir Putin and the war he unleashed in Ukraine back in 2014. For ten years now, journalists from around the world have been gathering evidence on how exactly this war began. In this film, we have compiled all the evidence together. This includes wiretaps of conversations among Russian officials and separatists, email leaks, and most importantly, confessions from the participants of the 'Russian Spring.' Why did Putin specifically provoke the Euromaidan? How did the Kremlin prepare for the annexation of Crimea? And why did Russia's intervention in Ukraine's internal affairs become the main cause of the war that started in 2014?

    It is detailed and an hour and a half long. But better to actually learn about this, than to repeat kremlin nonsense from RT. Has good English subtitles.

  11. Robert Guyton 11
    30 November 2023 at 12:03 pm

    Grant Robertson has been assigned the shadow roles of…drum roll… finance and racing!

    Racing!

    Wahoo!

    Entertaining times ahead!

    • weka 11.1
      30 November 2023 at 12:45 pm

      I bet there was some jockeying around for that role.

    • Matiri 11.2
      30 November 2023 at 12:53 pm

      Grant will have fun giving Winston a stir-rup!

    • Belladonna 11.3
      30 November 2023 at 12:56 pm

      But misses out on Sport, to Peeni Henare.

    • alwyn 11.4
      30 November 2023 at 3:03 pm

      Chippie really hasn't got it through yet that he in Opposition now rather than being on the Government benches and part of the Executive.

      He is complaining that "He said he thought it was an “interesting decision” that National had chosen Greens climate spokesman James Shaw over the official Opposition climate change spokeswoman in Megan Woods".

      There is no such thing as an "Official Opposition spokeswomen". The Greens are an Opposition Party on exactly the same level as are Labour. The only Opposition role that is recognised is the Leader of the Opposition. There is no such thing as "Deputy Leader of the Opposition" as Chippie appears to be labelling Sepuloni.

      As well he seems to think that members of his party have "portfolios". They have no such thing. They may be Labour Party spokespersons but that is all.

      Come on Hipkins. At least you should have begun to understand the greatly reduced position you and your mates now occupy.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/labour-to-unveil-opposition-line-up-as-it-ramps-up-attacks-on-national-led-government/TQ6XLSQCOJGS7EX4RGUIQQBDVU/

      • Jack 11.4.1
        30 November 2023 at 3:20 pm

        Very smart move by the Government to effectively sideline Labour who, in 6 years did bugger all with their “nuclear moment”

      • Robert Guyton 11.4.2
        30 November 2023 at 5:47 pm

        Good point, alwyn.

        Shaw was chosen because his depth of knowledge is far greater than anyone else Luxon could have chosen – in particular, Matty.

      • observer 11.4.3
        30 November 2023 at 7:19 pm

        "He seems to think that members of his party have "portfolios". They have no such thing. They may be Labour Party spokespersons but that is all."

        Alwyn, it takes only 5 seconds to check before you submit. Less time than it does to type your egg-on-face rants.

        In 2023 the Leader of the Opposition announces:

        "Louise Upston adds Family Violence Prevention to her portfolios … Todd Muller is confirmed as the Agriculture spokesperson, and also takes on the Climate Change portfolio … Todd McClay picks up the new Hunting and Fishing portfolio … Penny Simmonds takes on the new portfolio of Workforce Planning … Tama Potaka picks up the Māori Development and Associate Housing portfolios" …

        Luxon Sets Out Team To Contest The 2023 Election | Scoop News

        • alwyn 11.4.3.1
          1 December 2023 at 9:10 am

          I'm surprised that you, of all people take what Luxon says as gospel. Can we now assume that you will accept anything he says as being absolutely correct because he said it?

      • Louis 11.4.4
        30 November 2023 at 9:21 pm

        Looks like you do not know what you are talking about, alwyn.

        Nicola Willis Deputy leader of the opposition.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_Christopher_Luxon

        • alwyn 11.4.4.1
          1 December 2023 at 9:07 am

          No There is no such position as deputy-leader of the Opposition. Whoever used that wording was simply wrong. If it was Luxon he was just as wrong as Hipkins currently is.

          Have a look at this. You will see that they have positions of PM, and deputy PM as well as Leader of the Opposition. They then have leaders and deputy leaders of parties but there is no position of deputy leader of the Opposition. Why would there be? The other Opposition parties are not somehow automatically subservient to the Opposition Party that got the most votes are they?

          https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2020/0327/latest/LMS438252.html

          • Louis 11.4.4.1.1
            1 December 2023 at 1:45 pm

            There is a position of Deputy leader of the opposition, as the link @ 11.4.4 shows. Your denials do not change that fact.

            • alwyn 11.4.4.1.1.1
              1 December 2023 at 2:25 pm

              There is no such position and no such link. There are references to he phrase Deputy leader but no such position is recognised, even to having a Wiki entry. You will note that there is a Wiki entry to Leader of the Opposition but not Deputy.

              If my link to all the roles in the New Zealand Parliament from the official source doesn't persuade you, what will?

  13. bwaghorn 13
    30 November 2023 at 2:29 pm

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/new-zealands-central-bank-defends-maori-language-use-2023-11-29/

    The idiots in charge getting more world wide headlines for taking us in the wrong direction!!

  14. Stephen D 14
    30 November 2023 at 3:59 pm

    “Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters praises US engagement in the Pacific”

    So Winnie’s now Deputy Sherriff to Albanese?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/503591/foreign-affairs-minister-winston-peters-praises-us-engagement-in-the-pacific

    • Stephen D 14.1
      30 November 2023 at 4:31 pm

      So how is Nact1 going to square the circle with snuggling up to both USA, and China’s Belt and Road?

  16. Corey 16
    30 November 2023 at 4:17 pm

    I am dumbfounded at labour's Shadow cabinet announced today.

    You'd think since Labour only holds 17 electorates, all 17 successful electorate mps would be in shadow cabinet, nope, insetead FIFTEEN are List mps, most who lost safe seats and should have retired by now.

    WTF are Rino and Deborah Russell still doing in politics, do they have no shame? You could have ran pot plants in their seats and they would have got more votes.

    And for a party that is facing an existential crisis (whether the left wants to admit it or not) by totally being rejected by male voters of ALL ages and classes, you'd think theyd atleast gender ballance the shadow cabinet so it doesn't look like a radical feminist party (whether it's true or not is irrelevant, voters think it is and perception is ALL that matters) but nah… 6/10 are women and 12/20 are bland robot female politicians.

    So you can bet your arse in opposition Labour is going to continue to be as obsessed with unpopular, alienating gender and social policy and everytime it opens its mouth working and middle class people will continue to groan.

    Honestly I'd get rid of the lot of labour's caucus except Kieren (the future of Labour) , Rachel (how the hell is she at the bottom when she's the only Labour mp in decades to hold Nelson, twice?!) Duncan, Cushla (labour's ONE Maori electorate mp) and Carmel (because she's good in the house)

    The rest of them should be sent packing.

    However, after taking a beating this bad, you'd think they'd do some soul searching… Na carry on as if this lot weren't utterly rejected.

    15 list mps in shadow cabinet… Unbelievable.

    The caucus should be 11 out of the ten females who won electorates (all but Helen white who should be retiring before 2026) and the 6 male electorate mps + Kieren Grant etc

    It's shameful Debra and Rino haven't reaigned.

    • Anne 16.1
      30 November 2023 at 5:41 pm

      Your reckons are in need of a makeover. It’s a fresh line-up. Just what the political doctor ordered. Electorate MPs do not take precedence over list MPs. They are all equal. It is the person deemed best for each individual portfolio, taking into account geographical and other important considerations.

      Please look and listen to Hipkin’s press conference. It has its humorous moments which is more than you get with the other lot. Hopefully you will also recognise he knows his MPs better than we do:

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/503581/labour-party-leader-chris-hipkins-reveals-new-shadow-cabinet

      NB. the entire caucus has been given shadow portfolio responsibilities. Good practice.

    • Louis 16.2
      30 November 2023 at 9:05 pm

      Helen White won her seat, and she has every right to be there.

    • SPC 16.3
      1 December 2023 at 5:38 am

      Just wow, you'd have been at home at Roehm's SA gatherings, your reactionary working class man thing against social liberal women would have been popular.

  17. Robert Guyton 17
    30 November 2023 at 4:38 pm

    The Cookers LOVE LOVE LOVE Winston!

    https://rumble.com/v3ynskd-operation-m.o.a.r-mother-of-all-revelations.html

    Help us, Jesus!

  18. adam 18
    30 November 2023 at 4:38 pm

    Tory dumb asses economics 101:

    We have rampant inflation – the cause of majority of said inflation – corporate greed. (google Australian Tax department)

    Yeap the corporations have decided working people are dumb enough to buy the lies and propaganda they spin – so they look at something else. Winston

    The have their special elects in Government now.

    So how will inflation be under Tory dumb ass economics – you silly – They will force down wages saying it's the only way to fix inflation.

    Corporations laugh in your face – must be having a good giggle they were able to elect Winston back to be such a distraction.

    Good luck, thank God I'm disabled and will be dead before the bring back open slavery – on your dumb wage slave ass.

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