Open Mike 31/10/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 31st, 2016 - 104 comments
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104 comments on “Open Mike 31/10/2016 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    31 October 2016 at 6:25 am

    John’s Key’s New Zealand.
    A better future.

    Amount of methamphetamine seized at NZ’s borders skyrockets.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11738898

  2. Paul 2
    31 October 2016 at 6:26 am

    This is the sort of news the New Zealand media should be telling.

    Paul Craig Roberts: We all might be dead soon

  3. Morrissey 3
    31 October 2016 at 6:31 am

    Leading thinker makes brave “captain’s call” re untermenschen

    When this brave, brilliant fellow gets the sack, the ACT Party might like to recruit him. He has much in common with their ex-leader Jamie Whyte…

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/20/kalgoorlie-mayor-singles-out-aboriginal-people-over-antisocial-behaviour

  4. Paul 4
    31 October 2016 at 6:33 am

    Agribusiness advocate and chief EPA ‘scientist’ Jacqueline Rowarth nailed by Sharon Murdoch.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv4TfFHUkAA_zv2.jpg:large

  5. Andre 5
    31 October 2016 at 7:46 am

    Interesting discussion/puff piece about online voting.

    http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/online-voting-isnt-as-flawed-as-you-thinkjust-ask-estonia

    The security details are way beyond my negligible expertise, but I note the Estonian system also relies on everyone been required to have an electronically readable ID card. Hmmm…

    • save nz 5.1
      31 October 2016 at 8:36 am

      @Andre – electronic voting is completely subject to complete tampering unlike paper votes.

      When the government can’t even get a simple payment system to pay the teacher’s, they are certainly not ready to be trusted with democracy.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1
        31 October 2016 at 10:25 am

        electronic voting is completely subject to complete tampering unlike paper votes.

        Both systems have their flaws and advantages. The idea is to weigh them up and choose the best one.

        You don’t just use scaremongering.

        If we want democracy then we must go to online voting as it’s the only one that allows us to vote on each policy.

        When the government can’t even get a simple payment system to pay the teacher’s

        The government may have signed off on it but it was actually the private sector that failed to deliver what it promised.

        they are certainly not ready to be trusted with democracy.

        I’m pretty sure that the rich are thankful for your support for them remaining in power in our elected dictatorship.

      • Red 5.1.2
        31 October 2016 at 3:30 pm

        Apply block chain principals to voting, decentralise network and use mining and hash functions to verify votes

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2
      31 October 2016 at 11:20 am

      That’s an excellent article clearly outlining the challenges and possible solutions to those challenges. There’s still risks involved, there always will be, but they’re not as high as some people believe.

      but I note the Estonian system also relies on everyone been required to have an electronically readable ID card.

      I note that everyone already has such a card – it’s their credit card. In fact, I’ve got four in my pocket ATM and one of them’s my library card.

  6. save nz 6
    31 October 2016 at 10:23 am

    Interesting results in Iceland’s election. Shows how tax cuts and economic recovery inched ahead in the election results, of public anger. I’m not sure that NZ public is so desperate for tax cuts, but I defiantly don’t like the idea of tax increases… How about Labour and Greens harnessing public anger about corruption and unfairness on those offshore tax cheats while keeping taxes the same for the resident population… Also explained in one sound byte not some complicated policy…

    “The Pirates, founded four years ago by a group of activists, anarchists and former hackers, tripled their share of the vote to 14.5%, and together with an alliance of three left-of-centre parties won a total of 27 seats – five short of a majority in the country’s 63-seat parliament.”

    “The centre-right Independence party, however, won almost 30% of the vote and a total of 29 seats with its coalition partner of the past three years, the Progressive party, which was badly hit by this year’s Panama papers scandal and lost more than half its MPs.

    In a campaign whose early stages were dominated by public anger at Iceland’s traditional elites and a strong desire for political change, the Independence party promised to lower taxes and keep Iceland’s economic recovery on track.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/30/iceland-elections-ruling-centre-right-party-pirate-party

    • Draco T Bastard 6.1
      31 October 2016 at 10:27 am

      the Independence party promised to lower taxes and keep Iceland’s economic recovery on track.

      Well, I suspect that Iceland are about to find out that those two are mutually exclusive.

      • save nz 6.1.1
        31 October 2016 at 12:56 pm

        Your are probably right Draco! My point is that the idea of stability and tax cuts does seem compelling…. hopefully NZ labour have some good research into how much debt National has put the country in and how that might raise interest rates for homeowners in the future cancelling out any tax cuts…. unlike when Labour was in, and bought down the debt so we were in a good position with GFC.

        • Red 6.1.1.1
          31 October 2016 at 4:29 pm

          They just transferred government debt to private debt, and weighted economy in future with 2 stupid policies, free student loans and working for families Hardly any thing to Crow about

    • dukeofurl 6.2
      31 October 2016 at 2:10 pm

      Where are those who were saying a few days back Pirates were going to be largest party and go into government ?

      10 seats out of 64 !

      • save nz 6.2.1
        31 October 2016 at 2:42 pm

        Yes but with a coalition The Pirate party were only 2 seats from winning so pretty close I would think to come, out of nowhere.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    31 October 2016 at 10:53 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11738693

    Theres a big name announcement and a challenge for the seat

    • adam 8.1
      31 October 2016 at 12:00 pm

      That’s because Chester Brown is a idiot. OK lets leave aside his anti-democratic principles for a moment.

      The problem with Chester is that when ever this type of thing happens, it makes him and his look like weak and dishonorable, so they have to reach for any old chest nut spin merchants trick to get back on top of the debate.

      Auto Que – dumb reactionary economic arguments. These guys are so predictable.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      31 October 2016 at 3:55 pm

      He’s urging rural residents to do their bit to prevent rural crime and particularly to report suspicious activity and unfamiliar vehicles to police. “It’s like the old saying: if you think something is dodgy, then it probably is,” he said.

      Unlawful intrusions on to private property by organisations seeking out examples of bad farming practices to expose internationally were putting the New Zealand economy at risk, he said.

      On one hand he’s saying that criminals shouldn’t be reported and on the other he’s saying that they should be.

      Doubt if he sees the contradiction in his stance though.

  9. David C 9
    31 October 2016 at 12:37 pm

    So Bathurst and Talleys buy 3 coal mines.

    I am sure that is going to be popular around here :-/

    • save nz 9.1
      31 October 2016 at 12:50 pm

      Coal – NZ’s dirty future under National.

      • David C 9.1.1
        31 October 2016 at 1:08 pm

        Yip National supporting business and employment. Whatever next.

        Sad to hear Talleys are just passive investors in this tho.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1
          31 October 2016 at 1:32 pm

          In fact, climate costs are increasing rapidly – the economic damage is already significant. Not to mention the poverty National’s economic incompetence always brings with it.

          As their slavish follower, I expect you’d prefer Talley’s to be more involved because of their human rights abuse.

          • save nz 9.1.1.1.1
            31 October 2016 at 2:45 pm

            Next time a Talley’s worker loses an arm – they can mail it to you David C! All part of our lovely Neoliberal Dreamworld where workers or clients dying should not really ruin a good year for executives.

      • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.2
        31 October 2016 at 1:14 pm

        Is is just me, or does anyone else see the irony of Talley’s getting into coal mining at this particular point in time?

        Perhaps this venture has been in the pipeline for a while…but was the announcement delayed until a Certain Person was safely out of the way?

        Sure as eggs, she’d not be happy about this….

        Perhaps TS could run a “What would Helen say about this?” post?

        • te reo putake 9.1.2.1
          31 October 2016 at 1:37 pm

          One thing Helen would say is that Talley’s started as minority shareholders in AFFCO too. Sadly for the workers there, they moved from silent backers to majority bullies in just a few years.

          • dukeofurl 9.1.2.1.1
            31 October 2016 at 2:15 pm

            Yes but food processing is their core business, coal isnt near it.

            seems like a favour for national party who dont want Solid Energy to smack them in the face again.

            • Chris 9.1.2.1.1.1
              31 October 2016 at 5:51 pm

              “Yes but food processing is their core business, coal isnt near it.”

              Sure, but fucking more and more workers over to satisfy their ever-increasing greed is their core business, which means they’re always on the lookout for new ways to do that.

          • Red 9.1.2.1.2
            31 October 2016 at 2:39 pm

            Why did not the union and workers not buy in on Affco if they could run it so much smarter, the unions are so much better at running businesses, osh programs ect especially after the event, why are they not pushing worker cooperatives and buyouts, and utilising the immense talent of those who run unions to foster as such, they always seem to have the answers, it would beat thier current strategy of constant bleating

            • Siobhan 9.1.2.1.2.1
              31 October 2016 at 4:37 pm

              If all workers were united they probably could.
              Unfortunately Union membership is low. One factor in this being management ‘encouraging’ workers to sidestep the unions. Then there is the issue of workers having to move around a lot due to poor wages, uncertain working hours, less than satisfactory housing. It makes is hard to convince workers to operate as a group and buy out their bosses.
              Worker Co-ops overseas have been successful in factories where the workers are all long term employees and have a history of being united through Unions..

              • Red …
                31 October 2016 at 5:27 pm

                And then prevent new membership when the cost of a new member is more expensive re value lost by existing members than hired labor, where all capitalist at the end. These model also tend to fail ie Israel, Italy and Spain when cost of external monitoring and decision making makes them uncompetive to other forms of organisation, fonterra a classic case been a supplier coop vs a workers coop

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  31 October 2016 at 9:45 pm

                  Utterly incoherent 😆

                  I’d stick with the ad hominem flailing if I were you.

            • Psycho Milt 9.1.2.1.2.2
              31 October 2016 at 4:40 pm

              Why don’t people hardly making enough to live on buy out the businesses they work for? I dunno, it’s a complete fucking mystery of the universe, that one. I guess we’ll never know.

              • Red …
                31 October 2016 at 5:28 pm

                If it stacks up a union could raise external finance to takeover business and replace ownership of firm from capital to workers. I would expect immediate increase in value of the firm accruing to workers as we all know a union really know how to run a business better

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  31 October 2016 at 5:29 pm

                  This must be on Planet Ignorant Right Wing Fuckwit, where unions are flush with cash.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.1.2.3
              31 October 2016 at 5:34 pm

              Bleating.

              What did your Quiisling sycophancy ever do to keep forestry workers alive?

    • millsy 9.2
      31 October 2016 at 2:15 pm

      The New Zealand Government is out of the coal mining business, for the first time in about a century. Which was the plan all along.

  10. rhinocrates 10
    31 October 2016 at 12:51 pm

    This fustercluck has not happened by mistake, months of dedicated effort have gone into making it as bad as possible:

    https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/plea-humanities

    Otago University is cutting the humanities budget severely. For over a year now they’ve been making a hash of it, keeping the faculty uncertain about their fate – freezing positions, offering and then demanding early retirements, then stalling. Now there’s talk that who departments may be “invited” to re-apply for their jobs.

    The university admin has acted in bad faith with added incompetence for good measure.

    You can forget any myths you may believe about “Ivory Towers” or security of tenure. Universities in New Zealand are shitty employers with bloated management, underpaying staff and rife with bullying of faculty and students that is condoned and exploited by management to keep them “in line.”

    • Rosemary McDonald 10.1
      31 October 2016 at 1:21 pm

      This would be the same Otago University which responded thus…

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/campus/university-of-otago/protest-against-uni-animal-lab

      to anti vivisection protesters….

      “A cardboard heart representing each animal that died in University of Otago teaching and research last year was hung on the building site of its new animal research facility yesterday.
      The 11,358 hearts were placed by the New Zealand Anti-Vivisection Society and other animal rights activists early yesterday.

      Within two hours, the hearts had been removed by university cleaners.
      “We are really concerned by this reaction,” Miss Jackson said.

      “If animal-based research truly was the best and most advanced research method that the university had access to, why would they feel the need to hide it so quickly?”

      A university spokeswoman described the hearts as “graffiti”.”

      I bet those pesky protesters are/were Humanities students.

      (11,388! That’s one hell of a corpse count!)

    • Siobhan 10.2
      31 October 2016 at 1:38 pm

      Its a sign of the shitty times we are living in.
      The Visigoths really are at the gates of Rome.
      Even subjects percieved as ‘elitists’ by some are seemingly seen as a threat to the modern neo Liberal capitalist agenda. Basically anything that involves ‘thinking’ outside of obvious comercial requirements is under threat.

      Of course, ignoring the fact that most of the ‘best minds’ studied arts and humanities.

      https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/oct/21/its-a-crying-shame-teachers-on-scrapped-a-level-subjects

    • Red 10.3
      31 October 2016 at 2:33 pm

      Is that violins I hear, if money is going to more practical degrees, great, arts degree possibly should be relegated to hobbies and full user pays

      • McFlock 10.3.1
        31 October 2016 at 2:39 pm

        Those who think most humanities degrees aren’t practical are those in most dire need of a BA.

        • Red 10.3.1.1
          31 October 2016 at 3:15 pm

          BA Problem is limited use in modern economy, engineering science maths the way to go, critical thinking and ideas no longer in short supply, ability to execute and realise ideas are

          • McFlock 10.3.1.1.1
            31 October 2016 at 3:27 pm

            “execute” in every sense of the word.
            Which is why we need the BA.

            It’s interesting to note that when Otago last to a machete to its humanities division, it cancelled its Russian degree and department. A month or two later “G7” became “G8” to admit Russia. Today we have NZ soldier and diplomats in the same theatres as Russian soldiers and diplomats. Think language skills might be useful?

            • Red 10.3.1.1.1.1
              31 October 2016 at 3:33 pm

              Not when in the not so distant future an app will come out to translate any language on the spot

              • McFlock …
                31 October 2016 at 3:42 pm

                Nice. You want to trust NZ’s diplomatic future to the equivalent of Apple maps.

                And that does nothing about shortcomings and missed opportunities we might have today.

                • Red …
                  31 October 2016 at 3:57 pm

                  Do a post grad business degree focussed on internationsl business and emerging markets, read Tolstoy in your spare time, take your translation app, you will be fine Possibly and under graduate degrees in engineering would help, Russia more than most countries values sciences and engineering, it is a throwback to commie days re rapid industrialisation and materialism over hocus pocus fluffy stuff

                  • McFlock …
                    31 October 2016 at 4:08 pm

                    Apart from the fact that your translation app will tell you nothing about the culture or historical references, you’d be lost with local idioms, you won’t have the connection one gets actually conversing with somebody (or listening to their small talk), you’ll stand out as a foreigner snapshotting every street sign and staring at your map app, so you end up mugged, in a strange land, no app because your phone was stolen and some other bastard who could communicate directly with your prospective clients got the fucking contract.

                    Oh, you’ll be okay most of the time. You might even get work. But someone who actually knows the language and culture, as well as their product, will always do better than a dickhead with an app.

                    • Red …
                      31 October 2016 at 4:17 pm

                      You don’t need to go to uni to learn a language, I know plenty of expats who cope just fine and learn a language and culture through immersion very quickly, likewise read a book helps, you don’t need 5 years in Russian history, language and literature, in essence you become more Russian then the average Russian

                      Likewise your view of advancing technology is very constrained

                    • McFlock …
                      31 October 2016 at 4:35 pm

                      Yeah, you can learn a lot at the time, but it’s better to know it before you need it. Or, more specifically, it’s better to know something more than your colleagues/competitors when an employer needs it.

                      But that’s just “practical” knowledge. The real value of an arts degree is that it gives you a wider perspective, while trades-obsession gives one a narrower perspective.

                      That’s actually my role for a few things at work – I’m not the best coder in the world but I got the job because I use things out of spec in an unorthodox manner. Actively disrupts the problem-solving groupthink from all you folks with a “practical” education.

                    • Red []
                      31 October 2016 at 5:07 pm

                      Trying reading a book called systematic innovation by Darrell Mann or google TRIZ it may open your mind to that innovation is not as creative or arty as you think. I think you clearly underestimate sciences and other practical degrees from a critical thinking, innovation perspective

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      31 October 2016 at 5:27 pm

                      Did someone pretend that the Arts are the sole source of innovation? No.

                      Red’s herrings are starting to smell. Again.

                    • McFlock …
                      31 October 2016 at 5:33 pm

                      And I think you undervalue the contribution a halfway decent history degree can make.

                      It actually didn’t suprise me that TRIZ was initially developed by Soviets – that should give you a clue about the limits of scientific methodology. Sciences without the humanities are doomed to failure, often in pretty catastrophic ways. Although a lack of sciences gives us an average lifespan of 40.

                      edit: seeing as we’re suggesting material now, try “All watched over by machines of loving grace”, a documentary that covered various attempts to engineer societies in the 20th century.

                  • In Vino …
                    31 October 2016 at 4:52 pm

                    I think you are wrong, Red, about how well expats learn languages through simple immersion. Without any formal training in the structure of the language, they tend to be limited to a pigeon-slangy version of the language. They get by in conversation as you say, but eloquence and refinement is rarely attained.

              • Psycho Milt …
                31 October 2016 at 4:38 pm

                Not when in the not so distant future an app will come out to translate any language on the spot

                Hilarious. In reality, computers will soon be able to provide better engineering, science and maths capability than humans, but will still make shit philosophers.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 10.3.1.1.2
            31 October 2016 at 4:50 pm

            Too funny. Mathematics is a BA subject. Fine art is consumed almost exclusively by the wealthy. Hence the prices. You really haven’t got a clue, eh.

            Oh, and why do you hate the film industry?

      • save nz 10.3.2
        31 October 2016 at 2:47 pm

        Who do you think is going to write for the film industry then Red? Who is going to do all that PR that Natz love so much. How will the developers fill their walls with art or journos do media.. How will the Natz be able to steal some music for their promo videos?

        • Muttonbird 10.3.2.1
          31 October 2016 at 2:57 pm

          All Red’s taste is in his mouth. I wonder what the world would look like now if people pursued ‘practical’ endeavours only.

          • Red 10.3.2.1.1
            31 October 2016 at 3:18 pm

            Only during work time, the rest of the time we can sit back and contemplate or what ever rocks your boat ie your hobby, if you monetise your hobby great but don’t ask others to pay for it

        • Red 10.3.2.2
          31 October 2016 at 3:16 pm

          Some one will invent an app shortly 😁

      • Muttonbird 10.3.3
        31 October 2016 at 2:56 pm

        Can’t be violins. There would be none if you had your way.

        • Red 10.3.3.1
          31 October 2016 at 3:20 pm

          You have a point thier but do you need a BA to play a a violin, I am sure plenty of engineers can play instruments, music and harmonics of course is described in mathematical terms 😁

      • Draco T Bastard 10.3.4
        31 October 2016 at 4:03 pm

        Humanities degrees are a great starting place for engineering degrees.

  11. Red 11
    31 October 2016 at 4:11 pm

    Good news, the market is working ( the economist)

    THE battle between clean energy and dirty coal has entered a new phase. The International Energy Agency (IEA), an industry forecaster, this week reported that in 2015 for the first time renewable energy passed coal as the world’s biggest source of power-generating capacity.
    The IEA, whose projections for wind and solar energy have in the past been criticised as too low, accepted that renewables are transforming electricity markets. Last year 500,000 solar panels were installed every day around the world. In China alone, home to a whopping 40% of the 153 gigawatts (GW) of global growth in renewable-energy installations, two wind turbines were erected every hour. Based on existing policies, it forecasts that from 2015-21, 825GW of new renewable capacity will be added globally, 13% more than it projected just last year.

    • Red 12.1
      31 October 2016 at 4:40 pm

      One is fact the other is opinion based on incomplete model trying to replicate and extremely complex system, let’s celebrate some good news for once over Doom and gloom

      • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1
        31 October 2016 at 4:56 pm

        Physics is not an opinion, dipshit.

        • Red 12.1.1.1
          31 October 2016 at 5:14 pm

          It is when you are making prediction of complex systems little man

          • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1.1.1
            31 October 2016 at 5:22 pm

            If you had anything substantive to say, a denier fuckwit such as yourself would have already said it.

            The forecasts made by global circulation models are not opinions either: that’s why they come with confidence intervals.

            It’s quite clear that tying your shoelaces is your idea of a complex system.

            • Red 12.1.1.1.1.1
              31 October 2016 at 5:38 pm

              Settle petal you with give yourself an ulcer💕

            • Red 12.1.1.1.1.2
              31 October 2016 at 5:56 pm

              Need to get reference little man but tied to chaos theory, Lorenz and determinism

              The prospect of the current hiatus lasting until the mid 2030’s (as per the stadium wave and related theories of natural variability) is a decisive test for IPCC’s AGW detection arguments. Detection of AGW is a prerequisite for the IPCC’s attribution arguments. The IPCC’s statements of 95% confidence that most of the warming is anthropogenic, and expectations of substantial warming between now and 2036, has the IPCC skating on very thin ice,

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                31 October 2016 at 7:32 pm

                Plagiarism is dishonesty: you can’t even acknowledge your source, which is Judith Curry’s blog.

                Even funnier, the full quote ends “in my opinion”, which makes you a hypocrite as well as a plagiarist.

                Oh, and the IPCC doesn’t author any GCMs, so statements of opinion about the IPCC are utterly irrelevant to the point, which is that mathematical models are not opinions.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                31 October 2016 at 7:44 pm

                PS: that doesn’t mean that models are right: to the contrary: all models, no matter how useful, are wrong. You cannot grasp this simple concept – you are incapable of understanding it.

                Well, either that, or all your bullshit about models is cynical dishonesty. Charity demands I assume you’re a fuckwit rather than a liar.

                • Red …
                  31 October 2016 at 8:49 pm

                  Aaaaw your so cute when you talk tough, all puffed up, vien popping, hyperventilating little man

                  • Muttonbird …
                    31 October 2016 at 8:55 pm

                    Have you not read the policy? If you are going to attack a commenter directly you might have to be a bit more subtle.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    31 October 2016 at 9:39 pm

                    Aww you’re so feeble when you respond to substantive arguments with ad hominem attacks.

                    *you’re
                    *vein

                    Semi-literate too: thanks for making my point: you really don’t understand how models work nor what they’re for. No anger here, just ridicule 😆

              • Andre …
                1 November 2016 at 4:20 pm

                Just curious, Red, did you check when those words were written and what’s happened to global temperatures since then?

  13. weka 13
    31 October 2016 at 11:19 pm

    [In order to keep OM and DR free for other conversations, all comments, link postings etc about the US election now need to go in the dedicated US election discussion here.

    If you are unsure, post in that thread rather than here. It’s not possible for moderators to shift comments from OM to there, so any comments here may get deleted – weka]