Payne snubs Pompeo on China regime change

15 comments on “Payne snubs Pompeo on China regime change ”

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1. Whispering Kate 1

   30 July 2020 at 2:12 pm

   The Australian Foreign Minister should have told Pompeo that the US should get its own house in order first and regime change there should be a first priority.
2. Byd0nz 2

   30 July 2020 at 2:12 pm

   Regime change aspirations. That is the Uncle Sam way. Did they threaten NZ with Regime change if we didn't kow tow to their Hong Kong view on the HK Security law?
3. Tiger Mountain 3

   30 July 2020 at 2:19 pm

   US Imperialism was the scourge of the world’s people throughout the 20th century, and the 21st so far. A shameful, very long list of attacks, wars, sanctions, election tampering, dirty tricks and spying were conducted by the USA to try and impose “democracy”–often code for oil and resource grabs–on other countries populations at huge cost and minimal useful outcomes. How many actual wars has PRC China started on other countries territory since its formation?

   Why should credence be given to a filthbag like Mr Pompeo, or a failing Nation which the US clearly is becoming these days? Or their bullying deputy dog–Australia–in these parts. Australia gives the NZ people the cold shoulder indeed these days, “ANZAC spirit” seems for ceremonies only in 2020.

   The US/5 Eyes war mongering should be seen for what it is–last gasp of US and Anglosphere imperialism, not some noble defence of “democracy”, which barely seems to exist in United States itself at the moment.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     30 July 2020 at 2:39 pm

     US Imperialism was the scourge of the world’s people throughout the 20th century, and the 21st so far. A shameful, very long list of attacks, wars, sanctions, election tampering, dirty tricks and spying were conducted by the USA to try and impose “democracy”–often code for oil and resource grabs–on other countries populations at huge cost and minimal useful outcomes.

     True so the question that follows should be:

     Why should we let China now do the same bloody thing?

     No, we should not be trying to do regime change in China (or anywhere else). That is up to the people that live there.

     It may be that we should support them after their revolution but not before.

     Australia gives the NZ people the cold shoulder indeed these days, “ANZAC spirit” seems for ceremonies only in 2020.

     The ANZAC spirit died out years ago and we really should be disposing of the corpse.

     The US/5 Eyes war mongering should be seen for what it is–last gasp of US and Anglosphere imperialism, not some noble defence of “democracy”, which barely seems to exist in United States itself at the moment.

     The US democracy was designed to produce an aristocracy of the rich while giving a faux feeling of power to the common people. It has been surprisingly effective at doing just that.
     • Phil 3.1.1

       30 July 2020 at 5:35 pm

       we should not be trying to do regime change in China (or anywhere else). That is up to the people that live there.

       I agree with the broad sentiment, but when was the last time that any material political/social decision in China was decided by "the people"?
       • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

         30 July 2020 at 5:39 pm

         Back when they had their revolution against their aristocracy.
       • Mike Smith 3.1.1.2

         30 July 2020 at 7:19 pm

         1949
         • Lettuce 3.1.1.2.1

           31 July 2020 at 11:28 am

           Interesting. And how about Tibet and East Turkestan?
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.2.1.1

             31 July 2020 at 3:51 pm

             Good question. They say that they aren't Chinese, that they don't want to be part of China and the UN says that people have the right to self-determination. The UN also has rules against aggressive war and invasions.

             So, why is the UN allowing China, under its One China Policy, to forcefully annex them?
             • Mpk …

               31 July 2020 at 5:48 pm

               I would say that the problem with the UN "allowing" this to happen is the same as the UN "allowing" the humanitarian disaster in Yemen and the anexing of Palestinian land by Israel. If the event is backed by a state with veto powers then the UN is powrless to act and in fact cannot act since it has no mandate
4. Draco T Bastard 4

   30 July 2020 at 2:33 pm

   We need to maintain our independence too as agents for peace, and continued friendly relations with China.

   Although I agree with the first part why do we have to maintain friendly relations with China when they're obviously not all that friendly to us?

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/82092018/china-threatens-reprisals-on-nz-dairy-wool-and-kiwifruit-if-government-doesnt-back-off-cheap-steel-inquiry
   • tc 4.1

     30 July 2020 at 4:02 pm

     Totally and let's not omit the likely State sponsored theft of IP and technology from hacking efforts around the globe.

     Russia has form on this front (more a disruptor) then there's friendly ole Uncle Sam, gosh spoilt for a choice of provocateur.

     Trust nobody, focus on making NZ resilient. Covid creates opportunity to stand apart.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   30 July 2020 at 4:46 pm

   Pompeo, one suspects, hasn't played Go. I wonder if he has even become accomplished at Chess (which is less subtle).

   The game was invented in China more than 2,500 years ago and is believed to be the oldest board game continuously played to the present day. A 2016 survey by the International Go Federation's 75 member nations found that there are over 46 million people worldwide who know how to play Go and over 20 million current players, the majority of whom live in East Asia.

   Despite its relatively simple rules, Go is very complex. Compared to chess, Go has both a larger board with more scope for play and longer games, and, on average, many more alternatives to consider per move. The number of legal board positions in Go has been calculated to be approximately 2 × 10[to the power of]170, which is vastly greater than the number of atoms in the known, observable universe, estimated to be about 10[to the power of]80. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)

   Strategic thinking works differently when your mass psychology is different, eh? How long have the yanks been failing to learn this elementary fact? Does the Council for Foreign Relations even give night courses in Hive Mind 1.01 to newbies like Pompeo?
6. millsy 6

   30 July 2020 at 11:11 pm

   "Pompeo is calling for the Chinese people to rise up against their government with the support of the United States."

   From what I am hearing, the Chinese people are more or less OK with the current system that they live under.

   Not saying that China is a wonderful place, or there are no problems, (because there are a total fuckton of them), but the people are not so naive as to think a multi party democracy will solve all their problems.

   For the record, Chinese are free to speak out and be critical against the government, and many do, and there are elections, in which people can vote on who makes up their local council, who in turn, vote on who makes up the next level right up to the top. It isnt a dictatorship.
   • observer 6.1

     30 July 2020 at 11:37 pm

     "For the record, Chinese are free to speak out and be critical against the government"

     I can't tell if this is a serious comment or not. Can you provide a link to any free media – any open criticism at all? Who is the leader of the opposition in China? This guy was leader of the opposition in New Zealand. He seems to have a similar view to yours …

     https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/09/11/800145/simon-bridges-opens-up-a-foreign-policy-divide-on-china

     Press freedom in China: ranked 177 in world.

     https://rsf.org/en/ranking/2020

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