Perceptions of National’s government

Written By: - Date published: 12:57 pm, September 6th, 2014 - 114 comments
Categories: election 2014, john key, national, same old national, slippery - Tags: , , , ,

How John Key and a few of his acolytes like to think of his government.

john key dean barker

 

And then there is how everyone else now does…

Judith Collins End

Why? Well there is the list of his ministers that have been dismissed for abusing their position.

But mostly it is because of the nasty nature that lurks beneath..

John Key and Whaleoil - both Scum

In my view, a vote for John Key and National is a vote for more arseholes like Cameron Slater.

Labour may want to “Vote Positive”. I don’t as I’ve had seven long years dealing with this arsehole blogger and others like him. Get rid of the creeps in National and the supporters who supply him, and who are like him. Stop them destroying our society and our blogosphere.

114 comments on “Perceptions of National’s government ”

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  1. Kiwiri 1
    6 September 2014 at 1:07 pm

    Yuck. Almost spat our my lunch at the keyboard. That third picture!
    I have voted. Vote early, vote for a change in government!

    • Clemgeopin 1.1
      6 September 2014 at 3:58 pm

      “That third picture!’

      One is ugly and nasty from the outside. The other is from the inside.

  2. Tracey 2
    6 September 2014 at 1:13 pm

    now that needs to go viral…

  3. weka 3
    6 September 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Speaking of ethics, Sharon Murdoch’s cartoon on How to lose your moral compass,

    https://twitter.com/domesticanimal/status/508008846388785152/photo/1

    • yeshe 3.1
      6 September 2014 at 5:22 pm

      hi weka .. what method are you using for cutting and pasting cartoons like this ? never knew we could .. mny thx. I am on pc, not mac …

    • geoff 3.2
      7 September 2014 at 8:26 am

      The only flaw with that is that it implies that John Key had a moral compass to begin with.
      John Key works for John Key, no one else.

  4. Mike Smith 4
    6 September 2014 at 1:43 pm

    ….and Oracle came from way behind to pip #teamkey at the post

  6. Ant 6
    6 September 2014 at 2:01 pm

    You loonies on the standard are way too hard on John Key. How many lefties have been the PM of New Zealand and an All Black at the same time???

  7. newsense 7
    6 September 2014 at 2:14 pm

    Love the Herald front page again- Cunliffe and some candidate, Labour living dead, Key (look at me with this lady on a bike) Labour ‘distracted’

    policy from the Nats?? Talking about policy? anything but that!

  8. Black Lemming 8
    6 September 2014 at 3:06 pm

    GET RAW
    Cunliffe needs to come out punching on Wed TV 3 leaders debate , playing the statesman for ‘vote positive ‘ will gift it to Key . This is a huge constitutional crisis ,lets go for the throat . LIst 1.2.3.4 the Ministers and there pending crimes .Key will brush aside but
    Lange would have said …deep breath …” Every time I go past your billboard John I could swear you nose looks just a little longer ….” Follow up the last week with billboards on all major urban motorways with John Keys nose getting slightly bigger all week .At the base one word . Johnocchio.

    Here’s another one .Over iwi -kiwi ?, lets go Nazi -Natzi.

    Shane Jones would be perfect for Wed ,up front fire brand old school passion . You need someone who looks into the empty fridge , has hungry kids at school , who struggles to pay for the most overpriced houses in the world ,who understands how dirty dairy has drained us dry and is now activley promoting the systematic degrading of the last remaining clean rivers and streams .

    …Cunliffe ” Why is it John , just why is it ,…….that John Cambell did more for child poverty in one day than National has in last six years ? Pounds the lectrum , body language tightens , forgets the minders , actually starts feeling not thinking and actually articulates the enormous anger about how ordinary kiwis have been mistreated and mislead by a National Govt which seems to now to function soley to assist ,a trojan horse take over of every aspect of NZ Govt and life by offshore corporate business interests .

    “Yes John you can walk on water , but can you walk sewage ,. because mark my words we are going to get to the bottom of this ,and John … John …no …let me finish…John …..I have the express and collective backing of the leaders of Mana /Greens /Labour and NZ First and as a united front we are not going to take this any more , we are not going to take this any more ! Nz doent want it . we dont want and its not going to happen any more ! Wow, the worm goes up …..

    David you must find something exceptional and genuine to lift the left block with some real emotion . Dont eat for 3 days , don’t sleep in the 1st 24 hours get genuinely angry and when you come out out to fight go for strait for the emotional jugular .

    Sorry but ive just had a gutsful of well coached plastic presidential style glibness on both sides .Get Raw .

    • Clemgeopin 8.1
      6 September 2014 at 4:56 pm

      Good points!
      Labour has lots to win and National lots to lose. Go for the spectacular. Logic, Truth and Passion. All or nothing.

    • Brendon 8.2
      6 September 2014 at 5:19 pm

      Brilliant. Just love it.

    • Mary Anne 8.3
      6 September 2014 at 8:49 pm

      Good question Black Lemmington, “why is it,……that John Campbell did more for child poverty in one day than National has in the last six years?”
      #getraw

    • Thinker 8.4
      7 September 2014 at 7:12 am

      Surely, that’s a glass-half-empty view.

      After all, another cycleway was opened yesterday, so the poor & homeless will be able to tootle around Godzone much easier than before. Maybe, even, pick up a few scraps left by wealthy recreational cyclists.

      I remember, as a child, a global ‘dissing’ of Blyton’s ‘Famous Five’, largely because they were stuck-up snobs who cycled around the country, belittling and over-crticising the plight of those less fortunate than themselves (sometimes even setting their dog onto some poor unfortunate). And now, in NZ, here we are building cycleways, but stopping short of lifting the minimum wage above the poverty line…

  9. b waghorn 9
    6 September 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Can any one tell me what will happen if for argument s sack nats win then in 6 months key is found out to be in on all of what’s gone on do’s it mean new leader or another election?

    • Rob 9.1
      6 September 2014 at 4:05 pm

      If Key is not in on it then he must be incompetent
      If all this has been going on around him and many of his other ministers for 6 years
      –and they say they do not know!!
      Watch out that pig flying around you is not just someone throwing their food.

    • meconism 9.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:15 pm

      I am not sure b waghorn but I suspect that your hypothesis is a distinct possibility. Nats win, just, then senior frontbench Nats start getting arrested for breaking the law and frogmarched in handcuffs out of Parliament is my fantasy.

    • William 9.3
      6 September 2014 at 5:16 pm

      Here’s my pick.
      Winnie goes into coalition with Key, the price is a Royal Commision as well as Winnie being deputy PM (well they gave him Treasurer last time). After the Commission reports back Key resigns and Peters automatically achieves a lifelong ambition of becoming PM. Shortly after that he loses a confidence vote because there’s so many Nat MPs in prison he is way short of a majority, & so we have a new election. 🙂

  10. Tom Jackson 10
    6 September 2014 at 3:34 pm

    In my view, a vote for John Key and National is a vote for more arseholes like Cameron Slater.

    Well, that’s the reason I’m voting for the first time in many elections.

    • blue leopard 10.1
      6 September 2014 at 3:37 pm

      😀 😀 😀

    • cogito 10.2
      6 September 2014 at 4:30 pm

      Cameron Slater is Key’s alter ego… exactly as per the image. They both need their oxygen cut off.

    • Clemgeopin 10.3
      6 September 2014 at 5:05 pm

      My two ticks for Labour will be clear, distinct, positive and firmly made.

      Any votes for National now are dirty ticks.

    • Rodel 10.4
      6 September 2014 at 6:40 pm

      Tom
      Please, please take 10 people with you. I will.
      Labour just needs 8,000 more and there were some 800,000 who didn’t vote last time.

  11. ianmac 11
    6 September 2014 at 4:46 pm

    The 3rd pic of morphing Key/Slater is clever, funny, and true. Great laughter in our house.

  12. infused 12
    6 September 2014 at 4:59 pm

    Actually, thats what was written about labour today. The walking dead.

  13. Gruntie 13
    6 September 2014 at 5:57 pm

    proud to say I voted 2 TICKS TO LABOUR today – get rid of the corrupt Key & Co – corrupt morally and in black ops – $500m could fed hungry kids rather than waste on tax cuts. English today almost admitted would be better to pay debt – just a bribe to the clueless and duped – MSM proving to be as shit as they have been last 6 years

  14. Mark Wilson 14
    6 September 2014 at 6:22 pm

    It is interesting that the left are so hateful. Slater gets hammered for doing what most of those on this website do. And I am interested in the left’s contempt for anyone who doesn’t agree with them inclduing the half of the population who vote National.

  15. Rodel 15
    6 September 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Mark Wilson
    People are hammering Slater for emailing such things as,
    On Helen Clark.
    “I’m going to get John Tamihere and Michael Bassett to knife the bitch”

    And when Harper Collins pulled out of the publishing deal
    “I’m going to write a book about politicians rooting..”

    and referring to ” The childless and barren minister Ruth Dyson….”

    On a prison inmate who tried suicide after being moved away from his family, ostensibly at Slater’s request
    “Send him a message to tell him to try harder next time.What a loser. Can’t even kill himself properly. He’s a c**t”

    Mark, This is why he’s being hammered. You’ll find strong language on the standard but not this sort of obscenity. Slater is a National’s political pornographer.

    It might help your perspective to read Hager’s book and see what is really happening in your party.

  16. Sanctuary 16
    6 September 2014 at 7:11 pm

    I must admit I’ve been really puzzled by National’s supposed poll popularity. It doesn’t square with common sense. A lot of (soft, I don’t associate with hard core Tories) National voters I know have been really shaken by the dirty politics stuff. Several have changed their vote over it. I do know that National seems to have the low-information voters in the provinces who rely exclusively on right wing propaganda from the MSM for news completely in the thrall of the cult of Key.

    My gut feeling is the polls are even more inaccurate than they proved in 2011, due to the rapid decline in landlines and the numbers of undecided/refuse to answer voters is at unprecedented levels.

    • Saarbo 16.1
      6 September 2014 at 11:56 pm

      “I do know that National seems to have the low-information voters in the provinces who rely exclusively on right wing propaganda from the MSM for news completely in the thrall of the cult of Key”

      This is so accurate! But many are starting to question Key…so its a race to the election…i.e the slow realisation from traditional Nat voters that their leader is a crook versus 20th September…

  17. Mark wilson 17
    6 September 2014 at 7:19 pm

    Given the income levels on average of Nat voters is higher than the left if they are “low information” who rely on “right wing propaganda” etc so clearly aren’t to smart then as income is a reliable predictor of intelligence then a lot of the left can’t be to bright.

  18. infused 18
    6 September 2014 at 7:20 pm

    Calling 50% of the population low infornation voters is why u lot are not going to be in power this year.

    • Sanctuary 18.1
      6 September 2014 at 7:26 pm

      “… low infornation voters…”

      Quite.

      But I guess I ought to humour you, it being the election campaign and all. It is hardly the fault of the good people of Napier or New Plymouth they are low information – they’ve been kept deliberately in the dark by a centralised right wing corporate media aided and abetted by the nasty nests of crony self-serving vipers that have sprung up in the local media blackout to exploit their local economies.

      The left want to make sure no one is kept in ignorance indeed, I do believe the left believes that even you may one day be led to the sunlit uplands made possible by the liberating power of knowledge.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.2
      6 September 2014 at 8:08 pm

      Pretending that the electorate is the population is your trump card??

      Pretending that the polls are accurate is your blankie?

      Straw, meet clutching.

    • karol 19.1
      6 September 2014 at 7:45 pm

      Surely this must be satire?

      When John Key’s name comes up in conversation in world political circles, one observation is commonly made. “Again and again,” attests Malcolm Turnbull, “people say, ‘What a pity he’s not the leader of a bigger country. He’s just so good.’ ”

      New Zealand’s prime minister for the last six years makes no effort to hide his gratification on hearing this. If he could choose a bigger country to lead, which one would it be? “It’d have to be America,” he shoots back. “Who wouldn’t want to be the leader of the Free World?”

      Your standard-issue politician would never be so honest, so brazen. “Our opponents say more children are living in poverty than when we came into office,” Key tells me. “And that’s probably right.”

      • Jenk 19.1.1
        6 September 2014 at 8:07 pm

        No – its just another puff piece on John Key – with an Oz twist to it – destined to go world-wide, and to make Key look good in NZ

        • karol 19.1.1.1
          6 September 2014 at 8:20 pm

          Except, what looks good about being a PM for status and power, and little else? And then we get how he’d just as rather be PoTUS. And to cap it all of he’s really glib about the rise in child poverty.

    • Puddleglum 19.2
      6 September 2014 at 11:29 pm

      “When Good Weekend accompanies Key on a recent campaign visit to the Wellington Institute of Technology, a young polytechnic graduate in the building trade tells Key he’s weighing up job offers. “I’m taking the best offer, obviously,” says Josh. “I’m always chasing the money.” Key approves, loudly: “That’s my boy!”

      If anything encapsulates what is wrong with the neo-liberal nurtured attitudes that dominate New Zealand this is it: ‘I’m always chasing the money’??

      We are encouraging our young people to pursue this fool’s gold?

      Is this how vacuous we have become?

      A nation of ‘hollow men’?

  20. Mark wilson 20
    6 September 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Question – 250,000 children in poverty. If you gave there parent (and it will almost always be one) an annual income of $100,000 how many would be left in poverty? Almost all because low level intelligence will out.

    • mickysavage 20.1
      6 September 2014 at 9:00 pm

      I let your comment through because it was so stupid. Fancy putting your name to such a load of tosh. So with complete confidence you propose something extremely unlikely but then say with utmost confidence that the consequence of this extraordinarily unlikely event will be utterly predictable. How weird.

      Besides you should learn the difference between “there” and “their”.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.2
      6 September 2014 at 9:03 pm

      🙄

  21. Sans Cle 21
    6 September 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Brent Edwards is checking fact against fiction. Key is caught out, again and again. I despair how he gets away with it. No one pulls him up in questioning.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/252810/election-2014-fact-or-fiction

  22. Bill 22
    6 September 2014 at 11:05 pm

    Lovely post. Unfortunately, the ‘dirty politics’ that Hager highlighted appears to be taken as shit on the par with normal political nonsense. So, the perception is ‘as was and has always been’.

  23. NZJester 23
    6 September 2014 at 11:05 pm

    Just two more weeks now till the only poll that really maters will be concluded.
    I just wonder what Dot Com has planned still. Is that big September 15th announcement mentioned back in July still going to happen and will it be something big like he promised?

  24. Mark wilson 24
    6 September 2014 at 11:38 pm

    So the personal insults from the left flow as usual – nothing new there. The fact remains that no achievable amount of money will save most of the children in poverty because there caregivers are incapable of looking after them. The left would rather the children continue in poverty than accept the truth.

    • Puddleglum 24.1
      6 September 2014 at 11:41 pm

      Hi Mark,

      Can you please provide verifiable evidence for your claim?

      Thanks.

    • blue leopard 24.2
      6 September 2014 at 11:54 pm

      Take it away Oxfam:

      “The world’s 100 richest people earned a stunning total of $240 billion in 2012 – enough money to end extreme poverty worldwide four times over, Oxfam has revealed, adding that the global economic crisis is further enriching the super-rich.”

      “Oxfam is a leading international philanthropy organization. Its new report, ‘The Cost of Inequality: How Wealth and Income Extremes Hurt us All,’ argues that the extreme concentration of wealth actually hinders the world’s ability to reduce poverty.” [2012]

      Read More: http://www.trueactivist.com/worlds-100-richest-could-end-global-poverty-4-times-over/

      • CnrJoe 24.2.1
        7 September 2014 at 6:20 am

        And Key could personally end it here. Max could probably do it from th housekeeping.

        • blue leopard 24.2.1.1
          7 September 2014 at 11:22 am

          +111 Cnr Joe … or just a few of the wealthiest in NZ could end it (would cost less per person if they collected together with that aim).

          But no, instead they promote and vote for policies that lessen social mobility and make poverty worse.

          Let us remember too that they do this just so that they can get more, when they already have plenty.

  25. Sans Cle 25
    6 September 2014 at 11:52 pm

    @Huginn
    Any other evidence of Odgin’s dubious links? That article is extraordinary……allegations nearly beyond belief. Know if it is being investigated, either here or Interpol?

  26. Mark wilson 26
    6 September 2014 at 11:56 pm

    I lived in Weymouth close to Clendon for 2 years. I shopped there and watch the shopping carts being filled up with cigarettes and booze while the children around were thin and bedraggled. I saw the devastating treatment they received from their parent, the drug dealers prosper while the children needed to be fed at school because their parent decided their habit was more important.
    I have seen the children with parent inflicted injuries who were never taken to a doctor because their coward parent didn’t want to go to prison.
    Have you?

    • McFlock 26.1
      7 September 2014 at 12:04 am

      🙄
      Did you see the people working 40-60hrs/wk trying to raise a family on minimum wage?

      probably not, because you didn’t want to.

      edit: it must have been hell, having to mix with the plebs in the supermarket like that. My heart bleeds for you.

    • miravox 26.2
      7 September 2014 at 3:42 am

      “Have you”

      I lived that life for awhile when I was a kid Mark. Until my alchoholic mother was forced, through beatings, to leave home. Life was better after that. I know what it’s like when no-one gives a shit, Mark. Even when they know what’s going on. Do you?

  27. Mark wilson 27
    7 September 2014 at 12:08 am

    I saw that and more.
    Nothing you or anyone else has
    Said can refutes the truth – the bottom of the heap are cannot care for their children.

    • McFlock 27.1
      7 September 2014 at 12:16 am

      The only “truth” that you have made evident is that those who regard themselves as being higher up in “the heap” can’t construct a coherent thought.

      A wound up little ball of projection, assumption and judgement, ain’tcha?

      Tell me, did you ever report the obvious abuse you identified? What was the outcome of the investigations?

    • blue leopard 27.2
      7 September 2014 at 12:27 am

      There are a lot of people who are not caring for their children properly, Mark. Not all of them are poor.

      I view this as a wider problem than individuals. We all need to chip in and try and make this society a better place.

      Putting people down who are at the bottom of the heap is not where it’s at and is shitty behaviour.

  28. Mark wilson 28
    7 September 2014 at 12:21 am

    I win. The left can’t control their insults once they can’ t answer the truth – there is a huge number of people who can’t look after themselves let alone children.

    • McFlock 28.1
      7 September 2014 at 12:29 am

      “Win”?
      We’re talking about the mistreatment and poverty of children, and you think that this is about who wins the “miss congeniality” award on the internet?

      Dude, children are dying. Not from assault, but from diseases that have a clear socioeconomic relationship. Kids are going to school without breakfast, not because their parents are on the piss but because their parents literally do not have enough income to put a roof over their kids’ heads and food in their kids’ mouths – and almost always the kids eat before the parents. These are the actual facts, demonstrated time and time again by MSD, NGOs, social researchers, and anyone who thinks that demonstrating a “fact” takes more than just peering into people’s shopping trolleys at the supermarket.

      I also note that you ignored the question about whether you reported the abuse you allegedly witnessed. That was your responsibility, your self-claimed means of alleviating the suffering of at least one child. Your silence is deafening.

    • ropata 28.2
      7 September 2014 at 1:46 am

      Seen it all Mark, humans aren’t perfect but frankly that’s a piss poor excuse for throwing 250 000 kids on the scrapheap. Shame on you and your greedy ilk

    • One Anonymous Bloke 28.3
      7 September 2014 at 5:24 am

      Fact: more unemployed under National: the party that creates more poverty.

      Fact: lowest unemployment level in NZ history: 2007 under Labour: the party that tackles poverty.

      • Wayne 28.3.1
        7 September 2014 at 7:59 am

        You may have heard of the GFC. A lot of countries are still struggling to get out of it. NZ is doing almost the best in the OECD.

        And voters are not stupid. They know this stuff, because they have lived it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 28.3.1.1
          7 September 2014 at 8:05 am

          You may have heard that profits carried on increasing while wages went backwards. Voters are not stupid, they know this stuff, because they have lived through it.

          In any case, I’m talking about the entirety of New Zealand history, not this current pack of mongrels staining you with their filth, Dr. Mapp.

    • framu 28.4
      8 September 2014 at 8:43 am

      “The left can’t control their insults once they can’ t answer the truth”

      funny thing is YOU havent answered a single response put to you – you just reappear with some more nonsense then refuse to back yourself up when the foolishness of what you say is pointed out.

      So seeing as you can be arsed backing yourself up why should anyone here give a shit about treating you with any kind of respect?

  29. ropata 29
    7 September 2014 at 1:56 am

    i am south auckland born and bred and on behalf of all the hard working under paid people trying to raise families and make ends meet i say a hearty f**k you Mark, you lying shit. I worked at Pacific Steel in Mangere for years, pumped gas on Takanini, laboured at sites across Auckland and the hardest workers were definitely not snivelling little asswipes like you

  30. graeme 30
    7 September 2014 at 8:15 am

    The biggest problem facing nz is simply David Cunliffe is unlikable along with the politics of the far left.

    You guys backed the wrong horse.

  31. Mark Wilson 31
    7 September 2014 at 8:43 am

    OK so we are all agreed as shown by the comments here –
    – When faced with an unpalatable truth the left always resort to insults – see above.
    – Poverty is a useful predictor of intelligence – ask the people who work at WINZ – I have.
    – Most on the left do not have the intelligence to understand identifying a problem does NOT mean you agree with it.
    – There are plenty of people who are on the same income as the bottom feeders who look after their children well so why can’t the parent of the 250,000?
    – More money will NOT solve the problem. When the left do in due course win an election they will throw the wealth creators money at it as usual and after 3 years the children will not be better off.
    – Until the bottom feeders are given financial incentives and disincentives to breed the children will continue to suffer.
    – But thats OK with the left because realities that go against their beliefs will be ignored.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 31.1
      7 September 2014 at 8:53 am

      Fact, always more unemployed under National, the party that creates poverty.

      A reality that goes against your belief. You ignored it so I’m rubbing your face in it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 31.2
      7 September 2014 at 8:56 am

      Fewer unemployed means the children are indeed better off. Mark Wilson’s beliefs rely on him ignoring that fact too.

    • dv 31.3
      7 September 2014 at 8:56 am

      Hey Mark
      Just found another another of the Hateful commenter your were commenting on yesterday.

      Its you

      • One Anonymous Bloke 31.3.1
        7 September 2014 at 9:08 am

        It is indeed: Mark’s lies are the embodiment of hate, his refusal to engage with, for example McFlock’s responses betray his aversion to contrary opinion, his inhuman attitudes to fellow citizens demonstrate his low character.

        We need to flush people who share his anti-social bile out, and make sure New Zealanders are protected from them.

  32. Mark wilson 32
    7 September 2014 at 9:50 am

    So far no one has denied the truth – the bottom feeders cannot look after their children. What is hilarious is even when mocked for inability to argue without resorting to insults they keep it up! Amazing!

    • dv 32.1
      7 September 2014 at 9:56 am

      Mark Hotchin is a Bottom Feeder
      What do you know about his children?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 32.2
      7 September 2014 at 9:59 am

      Yeah, in fact several people have challenged your ignorance; Mickysavage, Puddleglum, McFlock, myself, Blue Leopard, and so on.

      Pretending we haven’t is a bit daft when everyone can see, no?

      Oh, and calling people bottom feeders and then complaining that you feel insulted makes you a hypocrite too.

    • framu 32.3
      8 September 2014 at 8:48 am

      “So far no one has denied the truth ”

      they have – up and down this thread – repeatedly

  33. Mark Wilson 33
    7 September 2014 at 9:56 am

    Ok I will go away and leave you all to talk about child poverty but not achieve a damm thing about it.
    The right create the wealth and the left waste it and the children continue to suffer.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1
      7 September 2014 at 10:00 am

      Nope. Per capita GDP is always higher under Labour led governments, and unemployment is always lower.

      Get your facts straight.

    • dv 33.2
      7 September 2014 at 10:15 am

      ‘The right create the wealth and the left waste it and the children continue to suffer.

      The finance companies in NZ WASTED about 3 billion dollars At least)!!!!

  34. weka 34
    7 September 2014 at 10:21 am

    More fact checking from RNZ, including pulling Key up on some of his outright lies.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2014/252810/election-2014-fact-or-fiction

  35. weka 35
    7 September 2014 at 10:23 am

    TradeMe Zigzag John Key auction is back, but it’s a new one, so all the Q and A from yesterday is gone.

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=777346102&ed=true