Politics is indeed a blood sport

56 comments on “Politics is indeed a blood sport ”

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1. tc 1

   25 July 2023 at 4:05 pm

   Sam would know all about hitting things. People in glass houses….better have solid NDA's covering their prior behaviour.
   • Belladonna 1.1

     25 July 2023 at 4:29 pm

     You do realize that A this is a spoof twitter account. And B, you are replicating the behaviour that you condemn in others.
2. Belladonna 2

   25 July 2023 at 4:34 pm

   All of the National MPs quoted (in the actual article that the spoof account riffs off) appear to be highly sympathetic towards Allen.

   https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/25/uffindell-on-allan-arrest-politics-a-blood-sport-sends-support/
   • mickysavage 2.1

     25 July 2023 at 4:45 pm

     Then why did National use Luxon and Simeon Brown to comment on the matter and block Matt Doocey from commenting?
     • Belladonna 2.1.1

       25 July 2023 at 5:10 pm

       I've not seen any comment from Simeon Brown on Kiri Allan's resignation. Can you link to this?

       Luxon commented because he's the leader, and it's his job to do so.

       The article you didn't quite link to – had comments from Uffindell and Muller as well (both highly sympathetic) – drawing on their own experiences with being hunted by the media (yes, yes, for different reasons)
       • mickysavage 2.1.1.1

         25 July 2023 at 6:18 pm

         The article I “didn’t quite link to” was put out a few hours after the article that I highlighted and was after National had received quite a kicking on social media. You will have to ask National why it said that Luxon and Brown were commenting on the issue and why it blocked the interview with Matt Doocey.
         • Belladonna 2.1.1.1.1

           25 July 2023 at 6:25 pm

           Well, given you linked to the spoof of it – it seems difficult to believe that it wasn't publicly available….. Perhaps twitter has time travel.
   • Phillip ure 2.2

     25 July 2023 at 4:47 pm

     Uffindells words are puke-inducing…

     Trying to paint himself as some kind of victim..

     No…he is no victim…he is the assailent…

     The 13 year old boy he beat..(he doesn't remember if he used a bed leg on his victim…yeah.. it's easy to forget such minor details… isn't it..?.

     uffindell should not be there…

     And for luxon/tories to point their fingers at allan…is fucken hypocrisy writ large…

     ..when they excuse this thug …

     (Not to mention their other glaring example…mitchell..the former mercenary soldier/killer for hire..)

     National have no standards..
     • Belladonna 2.2.1

       25 July 2023 at 5:02 pm

       So no forgiveness for the teenage Uffindell.

       No doubt you'll apply the same highly-critical and unforgiving standards to the (adult) Allan.

       The point of the article I linked (the one that was spoofed in the OP) – was that none of the National MPs were pointing fingers at Kiri Allan.
       • mickysavage 2.2.1.1

         25 July 2023 at 6:19 pm

         Remind me what did Labour say about Uffindell?
         • Belladonna 2.2.1.1.1

           25 July 2023 at 6:26 pm

           I've no idea – what did they say?

           I'm commenting on what P ure is saying….
       • Phillip ure 2.2.1.2

         26 July 2023 at 3:11 pm

         You are doing what I highlighted… namely doing some sort of equivalence exercise between Allan's minor traffic accident…and uffindell beating a 13 yr old boy…

         There is no bloody equivalence…!
3. Chris 3

   25 July 2023 at 4:48 pm

   It would've been national's filth machine hunting for anything to bring down most if not all of the however many ministers that've gone over recent months. Their current MO continues to embrace dirty politics with the added requirement to be better at it and don't get caught.

   Sure, some of the Labour people deserved what they got, but there'd have been a similar result if the boot were on the other foot, likely worse given the level of filth inside the national party.
4. Ad 4

   25 July 2023 at 5:37 pm

   It’s more an elite sport.

   Would not be hard to compare our MMP competitive system to a Football World Cup or a Rugby World Cup.

   Then we could rank the teams and their competitiveness, right down to the fitness of the key players.

   It would make List conferences just like the naming of an All Blacks or Black Ferns squad.

   After all politics at national level should be highly competitive, and the fittest and most skilled alone should be chosen.

   And you should not go into politics unless you are an elite player, or you will get hurt.
5. Tiger Mountain 5

   25 July 2023 at 5:38 pm

   The Natzo’s “Bed Leg Basher” Sam, and Barbara the animal torture enabler are a couple of the worst. As I said here previously–you need to be a genuine hard arse to survive for very long in the NZ Parliament. Not too many exit a political career with a grin on their dial–which is an issue for our whole society.

   Kiri should have got a cab. Micheal Wood should have divested his shares. Many years ago there was a diabetic NZ National Minister, Keith Allen who was filmed walking uneasily around downtown Wellington accused of being pissed, Robert Muldoon announced a General Election while clearly trolleyed. Most get hoisted eventually, and it is not right, but the Natzos get away with more because of their media channel contacts and influence.
6. Roy Cartland 6

   25 July 2023 at 5:49 pm

   There was no suggestion anywhere that Uffindel had any kind of mental health issue. He was a shit, and everyone agreed, even himself.

   But the house has been very empathetic to Kiri, so much so that I've had to eat my words. I thought the nats would be awful, but they've been very thoughtful, even hired killer, Mark Mitchell.
7. bwaghorn 7

   25 July 2023 at 6:07 pm

   My 2 cents on Kiri Allen is that she's obviously been allowed to rise to fast and gotten out of her depth, this shows poor management by senior members in labours leadership, talent needs to be nurtured and allowed to ripen slowly. Just because a youngen thinks they are ready for the big time doesn't mean they should be given it.
   • Belladonna 7.1

     25 July 2023 at 6:23 pm

     I don't agree with "rise too fast" – she was (and is) clearly enormously talented and passionate about making a difference. There are too few truly talented people at the top to waste them in time-serving apprenticeships on the back benches.

     But, I'd certainly say that she was loaded up with too much responsibility – too many portfolios and too many changing portfolios (every time you gain a new portfolio, it takes time to get up to speed, and be at your best).

     The temptation of management (in all spheres, not just politics) to give more and more work to the competent – because they get the job done. It's a huge contributor to burn out.

     I've commented before about the weight of portfolios being carried by a relatively small core of senior ministers on the Labour team. This is a weakness, not a strength.

     In retrospect, Hipkins should be worrying whether his need for release of significant policy statements around justice, added unconscious pressure for Allen to return sooner than she should have. The pressure of expectations, and the subsequent internal pressure to perform at your best, is a huge driving force.

     Note: I'm not saying that it was anything to do with her Justice portfolio that triggered the incident – it seems to be established that it was personal; but rather, if she'd taken a month off – she'd have been at home with whanau support when whatever hit her, did so – not isolated in Wellington.
     • bwaghorn 7.1.1

       25 July 2023 at 6:28 pm

       " certainly say that she was loaded up with too much responsibility –

       Sounds like you agreeing with me , to me. !!
       • Belladonna 7.1.1.1

         25 July 2023 at 6:33 pm

         Oh I agree with too much loaded on to her.

         And, it seems clear that she did not have a political mentor to call on, when things went to custard for her, personally, in Wellington. None of the figures who 'touched base' with her – were trusted enough for her to call….
         • Dennis Frank 7.1.1.1.1

           25 July 2023 at 6:56 pm

           They call it responsible government. Constitutional law. To take this notion seriously, one needs evidence that our govt is taking responsibility for what it does. If you employ a minister with known mental health problems, your duty of care blends with taking responsibility for making her a minister.

           Do we see evidence of Labour doing so? I'm guessing the answer is no but I've got an open mind and could adopt a favourable view if any evidence shows up to suffice…
           • Belladonna 7.1.1.1.1.1

             25 July 2023 at 7:28 pm

             I think there is a different (indeed a very big difference) between employing someone with "known mental health problems"- and someone having a breakdown because of personal issues (God knows, relationship break ups are highly stressful, and with a stressful high-performance job on top of it…)

             That's not to say that people in either category shouldn't be employed. But a responsible employer needs to be aware of stress-points, and workloads and how they impact on individuals.

             There is no evidence that Allan has mental health issues prior to 2023. So no reason that Hipkins (or Ardern, for that matter) needed to take any extraordinary level of care (just as there was no indicator for Muller, prior to his breakdown).

             However, once Hipkins was alerted to a high-stress personal situation with Allen – clearly impacting on her mental health – he had a responsibility to take action to support her. We don't know what that action was (and we shouldn't – people are entitled to privacy – even MPs).

             I don't feel that anyone is directly to blame in this scenario – though everyone has their own actions or inactions to own and reflect over.
             • Dennis Frank …

               25 July 2023 at 7:50 pm

               Fair enough. I thought she'd had a track record of it but can't recall the details with clarity.

               The other factor in responsibility is metacognition: to what extent does someone know they are being irresponsible? Particularly germane when judgment is impaired. As in not taking a taxi. And refusing to accompany the cop. I suppose anyone's vulnerable to pressure, but what if they don't realise their vulnerability? Self-awareness isn't certifiable.

               I guess the PM could only trust his personal judgment & she seemed confident she had recovered. From a risk management perspective, it was worth the risk so give her the benefit of any doubt. Understandable.
             • SPC …

               25 July 2023 at 9:15 pm

               There is no evidence that Allan has mental health issues prior to 2023.

               When she was younger her church had her managed for her sexuality.

               "I've struggled with my mental health a good part of my adult life, that's something that I try not to shy away from," she said.

               https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/labour-mp-willie-jackson-s-message-to-those-politicising-sensitive-kiri-allan-case.html

               Such might suggest a role for someone checking on ministers well-being, rather than just than do not be like Curran, Nash and Wood in their lack of compliance with expectations.

               Perhaps the parliamentary leaders of the parties and their party presidents should note some acknowledgement of this.
   • SPC 7.2

     25 July 2023 at 9:13 pm

     Sure, there is a case for new ministers to have a term with a more limited workload, the exception would be where they had years in opposition as spokesperson for the range of ministry positions.

     And also oversight of their awareness of ministerial p’s and q’s (as per Curran etc and Wood with his paperwork and related compliance).
8. CAnker the pig fucker 8

   25 July 2023 at 6:25 pm

   • I think the majority of MPs have been quite sympathetic towards Kiri. Seymour, even Mark Mitchell.

   it’s not about scoring political points. The whole issue is political because she is the Minister of Justice and she has been charged with careless driving, being over the limit with alcohol and refusing to accompany a police officer. Voters have a right to scrutinise this as do the opposition parties. Generally I think people have been very kind to her, because most of us can imagine how awlful this will be for her.

   but there were many warning signs things weren’t right.and Hipkins had many chances to stand her down

   i do want to say that drinking and driving isn’t a symptom of a mental illness. Most people with depression don’t drink and drive and most health professionals would absolutely warm against doing so. She is responsible for her own actions

   Many people on this ite, myself included have had depression, traumatic relationship break ups, cancer. Most of us wouldn’t get into a car and drive when highly emotional or drunk. Willie Jackson talked to her on the phone on Sunday and said she was in a bad way. By the end of the call was smiling and cheerful
   • Craig H 8.1

     25 July 2023 at 9:42 pm

     Not to excuse any of it, but she hasn't been charged with driving while over the limit – that was dealt with at the time with an infringement notice as she was under the criminal limit but over the infringement limit.
     • aj 8.1.1

       25 July 2023 at 10:24 pm

       One glass of wine would bring a person close to the lower limit, 2 would be close to 400

       It does not take much to get close. Tested myself when the limits last changed and a couple of Twelves had me between 250 and 400.

       Have never driven since after drinking.
     • CAnker the pig fucker 8.1.2

       26 July 2023 at 1:51 pm

       As a women, I never drink and drive. One glass on an empty stomach efffects me. Two glasses I would absolutely not be good to drive.

       Here's a question. Do you think she crashed her car because of the alcohol or her emotional state?
       • SPC 8.1.2.1

         26 July 2023 at 1:52 pm

         Or a phone …
       • Anne 8.1.2.2

         26 July 2023 at 5:12 pm

         Good question Anker. It was probably a mix of both. It is not a good idea to drive while under the influence of a distressing experience of one sort or another, but we've all done it. Add a bit of alcohol and the consequences can be huge.

         There but for the grace of God etc……
         • CAnker the pig fucker 8.1.2.2.1

           27 July 2023 at 10:56 am

           Thanks Anne.

           No I have never done it i.e drive under the influence or when I was so distressed that I shouldn't have been driving.

           Not trying to be holier than thou here.

           But it also is about judgement. Ability to self regulate and know when to take time out or not drink
9. Corey 9

   25 July 2023 at 6:33 pm

   National won't let it's candidates show up to anything without Luxons approval.

   We hosted a meet the candidates event a week ago, candidates from every other party took place, we tried for weeks to get a national candidate to get involved and all the national members and MPs were disgusted that we even asked.

   We hosted a comedy show and had every other party send a candidate, except national who were genuinely angry we even asked them to take part.

   National doesn't want us to get to know it's candidates, then again looking at their candidate history, if we got to know their candidates they might catfish us, bash us in our sleep or send our kids nude Snapchats.
   • Belladonna 9.1

     25 July 2023 at 6:50 pm

     Goodness, which electorate?

     Our local one has the National candidate turning up to everything, and all over social media (personal comments – not a chat bot from the electorate office spamming the pages). [I can't say that I particularly like him, but he's certainly working hard]

     The Labour MP – rarely seen. Only pre-formated standard Labour party political messages from his office. Very reluctant to comment on social media (community FB pages, etc.). Turns up to community photo op events (but largely ones that align with his personal political philosophy – although this is possibly true of all MPs)

     I have no visibility of the electorate candidates from the minor parties (if any) – they haven't impinged on my local political radar.

     AFAIK there haven't been cross-party 'meet the candidate' events – though it's not the kind of thing I go to, so might have missed one. There have been both Labour and National 'senior MP + local MP/candidate' events on a particular theme (transport, and housing are the 2 I recall from the billboards on the corner)
10. observer 10

    25 July 2023 at 8:02 pm

    At least one journalist knows a low blow when he sees one …

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/lloyd-burr-what-was-david-seymour-thinking-with-urgent-debate-over-kiri-allan-s-resignation.html

    As for National, in case everyone's forgotten, only weeks ago Luxon was whining about the media even asking questions about him and his wife claiming the clean car discount. So unfair, so personal, yadda yadda … and that was on a relatively trivial issue. His skin is wafer thin.

    But he's now decided how he wants to play it. As soon as he declared that Allan should be treated as a mere extension of Nash and Wood, as if their circumstances had anything in common at all, he put decency in the shredder. So he shouldn't be surprised or play victim when he gets it back – and he will.
    • newsense 10.1

      26 July 2023 at 9:49 pm

      Here’s the quote from the Spinoff:

      If clinical sign-off was applied to all politicians as National leader Christopher Luxon suggests, I suspect parliament would be half empty half the time – because politicians are human too. His comments are a sad and ill-informed weaponising of Ms Allan’s distress for political gain. They reflect disturbing and outdated bio-medical thinking. Not what we need to set the tone when addressing Aotearoa New Zealand’s mental health response.

      https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-07-2023/what-we-can-learn-from-the-response-to-kiri-allans-exit

      But I also suspect there are enormous privacy issues in play too.
11. Peter 11

    25 July 2023 at 9:03 pm

    Judith Collins, Duncan Garner, Iain Lees-Galloway.

    Of course it's a blood sport.

    It's how much of the public want it. Media interviews? The prime goal is not seen as informing, they're to see who 'wins' or 'loses.' A studio discussion is regarded the same as a martial arts bout.
12. SPC 12

    25 July 2023 at 9:26 pm

    Sure, going after Allan (the justice minister) after getting the police minister Nash was clearly part of the chaos campaign of the laura NACT order.

    The timing of the public service informant via media …
    • Anne 12.1

      25 July 2023 at 11:25 pm

      And the Public Service is supposed to be neutral. Pull the other one. It's never been neutral. The various chiefs put on a first class act of seeming neutrality for the benefit of the public but most of it is a sham.
13. observer 13

    26 July 2023 at 8:03 am

    "Luxon's comments are a sad and ill-informed weaponising of Ms Allan’s distress for political gain."

    … according to the head of the Mental Health Foundation. I think we should take more heed of his view than ignorant and unqualified political commentators.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-07-2023/what-we-can-learn-from-the-response-to-kiri-allans-exit
14. James Simpson 14

    26 July 2023 at 9:48 am

    There needs to be a distinction between treating someone fairly when they have mental health issues, and bad behaviour. I

    n my observation there has almost been universal sympathy for Kiri in that respect.

    Where the criticism has been very pointed is the bullying allegations against her, and her decision to drive on the streets of Wellington after drinking. Health issues do not excuse either of those things.
15. Patricia Bremner 15

    26 July 2023 at 9:59 am

    Christopher Luxon has one set of standards when it affects him or the National party, and reverts to hunter mode at any sign of weakness in Government Ministers.

    By being sole voice for National he is controlling his rather pathetic lot. He won't be able to control all interactions once the Election local meetings begin, he will have to be "everywhere man."

    As for Seymore, he could not resist in the house. He had his Deputy off stage making sympathetic noises in a formulaic way, but he kept the political machinations for a quick debate, as he smelled opportunity.

    No quick debate on Bridges or Kruriger though, or Uffindell for that matter. He and Luxon have a very big bumpy rug, with all that has been swept under it. imo.
16. Sabine 16

    26 July 2023 at 10:17 am

    My issue really with this whole story is simple. Kiritapu Allen is now a a drink driver.
    If they would have taken a company car to drive after going out for drinkies and would have crashed in a parked car and then resisted (and i don't give that too much value all things considered) they would have lost their jobs immediately. And they would get charged for all the laws they broke. If they were ordinary Jo / Jane NZ. And no one would have any pity to spare nor would they be expected to show pity to some rich lister who broke the law. Why are we to consider Kiritapu Allen the victim in all of that when they took decisions that well turned out bad?

    Drink driving is the one thing that causes havoc in NZ every other weekend, school holiday etc. Constantly. So much damage and death.

    And they had a driver at their disposition. A tax payer funded driver on a 24 hour call.

    Why this person choose to take to the wheels after drinking i can not fathom, but that does not make them a victim. Neither does being Maori, as many Maori don't drive after having had a few drinks. Neither does being a female and a self identifying lesbian, as many females and lesbians don't drive after drinking.

    IT was a bloody stupid thing to do, and as Minister of Justice, ass. Minister of other stuff, and as member of Parliament they should have known better and they should have acted better.

    All things considered i actually put most of the blame on their boss, PM Chippy, who should have told Kiri to stay at home for a longer mental health break rather then call her back in and put again stress on Kiri, stress that they obviously could not handle.

    Maybe for all their personal goods, they were not cut out for life in the public light and certainly not for the portfolio of Justice.

    None of that is the fault of any party on the opposition, but Kiritapu Allens. They decided to go out for drinks, they decided to drink more then the allowable limit, and then they decided to take the car for a drive home. No one forced them to do that.

    Maybe a heartfelt and honest ' I am sorry' and "i am lucky' for only hitting a car rather then a person would be the best thing to do for Kiri.

    Anything else is just desperate paddling away from actually happened. The minister of Justice going on a drive whilst drunk.

    Quite sad actually.
    • roblogic 16.1

      26 July 2023 at 10:40 am

      Chippy should have kept her on the back benches after all the shit she has been through this year, and her drunken outburst at RNZ earlier this year.

      Kiri has some great qualities but like all of us some pretty significant character flaws.

      I wish her well, and hope this marks a turning point for her life.
    • Anne 16.2

      26 July 2023 at 10:42 am

      Oh dear, there are a lost of suppositions there Sabine – black and white stuff with no acknowledgement of the grey areas between.

      Who said she was drunk apart from a few third grade journos. She had a couple of drinks which in the normal scheme of things do not make a person drunk. Sure, she should not have driven herself home but she's paid a huge price for that.

      Being so righteous after the event is easy but doesn't mean it is accurate. I don't know if she went out for drinks with a bunch of people. If so, do you think they would have let her drive herself home if she was drunk? I doubt it.

      She has already made several heartfelt and honest apologies that you seem to have missed.

      Looks to me a bit like you have created a bit of a fantasy there to suit your preferred take on the event.
      • Sabine 16.2.1

        26 July 2023 at 11:46 am

        which fantasy Anne?

        that they drove a governmental vehicle into a stationary car? They did.

        that they drove whilst drunk? They did.

        that they resisted arrest? They did.

        that they are maori – and many maori don't drink and drive. True that too.

        that they are female – and many females don't drink and drive. True that too.

        that they are a lesbian – only human females are lesbians – and that not many lesbians drink and drive? True that too.

        that we have many car accidents with people maimed and killed thanks to drink driving and that Kiri should be happy and relieved that they did not cause such an accident whilst driving under the influence of alcohol? check the news every other weekend or have a chat with your local volunteer rural firefighters.

        that they are/were the Minister of Justice and associated minister of other things? Yes, they were.

        that they still receive a wage until election day? That too is true.

        that they would have been fired by any company should they have caused a drink driving accident in a company vehicle? totally true.

        Maybe you need to take your rose colored glasses of your eyes and actually understand what happened.

        A Minister of Justice, went for drinks, did not call a driver, but drove themselves under the influence, crashed in a parked car, resisted arrest and is now rightfully called out for their abhorrent behaviour.
        Either drink driving is an offense for all or it is for none.

        Looks to me a bit like you have created a bit of a fantasy there to suit your preferred take on the event, meaning, drink driving is OK when it is done by Labour Minister of Justice. For shame. For shame.

        edit: and it matters not one bit if they went for drinks by themselves or with others, and it matters not that if they were only a wee tiny tizy bitzy bit over the limit (limits are limits not targets) or blotto. Once you are over your two standard drinks it is best to call an uber, taxi or the tax payer funded driver that Kiritapu Allen had access to.
        • Anne 16.2.1.1

          26 July 2023 at 11:55 am

          Trying to re-direct your own behaviour back on to me and adding a load of shit that was not part of the subject matter or in contention.
          • Sabine 16.2.1.1.1

            26 July 2023 at 12:04 pm

            you still fail to point out where i indulge in fantasy my dear.

            Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
        • Jester 16.2.1.2

          26 July 2023 at 5:47 pm

          Agree with you totally Sabine. Not sure why Anne thinks you are in 'fantasy land' as you have clearly stated the ' knowns' or facts, whereas she seems unable to come up with anything to dispute them. The owner of the ute has now released video footage to the NZ Herald by the way.
    • CAnker the pig fucker 16.3

      26 July 2023 at 3:00 pm

      I agree 100% Sabine.

      I would feel the same way about anyone who drove over the limit.
      • Anne 16.3.1

        26 July 2023 at 5:20 pm

        So, are you suggesting she had a breath testing kit with her and tested herself. She discovered she was over the current limit and decided to drive herself home regardless?
        • CAnker the pig fucker 16.3.1.1

          27 July 2023 at 10:59 am

          Not at all that she had a breath testing kit with her.

          Because the limits are so low now,many people abstain from drinking when they know they are going to drive or say just have one drink with food.

          She's a lawyer and the Justice Minister, I might have thought she would be in a better position to know than many people.
          • Anne 16.3.1.1.1

            27 July 2023 at 2:16 pm

            Fair enough points.
17. Anne 17

    26 July 2023 at 10:18 am

    It would not surprise me one little bit if, further down the track, Kiri Allan returns to parliament. She has such a lot to offer that she will be encouraged to do so when the time is right.

    In the meantime she will have time to recover from her personal troubles and perhaps take on a pastoral role of some sort among her own people.

    There are plenty of instances of people who, for one reason or another, lose their positions of authority and return at a later date to pick up where they left off.

    A good example was Colin Moyle back in the 1970s. He, too, had been a victim of dirty politicking and he didn't in the first instance handle it well. He lost his ministerial responsibilities and resigned from parliament. He returned a few years later, older and wiser, and had a successful parliamentary career.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Moyle
    • Patricia Bremner 17.1

      26 July 2023 at 11:48 am

      Thank you Anne, my take as well.
18. Ffloyd 18

    26 July 2023 at 1:06 pm

    Anne. Totally agree.

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