Rambo has been constrained. Now about those other semi-automatics?
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- Date published:
4:39 pm, March 21st, 2019 - 80 comments
Categories: jacinda ardern, Politics -
Tags: gun control, MSSA, order in council
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has announced a ban on all military-style semi-automatic weapons and all assault rifles.
This afternoon, she announced that every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on two mosques in Christchurch last Friday would be banned under more stringent gun laws.
As of 3pm today an order in council took effect. The changes to the regulations would mean the firearms were now catergorised as needing an E-class licence endorsement.
This means no one will be able to buy the weapons without police approval. Ms Ardern said there was no point in applying for one.
For those who are already in possession of these weapons, Ms Ardern said the firearms would be tightly regulated, while for everyone else, the weapons would now be effectively out of reach.
She also said the government would be establishing a buyback scheme to take the firearms out of circulation.
There is quite a lot of detail more. (and you have to love the bad editing on ‘catergorised ‘ – someone needs a better spell-checker ).
Now that is a good first step. It is what can be done immediately within the current legislation using an order in council. That gets a military style weapons from being sold (updated: and means most existing MSSA need to be turned in).
They will proceed to banning them, having a buyback, and giving substantial fines and prison sentences for possession of up to 3 years via legislation.
The Police Association has called for semi-automatic weapons to be banned, while Fish and Game said it supported a ban on military-style semi-automatic weapons.
I agree with the Police Association on this.
As much as I like working and playing with semi-automatic (and automatic) weapons, there is substantially no real difference between a military style semi-auto and other semi-autos. The self-arming mechanism is exactly the same. The MSSA style just have other features that make them easier to use.
But anyone moderately skilled with an enhanced magazine and a few judicial structural cuts with a non-military semi-auto firearm can get very close to the same fire rates and killing convenience.
Immediately Updated
My understanding updated via Dennis Frank:
Police Commissioner Mike Bush: “for many people, you will now be in unlawful possession of your firearm. Given this is an immediate change, there is an amnesty to allow the notification and hand in their firearms to Police.”http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1903/S00640/police-announce-process-to-hand-over-reclassified-mssas.htm
He then outlines what folks must do to become law-abiding. There will be thousands of attack weapons flooding in – I hope the media gets photos of the result, because it will have a profoundly positive effect on youngsters!
Of course that is the case. If someone has a class A gun license, they can no longer possess what is now a class E weapon.
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Jacinda Adern ,- our Queen Boudica of peace.
Christchurch mosque shootings: Military-style semi-automatics and …
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214988
/Agree.
She hasn’t really put a foot or a knee jerk wrong. About the only thing a cynic like me can find fault with is that someone should tell her the difference between bought and brought. (Just in case she needs to pass IELTS level 7.5)
And for those that now seek to circumvent the change, it’s pretty clear what the intent of the new legislation will be.
Hang on
You just compared Jacinda Ardern to Boudica?
Far out.
Funny how a little thinking time changes a quick skim.
I was flicking through and thought “her of the scythed chariot? seems odd, but I guess ‘strong women’ yadda yadda”. Then this evening I see your comment and had another think, and it went from “odd” to “yeah, a bit off”, then I remembered the treatment of the captured cities and it all went “oh fuck no”.
tldr: yeah fair call 🙂
That’s why i changed it from war to ‘peace’.
Ie … warrior of peace.
Remember the ‘Rainbow Warrior’ ?
Enough said. Churlishness is not nice.
I just think that maybe you could have picked a comparison who didn’t slaughter thousands of innocent civilians – in this case, y’know?
Rambo can still get off fifteen rounds before having to reload….
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1903/S00135/nz-bans-military-style-semi-automatics-and-assault-rifles.htm
“2. What semi-automatic firearms will NOT be affected by the ban?
There is a balance to be struck between public safety and legitimate use. The changes exclude two general classes of firearms which are commonly used for hunting, pest control, stock management on farms, and duck shooting:
• Semi-automatic .22 calibre rimfire firearms with a magazine which holds no more than ten rounds
• Semi-automatic and pump action shotguns with a non-detachable tubular magazine which holds no more than five rounds”
Hmmm…. and 100-200million to buy back the toys from the boys who can’t shoot straight.
Because, like, we have to strike a balance.
It’d be 1/2 the cost to buy less depreciation and if they’ve not been relinquished within four weeks ….
Should be 3 years in prison for possessing or manufacturing or selling or trying to import magazines with more than that capacity without a license.
I suspect that would get the attention of those with a limited understanding of obeying the law.
I’m still struggling with a five (shotgun) and 10 (.22) round magazines when Fish and Game…
” Military style semi-automatic weapons could fire 15 to 20 shots without the need to reload, whereas duck hunters only needed three or four shots, he said.
“We are supporting any limitation to the magazine capacity … on semi-automatic shotguns.
“In some areas in New Zealand now, Fish and Game already has a regulation that you can’t have more than a two shot magazine.””
So the new laws double this….why not set the limit lower, then make those who ‘need’ larger capacity magazines jump through mega hoops to get a permit….and then only under strict conditions.
Methinks there have been major compromises made here, and I’d be very interested to know who were the stakeholders demanding the extra capacity.
Shooting animal and a person on the run is bloody hard and even bloody hard if your is body under stress or if you are on a two range which is even harder still.
I shot a wild dog on run at just under or over 200m with my 30. 30 lever action in which I fired 3rds at it and hit it with the third rd which didn’t kill it until I finished it off with the 4th rd.
A big shout out to all our political parties who have worked together for New Zealand on this matter.
That’s some stellar leadership.
Thank you.
Good move. Love it. Well done.
😍
Next step would be to commission some artist to make surrendered guns into something uplifting.
I was hoping the metal would be recovered and sold for scrap. The $$$ raised to go towards funding for much needed mobility equipment…?
Wouldn’t hurt – or they’d make great high spec rebar for the Christchurch rebuild.
Actually a monument dedicated to the victims made out of these things would not be too bad an idea. One dedicated to peace… such as several monuments in the USA between the Native Americans and the Federal govt… though,… that would involve so much… or may even be viewed by some as tacky and insensitive.
Probably better just to destroy them.
It sounds a bit Game of Thrones. But a creative option.
Heh… I haven’t had a telly since about 2004… so all I hear is what others tell me and lookin’ things up on the net .
I sure don’t miss TV.
I just have found memory’s of this :
Used to love Ena , Albert and Minie… highlights of the show…
Ena Sharples and Albert Tatlock get drunk (3 November … – YouTube
Still very funny Wild One. A simple plot with great script and perfect casting.
Awful choice.
If they are used for anything it should be for a monument for ‘stupidity ‘
Would have thought if you were going that way some sort of tributes outside the mosques would be more relevant but dig your idea
Never had a doubt
I have to say thanks to Simon Bridges the National Party leader. Good work that man. So very pleased you are there not anyone else, really pleased in fact.
He was lucky some emotional junior staff member didn’t delete his support. 🙂
Lol
Great leadership.
Now, about those weapons bought during the past week’s panic buying…
Did you see that story of the courier van left unattended with boxes of recently bought guns? I always thought we were a lucky country, but I now think we were just complacent.
We’re a lucky country. Australia is the Lacky Country.
heh
hopefully they’re like cars – used price as soon as they’re driven off the lot.
yup, at least 30%
Yes, I agree we ought to give credit to the Nat leader for his appropriate role in support of the ban:
“National has been clear since this devastating attack that we support changes to our regime and that we will work constructively with the Government. We agree that the public doesn’t need access to military style semi-automatic weapons. National supports them being banned along with assault rifles. We also support the Government’s proposals to limit the access to other high powered semi-automatic weapons and ammunition,” he said. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12214988
But this is an immense victory for the coalition plus Greens. Oz did it in 12 days, we did it in 6 days, and that demonstrates undeniable political competence at the top level. Those who are thinking `but wait, the legislation isn’t till early April’ may not be aware that the law has been changed by order-in-council. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_in_Council
Yeah it is overwhelming, though we don’t have states with the power of veto like Australia does… that aside,… despite political expediency and ‘image’… it is a good work that there is unanimity between the party’s.
“Brunetti had no interest in hunting, judging it an endeavour that was expensive, inconvenient and excessively loud. Further, experience as a policeman as well as his habit of reflecting upon human behaviour had too often suggested a frightening correlation between a man’s interest in firearms and feelings of sexual inadequacy.” P48 “Uniform Justice” by Donna Leon.
Just happened to be reading this today……..
The weapons announcements are a good move by this government. I listened to a replay of Parliament last night and am not surprised by the announcements today from what I heard, especially from Chris Bishop, National’s police spokesperson. He, like the dozen I heard, spoke very well, from the heart and with considered wisdom.
I was very surprised by the quality. At the end, the Speaker announced a ruling that banned the use of coloured document boxes that adorned the tops of the desks. They had already gone I noticed by then.
In line with what Seymour said about identity politics and how easy it is to go to a place where opponents are demonised and then killed, this is too a good move. It might force MPs into consideration of each other as human beings, as listening to each other’s hearts did yesterday, and following the superb lead from the PM also acknowledged by them yesterday.
A good day in Parliament.
🙂
Already the shit from the small balled die hard’s is starting.
One lone Simon Lusk and co and his murky mates. The trainer for far right wing neo liberal Dirty Politics attack politics fame…
Changes to gun law overseen by Jacinda Ardern criticised | Stuff.co.nz
https://www.stuff.co.nz/…/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-…
WK….I believe you’re linking to a headline on Stuff describing the changes to the gun laws that came into effect before Christmas…
“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern oversaw recent changes which meant gun licence holders did not need to visit police stations when applying for permits for assault rifles, but could instead apply online.
Previously under the Arms Act, if someone wanted to become a gun dealer, get a firearms licence, import a restricted weapon, or get a permit to buy a MSSA [military style semi-automatic], they had to physically deliver an application to their nearest police station.
For example, if someone with an E-category endorsement was buying an MSSA, they would have to visit their police station for a permit, show the permit to the seller, and then take the weapon back to police.
Under the changes, which came in just before Christmas, that process could be done online, and the firearm shown by video call. Police could ask to see the weapon in person if they were not satisfied they had identified it.
A critic of the change, firearms lawyer Nicholas Taylor, said: “It’s been done for all the wrong reasons – this is exactly an example of the type of problem that’s caused this event [in Christchurch].””
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111438784/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-as-crazy
Stuff’s coverage has been technically abysmal to the point of incomprehensibility.
The video accompanying that piece has Simon ( everbody’s bff if you pay me enough) Lusk scaremongering over the potential $$$ cost to the gummint if the PM goes wild with reforms. He can breathe easy as the worst failed to happen.
It would be a change driven by Police, while there would probably be a cabinet paper to cover that , it might have been numerous other changes included. I doubt if Ardern was even aware in more than a casual way that these things happen. Orders in Council are made by the Governor General plus some other senior cabinet ministers with a pile of paperwork after the cabinet decision. Technically cabinet is a sort of committee of ‘The Council’
good.
well done NZ government and opposition. It was the right thing to do.
Take them off our military and police as well. Haven’t goons like this fellow done enough damage?
https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1264718680/915/3253915.jpg
Yeah , give the Police rubber bands to shoot at criminals armed with rifles and shotguns…. send our peacekeepers overseas with rolled up newspapers…
I’m sorry but… hey…
Yeah , give the Police rubber bands to shoot at criminals armed with rifles and shotguns….
I never suggested that, of course. Argumentum ad absurdum: the lowest form of sarcasm.
… send our peacekeepers overseas with rolled up newspapers…
“Peacekeepers”? New Zealand’s notorious SAS thugs are under investigation right now for provoking firefights, for strapping the corpses of their victims to the bonnets of military vehicles and driving them into villages to intimidate the locals, for kicking in doors, and flexi-cuffing innocent civilians. How is that “peacekeeping?”
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-disturbing-story-behind-willie.html
I’m sorry but… hey…
Your inability to formulate a coherent response has been noted.
WTs response was appropriate, funny and coherent Morrie. It was a signal that you made a pretty absurd statement that needed further explanation.
One “WILD KATIPO” has attempted, unwisely, to be clever….
Yeah , give the Police rubber bands to shoot at criminals armed with rifles and shotguns….
I never suggested that, of course. Argumentum ad absurdum: the lowest form of sarcasm.
… send our peacekeepers overseas with rolled up newspapers…
“Peacekeepers”? New Zealand’s notorious SAS thugs are under investigation right now for provoking firefights, for strapping the corpses of their victims to the bonnets of military vehicles and driving them into villages to further terrorize the locals, for kicking in doors, and flexi-cuffing innocent civilians. How is that “peacekeeping?”
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-disturbing-story-behind-willie.html
I’m sorry but… hey…
Your inability to formulate a coherent response has been noted.
Go have a cup of tea and a lie down and don’t take yourself so seriously. I notice it took you hours to put your reasons up. Don’t blame me if your original post lacked the full backings of your findings either. What are we to make of it when you dont supply it and put such an inane comment in isolation?
Anyways. whatever.
And that smart shit little piece of garbage at the end?
… ” Your inability to formulate a coherent response has been noted ” …
What a real Rick the Prick you are.
Just another far Left wing screamer.
Rick from The Young Ones Cliff Poem – YouTube
….and don’t take yourself so seriously.
What I take seriously is the role of our government, via the crimes and atrocities committed by the thugs of the SAS, in the agony inflicted on Afghanistan.
I must say I like your response this time. Always appreciate a Rick-pick. Well done, ‘Po.
Every arguement is better with Rik
(Also I’m drunk)
“Take them off our military and police as well. Haven’t goons like this fellow done enough damage?”
(shakes head. Re-reads thinking I got it wrong. No. I didn’t)
FFS
First off I’m sure everyone will be pleased to know this doesn’t affect me at all, my .22 semi auto is safe
Secondly I’m pissed with the police, yeah they can talk about banning and shit but how about they do their jobs properly and then maybe we won’t have these nutters killing people in the first
Lastly I did say that I thought all semi autos should be moved from A category to E endorsement so I’m glad to see that Jacinda agrees with me, she obviously reads this site
Hows Judith ?
Shes all good 🙂
🙂
Pucky’s pleased as piss, after contributing over 70 comments on three recent ‘ban guns’ posts, including this gem:
Pucky Pucky Pucky, teeny-weeny tiny-whiny silly little Pucky.
Have a nice warm cup of tea and a wee lie down rinky-dinky runty-stumpy sawn-off silly Pucky.
Brought to you by the Puckish Rogue University of Debating Etiquette – good Judith-hunting.
Yeah nah
Basically Maui didn’t realise that you can go back and read what you’ve posted so he/she thought he/she was being clever but wasn’t
Pleased as piss… yes. I wonder how much he’d had to drink at that stage…..
At that stage none 🙂
Reckon the Police will be paying a bit more attention to licensing checks. Not sure you’d get a gun in the new environment!
The police need to own this, this is caused by their complacency, their laziness, their…whatever, they facilitated this, the blood of 50 dead are on their hands
Edgy. You’re definitely not getting another gun now.
Might have to look at the Ruger Mini-14, looks pretty good and not a MSSA or assualt rifle
What about a de mil M21 with a 5 round box attach? Or one of these de mil
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle very user friendly for you righties to use.
I really just want my nice, cheap, reliable little ruger 10/22
From the looks of it mate, you may get to keep it at this stage unless there is blowback at the proposed law changes atm. But it will always depends on the thin blue line upholding the letter of IRT the Firearms Law which appears they still didn’t uphold the letter of Law this time again IRT the current act.
New Zealand’s vetting process for any type of firearms license is stricter than anything here in Oz. But cops in NZ don’t won’t to enforce the strict vetting requirements and the law, then this shit will keep happening. There is a lot of piss off cops atm because due process wasn’t followed IRT to the vetting and complaints about this…….. and at the Bruce Rifle Range won’t followed up.
Wish the damm Fourth Estate started to follow up on some the leaks and people’s comments coming out of Dunedin and in CHCH atm.
As one source has said, it maybe the reason why Bushy is in CHCH not Wally atm?
Good point, I’ll sell the .22 and buy the completely legal bolt action .50 cal instead
Big budda boom! 🙂
Whatever you feel you need to do to make your life complete…
Like I could afford the 10 grand for the rifle and 10 bucks a round…
It’s going to depend on the wording, type of semi auto rifle as well as there are a number of old school rifles like the
M1 Grand
M1 Carbine
SKS
M14 and M21 Sniper Rifle
G43 the W2 German Sniper Rifle (hardly this these now Rifles now due the bolt cracking on them due low quality metal being use at the time manufacturing)
The Johnson Rifle from Canada?
There are 3 10 shot Semi Auto’s from France, Belgium and Italy which I’ve forgotten their names in .308, .223, 7mm
Those can be De- Mil to take a five shot mag along with all other stuff taken off like bayonet lugs, flash suppressors and Rifle Grenade Attachments etc would still fall in with the A Cat Licence requirements. Most of these weapons have a fixed Magazine with a quick release at the bottom of the mag for unloading so cutting , welding a stopper or making a 5rd mag to size and to fit would quite easily to by an certify police approved gunsmith.
It would be interesting to see what happens to those that have the C Cat Licence? I know a few single seat Vampire and Venom owners might be sweeting atm, as you can’t De Mil the Aircarft because you will upset the CoG if you tinker with the 20mm guns as they keep the A/C finely balanced.
PS, there is a Russia Sniper and its many variants callled the Dragnov or whatever it’s name is, fires a half decent round a 7.62x 51mm from memory a little bit larger than the 7.62 NATO or .308 rd. Could also fall under a Cat A Licence and I know a few NZ Coppers who use it from target shooting to deer shooting etc
Thing is, most people don’t have a problem with museums and that sort of level of curated firearms storage. And I’m not sure that an aircraft cannon is so finely balanced that one can’t compensate for wedling it shut by drilling a bit of metal off somewhere else on the barrels.
But what I found to be particularly gobsmacking is that you can buy ammunition without a license. You can’t buy explosives or fireworks beyond a certain level without permits, but you can muy ammunition by the crate? WTF? Let alone the magazines – I thought we’d restricted MSSAs after Aramoana (another one just down the road from me), but it turns out we’d just implemented a pinky-swear system that people wouldn’t buy big magazines if they owned an ar15 on an A licence.
Even 0.5 Cal if an article I read recently is correct. I mean hell those things are small cannons …
Today’s announcement is of course welcome and in the correct direction, but a more comprehensive and formal review is at least months away, and a lot more complex.
Have the coalition announced that? All I saw was notice of follow-up legislation for April 10. I get that the devil may be lurking in those details, but he’s always real good at hiding, enough to make politicians weary with the effort of nailing the bugger, and thus forever turning away towards something easier…
Some individuals that hold a C Cat License, have some amazing collections of weapons with armouries that would put most police and NZDF/ ADF to shame IRT security and management to shame. I know when I was shooting with own SLR and SKS in Service Rifle Shooting Comps and semi formal shoots with the SEA veterans IOT maintain a good level of marksmanship during the big to the NZDF under National whilst I with 3 Land Force Group in the 90’s, That I had the opportunity to shoot some famous well known and equally some not so famous for obvious reasons aka technical and manufacturing. These collections also provide those members understanding of various weapons and they sounded, yes all weapons have a very distinctive sound when fired prior to deployment to such places to Bosnia, Somalia, the Solly’s and ET under a UN Missions or UN Supported Missions aka INTERFET.
Yes, there were so many loop holes in the Firearms Act it wasn’t funny and I almost assemble a .303 Mk3 and Mk4 Bren Gun (had the Tech Pam as well) by buying bit and pieces here and there and I only need a the body to complete it. I believe this loophole and many others within the act was meant to have been closed under the recommendations that Bennett was given in last Government but did SFA on it.
Well the Act was meant to work if the Police followed the letter to the law, with all other firearm users if informing the local Firearms Officers, office on breaches of the Act. But once everyone realise the coppers weren’t doing their job in uphold the Firearms Act, then it became a big F…. you towards the system. What Jim posted today and what I’ve heard/ posted today though my sources have said sort’ve confirms the Police Firearms Officer/ Office in Dunedin did SFA about this ……. or what was happening at Bruce Range in South Dunedin. Then this would’ve never have happened all because of soppy work from the Police in Dunedin either because of the restructuring of Firearms Office, lack of money or something else.
I hope Jandals holds a Royal Commission at arm’s lengths from the Police and has the power to summons the Police Firearms from Dunedin and those members of the public that warned the Police in Dunedin and in CHCH at was going on/ certain trends that were developing at certain events.
Yeah I’d agree with that, no license no ammo
It’s the law here in Oz btw. Semi Auto’s aren’t ban here either in Oz but are highly regulated for those who require one aka professional hunters for feral animal control, large land holders and wildlife control people within government or council departments.
It’s actually pretty clear what the intent of all this is, and it’s understandable that after only 6 days it’s not surprising the exact legalese is not yet in place.
But for those screaming ‘nanny state’ nanny state’ ,’shower heads, shower heads’ – especially some that comment on here with a modicum of intelligence, please don’t moan when things go tits up for you in future, or when you find yourselves on some sort of watch list.
Times, they are a changing – unfortunately not fast enough.
To the NRA and Mr Trump.
That is how you do it !
Jagear bombs for the win! Woohoo! Sleeps overrated anyway 🙂
Sleep is not overrated
Anyone who has delusions that we are a democracy, should note that it took 50 deaths, sadly, for politicians to do what most of us, and a select committee which spent a year on it, wanted since Aramoana.
Same with Pike River and industrial safety.