Setting up business: we’re prize winners

35 comments on “Setting up business: we’re prize winners ”

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1. Paul Campbell 1

   18 January 2012 at 11:12 am

   This is so true – I run a small business, do my own PAYE (a line of 6 cells in a spreadsheet is all you need, including kiwisaver) – I’ve also done the same in California – things are so much easier here – those on the right who continually complain about pretend ‘red tape’ are living in a bubble, they have no clues about the rest of the world – as a great kiwi philosopher once said “they don’t know how lucky they are”
2. Jono 2

   18 January 2012 at 11:21 am

   When I became employed on a full-time basis by a small consultancy a few years ago, it took the director 10-15 minutes to find, edit and produce a fully satisfactory employment contract for me from the DOL website. Easy as pie.
   • pmofnz 2.1

     18 January 2012 at 12:09 pm

     Maybe you could email MUNZ members a copy – they’ve been bickering over theirs for months.
     • McFlock 2.1.1

       18 January 2012 at 12:15 pm

       There’s some really helpfuil information on good faith and other employment principles that port management should have a gander at.
     • Lanthanide 2.1.2

       18 January 2012 at 12:19 pm

       MUNZ members have a satisfactory employment contract already. That’s kind of the point of the strike action.
3. Lanthanide 3

   18 January 2012 at 11:26 am

   Thanks Jenny. This is something I really want the left to hammer home. Rodney Hide in particular always went on about “red tape”, why was he never actually challenged?
4. millsy 4

   18 January 2012 at 11:41 am

   Businesspeople only complain about ‘red tape’ if they find they cannot pay their workers 50c per hour, sack them at will, and pour what they like down the drain.
5. Colonial Viper 5

   18 January 2012 at 11:48 am

   “Red tape” is a marketing meme to sway the vast majority of people who are not business owners and who do not organise companies and trusts themselves.

   It has several different effects.

   1) It perpetuates the myth that Govt and politicans are to blame for economic problems, not our system of business, finance and capitalism, nor our rich list.

   2) It forwards the neolib notion of always cutting back Govt power to increase corporate power.

   3) It makes the masses respect owners and corporates more for their fight for success ‘despite’ all the red tape.

   4) It deflects away from the inability of many business people to add real value to their communities in their businesses, as opposed to simply extracting value.

   The fact that the Left does not have a systematic and effective counter narrative after all this time is damning as it sways the minds of too many voters to the Right viewpoint.
   • Matthew Whitehead 5.1

     19 January 2012 at 2:40 pm

     Perhaps we should be talking about the fact that our managers and CEOs are too incompetent to wield a pair of bloody scissors. Red tape is not hard to deal with in this country, as earlier pointed out.
6. Jenny Michie 6

   18 January 2012 at 12:12 pm

   It’s funny that you never hear the right talking about the standard of management in NZ. From quite a lot of first hand experience this is an area in which we could improve….
   • King Kong 6.1

     18 January 2012 at 1:30 pm

     Congratulations. Your one day in business certainly allows you to authoritively comment on NZ’s regulatory environment.

     The reality is that banking, tax and company compliance is pretty good here (probably aided by the fact there are fuck all of us). This is probably what these ranking agencies are using for their tables.

     The real headaches come when you actually want to make or build something. I guess this only becomes an issue for firms who are actually adding value.
     • lprent 6.1.1

       18 January 2012 at 1:38 pm

       I guess this only becomes an issue for firms who are actually adding value.

       You mean like I do all of the time. I’ve been developing, building and selling products and services my entire working life and never noticed a problem with red tape in NZ. I have noticed it in the US, aussie, and the UK.

       However there is one area of business that is actually regulated quite highly here – an I heartily support it.

       That is property developers. Because they have an appalling record of producing good added value for their customers (my leaky building was a good example), there is quite a lot of red tape for them. When you look at people whinging about red tape, it is almost invariably some property developer or builder who wants to produce crap…

       So KK. Does that describe your “added value” situation? Producing buildings and property with flaws that you’d like to flick on to someone else?
       • King Kong 6.1.1.1

         18 January 2012 at 1:56 pm

         Construction is one industry that springs to mind. You are right about ensuring standards of quality but regulations have encroached into areas that just add time and cost (which usually ends up on the consumers bill) and serve no purpose in ensuring that the product is as it should be.
         The same is true in industries such as farming, forestry, fishing, manufacturing and hospitality, to name a few.
         • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1

           18 January 2012 at 2:09 pm

           so what are the specific regulations you think waste time and money?
         • lprent 6.1.1.1.2

           18 January 2012 at 2:41 pm

           Construction does spring to mind. The upfront costs involved in ensuring that I didn’t have a leaky building are way way less than the costs expended in trying to fix and extract money after the fact. Not to mention that wear and tear on me worrying about going bankrupt because some idiot builder fucked up. But there is a simple solution. Lets just ensure that all people in construction are required to carry full prepaid liability cover and that those cases are only allowed to be dealt with in mediation with 3 month limit on resolution. It’d only push the cost up, but I wouldn’t get heart attacks from it….

           There isn’t that much red tape in manufacturing. I was in manufacturing for many years and some of my relatives are still operations or production managers. Most of the red tape is to do with not killing or injuring people or making sure that firing people without reason is limited. Basically it doesn’t worry good managers because the standards are far lower than any good manager would do anyway. It simply makes it harder for incompetent managers. It is also way easier than any other 1st world country I have looked at.

           Most of the “red tape” in farming and forestry has to do with those industries being lousy neighbours – especially when it comes to polluting waterways and dropping crap over public highways. Those cost other people.

           I have zero idea about hospitality…. But generally I’d prefer not to die from diarrhoeal discharges.

           Basically in NZ “red tape” smothering business is a mantra that idiots use. If there weren’t idiots then most of it wouldn’t be required. Mostly it is only the idiots trying to cut corners who have problems with it.
           • Rich 6.1.1.1.2.1

             18 January 2012 at 4:38 pm

             Construction: try building something in the UK. You’re required to get council architectural design approval, with the final decision made by elected councillors, not officials. Same everywhere else in Europe (in wealthy Switzerland, they process planning approvals on a three year cycle).

             Of course some countries have a more liberal approach. Try Somalia, that well known propertarian haven.
     • Paul Campbell 6.1.2

       18 January 2012 at 1:55 pm

       I’ve been in business for 7 years, exporting the whole time, you think I don’t sell a product? don’t add value? I’ve brought millions into the local economy while creating a footprint minuscule compared to the mess made by a single dairy farm. And as I said NZ is a great, easy place to do business – now if only we could get Mr Key’s friends the currency speculators out of our exchange rate – my take home has gone down by 30% since he took office.
       • King Kong 6.1.2.1

         18 January 2012 at 1:58 pm

         Well done you. Lets all become computer programmers. The answer was just in front of our faces the whole time.
         • McFlock 6.1.2.1.1

           18 January 2012 at 2:10 pm

           nah – you need to understand logic to be a programmer.
           That rules out most nats.
           • Lanthanide 6.1.2.1.1.1

             18 January 2012 at 2:31 pm

             Given the average salary of programmers, I think actually they’re strongly right-leaning.
             • McFlock …

               18 January 2012 at 2:35 pm

               fair call 🙂
             • Colonial Viper …

               18 January 2012 at 3:07 pm

               A lot of programmers/computer science types are quite Left leaning actually – systems mindset. lprent?
               • lprent …

                 18 January 2012 at 11:28 pm

                 Seems to split all over the place. But old computer programmers tend to be left leaning. I think it has something to do with the patience…

                 The dropout rate amongst younger programmers is pretty intense as they tend to sideline themselves into deadends by chasing the money rather than the 25% learning curve. Obviously the right leaners tend to be short termers more than left leaners.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   19 January 2012 at 11:12 am

                   But old computer programmers tend to be left leaning. I think it has something to do with the patience…

                   I think you’ll find that it’s got to do with logic. Can’t be a good programmer without being able to realise the needed logic and so the illogic of our present socio-economic system stands out even if only at a sub-conscious level.
                   • Matthew Whitehead …

                     19 January 2012 at 4:01 pm

                     There’s a definite split. Some people are smart enough that they can justify their prejudices after the fact, and they’re incentivised to do so after about a year of working as a programmer due to the high salary.
             • John D …

               18 January 2012 at 3:30 pm

               left/right has got stuff all to do with how much you earn. This kind of argument is facile.
               • King Kong …

                 18 January 2012 at 3:39 pm

                 True. But when you earn a reasonable ammount you do get to experience first hand how you feel about handing over large chunks of it for socialist governments to waste.
                 • Placebogirl …

                   18 January 2012 at 5:10 pm

                   I earn well and the only money I begrudge the government is the money they waste on demonstrably losing propositions like the Puhoi holiday highway.
       • John D 6.1.2.2

         18 January 2012 at 2:26 pm

         Paul – I am in the same boat. Offshore client in UK. Paid in pounds
     • Draco T Bastard 6.1.3

       18 January 2012 at 2:18 pm

       1.) Standard Ad hominem attack
       2.) Puts forward an assertion as to why the ease of doing business rankings are so high
       3.) Asserts that headaches begin when trying make something despite all the firms that actually do make something (the biggest problem with them is that they seem to get sold offshore every time they do)

       Yep, standard RWNJ troll.
     • Rich 6.1.4

       18 January 2012 at 4:32 pm

       I’ve been in business here for several years and in the UK previously. NZ compliance is remarkably straightforward and taxes are low (unreasonably so – it’s trivially easy to turn some kinds of income into capital gains and avoid tax entirely).

       If you can’t meet NZ compliance standards, the chances are you’re sufficiently fucked up that you’ll be out of business anyway in a year or so, probably owing thousands to your poor customers, workers and suppliers.
7. John D 7

   18 January 2012 at 2:20 pm

   Yes I would agree that regulation is relatively light when it comes to setting up and running a business in NZ.

   Xero ( I am not affiliated) is a fantastic online tool for managing your books too. Another Kiwi creation.
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     19 January 2012 at 12:02 am

     Yeah I was looking at that the other day. Might try it out.
8. coolas 8

   18 January 2012 at 9:38 pm

   ‘So what’s left?’ in holding business back, asks Jenny.

   How about the pale, stale, male business elite who think they’re born to rule. They choke NZ board rooms. Pack of greedy, dull, parasites, I reckon.
9. Peter 9

   22 January 2012 at 1:33 pm

   “Why do we insist on swallowing the myth that the right perpetuates out about NZ businesses being bought to a standstill by a tangle of red tape and burdensome regulation?”
   Maybe due to all that economic propaganda in the newspapers people insist on reading, really the economy section bores me to death. Can they please for the sake of my sanity find (and read) an academic journal that doesn’t draw inspiration from Milton, Rand and their ilk. *shudders*

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