Written By:
Dancer - Date published:
3:04 pm, March 13th, 2008 - 26 comments
Categories: tax, workers' rights -
Tags: tax, workers' rights
From the ABC site:
“A peak business group says the Federal Government’s promised tax cuts should be taken into account when deciding on an increase to the minimum wage.
The Chamber of Commerce and Industry is proposing a rise of $10 to $11 – in line with last year’s increase.
The ACTU is lobbying for a $26 increase and the Federal Government is due to make a submission to the Fair Pay Commission on Friday.”
I suspect we will hear similar calls from business groups in NZ once the proposed tax cut programmes are fleshed out. And I would predict that a National government would feel very comfortable with such a trade off.
The fact that increases to the minimum wage will not be a priority under National has already been raised in a previous post in December last year:
National Party labour and industrial relations spokeswoman Kate Wilkinson said National did not oppose the minimum wage but preferred tax cuts.
“Our policy will be on a broader scale and looking at the bigger picture rather than just relying on this artificial solution of having an arbitrary level of what some people think is a fair wage and some people think is not.”
The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
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Yes, I agree. If National tips the employment law scales in favour of business, then tax cuts would be worth sweet FA. Us low income workers could even be worse off than now.
Leftie
Just interested, what would you suggest a government does as the best way to improve your situation as a low income worker.
higherstandard
Consistently increase the minimum wage (and I mean a reasonable increase, not peanuts).
Actively work to keep unemployment down.
Make education cheaper to encourage people to upskill.
Retain fair employment laws.
Thanks Leftie
Those all sound reasonable.
And what would you say your responsibilities are to improve your own situation as alow income worker ?
”
Thanks Leftie
Those all sound reasonable.
And what would you say your responsibilities are to improve your own situation as alow income worker ?”
What a supercilious comment!
higherstandard
One responsibility would be for me to vote for a worker friendly political party.
Continuing to belong to my union’s collective contract, so that I have insurance on my pay and conditions.
Perhaps join Kiwisaver on top of the superannuation I already have.
Are you going to tell me how life will be so much better for people like myself under National?
Leftie – no just interested in your thinking.
Macro what’s supercilious about querying personal responsibility leftie obviously didn’t take offence.
Here is the effect (in 2004 figures – imagine it now!) of having progressive taxation.
Graphing “Ideological Burps’
And to think you guys can’t get to grips with this concept….
Leftie
If we keep increasing the minimum wage while Dr. Cullen’s holding the purse before we know it min wage workers will be paying rich prick tax rates. It’s insane to defend taxation thresholds set in 1999 – only a complete imbecile can’t see how radically different the cost of ‘things’ is now compared to then.
From that link to Gareth Morgan;
Oh dear indeed!
CAPTCHA revenues Con
Here is the effect (in 2004 figures – imagine it now!) of having progressive taxation. […] And to think you guys can’t get to grips with this concept
Good old Burt, he knows so much better than the experts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
“In most western European countries and the United States, advocates of progressive taxation include the vast majority of economists and social scientists.” It’s only Wikipedia, but note the references.
If we keep increasing the minimum wage while Dr. Cullen’s holding the purse before we know it min wage workers will be paying rich prick tax rates.
Do the math Burt. Minimum wage at $28 per hour? That would be nice! We can only hope that the current Labour led government lasts so long.
Hot on the heels of the Reserve Bank’s acknowledgement that it has lost control of inflationary pressures from this overheated economy,
That article was 2004 Burt. Try to keep up.
“Tax has nothing to do with growth’. Oh dear.
See this graph of GDP Burt: http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/Fig2.html
Notice the huge plummeting dive in the 90’s under National (“low tax”?). Notice the generally better performance since 1999 under Labour (who raised taxes).
Yet another case of your partisan ideology done in by ugly facts. Oh dear, Burt. Good night.
Leftie – perhaps your responsibility is to upskil and become more producive, so as to be more valuable to your employer.
I do happen to think people should be upskilling but not to become more valuable to their employer but to become more valuable to themselves.
Of course – if we actually had a free market, we wouldn’t have employers anyway.
Hey righties – if you want to talk “personal responsibility” then you better send me a cheque asap ‘cos it’s my taxes that paid for your education. Oh and while you’re at it you better add in the dollars that paid for your doctor’s subsidies, the public infrastructure you use and maybe some interest as well. Ha! personal responsibility – you chumps wouldn’t know it if it bit you on the arse…
There are quite a few condescending comments here. “Productivity” for low income workers is more about getting them to do more work for less pay. For example, for cleaners it basically means less staff, ridiculous work rates and hours that are all over the place. The euphemism used is “flexibility”.
Really the issue isn’t about productivity, it’s about employers giving workers a larger slice of what they produce already and recognising the true value of their work, rather than the value their economic power allows them to dictate.
That philosophy aside, if employers aren’t willing to invest in training and equipment to increase productivity then it’s impossible for a worker to become more productive.
RS
Doesn’t everyone taxes pay for state education. health and the public infrastructure and isn’t the proportion of total tax paid skewed to those in the more wealthy demographic ?
Your intimation that only those to the left have any inkling of personal responsibility is bizarre !
HS – what I’m trying to point out to you with a bit of (obviously too subtle) satire bro, is that your cult of “individual responsibility” and the “rugged individualism” that goes with it is a myth. We live in a society chump, and our fates are inextricably tied to the nature of that society. But don’t let that stop you trying to imply it’s the fault of the low-paid worker that they’re low paid. Whatever lets you sleep at night, bro…
Oh and if you’re gonna try the mobility argument next, don’t bother you’ll be on a hiding to nothing…
Dear RS Bro
Instead of personal attacks why not reply to the points I raised.
I’m not implying it’s the fault of the low paid worker that they’re low paid although for the younger generation it would be expected that they start on low wages which then increase as they become more experienced and valued as an employee.
For those on very long term low wages other issues must be addressed both societal and personal.
And what would you say your responsibilities are to improve your own situation as alow income worker ?
I may have read more into this than you meant to infer but it does seem like your subtext shows a leaning toward an “it’s the workers’ fault” argument.
Oh no – I used “infer” rather than “imply”. How embarrassing…
Higherstandard, how can low paid workers who work every hour that God gives just to put food on the table and pay the rent have any energy leftover to ‘improve their situation’?
And not everyone is capable of getting a degree or whatever it takes to ‘improve their situation’. Which is just as well as someone has to do the cleaning and labouring and work in the supermarkets etc. The question is how little we as a society will allow them to be paid? Is it at the rate that sometimes not especially competent, and/or greedy, business people feel they can afford to pay? Or do we set a bottom limit we allow them to pay their workers, so that if the business can’t afford to pay at that rate, then it is simply not a viable business?
Higher standard
Referring back to your earlier comments.
Its not the question – Its the way that you asked it! You adopt an attitude of “greater and smarter than thou” – that is supercilious.
It’s an “I’m better than you question” and that I found offensive, whether Leftie found it so or not. The last comment from Hillary takes up much the same point, so I’m not the only one here who finds your approach to social justice slightly self absorbing.
For a start
Hillary
Leftie doesn’t appear to be incapable of imrpoving themselves take a look at their post
Consistently increase the minimum wage (and I mean a reasonable increase, not peanuts).
Actively work to keep unemployment down.
Make education cheaper to encourage people to upskill.
Retain fair employment laws.
They appear to be well educated and very literate and probably well capable of improving their situation.
Macro you might find my approach to social justice self absorbing fair enough I find many of the posts here which suggest the governmanetal intervention is the solution to all societies ills.
I’ve also yet to have any response regarding the screeching from RS from the points I raised several paragraphs above.
GGrrrr. Someone will always have to clean the dunnies!!!
HS
Stop playing games with the socialists. Why don’t you just tell them that it’s obvious that leftie’s not on the minimum wage and his post was bogus shite and that you’re just having sport with them.
Good catch on calling sod on his vitriol which is reproduced below for keen readers
From Robinsod earlier “Hey righties – if you want to talk “personal responsibility’ then you better send me a cheque asap ‘cos it’s my taxes that paid for your education. Oh and while you’re at it you better add in the dollars that paid for your doctor’s subsidies, the public infrastructure you use and maybe some interest as well.”
[lprent: see my addition to your repeated comment – here. One of the ways I define trolling is having the stupidity to paste the same comment in two seperate posts and not expect that a sysop will notice. You will either troll intelligently or depart (willing or not)]
For Rob’s information tax take comes primarily from individual income tax (46%) the lion’s share of that same income tax (53%) that pays for the services Robinsod aludes to comes from those in the highest tax bracket (53%), GST 19% and corporate taxes 17% make up the largest parts of the remainder of govt tax income aren’t these all the same rich pricks according to Sod who need to repay all the money to him that as taxes have paid for their education and their health services, man you guys have a screwed up view of the world seems like it’s the other way around to me.
Hillary
If you have issues I suggest when you take a dump you try to make sure it doesn’t hit the sides.
Interestingly there is apparently a terminology for your affliction – CORPOROPHOBIA
CMB, you are weird.