Two-term panic gripping the rightwing punditry

Written By: - Date published: 10:52 am, October 26th, 2013 - 102 comments
Categories: election 2014, Media - Tags:

John Armstrong, Tracy Watkins, and Fran O’Sullivan all write today about National’s plunging polls and the growing likelihood that this will be the first two-term National government. They take different approaches – Armstrong: there’s nothing for Key to worry about, Watkins: there was a problem but the tide’s turning back, O’Sullivan: yeah, Key’s fucked.

The fact that they’re all talking about it gives the game away. As the polls continue to show a Labour-Greens win, and more of the Nats’ deadwood is retired in preparation for a reduction in their number of MPs, expect more such punditry.

102 comments on “Two-term panic gripping the rightwing punditry ”

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  1. Tat Loo 1
    26 October 2013 at 11:12 am

    Labour/Greens: this is the time to get sharper and play harder. The polling proof is here: the electorate likes real alternatives, delivered confidently and authoritatively. I mean, really likes.

    The goal now is not simply to knock National out, it is for LAB/GR to hold such a solid majority in Parliament that entering into formal coalition with any other parties (although potentially desirable) is not strictly necessary.

    52% Labour/Greens party vote, please, with Mana-Maori on confidence and supply.

    • Chooky 1.1
      26 October 2013 at 11:23 am

      +1….Winnie can be an optional extra in the new Lab/Green Govt ..( only as long as he behaves himself and is nice to the Greens)

      PS Lprent …I want fangs and a scowl…( like philip ure)….I dont want to look like a shocked pink cookie…make me slime Green with teeth…like a taniwha please

      • Tat Loo 1.1.1
        26 October 2013 at 11:50 am

        lol unf I don’t think lprent can choose the little icon things

        But go to https://en.gravatar.com/ and you can upload your own favourite image and associate it with your Standard email address 🙂

        • marty mars 1.1.1.1
          26 October 2013 at 12:06 pm

          I can live with mine but I wish it was the one millsy got

          meanwhile it is great to see the fear being displayed by the right – light is glimpsed at the end of a dark dark tunnel.

        • Chooky 1.1.1.2
          26 October 2013 at 12:31 pm

          Tat Loo (CV)…I think Iprent has just given us temporary ones ( thanx for icon link ..will think about it when i have time)

      • Lanthanide 1.1.2
        26 October 2013 at 1:21 pm

        Chooky, the avatars are generated randomly based on your email address.

        It seems Lynn’s changed to using the little faces rather than the geometric patterns. Funnily enough, that plugin was written by Shamus Young, author of a gaming/programming/random stuff blog I’ve been going to for years and years: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/

        • Chooky 1.1.2.1
          26 October 2013 at 3:21 pm

          …thanx Lanthanide …my gamer son would be interested in that site because he would like to make games ( me I am just a non- gaming Chooky who would like to be a winged serpent)

          I think I prefer my geometric pattern symbol/motif to the pink cookie ( which does something to me…i think it must be laced with something)

      • Chooky 1.1.3
        26 October 2013 at 1:55 pm

        …my persona is nice Chooky on the perch ….but sometimes I want to be a vicious shadow snake and give a nasty bite….never a pink cookie!

        • Chooky 1.1.3.1
          26 October 2013 at 2:29 pm

          …I want to be vicious sea snake…what about a feathered shape shifter with golden eyes?

          • Tat Loo (CV) 1.1.3.1.1
            26 October 2013 at 4:04 pm

            Jackie Chan snake style – for inspiration 😎

            • Chooky 1.1.3.1.1.1
              26 October 2013 at 4:38 pm

              Thanx Tat Loo CV

              Wow Yes!…fantastic dancing!….if only one could dance like that!

              I think feathered serpents are a symbol in Aztec, Egyptian, Gnostic and Chinese Asian mythology…just looked it up before ( after I said I wanted that for my motif …ha ha).

                • Chooky …
                  26 October 2013 at 5:40 pm

                  SQUAWK!!!!….that is way too scarey!….i think I will just jump back up on to my perch like good Chooky ……and be quiet and hope that thing doesnt notice me….F..K!

                  Take it away Iprent!!!

                  ( actually that would be a very good battle heraldic to scare the Nacts and friends with…”We are coming to GET you!”….. keep it somewhere safe for further use)

                  • lprent …
                    26 October 2013 at 11:28 pm

                    Umm… possible battle chicken avatars at 48 pixels. Picked off google “battle chicken” Images.





                    etc..

                    • Chooky …
                      27 October 2013 at 8:06 am

                      thanx Iprent for trying….but I think i will just stick with the geometric design when it comes back

                      ….those ones are roosters…mighty chicken man made me laugh though…someone else can take that one

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  26 October 2013 at 7:50 pm

                  Saw that one the other day in Vue galleries (fb) in a render by Barry Marshal (fb).

                  • Chooky …
                    27 October 2013 at 8:09 am

                    DTB…..lovely!….amazing bit of art and spiritual antiquity….makes you wonder where those ancients’ heads were at…..

        • greywarbler 1.1.3.2
          26 October 2013 at 3:47 pm

          Chooky
          I want to be a meercat – cute but also on the lookout – not easy to put one over. Or remembering that youtube of prairie dog fighting snake, hilarious and admirably brave. So think that might be my choice for avatar.

          As for hens – they can peck – ouch, and they are connected with some of the most existential questions we can ask – Why did the chicken cross the road? And Which came first the chicken or the egg? They go alongside – What is the meaning of life? So you’re a heavy hitter chooky. And people like chickens all round the world. And in car chases they love to direct the cars at peaceful village scenes and while they run into fruit carts, the hens rush off squawking. So all-purpose really, essential in many situations.

          Sorry I don’t know what this has to do with Two-term panic and the right wing. Just team building stuff really. We chooks and bush birds have to keep off our perches and do our bit.

          • Chooky 1.1.3.2.1
            26 October 2013 at 4:23 pm

            greywarbler ….Re identity crisis

            …I can see you as a Meercat!..a very nice Meercat too….very wise and on the lookout…If you ever get sick of greywarbler then i think you should become Meercat!

            Thanks for your nice kind words about chookys……I am ok about Chooky….(but not being a silly flighty ‘Nat Chooky’ with a pink biscuit …..and with a confortable perch and pearls and a twinset cardigan…as shown at the beginning of this post )….I am a wild Chook! …..

            (Sometimes people make nasty jokes about chooks eg “silly old Chook” or “running around like a chook with its head cut off!” or Tegels chicken ….then I want shapeshift into a little green snake with a nasty bite …and bite ’em)

            • greywarbler 1.1.3.2.1.1
              27 October 2013 at 11:26 am

              Chooky
              I think you make an excellent choice in that name. Being underestimated can be useful in that you can get right to the action, undetected, and then expose the foolish ones with all the crumbs of information you have pecked. And as I said before everyone talks about chicken, every taste is compared to chicken, a lot of sayings revolve around chicken ‘All your chickens will come home to roost” warnings etc.

              And chooks can fly. Wild chooks can lay their eggs in the most suitable nests, they can perch in trees and watch for any dangers.
              They are not bound by backyard wires and fences.

    • Brett Dale 1.2
      26 October 2013 at 1:16 pm

      Tat Loo:

      What people want and what people get is entirely different.

    • Rhinocrates 1.3
      26 October 2013 at 1:26 pm

      Indeed – a real alternative. It makes Mumblefuck’s bullshit about how Labour needs to move to the “centre” and National votes being worth “twice as much” as votes from the eight hundred thousand who stayed at home look ever more stupid. Someone please take that man away, put him in a nice terracotta pot with good soil next to a mango tree and see to it that he’s watered regularly.

      He should be an old National backbencher waiting to be put out to pasture, along with Gaffe and Thing (and Mallard is simply beneath contempt).

      Here’s hoping for a Labour renewal in 2014 with fresh blood and talent!

      • Chooky 1.3.1
        26 October 2013 at 5:33 pm

        mmmm Rhino….like your icon ! …where did you get it from?

        ….Looks sort of Miro ‘ish’…or traffic light ‘ish’ on a black night after you have been to a party

        • Rhinocrates 1.3.1.1
          26 October 2013 at 9:04 pm

          The icon’s HAL 9000 crossed with Spider Jerusalem (see the comic, Transmetropolitan). The graphic is a bit of crude photoshopping and it’s supposed to indicate that my personality is similar… no I can’t imagine what that would be like either. Cheers.

          • Chooky 1.3.1.1.1
            26 October 2013 at 10:29 pm

            …does it mean “stop!”…. and then…. no maybe “go!”….with a bigger emphasis on the STOP!…..( maybe indicates cautious character?) ….very wise…

    • David H 1.4
      27 October 2013 at 10:24 am

      “Labour/Greens: this is the time to get sharper and play harder. ”

      And Please, Please, Please, no more of those horrendous own goals.

      Tho’ I do hope that David Cunliffe would have had a chat to all, about these things.

      • logie97 1.4.1
        27 October 2013 at 11:15 am

        In the last couple of months, we have had announcements of “under-performing” or invisible NAT mps not seeking reelection in 2014. A steady removal of dead wood. Probably had the hard word put on them by their leader. The Labour Party could/should have been doing this on a regular basis as well. (Despite their undisputed hard work and sound arguments and loyalty to the Greens, it is noticeable that the absence of Sue Bradford, Nandor Tanczos and Keith Locke from parliament has appeared to make the Greens more electable.)

        • Tat Loo (CV) 1.4.1.1
          27 October 2013 at 11:19 am

          +1

          Although as you say let’s not put Bradford, Tanczos and Locke in the same category of “deadwood” like some other MPs.

          • logie97 1.4.1.1.1
            27 October 2013 at 11:31 am

            Of course. I didn’t mean for it to read like that. I should have made a separate comment to make that point. (My apologies Sue, Keith and Nandor)

        • Populuxe1 1.4.1.2
          27 October 2013 at 4:23 pm

          In the case of Bradford, Mana acted like a sacrificial anode, drawing out the unpalatable elements

  2. Sable 2
    26 October 2013 at 11:16 am

    With regards to these rags what can I say:

    “soft, thick and absorbent”

    Well probably not, but still good for the parrot and cats poop tray.

  3. captain hook 3
    26 October 2013 at 11:48 am

    this national government was elected solely on the basis of it being their “TURN”.
    Well they have had their turn and now it is time for them to go.
    and the sooner the better.

  4. QoT 4
    26 October 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Actually written by Armstrong: “The message from Key this week is crystal clear – any changes in the landscape are going to be at his behest, not that of others.”

    Translated: “The message Key’s office sent to me this week is crystal clear – play up the idea that he’s in charge and the Greens are extremists but Colin Craig is a palatable voice of reason.”

    Watkins says “National insiders” are “talking up” Colin Craig for an Auckland seat- he’s “believed good for at least 3 per cent on election night” and O’Sullivan basically says National is looking at gifting Craig a North Shore seat – as does Audrey Young.

    Either National are trying to scare Peters back into line or they’re seriously going with a strategy of moderating the Conservatives’ reputation for them. Which raises an important question:

    Do the National voters of North Shore want to become laughingstocks like their Epsom compatriots?

    • Chooky 4.1
      26 October 2013 at 1:09 pm

      QoT …good points

      I also think the Nats will be working out how to play the Winnie NZF vote…( clever tricks and devious plans….spinning like a mad dog with rabies…. because he is their only hope!)

      eg. Nats will be planning to push candidates standing for NZF who are really dyed in the wool Nats…..but who overtly stand on single issues which are popular with the Left of Centre ….and hence hope to plunder the Left of Centre vote…(.covertly however they will be pushing the right anti Green anti socialist agenda)

      Ultimately it will be up to Winnie which way he goes …because quite frankly there is no NZF without Winnie …..but he will destroy his personal credibility and integrity if he goes with National…that is why I think he is for the Labour/Green coalition’s taking if they dont alienate him

      …That all said I would NOT vote for him this time around if one wants to be sure of a Labour/Green victory outright

      the best place for Winnie is as an optional extra

    • Tim 4.2
      26 October 2013 at 5:40 pm

      Armstrong’s been listening to a guy across the ditch called Tarn Yabbit – everything’s just “crystal clear” to him.
      Christ! why do we even bother listening to these hacks!

    • ak 4.3
      26 October 2013 at 11:36 pm

      Spot on, your majesty. Note also Armstrong’s stress on “just one” poll – the self-fulfilling prophesy of repeated reporting of favorable polls long ago identified by the Natsies as a winning ploy.

      And rarely will you ever see something so base and crude as the employment of a random comment from a nine-year-old for propaganda purposes: “It’s cool on the benefit” plastered prominently on Stuff and many of its lesser organs all day.

      Desperate cretins evacuating themselves with the very same shallow, venal animalism that they inflict such misery on the weak.

      Untidy, unfortunate even; but just a natural excremental by-product of Progression and justice of a most sweet poetic kind.

  5. aerobubble 5
    26 October 2013 at 12:46 pm

    English come up with the reason why CGT was useless, its a tell on how far intelligent people fall I suppose. That because housing was so costly in UK, OZ, and they have a CGT it would be useless here. So let’s pick this to bits, if a CGT irrelevant to housing prices then why bring it up, but worse, what if the analysis is wrong, that our lack of a CGT causes our housing prices to be much higher.
    Oh, wait, I’ve heard something like that before, Garth was on about it, Labour has been, the Greens have, they all say that the CGT increases house prices. So evidence is clear, English is the biggest idiot to be claiming very large highly mature markets like Sydney and London, that rely on a broad deep economy should mean Auckland prices which are backed mostly by a primary exporting country are comparable. But worse, our affordability is up near the top, people just can’t get into ownership.

    But wait, its worse. Turns out that Greenpeace essential did do a far analysis of oil spillage, that their analysis of 10,000 barrels of lmedium crude is realistic, that a Mexico Gulf spill that cannot be easily capped in 14 days is a real scenario. Where ‘The Nation’ did not ask the obvious question of the expert, that she had done her own analysis of medium crude, of the rate of barrels she thinks is likely in a exploration well like the one in the Mexico Gulf. But hey its not like ‘The Nation’ doesn’t look bad when Greenpeace send over someone basically say the oil lobbby is lying.

    Because that’s what English is doing, that’s what the oil industry is doing, when they lie and then call the ordinary questions about risk that arise as being nothing more that scaremongering.

    But then to cap it off, to have Dunne of all people sound off that calling people scaremongers wasn’t a good look. Geez, anyone can tell attacking the messager is pretty much indicative of a failure to address the message because they likely can’t.

    But it gets worse!!!

    Joyce claims victory, he sold them, for less, but he sold them. And the icing! Labour are proven evil scaremongers, as investors implicitly believe Labour will win the next election. Joyce essentially is claiming he thinks Labour will win the next election.

    Surely anyone who watches National can see they have lost their way, desperately blaming the opposition for running the country poorly, having been so strong in government they left it for National to fail to address any of the problems NZ has.

    Oh, what a National farce.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1
      26 October 2013 at 3:06 pm

      English come up with the reason why CGT was useless, its a tell on how far intelligent people fall I suppose. That because housing was so costly in UK, OZ, and they have a CGT it would be useless here.

      Why are house prices so high?
      Because the private banks create unlimited amounts of money and there’s no way for a CGT to correct for that.

      • aerobubble 5.1.1
        31 October 2013 at 11:20 am

        Yes, and guess what, Auckland house prices are supposed to be up there with Sydney and London. WTF. Where’s the value, has Auckland got a regional sharemarket, a finance industry, a backyard of desert mines, no. Its the bald face lie implicit in the housing debate that Auckland housing is somehow so supreme that it can match it with world cities. Its the biggest rigged market in any western democracy. The houses leak, the building materials are overpriced, the builders are underskilled (or gone to OZ), the insurance is naff, a saver for a home doesn’t even have a saving guarantee!!!

  6. Adrian 6
    26 October 2013 at 1:29 pm

    On avatar envy, to quote ” Everybody wants to be Mr Black “.

  7. Rhinocrates 7
    26 October 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Here’s a joke that Russians used to – and probably still tell – about the official media. Pravda, means “Truth” and Isvestia means “News”, so they say: There is no truth in The News and no news in the Truth.

    It’s a pity that we can’t make similar puns about T’ Herald and NBR.

    I’m also reminded of another line – “Never believe anything until it’s been officially denied.” I suppose now it’s a case of “If they’re shaking their pom poms more vigorously, then you know they need to change their underpants.”

    Armstrong is his usual sycophantic self (you know it’s going to take several hours of delicate surgery to remove his tongue from Key’s arse) and Watkins is as dull as ever, but O’Sillyvan does actually have a brain and sometimes it even works when she forgets to deprive it of oxygen, but look at this: “at times absurd accommodations with rump parties”

    Woo! Smell the condescending sense of entitlement there!

    Akshully, I’m kinda missing Hoots – I wish that that monkey would come back and caper for us so that we could have a laugh, as long as he doesn’t get sexist and racist.

  8. JonL 8
    26 October 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Whilst I’d like to believe it possible, there’s still a while to go before any elections. I just hope Labour don’t just say ” Well. looks like we’ll win now” and sit on their arses for the interim! The right have yet to roll out the full force of their dirty tricks brigade, and the bulk of the population are still highly susceptible to flip flopping, without anything firm and positive from “the left”

  9. bad12 9
    26 October 2013 at 3:29 pm

    Is Fran from the National Party NZ Herald on the turps or something, perhaps in Her dotage She just likes to make mischief,

    This in ”s as if a direct quote from Slippery the Prime Minister would be enough to get the likes of the ‘Hairdo’ spitting at the slight against His ego,

    ”I’ve still got options even if i currently have to rely on a few cot cases to the left and right of me to get my team over the line in Parliament”,

    Of course the flecks of spittle may fly from the ‘Hairdo’ after His reading of such ungracious remarks attributed it would seem by Fran O’Sullivan to the PM, on the other hand tho we could probably expect Banks upon having the comment read to Him to simply genuflect, bow deeply, and intone ”yes master” a number of times,

    While Fran is dabbling in the art of mischief making in today’s version of the National Party news that doddering old man Armstrong is positively diving head first into the pool of the absurd, i have a suspicion that He hasn’t been long ago put out to pasture coz he holds shares in the company that prints His appalling rubbish,

    ‘The Prime Minister came out all guns blazing over sky city’, Lolz with the patently false claim that Labour have been making deals with Sky-city and looking every bit the compulsive liar as He produced not a shred of proof, not a name, date, nor place,

    There are not that many people left in this country that would buy a used power station off of the Slippery little Shyster, there’s one hell of a lot less that now believe any of the sniveling trail of lies that regularly leave that ones mouth, bring on November 2014, that’s what i say…

  10. The Pink Postman 10
    26 October 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Good to see David Cunliffe visiting the unemployed this week. At last we have a leader who is in touch with working people .Now that he has started to visit the unemployed I’m hoping he will make it a regular thing to visit the unemployed ,the beneficiaries , and the under paid working poor .These are the people that should and will vote Labour we approach them with good Socialist , and Social Democratic policies. Well done David please carry on with these visits ,that’s where the votes are .They are the ones who did not vote last time .If we get those people out to vote look out ,then good bye you slimy Tories,

    • Tat Loo (CV) 10.1
      26 October 2013 at 4:00 pm

      Where did he visit TPP?

    • Timothy Holmes 10.2
      27 October 2013 at 4:55 am

      To be fair, “the unemployed” are not “working people”. And as I’m unemployed and in Australia, without any benefits, I think I can make that distinction

      • QoT 10.2.1
        27 October 2013 at 6:43 pm

        I don’t think that kind of semantic division is helpful, especially in a time of high unemployment. It buys into the right’s idea that everyone in work is a Deserving Person and everyone who’s out of work is a Lazy Bludger – when the difference between working and being unemployed is a very, very fine one for many working-class NZers.

        • Macro 10.2.1.1
          27 October 2013 at 7:46 pm

          True… I know of one young person who works very, very, hard – every day, every day of the year and is unemployed by the traditional definition. She has not slacked once – I know – because when she is not in Auckland rehearsing or performing or volunteering her time for causes for social change, she lives with me. She has achieved much and demands little, were it not for the fact that she has a support base, her productive capacity would be much reduced. I know of a number of young people like her, existing on non-jobs, in order to work in the area they find the most creative and challenging. A universal income would greatly assist and remove this stigma of “Bludger”

          • Chooky 10.2.1.1.1
            27 October 2013 at 8:06 pm

            +100,000% Macro……it is a crime what this government is doing to some young people!!!…..

            …and then you see the shenanigans of Auckalnd

  11. Anne 11
    26 October 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Just wanna see what my gravatar looks like.

  12. finbar 12
    26 October 2013 at 5:32 pm

    The Nats are heading for a kicking,and they know it.They cry the market is in their favour, as they cover the dismal failure of selling our assets to a investor greed, that finds favour elsewhere for the Kiwi investor.They are against the wall and may it continue.

  13. Tracey 13
    26 October 2013 at 5:35 pm

    If fran says hes fucked he might just be.

  14. North 14
    26 October 2013 at 9:02 pm

    ….guess I gotta be happy with an amalgam of a sheriff’s badge and a medieval torture implement.

  15. Bill 15
    26 October 2013 at 11:02 pm

    So that graphic – the bird’s got a head. Why does the bird have a head?

    • lprent 15.1
      26 October 2013 at 11:17 pm

      Ah yes – you are anticipating. This is the panic just before it lost the head, rather than the reflexive neurological activity performed by rote afterwards. In other words for the bird to feel panic, it must still have a head.

      After the beheading, we’d subsequently expect the ritual disembowelment as a faction grabs the National party and hollows out a place to get stuffed.

      • Bill 15.1.1
        27 October 2013 at 2:34 pm

        “In other words for the bird to feel panic, it must still have a head.”

        That would be assuming that the creature referred to via the image, does indeed have its brains in its head and not somewhere else… like up its arse for example.

      • Chooky 15.1.2
        27 October 2013 at 7:17 pm

        Lprent ..I dont think you should be doing this to chooks!…..who runs Nact?…not girl chookies or birds ……but boy rats and ferrets and stoats and weasels!

        ….sexism?

      • Chooky 15.1.3
        28 October 2013 at 8:27 am

        @ Lprent ..re chooky bird losing its head , panicking, ritual disembowelment and then getting stuffed ..

        Vegans and vegetarians would not like this sort of talk.

        ….and nor do feminists!

        …especailly when that feminist is me and my motif is a Chooky.!….and I have never voted National in my life and nor do i think women run the National Party….

        • lprent 15.1.3.1
          28 October 2013 at 9:04 am

          Yeah, but I spent a lot of time on farms in my youth and never really got into the sensitivity thing when it came to animals (including small children and most adults). I just describe things as I see them.

          In the case of all animals (including humans) I also accurately describe their behaviour as I see it. This sense of accurate reality prevents me from getting too judgemental. So when other people talk about a person’s peaceful death, as an ex-medic I’m all too aware of the nappy required for the release of sphincters on death. And chickens do what chickens do… So do political parties. Accuracy is a continual defence against delusion…

          For instance in the case of children, I usually rename them as “Horrible X” where X is the number at which their proud parents presented them to me for my inspection through the generations. That is why horrible 2a (who I was around with yesterday) is a lovely animal who may eventually be interesting to irritate.

    • Olwyn 15.2
      27 October 2013 at 12:01 am

      You have to win the prize for the coolest little icon Bill- sagely smiling, rolling its eyes with an eyebrow raised. And a nice colour too. 🙂

      • Bill 15.2.1
        27 October 2013 at 2:37 pm

        heh. And there was me reckoning it was a particularly washed out shade of green. And wearing upside down glasses to boot. But I can go with ‘sage’ 😉

  16. ScottGN 16
    27 October 2013 at 8:23 am

    Interesting that the Herald online is still showing zero comments in response to Armstrong’s column. He usually gets quite a few.

  17. cathy 17
    27 October 2013 at 8:45 am

    I am a green ,but have say i think it was the labour leadership election that has turned the tide i agree it time to up the preassure. if labour/greens can just get a few of those 800 thousand to vote then the nail will really be hit home .haft a percent the quater here there goners, next election i want help door knocking in south auckland and team up with some labour activists

  18. Craig 18
    27 October 2013 at 11:42 am

    I see the Conservative Party is currently being talked up as National’s little helper. Oh really? Some questions come to mind about this marriage of Con-venience…

    1. Colin Craig has never held public office

    2. The Cons oppose asset sales, the core of National’s fiscal policy

    3. Where is all the money for this endless plethora of binding referenda going to come from?

    4. Remember 1996? What if the Cons scare social liberal voters away from the Nats?

    5. Given the Cons’ ludicrous anti-Treaty stance, could they work with the Maori Party?

    6. Are NZF and the Cons actually after the same voter share? Might they cancel each other out?

    7. Shouldn’t someone do a thorough background check of Con candidate backgrounds?

    8. Can Colin Craig actually win a constituency?

    • Rhinocrates 18.1
      27 October 2013 at 4:49 pm

      A few observations…

      1. When has that stopped anyone from thinking that they’re entitled to the heated rear seat of a BMW or idiots from voting for them? See the whole Maori Party for evidence. Every one of them is totally inadequate and yet they got votes and nice warm seats for their flabby arses.

      2. They’ll oppose it right up until the moment that they’re paid not to. They’ll say that there are “special circumstances” or “Once all the facts are in…”

      3. Talk about binding referenda is free.

      4. 1996? A goldfish can’t even remember the last ten seconds.

      5. See 2.

      6. Apparently. With good luck, they’ll drag each other below the 5% threshold.

      7. Yes, but that would involve work.

      8. Probably not, but maybe. The worthy burghers of Epsom are now people everyone points at and giggles about, but maybe Craig’s locals are also inbred enough to be playing banjoes…

      • KJT 18.1.1
        29 October 2013 at 8:03 am

        Well. They are right about binding referenda.

        Why should 120 people in Parliament be able to dictate to the rest of us.

        It is no accident that Switzerland is one of the most stable and prosperous societies on earth, despite being home to a least 4 distinct ethnic groups, and despite being in the centre of, historically, constantly warring neighbours.

        Don’t like the rest of their policies however.

        And shame that National has kept the threshold that allows an electorate seat to drag in a non-proportional number of MP’s in tail.

        • Craig Y 18.1.1.1
          29 October 2013 at 4:07 pm

          Ah- that would be the Switzerland in which Zurich provides state-managed heroin to licensed addicts, allows assisted suicide in the Dignitas facility, bans mosques because of skyline “visual infringement”, etc…all because of binding referenda! One wonders what social conservatives would say if they came across all that fine print?

          • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1
            29 October 2013 at 5:16 pm

            And the fact that “banning mosques:Visual infringement” is a bit of a “chicken:egg” situation is exactly why I’m a bit wary of binding referenda, with the Californian experience as a sweetener.

            • KJT 18.1.1.1.1.1
              29 October 2013 at 5:43 pm

              They don’t actually. They banned minarets and muezzins.

              Same as we ban church steeples which don’t fit within planning rules and church bells at 6 am.

              I don’t think most New Zealanders would be happy with amplified prayers you can hear over the whole province at 6am either.

              That you, personally, don’t agree with some democratic decisions is not an argument against democracy.

              The fact is our representative democracy (an oxymoron) makes stupid ill thought out, or entirely self serving and antisocial decisions, constantly.

              Why allow voting at all. You can just be our, hopefully, benevolent dictator.

  19. Craig 19
    29 October 2013 at 8:58 am

    1. Yes, but Colin Craig has never held public office and has lost twice beforehand, once as Auckland Mayoral candidate, and then again as Rodney electoral candidate.

    2. What I’m trying to say is that the Cons oppose *both* asset sales *and* the Labour/Green capital gains tax. What * is * their fiscal management policy, exactly?

    3. Yep, but referenda themselves aren’t. They cost about $9m a pop.

    4. In 1996, what happened was that the Christian Coalition were exposed as a pack of weirdo wingnuts and dragged National and ACT down with them. Incentive to do some digging in order that history repeats itself, je pense.

    5. See 2. And if they’re after Winston’s older voters, they oppose asset sales.

    6. Yes, I hope so too. I’d like to see it happen so that Labour and the Greens can have a coalition and National is left with no-one on the centre-right to cuddle up to.

    7. Yes, and I intend to do it.

    8. Don’t forget, at least Epsom had the good taste to slash Banks’ majority down to two thousand. One wonders how we can insure that the new constituency is not on the North Shore.