US election thread

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1. Jono 1

   5 November 2008 at 3:29 pm

   So what, if any, effect will an Obama win have on our election? WIll it be time for a change, or a victory for progressive politics?
2. Vinsin 2

   5 November 2008 at 3:34 pm

   I think Obama sets up Labour to govern. I think it might actually have a very positive effect for the left.
3. Killinginthenameof 3

   5 November 2008 at 3:35 pm

   “Jono
   So what, if any, effect will an Obama win have on our election? WIll it be time for a change, or a victory for progressive politics?”

   It will be spun both ways, but personally I think the left in NZ gives the right a far too freer ride over Iraq ect
4. Steve Pierson 4

   5 November 2008 at 3:39 pm

   Jono. Well, I can’t see the tories riding on Obama’s wave after English’s comments.
5. Felix 5

   5 November 2008 at 3:42 pm

   Kitno, true dat.

   How many of National’s “soft” supporters would be sickened to their stomachs if they heard Key baying for blood in the house?
6. Jono 6

   5 November 2008 at 3:45 pm

   I wonder if the sense of giddiness from the normally stoic NZ polity, will translate into an “everything’s gonna be ok” vibe on saturday…especially when you couple it with falling gas prices and interest rates. The buzz has motivated me enough to get out and deliver material for the local Labour candidate regardless of him pushing the proverbial up-hill in our very blue electorate.
7. Killinginthenameof 7

   5 November 2008 at 3:46 pm

   On RealClearPolitics
   “Obama/Biden 50% (195) McCain/Palin 49% (90)”

   has any one else been bemused for the last few weeks hearing updates on the news and from kiwibloggers ect excited by Mccain picking up a few more percent here and there, when its really all about the electrol college votes.

   (in side news: firefox spell checking wants to change kiwibloggers to pettifoggers)
8. Ben R 8

   5 November 2008 at 3:49 pm

   Winston was getting on pretty well with McCain in that meeting before the reporter interrupted? Presumably McCain would be a better bet for a free trade agreement? Otherwise will probably make little difference. Obama is heading for a landslide currently.

   Meanwhile, some reports of Black Panther voter intimidation in Philidelphia & a guy telling a reporter he voted twice for Obama (hopefully that’s not too widespread).

   http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/11/04/voter-asks-cnn-why-they-havent-reported-black-panthers-philly
9. Vinsin 9

   5 November 2008 at 3:57 pm

   killing, i’ve been incredibly bemused. it’s not even a race, and hasn’t been for six months, it was always going to be obama, but by how much.

   BBC
   obama 200
   mccain 124 : i believe he just took out texas – surprised.

   Jono, i think you might have a point, “everything’s gonna be ok’ and i’m pretty sure it’s going to translate into, ‘you know what Labour’s done well, i’ll give them another go.’
10. Felix 10

    5 November 2008 at 4:00 pm

    “pettifoggers” must be the U.S. spelling. With International English settings it wants to change it to “cunts”.
11. Ben R 11

    5 November 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Obama has won Ohio so we might as well call it. How big a mistake was it for McCain to pick Palin as his running mate? I suspect Obama would have still won, but maybe not by quite so much.
12. randal 12

    5 November 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Hey Felix…have you seen farrar/feeder dripping venom over in twiedmee onions
    he is really packing a sad!
    hahahaha!
13. DeeDub 13

    5 November 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I reckon it’ll be Obama 371 to McCain 167.
14. Vinsin 14

    5 November 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Ben R – i think McCain could’ve picked anyone and still be mauled by obama – the guy killed the clinton’s, i mean come on. I think even another candidate entirely would’ve had problems, it’s basically been the Democrats election to lose since the primaries.
15. BeShakey 15

    5 November 2008 at 4:30 pm

    “(in side news: firefox spell checking wants to change kiwibloggers to pettifoggers)”

    Outlook always trys to correct my Obama to Osama!
16. Killinginthenameof 16

    5 November 2008 at 4:31 pm

    I first read about Obama in a 2005 time magazine article, talking about a young senator on the rides who might one day become president, who would have thought it would happen so soon.
17. Ben R 17

    5 November 2008 at 4:36 pm

    “I first read about Obama in a 2005 time magazine article, talking about a young senator on the rides who might one day become president, who would have thought it would happen so soon.”

    Yeah, Hillary Clinton certainly wasn’t expecting it!

    Vinsin, that’s true. The financial crisis also played into his hands just when the Republicans were gaining momentum with their convention.
18. Ari 18

    5 November 2008 at 4:45 pm

    So what, if any, effect will an Obama win have on our election? WIll it be time for a change, or a victory for progressive politics?

    I don’t think one can really call regressive policies “change”, so yeah- if we’re gonna channel any of Obama’s magic, it’ll be either a broadly progressive win with a Labour coalition, or a chance for some genuine change with the Greens actually picking up few more seats like some of the polls suggested.

    Anyway, you can pretty much call it for Obama because he has 202 electorate votes already, and enough safe states to get through. Rocking! 🙂 It also looks like the Democrats will extend their senate majority, allowing them to ditch Lieberman. (thankyou America! :P)
19. Felix 19

    5 November 2008 at 4:46 pm

    I can’t bring myself to go there randal, it’s just too sad. It’s like reading youtube comments.
20. Vinsin 20

    5 November 2008 at 5:07 pm

    My god it looks like Obama’s going to take out Virginia and Florida. A couple of minutes and it’s over, California, Washington, and Oregon are coming in now.
21. Vinsin 21

    5 November 2008 at 5:09 pm

    OK, done. How great for America.
22. randal 22

    5 November 2008 at 5:11 pm

    Felix its worse than that
    full of people with limited vocabulary and low iq’s
    dangerous
    anyway
    news just in
    official
    Obama has more than 270 votes in the electoral college
    congrats to him
23. Ben R 23

    5 November 2008 at 5:14 pm

    CNN now projecting Obama win, just a matter of time now till McCain concedes I guess.
24. jo zinny 24

    5 November 2008 at 5:16 pm

    The purge is ON..

    I just had Eric Kreefeld @ TPM tell of the Shays roll in New England. House republican-free is a big call there.

    Others are spelling one big time YOUTH vote for the Dems. Time they were heard.. and how!
25. Lew 25

    5 November 2008 at 5:20 pm

    I foresee liberal use of the word `romp’ in the short to mid term.

    L
26. Killinginthenameof 26

    5 November 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Interesting see the fall out on kiwiblog. Reality has come home to roost some are claiming its democracies fault, most are keeping quiet. Its kind of strange that they claim to be so sure on something that has such a soild outcome, and such a predictable out come, right to the death. (its one thing to say you still support Mccain in the face of such a result, but completely another to say hes going to win)
27. Ianmac 27

    5 November 2008 at 5:24 pm

    Key has sent congratulations to Obama. Curious that he was so quick off the mark? A bit obsequious? Or does he want to quell the “non-story” about Bills tape? Perhaps it is a bigger worry than he lets on?
28. Vinsin 28

    5 November 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Ianmac, how do you know this?
29. bobo 29

    5 November 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Maybe Key put congratulations on both Obama’s and Mccain’s answer machines before the polls closed…
30. Chris G 30

    5 November 2008 at 5:28 pm

    What I find strange coming from my neck of the woods, is the amount of people who rave about Obama and then say they are voting for Johnny Friendly Key.

    Different sides of the political spectrum mean anything? Apparently not.

    Clearly a huge number of votes are cast on ‘fresh’ rhetoric and and a new face. In saying that I obviously support Obamas Genuine vision for a better U.S (Hence world? arguably) In case there were any suggestion I was saying he was a hollow man like Key.
31. Killinginthenameof 31

    5 November 2008 at 5:29 pm

    McCain conceeds!!
32. bobo 32

    5 November 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Prediction that Hillary Clinton might be secretary of state?
33. jo zinny 33

    5 November 2008 at 5:32 pm

    A thought for Senator McCain please..

    For the grace of his contention and bringing President-Elect Obama’s merits to the fore.
34. Ben R 34

    5 November 2008 at 5:33 pm

    “Different sides of the political spectrum mean anything? Apparently not.”

    The spectrum in the US is a bit different to here though, the Democrat’s are pretty centrist.
35. Felix 35

    5 November 2008 at 5:39 pm

    McCain’s grace in defeat is to be commended.

    Let’s see if Key can match it on Saturday night.
36. Chris G 36

    5 November 2008 at 5:41 pm

    Ben R,

    Depends how you judge the party. Because each party is such a big conglomerate of political ideas its hard to average the Dems and call them centrist. Im not entirely disagreeing with you, but if you look at Senators like Russ Feingold, congressman Dennis Kucinich, congresswoman Barbara Lee… They are all Dems who are Very left wing.

    I think the Dems over there just put out a centrist type front because of the enormous conservative christian bloc of voters, among other reasons.

    Think of it this way, Obama would not run for National. Fact.
37. Vinsin 37

    5 November 2008 at 5:41 pm

    A very good concession speech by McCain, it’s a shame his campaign spent so much time trying to label Obama as a terrorist.

    Chris G, very good point.

    Can’t wait for Obama’s speech. I can already feel the goosebumps on my skin.
38. Chris G 38

    5 November 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Olbermann for Press Secretary!! Or Jon Stewart to pull a comedy curveball
39. Chris G 39

    5 November 2008 at 5:43 pm

    sorry double post admins.. delete this one if you so wish
40. jo zinny 40

    5 November 2008 at 5:48 pm

    anybody get Al Franken in Minnesota — now that is a laugh.. over incumbent Coleman..

    I hope.. the count’s not complete but 12 percent up on the latest exits looks pretty solid.
41. Killinginthenameof 41

    5 November 2008 at 5:50 pm

    Extremely good speech, pity about the booing, very strong statement from Hillary, and moving to see Rev Jesse Jackon crying in the crowd.
42. Rex Widerstrom 42

    5 November 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Chris G asks:

    Different sides of the political spectrum mean anything? Apparently not.

    Clearly a huge number of votes are cast on ‘fresh’ rhetoric and and a new face.

    Yep, that should tell you something… that people have had a gutsful of being lied to and told what to do by incumbents overwhelmed by hubris, prepared to do anything to retain power (including embrace a crook) and who’ve started to believe their own spin. Again… because it’s by no means the first time that feeling has been abroad in the electorate.

    So they’ll vote for anyone who doesn’t represent the status quo and ignore the differences in policy, the holes in the rhetoric, the risk of a secret agenda, the lack of experience and everything else that might be wrong with the challenger. The same thing happened in 1984.

    In any election where there’s been a change of government – at least those I’ve been alive to witness – the primary motivation has been to punish out-of-touch incumbents. In go the new lot, promising to listen… and then they morph into the kind of politician they claimed to despise.

    We deserve better, and the dissonance between our beliefs and our actions is one manifestation of our discontent. It’s to be hoped that one day, politicians will emerge who understand.
43. forgetaboutthelastone 43

    5 November 2008 at 5:57 pm

    while the latest secret tape did seem a bit of a fizzer there for a bit – turns out the timing was absolutely impeccable – what with the MSM telling us that nz’ers are more interested in the american election.
44. Vinsin 44

    5 November 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Wow, did anyone see Gore Vidal on BBC? Talk about cringeworthy.
45. ak 45

    5 November 2008 at 5:59 pm

    Thank God for that. Rejoice, world. Sanity reigns and progress resumes.

    And locally, crucially, another Orewa One from the NACT is now impossible. Final threat gone.

    So they want change? Time for Helen to announce Deputy PM Sharples.
46. r0b 46

    5 November 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Yep, that should tell you something that people have had a gutsful of being lied to and told what to do by incumbents overwhelmed by hubris

    Oh Rex settle down. Perhaps the American people had just had a gutsful of 8 years of breathtaking incompetence, an unnecessary war, and a self-inflicted economic catastrophe. Just perhaps eh?

    In the mean time, rejoice. Obama might not mean much actual change in domestic policy for America, but the sheer symbolic impact of this moment, and the massive renunciation of the Bush / conservative agenda, they are hugely significant by any measure.
47. Chris G 47

    5 November 2008 at 6:23 pm

    Rex,

    And the answer to this political pendulum you alude to is?

    I dont think thats a just system. People should look historically a bit more in terms of both recent history ie. How have the last 9 years really been? and long term ie. What has history shown us regarding the performance of the political parties in NZ.

    To be honest I think you’ve bought in to a bit of anti-government spin eg. “determined to retain power”
    I think that line has been spun to death and is a load of crap. Of course any government wants to retain power. At the end of the day they do what they believe is right regarding law making and why would they want another side of the political spectrum to undo anything they have achieved.

    As far as I’m concerned, thats a natural feeling. So I’ve never bought that ‘desperation’ stuff. That suggests that politicians in power have become corrupted so and simply wish to stay there for no other reasons. If thats the case then we elected a bunch of idiots, Whos to blame for that????
48. Felix 48

    5 November 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Rex,

    This one’s not about Winston.
49. Vinsin 49

    5 November 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Tv3 is about to run the Bill English tapes, right after the Obama speech. My god Labour’s latest ad just ran in the adverts – whoever thought of that is a genius. Jesus today is a great day for the left. I think this is basically the knock out punch to any right-wing National/Act/UNF government. I’m not saying Labour are going to have a majority but they’ve killed any chance of a right-wing government.
    Duncan Garner – about bloody time – put the screws on Key and English – the rhetoric of National has finally started to crack. I thought i’d leave with this pleasant quote by Key on the tapes.

    “I’m not going to comment and i’m not going to get in the mud and roll around with a pig. I’ll leave the muck racking to Labour.”

    Anyone notice the irony of that statement.
50. Brett Dale 50

    5 November 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Wow.

    What a great day for the world, people dancing in the streets in harlem, outside the white house, people crying in churches, this will mean so much to the American people.
51. forgetaboutthelastone 51

    5 November 2008 at 6:58 pm

    i heard: “I’m not going to comment and i’m not going to get in the mud and roll around…” and i thought – here comes the usual accusations of dirty tricks, then i heard “with a pig”…

    i raised an eyebrow…

    “who’s the pig?”…

    i lol’d.
52. Felix 52

    5 November 2008 at 7:01 pm

    Brett, what a contrast to the angry crowds after Bush won in 2004. Great day.
53. higherstandard 53

    5 November 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Great speeches from McCain and Obama – I wonder if we’ll get the same from Helen and John on Saturday night …… I’m not holding my breath.
54. higherstandard 54

    5 November 2008 at 7:04 pm

    Felix damn your eyes – I’ve reported your comment to Winnie – you should know that everything’s always about Winston.
55. Bill 55

    5 November 2008 at 7:04 pm

    The dot com bubble. The housing bubble.

    Time now for the Obama bubble?

    When it bursts due to his failure to deliver on people’s expectations, what shape does the fallout take? A resurgent democracy as people hit the streets demanding their expectations get realised?

    I hope so. We’ll see in the fullness of time I guess.
56. randal 56

    5 November 2008 at 7:06 pm

    you right there HS
    shonkey will spit the dummy big time
    maybe even have a fit of apoplexy?
    baited breath
57. appleboy 57

    5 November 2008 at 7:07 pm

    so…the right wingers have ben kicked out in Britain, Australia and now the USA…these parties are those directly responsible for the greed and ideology that has created this finanacial meltdown. NZ needs to do the same on Saturday with this bunch of Nats – who are after all Brash in Drag.
58. Ben R 58

    5 November 2008 at 7:10 pm

    “Thank God for that. Rejoice, world. Sanity reigns and progress resumes.

    And locally, crucially, another Orewa One from the NACT is now impossible. Final threat gone.”

    Why is it impossible?
59. Ben R 59

    5 November 2008 at 7:15 pm

    “these parties are those directly responsible for the greed and ideology that has created this finanacial meltdown.”

    Appleboy, it was Bill Clinton’s appointmentees, Robert Rubin & Larry Summers who along with Greenspan vehemently opposed regulating the derivatives market.

    “NZ needs to do the same on Saturday with this bunch of Nats – who are after all Brash in Drag.”

    Hardly, Brash actually had some sensible ideas like dismantling the Maori seats under MMP (they should be retained under an First Past the Post system). His economic policies probably placed too much faith on free markets though.
60. Daffodil Gal 60

    5 November 2008 at 8:06 pm

    OBAMA 04112008

    Tonight I am proud to be a citizen of the world.

    On Saturday, I might not be.
61. randal 61

    5 November 2008 at 8:31 pm

    who is going to marks sayingsberry’s xmas party?
62. Brett Dale 62

    5 November 2008 at 8:39 pm

    Felix:

    Thats what you get when a great man wins over a guy who stole two elections.
63. randal 63

    5 November 2008 at 8:46 pm

    dont take it personally guys
    georgy doing his best
    hell
    100 years ago they would have given him a third term
    hehehehe

    now we just ge reruns of lil bush like some psychodrama
    and lettermans ruthless persistent exposes
    to sort of somehow slaciously enjoy when the man clearly had a diificult time
    and something he had never expected
    it is to soon to pass judgement
64. Pascal's bookie 64

    5 November 2008 at 9:02 pm

    “Perhaps the American people had just had a gutsful of 8 years of breathtaking incompetence, an unnecessary war, and a self-inflicted economic catastrophe.”

    Let’s not forget the torture, the illegal telephone surveillance, the war profiteering, and the continuous labeling of close to 50% of the nation as traitors.

    This could be as big a seachange as the Reagan revolution. The GOP has got a lot of soul searching to do. They ran the same fear based campaign that has worked for them for the last 20 plus years and the US people rejected it thoroughly. They painted Obama as a socialist, anti Christian, anti white, possibly muslim, definitely marxist scary ooga booga boogie man from the Chicago school of radical shit kickers. He then kicked their asses without breaking a sweat.

    I think the GOP will become more extreme in the short term, blaming everything from Bush being ‘not a true conservative’ to the lieberal media. Thankfully the results weren’t close enough to try and claim fraud. It’s going to take them a long time to accept that the American public has seen what the GOP brand of conservatism is in practice, and decided that it just sux. They are better than that.

    McCain gave nice speech, but I would like to see him, sometime in the next few days, offer more. He needs to dial down some of the fear he has been building up. Obama does not pall around with terrorists. He is not a marxist. He will not surrender to evil. McCain needs to reduce the threat posed to his President by the campaign he ran. As does Palin. One speech is not enough in my book.
65. T-Rex 65

    6 November 2008 at 12:07 am

    Barock me, Obamadaeus.

    Good on you America
66. T-Rex 66

    6 November 2008 at 12:25 am

    To be honest, if Key wins I would commend Clark for being civil, but also totally understand if she says something along the lines of: “Thankyou to the NZ public for giving me the opportunity to lead this country for the last 9 years, I’m proud of what we’ve acheived together. I truly hope I am wrong about what Nationals victory means for NZ over the next decade, but I cannot help but feel deeply sad at this turn of events. We were doing so well, and I think that while our future remains bright, it has become somewhat less bright than it could be – especially for those already struggling the most”.

    What she won’t say, but probably reasonably could, is “Sadly, 45% of New Zealanders proved today that they’re a little more stupid than would be nice”.

    Finally, for double 08wire hattip points, she should finish with “Goodbye to blue sky”.
67. travellerev 67

    6 November 2008 at 9:27 am

    Ok, so I had to let it sink in but something stinks with regards to the US elections.

    First off though chapeau for the people of America and their courage to make history and vote in a black guy. Awesome. Absolutely gobsmackingly awesome.

    So what is it that stinks about the US election.

    Something stinks because the wrong people financed Obama?

    I’m sure millions and millions of dollars poured in from people craving change, and end to war, the need to break the white hegemony but this was not what got the Campaign started. Bankers money did and kept it going too.
    Wall street favoured Obama.

    The banksters and let’s not forget warmongering Zbigniew Brzezinski, Obama’s puppet master have plans with their “boy”.

    In fact a women closely connected to the subprime crisis was Obama’s finance director is a failed subprime bankster. This is what blogger porcupine rim has to say about it. In fact Obama had many subprime banksters as advisors. Part of his team is linked to the Merrill Lynch collapse for example. (Hmm, perhaps Obama and John Key have something in common after all)

    Now why would arrogant white rich male ruled Wall street want to finance a black guy with a Muslim stepfather ?

    (I have had many Muslim friends and I personally don’t give a toss what someone believes in and think that an honest Muslim is by far the best choice if you compare it with Bush’s creepy Christianity but we are talking super rich middle aged white guys OK. In fact they are the same guys who backed Bush for two elections.)

    Doesn’t it sound strange to you that those same scheisters who made tons of money out of the subprime crisis and the speculative derivatives trade, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and who are responsible for the collapse of our financial system would pour in money in a campaign for a guy whose credentials include helping poor blacks and whom the people hope will take back their country for them?

    See, something is just not quit right here. These guys are riding a massive very angry tiger.

    Bush, Cheney both deeply involved in the banking and oil world are deeply despised in the whole world, everybody is sick and tired of the wars and everybody is petrified about the economy and is eyeing the central bankers rip off and most Americans are furious about that.
    So why aide the man who is most likely to try and put a stop on that?

    Here is my take on it. These guys have ruled behind the scenes for the last thirty something years with a technique so adequately described by Naomi Klein in her book the shock doctrine the rise of disaster capitalism.

    This technique is very simple: Cause a massive emotional (911), financial(subprime) or social(New Orleans) shock and use it to gain more control over the population.

    Now whether you believe that for example the events of 911 were staged or not they were used to push true some of the most brutal and freedom limiting laws in the history like the patriot act (a document of massive proportions prepared well before the events of 911 and pushed through in hours without politicians had a chance to read it properly) being just a first in the series.
    Two wars were started in it’s aftermath and an investigation into Daddy Bush and a discrepancy of 2.3 trillion dollars in the Pentagon budget was wiped under the carpet.

    These things are not forgotten by the people and people want their lives back and they voted for Obama because he promises change. But what do the masters of the universe want?

    The late George Carlin said it so brilliantly; “they want more for themselves and less for the rest of us.”

    I don’t claim to know why they wanted Obama in that would be a conspiracy theory but I don know one thing: Either Obama is the best actor we’ve seen in a long time and he’ll continue to deliver more of the same. more war, more financial bail outs, more tax cuts or he could be the next big shock for the American people in fact it could be a huge shock for all of us.

    Perhaps he will be the target of a terrorist attack or an assassination from white supremacists causing a civil war forcing the government to declare martial law.

    400 FEMA camps and 1000ths of US battle hardened soldiers trained for riot control tell me it could be a biggie and it sure smells like a swamp to me.
68. bill brown 68

    6 November 2008 at 12:54 pm

    No, he’s not a bit like Obama
69. jo zinny 69

    6 November 2008 at 3:27 pm

    hi all,

    thought you’d maybe like know why Shays was the one to go as indicated above. He was the republican behind bill HR 6694. This was the so-called “seller pays” bill, in which no fee and nothing down 100 percent (and more) mortgages were enabled.. and copied a lot of places around the ‘western banking/financing’ world. And brought so much strife when mortgagees couldn’t or wouldn’t continue repayments as their homes and property values headed $outh..

    maybe interesting is how Jim Himes, former Goldman Sachs veep, replaces shays for the Democrats.
70. jo zinny 70

    6 November 2008 at 3:43 pm

    updating the Minnesota count,

    A recount loomed in the Minnesota race, where Senator Norm Coleman led his Democratic challenger, the comedian-turned-politician Al Franken, by fewer than 600 votes out of nearly 3 million cast.

    Did that one jump around some, Coleman reversing exits at one stage then biting his gums as a rechase set in..
71. bobo 71

    6 November 2008 at 5:48 pm

    Was Obama reading his victory speech off an autocue ? Just noticed how when he looked left and right it was at a fixed point not like he was scanning the crowd. Do any politicians do speeches from memory anymore or they all died out? I’m nit picking I know was just curious..
72. travellerev 72

    7 November 2008 at 7:02 am

    Bill Brown,

    If you are referring to my remark about Obama and John Key sharing something I was referring to the collapse of Merrill Lynch.

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