Was John Key telling the truth about the Malaysian Diplomat?

Written By: - Date published: 5:34 pm, July 1st, 2014 - 209 comments
Categories: john key, national - Tags: , ,

This morning in the Herald John Key claimed that New Zealand had demanded the waiving of diplomatic privilege for the Malaysian diplomat charged with breaking and entering and assault with intent to commit sexual violation.  From the article:

A diplomat who escaped prosecution for sexual assault in New Zealand is likely to face serious charges in his home country, Prime Minister John Key says.

The Government last night hauled in the relevant country’s head of mission to make its views clear that the diplomat – who cannot be named – should be held to account.

It was revealed yesterday that the man, aged in his 30s, fled the country a day after being charged with burglary and assault with intent to rape by Wellington police.

…

He had followed a 21-year-old woman to her home in Brooklyn on May 9, when the alleged assault occurred.

Mr Key said the Ministry for Foreign Affairs had formally asked for the diplomat’s home country to waive diplomatic immunity, but it had declined.

“New Zealand’s very strong preference was that he would have been charged. Effectively that sending country stopped us from doing that,” he told reporters.

But elsewhere it is being reported that New Zealand actually helped the diplomat leave the country.

From the Daily Mail:

Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman has confirmed that a military official at the country’s diplomatic mission in New Zealand has been charged with sexual assault and that he returned home last month using diplomatic immunity.

Anifah told reporters Tuesday that a defense ministry panel will investigate the junior official and “stern action will be taken” if he is found guilty.

He said the accused will be sent back to New Zealand “if it is absolutely necessary.” Asked to elaborate, Anifah said he will be extradited if New Zealand requests it or if New Zealand thinks the Malaysian investigation is not being conducted properly.

He says Malaysia was willing to waive diplomatic immunity but decided to take up New Zealand’s offer to invoke diplomatic immunity and bring him back back home.

McCulley’s demanding an audience with the Malaysian Ambassador a month after the offence took place was obviously motivated by political considerations rather than considerations of relationships with Malaysia and appeared calculating in the extreme.

But this new disclosure opens up the Prime Minister to some serious questions. Did New Zealand actually tell Malaysia not to invoke diplomatic immunity? And if it did then why did John Key say otherwise?

Update: TV3 has just reported on the issue and did not make any comment on the suggestion that Malaysia was willing to waive immunity.  What is going on?

Further update:  Following is a screenshot of a statement by McCully.  So Malaysia thought that refusing to waive immunity would be acceptable to New Zealand.  Details of the “informal communications” needs to be released so that we can judge for ourselves what was actually discussed and agreed to.  McCully is probably thinking that standing for the list only is not such a bad idea.

McCully email

209 comments on “Was John Key telling the truth about the Malaysian Diplomat? ”

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  1. Tracey 1
    1 July 2014 at 5:41 pm

    because internal polling found nzers dont like foreigners getting away with raping kiwi women.

    I questioned keys statement this morning and asked for proof he demanded anything.

    h/t self

    • Ronnie Chow 1.1
      1 July 2014 at 6:25 pm

      It’s easy to be cynical. In fact, it’s kind of trendy. Cynicism passes for wisdom.Cynicism doesn’t invent the Internet. Cynicism doesn’t give women the right to vote. Cynicism is a choice—hope is a better choice..

      • Tracey 1.1.1
        1 July 2014 at 6:52 pm

        it is not easy to be cynical. those who think john key is honest find cynicism very hard despite over 100 instances of him misleading them.

        my comment was tongue in cheek.

        now that govt has released docs under oia showing its true position I await their release of information of where the 2600 u20 single mums they crowed about, have gone., like any govt with nothing to hide will do. I hope.

      • Anne 1.1.2
        1 July 2014 at 6:56 pm

        Cynicism is frequently borne out of personal experience Ronnie Chow. When you have witnessed or been the target of political malevolence then you learn to follow the cynical path unless evidence to the contrary is forthcoming.

        In the case of this National government : they have apparently known about this situation for some weeks and I suspect that for political reasons, they hoped to get out of any responsibility for bringing the perpetrator to justice. It suited them to pass the buck back to Malaysia. The victim of the crime would have been their last consideration. But then the story went public and, with an election just around the corner, they suddenly had to change their minds.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1
          1 July 2014 at 7:47 pm

          Bollocks. The government had no practical choice but to honour the Vienna Convention.

          The media narrative is relevant how (other than Sept 20th)?

      • Skottowe 1.1.3
        2 July 2014 at 10:56 pm

        @ Ronnie Chow: what on earth are you talking about? Is this a case of “my leader right or wrong”?

  2. Weepu's beard 2
    1 July 2014 at 5:52 pm

    “There were some vague things. I’ll have to check.”

  3. karol 3
    1 July 2014 at 5:59 pm

    Yes, the question is why?

    I can only come up with TPP – NZ for US wanting to keep Malaysia on side in negotiations with APEC countries.

    • srylands 3.1
      1 July 2014 at 6:24 pm

      You have drawn a twisted conclusion based on Malaysian media reports, translated into English. I suggest you await the facts.

      • karol 3.1.1
        1 July 2014 at 6:31 pm

        Yes. I was just puzzled because there seems to be no reason why NZ would ask diplomatic immunity.

        There’s an update on Stuff:

        The NZ documents, obtained by Fairfax Media under the Official Information Act, show the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wrote to the Malaysian high commission in Wellington asking it to waive diplomatic immunity for Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail.

        The documents also show that the high commission refused to waive immunity and sought to seal the police file on the case.

        The high commission also informed the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs that it had “decided that he should be repatriated to Malaysia as soon as possible”.
        […]
        During the discussion on May 12, “the New Zealand side had offered an alternative for the accused to be brought back to Malaysia.”

        Rizalman and his family returned to Malaysia on May 22, with the agreement of the New Zealand authorities, Anifah said.

        Prime Minister John Key said before a suppression hearing in the case that he wanted Rizalman tried here.

        “We sent a very strong message that we didn’t want him sent home.”

        • Tracey 3.1.1.1
          1 July 2014 at 6:48 pm

          what were the dates on the letters?

            • Tracey 3.1.1.1.1.1
              1 July 2014 at 7:00 pm

              so stuff hasnt linked to the docs it got via OIA?

            • Tracey 3.1.1.1.1.2
              1 July 2014 at 7:16 pm

              10 may 2014 mfat tells malaysia the nz police want to proceed with prosecution.

              21 may 2014 malaysia told mfat it would not waive immunity and offender would be leaving nz the next day.

              no evidence john key was making anything very clear to malaysia as he claims.

              • karol …
                1 July 2014 at 7:37 pm

                On the document to the right of my link above @ 6.55pm, there’s a photo of a letter from MFAT to the Malaysian High Commission informing them of the arrest and asking for them to waive diplomatic immunity.

                I’ll see if I can link to the specific document.

                But no evidence of Key saying anything.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  1 July 2014 at 7:51 pm

                  There’s no value in wasting this kind of energy against an incumbent government. National are open on all eight sides, and this ain’t one of them.

                  • fisiani …
                    1 July 2014 at 8:05 pm

                    This is just an attempted smear against Honest John Key.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      1 July 2014 at 8:10 pm

                      There’s a reason you had to say “Honest” John, and everyone* knows what it is.

                      *apart from Nakiman and David Garrett.

                    • mickysavage …
                      1 July 2014 at 8:34 pm

                      Na fisi. My post carefully presented both sides and asked the question about why there is a difference. If Slater had this there would have been four posts up and claims that the Labour leader had been caught out lying again.

                    • halfcrown …
                      2 July 2014 at 10:50 am

                      ” Honest John Key.”

                      Are you taking the piss?

              • karol …
                1 July 2014 at 8:53 pm

                Washington Post adds this:

                He said that initially Malaysia was willing to waive diplomatic immunity so that he could be tried in New Zealand. “But during discussions on May 12, the New Zealand side offered an alternative for the accused to be brought back to Malaysia,” he said. “It was never our intention to treat the matter lightly.”
                […]
                However, New Zealand officials did not offer any immediate response to Anifah’s claims about a May 12 meeting and deal.

                • mickysavage …
                  1 July 2014 at 9:06 pm

                  Thanks Karol. It always pays to not accept the initial version of events just in case there is something more …

                  The question will be if the further discussion did occur what Key knew about it.

                  • karol …
                    1 July 2014 at 9:20 pm

                    The Stuff report has the bit about a meeting on May 12th.

                    The Malaysian High Commissioner had a meeting in Wellington with the deputy chief of protocol at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and police officers on May 12 to address the matter.

                    Malaysia’s foreign ministry was prepared to waive diplomatic immunity to enable prosecution under New Zealand law to proceed, Anifah said.

                    During the discussion on May 12, “the New Zealand side had offered an alternative for the accused to be brought back to Malaysia.”

                    This report – looks like Malaysian? Adds a bit extra:

                    Anifah said the Malaysian High Commissioner had a meeting with the Deputy Chief of Protocol of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade of New Zealand (MFAT) and New Zealand police officials to address the matter on May 12.

                    “At the same time, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Malaysia was prepared to waive diplomatic immunity of the accused to enable prosecution under New Zealand law against him to proceed.

                    “During the discussion (on May 12), the New Zealand side had offered an alternative for the accused to be brought back to Malaysia. It was never our intention to treat the matter lightly,” he said.

                    Anifah said Mindef had given its assurance and commitment that it would not compromise or conceal any facts on the case, being fully aware that Malaysia’s good name was at stake.

                    • Tracey …
                      2 July 2014 at 8:42 am

                      have mccully, key or mfat denied the malaysian version of the may 12 meeting? If not, it is the only “evidence” in public of what was said there.

                      Maurice williamson never mentioned the victims in his faux mea culpa. Mccully and key have not mentioned the victim of the attempted rape ( not by name of course, but to represent her in this)

                      There is a pattern.

                      This is about diplomatic immunity but only because there was an attempted rape. Mcully doesnt have the balls to truly stand for this woman publicallybecause trade with malaysia is more important than sending a message about treatment of women.

                    • srylands …
                      2 July 2014 at 8:53 am

                      “This is about diplomatic immunity but only because there was an attempted rape. Mcully doesnt have the balls to truly stand for this woman publicallybecause trade with malaysia is more important than sending a message about treatment of women.”

                      That is complete bullshit. The Government did everything it reasonably could to get the guy handed over. You are the one who is playing politics around a rape. You, Tracey, are trying to make political capital out of a woman’s tragedy.

                      These situations are complex. You are trying to find real or imagined inconsistencies in different versions of what happened so you can say “He is lying”. Well there will always be such inconsistencies.

                      Phil Goff will know that this event would have been handled exactly the same under the last Labour Government.

                      So go back to your couch and stop playing politic with rape.

                    • Tracey …
                      2 July 2014 at 9:01 am

                      BS

                      the only evidence on the table about the 12 may meeting is that nz said no dont waive immunity just get him out of the country.

                      That is not standing tough demanding justice for a nz woman. No wonder you cherry pick because this govt wanted it swept under the carpet.

                      I dont care what goff would have done, and if your guess is right, it is another reason to urge his retirement.

      • Tracey 3.1.2
        1 July 2014 at 6:46 pm

        yes we agree.

        cf lius statements translated into english BUT more importantly compare how quickly docs from mfat were released under oia to support govt position yet banks and williamsons letters withheld by govt.

      • dimebag russell 3.1.3
        1 July 2014 at 7:37 pm

        @slylands
        the fact is that john keys cant lie straight in bed.

        • srylands 3.1.3.1
          1 July 2014 at 7:44 pm

          Well you are in a minority on that front. He is liked and trusted by most people.

          You must get to the point where you suffer from cognitive dissonance. How are you going cope if he is still Prime Minister in 2018?

          http://find.ipsos.co.nz/Fairfax-Ipsos/14.02/Poll14.02.18/preferred-pm.html

          • dimebag russell 3.1.3.1.1
            1 July 2014 at 7:49 pm

            @slylands
            are you a doctor or something?
            john keys has been sold like toothpaste or haemarrhoid powder.
            he will be gone on September 20.
            he is an evil spirit who is about to be zapped by the forces of good.

          • Richard 3.1.3.1.2
            1 July 2014 at 7:49 pm

            I agree with you…we should await the facts. Just like Key should have awaited the facts on the Liu donations and not have tried to smear Labour with unfounded gossip.

          • Steve Reeves 3.1.3.1.3
            1 July 2014 at 8:15 pm

            I don’t think that most people would agree that 52% is “most people”.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.3.1.4
            1 July 2014 at 8:54 pm

            He is liked and trusted by most people.

            Ah, the lots of people do this so it must be right logical fallacy beloved of rather stupid RWNJs.

          • framu 3.1.3.1.5
            2 July 2014 at 7:59 am

            ” He is liked and trusted by most people.”

            by those that were A) contacted and B) bothered to reply

            from a poll of 1000 people or so thats nothing like “most people” – not even close

          • Skottowe 3.1.3.1.6
            2 July 2014 at 11:16 pm

            @ Srylands: ” He is liked and trusted by most people.”

            Most people in NZ have never met him; and many of those “most people” pay virtually no attention to politics, beyond what’s shown on the TV news, unless it’s election year. And often not even then. Thus they have no basis on which to have any sort of opinion at all, let alone “like and trust”. The truth is, they rely on the press to tell them what to think about him.

        • srylands 3.1.3.2
          1 July 2014 at 7:47 pm

          and it is “srylands”

          • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.3.2.1
            1 July 2014 at 7:58 pm

            S Rylands, merchant of dogma, callous incompetent, child-slayer. The anti-Midas, picker of flaccid cherries, I wallow in your corpsy gracelessness.

          • bad12 3.1.3.2.2
            1 July 2014 at 8:03 pm

            Have you recovered from your previous tantrum SSLands, and, ‘it” as in you is what we say ”it” is, how many times do you have to be told…

      • Tracey 3.1.4
        2 July 2014 at 3:41 pm

        oops Alice…

        It seems staggering that no heads have rolled over the Malaysian diplomat crisis.

        It would be surprising if Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully and Foreign Affairs and Trade boss John Allen haven’t already offered to fall on their swords.

        Their handling of the response to a Malaysian diplomat being charged with attempted rape is worse than a fiasco, it is a tragedy for the alleged victim.

        Prime Minister John Key has been hung out to dry over his repeated public assurances that the Government did everything in its power to have the diplomat tried in New Zealand.

        The emerging story from Malaysia suggests those assurances fell short of the reality, which was that Malaysia was initially happy to waive diplomatic immunity.

        McCully now concedes that “informal” discussions between New Zealand and Malaysia at the very least left Malaysia with the impression that we were happy to explore other options. These include forgoing a criminal trial in New Zealand for a military trial in Malaysia.

        However, it appears that it took a call from Malaysia’s foreign minister to inform McCully of that fact, which begs the question of why there was not full and frank disclosure from MFAT.

        It all leaves a nasty taste in the mouth that New Zealand officials would have preferred to make the problem disappear, rather than seek justice for the alleged victim of what must have been a terrifying attack.

        In non-diplomatic speak, it smacks of a coverup.

        tracy watkins. stuff.co.nz

        • alwyn 3.1.4.1
          2 July 2014 at 6:26 pm

          It is difficult not to think that MFAT was deliberately trying to screw the Government.
          Mind you, any Department that was happy to employ Cunliffe and Robertson and also to leak like a sieve to Goff is unlikely to observe the rule of “no surprises” when dealing with a National Minister.
          Why can we not have a neutral, apolitical, Public Service?

  4. Dee 4
    1 July 2014 at 6:14 pm

    John Key is useless with Foreign Affairs. He is also useless with women’s rights, hence abysmal treatment of single mothers and now willing to overlook a rape. Well that is nice for the victim.

    • cogito 4.1
      1 July 2014 at 10:15 pm

      Key will always overlook anything/anyone that does not generate a profit. Victims will therefore always be overlooked as they are a cost.

  5. ffloyd 5
    1 July 2014 at 6:23 pm

    Don’t think paddy has caught up with this one. Just had him on doing using keys version. Lol.

    • Weepu's beard 5.1
      1 July 2014 at 6:28 pm

      They’ll all run with John Key’s version because to do otherwise would put their career at risk. It’s been shown John Key and Steven Joyce call media personally when they don’t like what is being reported.

  6. freedom 6
    1 July 2014 at 6:27 pm

    attn: Mickysavage,
    Is this line missing a little something?
    “TV3 has just reported on the issue and did make any comment on the suggestion that Malaysia was willing to waive immunity.”

    just delete this after edit is done

    [Thanks freedom. I missed out a “not”. Now inserted – MS]

  7. One Anonymous Bloke 7
    1 July 2014 at 6:42 pm

    Stop the press.

    The lying Prime Minister may have told the truth. Stand by for further updates and an exclusive interview with the boy who cried “wolf”!

  8. Tracey 8
    1 July 2014 at 6:44 pm

    funny how quickly nz govt dept got out those docs under OIA to prove key and mccullys version.

    cf banks and williamson letters on liu .

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1
      1 July 2014 at 6:54 pm

      Here’s how it went down: the lying Prime Minister contacted elements of the Malaysian government who have given large donations to the National Party.

      Lying Prime Minister: Do me a favour Ibrahim.

      Anonymous Malaysian border official: sure thing codename Goldman.

      Lying Prime Minister: make sure you release your false narrative after my public statement but before the OIA request goes in.

      Anonymous Malaysian border official: why can’t you just be honest about your agenda and murder a few ‘citizens’ to set an example?

      Lying Prime Minister: ‘Citizens’, you crack me up Ibrahim. We good?

      Anonymous Malaysian border official: yep, good to go.

      Colin Craig: this is my recurring dream!

    • srylands 8.2
      1 July 2014 at 7:33 pm

      Yes it is called being in Government. You think that Helen Clark didn’t ruthlessly tilt the playing field in the management of OIA releases? You should park your faux outrage. Are you an Epsom Green Voter? You have that Sauvingy edge to you.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.1
        1 July 2014 at 7:39 pm

        Look everyone: a personal attack on another commenter from a policy maggot with a vested interest.

        Quelle surprise.

      • North 8.2.2
        1 July 2014 at 8:04 pm

        Hey SSLands. Couple of hours ago you were crying that you could tolerate something no more. Intolerant or incompetent or incontinent or something. You’re back in one shitty piece. What goes scurvy dog ? Also, stop stalking Helen you steaming weirdo.

      • framu 8.2.3
        2 July 2014 at 8:04 am

        whats with the fucking attitude?

  9. nadis 9
    1 July 2014 at 6:46 pm

    I think the obvious answer is the simplest. The Malaysian FM is making shite up. The OIA docs say that – unless there is a conspiracy that goes much deeper?

    • mickysavage 9.1
      1 July 2014 at 8:35 pm

      These are the last documents. There would have been all sorts of discussions before then recorded in documents. Wait and see …

  10. Grumpy 10
    1 July 2014 at 7:06 pm

    What a stupid question, of course John Key was telling the truth – as always!

    • dimebag russell 10.1
      1 July 2014 at 9:32 pm

      liar.
      john keys does not lie straight in bed.
      his profession is taking peoples money away from them by sleight of hand.

    • framu 10.2
      2 July 2014 at 8:05 am

      tell that to standard and poors

  11. North 11
    1 July 2014 at 7:18 pm

    The public must have the unvarnished, non-spun truth here – disgust overwhelmed when I saw ShonKey trying pregnantly to pose as Everyman on this one. Brainfade or won’t talk, we’ll know…..

    Update: TVOne News reporting claim that Malyasian Foreign Affairs offered to waive immunity…..big question is when…..?

    We’ll know even better were Dame Edna’s estranged husband, the famed Queenslander and semi-retired diplomat who moonlights as NZ’s MFAT minister, viz. Sir LesMurray PattersonMcCully – were he ‘motivated’ to fall on his ceremonial sword. In East Coast Bays !

    Picture it – “I told the PM’s office…..I acknowledge that under the PM’s excellent OECD leading ‘higher standards’ ‘no surprises’ policy I SHOULD have spoken to the PM directly. That was difficult at the time as you can imagine since the PM was hungrily sucking POTUSANUS in Washington…..but whatever…..(sob)….I am unworthy of the GodKey warrant….”

    Last seen strolling Stanmore Bay beach…..variously reciting ‘fundy’ protestant doctrine and ‘lipssmackingly’ scanning pics of the Rose Garden – NZ Embassy Washington.

    My God – ShonKey-Python-Planet-Land…..

  12. dv 12
    1 July 2014 at 7:30 pm

    Its got to be a bad situation when you have to have documented proof because you can’t trust the Govt.

  13. Paul Grant 13
    1 July 2014 at 7:40 pm

    Dee. I find your comments disgraceful. I very much doubt you would say he overlooked rape to the PM’s face but here you hide behind your keyboard.
    Your hate is palpable. It will be to your own detriment. Get alife

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1
      1 July 2014 at 9:49 pm

      Much better things to do to his face if you ask me.

    • framu 13.2
      2 July 2014 at 8:06 am

      oh i would happily say much worse things to his face

      i dont have a problem with making my feelings known to crooks and liars

  14. philj 14
    1 July 2014 at 8:01 pm

    xox
    McCully looked very uncomfortable and unintelligible on the TV tonight.

  15. ianmac 15
    1 July 2014 at 8:05 pm

    Of course the preliminary discussion could have been as the Malaysian Foreign Minister said. Then in order to sweep the whole story out of sight during Election Year, they formalised the NZ version. Get the ratbag out of the country and out of sight.

    Could both versions be correct?

  16. Once was Pete 16
    1 July 2014 at 8:07 pm

    According to NZH online a few minutes ago, the Govt has released correspondence confirming NZ requested Malaysia drop diplomatic immunity. Apparently Malaysia refused and immediately gave notice they were repatriating the offender.
    Unless, something changes that settles the matter as far as Key’s public statements are concerned. There appear to be no irregularities.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1
      1 July 2014 at 8:15 pm

      Incumbent government takes credit for BAU.

    • mickysavage 16.2
      1 July 2014 at 8:38 pm

      Unless there was a prior nod nod wink wink and the Malaysians then decided to have their diplomat return home.

      • karol 16.2.1
        1 July 2014 at 8:59 pm

        Yes. Washington Post is reporting that the Malaysian Foreign Minister is saying there was an agreement made between the dates of the 2 letters released under OIA.

        • mickysavage 16.2.1.1
          1 July 2014 at 9:09 pm

          A subsequent nod and wink. It is amazing that two western commonwealth nations are disagreeing with each other about such a matter.

        • srylands 16.2.1.2
          1 July 2014 at 9:30 pm

          Yes well when MH370 went missing the Malaysian authorities were such a model of transparency. Let’s believe everything they say here.

          You are letting your bizarre and irrational distrust of John Key cloud your judgement.

          • karol 16.2.1.2.1
            1 July 2014 at 9:37 pm

            And Team Key is a model of transparency?

            Well, I’ll be interested to see Key’s/MFAT’s response to the claims about the May 12 meeting. No response as yet.

  17. hoom 17
    1 July 2014 at 8:09 pm

    What? John Key initially said A, turned out C was closer to the truth but actually it was Z? Again? Who’dathunkit O.o

  18. Kath 18
    1 July 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Malaysian media now agree that NZ requested that diplomatic immunity be waived. Also that NZ requested that the Malaysian warrant officer be returned. Malaysian media talking of “our shame”. This as much as anything may see his return.

    If he is tried under shariah in Malaysia , she will need 4 male witnesses (God knows why in any circumstance any 4 males would simply watch a rape in progress – misogynistic and gross in the extreme).

    • mickysavage 18.1
      1 July 2014 at 8:39 pm

      Do you have a link Kath?

        • kath 18.1.1.1
          1 July 2014 at 9:39 pm

          Thank you Joe – this is typical of the Malaysian media response.

          • mickysavage 18.1.1.1.1
            1 July 2014 at 9:57 pm

            Um you say Malaysian media but it looks like someone’s blog site. And there is talk of a meeting on May 12 where the business was actually discussed. I don’t think we can put this one to bed yet …

            • joe90 18.1.1.1.1.1
              1 July 2014 at 10:05 pm

              Links inside MS.

              edit: .my search

            • karol 18.1.1.1.1.2
              1 July 2014 at 10:18 pm

              From what’s being said (and not said) on both sides, this is the way it looks to me:

              MFAT asked for diplomatic immunity to be waived. They met with the Malaysian High Commission people, who wanted to uphold diplomatic immunity. There were discussions and some negotiating. The NZ people then suggested a possible alternative – for Ismail to be removed from NZ and tried in Malaysia.

              They had hoped for it to be kept away from the media. Once it hit the MSM, both sides are trying to talk tough to their citizens, and save face.

              • Scott1 …
                2 July 2014 at 7:54 am

                Sounds like a reasonable analysis.

                I was imagining the exact informal statement might have involved diplomatic immunity being ‘offered’ along the lines of

                “You could apply for diplomatic immunity, or you could”

                And the Malaysians taking that as an offer when it was more meant as a impartial analysis of the possible moves and consequences.

                Still, the sort of thing the government might not want to come out.

    • Bastables 18.2
      2 July 2014 at 5:42 am

      I’m sure you can provide a citation when and how saudi style shariah law is applied within a commonwealth state that follows a tradition of British common law. So British that it is fact in a time warp where rape is defined as only vaginal penetration. Other forms of rape falling under molestation or sodomy charges as per the older UK misogynistic interpretations of “rape”.

      Im sure you’ll also discuss how the requirement of four witness was actually a bar to halt charges of adultery leveled against Aeisha as opposed to the later conservative free wheeling interpretation as a valid bar for rape trials.

      Or you’re just a bigoted Islamophobic, because you know scary foreigner mooslims with no references to the actual almost traditional problems of colonial UK misogynistic law allied with Judges being allowed to set minimum penalties.

  19. RedBaronCV 19
    1 July 2014 at 10:10 pm

    My heart goes out to the young lady who has had her life so drastically changed though no action of her own.
    The sight of her now being reabused by the governments of New Zealand and Malaya is appalling.

    The knowledge that community organisations such rape crisis, victim support and ACC counselling have no real funds to help her and others like her is a decision of a Nact government who couldn’t care less.

    • BLiP 19.1
      2 July 2014 at 12:48 am

      ‘

      ^^^This.

    • freedom 19.2
      2 July 2014 at 11:55 am

      Well said RedBaronCV

      highlighted somewhat by McCully’s words

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11285543

      Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully earlier said the Solicitor-General had advised the Government abide by the suppression ruling while it was in place.

      “I can’t see any good public policy reason why you’d want to protect someone from publicity given there won’t be a trial.”

      Surely he meant to add ‘in New Zealand’ to that statement? Or is it yet another disgustingly ignorant example of how the impact of this event upon the victim is never considered by those in power?

      • Tracey 19.2.1
        2 July 2014 at 1:50 pm

        mccully doesnt consider the possibility of someone getting away with trying to rape a woman worthy of keeping an eye on. Didnt think to make a note for himself in his diary to follow up the attempted rape issue.

        ” Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully says he was never told a Malaysian diplomat accused of attempted rape had left the country having invoked diplomatic immunity.

        McCully said he was informed that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) had asked Malaysia to waive diplomatic immunity for Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail shortly after the diplomat was arrested for allegedly attacking a 21-year-old woman in her home.

        “And that was the last I heard about it.“

        • karol 19.2.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 2:48 pm

          I seem to remember around the time of some Rugby World Cup cock-ups in Auckland, people described McCully as very hands on and a bit of a control freak. I searched for references to it and found….. someone called “tracey” commented on Red Alert calling McCully a well known control freak.

          Anyway, someone who is very hands on would surely have known what happened after the request for diplomatic immunity be waived.

          • Tracey 19.2.1.1.1
            2 July 2014 at 3:10 pm

            I have some knowledge of him from a previous portfolio. He was chronically hands on a crown entity so i doubt he would be hands off his ministry, unless he didnt give a shit.

          • Tracey 19.2.1.1.2
            2 July 2014 at 3:20 pm

            from kiwiblog

            Unintentionally hilarious
            April 5th, 2012 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar
            John Armstrong writes in the NZ Herald:

            To the list of credibility-deficient statements like “the cheque is in the mail” and “your table will be ready in a few minutes” you can now add “Murray McCully is not a micro-manager”.

            In the Foreign Minister’s absence – McCully was heading for China yesterday – another minister, Chris Finlayson, drew the short straw in having to answer questions in Parliament on McCully’s behalf as the Opposition continued to press its attack over the botched restructuring of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

            Finlayson had been making a reasonable fist of deflecting that attack until he suddenly made his hard-to-swallow statement about McCully’s management style.

            McCully has been the power behind more thrones than Robespierre and Rasputin combined. The picture painted of McCully as some political innocent oblivious to the goings-on in his ministry had the Opposition benches in stitches of genuine laughter.

            I have to confess I was also laughing out loud to the statement that “Murray McCully is not a micro-manager”.

            I recall this story in the Herald:

            The diplomatic corps has been wildly complimentary about the forum. “Spectacular” one described it yesterday – both in terms of organisation and diplomatic opportunities.

            McCully has been up to his elbows in the detail of organisation, making Helen Clarks’ micro-management style look like neglect. Yesterday he was still at it, arranging for a New Zealand rugby expert to sit next to China’s Vice-Foreign Minister Cui Tiankai at the opening World Cup game to explain the oddities of the game.

            If Murray isn’t a micro-manager, then Grace Quek is a virgin.

            Having said that, it is worth noting that Murray’s fine attention to detail sometimes leads to very good outcomes – the Rugby World Cup organisation being one example, and the Pacific Forum another. However it doesn’t generally win him many nominations in the “Most loved Minister by the civil service” category.

            Share this:
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            • karol 19.2.1.1.2.1
              2 July 2014 at 3:39 pm

              Thanks. So it really doesn’t seem that credible that McCully wouldn’t have asked to be kept informed…. unless, unlike his work in other areas, he just doesn’t give a shit about a woman being the victim of robbery and attempted rape.

              • Tracey …
                2 July 2014 at 4:01 pm

                my thoughts exactly. And this idea that he is sorry and taking responsibility..

                Again, personal responsibility on planet key is only for those on benefits.

                Key and joyce will be seriously considering this as manna from heaven, colin craig-wise

        • freedom 19.2.1.2
          2 July 2014 at 3:08 pm

          His behaviour, even more so than his answers in the House, today exposed a man in turmoil who knows that what is coming from his mouth is a litany of bullshit and shines a spotlight upon his complete lack of concern for the victim.

          Urgent Debate now happening in the House

          • Tracey 19.2.1.2.1
            2 July 2014 at 3:16 pm

            The thing is he released two documents yesterday. When the malaysians challenged his and the liar in chief versions, he seems to have found additional materia… But that “material” has not been released to the public.

            • freedom 19.2.1.2.1.1
              2 July 2014 at 3:28 pm

              notice that at no time has McCully said the simple words;

              ‘When first informed I demanded that I be kept fully informed of the developing situation.’

              • Tracey …
                2 July 2014 at 3:35 pm

                well, it was just attempted rape freedom, nothing to stick in his mind as important

  20. Mike 20
    2 July 2014 at 7:04 am

    Labour seems to have a deathwish. Micky Savage should know being a lawyer that the Government had no choice except to follow the diplomatic immunity regulations. The NZ public as confirmed by the polls are not interested in this conspiracy mode the Labour Party are in. Until you start talking about sensible policies that affect peoples future you are destined to languish as an also ran party.

    • Sanctuary 20.1
      2 July 2014 at 7:18 am

      I am not so sure, it now looks like McCully and his gutted ministry have bungled things. Again. If the allegations that we sent “mixed messages” are true, and McCully sat on his hands until the media got hold of the story, then McCully must resign.

    • mickysavage 20.2
      2 July 2014 at 7:27 am

      Que? Malaysia says that it offered to waive diplomatic immunity but NZ gave them the message that they did not have to. McCully has then created an international incident by selectively releasing part of the file and implying the Malaysian foreign minister was lying. And there are major doubts about the veracity of what Key said. Or do you see it otherwise? Or are you just trying to divert attention?

      • karol 20.2.1
        2 July 2014 at 7:45 am

        And now both sides, after consultation with each other, are saying maybe their statements to each other over what to do about Ismail, were “ambiguous”

      • Matthew Hooton 20.2.2
        2 July 2014 at 7:51 am

        To believe that Key is lying, you have to believe:

        1) The Malaysian government said “hey, we think we’ll waive diplomatic immunity”. (This is deeply, deeply implausible. Why would Malaysia have offered this?)
        2) The NZ government said “no, no, you invoke it, we don’t want to put this guy on trial” (This is even more implausible – why on earth would NZ have turned down an offer to waive immunity?)
        3) John Key knew this but nevertheless took the risk of saying the exact opposite happened
        4) Fake or misleading MFAT documents were released by the government under the OIA even at the risk of the Malaysians retaliating by revealing the true documents proving (1) and (2) above.

        You then have to give some sort of motive for any of this behaviour.

        Do you see that your hatred of Key is putting you in 9/11-denier territory?

        I’d go back to talking more about poverty, education and so forth if I were you.

        • mickysavage 20.2.2.1
          2 July 2014 at 7:56 am

          I am not accusing Key of lying. I am pointing out that what he said may not be correct. I am interested in how a situation has been created where what we were told by the PM looks like it may not be correct.

        • karol 20.2.2.2
          2 July 2014 at 7:59 am

          It sounds more that it went like this:

          MFAT asked for diplomatic immunity to be waived. They met with the Malaysian High Commission people, who wanted to uphold diplomatic immunity, but would have been prepared to waive immunity as their bottom line (may not have stated their bottom line to the MFAT people). There were discussions and some negotiating. The NZ people then suggested a possible alternative – for Ismail to be removed from NZ and tried in Malaysia.

          They had hoped for it to be kept away from the media. Once it hit the MSM, both sides are trying to talk tough to their citizens, and save face.

        • RedBaronCV 20.2.2.3
          2 July 2014 at 7:59 am

          Really Mathew- so the right of someone not to be subjected to rape is irrelevant ? We should talk about something else? Doesn’t the right believe rape exists – they won’t put any funding towards it.

          Ask yourself a better question Mathew. Why has everyone been so secretive about this? Usually when there is diplomatic criminal offending:
          1) The news is onto it straight away
          2) Any country that is not going to waive their diplomatic immunity has the diplomat out of the coutry so fast that you can’t blink.

          Neither of those happened here.

        • Pete 20.2.2.4
          2 July 2014 at 9:51 am

          Key has a habit of talking first and asking questions later. There are things he just doesn’t want to know or can’t be bothered knowing or are politically convenient to not be aware of. Now you could say that delegation is important for any leader, but his tendency to speak with assurance when he doesn’t have the full facts at his disposal is the mark of a bullshit artist.

          In this case it has embarrassed us before the Malaysian government and more importantly has done a great disservice to the victim of Rizalman’s attack.

          • Colonial Viper 20.2.2.4.1
            2 July 2014 at 8:54 pm

            Both the Malaysian and the Singaporean governments understand John Key and his Government very well by this stage, and neither would be in the least bit surprised.

        • Molly 20.2.2.5
          2 July 2014 at 10:42 am

          Key often lies, that is not the issue here.

          The question is – are the stories reported in the Daily Mail true?

          How can they be investigated for truth – ie. direct contact with Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman (or Daily Mail) to confirm the veracity of the statement printed:
          “He said the accused will be sent back to New Zealand “if it is absolutely necessary.” Asked to elaborate, Anifah said he will be extradited if New Zealand requests it or if New Zealand thinks the Malaysian investigation is not being conducted properly.

          He says Malaysia was willing to waive diplomatic immunity but decided to take up New Zealand’s offer to invoke diplomatic immunity and bring him back back home.“

          If he stands by this statement, then ask if he is able to provide any proof of this conversation.

          This is probably the work of a competent investigative journalist.

          If true: Why would our government do this?

          1. Don’t want this international incident during election year – might have impacted on the feel good vibe of the Royal Visit…
          2. If I came from the dark side – Crosby/Textor – my reasoning would be that John Key will look mighty strong if we sent him back despite a compliant Malaysian High Commission to keep him here, and then utilise that compliance to have him extradited or charged. The victim is forgotten, the opportunity for grandstanding is taken.
        • cogito 20.2.2.6
          2 July 2014 at 11:50 am

          @Matthew Hooton

          The issue arises as Key is a habitual liar. In fact it is questionable whether Key even has the ability any more to distinguish between the truth and a lie.

          Hatred towards Key is fully justified, as NZ does not need – nor should it have – a CORRUPT LIAR as PM.

        • dimebag russell 20.2.2.7
          2 July 2014 at 6:07 pm

          @Hooton.
          and slylands.
          the facts are that keys and mcully are a pair of lightweights who thinkeverybody else in the world is a s gutless as they are.
          now deny that!

  21. mike 21
    2 July 2014 at 7:43 am

    There are varying reports which party said what, but my point is do you think this is important to the people Labour purports to represent?

    • karol 21.1
      2 July 2014 at 7:47 am

      the people Labour purports to represent?

      Like women, for instance? Like the woman who survived Ismail’s attempted rape?

    • RedBaronCV 21.2
      2 July 2014 at 7:53 am

      Yes plenty of women vote and after this it won’t be for Nact. The life of this girl matters and she shouldn’t be being reabused by the power of the NZ government. It really underlines the difference between those who want to govern on behalf of the community and those who think only of themselves – it goes to the heart of the Labour Nact difference.
      (Apart from that I really am restraining myself from calling you some choice names)

  22. mike 22
    2 July 2014 at 8:03 am

    Mathew Hooten has it exactly right. Deal with the issues that matter to everyday people. The attempted rape is a Police/diplomatic matter and by turning into another Labour beat up will not help the victim one bit. You are stooping pretty low to use this woman’s frightening experience to score political points. Still by now we should realise this is what the left do now.Michael Savage, David Lange & Norman Kirk would turn in their graves at your antics.

    • mickysavage 22.1
      2 July 2014 at 8:26 am

      Mike have you actually read the post? Are you not concerned that the PM may have fed the public a false impression and that through bungling there is now something of an international incident between NZ and one of its largest markets?

      • Tracey 22.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 9:27 am

        look mickey, what IS it about the left? Its not like john key signed a painting for charity that he didnt paint. This is just a deal to sweep an attempted rape under the carpet that went public. Perspective. Please.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 22.2
      2 July 2014 at 8:32 am

      Hey Mike, your misogyny is showing.

  23. RedBaronCV 23
    2 July 2014 at 8:14 am

    And at the initial district court hearing the lawyer was instructed (by whom?) to ask for legal aid according to Stuff.

    Where the hell was the Malaysian High Commission’s cheque book? “Rizalman’s employer and others were in court” but apparently didn’t want to pay?
    We fund them but not anything for her.

  24. Mike 24
    2 July 2014 at 8:54 am

    Standard left tactics. If your arguments don’t work be personally offensive!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1
      2 July 2014 at 8:57 am

      NB: reference to your misogyny is not a personal attack: it is a criticism of your behaviour. Learn to tell the difference.

      • srylands 24.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 9:09 am

        But you do engage in personal attacks – on me. And this is a hallmark of extremist left activists like you. I see it constantly.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 9:15 am

          Yes, I do, maggot. As do you, on Tracey, on McFlock etc.

          If you opened your other eye you’d see that it isn’t confined to the Left, either. You’d also see a few on both sides who don’t indulge, and you ain’t one of them any more than I am.

          Still, I doubt very much that will stop your dishonest pretence that it is confined to one side, and when it comes down to it, mendacity is far worse than the odd insult.

          • framu 24.1.1.1.1
            2 July 2014 at 10:24 am

            “mendacity is far worse than the odd insult”

            amen – im constantly amazed that people have an outlook on life that actively shits on people yet get all huffy over a word or two

            • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1.1.1
              2 July 2014 at 8:51 pm

              of course that is so, for one must strive to maintain a measure of civility and decorum even as one is engaging in active suppression of the unruly, uncouth and unwashed masses

        • Tracey 24.1.1.2
          2 July 2014 at 9:16 am

          And your personal attacks? Are they the hallmarks of extremeist right activists like you?

        • framu 24.1.1.3
          2 July 2014 at 10:20 am

          ” I see it constantly.”

          might have more to do with how you engage with the world

          people are rude to you because of you – end of story.

          • srylands 24.1.1.3.1
            2 July 2014 at 10:24 am

            No, the only people who I have encountered who are rude are members of a subset of the commentators here.

            • framu 24.1.1.3.1.1
              2 July 2014 at 10:30 am

              look turd face

              when you come round to someone house and constantly make snide comments and insult the hosts decor its not going to be long before the more vocal people present tell you to get the fuck out of the house

              you conduct yourself like an alpha superior uber human – you might not use any sailor words, but your still offensive and rude to many many people

              stop being so precious and pathetic

              • McFlock …
                2 July 2014 at 1:44 pm

                To be fair, at least ssylands has left his sheltered, privileged community – apparently nobody else he has ever encountered in his entire life has been in the slightest bit rude.

                Of course, that’s another of his fucking lies. If he’d never encountered rudeness before, he’d not be able to recognise it. But he knows exactly what people mean when they call him (for example) “a fucking piece of shit”, because he seems to get quite irritated.

                • Tracey …
                  2 July 2014 at 2:09 pm

                  Although yesterday he declared he must be called “sylands” , i shall call him Alice

                  “If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn’t. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn’t be. And what it wouldn’t be, it would. You see?”
                  ― Lewis Carroll, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

            • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.3.1.2
              2 July 2014 at 8:49 pm

              No, the only people who I have encountered who are rude are members of a subset of the commentators here.

              And yet you keep coming back for more and more you pathetic lying shit, despite our best efforts to tell you to fuck off.

    • Tracey 24.2
      2 July 2014 at 9:21 am

      you are not familiar with mr slaters blog then?

    • framu 24.3
      2 July 2014 at 10:18 am

      its like all the years of screaming “feminazi” and the subsequent 5 years of nat govt that constantly runs dirty smears and always engages in negative antics in the house didnt happen

      whatever mike – go cry in your pillow if thats all youve got

  25. Te Reo Putake 25
    2 July 2014 at 8:56 am

    One thing is certain; Murray McCully just ended his time as MP for East Coast Bays.

    • ffloyd 25.1
      2 July 2014 at 9:48 am

      Underarm bowl from teamkey? Sorry Murray, it’s been fun but it’s not working out now. See ya. ……………Gidday Colin, got a proposal for you, sit down, have a cup of tea.

      Watched mccully the other night on telly. Even with the sound turned down his immense discomfort was obvious. Skulduggery much!

      Anything of a sexual abuse nature should not have diplomatic immunity as a matter of course. I hope this girl’s ordeal is not swept under the carpet because of political expediency. It should be about her and what she went through and she should get the Justice that IS HER RIGHT!

    • Tracey 25.2
      2 July 2014 at 10:03 am

      interesting observation TRP

  26. Mike 26
    2 July 2014 at 8:59 am

    Only the left would play politics with an attempted rape. Never mind the victim!

    [You are now trolling. Final warning – MS]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 26.1
      2 July 2014 at 9:05 am

      First you deny that women are “everyday people”, then you feign outrage on behalf of the complainant.

      Of course you aren’t playing politics, no sirree.

      What hypocrisy.

    • Tracey 26.2
      2 July 2014 at 9:18 am

      as opposed to the right who tried to sweep it under the carpet (see evidence of 12 may meeting).

      • framu 26.2.1
        2 July 2014 at 11:00 am

        didnt collins make jokes about prison rape?

        • Tracey 26.2.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 2:12 pm

          she hoped suspected looters “go to jail for a long time – with a cellmate”. Some critics thought the implied approval of prison rape as punishment was inappropriate coming from the Minister of Police and Corrections, particularly when it emerged one of the looters, Arie Smith-Voorkamp, had Asperger’s Syndrome. She refused to apologise, rejecting accusations she had implied anything of the sort.

  27. gobsmacked 27
    2 July 2014 at 11:15 am

    The opposition don’t need to “play politics”, as some put it. They don’t need to do anything except get Key on the record.

    Ask this question in Parliament, today:

    “When did the Prime Minister first learn of the case?”

    And if not answered, repeat until it is. No need to do more than that. The story will continue.

    • Tracey 27.1
      2 July 2014 at 11:33 am

      yes, but what do you mean by “learn”

      Read, get told, understand the implications, formulated a strategy…

      • gobsmacked 27.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 11:36 am

        Sure, Key could try and be evasive if he wants. That’s the point – that’s why the question is asked – not to get an answer (which we already know).

        • gobsmacked 27.1.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 4:03 pm

          And here it is (2.20 pm today, Hansard):

          Hon David Cunliffe : On what date was he, his office, or his officials first advised of the alleged sex crime by a Malaysian diplomat, and what action did he then take?

          Rt Hon JOHN KEY : I was advised soon after the incident took place—so that would have been at some time in the latter part of May—that there was an incident involving someone from the Malaysian High Commission. I was not given details of it or that it was a sexual offence; just that there was an issue with a member there. I was formally advised of all of the details on Saturday.

          Italics added. Shame nobody from the opposition followed up immediately. It beggars belief that the PM or his office were told “there was an issue”, and then asked nothing further. If Key was deliberately kept out of the loop, that’s very serious. If he has lied to Parliament, that’s even more serious.

          • Tracey 27.1.1.1.1
            2 July 2014 at 4:49 pm

            what happened to the “no surprises” policy used to find the letter from cunliffe in 2003?

            The offence was May 09 and the pm says he was wtold both

            “soon after the incident” and” the “latter part of May.”

            Which was it Mr Prime Minister?

  28. Molly 28
    2 July 2014 at 11:54 am

    New article on the Herald: McCully says sorry to Key over diplomat sex case.

    McCully taking the fall by the looks of it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 28.1
      2 July 2014 at 12:15 pm

      Gosh, yes, it wouldn’t do for the Prime Minister to be seen to be making misleading statements. His word is his bond.

      McCully will probably have to go, and there are bound to be those on the Left who will say “What a farce. Why can’t they just admit they need Crazy Colin to form a government instead of going through this feeble charade?”

      • McFlock 28.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 1:49 pm

        Because it’s suddenly occurred to the tories that their credibility is so low they might lose the election 🙂

    • Tracey 28.2
      2 July 2014 at 1:55 pm

      kind of. In a true example of this govts version of personal responsibility he is throwing his staff under the bus.

      And there were further documents but mccully chose to release only two yesterday which suited the version of the pm. Last week cunliffe was attacked for not researching enough before speaking, and yet he is the pm and his number one henchman…

      Asked about this, Mr McCully said: “I wouldn’t use those words. But I can understand having gone and looked at the material why his officials might have told him that.”

      • bad12 28.3.1
        2 July 2014 at 4:04 pm

        Yes, the Malay’s i have met are very nice people and would express abhorrence at the actions of this particular diplomat,(i spent a great hour in Wellington’s Courtney Place a few years back with a group of Malay celebrating a birthday as the crowds of half/fully drunk NZer’s swirled about like schools of fish),

        Let us all not forget the victim in all this sordid mess as McCully appears to attempt to sweep the intricacies of diplomacy back under the carpet from where they have escaped,(obviously believing to have ”got away with it” after the alleged offender had been quietly shuffled off home with the news media effectively gagged by the court),

        There should be a constant and increasingly vocal call for this individual to be returned to this country to face the court over his alleged actions,

        You can bet that under ”NO surprises” it is highly likely McCully was briefed by Police about the identity of the offender soon after His arrest, and, it is also very likely that Slippery the Prime Minister also received a heads up from the Police under the same ”No surprises” policy,

        My opinion is hardening to the belief that this National Government have happily traded away the rights of the victim in this case for ‘smooth’ relations with the host country of the alleged offender,

        The question must also be put to the present Government surrounding payment of monies to the complainant for Her silence…

        • Tracey 28.3.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 4:51 pm

          i doubt they would pay her anything, she is merely collateral damage to them

  29. Clemgeopin 29
    2 July 2014 at 3:53 pm

    A snap debate is going on in the house on this government’s bungling/shady handling of the serious assault issue by the idiot diplomat.

    Mr Shearer who asked for the snap debate took the government to task in his very good fact based impassioned speech.

    I am VERY impressed with the speech by the Green party MP, Jan Logie. After listening to that speech, Murray McCully and Key should hang their heads in shame. It also now appears that the police have informed the victim of this alleged rape attack that she may have to travel to Malaysia to give evidence!

    I think this government and these two, what I consider as dubious bull shitting MPs, deserve to be unceremoniously defeated on Sept 20 for the extremely poor handling of this serious issue.

    • karol 29.1
      2 July 2014 at 4:03 pm

      Yes. excellent speech from Logie.

      She said this;

      If the victims of violence were the central concern of govt, the Minister would have asked his official for information, not just wait to be told… If this victim was the central concern of the Minister he would have instructed his officials to do everything they could do to keep him in New Zealand.

      and she said this.

      A pattern is emerging, where govt says it takes violence against women seriously meanwhile a Minister is sacked for writing in defence of an abuser, a person disciplined for a previous assault is appointmented to a senior govt position and now this case.

      • Tracey 29.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 4:38 pm

        Does anyone think the PM release about how much this govt cares about family violence, today, is a coincidence??

        This 21 year old was not told by mfat OR the police this guy had left or would leave nz, despite having it in writing on 21 May.

  30. bad12 30
    2 July 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Phill Goff in the House now, pointing out that McCully would have ”known” soon after the Police arrest,

    Phill calls the alleged offense a burglary, it is not, a ”burg” is simply an offender breaking in looking to half inch some ‘goods’ when nobody is home,

    What is alleged is in fact a home invasion with aggravating circumstances…

    • karol 30.1
      2 July 2014 at 4:32 pm

      I think Ismail was charged with “robbery” plus attempted rape. Articles said the robbery was part of his preparation to rape.

    • Te Reo Putake 30.2
      2 July 2014 at 4:34 pm

      Burglary is the correct legal term, whatever the intent.

      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM330242.html

      • Tracey 30.2.1
        2 July 2014 at 4:39 pm

        in parliament goff can call it whatever he likes.

        • Te Reo Putake 30.2.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 4:47 pm

          Parliament is where the laws are made, so I guess MP’s prefer to use the correct term. After all, the man was actually charged with burglary, so if Goff was referring to that aspect of his alleged criminal behaviour, why wouldn’t he use an accurate legal description?

          • Tracey 30.2.1.1.1
            2 July 2014 at 4:56 pm

            yea, goff never breaks parliamentary rules… Or breaches any ethical or moral codes. Even the pm refers to the sexual offense. But not goff, he would deny his own mother for the sake of trade

            • Te Reo Putake 30.2.1.1.1.1
              2 July 2014 at 5:11 pm

              What are you on about? Goff referred to the burglary part of the alleged offences as a burglary. That doesn’t mean he ignored the sexual assault charge. Sheesh!

              If I’m wrong, tell me what you heard or saw him say or show me the parliamentary record … nah, just kidding. You’re obviously assuming the worst, based on bad12’s interpretation, so you don’t actually know what Goff said, do you?

              • bad12 …
                2 July 2014 at 5:59 pm

                There is now a specific criminal charge that differentiates between a simple burglary and a home invasion for the purposes of violence,or, where violence does occur,

                my suggestion is intended to highlight this fact and that i think that in this case where the allegation is that the offender followed the victim home, using burglary as the tool to commit a further violent offense the home invasion charge would be more apprpriate than that of simple burglary…

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  2 July 2014 at 6:10 pm

                  I think that provision was dropped a decade ago, bad. However, it’s now regarded as an aggravating factor in the sentencing guidelines. ie the crime is burglary, but the sentencing is based on it being a home invasion.

                  btw, any chance it wasn’t actually Phil Goff you were referring to, but David Shearer? I ask because Shearer introduced the snap debate and spoke at length on it.

                  edit: Goff did speak. This is what he said in his first sentence: “An alleged rape, or attempted rape, and a burglary by somebody who is a diplomatic representative of their country is a rare and extraordinary event in New Zealand.”

                  No prob’s with you raising the question about the use of ‘burglary’, bad. It’s an interesting topic. And no doubt Tracey will be swiftly apologising for jumping to conclusions …

              • Tracey …
                3 July 2014 at 11:57 am

                i apologise. I have watched the speeches and should not have commented til I had. Apologies again.

      • North 30.2.2
        2 July 2014 at 5:39 pm

        Crimes Act 1961 – Burglary – s.231

        231 Burglary

        (1) Every one commits burglary and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years who—

        (a) enters any building or ship, or part of a building or ship, without authority and with intent to commit an imprisonable offence in the building or ship; or

        (b) having entered any building or ship, remains in it without authority and with intent to commit an imprisonable offence in the building or ship.

    • Tom Jackson 30.3
      2 July 2014 at 5:05 pm

      How on earth are we supposed to believe that a foreign diplomat was arrested for attempted rape and that the PM and McCully didn’t know?

      I guess this now tells all foreign diplomats that they can get away with pretty much anything short of murder in NZ and the government won’t notice.

      • srylands 30.3.1
        2 July 2014 at 5:09 pm

        I’m not surprised at all.

        • bad12 30.3.1.1
          2 July 2014 at 5:13 pm

          Swamp amoeba like what you are SSLands have not the intellectual capacity to conceive or express surprise…

          [lprent: That lack of a point is starting to get tedious. Lift your standard. ]

          • Tracey 30.3.1.1.1
            2 July 2014 at 5:33 pm

            sylands is a diplomat! !

          • srylands 30.3.1.1.2
            2 July 2014 at 6:12 pm

            Who is SSlands?

            Just another example of your rudeness. You do yourself no credit behaving like this in life. You are a drug addict, and live embittered in a State House, and yet you have the gall to act superior to me. Get a grip.

            • bad12 30.3.1.1.2.1
              2 July 2014 at 6:30 pm

              i can SSLands recommend a good cheese to accompany your latest whine…

            • lprent 30.3.1.1.2.2
              2 July 2014 at 6:32 pm

              You are a drug addict, and live embittered in a State House…

              Strange criteria you have. I’m a drug addict. I need my daily statins, and I like my wine. I live in a house. Like bad12 there is one important criteria that you have to remember…

              I too can and do vote. Ultimately in a democracy like ours that is really the only useful political criteria.

              Incidentally, you do tend to suck with your rather patronising bullshit.

        • Tom Jackson 30.3.1.2
          2 July 2014 at 5:53 pm

          So you admit that Key and McCully knew that a foreign diplomat invaded a NZ woman’s home and tried to rape her, and that they didn’t bother keeping track of what was a politically incendiary issue?

          If I was the PM, I would have sent one of my people to MFAT to keep me aware of absolutely everything that went down in this case. A representative of a foreign government tried to rape a NZer, and it is the government’s job to make sure that her right to justice was protected to the full extent possible.

          McCully should resign. He doesn’t seem to care about crime unless the public finds out about it.

          • srylands 30.3.1.2.1
            2 July 2014 at 6:13 pm

            “If I was the PM, I would have sent one of my people to MFAT ”

            What people? You think the Prime Minister has “people” to send to MFAT? If you are using the threshold implied by this incident the PM would need about 5,000 “people” to dispatch all over Wellington each day to keep an eye on developments. You have clearly never worked in Government.

            • Tom Jackson 30.3.1.2.1.1
              2 July 2014 at 6:17 pm

              Are you telling me that Key doesn’t have staff available to monitor politically important issues? Would it be so hard to have someone check up every day, or attend meetings at MFAT when necessary?

              You’re talking BS. I can’t think of any recent issue that is as sensitive or important as this one. What would the Malaysian dude have to have done to reach your threshold? Killed her?

            • felix 30.3.1.2.1.2
              2 July 2014 at 6:27 pm

              “If you are using the threshold implied by this incident…”

              An international incidents involving attempted rape by a diplomat? Uh huh.

              “You have clearly never worked in Government.”

              You’re letting on way too much about yourself, miserylands.

              • Te Reo Putake …
                2 July 2014 at 6:37 pm

                It’s a shame Key didn’t have a compliant arselicker conveniently at hand to keep an eye on the goings on at MFaT. Maybe somebody who parks his car only ten minutes away from the MFaT office? On the Terrace, maybe? Does anyone know such a person?

                • felix …
                  2 July 2014 at 6:53 pm

                  I do know of one, but unfortunately he has 5000 matters to attend to that are far more serious than attempted rape of a NZ citizen by a diplomat.

              • Tracey …
                3 July 2014 at 1:14 pm

                perhaps he used to be a mid grade official in the protocol division of a ministry cos he has some peculiar views about rudeness. Perhaps this has brought back bad memories of why he is now a carpark attendant?

                http://m.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10796531

            • gobsmacked 30.3.1.2.1.3
              2 July 2014 at 6:36 pm

              OK, srylands, or anybody else, let’s role-play:

              An unspecified date in May:

              Official: “Prime Minister, a diplomat from Malaysia has been arrested, for a serious crime.”

              What do you say?

              • Tom Jackson …
                2 July 2014 at 6:40 pm

                PM: “What sort of crime”

                O. “Attempted rape”.

                PM: “Jesus f*cking Christ, this is so bad on so many levels. We can’t afford to let it be seen that NZ hasn’t done all it can to bring this creep to justice, and the Malaysians will be very embarrassed. We have to tow a fine line here.”

                O: “Yes, Prime Minister, I agree. What should we do”.

                PM: “Nothing. Let’s just ignore it. The public will never find out. I’m too busy making shit up about David Cunliffe. Anyway, the only people who care about rape are Green voters. We’ll just say that this bloke thought it was a bit of fun, and accuse anyone who disagrees of being a humourless lesbian”.

              • Ben Adam …
                2 July 2014 at 8:10 pm

                “Oh, shit! With election so close, can you keep it very low Key and under the public radar?”

              • Tracey …
                3 July 2014 at 1:07 pm

                sylands: will it affect the markets?

  31. DirtydeedsNZ 31
    2 July 2014 at 4:18 pm

    As per media comments Key and McCully allegedly knew nothing. Now the Chief Exec of MFAT is saying he knew nothing.

    Seems like a load of bull.

    In fact there’s one more party who has yet to deny knowing nutzing – Anne Tolley.

    Given the arrest and charging of a foreign diplomatic staff member would be a significant event and incident – along with then placing a “warrant to arrest” and asking for extradition, the Police surely would have briefed Tolley under the “no surprises” policy also.

    This requires the OAG to investigate what has happened, who, what, when and how. It’s far too easy for Key et al. to blame it on officials who cannot comment publicly.

    • Tom Jackson 31.1
      2 July 2014 at 5:39 pm

      It’s such a sensitive issue you would think that the government would be keeping constant tabs on the situation.

      • dv 31.1.1
        2 July 2014 at 5:48 pm

        Nope too busy chasing Cuniliffe over a an 11 year old form letter.
        I

        I am sure I read on either stuff or the herald they were briefed about month ago.

    • bad12 31.2
      2 July 2014 at 5:50 pm

      National Ministers have constantly adopted the ”Sergeant Shultz” position at every opportunity during Slippery’s reign as Prime Minister,

      The politics of such an ”attitude” are to delay the full ramifications of the various Ministers actions forced into the light of day only by Opposition Official Information Requests which take time and rely upon the formation of the question(s) asked as to what they reveal,

      The ”thinking” behind this political ploy is that lead by the media ”the public” will soon tire of the issue,

      The demand from the Government should be for the return of this alleged offender to face the charges in our court or the whole High Commission should be told to pack up and go home,

      The situation as it stands is demeaning of the alleged victims right to see justice done, and, just as demeaning to the Malay people to have its Government essentially provide a soft option for its official accused of these crimes…

      • Tom Jackson 31.2.1
        2 July 2014 at 5:58 pm

        National ignores politically inconvenient rapes.

        NZ rape victims better hope that their rape is important enough for the government to care about.

  32. Tracey 32
    2 July 2014 at 5:30 pm

    it’s not like mccully isnt a serial mfat bungler…

    http://thestandard.org.nz/tag/murray-mccully/

  33. Weepu's beard 33
    2 July 2014 at 5:43 pm

    They (John Allen, Murray McCully, and John Key) have managed to single out the unnamed “mid-level” staff member whose fault the entire thing is and chucked him/her under the bus.

    This must be the transparency and personal responsibility the National party and their groupies keep talking about.

    Sad times for the public service. Who would want to do it?

  34. dimebag russell 34
    2 July 2014 at 6:04 pm

    it is obvious now that John Keys and Murry Mcully are a pair of grovelling snivellers afraid of their own shadows.

  35. DirtydeedsNZ 35
    2 July 2014 at 6:13 pm

    I wonder how John Armstrong will go about defending this and #TEAMlacKEY?

    What’s the bet criticism of Labours education policy gets more mention than anything else in his vomit column.

    • Tom Jackson 35.1
      2 July 2014 at 6:36 pm

      He’ll find a picture of a Labour member at a Malaysian diplomatic function and claim that Cunliffe knew the rapist and did nothing to stop him.

  36. dimebag russell 36
    2 July 2014 at 6:48 pm

    armstrong has senile dementia.
    someone else writes his column fro him!

  37. fisiani 37
    2 July 2014 at 9:56 pm

    Malaysia is sending him back to NZ to stand trial. Congratulations John Key

    • Clemgeopin 37.1
      2 July 2014 at 10:08 pm

      While that is good, don’t be in a hurry to pass your kudos to Key. Control your cult worship.
      Many questions regarding McCully and MFAT need to be yet answered. Why would the Malaysian authority be so foolish as to ask the diplomat to be sent away to Malaysia and now sent back? I think there is still more to this disgraceful episode than yet revealed.

    • gobsmacked 37.2
      2 July 2014 at 10:32 pm

      Why “congratulations” to Key? Are you saying the Foreign Minister has misled Parliament and the public again?

      This is Murray McCully, speaking in the House today:

      “Matters relating to prosecutions are for the police. The issues around the waiver of diplomatic immunity are for protocol officials to transact. I think the day when we see Ministers getting involved in the prosecution process or the immunity waiver process will put us on a very slippery slope. … The matter of extradition is not one for the Foreign Minister or any other Minister.”

      (source: Hansard)

      So, were Ministers involved or not? Who is telling fibs, Fisiani or McCully?

      Get your story right, or the hole just gets deeper.

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